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Starfury Shang
Pod Radio
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Posted - 2007.01.05 18:29:00 -
[241]
A way to reduce the ISK stockpile is to bring in new tax's with the next Kali release. The more money/assets an alliance has the more tax it pays. Or it could be based on the amount of soveriegnty an alliance has, (number of systems controlled / number of POS's deployed / number of outposts owned or deployed). I haven't fully worked through the pro's/con's and workability of it. I am very tired with looking after a newborn so don't flame me if you think its a bad idea.
Just a thought.
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DarkMatter
Amarr
Mineral Aquisition Group
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Posted - 2007.01.05 18:33:00 -
[242]
 Originally by: Starfury Shang
A way to reduce the ISK stockpile is to bring in new tax's with the next Kali release. The more money/assets an alliance has the more tax it pays. Or it could be based on the amount of soveriegnty an alliance has, (number of systems controlled / number of POS's deployed / number of outposts owned or deployed). I haven't fully worked through the pro's/con's and workability of it. I am very tired with looking after a newborn so don't flame me if you think its a bad idea.
Just a thought.
I think that will be part of the NPC security system, gate guns, NPC patrols for your alliance, etc...
Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox
Building the homestead |
Alotta Fagina
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:03:00 -
[243]
Originally by: DarkMatter
So if BoB doesn't have the greatest number of DEV alts in it, which alliance does?
BoB... no secret there, never have been a secret never will be a secret.
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TheFirstInquisitor
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Posted - 2007.01.05 19:13:00 -
[244]
I read pages one and 9...
I laughed a bit to be honest, and lets think of it like this.
Bob works hard, plays hard, earns good capital and is wise in its reinvestment, ergo T2 market. If you lot of nubbin whiners dont like BoB, then go band together to make your own alliance/corp to take the fight to BoB.
If you lose (likely) it is because noone wants to join you, has better things to do or arent smart enough to think long term and out-manouver BoB.
No,I am not an alt, just a chap finding the whole BoB/rest of EvE releationship highly amusing.
Note to all, What I say may be infact of a more humorous tone than comes accross. |
The Fates
Perkone
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Posted - 2007.01.06 04:25:00 -
[245]
I'm quite sure some of the funny things you read and some of the misinformation is also quite intentional.
Let's not forget that the control of public opinion and the disemination of (mis)information is part of a war effort.
Quoting Helen:
""
I will say again BOB used in game rule bending and more importantly out of game tactics such as personal attacks and disruption of ascn's TS (playing music etc) and faking killmails, and alot of other stuff that I had no personal experiance of. This is what they set out to do and they called it Total War.
What is sad is I don't see this being stopped just like the isk farmers in Eve. I am not flaming Bob just stating a fact, if it was not BOB it would have been someother allience doing this.
Its Eves loss and CCP's failer and will kill eve off if nothing is done to control this style of gameplay.
The Dev's should take a good long hard look at this issue and GM's should Not try to solve this problem by pushing one or another allience against Bob. GMs should judge not interact in eve's gameplay!!
""
First of all reliance upon TS for communication is a bad thing. I'm not saying that TS is not a useful tool, but if you can't function without it, or you are seriously disrupted by its misuse then you have a serious problem who's remedy is not whining. Disinformation such as faking killmails and other tactics that you refer to as out of game are quite common and something that you will need to be prepared to deal with in the future. It will happen again, and not just from BoB or EvE. It only takes something important on the line for everything to become fair game in a total war scenario.
Isk Farming has been dealt a serious blow, mineral prices, stocks, and the current attitude of manufacturers is a good indication. Demand has gone up a little, but supply has gone down by a lot more. I don't really think you came to complain about macro miners, tho, did you?
Perhaps you are one that thinks GM's should never get involved, but they will. You can beg, you can plead, you can ask for the world to be the way you wish for it to be... but that will never work.
You must make changes to the way you operate to stand a chance, and if you read between the lines here it has already been said more than once, perhaps not as clearly as I'm stating it...
The time for peace... has come to an end.
Revelations 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Originally by: Napoleon Bonaparte
Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and myself founded empires; but upon what did we rest the creations of our genius? Upon force.
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CrestoftheStars
Deviance Inc
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.06 04:52:00 -
[246]
an excelent solution to the t2 bpo which have been so much trouble.
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CrestoftheStars
Deviance Inc
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.06 05:00:00 -
[247]
emm... come on tell me... how do you outmanouver a market that is limited to those who is already there?!
i would really like to see you come up with an idear to outmanouver lets say t2 production..... what will you do?! use invantion... lol... or t1 market :P heh
Originally by: TheFirstInquisitor
I read pages one and 9...
I laughed a bit to be honest, and lets think of it like this.
Bob works hard, plays hard, earns good capital and is wise in its reinvestment, ergo T2 market. If you lot of nubbin whiners dont like BoB, then go band together to make your own alliance/corp to take the fight to BoB.
If you lose (likely) it is because noone wants to join you, has better things to do or arent smart enough to think long term and out-manouver BoB.
No,I am not an alt, just a chap finding the whole BoB/rest of EvE releationship highly amusing.
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sdthujfg
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Posted - 2007.01.06 05:06:00 -
[248]
Originally by: Bawldeux IV
Originally by: Pehova Mindtriq
Guys, if we all help we can make this thread a big deal. 
CCP like BoB
CCP = BoB (according to some)
So really, do you expect to see CCP do anything to ruin BoB fun??
Prolly true. This would explain why bloods drop a certain salvage item that is rare and is insta sold for energy rigs in jita for 1 mill a piece. Drops are all in BOB territory. Gotta love that...
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Emolayshun
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Posted - 2007.01.06 05:56:00 -
[249]
BoB represents only a tiny fraction of total EvE players and even a small fraction of 0.0 pilots. At the end of the day, they would have to assimilate large numbers of other corps and alliances to have the numbers to attempt something like controling all of 0.0 - at that point, they would cease to be the BoB we know because their average member quality would probably drop, not to mention the sheer logistics of it. A much more likely scenario would see them controlling a significant portion of 0.0 (maybe double what they do now) with the rest of 0.0 controlled by vassel alliances in a big NAP orgy.
Besides, if BoB did control all of 0.0, the sheer boredom of it would probably cause BoB to purposefully break up their alliance to get some fighting back in 0.0
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Akia Mae
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Posted - 2007.01.07 01:41:00 -
[250]
Edited by: Akia Mae on 07/01/2007 01:41:44
Edited by: Akia Mae on 07/01/2007 01:38:39
(Sorry, didnt mean to post on an alt)
If you are a powerfull alliance and you eventually "own" lets say 10 regions. You dont have to defend them all 24/7. Pirates are not your concern. All you have to do is simply:
1) keep any wannabe-alliance from growing roots in "your" area
2) keep alliances outside your realm unstable (in fear) and fighting among themselves
That way you own the space simply because you make sure nobody else does and you extract money by leasing limited mining/hunting rights to individual carebear corps (always making sure they dont grow roots and organize).
To really control large parts of space you need to build a real empire, a system of vassalage where you put minor corps/alliances in charge of regions and have them defend them in case of minor invasions with backup from the major fleets in case of large scale warfare. This system of vassalage however will corrupt the empire over time (vassals want more power...), vassals organize against you and youre drowned in civil or guerilla war for a long time --> thats the roman empire story.
I think BOB are clever enough to know this and thus they rather, defend one region to mine/harvest/hunt in peace and let the rest of their space lie idle.
The discouraging factor in all this is: Once you are on the edge of becoming a strong alliance BoB comes round to own you, you loose large parts of your ressources and morale takes a vacation with them.
At the moment, BoB cannot be defeated from the outside (assuming they are as good in economics/politics as they are in warfare). To aim at breaking their unity from the inside would probably be way to go. I assume they also know this and maintain strict recruitment/promotion policies therefore and care a lot about their member's morale.
The war is only won once you have broken your enemy's morale entirely.
As long as they maintain their goal and spirit through all ranks, they are a tough nut to *****. Especially since they seem to know a lot about common mistakes in organizations and have no obvious leaks.
People who want to fight BoB still need to attack their weak spots (every entity has at least one) and not their stong ones. Yet remember: if you fail to exploit a weak spot, you just made your opponent stronger. As mentioned before, other alliances possibly lack imagination and are therefore unable to find weaknesses.
And most of all, in order to destroy BoB: Ones desire & dedication to destroy BoB has to be bigger than BoB's desire & dedication to survive.
Ask yourself: what fuels BoB's motivation. Can you cut the supply?
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Feerax
FATAL REVELATIONS
FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.07 03:39:00 -
[251]
Originally by: Reshei
The BoB Victory over ASCN (....)
It was a war, did you not expect someone to win?
If ASCN had won would you be posting about how they are going to take over eve and make every region just like empire?
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Wesley Harding
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Posted - 2007.01.07 04:01:00 -
[252]
I think Eve's a moral game more then anything. Economic destruction is impossible.
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Fuujin
Hadean Drive Yards
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Posted - 2007.01.07 04:13:00 -
[253]
Wow we have some "interesting" people on the forums....and i don't mean that in a positive way.
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Alice Voerman
Teutates Raiders
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.01.07 05:18:00 -
[254]
BoB didn't reach their current position out of sheer luck. They fought for it and, so far, they win, because so far, nobody else is good enough. Just like every other winning alliance before them. Then one day, somebody else finds a way and becomes the new BoB.
All these winning alliances push the game forward and force people to evolve into better, stronger structures. They are the reason why we mine, trade, fight and level up: we want to get better at what we do, until one day there is nobody left to be beaten except ourselves. Then everybody else hates us. Rince, repeat.
As opposed to every other MMORPG out there, the big hostile force isn't a computer IA you're not supposed to kill. Powers can be interacted with, and they can lose. So sit back, and learn to enjoy the fact.
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To make an omelette, you gotta kill people. |
Jenessa
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.01.07 06:07:00 -
[255]
I for one can't see the day that BOB wins eve. It's a simple numbers game and there just simply aren't enough of them to do it. They will never own all the space in the game. But having said that at the moment I don't think there is a single entity that could fight and win against them, the closest I would say right now who could give them a run for their money would be D2. Though there are some up and coming alliances out there who in future I have no doubt may be in a position to hurt them.
My own personal hunch is that BOB will fall one day. Most likely it will happen from within, it may be preceeded by some BOB defeat that might start the internal rot, or some key members may become bored with the lack of any decent challenge, or it just could be that they wont be able to get a decent fight anywhere and they may start haemorraging members who leave to get their PvP "fix" elsewhere.
I think of Band of Brothers and I'm continually reminded of a quote from the character Dorian Grey in the film The League of Extrordinary Gentlemen where he says "All empires fall....there are no exceptions"
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Arain
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Posted - 2007.01.07 08:30:00 -
[256]
BoB will not kill EVE. What could kill EVE is competition. If and I admit its a big if, another company comes out with a primarily PvE space game that equals EVE in game play and graphics, the same thing that happened to UO could happen to EVE. A large portion of thier PvE subscribers could leave for the new game. EQ damaged the UO player base alot. It could happen here too. The PvP is > then PvE bias that is central to the Devs view of the future of the game does not apeal to everyone. They stay here because basicly its the only nonfantasy game in town. If that were to happen the PvP crowd would lose a a signifigant portion of thier suppliers, and those who just like to gank people would lose the easy prey they seem to love. So one wonders how long they would stay around. What would be left are the die hard people who really enjoy pitting thier wits against a real live opponent.
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Seraphll
Gallente
The Clearwater Society
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.01.07 08:41:00 -
[257]
N00b, there is no way BoB could take over EVE. A simple 2 alliance war dec would be sufficient to take BoB (assuming they are as dedicated as BoB) But seriously, if BoB is that dedicated, why shouldn't they have everything they can get their hands on. You've always got to work for something. Also, I thought that was the point of all alliances... TAKING OVER EVE!!!!!
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GoGo Yubari
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.01.07 10:38:00 -
[258]
Originally by: Sergio Ling
BoB introduces Elves to Eve
Dude, we already have the Intaki.
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Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2007.01.07 10:41:00 -
[259]
Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 07/01/2007 10:38:11
Originally by: GoGo Yubari
Originally by: Sergio Ling
BoB introduces Elves to Eve
Dude, we already have the Intaki.
/Me goes home to look in the mirror
EvE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH SUPPORTER |
DemoIition
Shadows of the Dead
Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.07 11:58:00 -
[260]
Hmmm,, good luck with the whole win eve thing, but i hear them Concorde fellas are some tough hombre's
Hey does that mean the severe security status requirements concorde introduced will be relaxed? 
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darth solo
Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.01.07 12:24:00 -
[261]
i just think the rest of us cant be arsed.
to do what BOB has done must be alot of work. the majority of eve players are pretty casual and play for a laugh.
It just seems to me that BOB work too hard, like its long since been fun and is now a job to them. so they prob deserve all they have. i even heard they done a pos take down op on christmas day.. scary stuff.
im sure they have 300 pos structures alone.. i mean ouch.
d solo.
celes apoc kill board |
The Yzzerman
Caldari
Mortis Angelus
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Posted - 2007.01.07 12:27:00 -
[262]
This is some funny **** I guess I will have too stop play Eve now then
Tbh like some other guy said just look at the world history (RL) empire grooves ,rules and then diseper.
Thats how it works.
Btw who is this Bob anyway My neighbour is called Bob can it be him
I will go and talk to him and tell himto stop ruin the game for you
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.08 18:01:00 -
[263]
Originally by: darth solo
i just think the rest of us cant be arsed.
to do what BOB has done must be alot of work. the majority of eve players are pretty casual and play for a laugh.
It just seems to me that BOB work too hard, like its long since been fun and is now a job to them. so they prob deserve all they have. i even heard they done a pos take down op on christmas day.. scary stuff.
im sure they have 300 pos structures alone.. i mean ouch.
d solo.
That's a pretty sad, even desperate, generalisation darth, shame on you.
I play for fun.
I wasn't on at Christmas because I was playing with my kid's new toys .. er, showing them how they work, yeah, that's it...
Some people from BoB were on, but amazing as it would seem, they were not the only people playing Eve that day.
Keep in mind that not everyone even celebrates Christmas.
Just because you (and I have to confess, me too) don't think looking after a POS would be fun, some people do. They love it.
Are you saying your gameplay is more valid than theirs?
POS are part of the game mate, and have been for a long time.
You can keep playing Eve 2003 if that makes you happy, and I can see the attraction, but the game has moved on.
Get with the times. You can pretend Eve hasn't changed, but the only person you are fooling is yourself.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
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Marcus TheMartin
Gallente
Tuxedo.
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Posted - 2007.01.08 18:29:00 -
[264]
worst thread ever
Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -Marcus TheMartin
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Fuglife
TOUAREGS
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Posted - 2007.01.08 18:36:00 -
[265]
Enough of the whinning about bob being too good, its been said before it will be said again, they have the same ships that you do, they have the same skillpoints that you do, when bob formed there were some MASSIVE alliances already kicking about, and look what they have built for themselves. Quit your whinning, the only difference between bob and anyone else is they have the will to do something. Whinning because you are incompitent to beat them is lame, changing the game because of them is lamer.
If you want to see Bob dead, do something about it ingame.
_____
Hail Moderator!
This be me main character! |
Redbad
Minmatar
Gingerbread Reapers Inc.
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Posted - 2007.01.08 18:49:00 -
[266]
Originally by: Fuglife
Enough of the whinning about bob being too good, its been said before it will be said again, they have the same ships that you do, they have the same skillpoints that you do, when bob formed there were some MASSIVE alliances already kicking about, and look what they have built for themselves. Quit your whinning, the only difference between bob and anyone else is they have the will to do something. Whinning because you are incompitent to beat them is lame, changing the game because of them is lamer.
If you want to see Bob dead, do something about it ingame.
And that nicely sums up and draws a good conclusion to this thread. No need to backread guys, this thread has ended.
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Yumiko Takagawa
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Posted - 2007.01.08 21:17:00 -
[267]
The political game in Eve seems to be over. I don't know what motivates ppl building outposts and such, as it's clear that BoB can come and claim it when they'll decide to do so. Then they'll fill the area with paying clients, and that's it - another region contributes to already immense BoB wealth and power. Probably they deserve what they achieved, but it's quite sad, that this game is slowly sinking under the influence of those who take it as something much bigger and more important than a video game. It looks that for some it's the life project or some kind of personal holy crusade.
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Ab Initio
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.08 22:50:00 -
[268]
Edited by: Ab Initio on 08/01/2007 22:49:43
Originally by: Yumiko Takagawa
Probably they deserve what they achieved, but it's quite sad, that this game is slowly sinking under the influence of those who take it as something much bigger and more important than a video game. It looks that for some it's the life project or some kind of personal holy crusade.
We really don't.
People justify their own failures in this game by convincing themselves that:
* The enemy has no life.
* The enemy lives in their parents basement.
* The enemy takes the game too seriously.
* The enemy treats the game like a full time job.
It's rubbish, but it helps people sleep at night.
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Blacklight
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.01.08 23:09:00 -
[269]
Originally by: Yumiko Takagawa
The political game in Eve seems to be over. I don't know what motivates ppl building outposts and such, as it's clear that BoB can come and claim it when they'll decide to do so. Then they'll fill the area with paying clients, and that's it - another region contributes to already immense BoB wealth and power. Probably they deserve what they achieved, but it's quite sad, that this game is slowly sinking under the influence of those who take it as something much bigger and more important than a video game. It looks that for some it's the life project or some kind of personal holy crusade.
I can't resist replying to this post. What on earth makes you think that BoB considers Eve to be anything other than a game?
It's fully understood within the alliance that Eve is just a game and we certainly do not treat it as some sort of 'life project' or 'holy crusade'. Just like most of the community we play to have fun. Just because fun for BoB means setting ourselves goals and playing hard to achieve them does not mean that our lives are consumed by a game we enjoy playing.
I could go into the demographics of the alliance, how old we all are, what percentage of us have jobs or are studying, how many of us own our own homes etc. but we've covered that elsewhere on these forums when we did an internal survey just for fun and we most certainly do not have anything to justify on those fronts.
So instead let's look at the game itself, some of the behaviours it creates and therefore it's attraction to people who like to play games as a hobby.
Eve facilitates immersion, involvement and emotion better than most games in the market because of the way it has been designed. From the fundamental design philosophy of adopting the 'sandbox' as opposed to 'themepark' approach, to the death penalty, to in game support for social structures Eve is geared towards providing a deeply involving social gaming experience. That kind of gaming environment then lends itself to goal setting behaviours and within Eve the achievement of one set of player's goals often means that another set of player's goals will not be met.
Just because one group of players is having more success at achieving it's goals at the moment does not mean that the game is broken, far from it. In fact you could argue strongly that the rise of powers within the game such as BoB is evidence of the fact that the game design philosophy is supremely successful.
Alliances, corporations and organisations come and go within Eve. No-one knows how long BoB's period of dominance will last but whilst it does it is living proof of the game's 'sandbox' design philosophy in that it is possible, within the context of the game, to achieve your dreams. What a fantastic testament to CCP that they have created a game which facilitates the achievement of player set goals on a grand scale. People play games for escapism, for fun, for an endorphin rush similar to sport... Eve is one of the greatest examples of a successful gaming model that can give it's players a very intense and satisfying gaming experience and that is surely something that we all want.
All your tinpot whinery conspiracy theories are generally based on several other human emotions and behaviours, not least of which can be easily expressed as "I want what he's got".
Blog
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Karlemgne
The Black Fleet
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Posted - 2007.01.09 01:01:00 -
[270]
That's a pretty sad, even desperate, generalisation darth, shame on you.
I play for fun.
No offense meant, Avon, but it is hard for us non-alliance types to see what you do as fun. Again, refering back to that Titan kill fraps, all the ordering about and cussing at the rank and file on vent... honestly, I'd never pay for the privilige of being bossed around WORSE than I already am at my real life job.
But, hey, who am I? To each his own. I guess it might be different if I were the one verbaling abusing underlings.
Hehe...
-Karl
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