EVE Search - The BoB victroy over ASCN and why they might be able to kill Eve.

Check My IP Information

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

The BoB victroy over ASCN and why they might be able to kill Eve.

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 .. 13 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Reshei	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:23:00 - [1] The BoB Victory over ASCN is yet another indication of just how poerful that alliance is. When we think about the reasons for their victory the situation with the game and its future become potentially bleak and unappealing. The main factor in BoB overcomming so many people, not just ASCN, is the fact that they have such a huge amount of money that it is frankly incomprehensible. Trillions of ISK are controlled by that alliance through their BPOs of tech 2 gear. Therefore, it is inevitable that they will overcome anyone that comes up against them. There is just no way that anyone else in the game can compete with that kind of raw financial might. It is raw financial might that won World War II and every other war that was ever fought. Patton was once quoted as saying "tactics win battles but LOGISTICS win wars". So are we looking at the takeover of the whole Eve world by one organization? The problem with this is that there is no way for anyone to compete with BoB. No matter how hard someone works, it is impossible for them to get the kind of raw resources that BoB has and CONTINUES to compile. The main reason for this is the fact that BoB ownes so many tech 2 blueprints and makes so much money off of them that "winning the lottery" hardly covers it. The reality of the situation is that this aspect alone means that no one else can compete. Lets face it. Invention is an utter flop. The promise of invention was that people that worked hard would be able to use invention and enter tech 2 production, thus driving down the price of tech 2 and the MONSTEROUS proffits the tech 2 BPO owners get. The reality is that the parts to do invention are so rare, difficult to get and once the last piece is actually seeded in the game in the complexes they will be camped 24/7 and likely by people like BoB. Something radical needs to shift in the economy of eve or the alliance wars, the conflict, the politics of the game are going to vanish behind a fleet of 200 BOB carriers and Dreadnoughts and Titans. Tech 2 blueprints have been the IDOCY of CCP. A policy that was il-concieved from the start and il-implemented. It is the most embarassing thing about Eve and the biggest threat to its survival. The implementation of invention is a PATHETIC attempt at resolving the problem. I sugest CCP do the following: 1) Seed the Tech 2 BPOs on the market 2) Control the prices by controlling the rarity of the moon mined minerals and other parts that are needed to create the items. 3) Put a little raw and advanced materials in all T2 gear to create compeditive market that no one can control as anyone even in high sec could moon mine the mins. 4) Switch invention to find out the faction versions of ships and modules in order to compensate for not getting tech 2 BPCs. If CCP doesnt get a handle on this sometime soon, Eve will eventually be Empire Space and BoB Space. People will be frustrated they cant get anywhere or build anthing. Alliances will disolve because they dont have the ABILITY to get the Trillions of ISK to compete and the game will lose its flavor of competition and thse competing. Without massive and RAPID changes to the game, the chances of anyone small being able to do anything will be near 0. And when BoB has taken all of 0.0 we can expect millions of war decs so they can take the rest of eve. Why am I posting on an alt? Simple. I dont want to incur the wrath of BoB either. One doesn't poke a stick in the foot of a giant that can crush you like an ant.
Xori Ruscuv Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:26:00 - [2] Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 02/01/2007 22:28:45 OH GOD BOB WON THE WAR SO THEY R TAKIN OVER EVE!!!!1111 Seriously, the T2 lottery SUCKS donkey parts - but it isn't why BOB won the war. Yes, BOB has a lot of money. However, they had fewer people to make that money with. Do you know what that tells us? It tells us that BOB was simply more unified/dedicated to their cause, skilled in their attacks, and had better tactics and logistics. That aside, there are other alliances that have their share of T2 BPOs. It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it? This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap...
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:29:00 - [3] Ever heard what happened to the Roman Empire? --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune \| Eve Pirate
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:29:00 - [4] Idiot go back to the soap opera forums also nerf alt posts Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -Marcus TheMartin
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:31:00 - [5] Certainly was bound to happen, the problem with eve is the double edge sword of only 1 unsharded server. I think most pvp centric games end up with dominant guilds that can ruin the game for people on the server. In most games people will just leave the server to play on another and the uber guild will basically implode the server. With eve there is only 1 server though heh. Might be premature to suggest BOB can implode the server, but certainly time to discuss it. It is human nature for people to want to win and thus people will continue to flock to bob for the EZ mode win.
Sergio Ling Standard Operations Building Services Maelstrom Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:31:00 - [6] BoB Win War ERGO BoB Win Eve ERGO BoB Buy 51% of shares in CCP ERGO BoB introduces Elves to Eve ERGO Everyone rolls shaman _
Cmdr Sy Appetite 4 Destruction	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:32:00 - [7] I have somehow managed to lead a full and varied life without encountering BoB for a year and a half. I don't expect that to change. There are a lot of other players out there. Meh.
Xori Ruscuv Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:34:00 - [8] Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 02/01/2007 22:36:20 BOB winning the war isn't ruining Eve FFS! They took some space. That's what they're supposed to do in this game. This is a bloody EMPIRE BUILDING GAME! BOB will never be able to take over ALL 0.0 space. Why? - Invite only recruitment practices: They make sure every single invited member fits their standards of quality. People of such quality aren't in infinite supply, thus their troop growth MUST slow to a stop at some point. - A lot of people hate BOB: Right or wrong, agree with BOB or their opposition, one thing is undeniable... that is, a lot of people hate BOB. This means that BOB's forces WILL reach as maximum, and they MUST stop growing at some point. - Given that BOB's troop growth must slow to a stop at some point, there is a maximum quantity of space that they can safely claim and hold. Pretty simple, really. It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it? This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap...
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Worms Corp	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:35:00 - [9] they can never take over 0.0 its 100% impossible. here is why once you hit a point that nobody fights you, your pvp corps become hungry for combat and start to war dec eachother and cause the once powerfull alliance to eat itself from the inside.
Verus Potestas Caldari The I-Win Button	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:37:00 - [10] Originally by: Reshei Tech 2 blueprints have been the IDOCY of CCP. Some people just ask for it. --- In third-party forums we trust Did i ask for anyone to copy this into their sig? No, ****heads, its my text, not yours.

Bawldeux IV Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:38:00 - [11] empire or BoB slave....i choose the cancel button instead.
Darius Shakor Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:39:00 - [12] Edited by: Darius Shakor on 02/01/2007 22:39:54 Originally by: Jim McGregor Ever heard what happened to the Roman Empire? I agree with this sentiment. We had a little chat about this once within our alliance. BOB has stated seriously that they want to own every system in EVE. And ok they could do this in theory. They have the skill, organisation and a core of dedicated tactical experts and leaders to c.rack (stupid word filter) the whip and steer the alliance towards goals. However... the world is a little different from theory. Let us assume for one moment that BOB would own every system in eve... every one... boooooring. Every BOB member will eventually get fed up of a lack of fights as that is, afterall, what we all play the game for. The fun of player interactions and the complicated politics. This would not happen if BOB controlled all of EVE and I think on some level they know this themselves too. Sooner or later BOB will get top heavy, large numbers of members will leave, spark a mutiny, make a power play... all really boiling down to them finidng a way to get the fights they are missing. Essentially they implode, eve gets carved up by all the factions shooting eachother for fun and no more BOB owning all systems. This is a natural social process and anyone with qualifications in social studies and psychology will tell you that. Human nature will eventually win out when the fighting slows down. BOB are not looking to take over the whole map so they can bring about 1000 years of peace, order and happyness. They are doing it because they want to be opposed every step of the way. If they finish that journey sooner or later people will get tired of being shot by them, join them because of an inherant desire to be on the winning side... then what? Back to the first sentiment... boooooring. CCP don't have to 'get a handle' on this. The problem will end with natural reactions. Internal strife and a lot of bored people who realise why they are bored and turn on each other. ------ Shakor Clan Information Portal http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=3
Gone'Postal Minmatar LuthorCorp Combat Division	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:40:00 - [13] No Single Alliance can control all of eve, Sure they can stop others from forming something that would challange them, but they can't keep hold of everything. The romans tried it... The **'s tried it... Known Issues & Workarounds** - The forum to fix the issues of Eve... Godhelp us if the Devs start trying to.
Nathanial Victor	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:41:00 - [14] Sometime they'll give a war and nobody will come. ~Carl Sandburg As long as their are NPC stations no one can completely control eve. There is no final victory. No complete win. Only eternal struggle towards your goals. If ppl really think BoB can take over the game, you are wacked in the head. They are good. They are real good. So are alot of other ppl w/ their own agendas that dont sit around thinking about bob all day. But if they became a direct threat to their space, they would fight back and likely it would be effective. Ppl look at ascn like it was a monumental win. It was a war yes, but if you think ASCN was even close to the same pvp stock as BoB your crazy. They had their pilots, but with many of the bloated alliances out there... it was the few pvprs defending the many carebears... and that story has played out many times in eve, always to the same end.
Verus Potestas Caldari The I-Win Button	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:42:00 - [15] I don't expect BoB to last the year as the biggest, scariest alliance out there. I also don't see BoB collapsing like ASCN either, but I don't see them being able to stand up to a combined, continued assault by AAA and RaGoon later in the year (I foresee LV falling sooner than most people think) --- In third-party forums we trust Did i ask for anyone to copy this into their sig? No, ****heads, its my text, not yours.
Derran Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:44:00 - [16] He actually makes a few good points. T2 lottery sucks. We all know that. Invention is terrible too. There is no denying that. The supplies of moon materials is what really, really sucks. I have scanned 2 thousand moons in 0.0 although not as deep as BoB territory as I would likely have gotten killed just for being there. And you know how many I found that were beyond mercury in rarity? 0. Not one. Unfortunately anything besides regular plating requires one of the 4 rares. And again, unfortunately, those materials are controlled by the bigger alliances. You can own all the T2 BPOs you want but if the supply of moon materials is control by someone else, it doesn't really matter now does it?
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:45:00 - [17] What will the alt army do when Bob finally implodes? When TAOSP/Evol are blasting BNC, who are killing DICE...etc? Post with their mains? Get their alliance to fight the Civil war of BoB? Nothing? Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Pehova Mindtriq Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:45:00 - [18] Guys, if we all help we can make this thread a big deal. Celes/Toxin vs BOB
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:46:00 - [19] Originally by: Verus Potestas Originally by: Reshei Tech 2 blueprints have been the IDOCY of CCP. Some people just ask for it. lmao gotta love it when people do that Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -Marcus TheMartin
Bawldeux IV Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:50:00 - [20] Originally by: Pehova Mindtriq Guys, if we all help we can make this thread a big deal. CCP like BoB CCP = BoB (according to some) So really, do you expect to see CCP do anything to ruin BoB fun??

Verus Potestas Caldari The I-Win Button	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:50:00 - [21] Originally by: Malthros Zenobia What will the alt army do when Bob finally implodes? Start a company blowing up hot air balloons? --- In third-party forums we trust Did i ask for anyone to copy this into their sig? No, ****heads, its my text, not yours.
Nathanial Victor	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:53:00 - [22] Originally by: Verus Potestas I don't expect BoB to last the year as the biggest, scariest alliance out there. fairly bold statement, and they probly will do fine in next year Originally by: Verus Potestas I foresee LV falling sooner than most people think i dunno, most ppl think that will be pretty fast
Major Stormer Caldari Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:57:00 - [23] OP is a idiot. Many people including myself will fight to the last stand against BOB. Nothing in eve lasts forever. They called Curse Alliance unbeatable, they called ASCN unmoveable. Look at them now.
FireFoxx80 Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.02 22:59:00 - [24] Originally by: Jim McGregor Ever heard what happened to the Roman Empire? Amen. A) If BoB gets too large it will collapse under its own weight, Roman Empire style. B) There have been plenty of alliances out there, past and present, who could take BoB on. Not saying they could win, but they could make things very bad for BoB. What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass!
Bawldeux IV Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:02:00 - [25] Originally by: Major Stormer OP is a idiot. Many people including myself will fight to the last stand against BOB. Nothing in eve lasts forever. They called Curse Alliance unbeatable, they called ASCN unmoveable. Look at them now. when was the last time you fought BoB??
Freighter Pilot	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:02:00 - [26] Edited by: Freighter Pilot on 02/01/2007 23:03:37 I, for one, am not going to worry about it until BoB actually takes over enough of the EVE universe. Until then they are just a really big alliance. EDIT: Also, there are more people not in BoB than in BoB. Just because you can't handle them doesn't mean they are invincible. Quit flattering yourself.
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:05:00 - [27] Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 02/01/2007 23:08:23 I think I will roll shaman right away. And gratz to BoB winning EVE I guess. Personally I would not have invested half the time on something that I do not own. CCP still cash in every single one of the real iskies every month, do not forget that. EDIT: I guess that means CCP still are the winners of EVE. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
Bawldeux IV Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:05:00 - [28] Edited by: Bawldeux IV on 02/01/2007 23:05:57 wow, ASCN fought for over 3 months, and people still think it was a fast war. ASCN was huge, was forced to take on BoB...it lost due to deadweight and traitors...not due to the lack of trying by the pilots that fought day in and day out for 3 months....what other alliance can claim a war that long against a group of pvp'ers such as BoB....none can.
Ghoest	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:07:00 - [29] BOB may have won the game or essentially have won. Wherever you went - here you are.
Darius Shakor Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:07:00 - [30] Originally by: Nathanial Victor Sometime they'll give a war and nobody will come. ~Carl Sandburg As long as their are NPC stations no one can completely control eve. There is no final victory. No complete win. Only eternal struggle towards your goals. If ppl really think BoB can take over the game, you are wacked in the head. All that depends on what Faction Warfare brings into the game. That will allow you to take over NPC empire space and, last dev notes I saw about this, there was talk of allowing player alliances to take npc empire space for themselves too instead of it being just for another npc empire. That is what BOB want to see. I know this because I was in a round table with a couple of BOB members at the '05 FF and they asked for that very thing to be introduced in the game. ------ Shakor Clan Information Portal http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=3

Galk Gallente Autumn Tactics All the things she said	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:09:00 - [31] Edited by: Galk on 02/01/2007 23:15:02 Normaly i wouldn't care to comment, but.. Just wait for ccp to toss them the factional warfare bone, that'll grant them immortality. Edit* I just saw Darius's post after posting/ No suprises thats what they are lobbying for. ______
Xori Ruscuv Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:11:00 - [32] Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 02/01/2007 23:12:17 WTF? Everyone is saying "BOB HAS WON EVE!" How has BOB won Eve? They've won a war. Kudos to them. SO WHAT? I'm not trying to insult BOB's accomplishments here. I'm simply saying: yeah, ok BOB won a war. That war didn't determine the balance of EVE. BOB overthrew a weaker force. And? It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it? This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap...
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:12:00 - [33] Originally by: Darius Shakor All that depends on what Faction Warfare brings into the game. That will allow you to take over NPC empire space and, last dev notes I saw about this, there was talk of allowing player alliances to take npc empire space for themselves too instead of it being just for another npc empire. That is what BOB want to see. I know this because I was in a round table with a couple of BOB members at the '05 FF and they asked for that very thing to be introduced in the game. That sounds like a reasonable plan after CCP have released World of Darkness Online so everybody else can move on to that. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
Tigrezz Blitz	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:12:00 - [34] Edited by: Tigrezz Blitz on 02/01/2007 23:15:55 The history will repeat itself... http://dl1.eve-files.com/media/0605/alliance_history.swf null
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:13:00 - [35] Hopefully another space MMO comes along b4 BOB totally ruins the game for everyone... Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead
ollobrains Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:14:00 - [36] join privateers fun to be had by all we shoot everyone for those of u wnting endless PVP BOB find it hard in empier we dont see em much but the others we do they have a lot of assets yes but they wont get to large lest they fall apart
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:16:00 - [37] Originally by: Bawldeux IV Edited by: Bawldeux IV on 02/01/2007 23:05:57 wow, ASCN fought for over 3 months, and people still think it was a fast war. ASCN was huge, was forced to take on BoB...it lost due to deadweight and traitors...not due to the lack of trying by the pilots that fought day in and day out for 3 months....what other alliance can claim a war that long against a group of pvp'ers such as BoB....none can. Nonsense. ASCN was the theoretically strongest entity we have ever engaged in a serious war. Practically it turned out a bummer, which is at least partly due to our skill at 'total' warfare rather then the 'pistols at dawn' style that half of Eve's public seems to prefer. Anyway, they lasted ridiculously short for the amount of infrastructure and pure reserves they had lying around. PA lasted al damn lot longer, and that was without sovereignty to draw out wars artificially, with fewer numbers and a damn sight more fighting. Took us a year to win that one, and it was messier then this one by far. Anyway, yes, relative to the amount of resistance ASCN could have thrown at us this was a short war yes. But to conclude what the OP is concluding is slightly ridiculous. If T2 BPO's win wars then we should by all rights have lost this one. ISK is only one factor in a war, and it's not the most important by far, that's the real lesso from this war, not that BoB will kill all of you because of having a few tech2 bpo's. Old blog Originally by: Vriezuh Naz: John is a realist
Bawldeux IV Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:18:00 - [38] Originally by: Darius Shakor Originally by: Nathanial Victor Sometime they'll give a war and nobody will come. ~Carl Sandburg As long as their are NPC stations no one can completely control eve. There is no final victory. No complete win. Only eternal struggle towards your goals. If ppl really think BoB can take over the game, you are wacked in the head. All that depends on what Faction Warfare brings into the game. That will allow you to take over NPC empire space and, last dev notes I saw about this, there was talk of allowing player alliances to take npc empire space for themselves too instead of it being just for another npc empire. That is what BOB want to see. I know this because I was in a round table with a couple of BOB members at the '05 FF and they asked for that very thing to be introduced in the game. BoB watches alliance X take over an empire region, BoB wardecs them, wins, BoB takes over empire too, Eve = Bob, game over... Of course it was introduced to the game, BoB asked for it, so BoB got it.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:18:00 - [39] Edited by: DarkMatter on 02/01/2007 23:19:52 Originally by: Xori Ruscuv Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 02/01/2007 23:12:17 WTF? Everyone is saying "BOB HAS WON EVE!" How has BOB won Eve? They've won a war. Kudos to them. SO WHAT? I'm not trying to insult BOB's accomplishments here. I'm simply saying: yeah, ok BOB won a war. That war didn't determine the balance of EVE. BOB overthrew a weaker force. And? I think with factional warfare & sov features coming in the future, it will no longer be simply winning a war, but one alliance dictating to a large portion of the EVE player base what they can and cannot do in game, will simply ruin the game... Who wants to log in and have a bunch of egotistical players tell you what you can't do? No one... We need more alliances, fighting over smaller pockets of space not a few heavyweights owning it all... CCP has it backwards as usual... Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:19:00 - [40] Oh and rofl @ conquerable NPC regions in empire. Those aren't going to happen, don't mistake people asking for things they should be asking for for lobbying of some sorts. CCP know full well that NPC regions are essentail within Eve, and that no single entity can ever be allowed to directly control all space, or even all 0.0. What you should be worrying about is indirect control. Old blog Originally by: Vriezuh Naz: John is a realist

Darius Shakor Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:19:00 - [41] Originally by: Galk Normaly i wouldn't care to comment, but.. Just wait for ccp to toss them the factional warfare bone, that'll grant them immortality. Well to be fair it is not just tossing BOB a bone as most alliances would like to have this ability too. It is not like BOB will be the only ones that can actually do it. And no it won't grant them imortality. Systems would have to be held by force too after all, just like 0.0. And that is if, like I said before, BOB do not get bored on their own success and fight each other for the sake of it, reducing claimed terriroty under one name substancially. Heck, imagine now if a corp like RKK just up and left BOB for whatever reason. How much BOB sov space is owned by RKK? (I don't know obviously but you get the idea.) If a corp claiming large portions of BOB space left, the large portion of BOB space leaves with it. They have to then fill it before anyone else if they want to keep it. When it boils down to that, it is a very simple overnight affair for BOB to fall from grace if this happens. Ohh and BOB I am not saying I want to see that happen btw. Much respect and all that for how you guys get the job done so well. But we all know it will happen one day. ------ Shakor Clan Information Portal http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=3
Bawldeux IV Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:20:00 - [42] Originally by: ollobrains join privateers fun to be had by all we shoot everyone for those of u wnting endless PVP BOB find it hard in empier we dont see em much but the others we do they have a lot of assets yes but they wont get to large lest they fall apart BoB has slaves to goto empire.
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:20:00 - [43] Nobody is going to beat BoB unless they are better than BoB. Sounds simple? Its not. By better I mean a lot of things: better at organisation, better at motivating people, better at targetting exactly what it is that draws and retrains dedicated fighters to the cause of the upper echelons of the alliance. What I do know is that nobody is going to beat BoB by being BoB-lite and at the moment thats practically the entire landscape of 0.0 where the corps and alliances out there use the same combat ideology and rules of engagement as BoB without the dedication, consistency and general talent to pull it off. Popular anti BoB uprising? Ain't going to happen while the people BoB are annhilating are just as bad as the big bad BoB itself. Who has any sympathy for a 0.0 alliance that gets rich shooting everyone and greedily hoarding its resources and then suddenly gets kicked around the room by the arrival of a bigger bully? Nobody thats who. But of course you are kinda missing the bigger picture. BoB is only a problem for the sort of 0.0 NBSI space-claiming imperialist alliance that nobody else likes anyhow. People playing the mobile raiding game, people fighting empire wars, running tech2 industry, doing their own thing and not staking their in-game fiscal future to a flag and barren patch of 0.0 don't have to worry about "BoB domination" in the slightest. This is a specific problem and issue for territorial imperialists coming to terms with the fact that there is actually someone out there bigger and badder than they are. Its the would-be Cyvocks of this cluster that need to face this problem and find a way of confronting it not the rank-and-file player watching the political fallout and tragedy from the sidelines in the corp and org forum. How should they even begin to deal with the now-almost unstoppable BoB 0.0 empire-eating juggernaut powerbloc? Start by realising that you don't fight a monster by being a monster, and if you want to stage a popular uprising you have to offer something to the populace. Until some series re-thinks of typical 0.0 ideology occur then nobody will care about the famous NBSI entities that go under the wheels beyond a certain sense of schadenfreude at the discomforture of little tyrants at the hands of bigger ones. But its not going happen for a while. At the moment I'm fairly convinced that 0.0 alliance leaders lack imagination and thats the thing thats killing them. Ah well, thats how evolution works (in more ways than one). Star Fraction is recruiting
Darius Shakor Minmatar Freelance Unincorporated Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:24:00 - [44] Originally by: Rod Blaine Oh and rofl @ conquerable NPC regions in empire. Those aren't going to happen, don't mistake people asking for things they should be asking for for lobbying of some sorts. CCP know full well that NPC regions are essentail within Eve, and that no single entity can ever be allowed to directly control all space, or even all 0.0. What you should be worrying about is indirect control. Yes I don't see CCP allowing everything to be owned by any players or even another empire faction supporters. What would happen to the school systems if the likes of Ammold or Hulm were taken over by an Amarr alliance like the CVA or AM? Would everyone joining the military school or the university school end up as automatic members of AM and CVA to start the game? So no I don't see such a request by any player being granted at all. Taking over some of the regions maybe, but the core regions and systems will always remain indominable. ------ Shakor Clan Information Portal http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=3
Velsharoon Gallente Finite Horizon	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:27:00 - [45] Originally by: Reshei The BoB Victory over ASCN is yet another indication of just how poerful that alliance is. W BoB is powerful I will admit, but the victory was nothing more than an indication of how weak ascn was.
Bawldeux IV Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:28:00 - [46] Originally by: Rod Blaine Originally by: Bawldeux IV Edited by: Bawldeux IV on 02/01/2007 23:05:57 wow, ASCN fought for over 3 months, and people still think it was a fast war. ASCN was huge, was forced to take on BoB...it lost due to deadweight and traitors...not due to the lack of trying by the pilots that fought day in and day out for 3 months....what other alliance can claim a war that long against a group of pvp'ers such as BoB....none can. Nonsense. ASCN was the theoretically strongest entity we have ever engaged in a serious war. Practically it turned out a bummer, which is at least partly due to our skill at 'total' warfare rather then the 'pistols at dawn' style that half of Eve's public seems to prefer. Anyway, they lasted ridiculously short for the amount of infrastructure and pure reserves they had lying around. PA lasted al damn lot longer, and that was without sovereignty to draw out wars artificially, with fewer numbers and a damn sight more fighting. Took us a year to win that one, and it was messier then this one by far. Anyway, yes, relative to the amount of resistance ASCN could have thrown at us this was a short war yes. But to conclude what the OP is concluding is slightly ridiculous. If T2 BPO's win wars then we should by all rights have lost this one. ISK is only one factor in a war, and it's not the most important by far, that's the real lesso from this war, not that BoB will kill all of you because of having a few tech2 bpo's. Yawn, put down the spin-dr machine... BoB wins because...CCP wants it that way.
Xori Ruscuv Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:29:00 - [47] Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 02/01/2007 23:29:51 Originally by: Bawldeux IV BoB wins because...CCP wants it that way. LOL Where do you people get this crap? EVIDENCE? None. (Edited to remove analogy to real life modern political conspiracy theorists ) It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it? This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap...
Verus Potestas Caldari The I-Win Button	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:32:00 - [48] Originally by: Xori Ruscuv Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 02/01/2007 23:29:51 Originally by: Bawldeux IV BoB wins because...CCP wants it that way. LOL Where do you people get this crap? EVIDENCE? None. (Edited to remove analogy to real life modern political conspiracy theorists ) Don't you know? CCP are BoB alts? How could you not know that, noob --- In third-party forums we trust Did i ask for anyone to copy this into their sig? No, ****heads, its my text, not yours.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:33:00 - [49] I\ll tell you right now what factional warfare in 2007 can amount to, give or take some eyecandy here and there. First, there's just npc corps involved, NPC corps that then get to set up pos's in low sec enemy empire systmes that are pre-identified as systems that might change sovereignty. That's it, untill like the end of 2007. You'll get some mission-type structuring for it as well as event-team set up contracts to do key stuff in key areas probably, but my bet is that it's going to come down to some of the dead low sec space being made of variable sovereignty, and having new players fight something that's supposed to amount to battles over those systems. It could still get interesting after that (meaning 2008), but only if CCP allow soveriegnty changes within empire to actually have effects that reach beyond that bit of forgotten low sec space they'll assign to it. Seeing how a tool as potentially wonderfull as the standing system that's been around since release has yet to be exapnded on a single time I'm going to assume none of the good stuff is going to happen, and that factional warfare will remian a farce for some time. Anyway, don't worry, the good people of jita are not going to be inconvenienced by CCP, not even when BoB ask for it no.. Old blog Originally by: Vriezuh Naz: John is a realist
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:33:00 - [50] Originally by: Xori Ruscuv Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 02/01/2007 23:29:51 Originally by: Bawldeux IV BoB wins because...CCP wants it that way. LOL Where do you people get this crap? EVIDENCE? None. (Edited to remove analogy to real life modern political conspiracy theorists ) The DEV's made EVE so they could play it. The DEV's joined/created Bob so they could rule the game they created... Even without facts to prove this, we all know this is more true than any other alliance having the most DEV's in it... Besides, rumors are fun... Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead

Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:38:00 - [51] Edited by: Plutoinum on 02/01/2007 23:44:33 Edited by: Plutoinum on 02/01/2007 23:40:59 This war hasn't shown that BoB is unbeatable, it has shown that ASCN couldn't beat BoB. So it takes a force stronger and better organized than ASCN to challenge BoB. Is that impossible to form such an alliance/coalition ? No, but it involves some effort. And you have more means to defeat a strong opponent in EVE than in other games: You can ally with whoever you like, you can outnumber, you don't have to beat them in a 'fair' game with very limited rules like e.g. in sports. In EVE you can use whatever you like to win. The players have the means they need to defeat BoB. If they don't use them, they have no right to complain. /edit And like others said: Bob isn't the only superpower left in EVE and people can form new ones any time. CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix.
Bawldeux IV Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:40:00 - [52] Originally by: Xori Ruscuv Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 02/01/2007 23:29:51 Originally by: Bawldeux IV BoB wins because...CCP wants it that way. LOL Where do you people get this crap? EVIDENCE? None. (Edited to remove analogy to real life modern political conspiracy theorists ) you read far to much into it. CCP wants Eve=BoB (how BoB plays)so what I said is true, ccp wants it that way.
Verus Potestas Caldari The I-Win Button	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:41:00 - [53] Originally by: Bawldeux IV Originally by: Xori Ruscuv Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 02/01/2007 23:29:51 Originally by: Bawldeux IV BoB wins because...CCP wants it that way. LOL Where do you people get this crap? EVIDENCE? None. (Edited to remove analogy to real life modern political conspiracy theorists ) you read far to much into it. CCP wants Eve=BoB (how BoB plays)so what I said is true, ccp wants it that way. No, that is completely different to what you said. In the first situation, CCP are making the game to make BoB powerful. In the second situation, BoB are the best at the game CCP made. --- In third-party forums we trust Did i ask for anyone to copy this into their sig? No, ****heads, its my text, not yours.
Khorian Gallente Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:43:00 - [54] Originally by: Sergio Ling BoB Win War ERGO BoB Win Eve ERGO BoB Buy 51% of shares in CCP ERGO BoB introduces Elves to Eve ERGO Everyone rolls shaman Sorry, Elves can't be shamen.
Kyria Timeyu	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:44:00 - [55] You just have to look at Shadowbane to see that it is possible for a guild to just "win" the game and have nobody left to fight. On every server in Shadowbane, a year after release, there was one powerful guild that basically owned all the good places, a bunch of pet guilds that were allowed to coexist for paying taxes and weak non-pet guilds that made a living hiding their cities and hoping they wouldn't get noticed, because if they did, the big guild would just come and stomp their assets in an afternoon. Internal strife did exist, but whenever that came up, the main guild would stomp the splitters and be on their way again. And yes, that led to the death of the game because nobody pays $15 a month to farm money to build up a country only to have a bunch of losers tear it down as soon as it gets pretty enough to want it.
Bawldeux IV Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:44:00 - [56] Originally by: Plutoinum This war hasn't shown that BoB is unbeatable, it has shown that ASCN couldn't beat BoB. So it takes a force stronger and better organized than ASCN to challenge BoB. Is that impossible to form such an alliance/coalition ? No, but it involves some effort. And you have more means to defeat a strong opponent in EVE than in other games: You can ally with whoever you like, you can outnumber, you don't have to beat them in a 'fair' game with very limited rules like e.g. in sports. The players have the means they need to defeat BoB. If they don't use them, they have no right to complain. ok, you are close, but you are sooo far still...I doubt any alliance will get together and defeat BoB, ever. BoB has 3 year head start, and you can't beat the hands of time...so BoB has won the game... When BoB has all of 0.0 space, the game will be over for many. why? Because empire sucks!
Noriath	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:45:00 - [57] Originally by: Xori Ruscuv BOB will never be able to take over ALL 0.0 space. Why? - Invite only recruitment practices: They make sure every single invited member fits their standards of quality. People of such quality aren't in infinite supply, thus their troop growth MUST slow to a stop at some point. - A lot of people hate BOB: Right or wrong, agree with BOB or their opposition, one thing is undeniable... that is, a lot of people hate BOB. This means that BOB's forces WILL reach as maximum, and they MUST stop growing at some point. - Given that BOB's troop growth must slow to a stop at some point, there is a maximum quantity of space that they can safely claim and hold. The basic points are true, they don't recruit just anyone, which is ultimately the source of their PvP strength and yes, a lot of people hate them, but that doesn't mean that there is a maximum of space they can hold. That's just not how Eve works. A superalliance that has nearly unlimited funds simply isn't restricted in a major way by the ammount of space they controll right now, because they can have entire fleets stationed in every other region and jumpclone in as needed. The nature of POS warfare gives them hours to respond to first strikes, which an alliance with tons of dedicated people can do in great numbers. We've all seen that the numbers of such alliances double in 5 minuites when they are under atack. Even if you knock a POS into reinforced you're dealing with the lot of them ~36 hours later. Most likely they will know you are coming since organized spying is pretty much key to successful wars by now. POS warfare in a pure war of atrition. Dreadnaughts cost more then POS, if properly defended you can expect to loose several dreads on a single POS. Your enemy doesn't even need capitals to defend his stations properly. The only way to knock down enemy POS in relative safety is to do it when nobody else is in the system. If your access to 0.0 is restricted and the other alliances has major profits from Tech 2 BPOs the ammount of dreads they can field vs. the ammount of dreads you can field will ultimately force you to stop taking more systems, simply because you have run out of dreads. Fueling and supplying stations around the galaxy isn't as big a chore as it should be. In fact you don't even need sovreignty of systems that have no stations, sovreignty doesn't do anything for you except tell the whole of Eve where you are. A superalliance doesn't need much more then a few small towers in their systems, because if they get wind of an atack they can stock up that number to 20 deathstars over night. They still have more money then you, so in terms of POS spamming they can easily outdo you. Also when we're talking about the superalliance that wins Eve we are always talking about tech 2 BPOs, which means under the current system even if you kick them out of 0.0 you can never stop them from surging back later, since it's impossible to destroy their source of income. So what does it really boil down to? - Space is very small, even smaller with jumpclones, you atack a superalliance and they will be able to respond with everything they have, regardless of where you struck them, jumpclones make them more manuverable then you, not less. - POS warfare costs the atacker a lot more then the defender, meaning the agressor has to have a lot more money then the defender to be successful. - Holding large ammounts of space isn't expensive or hard, since you can anchor expensive defensive stations in a snap when you need them and leave them in your hangar when you don't. - Tech 2 BPOs will give them more income then you have even if they have no space left, meaning you can never really stop them from coming back. And no, BoB rule does not keep everyone out of 0.0 or kill the game completly, since BoB does allow tenant corps. If BoB took over they would be more like CONCORD then like the all powerful superalliance in my oppinion.
Galk Gallente Autumn Tactics All the things she said	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:45:00 - [58] I don't realy care to involve myself in anything alliance wise darius, it's a **** poor pot i steer well clear of. Just a statement that fits the meaning of how they exist, and how they will continue to flourish. 'tragedy from the sidelines' Nice one jade, i remember having a friendly morning conversation over coffee with an ex alliance leader who explained that one in detail to me once. Good choice of words. ______
Bawldeux IV Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:46:00 - [59] Originally by: Kyria Timeyu You just have to look at Shadowbane to see that it is possible for a guild to just "win" the game and have nobody left to fight. On every server in Shadowbane, a year after release, there was one powerful guild that basically owned all the good places, a bunch of pet guilds that were allowed to coexist for paying taxes and weak non-pet guilds that made a living hiding their cities and hoping they wouldn't get noticed, because if they did, the big guild would just come and stomp their assets in an afternoon. Internal strife did exist, but whenever that came up, the main guild would stomp the splitters and be on their way again. And yes, that led to the death of the game because nobody pays $15 a month to farm money to build up a country only to have a bunch of losers tear it down as soon as it gets pretty enough to want it. yep, tried many servers, found them all to be that way, abandoned the game...shame really, it had potential.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:48:00 - [60] I don't think anyone is stating Bob is not the best at empire building, they are, good for them... You can't blame them for anything, they're not doing anything wrong... I think the problem is when we have Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, Minmatar & Bob... The empire building system CCP created lends itself to this outcome. Alliances can control too much space too easily. Add into that the ISK infrastructure gained from controlling space, and gobbling up the T2 BPO's, and you have a snowball effect. The Bob snowball is only going to get bigger, and all the other snowballs will melt... When that happens, EVE will truly suck... Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead

Bawldeux IV Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:48:00 - [61] Originally by: Verus Potestas Originally by: Bawldeux IV Originally by: Xori Ruscuv Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 02/01/2007 23:29:51 Originally by: Bawldeux IV BoB wins because...CCP wants it that way. LOL Where do you people get this crap? EVIDENCE? None. (Edited to remove analogy to real life modern political conspiracy theorists ) you read far to much into it. CCP wants Eve=BoB (how BoB plays)so what I said is true, ccp wants it that way. No, that is completely different to what you said. In the first situation, CCP are making the game to make BoB powerful. In the second situation, BoB are the best at the game CCP made. how you wish to 'read' things is up to you, just don't bore me with fanboi buttkissing.
Sovereign533 Caldari The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:53:00 - [62] come on, the bigger they are, the harder they fall... but do you have any idea how big ur alliance has to be to be able to capture, and maintain all the 0.0 space in eve? it's next to impossible... Second sig removed, only 1 signature graphic please - Xorus ^_^WOOHOO!!! my Sig finally got nerfed... Added pink because it was lacking - Petwraith
Shakeera	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:53:00 - [63] Bahh Way to go BOB, ASCN and any other alliance out there actually making a difference in this game. I remember the same threads about MoO when they first beat the crap out of everyone. Some Corps will get get together and give them a run for the money. If not they will get bored and disband. They all do.
Roy Batty68 Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:54:00 - [64] I've never played a game that brought out so much paranoia in people. It's like Half Baked EVE style... Don't ya'all ever get the munchies?
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.01.02 23:55:00 - [65] Edited by: Plutoinum on 02/01/2007 23:56:45 Originally by: Bawldeux IV Originally by: Plutoinum This war hasn't shown that BoB is unbeatable, it has shown that ASCN couldn't beat BoB. So it takes a force stronger and better organized than ASCN to challenge BoB. Is that impossible to form such an alliance/coalition ? No, but it involves some effort. And you have more means to defeat a strong opponent in EVE than in other games: You can ally with whoever you like, you can outnumber, you don't have to beat them in a 'fair' game with very limited rules like e.g. in sports. The players have the means they need to defeat BoB. If they don't use them, they have no right to complain. ok, you are close, but you are sooo far still...I doubt any alliance will get together and defeat BoB, ever. BoB has 3 year head start, and you can't beat the hands of time...so BoB has won the game... When BoB has all of 0.0 space, the game will be over for many. why? Because empire sucks! If BoB+XETIC had to go alone vs. RA+Goon+TCF+IMP+IAC(dunno), they would probably have a hard time. Then there are other strong anti-bob forces like the block around D2, CELES, RAT etc. who might assist maybe .... don't know the exact relations at the moment ... But you can't tell me that all those groups are totally helpless against BoB. That's just stupid ! The truth is: BoB is not such a plague for the EVE universe yet that everyone wants to unite against them. Just because you have a big problem with BoB doesn't mean that everyone has. From my perspective the development around RA+Goon is more disturbing. CTD/con-loss vs. log-out. A proposal for a fix.
Khorian Gallente Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.01.03 00:03:00 - [66] Well, to the OP. Why do you play this game? Don't you like the fact that YOU can do what YOU want? You don't like BoB? Go join another Alliance that is opposing them and help them out. 2007 could very well see a big war. The bigger BoB gets, the more resistance it will meet. Maybe some day some Alliances band together to face that threat. It could be the first Universe Wide War. Can the people in Empire stay uninvolved when the rest of the universe goes up in flames? Nope, UW1 would be total war, faction warfare involved and all. I think it would be too hardcore even for CCP because it would probably have some empire carebears cancel, but i think it would be fun anyway hehe. Ah well one can always hope!
Ghoest	Posted - 2007.01.03 00:05:00 - [67] Originally by: Plutoinum If BoB+friends had to go alone vs. RA+Goon+TCF+IMP+IAC(dunno), they would probably have a hard time. Then there are other strong anti-bob forces like the block around D2, CELES, RAT etc. who might assist maybe .... don't know the exact relations at the moment ... But you can't tell me that all those groups are totally helpless against BoB. That's just stupid ! The truth is: BoB is not such a plague for the EVE universe yet that everyone wants to unite against them. Just because you have a big problem with BoB doesn't mean that everyone has. From my perspective the development around RA+Goon is more disturbing. edit: wrote xetic... lol. sorry meant xelas ofc. No of those have close to the infra structure BOB has. I suspect BOB will smash the rest of the mega alliances one at a time. They wont try to control the whole place they will just destroy any one who dares look them in the eye. I consider that winning EVE. Wherever you went - here you are.
Dr Shameless Skull Soft The Sundering	Posted - 2007.01.03 00:06:00 - [68] emo ftl conflict and drama makes this game interesting. they might try to conquer the galaxy but they cant destroy an enemy who has solid out of game relationship between its pilots - being it driven by patriotism (TCF, RA) or by other somethingawful means (GS) its like tranquility would never suceed in fight against the chinese server if they introduced it as an parallel universe accessible through the eve gate :) and theres always the possibility of civil war im sure the devs will start pulling the strings when they see it necessary
Ninna Amarr Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed	Posted - 2007.01.03 00:09:00 - [69] The goons will stop them, just wait and see.
Bawldeux IV Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.01.03 00:09:00 - [70] Originally by: Plutoinum Edited by: Plutoinum on 03/01/2007 00:00:50 Edited by: Plutoinum on 02/01/2007 23:56:45 Originally by: Bawldeux IV Originally by: Plutoinum This war hasn't shown that BoB is unbeatable, it has shown that ASCN couldn't beat BoB. So it takes a force stronger and better organized than ASCN to challenge BoB. Is that impossible to form such an alliance/coalition ? No, but it involves some effort. And you have more means to defeat a strong opponent in EVE than in other games: You can ally with whoever you like, you can outnumber, you don't have to beat them in a 'fair' game with very limited rules like e.g. in sports. The players have the means they need to defeat BoB. If they don't use them, they have no right to complain. ok, you are close, but you are sooo far still...I doubt any alliance will get together and defeat BoB, ever. BoB has 3 year head start, and you can't beat the hands of time...so BoB has won the game... When BoB has all of 0.0 space, the game will be over for many. why? Because empire sucks! If BoB+friends had to go alone vs. RA+Goon+TCF+IMP+IAC(dunno), they would probably have a hard time. Then there are other strong anti-bob forces like the block around D2, CELES, RAT etc. who might assist maybe .... don't know the exact relations at the moment ... But you can't tell me that all those groups are totally helpless against BoB. That's just stupid ! The truth is: BoB is not such a plague for the EVE universe yet that everyone wants to unite against them. Just because you have a big problem with BoB doesn't mean that everyone has. From my perspective the development around RA+Goon is more disturbing. edit: wrote xetic... lol. sorry meant xelas ofc. it is a reality, those 'groups' will never stand together, they would implode on the internal conflict for epeen superiority long before they became a threat to BoB.

Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2007.01.03 00:12:00 - [71] I know this thread is supposed to be about how much bob sucks/rocks but still... Originally by: Reshei 1) Seed the Tech 2 BPOs on the market There are no words for how angry people like you make me. HAVE YOU NO SHAME? The system we have now for T2 bpos is the best we are going to get. If you want the best items in the game to be grindable for, I suggest you go play a certain game that rhymes with "cow". Besides, we have invention, and I'm sure it's due for a revamp. Oh and I absolutely loathe the "BoB winz eve" mentality. It reeks of unintelligent, pointless bandwaggoning.
Bastogne Caldari Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.03 00:12:00 - [72] Originally by: Khorian Don't you like the fact that YOU can do what YOU want? You don't like BoB? Go join another Alliance that is opposing them and help them out. Who?
Dr Einkeisel Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.03 00:17:00 - [73] oh dear god. HELLO ? HELLO ?
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.03 00:19:00 - [74] Originally by: Dr Einkeisel oh dear god. HELLO ? HELLO ? You rang? Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead
Alitha Maru Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2007.01.03 00:28:00 - [75] I've heard this thing so many times in so many games. But history, both in RL and in games, show that all great empires will fall. In games it is usually due to boredom of the best and most dedicated people in the alliances/corporations. When there is no real challenge anymore, they will leave for something better. Maybe even join the opposite side, just for kicks. When the core dedicated players leave, things tend to fall apart. Then there will be another war, a new alliance will rise to the top and everyone will scream bloody murder and we will be back here at a similar thread again some time in the future Don't worry.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.03 00:29:00 - [76] Edited by: DarkMatter on 03/01/2007 00:34:43 Quote: im sure the devs will start pulling the strings when they see it necessary You see, we don't want that though... It's supposed to be player driven content... I just hope the new SOV system (if they come up with one) makes it much much harder to control space... Alliances the size of LV & Bob should not be able to control what they do, that has to change... We need more players out in 0.0 creating the content, but a more diversified alliance pool... This is just not going to happen, and it's all because of POS'... The T2 lottery & sov/POS' have really hurt the game in this regard... Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead
Temerlyn Minmatar STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.01.03 00:35:00 - [77] Edited by: Temerlyn on 03/01/2007 00:36:53 Edited by: Temerlyn on 03/01/2007 00:36:23 Again a miss informed post by some one on the outside (seems this way anyway). As far as i can see one thing bob has over many other alliances is a plan and a team. ASCN lack of agressiveness cost them pilots and skill for pvp. Had the BoB vs ascn war taken place a couple months after the g invasion it may have been a different story, back them ascn was leaner and come out of a war pretty hyped. It's safe to say ASCN got fat, had we had proper fighters in the alliance for our number we would of been able to outblob and massacre bob on a daily basis. Even if you take into account the high alt population quotent of ascn we still should of done it. But like most entites we have never gotten a decent name for ourselves as a pvp corp. STK itself is a reasonably well known and respected name and in the bob war showed we have some mettle but its never enough. So to fight BoB or such entities we need more pilots. We have to suffer with open recruitment from the general populace while bob has such a name they can pick or choose as they see fit. Thus their quality of pilot is better. Not only that they select those who have proven they will fight, not say they will and dont step up to the plate. ASCn invited almost anyone in several corps just to meet the requirements of 100 people in a corp. Many of those corps never had a plan to survive a seige or enough people with honor for their corp. Many packed up and left when bob came knocking, many more left when we started to loose major engagements. Even when i am on the loosing team i understand its not totally bob being uber an all that made them win. It was us loosing what we once had. Again and again eve is won by might not how many mins you can mine. STK will fight BoB pretty much from here on in. Will we win, most likely not, infact i dont have any delusions about it. What BoB provide us is now someone to fight, to allow those who started to pvp and enjoy it to enjoy it more with a sense of doing something for the corp instead of sensless ganks in empire. BoB have taught us that apathy and a non combat attitude is not the way to be remembered in eve. We will be remembered for sticking it to BoB but at the same time with respect and knowledge that this is how to play eve. Bob can be beaten if alliances adopt better policies and team work.
Stanis Gallente 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.01.03 00:36:00 - [78] BoB will not win EVE bcs I will never allow it! There, not you can go to sleep and not worrie about it... On the other hand, nubs talking that any alliance can control whole EVE make me sick. After all, we are not on the China server!
Bastogne Caldari Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.03 00:40:00 - [79] I wish the southeast wasn't so full of in-fighting because there are some pretty good pvp'ers down here. All these guys do day in day out is slaughter each other.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.03 00:41:00 - [80] Quote: BoB have taught us that apathy and a non combat attitude is not the way to be remembered in eve. I think that's part of the problem... If you play EVE to be remembered, chances are you won't... Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead

Phyrr Minmatar The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2007.01.03 00:44:00 - [81] Originally by: Jim McGregor Ever heard what happened to the Roman Empire? Or any other empire for that matter.
Sakura Nihil Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.01.03 00:51:00 - [82] It all comes down to control - can BoB maintain strong internal cohesion that will prevent corporate power struggles, while at the same time keeping enough numbers and firepower to keep their serfs in check, defend their borders, and conquer new territory? For the short-term, yes, they'll be fine, and be a superpower. But, as strong as they are, in time they will fracture and succumb to internal political pressures, it is inevitable - hence, don't worry about them, they're not going to "Win EVE" by any margin, although it is likely they'll go down in the history books as the alliance that came closest to it .
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.03 01:04:00 - [83] What would ruin EVE is a single controlling alliance preventing 99% of players from experiencing 99% of the game's content. That would kill EVE. However: 1) BoB are not a single, all powerful, all controlling alliance. They're good, but they arn't that good. 2) Winning wars does not cause -1). People win wars all the time. Someone had to win that war. If ASCN won that war, would we be saying the same thing, positions reversed? 3) BoB do not want -1) to occour. BoB is a PvP alliance. Their members love PvP. They war-dec for PvP. If BoB were all powerful, who would they fight? Bored members would soon split off and start fighting each other for their kicks- it'd be that or quit EVE, having "won". 4) T2 BPOs were not the reason for BoB's victory. Of the two rivals, ASCN were the richer and more numerous enemy. BoB won by (presumably) being a more dedicated and/or talented PvP force than their rivals. 5) You worry too much. -----------------------------------------------
Helen Tranter	Posted - 2007.01.03 01:33:00 - [84] Edited by: Helen Tranter on 03/01/2007 01:36:49 My First Rant I have kept my keyboard silent throughout the war against Bob, but would just like to say this with out diss'ing the good PvP's. The Motto going around BOB and its Slave Corps at the start of the war was "ANITHING GOES" This means they used any tactic ingame and out of game to gain an advantage, they know the rules and know what rules to break before there players get band. This is a sad fact and only detracts from there win and will stain any Bob player in the eyes of Eve's community weather they are part of these tactics or not. The fact that CCP has allowed this to take place is there failing and Eve's loss. Ex ASCN PS: Plz bare in mind that the original poster of this thead is BOB
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.03 01:35:00 - [85] Originally by: Helen Tranter My First Rant I have kept my keyboard silent throughout the war against Bob, but would just like to say this with out diss'ing the good PvP's. The Motto going around BOB and its Slave Corps at the start of the war was " ANITHING GOES". This means they used any tactic ingame and out of game to gain an advantage, they know the rules and know what rules to break before there players get band. This is a sad fact and only detracts from there win and will stain any Bob player in the eyes of Eve's community weather they are part of these tactics or not. The fact that CCP has allowed this to take place is there failing and Eve's loss. Ex ASCN PS: Plz bare in mind that the original poster of this thead is BOB Out of game tactics? Like what? Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead
Shayla Sh'inlux Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.03 01:37:00 - [86] Let me get straight that I have a lot of respect for what BoB accomplished and the determination of their players. Fact is, unfortunately, that as it is BoB makes alliance warfare and the building empires part less attractive, if not impossible, to the rest of Eve. In fact, BoB got that part right and basically said: "join us, be our friend or never get to endgame", to put it boldly. There will always be the odd corp saying: "We will oppose BoB whatever whenever", but seriously what are they gonna do? I know of several people that said that and are now in Evolution or Dice. Quote: ASCN was the theoretically strongest entity we have ever engaged in a serious war. Practically it turned out a bummer, which is at least partly due to our skill at 'total' warfare rather then the 'pistols at dawn' style that half of Eve's public seems to prefer. While true to some extent your succes has a lot to do with the types of players in BoB right now. Due to the early succes of the original Evolution/RKK/BNC combination your alliance pretty much contains all "serious" players of today. The kind of guys that are always there, play 3-4 hours a day, stay up late at night to defend a PoS and spend countless hours in blobs. Every time BoB defeats another entity it adds the hardcore group of said entity to her ranks, making the gap wider every day. That's just plain clever. It's the kind of player needed for succes in the game as it is, while a guy like me, who squeezes in the odd hour during weekdays and an evening in the weekend isn't gonna make you win wars. You offer an attractive environment to the hardcore player. No more - no less. That and that alone is the basis for BoB's succes. I also don't agree that ASCN was the strongest entity. They were big and fat, with nothing but hobbits looking at their own wallet. Their core corps folded in a matter of weeks and I'm sure you acquired several new players that wanted to win Eve instead of be laughed at on the C&A forum. The strongest target is still up north, but I have no doubt BoB would crush D2 in a month tops would they go for them. They might have a few dozen nice new pilots to add to your ranks too. Quote: Anyway, they lasted ridiculously short for the amount of infrastructure and pure reserves they had lying around. That is because their average pilot doesn't feel like sitting in a fleet long enough outblob you 1:2 in order to stand a chance. Don't forget that due to all the experience, skillpoints and die-hards in your alliance one cannot take on a BoB fleet with equal numbers and expect to come out somewhat in your favor - you'd get completely massacred. Quote: But to conclude what the OP is concluding is slightly ridiculous. If T2 BPO's win wars then we should by all rights have lost this one. ISK is only one factor in a war, and it's not the most important by far, that's the real lesso from this war, not that BoB will kill all of you because of having a few tech2 bpo's. Absolutely true. However, what BoB is doing, is converting 0.0 into an extremely attractive place for pirates. There is the core of BoB parading over someone else's space, killing morale and splitting them up. Then there's the installment of friendlies, making old enemies into new friends and then the protection leaves and shoots at a new target. Meanwhile, building an empire of your own means you will just lose it to BoB at some point (I think the victory over ASCN showed as much), so the only alternative is to go friendly with them and have nothing to fear from other alliances as a bonus. In the end all we see is faction battleships NPC'ing which makes your regions a pirate's heaven. That said, I personally don't mind since I realized my gaming hours are not enough to participate in 0.0 empires, but it does ruin the game in a way. Originally by: "Cy4n1d3" You can't PVP with 4 mids.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.03 01:47:00 - [87] Quote: That said, I personally don't mind since I realized my gaming hours are not enough to participate in 0.0 empires, but it does ruin the game in a way. This is a huge part of it... My main is in a 0.0 alliance, but finding the time to contribute in a meaningful way is a very difficult taskà You can't have an alliance full of half-assed part timers and expect to accomplish anything... That's what sucks about EVE, only the hardcore win... The more hardcore veterans an alliance has, the more powerful they are, has nothing to do with the total member count or number of outposts, etc... Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.03 02:19:00 - [88] Originally by: Ab Initio Edited by: Ab Initio on 03/01/2007 02:14:14 Originally by: DarkMatter That's what sucks about EVE, only the hardcore win... Hate to burst your bubble, but that is life I'm afraid. You will always lose to someone who is willing to put more effort into something than you are. Thats equivelant to saying that your place of employment sucks because people that work harder, and are willing to put more effort in, get ahead. Perhaps that is the case more in EVE than other MMORPGs because of it's free form nature. Actually, in RL there are plenty of ppl who work less, and make more, lol... Even where I work... Believe me; I'm not afraid of hard work, look at my sig. I just can't expend that effort on a game however, and that's the problem, it appears many in Bob can... I understand EVE is like a second job, and those who work hard get ahead, and those who can't play long hours don't... Guess that's the nature of the MMO beast... It still sucks though, as EVE as a relaxing pastime just doesn't seem to work no matter how hard you try... Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead
revan101 Caldari Odd Enterprises	Posted - 2007.01.03 02:24:00 - [89] Originally by: Reshei The BoB Victory over ASCN is yet another indication of just how poerful that alliance is. When we think about the reasons for their victory the situation with the game and its future become potentially bleak and unappealing. The main factor in BoB overcomming so many people, not just ASCN, is the fact that they have such a huge amount of money that it is frankly incomprehensible. Trillions of ISK are controlled by that alliance through their BPOs of tech 2 gear. Therefore, it is inevitable that they will overcome anyone that comes up against them. There is just no way that anyone else in the game can compete with that kind of raw financial might. It is raw financial might that won World War II and every other war that was ever fought. Patton was once quoted as saying "tactics win battles but LOGISTICS win wars". So are we looking at the takeover of the whole Eve world by one organization? The problem with this is that there is no way for anyone to compete with BoB. No matter how hard someone works, it is impossible for them to get the kind of raw resources that BoB has and CONTINUES to compile. The main reason for this is the fact that BoB ownes so many tech 2 blueprints and makes so much money off of them that "winning the lottery" hardly covers it. The reality of the situation is that this aspect alone means that no one else can compete. Lets face it. Invention is an utter flop. The promise of invention was that people that worked hard would be able to use invention and enter tech 2 production, thus driving down the price of tech 2 and the MONSTEROUS proffits the tech 2 BPO owners get. The reality is that the parts to do invention are so rare, difficult to get and once the last piece is actually seeded in the game in the complexes they will be camped 24/7 and likely by people like BoB. Something radical needs to shift in the economy of eve or the alliance wars, the conflict, the politics of the game are going to vanish behind a fleet of 200 BOB carriers and Dreadnoughts and Titans. Tech 2 blueprints have been the IDOCY of CCP. A policy that was il-concieved from the start and il-implemented. It is the most embarassing thing about Eve and the biggest threat to its survival. The implementation of invention is a PATHETIC attempt at resolving the problem. I sugest CCP do the following: 1) Seed the Tech 2 BPOs on the market 2) Control the prices by controlling the rarity of the moon mined minerals and other parts that are needed to create the items. 3) Put a little raw and advanced materials in all T2 gear to create compeditive market that no one can control as anyone even in high sec could moon mine the mins. 4) Switch invention to find out the faction versions of ships and modules in order to compensate for not getting tech 2 BPCs. If CCP doesnt get a handle on this sometime soon, Eve will eventually be Empire Space and BoB Space. People will be frustrated they cant get anywhere or build anthing. Alliances will disolve because they dont have the ABILITY to get the Trillions of ISK to compete and the game will lose its flavor of competition and thse competing. Without massive and RAPID changes to the game, the chances of anyone small being able to do anything will be near 0. And when BoB has taken all of 0.0 we can expect millions of war decs so they can take the rest of eve. Why am I posting on an alt? Simple. I dont want to incur the wrath of BoB either. One doesn't poke a stick in the foot of a giant that can crush you like an ant. uhh lil eve history lesson on allaice that die Ca die Fa die Nva die Sa die Xetic die Norad die All the major alliance die then comeback as new other alliances there nothing wrong alliances have been dieing since uhh the game began learn about eve history Alliances die all the time then reform then die then reform normally with a new name and region of space shush nublet
Shayla Sh'inlux Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.03 02:24:00 - [90] Edited by: Shayla Sh''inlux on 03/01/2007 02:25:49 Originally by: "Ab Initio" So your point is that people who put in minimal effort should be more successfull than those that are playing to win. It all makes sense now! I guess what he's saying is that the game would be a lot more fun for hundreds if not thousands of people if the hardcores were spread out a bit more instead of being piled up in one group. Originally by: "Cy4n1d3" You can't PVP with 4 mids.

DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.03 02:26:00 - [91] Edited by: DarkMatter on 03/01/2007 02:29:15 Originally by: Shayla Sh'inlux I think what he's saying is that the game would be a lot more fun for hundreds if not thousands of people if the hardcores were spread out a bit more instead of being piled up in one group. I think they will always band together though... For the most part... Like minded ppl working for a goal, etc... I just wish there were more than a small handful of those groups... To have so much territory, resources & BPO's in the hands of so few is just not good for the game... Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead
Allen Deckard Gallente LFC Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.03 02:30:00 - [92] I seem to remember 2 unstoppable alliances in the past 2 years. that------well-------sort of stopped. Anyone remember the alliance that seemed unstoppable with seemingly unlimited resources and more members than any 2 alliances combined that controlled the immensea and surrounding areas? The second is the alliance that distroyed them. Things come things go. When someone figures out how to take and area then without the pvp players "holding" the area and retaining interest in the area. Then someone will have figured out how to win eve. Right now a group of pvp players (big or small) get together. They start a war. They win said war cause they are all pvp. After the war has been won comes the controling the area thing. This is the fun boring as hell part. This is where the true dedicated pvp players get bored and move on leaving the alliance weak. Those that are "rich" are rich before they controled the area and after a short bit really dont have much interest in mining or ratting in the area. The last downfall of any alliance is leadership burnout. Do "you" really want to be responsible of a thousand to 4 or more thousand people not incuding allied non alliance corps and alliances to deal with every time you log in? Not having any relaxing game time after a hard days work? Most dont. Anyway things come things go things change. just the way it is. Kentucky where the goats roam and the rednecks run free
Prophet Jurah	Posted - 2007.01.03 02:31:00 - [93] Originally by: Kyria Timeyu You just have to look at Shadowbane to see that it is possible for a guild to just "win" the game and have nobody left to fight. On every server in Shadowbane, a year after release, there was one powerful guild that basically owned all the good places, a bunch of pet guilds that were allowed to coexist for paying taxes and weak non-pet guilds that made a living hiding their cities and hoping they wouldn't get noticed, because if they did, the big guild would just come and stomp their assets in an afternoon. Internal strife did exist, but whenever that came up, the main guild would stomp the splitters and be on their way again. And yes, that led to the death of the game because nobody pays $15 a month to farm money to build up a country only to have a bunch of losers tear it down as soon as it gets pretty enough to want it. /me points out that silent tribe, LoD and every other huge dominant guild was eventualy taken out when people got ****ed enough. Between us (VA) and our ally LoD we owned pretty much 3/4 of the map at one point. We owned the desert and they owned ice island, undead island and bits of the mainland. Near the end of the death server we were getting our asses handed to us. The mighty LoD keep even fell. Nobody is invincible. Eventualy anyone that gets big enough and steps on enough toes will have all the little guy's united against them. The death of the games was caused by lag so bad it makes jita look good, ass ugly graphics, tons of bugs and rampant exploiting. Big alliances had little to do with it.
Noriath	Posted - 2007.01.03 02:38:00 - [94] Originally by: Ab Initio Originally by: Noriath Life != Game So your point is that people who put in minimal effort should be more successfull than those that are playing to win. It all makes sense now! Nope, it means that as you spend more and more time in the game you spend less and less time doing other things. There is nothing wrong with that, but as soon as it becomes a requirement for success in the game you alienate everyone who can't spend that ammount of time playing. Simply put, the fact that some huge alliance full of people who play many hours a day, and can choose to play at any hour of the day can steamroll everyone who doesn't have that luxory makes the game less fun for those people. That isn't supposed to mean that someone who plays 2 hours on the weekends should be able to kick BoB out of 0.0, it just means that for the sake of the game the people who can achieve almost anything shouldn't use their power to make the game seem pointless to those who aren't es dedicated and free to play...
Cipher7	Posted - 2007.01.03 02:48:00 - [95] Originally by: Ab Initio Originally by: Noriath Life != Game So your point is that people who put in minimal effort should be more successfull than those that are playing to win. It all makes sense now! So you're saying what, that people on welfare who live in their mom's basement dominate Eve? Yep, makes sense to me.
Twin blade Minmatar The Caldari Confederation	Posted - 2007.01.03 02:51:00 - [96] BOB can't win for the simple reason no one allance can ever win EVE. There is what like 4000+ low sec systerms no one allance could ever hope to defend that much space. There is countless people ready to form a allance and go fight in low sec for there own space. So low sec is flooded none stop with new player's going in to low sec with no way to stop them. !
Thor Xian Vertigo One E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.01.03 03:02:00 - [97] Failure is the weakness of the enemy. BoB prevailed against ASCN because most of ASCN was worthless trash taking up space and resources. Basically, BoB is a 190 lb kick boxer and ASCN was a 300 lb Krispy Kreme Delivery Man...ASCN needed to get in shape and lose weight to beat BoB. Now ASCN lost weight at a dangerous rate, and cannot function any longer as a sovereign entity. ~Thor Xian, Material Defender "For all your Material Needs, Vertigo One." Corp/Alliance Services
Ab Initio Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.03 03:05:00 - [98] Originally by: Noriath Nope, it means that as you spend more and more time in the game you spend less and less time doing other things. There is nothing wrong with that, but as soon as it becomes a requirement for success in the game you alienate everyone who can't spend that ammount of time playing. Simply put, the fact that some huge alliance full of people who play many hours a day, and can choose to play at any hour of the day can steamroll everyone who doesn't have that luxory makes the game less fun for those people. That isn't supposed to mean that someone who plays 2 hours on the weekends should be able to kick BoB out of 0.0, it just means that for the sake of the game the people who can achieve almost anything shouldn't use their power to make the game seem pointless to those who aren't es dedicated and free to play... If you're just starting the game, and already feel that it's pointless playing because we won a war, this isn't the game for you. The part of this game we play in is about the creation and destruction of empires, politics, intelligence and war. If you honestly believe this game would be half of what it was without it's rich history, it's wars, the "forces of good and evil" (as corny as that sounds), you are kidding yourself. This isn't Sim City, and it isn't solitaire. You are playing EVE.
Ab Initio Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.03 03:10:00 - [99] Originally by: Cipher7 So you're saying what, that people on welfare who live in their mom's basement dominate Eve? Yep, makes sense to me. It's great that people always have that old gem to fall back on. It's much easier to explain away your failures in a game, by pretending that the enemy are failures in RL. Personally, I travel all over the world as a trainer, and management for a large company. The difference between a BoB member and you, is that I would be happy to login and take down a POS or whatever is needed of me while sitting in an airport waiting for the next flight. It isn't the hours we play (I probably play less than most), it's the dedication to our friends that we play this game with. Make fun of our RL as much as you want, it's always a good laugh.
Arenis Xemdal Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.03 03:12:00 - [100] DarkMatter, does Nebba know you are here?

DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.03 03:16:00 - [101] Originally by: Arenis Xemdal DarkMatter, does Nebba know you are here? What does that have to do with my opinions of the state of EVE, Sov, alliances, etc? Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead
Hellspawn01 Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2007.01.03 03:30:00 - [102] BoB being the end of eve? Come on Ship lovers click here
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.03 04:00:00 - [103] If you guys hate BoB so much why don't you just united with every one else and deal with it as I can fail to see how 1.3k people (not including alts) can rule a galaxy if you the players allow that to happen the you are failures. (also I stopped reading this post after the 2nd page as far as im concerend BOB = Paris Hilton (which means I don't give a damn how much attention you give her I still wouldn't touch her with a 10ft pole) Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -Marcus TheMartin
Nikla Uthaan Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.03 04:14:00 - [104] Edited by: Nikla Uthaan on 03/01/2007 04:14:16 Originally by: Marcus TheMartin If you guys hate BoB so much why don't you just united with every one else and deal with it as I can fail to see how 1.3k people Personal ambition. Oh, and as I mentioned elsewhere, people suck. I was part of a 3 man team in a web-based MMO, stock standard php game. From an equal startpoint each round, we remained undefeated for about 5 or 6 rounds. The final game I played, one of my mates lead a team (just FYI, it's a max of 3 players per team) which served to unify 4 other teams in the round, total 15 players. Combining espionage, creativity and a little bit of dissension instigation, we still comfortably defeated everybody. How? Personal ambition,,, sow a false seed of treachery and it spreads like a plauge till your enemy destorys themselves. In other words, people are too concerned about achieving for themselves than to unify against a greater foe. Personally, if the server decided to unify against BoB I would probably take up arms and fight FOR BoB rather than against ----------------- One word,, emo,,, The Mishing is an ethnic group in the districts of North Lakhimpur, Sonitput, Dhemaji, Dibrugarh, Sibsagar, Jorhat, Golaghat, Tinsukia of Assam.
EPSILON DELTA	Posted - 2007.01.03 04:18:00 - [105] /me <3 using alt to post apparently so does BoB who found a new tactic to boost their ego. because the alternative: a homosexual fanboy is just too much for my imagination.
Smoking Mirror Secret Interests Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.03 04:59:00 - [106] The biggest threats to BoB, in order, are: 1. Leadership burnout (and less competent leaders replacing) . . 2. RAAAGoons . . . 3. D2 + IRON And that's about it. If 2 and 3 hookup, then there might be problems. But then LV probably allies with BoB, effectively. BoB + LV + FIX > RAAAGoons, D2, and IRON. A Pax BoBa sometime in 2008/2009? Be interesting to see if they could pull it off. Seems unlikely. Entropy has a way of taking over.
Theonlystd Caldari Fly-By-Night Enterprises Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2007.01.03 05:04:00 - [107] Bah. Not the first Free Form PVP game i've played. And in those games "Unbeatable" Empire Arose. Then the poeple in that Empire quit,got bored of being "unbeatable" so it started falling apart or made enough poeple mad that the forces againist them where to great. Eve will be no different ------------------------------------------- Aye Spellcheck is beyond me along with propper grammer.
gfldex	Posted - 2007.01.03 05:08:00 - [108] This war was not a war against two entities but a war of different attitudes. BoB has the attitude of a player that sees and understands himself as a player. They watch themself doing moves in a game. This gives them the ability to spot and understand their weak points and rule them out. At the other side we had ppl that just played the game. Most of them use EvE as the most advanced chat client in computers history. No wonder that they failed to find good use for their superiour numbers and resources. This war was not won by tec 2 BPOs. It was not won by ISK. It was won by brains. -- $ perl -n -e 'print "Stop blameing pirates! Oveur is the root of all evil!\n" if m/podkill\|lost my ship\|gank\|gate camp\|Verone/;'
hangnoose Caldari DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.03 05:21:00 - [109] I haven't read all the replies, but T2 BPO's ain't the reason. The way I see it is... ( no offence to anyone ) Everyone in BOB ( or 95% anyways ) flies Tech 2 ships and use tech 2 weapons. On almost every ASCN loss mail, they are using T1 equip ment and have T1 fittings. BOB out damage, out range, and out skill them by alot. BOB is a pure PVP alliance ( even though they do have a pretty damn fine industry ) ASCN pretty much let anyone with anything in their alliance. BOB has fought alot of corps and alot of people. If I remember right alot of BOB's older members invented alot of pvp tactics we use ( Ex m00 members ). BOB has fought in many wars and has done so much. Like I said again ASCN took in many corps that have no experiance, and basically just leached. So you had a 1700 person alliance who all PVP, and have been PVPing for ever. Fighting a 4000 person alliance who many have never fired a gun at anything other then a belt roid or a belt rat.
Nikla Uthaan Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.03 05:21:00 - [110] Hmm,, non-sequitur but I was wondering why your name was familiar gfldex, we were allies once, then you tried to take out my indy when the alliance broke down and I was escaping 0.0 :) you didnt get there,, but the gatecamp at the end certainly did ;) ----------------- One word,, emo,,, The Mishing is an ethnic group in the districts of North Lakhimpur, Sonitput, Dhemaji, Dibrugarh, Sibsagar, Jorhat, Golaghat, Tinsukia of Assam.

Brunswick2 eXceed Inc. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2007.01.03 05:24:00 - [111] Edited by: Brunswick2 on 03/01/2007 05:25:16 Originally by: hangnoose I haven't read all the replies, but T2 BPO's ain't the reason. The way I see it is... ( no offence to anyone ) Everyone in BOB ( or 95% anyways ) flies Tech 2 ships and use tech 2 weapons. On almost every ASCN loss mail, they are using T1 equip ment and have T1 fittings. BOB out damage, out range, and out skill them by alot. BOB is a pure PVP alliance ( even though they do have a pretty damn fine industry ) ASCN pretty much let anyone with anything in their alliance. BOB has fought alot of corps and alot of people. If I remember right alot of BOB's older members invented alot of pvp tactics we use ( Ex m00 members ). BOB has fought in many wars and has done so much. Like I said again ASCN took in many corps that have no experiance, and basically just leached. So you had a 1700 person alliance who all PVP, and have been PVPing for ever. Fighting a 4000 person alliance who many have never fired a gun at anything other then a belt roid or a belt rat. Although that isn't true for all of ASCN, you're pretty much right. BoB, no matter what disagreements I might have with them over certain things, they are very skilled and experience at EVE. Some of them wrote the book on pvp and are extremely competant at what they're doing. --------------------------------- Bah, I broke my edited sig!
Noriath	Posted - 2007.01.03 05:44:00 - [112] Edited by: Noriath on 03/01/2007 05:44:49 Originally by: Ab Initio If you're just starting the game, and already feel that it's pointless playing because we won a war, this isn't the game for you. The part of this game we play in is about the creation and destruction of empires, politics, intelligence and war. If you honestly believe this game would be half of what it was without it's rich history, it's wars, the "forces of good and evil" (as corny as that sounds), you are kidding yourself. This isn't Sim City, and it isn't solitaire. You are playing EVE. I am neither just starting to play nor am I saying that it's pointless to play. The only thing I am saying is that any PvP heavy game runs the risk of alienating a good chunk of the community if it becomes completly dominated by an elite group that uses it's power to exclude more casual gamers from large portions of the games content. This game isn't half of what it is without rich history, wars, the forces of good and evil clashing, which is exactly why it is important that everyone can take part in that, and not be sent packing to empire because they don't have virtually unlimited time to devote to Eve. Sidenote: This doesn't even mean that BoB is trying to exclude people from 0.0 content, since obviously BoB has plenty of people living in their space who aren't hardcore PvPers.
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2007.01.03 06:12:00 - [113] Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 03/01/2007 06:14:37 BoB and the like is exactly the reason why i play eve. If they conquer everything, it will be even better. Like Star Wars, just with real players instead of braindead bots that have a description that says that they are evil. BoB is an Empire, and empires will fall. I dont know how many t2 BPOs BoB has, but i know at least 3 players who have easily 1t+ in t2 BPOs each. Anyway, if you dont want the actions of other people to affect you, play a singleplayer game. MMORPGs are not games, they are timesinks and chat clients. Eve at least has something besides the time sink aspect. BoB is a mighty force ... i see that as challenge.
Tachy	Posted - 2007.01.03 06:23:00 - [114] How did you say will BoB break up? They got power. They can wage war against whoever they want to keep things interesting for their members. They supply their members with tools that are mostly unavailable to others. Unless eomeone high up in BoB decides to grab most of the cash and at least half their BPO, nothing is going to change. And I don't think that would work because there are some mechanics in place for preventing people from grabbing the **** and make a run with it. If you're interested how that can end, check the political scene on Serenity and their subscribtion history. One to rule them all and make them leave for greener pastures. --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20
ProphetGuru Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.03 06:29:00 - [115] The sky is NOT falling guys sheesh. Look, half our success is straight up due to having the balls to set big goals for ourselves, and challenge ourselves to see if we can do it. Someday we might fail at one of them! (shock) and you know what? That's ok. We'll dust ourselves off, and try harder. Half the problem with the majority of the Eve playerbase, is they are so scared to fail, that they never even make an attempt to bust ourside of their box and try something epic. They either claim that it would be to hard.. or to much like work. (a certain corp plays this card all the time, to explain their mediocrity, but I won't mention any names) We on the other hand, say ... hell with it, we plan on owning everything. Maybe we will get there... maybe we won't ;) but you certainly can't say we aren't ambitious, or lack goals. [CLS] Bawldeux IV- start posting all kinds of crap about BoB members, insulting their families,friends,anything that will **** them off.
The Fates Perkone	Posted - 2007.01.03 06:38:00 - [116] I'm left to wonder that if ASCN had won the conflict if we would be seeing basically the same post by the OP? There is no doubt that this was an important war for both sides. I think its rather funny that most people here want to react as if this was purely ascn vs bob... as a lot of people know that's not the case, this has been building up for quite some time, resistance was on many fronts way before ascn ever came under any real attack, LV could have done more, ASCN could have taken their head out of their... you know. Lots of things went wrong, not all of which BoB or their allies can even take credit for. Even though this war that the OP is referring to was on a bigger scale than he seems aware, I still think he's jumping to a conclusion that is a little (perhaps a lot) far fetched. I tend to agree with the fact that gravity always wins, what goes up must come down, and all that jazz. There's two sides to that argument too, of course. ASCN had the doctrine of "We don't care about your space" and all that, and a quick study of history will of course tell you that is a fatal doctrine to follow. Endless expansion is generally fatal as well, admittedly though its a better strategy but flawed in the long run as well. In order to avoid gravity and stagnation, war must be controlled, and territory must change hands in a controlled fashion to give the impression of victory and defeat, with no side really gaining too large of an advantage. If the scale tips too far in either direction it falls over. That is one of my worries about our RL situation on the globe, that it has been stagnant for a long time, and it goes against logic to think that another large conflict will not be the result of that. @ Jasmine Constantine -> that was one of the best posts I've read on the forums in a long time. I hope YOU get involved in things at some point on a level where you can make a difference, on either side, with that level of understanding you most certainly should. To quote Rod Blaine: " ASCN was the theoretically strongest entity we have ever engaged in a serious war. Practically it turned out a bummer, which is at least partly due to our skill at 'total' warfare rather then the 'pistols at dawn' style that half of Eve's public seems to prefer. Anyway, they lasted ridiculously short for the amount of infrastructure and pure reserves they had lying around. PA lasted al damn lot longer, and that was without sovereignty to draw out wars artificially, with fewer numbers and a damn sight more fighting. Took us a year to win that one, and it was messier then this one by far. Anyway, yes, relative to the amount of resistance ASCN could have thrown at us this was a short war yes. But to conclude what the OP is concluding is slightly ridiculous. If T2 BPO's win wars then we should by all rights have lost this one. ISK is only one factor in a war, and it's not the most important by far, that's the real lesso from this war, not that BoB will kill all of you because of having a few tech2 bpo's. " EOQ While the OP's conclusion might be slightly ridiculous, this was a much longer war than Rod points out, I believe, unless you strictly only count the fighting directly between the two alliances. Many things that led up to that made that war a lot easier and drained such reserves imo. The 'total war' aspect is something that ... well, I'd say it but I'd be preaching to the choir. Originally by: My Best Friend You do realize, you could get a college education before you train all those skills?
ollobrains Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.03 06:39:00 - [117] BOB do set large goals the way they are run is testement to this the other alliances are more self centered and therefore more likley to fail ( plus bob is long term established whcih helps)
Wesley Price Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.03 07:17:00 - [118] As much as I dislike BoB (not hate, but dislike, its the smacktalking you do.) I must admit that it is their orginization that makes them deadly enemies. (Yes this is an alt, so sue me I'd rather not shaft myself or my corp because some hothead can't understand a statement for what it is.) ASCN very well could have defeated BoB. In the early phases of the war ASCN had BoB on a backwards footing, I know I was there. But failure to communicate, and the failure of intelligence on ASCN's part is what defeated them. BoB is an extremely powerful alliance. They make themselves so by very strict methods of recruitment that ASCN did not employ, this left one side deathly vulnerable to infiltration and far worse, poor players. BoB is not immortal, they CAN and WILL be defeated by someone who looks at the lessons of ASCN and puts them to good use. Fortunately for BoB, from the looks of it the people who have that ability are... well... in BoB. That takes care of BoB. Now to this actual post. You're complaining, that 100 guys can take over and control... what? 6 Regions? Effectively patrol, secure and use that space? No. You're complaining that these 100 guys have too much money? So what? On my main character a year and a half old I'm flat broke, the n00b who just joined 2 minutes ago? Yeah he's got more money than I do. Monstrous profits for T2 BPO owners? Well-duh, its called an economy, it doesn't work if there's nobody at the top of the pyramid there buddy. Anything else is called Communism, or Socialism, take your pick neither can work in EvE. EvE is a Capitalistic game, its built on the premise that work=money, the right work=lots of money. Money=fun. Therefor all you need to have fun in this game is to sit down, and actually think about how to make money. Me? I rat, I run missions, I make enough money to buy a nice ship throw some cool guns on it and get it blown up, that's my fun. Because that's what EvE is, a game. Nothing radical, if you do a giant radical shift in the economy all that's doing is removing someone from the top of the pyramid, and 20 minutes later some genius is gonna get right back on top. That's life, that ingenuity. Quit whining. Seeding T2 BPO's isn't gonna do squat other than make that Cerberus I really want a little bit cheaper. That's...it. Guess what bud, last time I counted BoB controls as much if not more space than all 4 Empire Factions, with more resources, and money than the 4 Empires could dream of. And you'll never see a 200 man BoB Carrier fleet, or 200 man BoB Dreadnaught Fleet, or 200 BoB Titan fleet. Because BoB for all their faults are a bunch of good tacticians. They understand the logistics behind waging a war and they also understand that 200 carriers, can't do squat against a group of suicide hyper-tanked Scorpions with smartbombs. 200 Dreadnaughts? I'll laugh as a blob of frigates overwhelm and kill them, 'cause Dreads can't hit a fast moving T1 Frigate. 200 Titans? What're you gonna do? DD a POS to death? Even with 200 Titans its impractical. No, Bob has achieved an effective fighting mixture in their forces, probably the best you can do with their current numbers. And all it would take to defeat them, is the right kind of organization. I personally view BoB as the Romans of EvE. They ain't the biggest, but their tactics are very very good. Now, if they cleaned up the smacktalk a bit I might actually start liking them... but that's their perogative and unlikely to happen... 'cause it is kinda funny sometimes... and sometimes it goes too far.
Shakuul Caldari The Imperial Commonwealth The Sundering	Posted - 2007.01.03 07:36:00 - [119] Originally by: Wesley Price Monstrous profits for T2 BPO owners? Well-duh, its called an economy, it doesn't work if there's nobody at the top of the pyramid there buddy. Anything else is called Communism, or Socialism, take your pick neither can work in EvE. EvE is a Capitalistic game, its built on the premise that work=money, the right work=lots of money. Money=fun. Therefor all you need to have fun in this game is to sit down, and actually think about how to make money. Me? I rat, I run missions, I make enough money to buy a nice ship throw some cool guns on it and get it blown up, that's my fun. Because that's what EvE is, a game. Nothing radical, if you do a giant radical shift in the economy all that's doing is removing someone from the top of the pyramid, and 20 minutes later some genius is gonna get right back on top. That's life, that ingenuity. Quit whining. Seeding T2 BPO's isn't gonna do squat other than make that Cerberus I really want a little bit cheaper. That's...it. You are correct that if you order everyone by income/net worth/whatever, someone will always be on top, but that has nothing to do with the economy. The problem with the T2 market is that there is no ingenuity; its just like printing isk. T1 is much closer to perfect competition (often the ideal situation for consumers and the economy in general), since entry is easy (BPOs can be purchased by anyone). Its funny that you say in EVE work=money. The two most profitable activities in EVE, trading and T2 manufacturing, require the least work.
Noriath	Posted - 2007.01.03 08:00:00 - [120] Tech 2 Economy is unfair because it isn't based on who makes the best effort, it's based on who gets lucky. It doesn't support the princibles of capitalism that are the basis of Eve, it's artificial monopolies that can't be broken, can't be atacked, and simply have no good reason to exist. Tech 2 BPOs are the single worst factor in Eve. The Tech 1 economy is being killed by 3 things: Core systems that are overrun with people usually have the lowest prices, because selling there isn't more expensive then in a backwater system. Wealthier systems should have higher taxes so that selling somewhere else becomes more viable. You can't see who sells an item on the market unless you buy it, and even then you might just get the name of a market alt. Essentially all production and distribution can be done anonymously. Tech 1 Items don't need to be manfactured by playercorps, but can be created by individual characters or in noobcorps, making it impossible to war people over market controll. But that has nothing to do with this thread really. Just saying, tech 2 BPOs should be availible similarly to tech 1, and the flaws in the tech 1 system that don't allow dedicated people to take controll over an industry should be removed, then we'd have a serious economy...

Paladineguru Gallente DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.03 08:08:00 - [121] ROFLMAO wow molle has you guys so snowed. The plain truth. Bob isnt the biggest. Bob doesnt have all the good pilots. Bob doesnt have anything anyone else couldnt get with work (with the exception of a few tournement prizes, and knowing them theyll sell one eventually) Bob definetly doesnt have all the t2 , or half the owners i know would have to be liars. a lot maybe , all hell no. while bob has fine tacticians, they dont have all of them or even necessarily even the best ones. what bob does have. is unity. unity of purpose, unity of strategy. unity of its team players. if you really want what they have. thats thier key every player knowing thier place and being truly dedicated to thier goals. simple hmm the hardest things always are.
CamMan Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.03 08:22:00 - [122] Originally by: Reshei ... rabble rabble rabble ... this is one of the most idiotic posts i have ever ever read, and i have read a few of them. In summary it says "I didnt get a T2 BPO so i will blame BoB". And then it has some "cry, cry, cry" in there. Just to clarify for Reshei the rabbleraiser, 1) ASCN were supposedly bigger industrialists then BoB, so your whole arguement falls over there. 2) BoB dont sell their T2 items or equipment so how does the T2 BPO's make them trillionaires again? 3) putting T2 BPO's on market and making the moon based minerals the restricting factor would just further empower the big 0.0 alliances, which opposes what your whole rabble is on about. So to summarise Reshei is basically just a clueless alt. Originally by: Bender Interesting, no the other one ... tedious
Rhedea Final Crusade Enterprises	Posted - 2007.01.03 08:31:00 - [123] Edited by: Rhedea on 03/01/2007 08:32:23 n/m Hunter~Trader~Thug
Krychton Blood Inquisition Sani Khal'Vecna	Posted - 2007.01.03 08:32:00 - [124] Edited by: Krychton on 03/01/2007 08:33:50 Originally by: Reshei The BoB Victory over ASCN is yet another indication of just how poerful that alliance is. When we think about the reasons for their victory the situation with the game and its future become potentially bleak and unappealing. You know what makes BoB so powerful, its not their mass wealth, not their pilots. Its you. People coming on here gloryfying them like their the only alliance pushing their wieght around. People like that make themselves their own worst enemy. If I can get someone to doubt themselves, to make them think that I'm unstoppable, then I already beat them. ----
Gothikia Revelations Inc. Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.03 08:33:00 - [125] bob gives good sex. more than enough reason for them to kick about... ascn didn't put out... they were as much fun as margaret thatcher on a cold day _________________________ I really should get a bloody sig...
Switchbl4d3 iii	Posted - 2007.01.03 08:48:00 - [126] a b0b fred how uncanny
gfldex	Posted - 2007.01.03 08:49:00 - [127] Edited by: gfldex on 03/01/2007 08:52:53 Originally by: Wesley Price BoB is an extremely powerful alliance. They make themselves so by very strict methods of recruitment that ASCN did not employ, this left one side deathly vulnerable to infiltration and far worse, poor players. You Sir won the forum for this week. Originally by: Wesley Price BoB is not immortal, they CAN and WILL be defeated by someone who looks at the lessons of ASCN and puts them to good use. Fortunately for BoB, from the looks of it the people who have that ability are... well... in BoB. And you even got the 2nd price. What a shame that you cant post with your main. -- $ perl -n -e 'print "Stop blameing pirates! Oveur is the root of all evil!\n" if m/podkill\|lost my ship\|gank\|gate camp\|Verone/;'
Helen Tranter	Posted - 2007.01.03 09:25:00 - [128] Edited by: Helen Tranter on 03/01/2007 09:25:43 Originally by: DarkMatter Originally by: Helen Tranter My First Rant I have kept my keyboard silent throughout the war against Bob, but would just like to say this with out diss'ing the good PvP's. The Motto going around BOB and its Slave Corps at the start of the war was " ANITHING GOES". This means they used any tactic ingame and out of game to gain an advantage, they know the rules and know what rules to break before there players get band. This is a sad fact and only detracts from there win and will stain any Bob player in the eyes of Eve's community weather they are part of these tactics or not. The fact that CCP has allowed this to take place is there failing and Eve's loss. Ex ASCN PS: Plz bare in mind that the original poster of this thead is BOB Out of game tactics? Like what? Spamming our TS with music and other noise, personal char attacks on ASCN players on the forums etc If CCP allowed a list of ingame band charecters to be published on the forums you would I am sure see the extent of the tactics used by BOB and there policy of TOTAL WAR!
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2007.01.03 09:33:00 - [129] Originally by: Helen Tranter Edited by: Helen Tranter on 03/01/2007 09:25:43 Originally by: DarkMatter Originally by: Helen Tranter My First Rant I have kept my keyboard silent throughout the war against Bob, but would just like to say this with out diss'ing the good PvP's. The Motto going around BOB and its Slave Corps at the start of the war was " ANITHING GOES". This means they used any tactic ingame and out of game to gain an advantage, they know the rules and know what rules to break before there players get band. This is a sad fact and only detracts from there win and will stain any Bob player in the eyes of Eve's community weather they are part of these tactics or not. The fact that CCP has allowed this to take place is there failing and Eve's loss. Ex ASCN PS: Plz bare in mind that the original poster of this thead is BOB Out of game tactics? Like what? Spamming our TS with music and other noise, personal char attacks on ASCN players on the forums etc If CCP allowed a list of ingame band charecters to be published on the forums you would I am sure see the extent of the tactics used by BOB and there policy of TOTAL WAR! Nice allegation.. Proof Mr ASCN Alt ?? PWYM Alliaanna Please note i'm no BoB fanboi, I cant stand ANY alliance tbh, I think your all blobbers and suck BUT, For the love of god why cant people just post with their mains !! Is it that scary that everyone will know what you think about others DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Helen Tranter	Posted - 2007.01.03 09:35:00 - [130] Personal experiance

Sartaron Amarr Circle of Violence	Posted - 2007.01.03 09:40:00 - [131] As soon as BoB will conquer most of EVE, I will join the Resistance. And I will have more fun, than I ever had.
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2007.01.03 09:49:00 - [132] Edited by: Alliaanna Dalaii on 03/01/2007 09:55:57 Originally by: Helen Tranter Personal experiance Wow thats really convincing evidence coming from an alt Alliaanna Edit - My bad, mebbe your not an alt and your a TNT chap ? No idea I'm not in front of a client. However your evidence is urrr... non exhistant DNC Treasure Hunt !!
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.03 09:58:00 - [133] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 03/01/2007 09:58:28 I remember when people said the Curse Alliance would take over the whole of Eve and destroy the game. Even before then, people had claimed that TTI had already won Eve. Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori It's great being Amarr, ain't it?
UGWidowmaker Caldari Setenta Corp Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.03 09:58:00 - [134] ya bob won eve, gratz. i do agree that t2 sucks and the fct that ccp dont do anything about it SUCKS... dont blame bob for using the tacticas posible ingame.. blame ccp for ruining the game with the way t2 is going... ccp should do something about this instead of saying nothing... any person who pays for the game should have a FAIR chance at gettting a bpo t2 or t2 bpc... atm they dont... I will make your wife/mann a widow.
Helen Tranter	Posted - 2007.01.03 10:02:00 - [135] Edited by: Helen Tranter on 03/01/2007 10:03:20 Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Edited by: Alliaanna Dalaii on 03/01/2007 09:55:57 Originally by: Helen Tranter Personal experiance Wow thats really convincing evidence coming from an alt Alliaanna All Give us all a break trying to spam about why I am posting with my Main Industrial Empire char instead of my PvP char, will not detract from what I have Stated I experianced in the game.
Hesed Hamartia.	Posted - 2007.01.03 10:03:00 - [136] Everytime an alliance dies, all the new and surviving ones get a little stronger.
Noriath	Posted - 2007.01.03 10:08:00 - [137] People claiming that BoB isn't so tough are just as wrong as people claiming that BoB is invincible. That's the real magic of it, have half the people so convinced they can't beat BoB and the other half so convinced they can that nobody acctually bothers to fight before its too late, and nobody bothers to help if someone gets atacked...
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.03 10:09:00 - [138] Edited by: Marcus TheMartin on 03/01/2007 10:15:07 Wait are you telling me the reason this isn't on the soap opera forums is because he hinted at a t2 bpo monopoly in the op guh Also Nerf Alt posts I swear if some conspiracy theorist wants to show the galaxy he's a crazed idiot let the galaxy see that his main is a crazed idiot instead of his privacy shield Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -Marcus TheMartin
Everbane Underworld Enterprises	Posted - 2007.01.03 11:10:00 - [139] Originally by: Noriath People claiming that BoB isn't so tough are just as wrong as people claiming that BoB is invincible. That's the real magic of it, have half the people so convinced they can't beat BoB and the other half so convinced they can that nobody acctually bothers to fight before its too late, and nobody bothers to help if someone gets atacked... What he said... 1, 2, Freddy's Coming For You 3, 4, Better Lock Your Door 5, 6, Grab A Crucifix 7, 8, Better Stay Up Late 9, 10, Never Sleep Again
Angry Sheep Amarr Aur0ra	Posted - 2007.01.03 11:19:00 - [140] Bad ideas really. not thought through the results of the change to making the ores rare and not the bpo's, BUT at least you offered an alternative. still a no from me. alliances dont own BPO's corps do. Break a corp break an alliance. It's a Dog eat Dog World out there and I'm wearing Milky Bone underwear

Kagura Nikon Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2007.01.03 11:24:00 - [141] Lol the OP doesnt even know who was the real "winner"of WW2 (and i mean by so the one that defeats germany.. not the much much much less dangerous japan empire) Its brute force, passion and the abdication of all the self interests to support the corp/country that finnaly wins wars. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Verus Potestas Caldari The I-Win Button	Posted - 2007.01.03 11:28:00 - [142] Originally by: Helen Tranter Spamming our TS with music and other noise FFS, we've been over this so many times. That had NOTHING to do with BoB, and a list of the players who did it has already been posted on the damn forums. --- In third-party forums we trust Did i ask for anyone to copy this into their sig? No, ****heads, its my text, not yours.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2007.01.03 11:31:00 - [143] Originally by: Sartaron As soon as BoB will conquer most of EVE, I will join the Resistance. And I will have more fun, than I ever had. some day... maybe that would go to storiline :) a great battle between concord an Bob eventually :) If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.03 11:36:00 - [144] Edited by: DarkMatter on 03/01/2007 11:41:25 Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 03/01/2007 09:58:28 I remember when people said the Curse Alliance would take over the whole of Eve and destroy the game. Even before then, people had claimed that TTI had already won Eve. Yes, but the game changed too much for them to continue as is... Will CCP ever change the game to the point Bob can't function as they do? I don't think so... I'm more fearful for the game than I am fearful of getting beat by someone who is stronger, that's part of the game after all... I don't have a problem losing as long as I know I did the best I could. I just think alliances should be controlling constellations, not multiple regions. And it's too late for CCP to change that IMO... Alliance outposts span great distances with very empty space in-between that no one can access due to choke points. Lot of wasted 0.0 space IMO. I don't like the blobbing of the map into 3 or 4 big alliance chucks. It's akin to if instead of the cold war/arms race, the USA & USSR decided conquest & territory was the way to go, and wound up owning/controlling 90% of the landmass on the planet... Diversity will make EVE a much better game, not a few alliances owning all of 0.0 space... No sir, I don't like it, but it's not Bob's fault, it's CCP's. Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.03 11:41:00 - [145] Having all the isk in the game and the best weapons and ship's are useless without dedicated pilot's to fly them. Isk is iirelevant, passion and determination win wars imo. I know it probably seemed like a good idea to start another bob thread but couldn't you have added this to an already existing thread, there getting a bit silly now in number and it's noteven us posting them
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.03 11:44:00 - [146] Quote: Having all the isk in the game and the best weapons and ship's are useless without dedicated pilot's to fly them. It certainly helps now doesn't it? Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead
Shayla Etherodyne	Posted - 2007.01.03 11:44:00 - [147] Originally by: Darius Shakor ...lot of good reasoning.... Back to the first sentiment... boooooring. CCP don't have to 'get a handle' on this. The problem will end with natural reactions. Internal strife and a lot of bored people who realise why they are bored and turn on each other. Your reasoning is right, but there is a mayor problem. BOB will reach the implosion point before or after that the control of most of the non empire systems by that alliance has alienated a great percentage of players? The empire mission runners probably will stay, but all the others?
Locus Bey	Posted - 2007.01.03 11:49:00 - [148] BoB hasn't won EVE, far from it. Yes their the major power in EVE, but do they control it, no... Until BoB controls all of 0.0, and Empire they haven't won. And even if they did control all of EVE that would still make EVE an exciting game to play. The larger BoB grows, the more vulnerable it will become imo.
Jacque D'eath	Posted - 2007.01.03 11:52:00 - [149] One thing that has been overlooked in this discussion to date is the future plans for Sovereignty which would make defence of any 0.0 "Empire" much easier. - Gate Guns - Constellation sovereignty - Inability to Cyno into other sovereign territory etc. Once these come in all it takes is for the alliance controlling the most space to set up the appropriate defences to free up their fleet. Assaulting an area held like this would be MUCH harder. These will allow for a smaller fleet to effectively protect a much larger space. How does this impact BoB? û well, with ASCN virtually gone BoB will hold more space (valuable space) than anyone else, this gives greater resources to draw on for any assault on a smaller sovereign space, any conquered space then gets built up and added to the existing fortress creating an upward spiral of greater resource protecting more and more valuable assets. The slave corps will be able to hunt and get fat in the absence of player gank squads which canÆt get past the gate defences and these corps will of course be expected to defend anything which does get into their territory until BoB can show up. I canÆt see anyone else mustering the resource to shift BoB once these defences become available, they would have to have large and extremely well co-ordinated fleets and ***** the static defences even before hitting the BoB fleet and then moving onto PoS, Stations etc. All the while BoB can be locking down their other systems and still building resource. . . . . I guess time will tell
Na'Kunni Amarr Warped Mining	Posted - 2007.01.03 11:54:00 - [150] Edited by: Na''Kunni on 03/01/2007 11:53:52 Concord(NPC)/Polaris(Player) = EVE If any allaince can take on them an win, they win EVE? Originally by: Xenofur Everyone wants to kick you in the nuts until your voice is stuck at the pitch of a japanese schoolgirl for the rest of your life.

Cipher7	Posted - 2007.01.03 11:57:00 - [151] Edited by: Cipher7 on 03/01/2007 11:58:35 double post
Cipher7	Posted - 2007.01.03 11:58:00 - [152] Originally by: Ab Initio Originally by: Cipher7 So you're saying what, that people on welfare who live in their mom's basement dominate Eve? Yep, makes sense to me. It's great that people always have that old gem to fall back on. It's much easier to explain away your failures in a game, by pretending that the enemy are failures in RL. Personally, I travel all over the world as a trainer, and management for a large company. The difference between a BoB member and you, is that I would be happy to login and take down a POS or whatever is needed of me while sitting in an airport waiting for the next flight. It isn't the hours we play (I probably play less than most), it's the dedication to our friends that we play this game with. Make fun of our RL as much as you want, it's always a good laugh. Yeah I guess that's what we all lack, dedication. BoB is just uber like that. Yall got superior genes. I mean the rest of us are just logging in to sit in our hangar and eat Krispy Kreme. I'll let you get back to your super successful life, I mean you must have a supermodel waiting for you in bed or something.
Gericault m0id Contention Inc	Posted - 2007.01.03 12:08:00 - [153] Edited by: Gericault m0id on 03/01/2007 12:11:07 The power in BoB is not merely economical. I don't have any insider information but my understanding is that ASCN mustered equal or perhaps even greater economic might. BoBs strength comes from unity and brilliant leadership and it is only helped by a big T2 library. If you want to destroy BoB you either need great PvPers that can sink the egos of their BoB counterparts (D2?). Or you need to break them from within; guerilla warfare. Have you ever ventured into Period Basis, Delve or Fountain? You can easily get a few BoB and/or pet-corp kills if you're careful and a quick runner. That way you can break their morale (hopefully). Edit. I envisage thousands of regular eve-players infiltrating BoB space, shooting easy targets and escaping all BoBs err... I mean Blobs
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.03 12:08:00 - [154] Originally by: Jacque D'eath One thing that has been overlooked in this discussion to date is the future plans for Sovereignty which would make defence of any 0.0 "Empire" much easier. - Gate Guns - Constellation sovereignty - Inability to Cyno into other sovereign territory etc. Once these come in all it takes is for the alliance controlling the most space to set up the appropriate defences to free up their fleet. Assaulting an area held like this would be MUCH harder. These will allow for a smaller fleet to effectively protect a much larger space. How does this impact BoB? û well, with ASCN virtually gone BoB will hold more space (valuable space) than anyone else, this gives greater resources to draw on for any assault on a smaller sovereign space, any conquered space then gets built up and added to the existing fortress creating an upward spiral of greater resource protecting more and more valuable assets. The slave corps will be able to hunt and get fat in the absence of player gank squads which canÆt get past the gate defences and these corps will of course be expected to defend anything which does get into their territory until BoB can show up. I canÆt see anyone else mustering the resource to shift BoB once these defences become available, they would have to have large and extremely well co-ordinated fleets and ***** the static defences even before hitting the BoB fleet and then moving onto PoS, Stations etc. All the while BoB can be locking down their other systems and still building resource. . . . . I guess time will tell This is why IMO, CCP goofed, and made it too easy for alliances to hold so much space. The changes to SOV will make the existing alliances 1000X harder to supplant than they currently are... They really goofed on the POS/moon mining stuff. That required alliances to need to control entire regions to have advanced reaction chains, etc... I'll reiterate, alliances should be operating on the constellation level, not regional level. However the resource distribution (ore, moons, ratting, plexes, etc) does not allow for that... Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead
Electric Cucumber Amarr coracao ardente Sani Khal'Vecna	Posted - 2007.01.03 12:12:00 - [155] did ASCN players stop playing? no!
Cipher7	Posted - 2007.01.03 12:13:00 - [156] Originally by: Noriath Tech 2 Economy is unfair because it isn't based on who makes the best effort, it's based on who gets lucky. It doesn't support the princibles of capitalism that are the basis of Eve, it's artificial monopolies that can't be broken, can't be atacked, and simply have no good reason to exist. Tech 2 BPOs are the single worst factor in Eve. Luck is part of capitalism SIR. Some people get born rich. Everybody is dealt a different set of cards, its what you do with them that defines you. We have enough communism/socialism in RL, we dont need it in Eve.
Verus Potestas Caldari The I-Win Button	Posted - 2007.01.03 12:13:00 - [157] Originally by: Electric Cucumber did ASCN players stop playing? no! CYVOK did --- In third-party forums we trust Did i ask for anyone to copy this into their sig? No, ****heads, its my text, not yours.
MMXMMX Caldari Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.01.03 12:13:00 - [158] If u realy think BOB wil win eve . Then start to get all non BOB pilots to work together and start to grab some 10/10 complexes back :) As long as we wil not fight together against them i dont see a problem . Or the BOB problem is not big inuf yet .
Torze The Arrow Project The ARR0W Project	Posted - 2007.01.03 12:22:00 - [159] Well, whether BoB takes over all of Eve or falls apart under their own weight, I have alot of respect for what they have accomplished in Eve. I think people need to think of some of the ways that BoB has been GOOD for Eve. For one, we get these wonderfully entertaining threads. :) The panic over BoB is really kind of funny. I'd start worrying about them 'taking over all of Eve' when maybe they were say...halfway there..or 75%. As far as, CCP wanting them to win...whatever. Too many whiners that complain that they got beaten by better players. What does BoB do best...besides being unified which someone already mentioned..but, they adapt. The history of the founding corps in BoB is very very long. You want to beat BoB, then plan. It's not something that could happen overnight, it would take probably over a year but, it could be done. I'm sure being a member of the North, I'll run acrossed BoB someday and, I'll be turning my guns on them. I can tell you that, well, they'll be shooting back and we'll have fun. That's what the game is all about. At the end of the day, I'd be able to say, hey, I was podded by (insert name here) Just as back in the day, I went after Lord Zap and ended up back in a cloning vat in Kisogo
Ormen Tuttle	Posted - 2007.01.03 12:22:00 - [160] Edited by: Ormen Tuttle on 03/01/2007 12:23:49 Empires rise and falls--usually from within. If BOB should take over the universe and had no more external enemies the quest for power within would soon have it at war with itself. Eve is about power--economic power, political power, and military power. The quest for power never ends--even when and if one empire dominates the world. Finally, there are ways to deal with large empires by means with less resources and out right military power--witness Vietnam and the current situation in Iraq.

Ab Initio Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.03 12:25:00 - [161] Originally by: Noriath Tech 2 Economy is unfair because it isn't based on who makes the best effort, it's based on who gets lucky. Some things to consider here.. 1. Bob doesn't really sell it's T2 gear on any large scale. We use it ourselves. This means it brings us limited income (and is more often than not traded when it does leave our alliance). 2. Do you really think that out of the massive amount of EVE subscriptions, the 1500 BoB players win all the BPOs via the lottery? It's a massive effort to build up the resources required to obtain the T2 BPOs we do.
Tachy	Posted - 2007.01.03 12:26:00 - [162] BoB over time soaked up quite a few very good and well organised PvP corps and pretty good solo PVPers on top of their already good military core. With each decent war, they grabbed some more. These groups are supported by a really strong industrial backbone, not to mention a a very nice set of T2 BPO and a couple of highly lucrative complexes. --==*-- The cause for this is not yet known, but we do have a possible fix in testing. by Sharkbait \| 2006.09.20
Cipher7	Posted - 2007.01.03 12:28:00 - [163] This is my final post on this retarded thread. What BoB has that other alliances don't is a purpose. They have a reason for existing. They're here to wage jihad and conquer the Eve universe, that is their STATED PURPOSE. The other big alliances exist to exist, they nap each other and just sit there taking up space.
blanked Caldari Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.	Posted - 2007.01.03 12:30:00 - [164] OMG! Bob have the spending power of the united state of america, OMG America _always_ wins everywar they fight. OMG president Bush is Blacklight. OMG ISK > EVEYTHING oh yeah oh my god and stuffs Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.03 12:30:00 - [165] Edited by: DarkMatter on 03/01/2007 12:31:10 Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: Noriath Tech 2 Economy is unfair because it isn't based on who makes the best effort, it's based on who gets lucky. It doesn't support the princibles of capitalism that are the basis of Eve, it's artificial monopolies that can't be broken, can't be atacked, and simply have no good reason to exist. Tech 2 BPOs are the single worst factor in Eve. Luck is part of capitalism SIR. Some people get born rich. Everybody is dealt a different set of cards, its what you do with them that defines you. We have enough communism/socialism in RL, we dont need it in Eve. He is right when he says the T2 lottery is the biggest CCP blunder. It breaks risk vs. reward rule so damn hard, it's amazing CCP lets it continue... They do so because they are afraid of T2 becoming common. When computer hardware manufacturers make a new product, how long does it stay for the elite only? How long does new car manufacturer tech stay elite? How long does television/communications tech stay elite? It doesn't! I think US military tech stays elite for less time that T2 gear! I hope there is no T3 lottery, just reverse enginerring from here on out... Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead
UndergrounD Caldari Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.03 12:48:00 - [166] Its not the isk, BPO's or assets. Those are just a by product. What they have is determination, and that is the key. -----------------------------------------------
Darla Lockdown	Posted - 2007.01.03 12:50:00 - [167] Originally by: Rod Blaine PA lasted al damn lot longer, and that was without sovereignty to draw out wars artificially, with fewer numbers and a damn sight more fighting. Took us a year to win that one, and it was messier then this one by far. BoB did not win over the PA. Actually it was THE FIVE.
Alexandros Onisos Gallente EAGLE Independent Fleet Corporation Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.03 12:57:00 - [168] No way. First of all, as said above, BoB does not just recruit everyone. They have high standards so its not like their ranks will inflate. Also, this Galaxy is HUGE. BoB owns only a handful of the systems available. It's not going to happen.
Alliaanna Dalaii Gallente Does Not Compute	Posted - 2007.01.03 13:03:00 - [169] Umm if BoB hold every region I think you can assume given BoB member numbers that the regions would be a lot like Fountain Ie... Not theirs at all On the other hand, If BoB did own all of Eve's 0.0... Cool !!! Roll on le resistance Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
subvert	Posted - 2007.01.03 13:06:00 - [170] it comes down to this: a poorly designed tech 2 system. Most powerful items in the game, being T2 BPOs, the ability to print ISK at will, was introduced in an incomplete flawed system. the only thing worse than that introduction was that it has stayed in unchanced, as if it's a matter of pride and not wanting to admit a mistake. risk vs reward? nope, best items get handed out at random with no effort and the mechanics dictate ISK printing ability with no risk and no effort. BoB what? yes BoB has BPOs, probably some ccp people too, but Im not complaining about BoB. BoB isnt broken. T2 lottery is. am I off topic? sure, but +1 T2 complain post and gg, good day sirs

Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.01.03 13:06:00 - [171] Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Edited by: Alliaanna Dalaii on 03/01/2007 09:55:57 Originally by: Helen Tranter Personal experiance Wow thats really convincing evidence coming from an alt Alliaanna Edit - My bad, mebbe your not an alt and your a TNT chap ? No idea I'm not in front of a client. However your evidence is urrr... non exhistant When I was in RKK smack talk was prohibited. I think it highly unlikely they would resort to spamming anyone's TS server. Then again RKK is only one part of BOB and it had it's own flaws. Declining to assist in training could be excused but some of the industrial requests made of me and friends were silly. I wish BOB well but I am certain that once they have no decent enemies left to fight the alliance will fragment and crash. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] Linux is only free if your time is worthless
Freaky Bare Minmatar Blueprint Haus Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2007.01.03 13:11:00 - [172] I have the inside scoop: BOB is actually run by a group of rogue CIA agents. They are using Eve as a proving ground for tactics furthering their true goal - the eventual domination of Earth's governments. Seriously, BOB will never take over Eve. They will not TRY to take over Eve. They appear to play for the CHALLENGE of destroying their enemies. I assume once ASCN has been mopped up they will find a new opponent. If they ever get to the point that there is no challenge in their fights - they will do something about it. The sky is not falling, Chicken Little. I am not an Alt, I am punctuation.
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2007.01.03 13:12:00 - [173] 07-07-07. Thats the date BoB will cease to be. 07-07-07. Remember this date. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Beetle Boy Minmatar Gentlemen O'Fortune	Posted - 2007.01.03 13:23:00 - [174] now i have nothing against BoB BoB = The Roman Empire Now boys and girls what happened to the Roman Empire?
Jernau Gurgeh Gallente	Posted - 2007.01.03 13:35:00 - [175] Originally by: Beetle Boy now i have nothing against BoB BoB = The Roman Empire Now boys and girls what happened to the Roman Empire? It morphed into the Byzantine Empire and lasted for over a thousand years? There are 10 sorts of people in the world - those who understand binary, and those who do not.
Fester Addams Minmatar	Posted - 2007.01.03 13:36:00 - [176] BoB is indeed big and powerfull, does that meen they will take over everything? Well if they do then we will all be BoB and BoB will split into smaller groups as there is noone to fight. EvE by this time has a history, BoB did not exist as BoB at the start but was formed after quite some time, the alliances that came before BoB were very powerfull to and many BoB people were in one or other of them. Why did the old alliances die? Very few were destroyed by an outside force such as another alliance, most were torn apart from the inside. This will happen to BoB too, a war going bad may expediate this split but it is never the real cause of it. Good on ya BoB for beating ASCN! The big question now is: Are you now powerfull enough to open upp a section of 0.0 for the new players to play and learn in?
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.01.03 14:04:00 - [177] Edited by: Andrue on 03/01/2007 14:04:41 Originally by: Jernau Gurgeh Originally by: Beetle Boy now i have nothing against BoB BoB = The Roman Empire Now boys and girls what happened to the Roman Empire? It morphed into the Byzantine Empire and lasted for over a thousand years? Yup. Also it's alphabet is still in use (we are all using it to post here). Several modern languages are descended from the one Roman citizens used. Scientists and medical practitioners still use its language. Several modern influential countries like the UK and the US operate a legal system derived from the Roman one. America even has a Senate - guess where that name comes from? But...we aren't Roman -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] Linux is only free if your time is worthless
Kagura Nikon Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2007.01.03 14:10:00 - [178] Well I can agree that there is a slight chance of it becoming areal problem, but then the easiest anwer is to gang up a stroung enough alliance of alainces to bring up balance. Even market warfare, deny acces to certain stuff by trying to reach monopoly etc... its not easy to tumble a giant. CCp wont do anything by themseves unless it start to reach their pockets. And they are already heling when inserting new regions. Wiht more and more space its harder to get everything under control of a single group. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Pete Tosh	Posted - 2007.01.03 14:13:00 - [179] whoaa this is a veritable sweaty BOB ball licking fest.
Wild Rho Amarr Black Omega Security	Posted - 2007.01.03 14:13:00 - [180] Edited by: Wild Rho on 03/01/2007 14:16:26 Originally by: DarkMatter This is why IMO, CCP goofed, and made it too easy for alliances to hold so much space. The changes to SOV will make the existing alliances 1000X harder to supplant than they currently are... They really goofed on the POS/moon mining stuff. That required alliances to need to control entire regions to have advanced reaction chains, etc... I'll reiterate, alliances should be operating on the constellation level, not regional level. However the resource distribution (ore, moons, ratting, plexes, etc) does not allow for that... I also think insta jumping is a significant factor. The ability for a fully combat fitted BS group to traverse the full length of Eve in an hour with no real problems makes controlling larger areas much easier since it reduces the need for organised logistics (having supply depots of ships and mods near key areas etc) as well as reduces the need to organise where pilots are going to operate (jump cloning also contributes here but at least has a 24 hour delay limiting its use in deployment situations). EDIT: I don't agree with the melodrama of the OP, plenty of reaons why no one entity can control all of Eve, but I do think it's a little too easy to control whole regions and changes coming in only makes it easier. I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.

Clogs'R'us Caldari Cheesy Poofs	Posted - 2007.01.03 14:24:00 - [181] Originally by: Reshei 1) Seed the Tech 2 BPOs on the market And what happens to the smaller corps that are dependent on the income a Tech 2 BPO brings in? These are corps that could one day challenge Bob or any other alliance?
Harisdrop Gallente ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.03 15:02:00 - [182] Who is this BoB you speak of? I remember "What about Bob?" movie with Bill Murray. He seems kinda strange. baby steps..... Anyway I hope all your scary forecasts and predictions come true and BoB tries to take over the game. FUnny thing is that its a game. A game you cant win. You dont have to win. You can stop playing for a month come back and play like never before. New NPC NPC Market
adriaans Amarr The Sirius Cybernetics	Posted - 2007.01.03 15:14:00 - [183] winning a war don't make you the conquerer of the world... --sig-- Knowledge is power!
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2007.01.03 15:23:00 - [184] Wow, another BoB thread. changes the channel ---------------------------- Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY WTB: Friggin' portrait
JINX HSC Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.03 15:30:00 - [185] Brian Boru and hes shadow will win eve.. - KLADDKAKA -
Iva Soreass Deadly Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.03 15:59:00 - [186] IBTL ! I like bob, but cmon so much of this bs on the forums its old already. Change the channel this **** gets very boreing very quick. ----------------------------------------------- "Your momma is so fat, BoB thought she was a region and took her!"
Sumayyah Minmatar Dynamic Endeavors	Posted - 2007.01.03 16:05:00 - [187] If everyone was really worried about bob they would all sign a pact to join up to bring down BOB. I'm an ! I will always be an ! that is all I have to say But thats not all!!! Dynamic Endeavors is now Recuiting.!! Contact Jet Collins in game.
Ikoh	Posted - 2007.01.03 16:26:00 - [188] Edited by: Ikoh on 03/01/2007 16:26:56 Originally by: Sumayyah If everyone was really worried about bob they would all sign a pact to join up to bring down BOB. So lets assume you get an alliance large enough to take BoB on. Lets assume this massive alliance has what it takes to beat them and does so. You are now in a situation where an alliance is in total domination of 0.0 EVE. How is this any better than BoB doing it? Why should some other aliance do it instead of Bob?
Noriath	Posted - 2007.01.03 16:46:00 - [189] Originally by: Cipher7 Luck is part of capitalism SIR. Some people get born rich. Everybody is dealt a different set of cards, its what you do with them that defines you. We have enough communism/socialism in RL, we dont need it in Eve. That really doesn't apply in Eve, there is no such thing as copyright laws and patents protecting people who have blueprints, they can hand out advanced military hardware to everyone who can afford it, but that braindead BPO system keeps the secrets of how to make it out of everyone elses hands regardless. There is nothing in place that really keeps people from just stealing the designs for a tech 2 item except for the fact that somehow you can throw a high tech device on the free market, have everyone buy them and still expect to be the only one who can make it a day later. That's just stupid. I mean maybe the empires have some kind of patents so unless you have an original blueprint you can't sell there, but that sure as hell wouldn't keep ye olde pirate corperation from reverse engineering the item... Besides, unlike in real life, when the wealthy screw you in eve you're not supposed to just take it up the you know where, you're supposed to kill them and take their stuff.
Sumayyah Minmatar Dynamic Endeavors	Posted - 2007.01.03 16:47:00 - [190] Originally by: Ikoh Edited by: Ikoh on 03/01/2007 16:26:56 Originally by: Sumayyah If everyone was really worried about bob they would all sign a pact to join up to bring down BOB. So lets assume you get an alliance large enough to take BoB on. Lets assume this massive alliance has what it takes to beat them and does so. You are now in a situation where an alliance is in total domination of 0.0 EVE. How is this any better than BoB doing it? Why should some other aliance do it instead of Bob? I didn't say aliance I said pacht. Many Aliances join a pacht to take down BoB once BoB is gone they brake the pacht and start killing each other again duhhhh. I'm an ! I will always be an ! that is all I have to say But thats not all!!! Dynamic Endeavors is now Recuiting.!! Contact Jet Collins in game.

Freaky Bare Minmatar Blueprint Haus Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2007.01.03 17:07:00 - [191] It is very true that warp-to-0 has changed the bounds of territory tremendously. It has made it possible to run a fleet a considerable distance in a short time. This does help defend an Empire. Warp-to-0 has also opened wide gaps into 0.0. Stopping entry into 0.0 now requres a warp bubble. It is virtually impossibe to stop any reasonably intelligent player from running through a gate-camp without 1. It is also much easier to scout opposing areas, for this same reason. This is just another of the things influenced by warp-to-0. For better or worse - and I mostly like it - it has changed 0.0. I am not an Alt, I am punctuation.
Professor Poontang	Posted - 2007.01.03 19:02:00 - [192] Just wait for ccp to toss them the factional warfare bone, that'll grant them immortality. Edit* I just saw Darius's post after posting/ No suprises thats what they are lobbying for.
Suze'Rain	Posted - 2007.01.03 19:45:00 - [193] Originally by: Jim McGregor Ever heard what happened to the Roman Empire? the leaders of bob will start having suspicious stains on their togas and their PR writer will be known as Juvenal... their titan will burn while they play the fiddle... one of them will elect their favorite battleship to the senate... kick their own alt to death, and sleep with their mother... then they will have a fleet of brutusahem brutix stab them in the back.... while everyone else sits in empire going "what've BoB ever done for us, eh?" and form alliances called the "popular peoples front of jita" and "the Jita popular people's front"? sorry. had to be said :)
Soporo	Posted - 2007.01.03 19:55:00 - [194] Edited by: Soporo on 03/01/2007 19:56:53 Good for them. Bad for the small man. Yes, T2 BPO lotto is retarded, wonder what will happen when T3 rolls around (in a few YEARS). shrugs The thing that trips my trigger is the fact that DEV's are in Alliances and actively involved in the game at all. Whether they use any special knowledge to get one up or pass this on to friends is beside the point. It's the PERCEPTION that a group of Dev's are active in the game and in large Alliances... it taints everything the Alliance might accomplish, and just leaves a bad taste lingering. null Quote: then they will have a fleet of brutusahem brutix stab them in the back.... You should be thrown to the lions for this...
Alerce	Posted - 2007.01.03 20:29:00 - [195] So if the Bobbies win eve I, can we then finally get EVE II and a better way with research?
The Wizz117	Posted - 2007.01.03 20:45:00 - [196] bob taking over whole eve? they must have no life at all! and how can we kill somting that has no life? ------------------------------------------- That ccp created a universe doesen't mean they'r gods
Shi Mun Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2007.01.03 21:44:00 - [197] If thou art afraid of big bad bob, then let us band together and destroy the common enemy! --------------------------- HAHA! your jammers suck now! Oh wait whats happening to my scorpion...
Xaintrix The Shadow Order The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2007.01.04 00:27:00 - [198] I don't know about anyone else, but despite that big huge chunk of color I see on the soverignty map... they haven't impacted me playing the game and having fun. It COULD get bad... but could isn't what it is now or even in the near future. There a lot of things that "COULD" happen. The whole Nostradamus thing though is a bit tired. :) "I'm left to wonder that if ASCN had won the conflict if we would be seeing basically the same post by the OP?" What a lovely point made. Gold star for you! ^_^
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.04 00:48:00 - [199] Originally by: Suze'Rain Originally by: Jim McGregor Ever heard what happened to the Roman Empire? the leaders of bob will start having suspicious stains on their togas and their PR writer will be known as Juvenal... their titan will burn while they play the fiddle... one of them will elect their favorite battleship to the senate... kick their own alt to death, and sleep with their mother... then they will have a fleet of brutusahem brutix stab them in the back.... while everyone else sits in empire going "what've BoB ever done for us, eh?" and form alliances called the "popular peoples front of jita" and "the Jita popular people's front"? sorry. had to be said :) You win this thread -----------------------------------------------
xOm3gAx Caldari Stain of Mind	Posted - 2007.01.04 02:06:00 - [200] Edited by: xOm3gAx on 04/01/2007 02:09:03 Originally by: Major Stormer OP is a idiot. Many people including myself will fight to the last stand against BOB. Nothing in eve lasts forever. They called Curse Alliance unbeatable, they called ASCN unmoveable. Look at them now. Well what happend with the CA was we started fighting ourselves and spreading to thin... We became the roman empire so to speak... at least thats how i see it and once us pvp'ers left the CA fell pretty quick. Originally by: Bawldeux IV Edited by: Bawldeux IV on 02/01/2007 23:05:57 wow, ASCN fought for over 3 months, and people still think it was a fast war. ASCN was huge, was forced to take on BoB...it lost due to deadweight and traitors...not due to the lack of trying by the pilots that fought day in and day out for 3 months....what other alliance can claim a war that long against a group of pvp'ers such as BoB....none can. The CA fought SA for over a year =P Not to mention many other alliances at the same time including XETIC/FSA/the old FIX if i remember right and occasionally the PA though towards the end we allied with them. And the CA in their time was on teh save level as bob is now though albiet smaller due to dif's in playerbase ;) Same thing though. ---------------------------------------- "Mercinaries never die, we just go to hell to regroup." -xOm3gAx '99 Currently Accepting Contracts contact xOm3gAx ingame.

Aknot Wat	Posted - 2007.01.05 07:55:00 - [201] There was never a doubt in my head that BoB's controlling player base are either CCP employees or close friends of theirs. And look, it makes total sense. You have to give the player base the "sense" of controlling their own fate, shaping the world of EvE. Makes for great marketing. A successful business model this does not make. They have to be able to control and shift the game in a way that keeps the model going. More so then they lead on with those "player events" and "nerfing". They need more diret yet passive methods of player control. A super alliance like BoB is the perfect way to do that...transparently. So it's useless to complain about such things. I look at BoB like any of the NPC corps. It's just there and that's the what it is.
MuthaTrucka Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2007.01.05 08:18:00 - [202] Originally by: Aknot Wat There was never a doubt in my head that BoB's controlling player base are either CCP employees or close friends of theirs. And look, it makes total sense. You have to give the player base the "sense" of controlling their own fate, shaping the world of EvE. Makes for great marketing. A successful business model this does not make. They have to be able to control and shift the game in a way that keeps the model going. More so then they lead on with those "player events" and "nerfing". They need more diret yet passive methods of player control. A super alliance like BoB is the perfect way to do that...transparently. So it's useless to complain about such things. I look at BoB like any of the NPC corps. It's just there and that's the what it is. Wow I need my Tech 2 Tinfoil Suit made from "NEW" "WITH MORE SHINE" Tin Foil.... --------------- Don't Call me a Carebear, I don't really care about much at all.
Sin Xiang	Posted - 2007.01.05 09:38:00 - [203] Originally by: Aknot Wat There was never a doubt in my head that BoB's controlling player base are either CCP employees or close friends of theirs. And look, it makes total sense. You have to give the player base the "sense" of controlling their own fate, shaping the world of EvE. Makes for great marketing. A successful business model this does not make. They have to be able to control and shift the game in a way that keeps the model going. More so then they lead on with those "player events" and "nerfing". They need more diret yet passive methods of player control. A super alliance like BoB is the perfect way to do that...transparently. So it's useless to complain about such things. I look at BoB like any of the NPC corps. It's just there and that's the what it is. do you wear a tinfoil hat at home? are you seriously that paranoid? Even IF CCP saw a need to have some element of controll in EVE greater than what they do, do you really think they'd need to infiltrate BoB? i mean c'mon, dont you read backstory during down time? hitsory repeats. i seroulsy dobt we'ed ever see teh day were BoB dominates 0.0 to this exent but if it ever became neccisary BoB would fall the way of the Ammaran Empire.... someday the Jovians will get cramped for space and send a Mothership after BoB, hell probably just a cruiser. THATS how CCP retains influence. but at teh end of the day theres a .01% chance of that ever being neccisary
Kari Moltov Amarr The Forsakened Companions Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.01.05 09:40:00 - [204] To the OP: You've taken two discrete topics and tried to stick them together with some kind of glue you've just made. Having a lot of isk / decent tech II BPO's in this game does not equate to being able to dominate militarily. It just means you have funds to fall back on if your forces are depleted / BPO's to produce new ships. You're comments are misguided and your conclusions are wrong. ASCN was a very rich alliance, however it didn't "win". BoB are good because they fight well. They do better because when they lose they can afford it. For them, they don't lose enough to run out of isk, ASCN did by the sounds of things.
ollobrains Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.05 10:24:00 - [205] BOB have been going 3 years. THey make a good size of ISK from PVPing and conquest. THey have a solid backup of materials, resoruces etc etc to fall back upon. They charge renter alliances that use their conqueored space large amounts of ISK for access and to be left as blue. They are dominant PVP,industrial and organised organisation that much is sure. D2 is their only main rival as well as RA but they are much smalelr and have made their ISK on plex farming.
CDS Leader Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2007.01.05 10:27:00 - [206] Originally by: Kari Moltov BoB are good because they fight well. They do better because when they lose they can afford it. For them, they don't lose enough to run out of isk, ASCN did by the sounds of things. ASCN did not run out of isk - ASCN members did. Nobody knows where ASCN's alliance asset stocks are, and these stocks are probebly some of the largest of any alliance. Join Eve Forum Warriors Free Wardecs on Alliances! A Pirates Dream!
Ikoh	Posted - 2007.01.05 10:43:00 - [207] Originally by: Sumayyah Originally by: Ikoh Edited by: Ikoh on 03/01/2007 16:26:56 Originally by: Sumayyah If everyone was really worried about bob they would all sign a pact to join up to bring down BOB. So lets assume you get an alliance large enough to take BoB on. Lets assume this massive alliance has what it takes to beat them and does so. You are now in a situation where an alliance is in total domination of 0.0 EVE. How is this any better than BoB doing it? Why should some other aliance do it instead of Bob? I didn't say aliance I said pacht. Many Aliances join a pacht to take down BoB once BoB is gone they brake the pacht and start killing each other again duhhhh. Ah its all clear to me now
MellaRinn Veto.	Posted - 2007.01.05 11:12:00 - [208] "I'll be back!!!" /me goes to prepare revolution against BOB once we all get suppressed in Empire space and 0.0 alike \o/ Click
ArmagedonLT Amarr Blood Sweat and Tears	Posted - 2007.01.05 11:17:00 - [209] bob have balls, that's all.
subvert	Posted - 2007.01.05 11:28:00 - [210] bob have t2 BPOs, thats all

Nostradamu	Posted - 2007.01.05 11:29:00 - [211] Originally by: CDS Leader ASCN did not run out of isk - ASCN members did. Nobody knows where ASCN's alliance asset stocks are, and these stocks are probebly some of the largest of any alliance. Wrong. Some of us do know where the stuff went, and what its currently being used for, instead of what it was meant to be used for. Yes, look to where the fingers were pointed the last time this happened.
Aphotic Raven Gallente E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.05 11:31:00 - [212] Reshei is now a confirmed Cryvok alt... you do realise bob doesnt have that many members right? and only a small ammount of corps right? You also realise that ASCN is (was?) an alliance filled with a lot of carebearish types and did have some good PVPers but not enough... they learnt a lot during the war but the fact remains that BoB is very tightly knit... and very strong in PVP... whether you see them as a friend or foe you should at least acknowledge that they are good. BoB is smallish in number and keeps it that way by choice. If you really think they're going to take over eve this week check out the map.... it would not only take a lot of work on their part to take even a largish chunk of it but holding it would be impossible as they would be stretched to thin. Now get back to work mining for your next titan tis probably about time i said that these are my views and do not represent my alliance or corp in my sig... also i enjoy the way that this whinge about bob morphed into a rant about t2.... seeding more BPOs wont really help... no... 90% of bpos arent held by bob... and t2 crap is still available.. it just costs too much for now. Give CCP a few months to fix invention (wtf were they thinking.......) and then go nuts on the forum.
subvert	Posted - 2007.01.05 11:35:00 - [213] Originally by: Aphotic Raven Reshei is now a confirmed Cryvok alt and just how did your confirm this?
JadeO Caldari W.A.S.P	Posted - 2007.01.05 13:22:00 - [214] woah... from 8 to 80... jeez! ______________ Looking for a good signature, logo, website layout? EVEMail me!
Iyanah Minmatar Mining Munitions and Mayhem	Posted - 2007.01.05 13:34:00 - [215] Originally by: Reshei It is raw financial might that won World War II and every other war that was ever fought. actually it was the unpreparedness of the wehrmacht for the harsh russian winter, and the millions upon millions of russian soldiers hurling themselves at the german army that LOST the war. combine that with the D-Day landings opening a second front on the already thinly streatched german forces, and you've got a disaster on your hands. logistics did win that war, but not who had more money, but how the german forces did not have enough fuel, and supplies, and how they were spread so thinly over the vast space that is the russian stepes. also Vietnam was not won by financial might, the US army had one of the most powerful economies in the world in their hands, and they still lost (sorry, were forced to withdraw). my point is, money doesn't always mean you win. it's numbers, it's tactics, and sometimes it's just shear balls of steel that wins teh day. logistics is not who has the fattest wallet, it's who can get the right resources to the right place at the right time. all wars boil down to getting one man with one gun and one bullet into the right place at the right time. ========================================== Iy
Ralara Caldari Reunited O X I D E	Posted - 2007.01.05 13:41:00 - [216] I had to LOL at the OP. There's a number of things wrong with it that I'm sure have already been covered in the OP. One thing that's always amused me about people complaining about BOB is that the way the posts are written, it's almost as if people see BOB as a person. BOB wants this, BOB wants that. Bob has this, BOB this, BoB that. Really, they are six corperations - they have hundreds of players, they are not simply one entity with one voice and one mind. Next is this idea that BoB wants to take over all of 0.0 space. I'm pretty sure they don't. They've stated they have laid claim to all of 0.0 space - yes - but this is a joke. They say it because they (see, even I'm refering to BoB as an entity here) know it will annoy people and get them thinking BoB is teh ebil!11oneone. Does BoB have a lot of money? Yes. Does BoB have a lot of T2 BPOs? Well, I'm not sure. For some reason they wont give me access to their lock-down hangers ;) And BoB as an alliance, I doubt has the BPOs. It's more likely owned by a very select few within BoB and I would guess most of them use them for themselves, to sell on the market. I really do doubt that the alliance controls the majority of BPOs and only uses them for themselves. Then there's this insufferable idea that BoB is run by the Eve Developers. The oldest playing Dev chracters don't really play eve any more. I believe Ouver has said this a couple of times - they don't have the time to play. And what is this silly theory and where did it come from? They're the DEVS. If they wanted to have a tech 2 item and to cheat, they'd simply add it into the database at downtime. But they don't do that. If I thought for a minute that the Devs use "alts" in BoB and abuse their positions to get rare items, I'd have left the game a long time ago. To anyone who whines about BoB cheating and all that - get a life. They are simply better than you. It's no more simple than that. I can imagine that when a thread like this gets posted, their directors are all having a chuckle on Team Speak about it. "oh look, here's another one. Apparently this time we steal babies and turn them into food." etc. If you want to be like BoB - join BoB. If you want to defeat them, then simply kill them. If you are too scared to do either, then don't whine about it. -- Yeah, so Caldari suck at close range. Pity you'll never get there. These posts represent those of my corp or alliance. These do reflect official alliance or corp views This is not a dis
Queen Hades	Posted - 2007.01.05 13:43:00 - [217] Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Edited by: Jasmine Constantine on 02/01/2007 23:21:45 Popular anti BoB uprising? Ain't going to happen while the people BoB are annhilating are just as bad as the big bad BoB itself. Who has any sympathy for a 0.0 alliance that gets rich shooting everyone and greedily hoarding its resources and then suddenly gets kicked around the room by the arrival of a bigger bully? Nobody thats who. Absolutely true, 100% true. I hate BoB and I fear the day they control all 0.0 space because then we all can either work for RKK wealth or grind missions in empire. No, thanks. But I hate D2 as much as I hate BoB - and I guess most people feel the same. D2 are not as big as BoB, but they are alike when it comes to brutality and malice towards neutrals.
James Duar Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.05 13:48:00 - [218] I think I saw this thread a year ago when ASCN still existed.
Cheyenne Shadowborn Caldari Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.01.05 14:13:00 - [219] Originally by: Jim McGregor Ever heard what happened to the Roman Empire? What? BoB destory that too? -- [21:54:01] BaroteToo > cheyenne shadowborn is an ore theiving dead puke if I catch him
Cheyenne Shadowborn Caldari Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.01.05 14:17:00 - [220] Originally by: Gone'Postal The romans tried it... The ***'s tried it... The Empire against Apostrophes in Pluralism obviously only tried* it, too -- [21:54:01] BaroteToo > cheyenne shadowborn is an ore theiving dead puke if I catch him

Herculite Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.05 14:49:00 - [221] BoB killed my cat, stole my cattle, and had forced sexual relations with my horse. When I applied to BoB they told me I had to eat a live kitten to prove I was evil enough to join. I could only eat half so they said no. They then stole my ship. The OP needs to post with his emo ascn main.
Vladikov Orrico	Posted - 2007.01.05 15:12:00 - [222] No alliance is that large or powerful... Ppl have learned it in the past and it is a lesson they will learn again in the future. All it takes is someone with an alt and the patience and skill to spend a year or more working their way into the core of the alliance. Trust is a powerful thing...and betrayal is another. The larger an alliance grows, the more of each they will have. Implosion is the future of any alliance, and it just takes that one infiltration to incite change. Once an alliance starts to crumble, ppl will flee for safe haven and the promise of protection and new ISK. Just give it time...change does not happen overnight.
Helen Tranter	Posted - 2007.01.05 15:34:00 - [223] I will say again BOB used in game rule bending and more importantly out of game tactics such as personal attacks and disruption of ascn's TS (playing music etc) and faking killmails, and alot of other stuff that I had no personal experiance of. This is what they set out to do and they called it Total War. What is sad is I don't see this being stopped just like the isk farmers in Eve. I am not flaming Bob just stating a fact, if it was not BOB it would have been someother allience doing this. Its Eves loss and CCP's failer and will kill eve off if nothing is done to control this style of gameplay. The Dev's should take a good long hard look at this issue and GM's should Not try to solve this problem by pushing one or another allience against Bob. GMs should judge not interact in eve's gameplay!!
Buzzmong Gallente Raptus Regaliter Pride - Honor - Duty	Posted - 2007.01.05 15:43:00 - [224] Anyone remember stain? The fairly large alliance that had what was essentially a civil war and split up? It will happen eventually to BoB. Someone, somewhere, will go "Hey, I'm fighting and fighting for something else, a cause that isnt mine....I want something for myself!". --------------------------------- Member of Raptus Regaliter
Jas Dor	Posted - 2007.01.05 15:43:00 - [225] BoB "won" because they generate billions of ISK a week by selling access to "their" space to Chinese farmer corps. The entire ASCN war bought and paid for by varius RL farmer companies that wanted access to the space/to cut out some competiton. Welcome to EvE the first game that farmers have been able to bar most of the game from content then sell the drops.
Furious George Amarr Evolution	Posted - 2007.01.05 15:59:00 - [226] George runs through this thread nekkid except for a tinfoil hat... on his head.
Herculite Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.05 16:07:00 - [227] Ironicly I get snipped for trolling in a thread that is nothing but a flamebait started by an alt. If BoB stays their current size they will be constantly fighting to control what they have currently. If BoB gets bigger they will fracture. Lets pretend something really impossible happened and every major pvp corp and alliance 'joined' BoB. Ok now 'BoB' controls all of 0.0. How long do you think that will last? Oh and to one of the above posts. ISK sales had nothing to do with the death of ASCN, at least not on BoB's part. While many ASCN members went broke, ASCN as an alliance spent almost nothing on the war.
BoBoZoBo Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.01.05 16:16:00 - [228] Originally by: Xori Ruscuv Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 02/01/2007 22:29:56 owever, they had fewer people to make that money with (than did their enemy). Do you know what that tells us? It tells us that BOB was simply more unified/dedicated to their cause, skilled in their attacks, and had better tactics and logistics. That aside, there are other alliances that have their share of T2 BPOs. (Edited for clarity) Ditto - BoB is just an organized group of people who are quite dedicated to this game. It is as simple as that. They have thier shit together and some people dont like that.. . oh well. ========================= Minister of Propaganda* - Operator 9
Kagura Nikon Minmatar The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2007.01.05 16:19:00 - [229] Originally by: Iyanah Originally by: Reshei It is raw financial might that won World War II and every other war that was ever fought. actually it was the unpreparedness of the wehrmacht for the harsh russian winter, and the millions upon millions of russian soldiers hurling themselves at the german army that LOST the war. combine that with the D-Day landings opening a second front on the already thinly streatched german forces, and you've got a disaster on your hands. logistics did win that war, but not who had more money, but how the german forces did not have enough fuel, and supplies, and how they were spread so thinly over the vast space that is the russian stepes. also Vietnam was not won by financial might, the US army had one of the most powerful economies in the world in their hands, and they still lost (sorry, were forced to withdraw). my point is, money doesn't always mean you win. it's numbers, it's tactics, and sometimes it's just shear balls of steel that wins teh day. logistics is not who has the fattest wallet, it's who can get the right resources to the right place at the right time. all wars boil down to getting one man with one gun and one bullet into the right place at the right time. finnaly someone that read a real history book. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Nostradamu Clandestia	Posted - 2007.01.05 16:42:00 - [230] Originally by: Herculite Oh and to one of the above posts. ISK sales had nothing to do with the death of ASCN, at least not on BoB's part. While many ASCN members went broke, ASCN as an alliance spent almost nothing on the war. Correct. The vast majority seems to have been kept back for a very specific task.

Kylania Gallente Phoenix Industries	Posted - 2007.01.05 16:50:00 - [231] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Iyanah Originally by: Reshei It is raw financial might that won World War II and every other war that was ever fought. logistics did win that war, but not who had more money, but how the german forces did not have enough fuel, and supplies, and how they were spread so thinly over the vast space that is the russian stepes. finnaly someone that read a real history book. Allied technology did a lot to win the war as well, especially at sea. During 1942 the German U-Boat forces were on the brink of bringing the Allied cross-Atlantic covnoys to a halt which would have doomed the defense of Britain and the leadup to D-Day. However incredible advancements in Radio Detection, Radar and Sonar and intense training and experience of Allied air and sea convoy escort sailors brought the Kriegsmarine to it's knees. Not to mention the breaking of the Enigma codes which let Allied commanders know every move the Axis was making and the Axis' poor tactical choices. Perhaps we need upgraded ECM to defeat BoB! -- Lil Miner Newbie Skills Roadmap \| How to Build from a BPO
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.05 16:54:00 - [232] I don't visit the political forums much, but generally, how long does it take these stupid BoB threads to die? Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead
Nostradamu Clandestia	Posted - 2007.01.05 17:09:00 - [233] they don't, they just morph into another thread that then becomes a bob thread.
Herculite Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.05 17:39:00 - [234] Originally by: DarkMatter I don't visit the political forums much, but generally, how long does it take these stupid BoB threads to die? Page 8 or 9 if its just a normal bob thread, but with the extra alts on the general forum, this one goes to 11.
Rakor Tang Minmatar The Jinxed Inc	Posted - 2007.01.05 17:59:00 - [235] Originally by: Sergio Ling BoB Win War ERGO BoB Win Eve ERGO BoB Buy 51% of shares in CCP ERGO BoB introduces Elves to Eve ERGO Everyone rolls shaman LMFAO To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy themselves. Sun Tzu
Ralara Caldari Reunited O X I D E	Posted - 2007.01.05 18:01:00 - [236] Originally by: Helen Tranter I will say again BOB used in game rule bending and more importantly out of game tactics such as personal attacks and disruption of ascn's TS (playing music etc) and faking killmails, and alot of other stuff that I had no personal experiance of. If you have no personal experience of it, how can you accuse them of it? What evidence do you have? etc. -- Yeah, so Caldari suck at close range. Pity you'll never get there. These posts represent those of my corp or alliance. These do reflect official alliance or corp views This is not a dis
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.05 18:08:00 - [237] There are some absolute classic posts in this thread, it's intensely amusing. I could pick some of the above posts to pieces and highlight some of the common misconceptions but it's funnier just to let it run. Thanks for the entertainment and enjoy your time in BoB Online. Blog
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2007.01.05 18:11:00 - [238] Originally by: Furious George George runs through this thread nekkid except for a tinfoil hat... on his head. A thread winnar is you. Now move this to Corp/Alliance forums, please. This is not general discussion, and I need my daily laughs at people whining about macro miners (which, incidentally, this thread has) ---------------------------- Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY WTB: Friggin' portrait
Raven DeBlade Caldari Bladerunners Mordus Angels	Posted - 2007.01.05 18:17:00 - [239] Originally by: Bawldeux IV Edited by: Bawldeux IV on 02/01/2007 23:05:57 wow, ASCN fought for over 3 months, and people still think it was a fast war. ASCN was huge, was forced to take on BoB...it lost due to deadweight and traitors...not due to the lack of trying by the pilots that fought day in and day out for 3 months....what other alliance can claim a war that long against a group of pvp'ers such as BoB....none can. PA fought BoB for well over 14 months... its called "Great Northern War" for a reason. "To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees"
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.05 18:23:00 - [240] So if BoB doesn't have the greatest number of DEV alts in it, which alliance does? Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead

Starfury Shang Pod Radio	Posted - 2007.01.05 18:29:00 - [241] A way to reduce the ISK stockpile is to bring in new tax's with the next Kali release. The more money/assets an alliance has the more tax it pays. Or it could be based on the amount of soveriegnty an alliance has, (number of systems controlled / number of POS's deployed / number of outposts owned or deployed). I haven't fully worked through the pro's/con's and workability of it. I am very tired with looking after a newborn so don't flame me if you think its a bad idea. Just a thought.
DarkMatter Amarr Mineral Aquisition Group	Posted - 2007.01.05 18:33:00 - [242] Originally by: Starfury Shang A way to reduce the ISK stockpile is to bring in new tax's with the next Kali release. The more money/assets an alliance has the more tax it pays. Or it could be based on the amount of soveriegnty an alliance has, (number of systems controlled / number of POS's deployed / number of outposts owned or deployed). I haven't fully worked through the pro's/con's and workability of it. I am very tired with looking after a newborn so don't flame me if you think its a bad idea. Just a thought. I think that will be part of the NPC security system, gate guns, NPC patrols for your alliance, etc... Newest toy for my 63 acre sandbox Building the homestead
Alotta Fagina	Posted - 2007.01.05 19:03:00 - [243] Originally by: DarkMatter So if BoB doesn't have the greatest number of DEV alts in it, which alliance does? BoB... no secret there, never have been a secret never will be a secret.
TheFirstInquisitor	Posted - 2007.01.05 19:13:00 - [244] I read pages one and 9... I laughed a bit to be honest, and lets think of it like this. Bob works hard, plays hard, earns good capital and is wise in its reinvestment, ergo T2 market. If you lot of nubbin whiners dont like BoB, then go band together to make your own alliance/corp to take the fight to BoB. If you lose (likely) it is because noone wants to join you, has better things to do or arent smart enough to think long term and out-manouver BoB. No,I am not an alt, just a chap finding the whole BoB/rest of EvE releationship highly amusing. Note to all, What I say may be infact of a more humorous tone than comes accross.
The Fates Perkone	Posted - 2007.01.06 04:25:00 - [245] I'm quite sure some of the funny things you read and some of the misinformation is also quite intentional. Let's not forget that the control of public opinion and the disemination of (mis)information is part of a war effort. Quoting Helen: "" I will say again BOB used in game rule bending and more importantly out of game tactics such as personal attacks and disruption of ascn's TS (playing music etc) and faking killmails, and alot of other stuff that I had no personal experiance of. This is what they set out to do and they called it Total War. What is sad is I don't see this being stopped just like the isk farmers in Eve. I am not flaming Bob just stating a fact, if it was not BOB it would have been someother allience doing this. Its Eves loss and CCP's failer and will kill eve off if nothing is done to control this style of gameplay. The Dev's should take a good long hard look at this issue and GM's should Not try to solve this problem by pushing one or another allience against Bob. GMs should judge not interact in eve's gameplay!! "" First of all reliance upon TS for communication is a bad thing. I'm not saying that TS is not a useful tool, but if you can't function without it, or you are seriously disrupted by its misuse then you have a serious problem who's remedy is not whining. Disinformation such as faking killmails and other tactics that you refer to as out of game are quite common and something that you will need to be prepared to deal with in the future. It will happen again, and not just from BoB or EvE. It only takes something important on the line for everything to become fair game in a total war scenario. Isk Farming has been dealt a serious blow, mineral prices, stocks, and the current attitude of manufacturers is a good indication. Demand has gone up a little, but supply has gone down by a lot more. I don't really think you came to complain about macro miners, tho, did you? Perhaps you are one that thinks GM's should never get involved, but they will. You can beg, you can plead, you can ask for the world to be the way you wish for it to be... but that will never work. You must make changes to the way you operate to stand a chance, and if you read between the lines here it has already been said more than once, perhaps not as clearly as I'm stating it... The time for peace... has come to an end. Revelations 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. Originally by: Napoleon Bonaparte Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and myself founded empires; but upon what did we rest the creations of our genius? Upon force.
CrestoftheStars Deviance Inc SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.06 04:52:00 - [246] an excelent solution to the t2 bpo which have been so much trouble.
CrestoftheStars Deviance Inc SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.06 05:00:00 - [247] emm... come on tell me... how do you outmanouver a market that is limited to those who is already there?! i would really like to see you come up with an idear to outmanouver lets say t2 production..... what will you do?! use invantion... lol... or t1 market :P heh Originally by: TheFirstInquisitor I read pages one and 9... I laughed a bit to be honest, and lets think of it like this. Bob works hard, plays hard, earns good capital and is wise in its reinvestment, ergo T2 market. If you lot of nubbin whiners dont like BoB, then go band together to make your own alliance/corp to take the fight to BoB. If you lose (likely) it is because noone wants to join you, has better things to do or arent smart enough to think long term and out-manouver BoB. No,I am not an alt, just a chap finding the whole BoB/rest of EvE releationship highly amusing.
sdthujfg	Posted - 2007.01.06 05:06:00 - [248] Originally by: Bawldeux IV Originally by: Pehova Mindtriq Guys, if we all help we can make this thread a big deal. CCP like BoB CCP = BoB (according to some) So really, do you expect to see CCP do anything to ruin BoB fun?? Prolly true. This would explain why bloods drop a certain salvage item that is rare and is insta sold for energy rigs in jita for 1 mill a piece. Drops are all in BOB territory. Gotta love that...
Emolayshun	Posted - 2007.01.06 05:56:00 - [249] BoB represents only a tiny fraction of total EvE players and even a small fraction of 0.0 pilots. At the end of the day, they would have to assimilate large numbers of other corps and alliances to have the numbers to attempt something like controling all of 0.0 - at that point, they would cease to be the BoB we know because their average member quality would probably drop, not to mention the sheer logistics of it. A much more likely scenario would see them controlling a significant portion of 0.0 (maybe double what they do now) with the rest of 0.0 controlled by vassel alliances in a big NAP orgy. Besides, if BoB did control all of 0.0, the sheer boredom of it would probably cause BoB to purposefully break up their alliance to get some fighting back in 0.0
Akia Mae	Posted - 2007.01.07 01:41:00 - [250] Edited by: Akia Mae on 07/01/2007 01:41:44 Edited by: Akia Mae on 07/01/2007 01:38:39 (Sorry, didnt mean to post on an alt) If you are a powerfull alliance and you eventually "own" lets say 10 regions. You dont have to defend them all 24/7. Pirates are not your concern. All you have to do is simply: 1) keep any wannabe-alliance from growing roots in "your" area 2) keep alliances outside your realm unstable (in fear) and fighting among themselves That way you own the space simply because you make sure nobody else does and you extract money by leasing limited mining/hunting rights to individual carebear corps (always making sure they dont grow roots and organize). To really control large parts of space you need to build a real empire, a system of vassalage where you put minor corps/alliances in charge of regions and have them defend them in case of minor invasions with backup from the major fleets in case of large scale warfare. This system of vassalage however will corrupt the empire over time (vassals want more power...), vassals organize against you and youre drowned in civil or guerilla war for a long time --> thats the roman empire story. I think BOB are clever enough to know this and thus they rather, defend one region to mine/harvest/hunt in peace and let the rest of their space lie idle. The discouraging factor in all this is: Once you are on the edge of becoming a strong alliance BoB comes round to own you, you loose large parts of your ressources and morale takes a vacation with them. At the moment, BoB cannot be defeated from the outside (assuming they are as good in economics/politics as they are in warfare). To aim at breaking their unity from the inside would probably be way to go. I assume they also know this and maintain strict recruitment/promotion policies therefore and care a lot about their member's morale. The war is only won once you have broken your enemy's morale entirely. As long as they maintain their goal and spirit through all ranks, they are a tough nut to *****. Especially since they seem to know a lot about common mistakes in organizations and have no obvious leaks. People who want to fight BoB still need to attack their weak spots (every entity has at least one) and not their stong ones. Yet remember: if you fail to exploit a weak spot, you just made your opponent stronger. As mentioned before, other alliances possibly lack imagination and are therefore unable to find weaknesses. And most of all, in order to destroy BoB: Ones desire & dedication to destroy BoB has to be bigger than BoB's desire & dedication to survive. Ask yourself: what fuels BoB's motivation. Can you cut the supply?

Feerax FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.07 03:39:00 - [251] Originally by: Reshei The BoB Victory over ASCN (....) It was a war, did you not expect someone to win? If ASCN had won would you be posting about how they are going to take over eve and make every region just like empire?
Wesley Harding	Posted - 2007.01.07 04:01:00 - [252] I think Eve's a moral game more then anything. Economic destruction is impossible.
Fuujin Hadean Drive Yards	Posted - 2007.01.07 04:13:00 - [253] Wow we have some "interesting" people on the forums....and i don't mean that in a positive way.
Alice Voerman Teutates Raiders R i s e	Posted - 2007.01.07 05:18:00 - [254] BoB didn't reach their current position out of sheer luck. They fought for it and, so far, they win, because so far, nobody else is good enough. Just like every other winning alliance before them. Then one day, somebody else finds a way and becomes the new BoB. All these winning alliances push the game forward and force people to evolve into better, stronger structures. They are the reason why we mine, trade, fight and level up: we want to get better at what we do, until one day there is nobody left to be beaten except ourselves. Then everybody else hates us. Rince, repeat. As opposed to every other MMORPG out there, the big hostile force isn't a computer IA you're not supposed to kill. Powers can be interacted with, and they can lose. So sit back, and learn to enjoy the fact. -- To make an omelette, you gotta kill people.
Jenessa D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.01.07 06:07:00 - [255] I for one can't see the day that BOB wins eve. It's a simple numbers game and there just simply aren't enough of them to do it. They will never own all the space in the game. But having said that at the moment I don't think there is a single entity that could fight and win against them, the closest I would say right now who could give them a run for their money would be D2. Though there are some up and coming alliances out there who in future I have no doubt may be in a position to hurt them. My own personal hunch is that BOB will fall one day. Most likely it will happen from within, it may be preceeded by some BOB defeat that might start the internal rot, or some key members may become bored with the lack of any decent challenge, or it just could be that they wont be able to get a decent fight anywhere and they may start haemorraging members who leave to get their PvP "fix" elsewhere. I think of Band of Brothers and I'm continually reminded of a quote from the character Dorian Grey in the film The League of Extrordinary Gentlemen where he says "All empires fall....there are no exceptions"
Arain	Posted - 2007.01.07 08:30:00 - [256] BoB will not kill EVE. What could kill EVE is competition. If and I admit its a big if, another company comes out with a primarily PvE space game that equals EVE in game play and graphics, the same thing that happened to UO could happen to EVE. A large portion of thier PvE subscribers could leave for the new game. EQ damaged the UO player base alot. It could happen here too. The PvP is > then PvE bias that is central to the Devs view of the future of the game does not apeal to everyone. They stay here because basicly its the only nonfantasy game in town. If that were to happen the PvP crowd would lose a a signifigant portion of thier suppliers, and those who just like to gank people would lose the easy prey they seem to love. So one wonders how long they would stay around. What would be left are the die hard people who really enjoy pitting thier wits against a real live opponent.
Seraphll Gallente The Clearwater Society Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.07 08:41:00 - [257] N00b, there is no way BoB could take over EVE. A simple 2 alliance war dec would be sufficient to take BoB (assuming they are as dedicated as BoB) But seriously, if BoB is that dedicated, why shouldn't they have everything they can get their hands on. You've always got to work for something. Also, I thought that was the point of all alliances... TAKING OVER EVE!!!!!
GoGo Yubari Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.01.07 10:38:00 - [258] Originally by: Sergio Ling BoB introduces Elves to Eve Dude, we already have the Intaki.
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2007.01.07 10:41:00 - [259] Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 07/01/2007 10:38:11 Originally by: GoGo Yubari Originally by: Sergio Ling BoB introduces Elves to Eve Dude, we already have the Intaki. /Me goes home to look in the mirror EvE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH SUPPORTER
DemoIition Shadows of the Dead Xelas Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.07 11:58:00 - [260] Hmmm,, good luck with the whole win eve thing, but i hear them Concorde fellas are some tough hombre's Hey does that mean the severe security status requirements concorde introduced will be relaxed?

darth solo Insurgency	Posted - 2007.01.07 12:24:00 - [261] i just think the rest of us cant be arsed. to do what BOB has done must be alot of work. the majority of eve players are pretty casual and play for a laugh. It just seems to me that BOB work too hard, like its long since been fun and is now a job to them. so they prob deserve all they have. i even heard they done a pos take down op on christmas day.. scary stuff. im sure they have 300 pos structures alone.. i mean ouch. d solo. celes apoc kill board
The Yzzerman Caldari Mortis Angelus	Posted - 2007.01.07 12:27:00 - [262] This is some funny ****I guess I will have too stop play Eve now then Tbh like some other guy said just look at the world history (RL) empire grooves ,rules and then diseper. Thats how it works. Btw who is this Bob anyway My neighbour is called Bob can it be him I will go and talk to him and tell himto stop ruin the game for you
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:01:00 - [263] Originally by: darth solo i just think the rest of us cant be arsed. to do what BOB has done must be alot of work. the majority of eve players are pretty casual and play for a laugh. It just seems to me that BOB work too hard, like its long since been fun and is now a job to them. so they prob deserve all they have. i even heard they done a pos take down op on christmas day.. scary stuff. im sure they have 300 pos structures alone.. i mean ouch. d solo. That's a pretty sad, even desperate, generalisation darth, shame on you. I play for fun. I wasn't on at Christmas because I was playing with my kid's new toys .. er, showing them how they work, yeah, that's it... Some people from BoB were on, but amazing as it would seem, they were not the only people playing Eve that day. Keep in mind that not everyone even celebrates Christmas. Just because you (and I have to confess, me too) don't think looking after a POS would be fun, some people do. They love it. Are you saying your gameplay is more valid than theirs? POS are part of the game mate, and have been for a long time. You can keep playing Eve 2003 if that makes you happy, and I can see the attraction, but the game has moved on. Get with the times. You can pretend Eve hasn't changed, but the only person you are fooling is yourself. The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:29:00 - [264] worst thread ever Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -Marcus TheMartin
Fuglife TOUAREGS	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:36:00 - [265] Enough of the whinning about bob being too good, its been said before it will be said again, they have the same ships that you do, they have the same skillpoints that you do, when bob formed there were some MASSIVE alliances already kicking about, and look what they have built for themselves. Quit your whinning, the only difference between bob and anyone else is they have the will to do something. Whinning because you are incompitent to beat them is lame, changing the game because of them is lamer. If you want to see Bob dead, do something about it ingame. _____ Hail Moderator! This be me main character!
Redbad Minmatar Gingerbread Reapers Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.08 18:49:00 - [266] Originally by: Fuglife Enough of the whinning about bob being too good, its been said before it will be said again, they have the same ships that you do, they have the same skillpoints that you do, when bob formed there were some MASSIVE alliances already kicking about, and look what they have built for themselves. Quit your whinning, the only difference between bob and anyone else is they have the will to do something. Whinning because you are incompitent to beat them is lame, changing the game because of them is lamer. If you want to see Bob dead, do something about it ingame. And that nicely sums up and draws a good conclusion to this thread. No need to backread guys, this thread has ended.
Yumiko Takagawa	Posted - 2007.01.08 21:17:00 - [267] The political game in Eve seems to be over. I don't know what motivates ppl building outposts and such, as it's clear that BoB can come and claim it when they'll decide to do so. Then they'll fill the area with paying clients, and that's it - another region contributes to already immense BoB wealth and power. Probably they deserve what they achieved, but it's quite sad, that this game is slowly sinking under the influence of those who take it as something much bigger and more important than a video game. It looks that for some it's the life project or some kind of personal holy crusade.
Ab Initio Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.08 22:50:00 - [268] Edited by: Ab Initio on 08/01/2007 22:49:43 Originally by: Yumiko Takagawa Probably they deserve what they achieved, but it's quite sad, that this game is slowly sinking under the influence of those who take it as something much bigger and more important than a video game. It looks that for some it's the life project or some kind of personal holy crusade. We really don't. People justify their own failures in this game by convincing themselves that: * The enemy has no life. * The enemy lives in their parents basement. * The enemy takes the game too seriously. * The enemy treats the game like a full time job. It's rubbish, but it helps people sleep at night.
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.08 23:09:00 - [269] Originally by: Yumiko Takagawa The political game in Eve seems to be over. I don't know what motivates ppl building outposts and such, as it's clear that BoB can come and claim it when they'll decide to do so. Then they'll fill the area with paying clients, and that's it - another region contributes to already immense BoB wealth and power. Probably they deserve what they achieved, but it's quite sad, that this game is slowly sinking under the influence of those who take it as something much bigger and more important than a video game. It looks that for some it's the life project or some kind of personal holy crusade. I can't resist replying to this post. What on earth makes you think that BoB considers Eve to be anything other than a game? It's fully understood within the alliance that Eve is just a game and we certainly do not treat it as some sort of 'life project' or 'holy crusade'. Just like most of the community we play to have fun. Just because fun for BoB means setting ourselves goals and playing hard to achieve them does not mean that our lives are consumed by a game we enjoy playing. I could go into the demographics of the alliance, how old we all are, what percentage of us have jobs or are studying, how many of us own our own homes etc. but we've covered that elsewhere on these forums when we did an internal survey just for fun and we most certainly do not have anything to justify on those fronts. So instead let's look at the game itself, some of the behaviours it creates and therefore it's attraction to people who like to play games as a hobby. Eve facilitates immersion, involvement and emotion better than most games in the market because of the way it has been designed. From the fundamental design philosophy of adopting the 'sandbox' as opposed to 'themepark' approach, to the death penalty, to in game support for social structures Eve is geared towards providing a deeply involving social gaming experience. That kind of gaming environment then lends itself to goal setting behaviours and within Eve the achievement of one set of player's goals often means that another set of player's goals will not be met. Just because one group of players is having more success at achieving it's goals at the moment does not mean that the game is broken, far from it. In fact you could argue strongly that the rise of powers within the game such as BoB is evidence of the fact that the game design philosophy is supremely successful. Alliances, corporations and organisations come and go within Eve. No-one knows how long BoB's period of dominance will last but whilst it does it is living proof of the game's 'sandbox' design philosophy in that it is possible, within the context of the game, to achieve your dreams. What a fantastic testament to CCP that they have created a game which facilitates the achievement of player set goals on a grand scale. People play games for escapism, for fun, for an endorphin rush similar to sport... Eve is one of the greatest examples of a successful gaming model that can give it's players a very intense and satisfying gaming experience and that is surely something that we all want. All your tinpot whinery conspiracy theories are generally based on several other human emotions and behaviours, not least of which can be easily expressed as "I want what he's got". Blog
Karlemgne The Black Fleet	Posted - 2007.01.09 01:01:00 - [270] That's a pretty sad, even desperate, generalisation darth, shame on you. I play for fun. No offense meant, Avon, but it is hard for us non-alliance types to see what you do as fun. Again, refering back to that Titan kill fraps, all the ordering about and cussing at the rank and file on vent... honestly, I'd never pay for the privilige of being bossed around WORSE than I already am at my real life job. But, hey, who am I? To each his own. I guess it might be different if I were the one verbaling abusing underlings. Hehe... -Karl

Karlemgne The Black Fleet	Posted - 2007.01.09 01:13:00 - [271] Just because one group of players is having more success at achieving it's goals at the moment does not mean that the game is broken, far from it. In fact you could argue strongly that the rise of powers within the game such as BoB is evidence of the fact that the game design philosophy is supremely successful. I guess that is really easy to say when you have an alliance whose leadership, and some members, are connected to the company that makes this game. Harkening back to my previous post on this thread, this game just seems unfit for dev, gm, and CCP employee participation. Given the nature of its persistence (the player control of territory, research stations, npc areas, ect) and the lack of other servers make alliances like BoB smack of nepotism and unfairness. Much of this can be illusionary, and I'm sure it is, like the stories you hear of GMs actually helping BoB using a GM client. However it is easy to see why some people believe this. Most importantly though, it is the small things that most people don't think about that bother me. How the game economy is changed, what things get nerfed, buffed, ect... these are all silently informed, at some level, by devs experiences in BoB. In fact, it seems to me, that CCP has incentive only to change the game in ways that benefit their alliance, their characters, ect. Granted, they do this while trying to keep subscribers... none-the-less it seems wrong. In regards to this whole thread though, I've got no real problems with BoB. I hardly ever see them, and when I do, their pilots seem nice enough. And no, I do not think that BoB will "win at eve" and take over the eveverse. -Karlemgne (These are my personal opinions, not the opinions of Black Fleet.)
Ab Initio Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.09 01:30:00 - [272] Originally by: Karlemgne I guess that is really easy to say when you have an alliance whose leadership, and some members, are connected to the company that makes this game. Harkening back to my previous post on this thread, this game just seems unfit for dev, gm, and CCP employee participation. Given the nature of its persistence (the player control of territory, research stations, npc areas, ect) and the lack of other servers make alliances like BoB smack of nepotism and unfairness. Much of this can be illusionary, and I'm sure it is, like the stories you hear of GMs actually helping BoB using a GM client. However it is easy to see why some people believe this. Most importantly though, it is the small things that most people don't think about that bother me. How the game economy is changed, what things get nerfed, buffed, ect... these are all silently informed, at some level, by devs experiences in BoB. In fact, it seems to me, that CCP has incentive only to change the game in ways that benefit their alliance, their characters, ect. Granted, they do this while trying to keep subscribers... none-the-less it seems wrong. In regards to this whole thread though, I've got no real problems with BoB. I hardly ever see them, and when I do, their pilots seem nice enough. And no, I do not think that BoB will "win at eve" and take over the eveverse. Do you really believe this garbage, or is this just flame bait in it's most pure form? If I honestly believed that any alliance in this game was being unfairly influenced by devs or GMs, I would cancel my accounts and go play something else. This game is in the journey, there is no endgame to skip too. Cheating in any way, shape or form, would only undermine the enjoyment this game has to offer. People really need to stop taking everything they read in SWA chat as gospel.
Cupertino Castellum	Posted - 2007.01.09 02:04:00 - [273] Quote: Harkening back to my previous post on this thread, this game just seems unfit for dev, gm, and CCP employee participation. Given the nature of its persistence (the player control of territory, research stations, npc areas, ect) and the lack of other servers make alliances like BoB smack of nepotism and unfairness. Of course it's blatantly unfair, that much is totally obvious to anybody that doesn't have a vested interest in the issue, but it isn't going to change. CCP have stated their position on Devs and GMs playing Eve, and you can either accept it, or move on to a different game, or go outside, or something.
Maximillian Pele Caldari Jewel Enterprises	Posted - 2007.01.09 02:54:00 - [274] It is important to keep in mind that - as long as they play within the rules - the players of a MMORPG are not to blame if fundamental imbalances ruin the game: the developer is. If (for argument) BoB has become an unstoppable force who will rule over 0.0 like Gods while conquered serfs labour under the whip, that would be CCP's fault as BoB is just playing the game the way CCP intended. While I feel it was a worthless diversion of resources and time that would have been better spent on TQ (hope you got paid upfront CCP), Serenity may be the shot-across-the-bow that CCP needed to alert them to the dangers of allowing power gamers to dominate the server to the detriment of everyone else: no casual gamers = a dying server. Hopefully this will make CCP think hard before introducing any changes that will make taking 0.0 space from its current holders a harder or more laborious task than faced by the current holders. Those who currently hold 0.0 deserve their space as they have held it against all comers, but it must be possible for new entities to emerge, conquor and succeed. Stagnation will kill EvE, not BoB. If CCP makes changes that lock the majority of the players out of the end game content, then we have a problem. But we are no where near that situation atm. Truth be told if BoB ever did manage to rule EvE then I suspect they really would leave to play POTBS, as the challenge would be gone (the other option - seed opponents with BoB members to lift their game is out due to the spying/betrayal issues). When BoB saw the breadth of their domain, they wept for there were no more regions to conquer." The only people who can kill EvE are CCP. They have all their eggs in the one server basket so they canÆt afford to get it wrong. In times of doubt I ask myself "What would BoB do?", and then do the opposite.
Becham Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2007.01.09 03:04:00 - [275] Edited by: Becham on 09/01/2007 03:02:24 The only thing that makes me roll my eyes is that BoB has game developers and GM's playing in their corp. What an improper way to enjoy the fruits of your labor. edit: I take that back. The BoB members who rush to defend game developers and GM's playing in their corp makes me roll my eyes too. How naive to think that CCP employees being involved doesn't have any effect.
sabo tage	Posted - 2007.01.09 03:10:00 - [276] Just two general thoughts... Theres still a 'bit' (a very large bit... bloody hell, its huge) of space that BoB hasnt conquered yet. So dont cry over the spilled milk... which hasnt been spilled yet actually =) The other thought. Every new major force in EVE was stronger then the previous one. Thats just the way its been so far. Im really afraid of the moster BoB is going to create ;] Somehow Ive got the feeling that in 2 or 3 yrs ppl will say:'OMG, that new UBERPVPWHATEVER Alliance is going to ruin the game'. And its these ppl i would like to dedicate the following lines to: Its only a game Enjoy it the way it is
Karlemgne The Black Fleet	Posted - 2007.01.09 03:24:00 - [277] Originally by: Ab Initio Do you really believe this garbage, or is this just flame bait in it's most pure form? If I honestly believed that any alliance in this game was being unfairly influenced by devs or GMs, I would cancel my accounts and go play something else. This game is in the journey, there is no endgame to skip too. Cheating in any way, shape or form, would only undermine the enjoyment this game has to offer. People really need to stop taking everything they read in SWA chat as gospel. Read my post again, I am honestly not trying to start a flame here. I'm just voicing my opinion about this game, as it pertains to dev, GM, and CCP employee involvment in general. This comes from the perspective of someone who has worked in the video game industry, and on MMOs. I also made a point of saying that most of it is illusion. No I don't believe GMs are helping out BoB with their GM clients. What I said is, given the nature of the game, I understand, in some way, why people might say that... given the power and prevelance of BoB, and, again, the nature of this game: i.e. one server, player control of space, resources, bpos, npc areas, ect, ect, ect. What bothers me is stuff like what changes are effected, or not, in the game, based on CCP employees who play the game. I'm not sure that it is healthy, again, given the traits of this game I listed above. The fact that I play this game, and will continue to play it, speaks for how worried I am about overt wrong doing. This is a great game, and we all owe the people who made it a lot. My feeling is just that, unless we make more than one server, then I think CCP should not play (for fun) their game. Sadly. -Karlemgne
Karlemgne The Black Fleet	Posted - 2007.01.09 03:33:00 - [278] Originally by: Cupertino Quote: Harkening back to my previous post on this thread, this game just seems unfit for dev, gm, and CCP employee participation. Given the nature of its persistence (the player control of territory, research stations, npc areas, ect) and the lack of other servers make alliances like BoB smack of nepotism and unfairness. Of course it's blatantly unfair, that much is totally obvious to anybody that doesn't have a vested interest in the issue, but it isn't going to change. CCP have stated their position on Devs and GMs playing Eve, and you can either accept it, or move on to a different game, or go outside, or something. Right. And let me be clear, I don't think, fundemenatlly, that CCP should be barred from playing their game. Add another server. Problem solved, imo. And no, obviouslly, I won't be leaving the game, either way. :) -Karlemgne
Karlemgne The Black Fleet	Posted - 2007.01.09 03:34:00 - [279] Originally by: Becham Edited by: Becham on 09/01/2007 03:02:24 The only thing that makes me roll my eyes is that BoB has game developers and GM's playing in their corp. What an improper way to enjoy the fruits of your labor. edit: I take that back. The BoB members who rush to defend game developers and GM's playing in their corp makes me roll my eyes too. How naive to think that CCP employees being involved doesn't have any effect. Yes. It is kind of naive. I'm not sure I'm rolling my eyes at anyone, but I agree with you on the naive point. -Karl
Becham Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2007.01.09 03:38:00 - [280] There is another server that is adequate for GMs, game developers, etc. What is wrong with them restricting themselves to the test server? I'm sure they would draw a bit of a following too so they'd be able to get in their pew pew and leave the real server to those who like to have an untainted game.

Noriath	Posted - 2007.01.09 03:39:00 - [281] The whole staff involvement deal is complete bogus, anyone who seriously works as a part of the ISD, as a game master or even in the dev team sure as heck does not have the time to be a major alliance player. Yes, theese people may gain some inside knowledge, or even have powers players don't have at their disposal, but that doesn't mean they are allowed to use either their knowledge nor any power they might have to influence the game in any way. With a volunteer team that has hundreds of members you can be sure that they aren't all in on some grand scheme, and that someone would blow the whistle if anything downright crooked went on. And also: When really unfair things happen that really get people angry to the point of leaving the server it's usually not what CCP intended to happen. That doesn't mean that they can turn back the time on the server or rebuild the whole game system the next day.
Karlemgne The Black Fleet	Posted - 2007.01.09 03:42:00 - [282] Edited by: Karlemgne on 09/01/2007 03:39:09 Originally by: Becham There is another server that is adequate for GMs, game developers, etc. What is wrong with them restricting themselves to the test server? I'm sure they would draw a bit of a following too so they'd be able to get in their pew pew and leave the real server to those who like to have an untainted game. I disagree here, slightly. While working on MMOs it is perfectly permisable for devs to play their game, as it is played by the players. It actually, in most cases, helps... everyone gets the full feel of the game, and allows for constructive changes. They, of course, have a myriad of in house servers (probably at least 4) to test fixes, changes, ect. This game however, having only one live server, and having the kind of persistence it does, makes dev involvment on play servers dangerous and demolarizing at best, and patently unfair at worst. -Karl
Becham Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2007.01.09 04:00:00 - [283] Well, 1 GM caught cheating not by a CCP employee but by players who saw 29 bil isk of mods on a scorpion. Any others that did not get so greedy or careless to fly around in their cheatmobile that have been undetected? Who can say. T2 BPO hidden in a corp's hangar would probably be hard to detect as a fraud. I'm sure this has never happened though because they probably don't have any cheaters like that at CCP, except for that one guy. So, that said, there is good reason why people cast a suspicious eye on corps that have CCP employees in their midst.
Maximillian Pele Caldari Jewel Enterprises	Posted - 2007.01.09 04:03:00 - [284] On the whole Devs/GMs/ISD play EvE and haXor for BoB..... I get the reverse fibe, that as EvE has evolved into a multi-million dollar business the Devs/GMs/ISD now don't get to play EvE enough. This is due to all the broken content and game play that CCP seemingly needs the players to keep pointing out to them. Surely some CCP employee would log in and actually try to use the new content, and would shout out from their desk "hey Tux, you forget to seed xxxx!". Or at least note that things that weren't working as planned. Or a Dev would log on his 0.0 alliance alt and say "this terrible lag and node crashes are really destroying fleet battles" or "wow POS warfare really is as boring as ***!". Instead I see CCP employees working long hours and maybe being able to log in for an hour or two every now and then. This is why I suspect the Rumours that most CCP employees are pirates is more likely to be true than they are the leaders of BoB. What better way to let off steam after a long day dealing with a never ending stream of petitions than by ganking some of your customers. CCP employees should play EvE more, not less, and play across a the full range of options/professions. In times of doubt I ask myself "What would BoB do?", and then do the opposite.*
ollobrains Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.09 04:06:00 - [285] the devs are to busy rushing development of kali 2 to fit CCPs PR push. Expect a unbalanced bug free game to follow in the meantime some aspects work well some dont All posts made by myself represent my personal opinion only - they do not represent the rest of the privateer alliacne unless they decide to agree with what im saying
Karlemgne The Black Fleet	Posted - 2007.01.09 04:08:00 - [286] Originally by: Maximillian Pele On the whole Devs/GMs/ISD play EvE and haXor for BoB..... I get the reverse fibe, that as EvE has evolved into a multi-million dollar business the Devs/GMs/ISD now don't get to play EvE enough. This is due to all the broken content and game play that CCP seemingly needs the players to keep pointing out to them. Surely some CCP employee would log in and actually try to use the new content, and would shout out from their desk "hey Tux, you forget to seed xxxx!". Or at least note that things that weren't working as planned. Or a Dev would log on his 0.0 alliance alt and say "this terrible lag and node crashes are really destroying fleet battles" or "wow POS warfare really is as boring as ****!". Instead I see CCP employees working long hours and maybe being able to log in for an hour or two every now and then. This is why I suspect the Rumours that most CCP employees are pirates is more likely to be true than they are the leaders of BoB. What better way to let off steam after a long day dealing with a never ending stream of petitions than by ganking some of your customers. CCP employees should play EvE more, not less, and play across a the full range of options/professions. I am going to defend CCP here. An MMO is a huge project, and in the quest to get out new content, bugs are overlooked. If CCP, or any company that produces and publishes an MMO for example, were to take the time to fix every single issue in their database, then new content would just cease. You'd have an endless stream of patches for years. Having said that, people who work on video games do crunch at times. Not enough to mean that they only have an hour or two to play games on a regular basis. -Karl
Maximillian Pele Caldari Jewel Enterprises	Posted - 2007.01.09 04:17:00 - [287] Working in a company that sells software for online financial trading I am well aware of the "death march" to release. Our company gives all of its employees the software to use for free simply because the employees pick up many bugs well before our customers do. But then our customers are not so "forgiving" as problems with our software have real world $$$ consequences. QA involves the whole staff. In times of doubt I ask myself "What would BoB do?", and then do the opposite.
SSgt Sniper Gallente Zekarus Ltd.	Posted - 2007.01.09 04:22:00 - [288] Originally by: Maximillian Pele On the whole Devs/GMs/ISD play EvE and haXor for BoB..... I get the reverse fibe, that as EvE has evolved into a multi-million dollar business the Devs/GMs/ISD now don't get to play EvE enough. This is due to all the broken content and game play that CCP seemingly needs the players to keep pointing out to them. Surely some CCP employee would log in and actually try to use the new content, and would shout out from their desk "hey Tux, you forget to seed xxxx!". Or at least note that things that weren't working as planned. Or a Dev would log on his 0.0 alliance alt and say "this terrible lag and node crashes are really destroying fleet battles" or "wow POS warfare really is as boring as ***!". Instead I see CCP employees working long hours and maybe being able to log in for an hour or two every now and then. This is why I suspect the Rumours that most CCP employees are pirates is more likely to be true than they are the leaders of BoB. What better way to let off steam after a long day dealing with a never ending stream of petitions than by ganking some of your customers. CCP employees should play EvE more, not less, and play across a the full range of options/professions. I disagree. I feel most likely they should not play at all. This doesn't come from any belief in the BoB alt/CCP employee thing, I'm an empirer, and literally couldn't care less. It's a matter of perspective. The cliche is that you can't see the forest for the trees, and it came into being for a reason. CCP employees playing the game with thier characters they developed for thier playstyle lead to a situation where they only have the perspective of a character developed this one specific way. And without a thousand different people playing two hours a day minimum, you cannot cover enough of the spectrum to get an honest to god perspective of how the whole will break down. And last I checked, they don't have a thousand people working in the office. This isn't to say I don't understand why they might want to play the game, it's thier baby. But without making many characters, of many races, specialized in many different ways, and playing a different one every day, it's hard to see the larger picture I believe. Then again, as I am not God, I am not going to say they can't play; I don't have that power. I can say they ought not play;* that's entirely within my rights to formulate an opinion. As to GM and Dev involvment in BoB, eh, I don't care. I might have a different opinion if I wanted to go out there, but since I don't.... well, it's just not important to me. --------- Representing all the casual gamers happily living in Empire, that want NO PART of your 0.0 annoyances. However, I do not represent my corp. We vote first.
Tarkan Kador Amarr PanTarkan Kador Holdings	Posted - 2007.01.09 04:37:00 - [289] I think that the GMs, Devs, Investors, etc. should be able to play on Tranquility. However... I do think it is inappropriate for them to ally themselves with any customers against other customers, because one side will have instant access to have CS issues resolved, when everyone else gets the form letter, and months in the petition cue.
Shmachura School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.01.09 05:01:00 - [290] Originally by: SSgt Sniper I disagree. I feel most likely they should not play at all. This doesn't come from any belief in the BoB alt/CCP employee thing, I'm an empirer, and literally couldn't care less. So the developers are just supposed to throw the game out into the public, having no knowledge of their creation other than the few lines of code they were responsible for? How do they distinguish between genuine complaints and bandwagon jumping whines when it comes patch time? Perhaps they can rely on the general forum's opinion on upcoming changes seeing as it's a bastion of well-formed and unbiased suggestions. As to the BoB GM thing, I'm fairly anti-BoB and still can't believe that's the best argument some of you have against them.

Karlemgne The Black Fleet	Posted - 2007.01.09 05:28:00 - [291] Originally by: Shmachura Originally by: SSgt Sniper I disagree. I feel most likely they should not play at all. This doesn't come from any belief in the BoB alt/CCP employee thing, I'm an empirer, and literally couldn't care less. So the developers are just supposed to throw the game out into the public, having no knowledge of their creation other than the few lines of code they were responsible for? How do they distinguish between genuine complaints and bandwagon jumping whines when it comes patch time? Perhaps they can rely on the general forum's opinion on upcoming changes seeing as it's a bastion of well-formed and unbiased suggestions. As to the BoB GM thing, I'm fairly anti-BoB and still can't believe that's the best argument some of you have against them. I agree somewhat. However, you act as if not playing this game as fun means no Quality Assurance work gets done. Believe me, devs have enough hands on testing this game without having to play it for fun. -Karlemgne
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.09 05:45:00 - [292] You're all nuts if you think BoB is infested with Devs, GMs and ISD and that we somehow benefit from that. How would we benefit, you think our ships magically have more hitpoints when we go into combat, that our guns do more damage, that our POS's mine more moon minerals? Seriously what on earth are you all smoking? It's the same in every game, the top players always get accused of hacking or being devs or some other utterly mindless drivel anything but people admitting 'gosh they're just a little bit good at this game'. Of course in true Monty Python style loads of nitwits will come out of the woodwork screaming "only the messiah would deny his divinity, he is the messiah!". Lo and behold because we've got an IQ bigger than a goldfish and actually know that our alliance isn't riddled with Devs, GMs and ISD... that we most certainly don't have any magical dev granted abilities... and say so in public.. the opposite must be true! I don't know why I bother posting a denial to be honest, some of you whacko's will always claim it to be otherwise. If you put half as much effort and grey matter into actually succeeding at Eve it might not be BoB at the top of the food chain, heaven help us but some of YOU might actually get there too! Specially for you nutters it's time to dig out a new sig. Blog
Altpor	Posted - 2007.01.09 06:02:00 - [293] These are the days of our lives.
Liu Kaskakka PAK Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.01.09 06:10:00 - [294] Gotta cancel account then.. =I King Liu is RIGHT!!
Frug SYOID Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.01.09 06:26:00 - [295] If bob took over all of Eve, they would be signing their fate, because that would get SO MANY people rising up against them that they'd fall. It's like the empire in star wars, which is actually kinda cool. I'd love it if they took over all of 0.0 and tried to hold it, cause it would be cool. There will always be guerrilla tactics. - - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - or automatic signatures - - - - - - - -
Elisca Black Gallente Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.09 06:41:00 - [296] Your right! That fight, when BoB controls all of 0.0 and has DESTROYed the EMPIREs and has created a SAFE HEAVEN inside delve for new characters to spawn...then truely we will have WON eve. When it is all said and done..I guess we will look back and hold Gladitorial Games for the CITIZENS OF DELVE, financed of course by all the regions of THE NEW EMPIRE. Better look out eve when we can put guns on gates and around Starbases....your SOL! Remember..Be the change you want to see in the world.
Tipz NexAstrum Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2007.01.09 06:46:00 - [297] Are there any other *****pot conspiracy theories we want to lump into this thread? BoB on the grassy knoll? Seriously, keep em comming cause it was a good laugh so far and I'm looking forward to more -------------------------------------------
Nifel Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.09 08:08:00 - [298] Originally by: Tipz NexAstrum Are there any other ***pot conspiracy theories we want to lump into this thread? BoB on the grassy knoll? Seriously, keep em comming cause it was a good laugh so far and I'm looking forward to more BoB citizenship. Gladiator games. Throne room once planetary interaction comes into play. Our own specially designed death star for outstanding services to CCP. Turning empire space into BoB owned 0.0 space. Invasion of Jita, the day EVE died! "When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: Sama**
hotgirl933	Posted - 2007.01.09 08:13:00 - [299] the day bob wins eve lol - as for jita u will need to learn the language of the noob to win that or get involved in factional warfare
Sir Bart Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.01.09 08:16:00 - [300] BOB has a lot of very old players so they have potency in their fleets. And they have t2 bpo's so they can all fly t2 ships and not worry about the problems with repurchasing them. However, I don't think money or sp is what makes BOB strong, it's their propagana machine. People like the op here think they are much stronger than they are. If you look at kill death ratio's, Bob didn't beat the crap outta ASCN some might think. They simply got an army of alts on forums talking about what a joke ASCN is and eventually people beleived it and people in ASCN started to disband. War in eve comes down to a popularity contest sometimes. People feel like they are losing too much and want to be on the winning team. Anyone play CS? There's lots of people who want on the winning team... myself, I always like to be up against the odds. -Bart

SSgt Sniper Gallente Zekarus Ltd.	Posted - 2007.01.09 08:23:00 - [301] Originally by: Shmachura Originally by: SSgt Sniper I disagree. I feel most likely they should not play at all. This doesn't come from any belief in the BoB alt/CCP employee thing, I'm an empirer, and literally couldn't care less. So the developers are just supposed to throw the game out into the public, having no knowledge of their creation other than the few lines of code they were responsible for? How do they distinguish between genuine complaints and bandwagon jumping whines when it comes patch time? Perhaps they can rely on the general forum's opinion on upcoming changes seeing as it's a bastion of well-formed and unbiased suggestions. As to the BoB GM thing, I'm fairly anti-BoB and still can't believe that's the best argument some of you have against them. Simple. 1000 volunteer testers. 250 from each empire, split evenly acroos each strain from said empire. Keep a roughly even split of industrialists, industrialist-pvpers, and strict pew pews. Also try for a good mix of empire vs lowsec vs. 0.0 folks. At each patch, these folks, after one week, fill out a form with thier impressions of the good, the bad, and the indifferent. At two weeks they fill it out again to allow for bad first impressions. Read the submitted forms, get a clearer sense of the whole picture of how any adjustments worked out against what you intended to have happen, go from there. And for the record I don't know if CCP is all over BoB membership, and I don't care even if they are. --------- Representing all the casual gamers happily living in Empire, that want NO PART of your 0.0 annoyances. However, I do not represent my corp. We vote first.
Ab Initio Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.09 09:06:00 - [302] Originally by: Sir Bart If you look at kill death ratio's, Bob didn't beat the crap outta ASCN some might think. Purely out of interest, but what do you consider "beating the crap" out of someone? We had at least a 5:1 (all ships) against what was supposed to be biggest threat to BoB in the EVE universe. You have very high expectations if 15,000+ ships in a couple of months doesn't get the juices flowing.
Lunadi Minmatar Solar Trade	Posted - 2007.01.09 09:10:00 - [303] Edited by: Lunadi on 09/01/2007 09:37:39 Edited by: Lunadi on 09/01/2007 09:36:18 Originally by: Sir Bart BOB has a lot of very old players so they have potency in their fleets. And they have t2 bpo's so they can all fly t2 ships and not worry about the problems with repurchasing them. However, I don't think money or sp is what makes BOB strong, it's their propagana machine. People like the op here think they are much stronger than they are. If you look at kill death ratio's, Bob didn't beat the crap outta ASCN some might think. They simply got an army of alts on forums talking about what a joke ASCN is and eventually people beleived it and people in ASCN started to disband. War in eve comes down to a popularity contest sometimes. People feel like they are losing too much and want to be on the winning team. Anyone play CS? There's lots of people who want on the winning team... myself, I always like to be up against the odds. -Bart I don't buy that, morale is surely an important factor, but I don't believe it's propaganda that killed ASCN. IMHO Alliances like ASCN have very many 'carebear' members. In times of real war they usually tries to avoid losses (probably because they are more industry / pve oriented than pvp). Also there is a problem of internal alliances desintegration when things start to go into the wrong direction (people starting blame each other, taking care about evacuating their stuff instead of fighting, etc..). It's more about members attitude and prefered gameplay style than propaganda (imho forum propaganda is just another way of smack) I saw this internal desintegration in some other alliance during war times: - my corporation although officialy very 'active' had actually about 10% members participating in ops - almost each fleet op that resulted in a failure, immediately was followed by suspitions about spy alts, etc... (very good impact on morale ;-)) - alliance had poor pvp leaderships, no tactical approach, total waste of human resources, bad communication - it simply wasn't a pvp oriented alliance (and this is extremely important as good leadership comes with experience, also in more gloabal conflicts - and this is what probably BoB excels at atm) - failures resulted in leadership anger directed toward their own members (blaming, more strict apporach to 'rules', fining, etc..) - many corp started silently migrating toward empire - nothing has been done to boost morales & integrate the alliance (again bad communication) With this kind of scenario you loose at the moment the war starts. I believe this might be similar at some point to ASCN, but I do no know that for sure. What I'm a bit worried about, is that eve might become a uterly pvp-oriented game, where all other interaction would be only a minor backround element, that can be easily filled by an alt. So what could 'win' eve is purely PVP alliances (and you can see this trend heavily on the recruitment forums). -------- hate my spelling? go play SCRABBLE!
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.09 10:01:00 - [304] I think that last statement of yours is simply because a large ammount of non PvPers are carebears that won't go to 0.0 for anything. Recruiting pvpers is best way to get people there. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Damian Vilsalant The Pentagram	Posted - 2007.01.09 10:17:00 - [305] Edited by: Damian Vilsalant on 09/01/2007 10:16:33 Edited by: Damian Vilsalant on 09/01/2007 10:15:09 Only read the first post so i may be repeating stuff some1 else already said: all you have to do is to make the RP from R&D agents tradable and instead of luck there should be auctions to get the t2 BPOs. then ppl could actually get t2 BPOs by working and trading RPs or also joint ventures of different corps that then spend all their RPs together to "buy" a t2 BPO. the current system is anti-capitalistic because there is no typical "free market" for R&D (which is one of the most important parts of the entire game imho). So: - Change the R&D system to a BPO-Auction with RP as currency - Make RPs a tradable good so multiple corps can work together at getting some t2 stuff cheers DV
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.09 10:22:00 - [306] Just add 2 more cents. I have worked on MMO development in the past. And the last thing i would want to do, or any of my fellow work partners, was to play the game seriously out of time job. You get too tired of it to play it seriously. I reaally doub any developer plays as anything mroe than a pirate of a member of a minor corp. Also they are not stupid! They would not prejudice EVE balance and success just because of their virtual ego. Please.. think a bit. Developers are ( usually in most games) have a special type of ego that cannot be contained inside a game. They would give crap for having the biggest alliance. Their ego is more about disputing how good its invented feature was or how fast his code is. As game developer its almost no fun to achieve in game results, most of fun is of seeing your hard work , working properly and seeing that people gets happy, staisfied or annoyied with it. GMs might be different, i knew a few game where GMs really moved a few pieces behind courtains, but that is rare. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Zzleeper Amarr levisomnus spectatrix	Posted - 2007.01.09 12:40:00 - [307] Originally by: Blacklight You're all nuts if you think BoB is infested with Devs, GMs and ISD and that we somehow benefit from that. How would we benefit, you think our ships magically have more hitpoints when we go into combat, that our guns do more damage, that our POS's mine more moon minerals? Seriously what on earth are you all smoking? It's the same in every game, the top players always get accused of hacking or being devs or some other utterly mindless drivel anything but people admitting 'gosh they're just a little bit good at this game'. Of course in true Monty Python style loads of nitwits will come out of the woodwork screaming "only the messiah would deny his divinity, he is the messiah!". Lo and behold because we've got an IQ bigger than a goldfish and actually know that our alliance isn't riddled with Devs, GMs and ISD... that we most certainly don't have any magical dev granted abilities... and say so in public.. the opposite must be true! I don't know why I bother posting a denial to be honest, some of you whacko's will always claim it to be otherwise. If you put half as much effort and grey matter into actually succeeding at Eve it might not be BoB at the top of the food chain, heaven help us but some of YOU might actually get there too! Specially for you nutters it's time to dig out a new sig. So you are trying to say that not a single Dev, GM or ISD play for BOB? yeah right, pull the wool over my eyes too
Lunadi Minmatar Solar Trade	Posted - 2007.01.09 12:40:00 - [308] Originally by: Kagura Nikon I think that last statement of yours is simply because a large ammount of non PvPers are carebears that won't go to 0.0 for anything. Recruiting pvpers is best way to get people there. It might be a part of pre-selection recruitment for 0.0, but I'm pretty sure that PVP oriented Alliances are becoming more important atm. Just recently I read an ex-ASCN copr recruitment post stating that the corp reorient from Industry toward PVP "EvE has forced us as a corp to change its priorities to focus on might and strength and we aim to do just that" ASCN could probably keep the small predators away just by outnumbering them (even being a mostly industrial alliance), while they proved helpless agains a predator of bigger size (and strong determination). IMHO this might be the current trend for 0.0. What keeps me worried, is that other aspects of gameplay (like industry) are just so easily replacable by alts. -------- hate my spelling? go play SCRABBLE!
Za Po Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.09 13:06:00 - [309] Originally by: Damian Vilsalant Only read the first post so i may be repeating stuff some1 else already said: all you have to do is to make the RP from R&D agents tradable and instead of luck there should be auctions to get the t2 BPOs. then ppl could actually get t2 BPOs by working and trading RPs or also joint ventures of different corps that then spend all their RPs together to "buy" a t2 BPO. You are repeating stuff someone else said - not in this thread, but all over multiple threads for years. And, in doing so, you are repeating the same mistake - not thinking through. Trading RPs and auctioning T2 is the best way to make sure that only big alliances, noone else, can get into T2 production. Who do you think would be able to buy up more RPs and outbid anyone else? Like it or not, the lottery is the system that gives the best chances to the little guy.
Yumiko Takagawa	Posted - 2007.01.09 15:08:00 - [310] It looks like the discussion is going into those tinfoil-hat regions of Dev intervention into the game. I don't believe that devs and GMs are helping BoB with their special accounts. It's just stupid. Too much risk for what reward? If this comes out, it'll be a terrible blow to Eve, so, honestly - it's bull****. That doesn't mean however that they don't help BoB by more subtle means. Insider information on how to tweak the client to handle lag better, log in faster when cluster is under heavy load. What will be nerfed and what will be boosted in the near future. What BPOs will be more profitable and what will be a waste of time. This info is not as straightforward as logging with GM account and directly helping, but it's still a huge bonus in the right hands. If you ask yourself, why devs or GMs favour BoB, the answer is simple - BoB is playing the game the closest way of CCP vision. They play the game the way, CCP think it was intended to be played, that's why they probably get a lot of sympathy from the "powerful" figures in the community.

Helen Tranter	Posted - 2007.01.09 16:10:00 - [311] Originally by: Yumiko Takagawa If you ask yourself, why devs or GMs favour BoB, the answer is simple - BoB is playing the game the closest way of CCP vision. They play the game the way, CCP think it was intended to be played, that's why they probably get a lot of sympathy from the "powerful" figures in the community. True to a point but they also play the gamesmanship game of pushing the rules to the limit knowing that they will be warned before getting band. This and there interferance with others TS and all the other noob tactics they use will only spoil the game for many. Including thoughs that are part of Bob. CCP Should Publish the Charecter Names of All that get Band!! Thats the only way to Stop this type of Gameplay
El Marchetto	Posted - 2007.01.09 16:36:00 - [312] Dammit calm down with the drama people! McBob will be dead before 2007 is out, and there will be new geo-political realities for you to ponder on
Lord Dynastron Mystical Knights	Posted - 2007.01.09 17:53:00 - [313] Originally by: El Marchetto Dammit calm down with the drama people! McBob will be dead before 2007 is out, and there will be new geo-political realities for you to ponder on I dunno,, BoB, in essence, was around before alliances (Delvians if you will).... my point being they have been around a LONG time. What would you say.... 70% of the time Eve has been online? I suspect they are going no-where fast,,, except of course into your outposts.
Redbad Minmatar Gingerbread Reapers Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.09 18:10:00 - [314] Originally by: El Marchetto Dammit calm down with the drama people! McBob will be dead before 2007 is out, and there will be new geo-political realities for you to ponder on Wasn't that the same I heard about Red Alliance a year back? Everyone who claims sovereignty on the map deserves some respect as its quite an endeavour to keep it. EVE is a very competitive game and its skills like witts, obstinacy, common sense and logistics that keeps an alliance where it is on the map. Much respect to all who can maintain themselves in a situation in which sovereignty is involved and especially the players that put effort in it. Because, no effort no gain ... thats EVE.
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.09 18:13:00 - [315] Quick question to all the conspiracy nuts: If BoB is full of Devs, GMs, ISD, whatever, why did it take them so long to get together in one alliance? Hinting that we get insider information is also bogus. Maybe we seem to know more because we put the effort in to finding out? I have lost count of the "I AM NOT PAID TO TEST EVE!!!" posts after each patch, when people are moaning about game changes or bugs on TQ, and it is suggested that maybe if they had logged on to the test server they may have spotted the issue before it went live. If they had helped test on Sisi, maybe they would know more, and would be able to see what changes they might have to adapt to? Hell, they might even help stop the odd bug slipping through, non? The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur
Becham Templars of Space CORE.	Posted - 2007.01.09 19:09:00 - [316] Quote: If BoB is full of Devs, GMs, ISD, whatever, why did it take them so long to get together in one alliance? Hinting that we get insider information is also bogus. Maybe we seem to know more because we put the effort in to finding out? I have lost count of the "I AM NOT PAID TO TEST EVE!!!" posts after each patch, when people are moaning about game changes or bugs on TQ, and it is suggested that maybe if they had logged on to the test server they may have spotted the issue before it went live. If they had helped test on Sisi, maybe they would know more, and would be able to see what changes they might have to adapt to? Hell, they might even help stop the odd bug slipping through, non? Who really knows for sure how your alliance is affected by CCP staff playing on your team? 1. Some CCP staff members are on your team. 2. They have the power to cheat. As long as those two elements exist, it is only natural that you will find 'conspiracy nuts' crying foul. A shame too, because I highly doubt that BoB success is a direct result of CCP staffer misdeeds.
Iorya Dragon Aliastra	Posted - 2007.01.09 20:09:00 - [317] Edited by: Iorya Dragon on 09/01/2007 20:09:00 Edited by: Iorya Dragon on 09/01/2007 20:07:01 I dont like BOB, because of their coordination, and dedication i consider them the I-WIN button, and some of my friends joined them, and confirmed their coordination and logistics, and for that i respect them, but i like a challenge, that the easy road. Yes i dont like their whorum warriors, and their propaganda, but is smart, most of you guys eat that **** lol. Now to come to a point. BOB is not ur average alliance, because Sir Molle and the other directors, manage to pull a group of dedicated player that can coordinate with each other for the better of corp, alliance, thus the better of all members. On the other hand most of the alleciances in EVE, corps, dont even manage to get 50% of that coordination, thus the mess we saw with ASCN. When u dont have leader that inspire his followers by facts and good plans, and members to participate, u have ur average alleciance, corp in EVE. Coordination, capable leaders, and not accepting any member, brings and good bunch of group. ASCN, Celes and other had a great bunch of players, but poor leadership..when that happends...ppl leave, or get conquered! OP - u are on of those that shoulded stay in WOW lolz. BOB - i am not fan, but respect! Like that guy in DOW said: Knowledge is power, guard it well.
Yumiko Takagawa	Posted - 2007.01.09 20:42:00 - [318] Edited by: Yumiko Takagawa on 09/01/2007 20:39:14 No one argues that BoB achievements are remarkable and they have good leaders and tons of dedicated pilots. But there only can be 1 BoB in game. No other alliance will ever accumulate such an extensive library of combat oriented T2 BPOs and the amount of PvPing 2004 chars is limited too. May be if 2 different alliances were forming up at the same time, following the same principles, the other one could have been a match for BoB. But it's clear that other alliances pursued different goals and had worse leaders, or didn't have enough trust inside the HC to go the way BoB did. On the other hand, no new alliance, no matter how dedicated it is, can match the power of BoB. It looks they have it all, good leaders, dedicated and very experienced PvP force, and strong industrial backbone, working for one goal - military machine, and not ISK making for BPO owners at the expense of the alliance members. BoB certainly can't kill Eve, Eve is too big and too diverse for that, but they can probably kill a 0.0 political game and that's a pity.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.09 20:43:00 - [319] ^ you just had to bump this post didn't you! Best Dressed Corp of 2006 and 2007! -Marcus TheMartin
Karlemgne The Black Fleet	Posted - 2007.01.09 21:03:00 - [320] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Just add 2 more cents. I have worked on MMO development in the past. And the last thing i would want to do, or any of my fellow work partners, was to play the game seriously out of time job. You get too tired of it to play it seriously. I reaally doub any developer plays as anything mroe than a pirate of a member of a minor corp. Also they are not stupid! They would not prejudice EVE balance and success just because of their virtual ego. Please.. think a bit. Developers are ( usually in most games) have a special type of ego that cannot be contained inside a game. They would give crap for having the biggest alliance. Their ego is more about disputing how good its invented feature was or how fast his code is. As game developer its almost no fun to achieve in game results, most of fun is of seeing your hard work , working properly and seeing that people gets happy, staisfied or annoyied with it. GMs might be different, i knew a few game where GMs really moved a few pieces behind courtains, but that is rare. Not me. Having also worked in MMO development, I loved playing my game... even after staring at it for 14 hours at work. -Karl

Ab Initio Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.09 21:06:00 - [321] Originally by: Helen Tranter True to a point but they also play the gamesmanship game of pushing the rules to the limit knowing that they will be warned before getting band. This and there interferance with others TS and all the other noob tactics they use will only spoil the game for many. Including thoughs that are part of Bob. It's amazing how so many people outside BoB feel that they can speak with authority regarding our MO. I imagine as an alliance, we have collectively racked up quite a few forum warnings (what alliance hasn't). But as far as game play goes, your post is just nonsense. We don't push the limits of what is acceptable in game at all. In fact we actually hold ourselves to a significantly higher standard than the rules dictate.
Karlemgne The Black Fleet	Posted - 2007.01.09 21:07:00 - [322] Originally by: Blacklight You're all nuts if you think BoB is infested with Devs, GMs and ISD and that we somehow benefit from that. How would we benefit, you think our ships magically have more hitpoints when we go into combat, that our guns do more damage, that our POS's mine more moon minerals? Seriously what on earth are you all smoking? It's the same in every game, the top players always get accused of hacking or being devs or some other utterly mindless drivel anything but people admitting 'gosh they're just a little bit good at this game'. Of course in true Monty Python style loads of nitwits will come out of the woodwork screaming "only the messiah would deny his divinity, he is the messiah!". Lo and behold because we've got an IQ bigger than a goldfish and actually know that our alliance isn't riddled with Devs, GMs and ISD... that we most certainly don't have any magical dev granted abilities... and say so in public.. the opposite must be true! I don't know why I bother posting a denial to be honest, some of you whacko's will always claim it to be otherwise. If you put half as much effort and grey matter into actually succeeding at Eve it might not be BoB at the top of the food chain, heaven help us but some of YOU might actually get there too! Specially for you nutters it's time to dig out a new sig. If you don't understand how dev participation changes the game, and in particular, adds to the strength of the alliances the devs are in, I don't know what to say. It completely obvious to disinterested parties (such as myself.) The fact that ALL the devs are in BoB is somewhat disconcerting, and rightly so. -Karl
Ab Initio Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.09 21:17:00 - [323] Originally by: Karlemgne If you don't understand how dev participation changes the game, and in particular, adds to the strength of the alliances the devs are in, I don't know what to say. It completely obvious to disinterested parties (such as myself.) The fact that ALL the devs are in BoB is somewhat disconcerting, and rightly so. -Karl So sometime over the last 11 pages, we managed to go from: No devs in BoB -> Some devs in BoB -> ALL DEVS IN BOB!!11!! You're a lost cause mate.
Tarkan Kador Amarr PanTarkan Kador Holdings	Posted - 2007.01.09 21:54:00 - [324] Look, if the devs are helping an alliance they are in, they aren't going to admit to it. Nor is the alliance being helped going to admit that it happens. Regardless, its CCP's game. They can do anything they want and have it be alright, and if you don't like it, you can always leave. If they want to give BoB an extra Titan because of BoB's contributions to fair play, they have the right. I do know one thing though, on CCP's website it says: "CCP encourages respect, dialog, interaction and cooperation on a deeper level between its employees and customers than is common in online games." Now I don't know about you, but I have not personally seen this "deeper level." Not that I care so much. I mean, a customer is what I am. I don't expect to be treated like a partner, or a friend. What I do expect is the same consideration for the same fee as anyone else, and if one customer or group of customers gets better service/more responsive service/better access than I do, I would like to know how much one has to pay to get that extra level of service. An equal sub fee should get an equal level of basics from the provider, but CCP's entire mission is not about giving every customer the same service, but rather, "cooperation on a deeper level," which implies to me favorites. Fine for the greyshards and emulators CCP was involved with back when they were hobbyists, but I don't pay a premium price for greyshard habits. I'd venture to say that those who experience that "deeper level" are few and far between, as it is impossible for CCP to establish that "deeper level" with every one of the thousands and thousands of customers CCP has. I'm sure if BoB has a problem, their petitions get answered right away. Unlike the thousands of others, who get the form letter. Not all unfairness has to be a blatant cheat. It could be as simple as doing your job with greater rapidity and care than typical for those one considers to be friends. So then the question becomes, who is on this "deeper level" with CCP staff, and who are just statistics on a revenue page? What does one have to do to get to that "deeper level," and can anybody not on that "deeper level" ever hope to get there?
Lone Bear Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.09 21:59:00 - [325] Edited by: Lone Bear on 09/01/2007 21:57:23 And we all received: - 1 Pink Dread from Eris - 1 Red titan from Oveur - 1 Blue Mothership from Tux - 1 Corvus from LeMonde for X-mas. Edit: forgot to mention the Polaris Frigate from ISD team with " We ♥ BoB " on its tail
Rexthor Hammerfists Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.09 22:19:00 - [326] "I'm sure if BoB has a problem, their petitions get answered right away. Unlike the thousands of others, who get the form letter. Not all unfairness has to be a blatant cheat. It could be as simple as doing your job with greater rapidity and care than typical for those one considers to be friends." i lost my whole caldari battleship 5 skill to a stupid clonebug and petitioned it like a month ago, no answer yet. - Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
Izo Azlion Veto.	Posted - 2007.01.09 22:20:00 - [327] All good things must come to an end. To BoB, BoB is a good thing. It'll end, jus might not be yet. Izo Azlion. --- Cortes owned my Sig. :/
Rift Scorn Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.09 22:20:00 - [328] Originally by: Tarkan Kador Look, if the devs are helping an alliance they are in, they aren't going to admit to it. Nor is the alliance being helped going to admit that it happens. Regardless, its CCP's game. They can do anything they want and have it be alright, and if you don't like it, you can always leave. If they want to give BoB an extra Titan because of BoB's contributions to fair play, they have the right. I do know one thing though, on CCP's website it says: "CCP encourages respect, dialog, interaction and cooperation on a deeper level between its employees and customers than is common in online games." Now I don't know about you, but I have not personally seen this "deeper level." Not that I care so much. I mean, a customer is what I am. I don't expect to be treated like a partner, or a friend. What I do expect is the same consideration for the same fee as anyone else, and if one customer or group of customers gets better service/more responsive service/better access than I do, I would like to know how much one has to pay to get that extra level of service. An equal sub fee should get an equal level of basics from the provider, but CCP's entire mission is not about giving every customer the same service, but rather, "cooperation on a deeper level," which implies to me favorites. Fine for the greyshards and emulators CCP was involved with back when they were hobbyists, but I don't pay a premium price for greyshard habits. I'd venture to say that those who experience that "deeper level" are few and far between, as it is impossible for CCP to establish that "deeper level" with every one of the thousands and thousands of customers CCP has. I'm sure if BoB has a problem, their petitions get answered right away. Unlike the thousands of others, who get the form letter. Not all unfairness has to be a blatant cheat. It could be as simple as doing your job with greater rapidity and care than typical for those one considers to be friends. So then the question becomes, who is on this "deeper level" with CCP staff, and who are just statistics on a revenue page? What does one have to do to get to that "deeper level," and can anybody not on that "deeper level" ever hope to get there? Brilliant! Funniest.Reply.Ever. Your friendly clone activation expert, free of service to the eve community since '03
Mira deVorsha	Posted - 2007.01.09 22:27:00 - [329] ROFL.. I can't believe this it went from "Bob = eve over" to "Bob = Devs love them". Cop the heck on. Why in gods name would any Dev risk their job to do something they can pretty much do what they like? Every MMO I am aware of has huge monitoring in place to stop GM's from cheating. Every MMO I've played has fired a GM/Dev for cheating.
Ab Initio Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.09 22:30:00 - [330] Originally by: Tarkan Kador Look, if the devs are helping an alliance they are in, they aren't going to admit to it. Nor is the alliance being helped going to admit that it happens. Regardless, its CCP's game. They can do anything they want and have it be alright, and if you don't like it, you can always leave. If they want to give BoB an extra Titan because of BoB's contributions to fair play, they have the right. I do know one thing though, on CCP's website it says: "CCP encourages respect, dialog, interaction and cooperation on a deeper level between its employees and customers than is common in online games." Now I don't know about you, but I have not personally seen this "deeper level." Not that I care so much. I mean, a customer is what I am. I don't expect to be treated like a partner, or a friend. What I do expect is the same consideration for the same fee as anyone else, and if one customer or group of customers gets better service/more responsive service/better access than I do, I would like to know how much one has to pay to get that extra level of service. An equal sub fee should get an equal level of basics from the provider, but CCP's entire mission is not about giving every customer the same service, but rather, "cooperation on a deeper level," which implies to me favorites. Fine for the greyshards and emulators CCP was involved with back when they were hobbyists, but I don't pay a premium price for greyshard habits. I'd venture to say that those who experience that "deeper level" are few and far between, as it is impossible for CCP to establish that "deeper level" with every one of the thousands and thousands of customers CCP has. I'm sure if BoB has a problem, their petitions get answered right away. Unlike the thousands of others, who get the form letter. Not all unfairness has to be a blatant cheat. It could be as simple as doing your job with greater rapidity and care than typical for those one considers to be friends. So then the question becomes, who is on this "deeper level" with CCP staff, and who are just statistics on a revenue page? What does one have to do to get to that "deeper level," and can anybody not on that "deeper level" ever hope to get there? I don't know how many other MMORPG games you've played, but the majority of them don't have devs and GMs that freely chat and get involved on their forums, hold IRC interviews , host events like EVETV and FanFest and plenty of other community based items. I imagine this is the "deeper level" they mention, as it's a lot better than any other game I've played. As for petition assumptions, my last reimbursment took over a month. That was even with the fact that the time I was killed was during DT!

Karlemgne The Black Fleet	Posted - 2007.01.10 01:13:00 - [331] Originally by: Ab Initio Originally by: Tarkan Kador Look, if the devs are helping an alliance they are in, they aren't going to admit to it. Nor is the alliance being helped going to admit that it happens. Regardless, its CCP's game. They can do anything they want and have it be alright, and if you don't like it, you can always leave. If they want to give BoB an extra Titan because of BoB's contributions to fair play, they have the right. I do know one thing though, on CCP's website it says: "CCP encourages respect, dialog, interaction and cooperation on a deeper level between its employees and customers than is common in online games." Now I don't know about you, but I have not personally seen this "deeper level." Not that I care so much. I mean, a customer is what I am. I don't expect to be treated like a partner, or a friend. What I do expect is the same consideration for the same fee as anyone else, and if one customer or group of customers gets better service/more responsive service/better access than I do, I would like to know how much one has to pay to get that extra level of service. An equal sub fee should get an equal level of basics from the provider, but CCP's entire mission is not about giving every customer the same service, but rather, "cooperation on a deeper level," which implies to me favorites. Fine for the greyshards and emulators CCP was involved with back when they were hobbyists, but I don't pay a premium price for greyshard habits. I'd venture to say that those who experience that "deeper level" are few and far between, as it is impossible for CCP to establish that "deeper level" with every one of the thousands and thousands of customers CCP has. I'm sure if BoB has a problem, their petitions get answered right away. Unlike the thousands of others, who get the form letter. Not all unfairness has to be a blatant cheat. It could be as simple as doing your job with greater rapidity and care than typical for those one considers to be friends. So then the question becomes, who is on this "deeper level" with CCP staff, and who are just statistics on a revenue page? What does one have to do to get to that "deeper level," and can anybody not on that "deeper level" ever hope to get there? I don't know how many other MMORPG games you've played, but the majority of them don't have devs and GMs that freely chat and get involved on their forums, hold IRC interviews , host events like EVETV and FanFest and plenty of other community based items. I imagine this is the "deeper level" they mention, as it's a lot better than any other game I've played. As for petition assumptions, my last reimbursment took over a month. That was even with the fact that the time I was killed was during DT! Eve TV is unique. That other stuff? Fanfests, interviews, forum posts, etc... most MMO companies/devs host this stuff. And EVE t.v. doesn't justify, in my mind, dev participation in your alliance. And I'm completely impartial here, have rarely encountered BoB, and am not whining about you wining wars. -Karl
Blacklight Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.10 01:16:00 - [332] Originally by: Karlemgne And I'm completely impartial here, have rarely encountered BoB, and am not whining about you wining wars. This is priceless, you're impartial, you have rarely encountered us and yet you somehow know that all the devs are in BoB? Really, what planet are you on and where can I get the same drugs as you? Your sig exceeds 24,000 bytes. Please resize it so that it is under that amount. -Conuion Meow ([email protected]) Blog
Ab Initio Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.10 01:30:00 - [333] Originally by: Karlemgne And I'm completely impartial here, have rarely encountered BoB, and am not whining about you wining wars. That sums up your authority to talk on the subject nicely. I won't reply to any of your drivel again, and I'm sorry that I made the mistake of doing it in the first place. You're doing a better job of discrediting yourself than I ever could.
Karlemgne The Black Fleet	Posted - 2007.01.10 01:35:00 - [334] Edited by: Karlemgne on 10/01/2007 01:32:41 Originally by: Blacklight Originally by: Karlemgne And I'm completely impartial here, have rarely encountered BoB, and am not whining about you wining wars. This is priceless, you're impartial, you have rarely encountered us and yet you somehow know that all the devs are in BoB? Really, what planet are you on and where can I get the same drugs as you? Are you trying to make me partial? What about me suggesting that CCP employee involvment in EVE as players might be bad causes such hostility in you? Have you ever heard the saying "I think thou protests too much?" As to where I get my information, I get it from the place everyone else does. I watch EVE t.v., read the articles, the interviews, and talk to my fellow players. Pretty much, in this thread, other members of your alliance have admited as much as there is CCP employee players in BoB and defended them. I am honestly not anti-BoB in general. This is my main, I fly only in empire, and have rarely encountered you guys. In fact, if you scroll up a bit, I defend BoB (I don't think you guys are going to conquer the eveverse), and CCP's right to actually play their game... I just think you need two servers for it to be fair. However, your attitude, in particular, makes BoB look bad in my eyes. -Karlemgne
Locus Bey	Posted - 2007.01.10 01:36:00 - [335] 1. BoB's BPO collection. ISK doesn't win a war as the fall of ASCN proves. And if you think BoB is the only alliance or corp with an extensive BPO collection you are wrong. You command an area of 0.0 and the universe is your oyster ISK and BPO wise. 2. Devs in BoB Who cares? It seems to me only those armchair strategists. BoB doesn't need Dev's. They win because they are organized, experienced, and clever. Most alliances are can't capable of being BoB because at the first sign of difficulty they fall to internal problems. BoB has great leadership. the rarest commodity in EVE. 3. Stop whining. Do something....
Black Atom Caldari Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.01.10 03:31:00 - [336] My Guide to Beating BoB 1. Plan out 2 100+ person fleets, complete with capital ships and the like. Maybe D2+RA 2. Take said fleets and siege BoB in two locations, with 150 people online in alliance at max they can have 75 in each location. They will probably go after one fleet to scare it off, then go after the second. 3. Hope that said fleet they go after is competent enough to hold them at bay long enough for the other to succeed. 4. Success, you've sieged atleast one BoB system. 5. Repeat steps 1-4 until BoB is dismantled. To rib it for her pleasure, add a third fleet (Goons). From my point of view this is the early game of Siege Warfare, with more and more people coming to the game it's going to be very very difficult for a single entity to fend off multiple front wars against organized groups. Large scale co-ordination of BoB's opponents will likely be it's downfall, which is only made more and more likely as their empire expands across the galaxy. They've said it more than a few times that this is what they're looking for, the ultimate fight to test them. shrugs Who knows, maybe sometime in 2007 it'll happen.
El Marchetto	Posted - 2007.01.10 06:39:00 - [337] Originally by: Locus Bey 1. BoB's BPO collection. ISK doesn't win a war as the fall of ASCN proves. And if you think BoB is the only alliance or corp with an extensive BPO collection you are wrong. You command an area of 0.0 and the universe is your oyster ISK and BPO wise. 2. Devs in BoB Who cares? It seems to me only those armchair strategists. BoB doesn't need Dev's. They win because they are organized, experienced, and clever. Most alliances are can't capable of being BoB because at the first sign of difficulty they fall to internal problems. BoB has great leadership. the rarest commodity in EVE. 3. Stop whining. Do something.... Post with your main
Locus Bey	Posted - 2007.01.10 08:16:00 - [338] Originally by: El Marchetto Originally by: Locus Bey 1. BoB's BPO collection. ISK doesn't win a war as the fall of ASCN proves. And if you think BoB is the only alliance or corp with an extensive BPO collection you are wrong. You command an area of 0.0 and the universe is your oyster ISK and BPO wise. 2. Devs in BoB Who cares? It seems to me only those armchair strategists are complaining. BoB doesn't need Dev's. They win because they are organized, experienced, and clever. Most alliances aren't capable of being BoB because at the first sign of difficulty they fall to internal problems. BoB has great leadership. the rarest commodity in EVE. 3. Stop whining. Do something.... Post with your main Is my main as far as i know Lets not forget the history of those corps in BoB. BoB didn' get where they are by blind chance or Dev hands up their bums
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.10 09:39:00 - [339] LOl to everyone that says BOB has all the developers.. LOL you really never knows any game developer in your life didn't you. If, and only if devs would play the game seriously, i would bet my dinner that they would be scattered among aliances each one trying to **** the other. The toughs that davelpers would control an alliance is so plain immature, really. Please, these people have slightly no idea how controlling the game you made is completely non intersesting, not fun, not a chalange at all. And these are the maisn things that make a game developer (usually) mind flow. I have only 1 thing to say... LOOOOOOOLLL!!!! Personally I don't like bob, just because i am the type that usually sympathises for the weakest side. But I am not childish to start myths like that. About some petitiosn getting answered before. Sure, if i was aGM i would pay attention more on the petitions abou 200 BSlost than on the one about a frigate lost, sicne that affects more of the game universe balance. If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!!
Nathaniel Hull Caldari Finis Lumen The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2007.01.10 10:17:00 - [340] Edited by: Nathaniel Hull on 10/01/2007 10:15:44 Win EVE? OMG BBQ!!!!! GODZILLA GODZILLA. 1) All things will come to an end even your precious EvE and BoB. 2) Id say well over half the players dont even venture into 0.0 and carebear.....Except ISS they carebear in 0.0 btw see u guys in Jita soon...especiall j00 PRAX. But I digress...bascially BoB cant control EVE in the slightest for the majority of players. 3) Even BoB knows it cant keep expanding unless it goes all crusade all or nothing and that only had one end when eventually they over extend and die. BoB no matter how annoyingly powerfull actually beat an enemy in ASCN probably richer than themselves. cudos btw guys. With all of that said it would be nice to see CCP instate a better system for the T2 BPOs as it would make things easier on most players. All the Whining on this post is basically about WAAAH WAAAH they have T2 BPOs and I want em too WAAAH.

Karlemgne The Black Fleet	Posted - 2007.01.10 14:04:00 - [341] Originally by: Kagura Nikon LOl to everyone that says BOB has all the developers.. LOL you really never knows any game developer in your life didn't you. I used to work on MMOs, so yeah, I have. -Karl
Prestidigitator Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier	Posted - 2007.01.11 12:08:00 - [342] What i'm finding pricelessly funny is that the OP managed to shoehorn the blame onto bob for him not having enough T2 BPO's... ...followed by 12 pages of OMG BOB! posts. Best piece of trolling yet - pick a big issue of the hour, link it in some convoluted way to the point you want to make (me wanty many T2 BPO!) and stand back. Take it from the mouth of the vanquished here ...BoB didn't beat ASCN because of their T2 BPO monopoly ;)
Fitz Chivalry eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.11 13:05:00 - [343] T2 lottery is the worst, most stupid thing ever to happen to EVE. The idea that you just hand someone for zero effort a print that could be worth 100,000,000,000 isk is just insane. With that said, I doubt BoB will win EvE. Its already getting pretty flabby which causes problems, either the flab gets lazy or it gets bored or their get to be too many egos and not enough kudos (you only have to look at how ****ed off the DICE guys were by the whole "bob lite" thing to see that) which leads to people splitting off. You also have people wanting to be part of a small elite force a la the Spartans in the new 300 film (god i love that trailer), fighting against the odds etc and you cant do that if you are part of one of the biggest alliances out there. These guys want to shine and its hard to do that when you are in a big blob of your peers. I think you will see bob pilots splitting off to form 0utbreak stlye l33t pvp corps before too long unless their leads can come up with another war and another manufactured "outrage" to keep people focused.
Fitz Chivalry eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.11 13:08:00 - [344] Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists "I'm sure if BoB has a problem, their petitions get answered right away. Unlike the thousands of others, who get the form letter. Not all unfairness has to be a blatant cheat. It could be as simple as doing your job with greater rapidity and care than typical for those one considers to be friends." i lost my whole caldari battleship 5 skill to a stupid clonebug and petitioned it like a month ago, no answer yet. I had something similar happen to me. Apparently it was due to a little known feature called "Remembering to upgrade your clone following a podding". Lousy game.
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.11 13:37:00 - [345] Edited by: fire 59 on 11/01/2007 13:34:39 Originally by: Black Atom My Guide to Beating BoB 1. Plan out 2 100+ person fleets, complete with capital ships and the like. Maybe D2+RA 2. Take said fleets and siege BoB in two locations, with 150 people online in alliance at max they can have 75 in each location. They will probably go after one fleet to scare it off, then go after the second. 3. Hope that said fleet they go after is competent enough to hold them at bay long enough for the other to succeed. 4. Success, you've sieged atleast one BoB system. 5. Repeat steps 1-4 until BoB is dismantled. To rib it for her pleasure, add a third fleet (Goons). From my point of view this is the early game of Siege Warfare, with more and more people coming to the game it's going to be very very difficult for a single entity to fend off multiple front wars against organized groups. Large scale co-ordination of BoB's opponents will likely be it's downfall, which is only made more and more likely as their empire expands across the galaxy. They've said it more than a few times that this is what they're looking for, the ultimate fight to test them. shrugs Who knows, maybe sometime in 2007 it'll happen. That's a fair assumption. I love thes guy's because they share the same mentality as myself. If we were swarmed with enemie's and lost battle's, lost our outpost's and titan, if we lost our capital fleet and pos's. I believe that with the mentality in BoB, that we would become even more dangerous and bloodthirsty. The alliance has a predigree for stamina and learning from mistake's. We will get gangbanged at some point and it will be awesome, we'll either have what happened in my previous paragraph or we'll hold our own, there morale will weaken as they wonder why aren't they breaking, were outblobbing them and they keep fighting. The enemy coalition will tire of losing so many capital ships and bs etc etc, will thin down in numbers and BoB momentum will drive them away and pursue them all the way back and kick the crap out of them, one at a time That's what will happen in my opinion as a member of bob, no propoganda or whatever, just my honest opinion Edit - I forgot to add i love alliance sized warfare and don't mind gatecamping or pos bashing because even the boring thing's are a neccesary evil to get the job done
D ROYAL	Posted - 2007.02.02 12:24:00 - [346] D Royal PIRATEN II NOW RECRUITING pilots of all types noobs miners pvpers capital pilots more ships more reserves more power and an Alliance like none other is soon on the way an Alliance that will shatter all benchmarks today. The plan is yet a fertile seed it will take a year or so to realise but I will get there' and i know u will get there with me PIRATEN II isnt just a pirate corp but also a college in the dark arts a wealth of knowledge and support for its members. PLAYER OWNED STATIONS ready for launch, with all the plans to make monthly dividends for its members a mining outpost ready for launch also and Capital built ships from PIRATEN II also. I have been in many corps I have been here since the start of EVE and have done and seen MUCH. the most important traits for me in a corp are good members TRUSTWORTHY who will defend u to the hill wrong or right and hand out the Rollecking after. Members should not fear being kicked from the corp for not being in an op. Tax should be spent wisely and translucently all memebrs have audit VEIW enabled. Not feathering the nests of the CEO CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER or Directors as is usually the case. a CEO who is active along with his directors is 100% crucial in my corp regular meetings plans aims goals Targets and objectives on a weekly basis is the order of the day in PIRATEN II. THERE IS NOTHING WORSE THAN BEING IN A STIMULI FREE environment it numbs the mind LOOK at the majority of the alliances ine eve to see it for ur self. Focusless/ stagnation and Alliance implosion is usually the latter stage is. MY CORP IS A CORP WITH AIMS JUST BECUASE IT HAS A Skull and bones doesnt mean missoning mining trading plexing are banned , quite the reverse really it better a corp have all this and much more on the drawing board is my philosphy. A CORP that communicates TEAMSPEAK server ready. "A team that communicates is a team that succeeds". Help, THIS IS the most important aspect of a well run organisation to be able to give knowledge or support to grow ones members, "with knowlege comes POWER". with help comes trust. D ROYAL welcomes all And I Know in my heart that with knowledge as my Armor trust as my Defender AND Loyalty As mY Sword This corpoaration soon to be Alliance, we will walk hand in hand United under the PIRATEN II Banner Rellentlessly bringing order where there is Chaos and I will shine the torch of justice and hope where there is Despair. THIS WILL HAPPEN. join PIRATEN II TODAY THIS WILL BE THE BEGINING OF A 1000 MEMBER CORPORATION THEN AN ALLIANCE UNLIKE NONE BEFORE contact D Royal INGAME IN PERSON OR VIA INGAME MAIL.ALL RACES ALL LANGUAGES ALL TIMEZONES THE MORE THE BETTER. thank u for reading and C U IN EVE
Wotar	Posted - 2007.02.02 12:27:00 - [347]
Cyrano Tyranus	Posted - 2007.02.02 13:28:00 - [348] wow is this still going? I think the prize for the corp PR manager goes to The OP. Wether he is BOB alt or not, he has certainly put BOB in the spotlight and publicity os always a good thing for a Corp.
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2007.02.02 13:44:00 - [349] Well you know back in the day...Huzzah gave BoB a bloody nose, and a fat lip...not to mention that black eye. They are not supper human gameing machines...they can and have been fought. If you as the players of Eve think BoB is a threat....well there is one and only one solution. Take them out. In the mean time Go BoB Go...got $100.00 on a bet.... Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Verbol Kint	Posted - 2007.02.02 13:46:00 - [350] Originally by: fire 59 [ The alliance has a predigree for stamina and learning from mistake's. And a bunch of Devs in the alliance doesn't hurt either.

Taipan Gedscho Taipan Industries	Posted - 2007.02.02 13:48:00 - [351] Originally by: Reshei ...The main factor in BoB overcomming so many people, not just ASCN, is the fact that they have such a huge amount of money that it is frankly incomprehensible. Trillions of ISK are controlled by that alliance through their BPOs of tech 2 gear. Therefore, it is inevitable that they will overcome anyone that comes up against them. There is just no way that anyone else in the game can compete with that kind of raw financial might. It is raw financial might that won World War II and every other war that was ever fought. Patton was once quoted as saying "tactics win battles but LOGISTICS win wars". So are we looking at the takeover of the whole Eve world by one organization? The problem with this is that there is no way for anyone to compete with BoB. No matter how hard someone works, it is impossible for them to get the kind of raw resources that BoB has and CONTINUES to compile. The main reason for this is the fact that BoB ownes so many tech 2 blueprints and makes so much money off of them that "winning the lottery" hardly covers it. The reality of the situation is that this aspect alone means that no one else can compete.... i love the text from the op until the spot he makes his turn to invention. it makes bob not only look like the (insert starwars music here) empire, but also gives you this feeling i got in rl... you know, rich corps getting richer and powerful everyday... and no matter what you buy you gonna support some corp that is producing/fundind landmines/terrorists/governments. SO I HEREBY ANNOUNCE THE "AGAINST SHOPPING"-MOVEMENT everybody hereby is advised to only use looted and selfmanufactured t1(named) modules/ships/implants. this is the only way to stop the iskflow for bob. or something. WE ARE THE PEOPLE.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.02 13:53:00 - [352] Where do you people dig up these threads from? This thread was garbage then and its garbage now let it die Half Assed Rhymage
JForce N.W.A Soldiers of the Forgotten Abyss	Posted - 2007.02.02 14:00:00 - [353] It's not garbage when you read the BoB comments in relation to dev participation, in light of recent information that's come to light. It's one of the few places where people can discuss this issue. There are serious allegations currently, such as: BoB knowing event plans ahead of time, the information coming directly from CCP, allowing BoB to plan their participation and profit from the events A CCP employee becoming a BoB director, and possibly providing multiple tech2 BPOs to the alliance BoB accounts being treated less harshly than others when evidence of account trading surfaces There are many others. Are they true? I have no idea at this stage. Is it worth discussing? Hell yes.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.02 14:09:00 - [354] Originally by: JForce It's not garbage when you read the BoB comments in relation to dev participation, in light of recent information that's come to light. It's one of the few places where people can discuss this issue. There are serious allegations currently, such as: BoB knowing event plans ahead of time, the information coming directly from CCP, allowing BoB to plan their participation and profit from the events A CCP employee becoming a BoB director, and possibly providing multiple tech2 BPOs to the alliance BoB accounts being treated less harshly than others when evidence of account trading surfaces There are many others. Are they true? I have no idea at this stage. Is it worth discussing? Hell yes. But why on this forum why does all the COAD drama always spill over here? All these OMG BOB threads were annoying during the war and annoying now. And you may have noticed my sig but its just for fun . If you want to discuss it please do so in a thread that doesn't have such a ridiculous title Half Assed Rhymage
Frug SYOID Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.02.02 14:16:00 - [355] Originally by: JForce BoB knowing event plans ahead of time, the information coming directly from CCP, allowing BoB to plan their participation and profit from the events Events like what? I get the impression they have things like wars keeping them busy so I'm wondering what 'events' they'd even care about. Originally by: JForce A CCP employee becoming a BoB director, and possibly providing multiple tech2 BPOs to the alliance Sounds quite unlikely but that would be total garbage and I'd like to see the name of this mysterious CCP employee and get a formal denial. At least get his name dude. Originally by: JForce BoB accounts being treated less harshly than others when evidence of account trading surfaces I'm pretty sure they have accounts of their own that they'd be pretty happy with... - - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - or automatic signatures - - - - - - - -
James Snowscoran Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.02 14:26:00 - [356] Originally by: JForce It's not garbage when you read the BoB comments in relation to dev participation, in light of recent information that's come to light. It's one of the few places where people can discuss this issue. There are serious allegations currently, such as: BoB knowing event plans ahead of time, the information coming directly from CCP, allowing BoB to plan their participation and profit from the events A CCP employee becoming a BoB director, and possibly providing multiple tech2 BPOs to the alliance BoB accounts being treated less harshly than others when evidence of account trading surfaces There are many others. Are they true? I have no idea at this stage. Is it worth discussing? Hell yes. You can't actually discuss it though. There was a big stickied thread on the subject that made 24 pages very quickly and got loked by Kieron. Trying to discuss it in another thread is just asking to get it locked too, not to mention necroing... So IBTL -----
DarkFenix Caldari Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.02 14:31:00 - [357] Originally by: JForce It's not garbage when you read the BoB comments in relation to dev participation, in light of recent information that's come to light. It's one of the few places where people can discuss this issue. There are serious allegations currently, such as: BoB knowing event plans ahead of time, the information coming directly from CCP, allowing BoB to plan their participation and profit from the events A CCP employee becoming a BoB director, and possibly providing multiple tech2 BPOs to the alliance BoB accounts being treated less harshly than others when evidence of account trading surfaces There are many others. Are they true? I have no idea at this stage. Is it worth discussing? Hell yes. This has already been discussed in CAOD, been locked, discussed in another topic in GD, locked, and now an old BoB thread gets necroed to discuss it again . There isn't actually any point in discussing it anyway. CCP are investigating it, nobody else can really make any properly informed and trustworthy points on the matter. All topics like this do is lead to the inevitable flaming of BoB and the topic's eventual locking.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.02.02 14:35:00 - [358] IBTL IASBRP (I after stupid bob related post) IMAA (I made another acronym) Half Assed Rhymage
Lorth Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.02.02 14:48:00 - [359] This is getting to the point where people are just making stuff up, and actually believing it.

Devil Hanzo Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.02.02 14:48:00 - [360] Locked for necro. Contact us \| Read the rules \| Visit our site \|




Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 .. 13 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.