The thing is you can rsebo or rr the hic before it activates the WDFG so it can quick lock something and then infinite point. To deny remote assistance for simply having a WDFG equipped would probably be too strong of a drawback.

That was kind of what I was getting at, just very poorly worded/slightly misunderstood, I disagree that it would be too strong penalty, have a feeling these will be the new gatecamp cancer ship, ofc I may well be being slightly too paranoid :) We'll see I guess.

As far the TSP thing is concerned, I agree that many pilots will have a lot of the pre reqs already trained, I have cruiser V, proulsion jamming V. To me Grav phys V and HIC V seem ideal candidates to drop TSPs on if this were to become a FOTM ship. Instant HIC pilots were already being mentioned as one of several insta train/new character possibilities for TSPs before these changes were mentioned and FOTM 36km scram HICs will only require a small ish jump in skills for many pilots having most of the skills trained already. I think TSP/FOTM issues are a real *possibility*, a lot would depend on price and if (lol) / when TSPs happen.

I don't think people realise how strong it is to have extra scram range over your opponent. By using it defensively you basically get complete range control. A HIC with its MWD active will have the speed advantage over any other ship in the game when a scram is applied.

I don't think many in this thread are understanding this fact; every extra KM of scram range you give a ship means it is pushing more and more ships into a position where they are in a position where they cannot engage. At 37.5+km you have pushed the majority of ship in eve into this position as they cannot out damage a HIC at this distance.

Oh yeah. That penalty is fine. It's not like a Hictor might need reps at all, especially not when you're tackling a super in low with a buddy Hictor and trading off activations to keep yourselves alive. Hictors definitely don't die enough in their main role, the definitely need to be the kind of ship that not only do you bubble yourself half the time, but when you're not bubbling yourself you are still going to die anyways because you can't get repped.

And very much the same can be said about the current long pointing kiting ships; fly one or watch it orbit you out of reach until you die or the other player gets bored. So it seems that the feedback in this thread can almost be distilled down to two possible options:

1. Implement the HICs as proposed, with a 35km scram, to give everyone not in a Garmur a way to catch one
2. Make the Garmur less powerful somehow.

And very much the same can be said about the current long pointing kiting ships; fly one or watch it orbit you out of reach until you die or the other player gets bored. So it seems that the feedback in this thread can almost be distilled down to two possible options:

1. Implement the HICs as proposed, with a 35km scram, to give everyone not in a Garmur a way to catch one
2. Make the Garmur less powerful somehow.

The Devoter will be pretty nuts in lowsec with snakes, tbh. Remember the Navy Omen can't fit snakes because you need a PG implant to fit 4 guns + MWD + injector + ancillary rep, and that **** is really good. Devoter with the same fit and snakes is just as fast, better tank, does a lot more gun DPS, and has the 38km scram and possibly a web as well.

Give the Garmur / Orthrus the navy maulus treatment.
10% bonus to warp disruptor range, and NOT scrambler range.

10% bonus to Warp Scrambler range (This bonus does not apply to Warp Disruptors)

You have that backwards:

Intented, since I find the defensive scram to make that ship too good.

One things they need to do is add a weapons timer regardless if they shoot back or not. If you get pointed by a HIC with the script on board you will get hit with a one min weapons timer. Which means during that one min you can not dock or jump tho a gate. This can not be repeated. Should be a blue cool down timer of 2 minutes. This will add more risk for people on undock and or trying to jump the gates.

Are you concerned that the reduced gap between T1 and T2 will severely diminish the value of Gravitron Physics V which is only used for T2 WDFG and T2 Capital Tractors?

In my opinion T2 should get the longest point range and Faction and Concord lose fitten requierements
but tell me any reason to train to T2 Graviton Physics 5...
q

Any reason to train Graviton Physics V? How about not spending 150-300m ISK on your faction WDFG?

Got to test out the devoter on SiSi and i believe its going to be a beast. 500+ dps on something with ultimate range control is pretty nasty. I look forward to abusing it on tranquility.

Had a geddon neut me while using the WDFG and didnt seem like much of an issue out at uber scram range. Single medium cap booster was more than enough to keep tackle and rep running. Since neuts have falloff now, its not all that hard to keep them in falloff and basically brush off a medium neuts worth of discharge.

So the whole neuting a HIC out as a counter doesnt seem viable unless youre flying a curse or bhaal. Wont be **** i can do in say a BC. Cant MJD away from it, cant neut it, wont have the dps to kill it at that range. So short of putting 100mn ABs on everything id say bigger ship roaming will die.

Welcome to the new era of Instalock HIC gate campers. Gate camping buff, big ship nerf (cause they really needed it, you know). Combined with the MJD destroyer, these things will be everywhere.

So exactly as I predicted and others had disagreed strongly against. Well I take no satisfaction tbh that my prediction was correct. Hopefully people are slowly beginning to understand that these are too powerful now.

By the way, even putting a 100mn AB on you won't be able to close range or escape the HIC, a BC will max out at around 1500 m/s with a oversized AB, and a HIC with a MWD running will easily outrun and out manoeuvre you. Cruiser and below with oversized ABs might be a good counter, although they will still have the issue of trying to out damage / tank the HIC which is not going to be easy at all given the huge EHP and decent DPS that HICs can put out.

So it seems like the best counter to a HIC will be another HIC. Did we not just get away from Ishtars online?

I am actually surprised though that a geddon with neut range bonus cannot have any effect, that leaves standard heavy neuts and anything with short range weapons with no chance. I expected that to be the case although I did expect the geddon to possibly be a good counter. Perhaps your opponent had low skills as it doesn't seem right that a geddon has no impact even if you are scramming at max range.