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Sticky:[December] Module Tiericide - Warp Disruption Field Generators

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CCP Larrikin C C P C C P Alliance 279	Posted - 2015.11.05 10:33:40 - [1] - Quote Hi M8s! As part of our December release, we're doing a module teiricide pass on Warp Disruption Field Generators. Tell us what you think! Goals Provide meaningful options within the module set Changes Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators now Scramble, disabling MJDs and MWDs Added Meta modules Added Faction modules Changed icon for Warp Disruption Field Generators Stats Warp Disruption Field Generator I [Meta Level 0; Powergrid 80; CPU 50; Activation 150; Mass Modifier -80%; Thrust Bonus -75% (-5); Velocity Bonus -85% (-5); Signature Radius Bonus 50%; Bubble Range 16km] Pitfall Compact Warp Disruption Field Generator [Meta Level 1; Powergrid 76; CPU 45; Activation 150; Mass Modifier -80%; Thrust Bonus -75% (-5); Velocity Bonus -85% (-5); Signature Radius Bonus 50%; Bubble Range 18km] Clutch Restrained Warp Disruption Field Generator [Meta Level 1; Powergrid 80; CPU 50; Activation 150; Mass Modifier -80%; Thrust Bonus -70% (-5); Velocity Bonus -80% (-5); Signature Radius Bonus 50%; Bubble Range 18km] M-36 Enduring Warp Disruption Field Generator [Meta Level 0; Powergrid 80; CPU 50; Activation 100; Mass Modifier -80%; Thrust Bonus -75% (-5); Velocity Bonus -85% (-5); Signature Radius Bonus 50%; Bubble Range 18km] Warp Disruption Field Generator II [Meta Level 0; Powergrid 84; CPU 55; Activation 150; Mass Modifier -80%; Thrust Bonus -80% (-5); Velocity Bonus -90% (-5); Signature Radius Bonus 50%; Bubble Range 20km] Sansha Warp Disruption Field Generator [Meta Level 0; Powergrid 84; CPU 50; Activation 150; Mass Modifier -80%; Thrust Bonus -70% (-5); Velocity Bonus -80% (-5); Signature Radius Bonus 50%; Bubble Range 21km] CONCORD Warp Disruption Field Generator [Meta Level 0; Powergrid 84; CPU 50; Activation 150; Mass Modifier -80%; Thrust Bonus -70% (-5); Velocity Bonus -80% (-5); Signature Radius Bonus 50%; Bubble Range 21km] Link to stats in readable format Q&A Q: Where will we get the new meta and faction modules?! A: Meta modules will drop from NPCs like current meta modules. The Faction modules will drop & be in LP stores like current Sansha and CONCORD modules. Game Designer \| Team Five-0 \| https://twitter.com/CCP_Larrikin

Shala Raan Trillionaire.pro 26	Posted - 2015.11.05 10:39:28 - [2] - Quote I really like the meta variants, however I noticed that the CONCORD and the Sansha ones have similar stats - is that intended? (püñGÿ»ßù£Gÿ»)püñ TRILLIONAIRE.PRO
Mizhir Matari Exodus 74666	Posted - 2015.11.05 10:41:34 - [3] - Quote 30km scram range? Damn that is nasty for kiters. One Man Crew - Collective Solo PVP - Video is out!
cpu939 Eternal Darkness. Blades of Grass 102	Posted - 2015.11.05 10:43:47 - [4] - Quote i really like this
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 32701	Posted - 2015.11.05 10:44:09 - [5] - Quote This isn't random, nope. infinipoint won't be the only thing that will stop MJD destroyers from activating their hand of god micro doomsday. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Tora Bushido EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective 2883	Posted - 2015.11.05 10:45:13 - [6] - Quote When can I join your fan club ? DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !
Bam Stroker Van Diemen's Demise Pandemic Legion 475	Posted - 2015.11.05 10:46:58 - [7] - Quote Tora Bushido wrote: When can I join your fan club ? Hey you get your dirty hands off my man. EVE Down Under - a Fanfest for the AUTZ with CCP Guard, CCP Mimic, CCP Larrikin, CCP Cognac and CCP Puck! 27-29 November 2015 in Sydney, Australia http://www.evedownunder.com

CCP Larrikin C C P C C P Alliance 280	Posted - 2015.11.05 10:50:08 - [8] - Quote Shala Raan wrote: I really like the meta variants, however I noticed that the CONCORD and the Sansha ones have similar stats - is that intended? The faction versions have the same statistics by design. Game Designer \| Team Five-0 \| https://twitter.com/CCP_Larrikin

Basil Vulpine Blueprint Haus Blades of Grass 65	Posted - 2015.11.05 10:52:10 - [9] - Quote I see bubble size on the T2 module is down from 24km to 20km. Does it make more sense to leave the bubble size where it was but adjust the range adjustment of the script so that you control the scripted point range?
ChromeStriker Out of Focus Odin's Call 961	Posted - 2015.11.05 10:54:38 - [10] - Quote Will mean Hics wont need to take up a mid for a scram.... i like it... "double bubbles" as standard. No Worries


CCP Larrikin C C P C C P Alliance 281	Posted - 2015.11.05 10:57:30 - [11] - Quote Basil Vulpine wrote: I see bubble size on the T2 module is down from 24km to 20km. Does it make more sense to leave the bubble size where it was but adjust the range adjustment of the script so that you control the scripted point range? These numbers are pre-skills. T2 with max skills will have a 24km bubble. Game Designer \| Team Five-0 \| https://twitter.com/CCP_Larrikin

xttz GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 730	Posted - 2015.11.05 10:59:23 - [12] - Quote Can you add a note to these modules stating their effect on capital ships using gates? This isn't documented anywhere in-game, only in patch notes.
Airi Cho Dark-Rising Decayed Orbit 110	Posted - 2015.11.05 11:01:33 - [13] - Quote what will be the max range on a fiend?
ChromeStriker Out of Focus Odin's Call 961	Posted - 2015.11.05 11:02:04 - [14] - Quote xttz wrote: Can you add a note to these modules stating their effect on capital ships using gates? This isn't documented anywhere in-game, only in patch notes. And or sations No Worries
xttz GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 730	Posted - 2015.11.05 11:05:07 - [15] - Quote Will warp scramble effects prevent ships being dragged along by the new AoE MJDs?
Saisin Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp Chao3 Alliance 300	Posted - 2015.11.05 11:07:50 - [16] - Quote Very interesting.. I hope the regular focused script will still disrupt up to 30km, and that the scram version will have a range of at least 12 or 13km. This way, the next step would be to make disruption field generator scram script also prevent warping from within a bubble, and this can take care of the nullification of interceptors in a very nice way and make the HIC relevant in fights around citadels and gates once scram also prevent docking! "surrender your ego, be free". innuendo. solo? There is a new hope...
TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 1161	Posted - 2015.11.05 11:08:47 - [17] - Quote still no rr on hics? why? until that happens I'll keep on training large gun spec 5s before I train hic 5, so useless. and you could make that block of stats a bit more readable
ChromeStriker Out of Focus Odin's Call 961	Posted - 2015.11.05 11:10:24 - [18] - Quote Saisin wrote: Very interesting.. I hope the regular focused script will still disrupt up to 30km, and that the scram version will have a range of at least 12 or 13km. This way, the next step would be to make disruption field generator scram script also prevent warping from within a bubble, and this can take care of the nullification of interceptors in a very nice way and make the HIC relevant in fights around citadels and gates once scram also prevent docking! there is nly one script.... And scramming bubble would be BAD! No Worries
xttz GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 730	Posted - 2015.11.05 11:11:31 - [19] - Quote TrouserDeagle wrote: still no rr on hics? why? until that happens I'll keep on training large gun spec 5s before I train hic 5, so useless. and you could make that block of stats a bit more readable Or you could train Basic Reading Comprehension I CCP Larrikin wrote: Link to stats in readable format
Destoya Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion 557	Posted - 2015.11.05 11:12:31 - [20] - Quote Are you concerned that the reduced gap between T1 and T2 will severely diminish the value of Gravitron Physics V which is only used for T2 WDFG and T2 Capital Tractors? Will the drop rate of meta WDFGs or the build cost of T1 WDFG's be modified to ensure that the market isn't flooded by mission loot?

ChromeStriker Out of Focus Odin's Call 961	Posted - 2015.11.05 11:18:54 - [21] - Quote Destoya wrote: Are you concerned that the reduced gap between T1 and T2 will severely diminish the value of Gravitron Physics V which is only used for T2 WDFG and T2 Capital Tractors? Will the drop rate of meta WDFGs or the build cost of T1 WDFG's be modified to ensure that the market isn't flooded by mission loot? Very much agreed.... its a pretty long train for a minimal increase in effect, especially if the faction modules outclass the T2 without the train... theres going o be a pretty tricky balnce between these... I doubt its info that can be given but comparing these to prices of points now...? No Worries
Saisin Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp Chao3 Alliance 300	Posted - 2015.11.05 11:24:47 - [22] - Quote ChromeStriker wrote: Saisin wrote: Very interesting.. I hope the regular focused script will still disrupt up to 30km, and that the scram version will have a range of at least 12 or 13km. This way, the next step would be to make disruption field generator scram script also prevent warping from within a bubble, and this can take care of the nullification of interceptors in a very nice way and make the HIC relevant in fights around citadels and gates once scram also prevent docking! there is nly one script.... And scramming bubble would be BAD! I am not talking about scramming bubble. A focused script cause the field generator to act like a targeted warp disruptor, with a better range. so I am suggesting that adding a focused scram script would work like a targeted warp scrambler, with a lower range than the current focused script. "surrender your ego, be free". innuendo. solo? There is a new hope...
Airi Cho Dark-Rising Decayed Orbit 110	Posted - 2015.11.05 11:27:57 - [23] - Quote ChromeStriker wrote: Destoya wrote: Are you concerned that the reduced gap between T1 and T2 will severely diminish the value of Gravitron Physics V which is only used for T2 WDFG and T2 Capital Tractors? Will the drop rate of meta WDFGs or the build cost of T1 WDFG's be modified to ensure that the market isn't flooded by mission loot? Very much agreed.... its a pretty long train for a minimal increase in effect, especially if the faction modules outclass the T2 without the train... theres going o be a pretty tricky balnce between these... I doubt its info that can be given but comparing these to prices of points now...? faction modules outperform T2 in many cases without the additional training. the benefit of T2 over faction is usually price and things like T2 Ammo.
Megarom Fistful of Finns Paisti Syndicate 15	Posted - 2015.11.05 11:28:54 - [24] - Quote How about more script variance 1) Classic infinity-point 2) Scrambling script so that scrambling range can be balanced separately 3) point strength in the scale of the upcoming capital point and better range or ship speed to compensate.
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 32701	Posted - 2015.11.05 11:33:48 - [25] - Quote Megarom wrote: How about more script variance 1) Classic infinity-point 2) Scrambling script so that scrambling range can be balanced separately 3) point strength in the scale of the upcoming capital point and better range or ship speed to compensate. you want double infinity scramble strength? oh by script. meh. warfare link bonuses would be better Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 1161	Posted - 2015.11.05 11:35:08 - [26] - Quote as well as allowing rr, I'd like to see much more understandable mobility penalties, like just not being able to use prop mods while you're doing hic stuff. I can't be dealing with all this +x% agility -y% mass or whatever.
Shilalasar Dead Sky Inc. 175	Posted - 2015.11.05 11:36:12 - [27] - Quote Airi Cho wrote: ChromeStriker wrote: Destoya wrote: Are you concerned that the reduced gap between T1 and T2 will severely diminish the value of Gravitron Physics V which is only used for T2 WDFG and T2 Capital Tractors? Will the drop rate of meta WDFGs or the build cost of T1 WDFG's be modified to ensure that the market isn't flooded by mission loot? Very much agreed.... its a pretty long train for a minimal increase in effect, especially if the faction modules outclass the T2 without the train... theres going o be a pretty tricky balnce between these... I doubt its info that can be given but comparing these to prices of points now...? faction modules outperform T2 in many cases without the additional training. the benefit of T2 over faction is usually price and things like T2 Ammo. But not many T2 modules require a skill to lvl 5 to use them. Especially if the skill doesn-¦t actually incresase the performance at all. T2 guns and links are the only other T2s that have a lvl 5 prereq that come to mind. And yeah, Concordshop...
xttz GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 730	Posted - 2015.11.05 11:42:29 - [28] - Quote Destoya wrote: Are you concerned that the reduced gap between T1 and T2 will severely diminish the value of Gravitron Physics V which is only used for T2 WDFG and T2 Capital Tractors? Will the drop rate of meta WDFGs or the build cost of T1 WDFG's be modified to ensure that the market isn't flooded by mission loot? I don't really understand why Graviton Physics is a requirement for these to start with, it's a science/manufacturing skill. It's like requiring Caldari Starship Engineering to fly t2 Caldari hulls. It would make more sense if WDFGs had their own skill under Electronic Systems with standard pre-reqs (level 1 for T1, level 4 for T2), plus some form of bonus for each level trained (-10% cap use or something).
Anthar Thebess 1369	Posted - 2015.11.05 11:48:39 - [29] - Quote Faction versions will be available in LP stores or by drops? If this is only by LP store , sansha lp store will be in bad position when you can get the same item cheaper for incursion LP. Can you modify Sansha /Concord version to be different in terms of fitting. One requiring less power grid but more CPU , and the opposite on the another. More important choices. Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
000708070 white Kernite Kollectors 0	Posted - 2015.11.05 11:48:48 - [30] - Quote 31.5km scrambler lol , i think i can see lots of 0.0 solo pilots tears and noone care nano ship solo dying .

Drechlas Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance 15	Posted - 2015.11.05 11:49:16 - [31] - Quote More readable format https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1I9gNYh03OKNIr3tMNteEH-051htPaUbsLmYqpKwULDY/edit?usp=sharing
ChromeStriker Out of Focus Odin's Call 961	Posted - 2015.11.05 11:51:39 - [32] - Quote 000708070 white wrote: 31.5km scrambler lol , i think i can see lots of 0.0 solo pilots tears and noone care nano ship solo dying . ... 36ish with skills No Worries
TrouserDeagle Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel 1161	Posted - 2015.11.05 12:00:21 - [33] - Quote ChromeStriker wrote: 000708070 white wrote: 31.5km scrambler lol , i think i can see lots of 0.0 solo pilots tears and noone care nano ship solo dying . ... 36ish with skills time to biomass I guess, more free kills for campers and blobbers ;_;
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2242	Posted - 2015.11.05 12:07:37 - [34] - Quote xttz wrote: Destoya wrote: Are you concerned that the reduced gap between T1 and T2 will severely diminish the value of Gravitron Physics V which is only used for T2 WDFG and T2 Capital Tractors? Will the drop rate of meta WDFGs or the build cost of T1 WDFG's be modified to ensure that the market isn't flooded by mission loot? I don't really understand why Graviton Physics is a requirement for these to start with, it's a science/manufacturing skill. It's like requiring Caldari Starship Engineering to fly t2 Caldari hulls. It would make more sense if WDFGs had their own skill under Electronic Systems with standard pre-reqs (level 1 for T1, level 4 for T2), plus some form of bonus for each level trained (reduced thrust/velocity penalties or something). I agree with this -- make a new skill for warp disruption field operation, and grant it to those at their current graviton physics level, so long as they have heavy interdictors to at least 1. Reduce bubble/infinite point size, and give the skill a bonus to size to effectively "cancel" the change. Full disclosure: I have Graviton Physics 5. :V This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1899	Posted - 2015.11.05 12:08:02 - [35] - Quote As someone with HIC V and Graviton Physics V, this makes me quite happy. HIC's are already great ships. Don't make them any easier to get into or they will boot out the sun. A truly awesome and underrated ship class just got better. There is no reason to add new skills. PS - WTB four faction WDFG's ASAP! Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here? I'm stubborn.
Airi Cho Dark-Rising Decayed Orbit 111	Posted - 2015.11.05 12:09:32 - [36] - Quote wasnt it graviton waves or so that disrupt the warp field? so the science skill kind of make sense.
Pertuabo Enkidgan Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 136	Posted - 2015.11.05 12:10:17 - [37] - Quote Ehh, I'm not feeling the scramble bonus. Large ships already have trouble enough going through nullsec(they are already a pretty rare sight to begin with) let alone when there is a chuckling interdictor stalking them and having various incredulous sniping ships shooting them from a safe distance. And its not only large ships either, you would eliminate any ship that do not have any bonuses towards afterburners. I can see interdictors being far more popular now, for the wrong reasons. I -could- see maybe a speed reduction, like a global bubble web of some sort. Maybe. But not a scramble. Nope.
Sentient Blade Crisis Atmosphere Coalition of the Unfortunate 1554	Posted - 2015.11.05 12:19:02 - [38] - Quote I'm not entirely sure how I feel about the long range scrambling effect - I think that it somewhat infringes on the role of the Lachesis / Arazu but being able to operate with twice the tank and an awful lot more offensive DPS. The armor tanked varieties, I suspect, are going to become prevalent on camps, thanks to their ability to fit their own rack of Sebos in the mids. You end up with one ship able to act as fast tackle and decent dps while still having a substantial tank.
Lamhoofd Hashur Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 27	Posted - 2015.11.05 12:24:35 - [39] - Quote Sentient Blade wrote: I'm not entirely sure how I feel about the long range scrambling effect - I think that it somewhat infringes on the role of the Lachesis / Arazu but being able to operate with twice the tank and an awful lot more offensive DPS. The armor tanked varieties, I suspect, are going to become prevalent on camps, thanks to their ability to fit their own rack of Sebos in the mids. You end up with one ship able to act as fast tackle and decent dps while still having a substantial tank. There is more in this game then null sec and w-space. Arazu / Lach can still be used pefectly in low sec.
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1899	Posted - 2015.11.05 12:29:44 - [40] - Quote Sentient Blade wrote: I'm not entirely sure how I feel about the long range scrambling effect - I think that it somewhat infringes on the role of the Lachesis / Arazu but being able to operate with twice the tank and an awful lot more offensive DPS. The armor tanked varieties, I suspect, are going to become prevalent on camps, thanks to their ability to fit their own rack of Sebos in the mids. You end up with one ship able to act as fast tackle and decent dps while still having a substantial tank. The Lachesis is a hell of a lot more nimble than any of the HIC's. Taking a HIC along on a roam is pretty painful. The Lachesis also has that awesome point range, even before heat, pimping, and links. And the Lachesis doesn't have to stop doing its job to receive remote repairs. I've already been using a Broadsword and Onyx a lot. I often find it essential to cycle my infinite points to keep a target locked down and my ships alive. In short, HIC's just got a lot better, but the Lachesis is still an excellent ship with its own role. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here? I'm stubborn.

Ted McManfist GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 74	Posted - 2015.11.05 12:32:03 - [41] - Quote Any thoughts on making specialized scripts that will give bubbles special properties? TrouserDeagle wrote: time to biomass I guess, more free kills for campers and blobbers ;_; I'm sure they will make another broken ship so you can pretend you are good while remaining uncatchable via game mechanics.
CyberRaver GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33	Posted - 2015.11.05 12:37:28 - [42] - Quote Ted McManfist wrote: Any thoughts on making specialized scripts that will give bubbles special properties? TrouserDeagle wrote: time to biomass I guess, more free kills for campers and blobbers ;_; I'm sure they will make another broken ship so you can pretend you are good while remaining uncatchable via game mechanics. So much this I hope they keep the full range of the point and it causes rivers of tears
Aquila Sagitta Blue-Fire Great Blue Balls of Fire 667	Posted - 2015.11.05 12:42:06 - [43] - Quote Phobos is going to be solo gate camping machine Blue-Fire Best Fire
Joshua Foiritain Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition 1485	Posted - 2015.11.05 13:00:51 - [44] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Q&A Q: Where will we get the new meta and faction modules?! A: Meta modules will drop from NPCs like current meta modules. The Faction modules will drop & be in LP stores like current Sansha and CONCORD modules. Sansha currently doesnt have modules in their LP stores, will this be the only item in there or will you be adding all other faction modules to their LP stores in the near future as well? [https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=232744&p=4](Coreli Corporation) is recruiting.
Tyr Dolorem Snuff Box Snuffed Out 167	Posted - 2015.11.05 13:04:54 - [45] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators now Scramble, disabling MJDs and MWDs I think this may prove too powerful.
Anthar Thebess 1370	Posted - 2015.11.05 13:18:45 - [46] - Quote Joshua Foiritain wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Q&A Q: Where will we get the new meta and faction modules?! A: Meta modules will drop from NPCs like current meta modules. The Faction modules will drop & be in LP stores like current Sansha and CONCORD modules. Sansha currently doesnt have modules in their LP stores, will this be the only item in there or will you be adding all other faction modules to their LP stores in the near future as well? I hope not , without big changes in drop rate - they will be like next Nightmare BPC or Hull. Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Suitonia Furnace Thermodynamics 662	Posted - 2015.11.05 13:22:17 - [47] - Quote A separate script that has reduced range (Maybe 40% of normal) would probably make this a bit more balanced. 37.5km Scrams on T2 HIC is incredibly powerful, and actually stronger than best faction linked heating Lachesis, obviously HICs can't get reps like a Lach can but they still have huge buffers and they will be incredibly problematic for small gangs, especially those without links. Contributer to Eve is Easy: https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1237	Posted - 2015.11.05 13:25:15 - [48] - Quote perhaps you could change the skill requirement so that the T2 version requires higher skills as should be across all mods/ships, so maybe reduce propulsion jamming too lv3 on the rest and leave it at lv5 on the T2 version. there isn't enough difference in stats i feel, also really hate the -90% velocity thing just like on serpentis ships its well OP, perhaps consider ditching mass modifier and thrust bonus, surely velocity modifier could do the job instead of needing 3 stats too confuse things. on the scripted mod is this usable in high sec? its not at all clear and could use this clarification in the module description and if it is then consider removing the sig radius and rr restriction in scripted mode please and the range increase is too much its basically a double range scram or like a recon in that mode. T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely. ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Winter Archipelago Autumn Industrial Enterprises 472	Posted - 2015.11.05 13:26:39 - [49] - Quote Shilalasar wrote: But not many T2 modules require a skill to lvl 5 to use them. Especially if the skill doesn-¦t actually incresase the performance at all. T2 guns and links are the only other T2s that have a lvl 5 prereq that come to mind. There are many. Just to name a few... 400mm T2 steel plate and EANM II's all require Hull Upgrades V. Heavy Neuts and NOS II's require Cap Emission V. Reactor Control Unit II requires Energy Grid Upgrades V. Large T2 smartbombs require Energy Pulse Weapons V. T2 drones require their size of Drone Operation to V. T2 scanning arrays and T2 hacking mods require their respective scanning skill to V. Having a level V skill to use a T2 mod is pretty normal. Planning a trip to Thera? Check out http://eve-scout.com/ for a list of the current connections. Once you've made your choice, join the *EvE-Scout* channel and request a scout to make sure your connection is clear!
Beidorion eldwardan Corporation Danmark Tactical Narcotics Team 41	Posted - 2015.11.05 13:26:52 - [50] - Quote i love the scram part. please let us keep the range as well

afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2370	Posted - 2015.11.05 13:27:31 - [51] - Quote Please consider making them block ALL ships from jumping gates AND disallowing remote sebos at the same time. Scram effect though, that's pretty sick.
My Little Friend Amok. Goonswarm Federation 3	Posted - 2015.11.05 13:30:42 - [52] - Quote How about a bubble that disables interdiction nullification.
Vimsy Vortis Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation 3583	Posted - 2015.11.05 13:30:49 - [53] - Quote The scram effect will make them much more useful and is super appropriate for their role. I like it a lot.
aurowen Xi Nostrum Inc. 0	Posted - 2015.11.05 13:45:06 - [54] - Quote Warp Disruption Field Generator II [Meta Level 0; Powergrid 84; CPU 55; Activation 150; Mass Modifier -80%; Thrust Bonus -80% (-5); Velocity Bonus -90% (-5); Signature Radius Bonus 50%; Bubble Range 20km] Cmon guys, is there no one (not fozzie cause we all know he as no clue) who reads that stuff before you release it? it should be the following Warp Disruption Field Generator II [Meta Level 0; Powergrid 84; CPU 55; Activation 150; Mass Modifier -80%; Thrust Bonus -80% ; Velocity Bonus -90%; Signature Radius Bonus 50%; Bubble Range 20km (+0.8km) So you basicaly added random (-5's) on stats you didnt touch.. and bubble range which is basicaly the only stat you change.. you dont add something? I know that mistakes happen.. but cmon that just gives me the feeling that you guys dont even know what you talk about..
W0lf Crendraven Welfcorp 393	Posted - 2015.11.05 13:47:52 - [55] - Quote This is absurdly broken.
Anthar Thebess 1370	Posted - 2015.11.05 14:02:56 - [56] - Quote My Little Friend wrote: How about a bubble that disables interdiction nullification. LOL What will be the point of having nullified ship then? Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Always Shi t Posting 4	Posted - 2015.11.05 14:06:11 - [57] - Quote W0lf Crendraven wrote: This is absurdly broken. Then use the new super-long-range neuts to shut it down.
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1899	Posted - 2015.11.05 14:11:06 - [58] - Quote W0lf Crendraven wrote: This is absurdly broken. You understand that this was necessary once you factor in 5000mn MWD's, right? PS - and potentially even Capital MJD's... Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here? I'm stubborn.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2372	Posted - 2015.11.05 14:16:31 - [59] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: W0lf Crendraven wrote: This is absurdly broken. You understand that this was necessary once you factor in 5000mn MWD's, right? PS - and potentially even Capital MJD's... Nah, caps are losing ewar immunity. I could scram and shut down a caps MWD/MJD in a condoer, were I inclined.
Fredric Wolf Black Sheep Down Tactical Narcotics Team 113	Posted - 2015.11.05 14:18:06 - [60] - Quote I am still upset with the tiericide project because all meta modules are better then base T1 mods. I do know know why these were made without trade offs to keep the base mod as a viable item. Why would I ever use a T1 when the compact is better in every single way?

Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1237	Posted - 2015.11.05 14:23:22 - [61] - Quote Fredric Wolf wrote: I am still upset with the tiericide project because all meta modules are better then base T1 mods. I do know know why these were made without trade offs to keep the base mod as a viable item. Why would I ever use a T1 when the compact is better in every single way? im more annoyed that they make T2 better in every way instead of focusing them so they don't obsolete all the rest. T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely. ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Miss Teri Open University of Celestial Hardship 66	Posted - 2015.11.05 14:24:46 - [62] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Hi M8s! Changes Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators now Scramble, disabling MJDs and MWDs Wouldn't a new Focused Warp Scrambling Script be better? (less range, disables MJDs and MWDs)
Maria Jita Perkone Caldari State 0	Posted - 2015.11.05 14:28:42 - [63] - Quote Sansha and CONCORD got same stats. We know from lore that CONCORD use Jove warp scramble technology to disable pods. Sansha = Jove confirmed! Also, HL3 in 3..2..
Amakish Snipes Incorporated UK Mercenary Coalition 16	Posted - 2015.11.05 14:29:10 - [64] - Quote in general is there a fix comingto prices on navy stuff? right now all faction mods are pretty much dropped pirate module becuase the price of navy (same stats) are just too damn high... is there a rewamp coming to all the LP stores to make it more competitive with drops?
Airi Cho Dark-Rising Decayed Orbit 113	Posted - 2015.11.05 14:29:38 - [65] - Quote Miss Teri wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Hi M8s! Changes Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators now Scramble, disabling MJDs and MWDs Wouldn't a new Focused Warp Scrambling Script be better? (less range, disables MJDs and MWDs) that seems better than having it by default.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2243	Posted - 2015.11.05 14:38:07 - [66] - Quote Fredric Wolf wrote: I am still upset with the tiericide project because all meta modules are better then base T1 mods. I do know know why these were made without trade offs to keep the base mod as a viable item. Why would I ever use a T1 when the compact is better in every single way? Cost. T1 modules are also necessary for building the T2 variants. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Switch Savage The Tuskers The Tuskers Co. 208	Posted - 2015.11.05 14:43:45 - [67] - Quote Am I thinking correctly that you can now run a solo Rail Phobos with good speed, tank, damage, application, range and a 36km scram. I better get training...
Kendarr Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation 55	Posted - 2015.11.05 14:46:00 - [68] - Quote Look at all the kiting players crying! The only thing you "elite pvp" masturbators hate more than 'blobs' are gatecamps. 31KM Scram range, YES PLEASE. Zebra-Corp
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2372	Posted - 2015.11.05 14:46:07 - [69] - Quote Switch Savage wrote: Am I thinking correctly that you can now run a solo Rail Phobos with good speed, tank, damage, application, range and a 36km scram. I better get training... Oh the FW tears that will come.
Galdur Trudaihnel Bikini Bottom Ultras 27	Posted - 2015.11.05 14:49:57 - [70] - Quote Did CCP just completely destroy solo and small gang pvp as we know it ... yes, yes they did. I mean come on are you kidding me,? this has to be a joke right ?

Switch Savage The Tuskers The Tuskers Co. 208	Posted - 2015.11.05 14:57:58 - [71] - Quote Galdur Trudaihnel wrote: Did CCP just completely destroy solo and small gang pvp as we know it ... yes, yes they did. I mean come on are you kidding me,? this has to be a joke right ? Over reaction to the max but still its a concern.
Khador Vess Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 253	Posted - 2015.11.05 15:11:29 - [72] - Quote Galdur Trudaihnel wrote: Did CCP just completely destroy solo and small gang pvp as we know it ... yes, yes they did. I mean come on are you kidding me,? this has to be a joke right ? Thats a bit of an over reaction isnt it mate? How many eve players does it take to change a lightbulb? Change.. Noooooooooooooooooo
DeadDuck The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance 176	Posted - 2015.11.05 15:13:00 - [73] - Quote TBH seems a bit overpowered...
Khador Vess Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 253	Posted - 2015.11.05 15:18:09 - [74] - Quote The arazu has been able to do this since forever. A true sansha scram on an arazu/lachesis can get to 33 with links, i dont think that 3km really makes that much of a differnce
Santa Spirit Christmas Spirit and Goodwill Toward Man 505	Posted - 2015.11.05 15:24:31 - [75] - Quote Airi Cho wrote: wasnt it graviton waves or so that disrupt the warp field? so the science skill kind of make sense. as far as I've been told, the tractor beam works by manipulating graviton fields around an object within a set distance, the understanding of those fields and how they interact with objects in space are what allows the use of the (more complicated) tech II version and it's greater range of operation. The same is also true as the manipulation of, or distortion of normal graviton/gravity fields are what disrupts the warp field generator of the vessel, the greater the operator's understanding of those fields, the greater range they are able to affect the fields at... of course, this is what folks who have been here longer than I have been tell me and to be honest, it does make sense. o/ Santa On Occasion, I must apologize for the things I say because they sometimes make me sound as though I have a clue. Please feel free to join in on the fun Dec 14th. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6081085 2015!!!!!
Galdur Trudaihnel Bikini Bottom Ultras 27	Posted - 2015.11.05 15:29:35 - [76] - Quote Not really how can a solo pvper / small gang roam null with the 'current meta' taking those changes into account. All the blob needs to do is stick one of these either side of a gate and your screwed . There is no way you are pulling off gate and fighting in a shield kite MWD setup that is commonly used today and there is also no way you can crash the gate either. There are ways round it but the meta will have to adjust (im thinking AB's/ more brawling setups), but it will definitely destroy a lot of small gang setups as we know them. As for solo... with no kiting or MJD you are limited to using AB's for mobility around gates.
Khador Vess Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 253	Posted - 2015.11.05 15:33:04 - [77] - Quote Galdur Trudaihnel wrote: Not really how can a solo pvper / small gang roam null with the 'current meta' taking those changes into account. All the blob needs to do is stick one of these either side of a gate and your screwed . There is no way you are pulling off gate and fighting in a shield kite MWD setup that is commonly used today and there is also no way you can crash the gate either. There are ways round it but the meta will have to adjust (im thinking AB's/ more brawling setups), but it will definitely destroy a lot of small gang setups as we know them. As for solo... with no kiting or MJD you are limited to using AB's for mobility around gates. They can do the exact same thing with an arazu. Without links its still a 27km scram. Hics also have speed penalties when running the generators so they cant chase after you if you are dual prop.
TehEbil1 The Tuskers The Tuskers Co. 3	Posted - 2015.11.05 15:37:42 - [78] - Quote Khador Vess wrote: Galdur Trudaihnel wrote: Not really how can a solo pvper / small gang roam null with the 'current meta' taking those changes into account. All the blob needs to do is stick one of these either side of a gate and your screwed . There is no way you are pulling off gate and fighting in a shield kite MWD setup that is commonly used today and there is also no way you can crash the gate either. There are ways round it but the meta will have to adjust (im thinking AB's/ more brawling setups), but it will definitely destroy a lot of small gang setups as we know them. As for solo... with no kiting or MJD you are limited to using AB's for mobility around gates. They can do the exact same thing with an arazu. Without links its still a 27km scram. Hics also have speed penalties when running the generators so they cant chase after you if you are dual prop. Except it doesn't have speed penalties when you have the focused script in, which allows you to scram things
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1238	Posted - 2015.11.05 15:38:03 - [79] - Quote and on-one thinks arazu/lachesis point range bonuses are OP? ... really?? T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely. ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
TehEbil1 The Tuskers The Tuskers Co. 3	Posted - 2015.11.05 15:39:41 - [80] - Quote Harvey James wrote: and on-one thinks arazu/lachesis point range bonuses are OP? ... really?? Arazu/Lachesis dont achieve multi-hundred thousand ehp's

Aiyshimin Fistful of Finns Paisti Syndicate 564	Posted - 2015.11.05 15:46:51 - [81] - Quote Really nice buff to HICs and definitely a meta-shaker!
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1899	Posted - 2015.11.05 15:49:32 - [82] - Quote Galdur Trudaihnel wrote: Did CCP just completely destroy solo and small gang pvp as we know it ... yes, yes they did. I mean come on are you kidding me,? this has to be a joke right ? That's funny, I have been flying a brawling Broadsword in small gangs for quite a while now. CCP just made it better. Yay! Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here? I'm stubborn.
Soldarius Naliao Inc. Test Alliance Please Ignore 1416	Posted - 2015.11.05 15:54:20 - [83] - Quote Fredric Wolf wrote: I am still upset with the tiericide project because all meta modules are better then base T1 mods. I do know know why these were made without trade offs to keep the base mod as a viable item. Why would I ever use a T1 when the compact is better in every single way? Meta 0 are for noobs and building T2. CONCORD base range = 21km. 21 x 1.5 x 1.25 = 39.375km scram range. Sanshas and CONCORD LP stores about to get destroyed. http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

CCP Larrikin C C P C C P Alliance 297	Posted - 2015.11.05 15:57:21 - [84] - Quote Suitonia wrote: A separate script that has reduced range (Maybe 40% of normal) would probably make this a bit more balanced. 37.5km Scrams on T2 HIC is incredibly powerful, and actually stronger than best faction linked heating Lachesis, obviously HICs can't get reps like a Lach can but they still have huge buffers and they will be incredibly problematic for small gangs, especially those without links. Yeah we've got this in our back pocket. We want to see how this works out, and if its too OP we'll introduce a new scrambling script with a shorter range. Game Designer \| Team Five-0 \| https://twitter.com/CCP_Larrikin

Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1239	Posted - 2015.11.05 15:57:26 - [85] - Quote TehEbil1 wrote: Harvey James wrote: and on-one thinks arazu/lachesis point range bonuses are OP? ... really?? Arazu/Lachesis dont achieve multi-hundred thousand ehp's not really the point, but you can at least actually rep them and have multiple points T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely. ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Krell Kroenen The Devil's Shadow 261	Posted - 2015.11.05 15:57:52 - [86] - Quote Beidorion eldwardan wrote: i love the scram part. please let us keep the range as well For the purpose of feedback to CCP, I to would like to state that I like the long range scram script concept being purposed. So tally my opinion as pro long range scram.
Yin Zheng Sequent Industry Out of Sight. 5	Posted - 2015.11.05 15:59:10 - [87] - Quote Good job murdering solo pvp and forcing small gangs to bring rooks.
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1901	Posted - 2015.11.05 15:59:22 - [88] - Quote TehEbil1 wrote: Harvey James wrote: and on-one thinks arazu/lachesis point range bonuses are OP? ... really?? Arazu/Lachesis dont achieve multi-hundred thousand ehp's Multi-hundred thousand EHP's? On a HIC? What are you smoking? You cannot do that unless you have an immobile brick and even then it is hardly "multi-hundred." A Devoter, without bonuses, maxes out under 200k EHP with T2 fit (and has no weapons at all). A Phobos is around 170k (again with no weapons). And, no, Harvey James, Arazu/Lachesis point ranges are not OP. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here? I'm stubborn.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2372	Posted - 2015.11.05 16:03:12 - [89] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Suitonia wrote: A separate script that has reduced range (Maybe 40% of normal) would probably make this a bit more balanced. 37.5km Scrams on T2 HIC is incredibly powerful, and actually stronger than best faction linked heating Lachesis, obviously HICs can't get reps like a Lach can but they still have huge buffers and they will be incredibly problematic for small gangs, especially those without links. Yeah we've got this in our back pocket. We want to see how this works out, and if its too OP we'll introduce a new scrambling script with a shorter range. Can you mess with cycle times in the meta variations so that overheating and general use has a little more depth?
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1239	Posted - 2015.11.05 16:07:04 - [90] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Suitonia wrote: A separate script that has reduced range (Maybe 40% of normal) would probably make this a bit more balanced. 37.5km Scrams on T2 HIC is incredibly powerful, and actually stronger than best faction linked heating Lachesis, obviously HICs can't get reps like a Lach can but they still have huge buffers and they will be incredibly problematic for small gangs, especially those without links. Yeah we've got this in our back pocket. We want to see how this works out, and if its too OP we'll introduce a new scrambling script with a shorter range. but were telling you its OP, can you really not see that or listen too us. T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely. ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Yin Zheng Sequent Industry Out of Sight. 6	Posted - 2015.11.05 16:13:26 - [91] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Yeah we've got this in our back pocket. We want to see how this works out, and if its too OP we'll introduce a new scrambling script with a shorter range. Introduce the scrambling script with a really short range, buff it if it sucks too much. It would be much more logical than adding something outright broken and then trying to fix it.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2245	Posted - 2015.11.05 16:14:25 - [92] - Quote Harvey James wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Suitonia wrote: A separate script that has reduced range (Maybe 40% of normal) would probably make this a bit more balanced. 37.5km Scrams on T2 HIC is incredibly powerful, and actually stronger than best faction linked heating Lachesis, obviously HICs can't get reps like a Lach can but they still have huge buffers and they will be incredibly problematic for small gangs, especially those without links. Yeah we've got this in our back pocket. We want to see how this works out, and if its too OP we'll introduce a new scrambling script with a shorter range. but were telling you its OP, can you really not see that or listen too us. Data observed over time beats the kneejerk reactions of a handful of eveo forums posters any day. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1239	Posted - 2015.11.05 16:14:48 - [93] - Quote Yin Zheng wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Yeah we've got this in our back pocket. We want to see how this works out, and if its too OP we'll introduce a new scrambling script with a shorter range. Introduce the scrambling script with a really short range, buff it if it sucks too much. It would be much more logical than adding something outright broken and then trying to fix it. you would think so, it seems too be the CCP way though. usually too much buff and not enough nerf T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely. ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
big miker Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops 370	Posted - 2015.11.05 16:15:11 - [94] - Quote Wow, just wow Giving a 200k EHP boat a 30+ ( 37.5 ) km scrambler? Like Suitonia said, make it a script with LESS range. If you want long range scramblers fly a Lachesis or Arazu or anything else with a scrambler range bonus, which are more balanced since they can't get very high EHP levels. Latest video: Ferocious 6.0 Nano battleships / maruaders
Airi Cho Dark-Rising Decayed Orbit 113	Posted - 2015.11.05 16:15:15 - [95] - Quote TehEbil1 wrote: Khador Vess wrote: Galdur Trudaihnel wrote: Not really how can a solo pvper / small gang roam null with the 'current meta' taking those changes into account. All the blob needs to do is stick one of these either side of a gate and your screwed . There is no way you are pulling off gate and fighting in a shield kite MWD setup that is commonly used today and there is also no way you can crash the gate either. There are ways round it but the meta will have to adjust (im thinking AB's/ more brawling setups), but it will definitely destroy a lot of small gang setups as we know them. As for solo... with no kiting or MJD you are limited to using AB's for mobility around gates. They can do the exact same thing with an arazu. Without links its still a 27km scram. Hics also have speed penalties when running the generators so they cant chase after you if you are dual prop. Except it doesn't have speed penalties when you have the focused script in, which allows you to scram things the arazu will probably die faster than the average hic
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1239	Posted - 2015.11.05 16:15:33 - [96] - Quote Querns wrote: Harvey James wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Suitonia wrote: A separate script that has reduced range (Maybe 40% of normal) would probably make this a bit more balanced. 37.5km Scrams on T2 HIC is incredibly powerful, and actually stronger than best faction linked heating Lachesis, obviously HICs can't get reps like a Lach can but they still have huge buffers and they will be incredibly problematic for small gangs, especially those without links. Yeah we've got this in our back pocket. We want to see how this works out, and if its too OP we'll introduce a new scrambling script with a shorter range. but were telling you its OP, can you really not see that or listen too us. Data observed over time beats the kneejerk reactions of a handful of eveo forums posters any day. yeah, but we also told them them the T3 dessies would be OP on release.. T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely. ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
5pitf1re Agony Unleashed Agony Empire 81	Posted - 2015.11.05 16:16:16 - [97] - Quote Galdur Trudaihnel wrote: Not really how can a solo pvper / small gang roam null with the 'current meta' taking those changes into account. All the blob needs to do is stick one of these either side of a gate and your screwed . There is no way you are pulling off gate and fighting in a shield kite MWD setup that is commonly used today and there is also no way you can crash the gate either. There are ways round it but the meta will have to adjust (im thinking AB's/ more brawling setups), but it will definitely destroy a lot of small gang setups as we know them. As for solo... with no kiting or MJD you are limited to using AB's for mobility around gates. I can already ruin your day in a linked resebo'd Vigilant and I won't care about your ABs at all, I'll scram you out to 16.7km and 90% dual web you at 17.7km. You won't go anywhere.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2372	Posted - 2015.11.05 16:18:39 - [98] - Quote big miker wrote: Wow, just wow Giving a 200k EHP boat a 30+ ( 37.5 ) km scrambler? Like Suitonia said, make it a script with LESS range. If you want long range scramblers fly a Lachesis or Arazu or anything else with a scrambler range bonus, which are more balanced since they can't get very high EHP levels. Proteus isn't a kick in the tail off this either. They're not exactly high on peoples broken list (for that reason, at least). And it can do it whilst bringing like...850 DPS with it.
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1239	Posted - 2015.11.05 16:18:56 - [99] - Quote 5pitf1re wrote: Galdur Trudaihnel wrote: Not really how can a solo pvper / small gang roam null with the 'current meta' taking those changes into account. All the blob needs to do is stick one of these either side of a gate and your screwed . There is no way you are pulling off gate and fighting in a shield kite MWD setup that is commonly used today and there is also no way you can crash the gate either. There are ways round it but the meta will have to adjust (im thinking AB's/ more brawling setups), but it will definitely destroy a lot of small gang setups as we know them. As for solo... with no kiting or MJD you are limited to using AB's for mobility around gates. I can already ruin your day in a linked resebo'd Vigilant and I won't care about your ABs at all, I'll scram you out to 16.7km and 90% dual web you at 17.7km. You won't go anywhere. i still can't believe they allowed 90% webs on serpentis T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely. ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Odris Meza The Reborn The Gorgon Empire 10	Posted - 2015.11.05 16:24:50 - [100] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: TehEbil1 wrote: Harvey James wrote: and on-one thinks arazu/lachesis point range bonuses are OP? ... really?? Arazu/Lachesis dont achieve multi-hundred thousand ehp's Multi-hundred thousand EHP's? On a HIC? What are you smoking? You cannot do that unless you have an immobile brick and even then it is hardly "multi-hundred." A Devoter, without bonuses, maxes out under 200k EHP with T2 fit (and has no weapons at all). A Phobos is around 170k (again with no weapons). And, no, Harvey James, Arazu/Lachesis point ranges are not OP. http://clip2net.com/s/3pTzRz9 180k EHP even w/o slave or bonuses is enough to tank about 5 ppl at HACs or 3-4 BSH who cant get to close range btw to do their dps for min or two. Are you dont see it's really imba if we look from solo/small scale pvp and not from capital ship 1000 local balance? Why? Ok i say why: 1). 36km scram is better range than overloaded FACTION scram with links at lachestis/arazu. Which dont have so much hp and resistances for logistics. 2). The same ship can use buble active to stop even frig/destro/cruiser size ships. Ok lets say he dont get enough scan res to lock frig/destro but 100% have even with one SB to lock cruiser. 3). Ok lets look about BC/BSH: solo or small number of these will be punished almost w/o chances to escape, you can try to focus devoter/phobos with 150k EHP. OK SO WHAT? Cyno/blob will kill you. The only thing BSH(not BC) can do is heavy neut him and hoping for escape(ofc not an idiot will have capbooster at Hictor), oh wait heavy neut range is 25 faction 29.4 and scram from Hictor is 36km! So battlecruiser is useless trash who cant reach 36 km range(only t3 can do this well, even new faction BC do rly bad dps at 36km range) and cant move if dont fit oversized 100mn AB. 4). So any of low/null sec camp or homedefence got free buble + lachestis with bonuses in same ship and alot of EHP. Anytime it's can be saved with any of logistics/triage/blob coz you cant kill this **** really fast and you are scrambled near gate. 6 second cycle of generator with script, 4 if OH. I cant call of this crap as "balance". New Script with about 15 km range is good idea, 36km it's omgwtfbbq. Also it's possible to work as scram only vs Capitals if you want this to work well against them. Dont kill nonblob PvP pz. Ok np if this will be relised like this i will undock on my phantasm but not machariel/tempest or any of HAC's/BCs maybe Armageddon can hangle this, but none else.

Aiyshimin Fistful of Finns Paisti Syndicate 567	Posted - 2015.11.05 16:26:06 - [101] - Quote So many posts basically saying "omg I can't kite in my OP linked kiting autism chariot with absolute impunity and feel elite anymore if the enemies have a HIC"
Challus Mercer Sacred Temple The Gorgon Empire 20	Posted - 2015.11.05 16:26:49 - [102] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Suitonia wrote: A separate script that has reduced range (Maybe 40% of normal) would probably make this a bit more balanced. 37.5km Scrams on T2 HIC is incredibly powerful, and actually stronger than best faction linked heating Lachesis, obviously HICs can't get reps like a Lach can but they still have huge buffers and they will be incredibly problematic for small gangs, especially those without links. Yeah we've got this in our back pocket. We want to see how this works out, and if its too OP we'll introduce a new scrambling script with a shorter range. Such a huge range for a scram is a huge boost to all kinds of camping. Eve doesn't need this at all. It only shifts the meta towards oversized ABs and smaller ships like t3d's, which was already the case. Just reconsider this again please. New script with smaller range would be definitely more healthy decision.
Zazad Antollare Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation 6	Posted - 2015.11.05 16:27:14 - [103] - Quote Make the regular generator (no script) increase agility modifer and then we are good
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2372	Posted - 2015.11.05 16:29:09 - [104] - Quote Aiyshimin wrote: So many posts basically saying "omg I can't kite in my OP linked kiting autism chariot with absolute impunity and feel elite anymore if the enemies have a HIC" So much this. It's like they've never seen a proteus.
Soldarius Naliao Inc. Test Alliance Please Ignore 1416	Posted - 2015.11.05 16:38:58 - [105] - Quote The more I think about this, the more my mind is completely blown. 39km 100pt scram on a 150k EHP brick (or 112k EHP brick and 500dps passive regen rate if you use purger rigs) with 500dps is absolutely insane. I feel like the dude in the seat. Can we plz get these on sisi for a while? I really want to haze some nerds with this before it gets nerfed. https://youtu.be/80DtQD5BQ_A?t=1m50s http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Whisperen Delta vane Corp. Mordus Angels 46	Posted - 2015.11.05 16:43:26 - [106] - Quote This is a bad idea.
Swiftstrike1 Swiftstrike Incorporated 891	Posted - 2015.11.05 16:43:49 - [107] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators now Scramble, disabling MJDs and MWDs This is by far the most meaningful and best part of the changes. +1,000,000 On a side note, do (scripted) Warp Disruption Field Generators benefit from Skirmish Warfare Links that increase point range? If not, they should do. Casual Incursion runner & Faction Warfare grunt, ex-Wormholer, ex-Nullbear.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2246	Posted - 2015.11.05 16:44:47 - [108] - Quote Soldarius wrote: The more I think about this, the more my mind is completely blown. 39km 100pt scram on a 150k EHP brick (or 112k EHP brick and 500dps passive regen rate if you use purger rigs) with 500dps is absolutely insane. I feel like the dude in the seat. Can we plz get these on sisi for a while? I really want to haze some nerds with this before it gets nerfed. https://youtu.be/80DtQD5BQ_A?t=1m50s Link your fit. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Yin Zheng Sequent Industry Out of Sight. 6	Posted - 2015.11.05 16:45:43 - [109] - Quote Aiyshimin wrote: omg I can't kite in my OP linked kiting autism Solo is pretty much dead already, this is not even the last nail in its coffin - more like a **** on its grave. Small scale pilots are forced to bring OP linked kiting autism to survive against blobs. Now they will also be forced to bring a counter to this cancer. This doesn't add a single bit of depth to guerilla-style pvp, simply a hard counter that requires you to field another hard counter. Diversity of setups? Didn't want this crap anyway. Right now blobtards like cfc have to bring a handful of svipuls in addition to the actual combat fleet to force small gangs out of their krabbici haven. When this HIC revamp hits TQ, it'd be enough to bring one or two HICs with cyno. But hell, who cares about those small scale pvpers, right? They can die off for all CCP cares. Feel free to post how salty I am and I should adapt.
Challus Mercer Sacred Temple The Gorgon Empire 21	Posted - 2015.11.05 16:46:42 - [110] - Quote Aiyshimin wrote: So many posts basically saying "omg I can't kite in my OP linked kiting autism chariot with absolute impunity and feel elite anymore if the enemies have a HIC" A lot of l33t kiters already use oversized AB's, especially with links. Do you need more of this? Do you think bigger ships like BC's and BS's with MWD are too OP?

Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2247	Posted - 2015.11.05 16:50:24 - [111] - Quote Yin Zheng wrote: Aiyshimin wrote: omg I can't kite in my OP linked kiting autism Solo is pretty much dead already, this is not even the last nail in its coffin - more like a **** on its grave. Small scale pilots are forced to bring OP linked kiting autism to survive against blobs, because you are much more likely to die in a brawling setup. Now they will also be forced to bring a counter to this cancer. This doesn't add a single bit of depth to the guerilla-style pvp, simply a hard counter that requires you to field another hard counter. Diversity of setups? Didn't want this crap anyway. Right now blobtards like cfc have to bring a handful of svipuls in addition to the actual combat fleet to force small gangs out of their krabbici haven. When this HIC revamp hits TQ, it'd be enough to bring one or two HICs with cyno. But hell, who cares about those small scale pvpers, right? They can die off for all CCP cares. Feel free to post how salty I am and that I should adapt. So a handful of heavy interdictors replacing a handful of svipuls is somehow a net negative change? Also, this post would have been a lot more sympathetic if you left out the needless invectives. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Desiderya Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade 1062	Posted - 2015.11.05 16:51:05 - [112] - Quote Interesting changes. Not a fan of the implication for gatecamps. Maybe touching scanres a bit may be in order? Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2373	Posted - 2015.11.05 16:53:57 - [113] - Quote Whisperen wrote: This is a bad idea. Scram and anti-mjd long point + bubbles on a instalocking brick tanked cruiser are you nuts? This would be a valued and insightful comment, if only it wasn't wholly inaccurate...
Whisperen Delta vane Corp. Mordus Angels 46	Posted - 2015.11.05 16:56:09 - [114] - Quote Maybe you should use one then get back to us.
Skyler Hawk Boars on Parade The Tuskers Co. 57	Posted - 2015.11.05 17:00:25 - [115] - Quote afkalt wrote: [quote=Aiyshimin]So much this. It's like they've never seen a proteus. Ed: 26.6 km scram, 185k EHP (not even slaved), over 900 DPS. Yeah....but these HICs....totally different To achieve that result with a proteus, you are using a 200m ISK faction scram on a 450m hull with links and heat, and even then you fall 10 km short of the tackling capabilities that hictors will get with just a t2 WDFG and no links, at a total cost of around 250m. It's not a remotely honest comparison.
Fredric Wolf Black Sheep Down Tactical Narcotics Team 113	Posted - 2015.11.05 17:17:30 - [116] - Quote Querns wrote: Fredric Wolf wrote: I am still upset with the tiericide project because all meta modules are better then base T1 mods. I do know know why these were made without trade offs to keep the base mod as a viable item. Why would I ever use a T1 when the compact is better in every single way? Cost. T1 modules are also necessary for building the T2 variants. I would agree with cost if meta in most cases were not cheaper then T1. Also I am not in agreement that T1 is only useful for T2 production.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2247	Posted - 2015.11.05 17:19:45 - [117] - Quote Fredric Wolf wrote: Querns wrote: Fredric Wolf wrote: I am still upset with the tiericide project because all meta modules are better then base T1 mods. I do know know why these were made without trade offs to keep the base mod as a viable item. Why would I ever use a T1 when the compact is better in every single way? Cost. T1 modules are also necessary for building the T2 variants. I would agree with cost if meta in most cases were not cheaper then T1. Also I am not in agreement that T1 is only useful for T2 production. Care to give some examples of mods whose meta variants are cheaper than T1? This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
bigbillthaboss3 Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation 100	Posted - 2015.11.05 17:27:46 - [118] - Quote There might need to be some theory crafting and thought put on the issue of people using these on citadels. As they can now scramble ships I see this as an issue popping up in the future. I don't have an issue with it, just curious if the possible outcomes and scenarios have been run through regarding camping citadels.
rhiload Feron-drake Brotherhood of Purity 49	Posted - 2015.11.05 17:27:50 - [119] - Quote rip refitting to 100mn oversized AB's on all my ships now o7 p.s plz buff chameleon p.g/cpu and speed
Soldarius Naliao Inc. Test Alliance Please Ignore 1416	Posted - 2015.11.05 17:28:25 - [120] - Quote Swiftstrike1 wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators now Scramble, disabling MJDs and MWDs This is by far the most meaningful and best part of the changes. +1,000,000 On a side note, do (scripted) Warp Disruption Field Generators benefit from Skirmish Warfare Links that increase point range? If not, they should do. They do not. At least not according to EFT. http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Soldarius Naliao Inc. Test Alliance Please Ignore 1416	Posted - 2015.11.05 17:31:41 - [121] - Quote Querns wrote: Soldarius wrote: The more I think about this, the more my mind is completely blown. 39km 100pt scram on a 150k EHP brick (or 112k EHP brick and 500dps passive regen rate if you use purger rigs) with 500dps is absolutely insane. I feel like the dude in the seat. Can we plz get these on sisi for a while? I really want to haze some nerds with this before it gets nerfed. https://youtu.be/80DtQD5BQ_A?t=1m50s Link your fit. The faction warp disruption module obviously isn't in game yet. But any nerd with EFT can fit an Onyx with a shield tank, RLMLs, BCS, and shield rigs. Don't forget to apply links. http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Cristl 257	Posted - 2015.11.05 17:32:16 - [122] - Quote Querns wrote: Fredric Wolf wrote: Querns wrote: Fredric Wolf wrote: I am still upset with the tiericide project because all meta modules are better then base T1 mods. I do know know why these were made without trade offs to keep the base mod as a viable item. Why would I ever use a T1 when the compact is better in every single way? Cost. T1 modules are also necessary for building the T2 variants. I would agree with cost if meta in most cases were not cheaper then T1. Also I am not in agreement that T1 is only useful for T2 production. Care to give some examples of mods whose meta variants are cheaper than T1? There are loads actually. Small capacitor battery, for example. How much are you going to pay per example?
FearlessLittleToaster GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 65	Posted - 2015.11.05 17:43:42 - [123] - Quote As somebody who does solo PvP almost exclusively (and for the folks who don't believe me, check my killboard) I am in favor of these changes. This is for the simple reason that PvP options which allow one party to have minimal risk are horrible. When I undock I know I'm almost certainly dead, and I'm going to die outnumbered, webbed, scrammed, jammed, bubbled, and unable to so much as scratch the paint on my attackers. Such is life. If I wanted to fight a duel against an equal opponent I would play Starcraft. If I want a challenge from a game with a huge element of the unknown I will play Eve; its the occasions when I get it right and win against the odds, or take a target out and moonwalk off grid, that make it all worth it. If you think as an Eve player that you should have access to ships that are untouchable to any class but their own (read: any of the current long-point kiting setups) you need to re-evaluate what game you are playing. Your play-style received a huge buff with the introduction of the rapid light missile launcher, giving kiting cruisers a viciously effective way to kill fast tackle that was un-coutnerable by the tackle pilot. Now, with this change and missile disruptors, just a smidgen of that power is being clawed back. If "I might be forced to commit to a fight not of my choosing" makes you stop undocking then you shouldn't have been playing Eve in the first place. As for "the blob will win now", well, I would turn that question around and ask why ten guys should be able to attack a thousand well organized players with no fear of getting hit back?
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2247	Posted - 2015.11.05 17:45:36 - [124] - Quote Cristl wrote: Querns wrote: Fredric Wolf wrote: Querns wrote: Fredric Wolf wrote: I am still upset with the tiericide project because all meta modules are better then base T1 mods. I do know know why these were made without trade offs to keep the base mod as a viable item. Why would I ever use a T1 when the compact is better in every single way? Cost. T1 modules are also necessary for building the T2 variants. I would agree with cost if meta in most cases were not cheaper then T1. Also I am not in agreement that T1 is only useful for T2 production. Care to give some examples of mods whose meta variants are cheaper than T1? There are loads actually. Small capacitor battery, for example. How much are you going to pay per example? The difference in cost there is on the order of about 10,000 isk, for a module that is extremely unpopular. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Fredric Wolf Black Sheep Down Tactical Narcotics Team 113	Posted - 2015.11.05 17:46:17 - [125] - Quote Querns wrote: Fredric Wolf wrote: Querns wrote: Fredric Wolf wrote: I am still upset with the tiericide project because all meta modules are better then base T1 mods. I do know know why these were made without trade offs to keep the base mod as a viable item. Why would I ever use a T1 when the compact is better in every single way? Cost. T1 modules are also necessary for building the T2 variants. I would agree with cost if meta in most cases were not cheaper then T1. Also I am not in agreement that T1 is only useful for T2 production. Care to give some examples of mods whose meta variants are cheaper than T1? Armor Plates, Miro-warp Drives, Missile Launchers. These are some and these are also ones that have already been tiericided.
Cristl 257	Posted - 2015.11.05 17:57:27 - [126] - Quote Querns wrote: Care to give some examples of mods whose meta variants are cheaper than T1? I hate nested quotes wrote: There are loads actually. Small capacitor battery, for example. How much are you going to pay per example? Querns wrote: The difference in cost there is on the order of about 10,000 isk, for a module that is extremely unpopular. (Still waiting for a quote here, Querns) Capacitor flux coils, capacitor power relays, shield flux coils... Sorry, I didn't see popularity in the remit, you just asked for examples. Anyway, do your own research here: eve-central As for popularity, perhaps you could leverage some of your alliance/CSM clout to nudge people like Rise to buff some of these underused modules...
Rossi Tenmar Decadence. RAZOR Alliance 43	Posted - 2015.11.05 18:02:12 - [127] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Changes Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators now Scramble, disabling MJDs and MWDs Oh yes! I like that!
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2247	Posted - 2015.11.05 18:07:26 - [128] - Quote Cristl wrote: Querns wrote: Care to give some examples of mods whose meta variants are cheaper than T1? I hate nested quotes wrote: There are loads actually. Small capacitor battery, for example. How much are you going to pay per example? Querns wrote: The difference in cost there is on the order of about 10,000 isk, for a module that is extremely unpopular. (Still waiting for a quote here, Querns) Capacitor flux coils, capacitor power relays, shield flux coils... Sorry, I didn't see popularity in the remit, you just asked for examples. Anyway, do your own research here: eve-central As for popularity, perhaps you could leverage some of your alliance/CSM clout to nudge people like Rise to buff some of these underused modules... You are vastly overestimating the degree of "clout" available. If we had any actual clout, we wouldn't have to resort to the nuclear option of enlisting our vast numbers to abuse the unbalanced/ludicrous thing for the express purpose of seeing it nerfed nearly as often as we do. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Aiyshimin Fistful of Finns Paisti Syndicate 568	Posted - 2015.11.05 18:14:43 - [129] - Quote FearlessLittleToaster wrote: As somebody who does solo PvP almost exclusively (and for the folks who don't believe me, check my killboard) I am in favor of these changes. This is for the simple reason that PvP options which allow one party to have minimal risk are horrible. When I undock I know I'm almost certainly dead, and I'm going to die outnumbered, webbed, scrammed, jammed, bubbled, and unable to so much as scratch the paint on my attackers. Such is life. If I wanted to fight a duel against an equal opponent I would play Starcraft. If I want a challenge from a game with a huge element of the unknown I will play Eve; its the occasions when I get it right and win against the odds, or take a target out and moonwalk off grid, that make it all worth it. If you think as an Eve player that you should have access to ships that are untouchable to any class but their own (read: any of the current long-point kiting setups) you need to re-evaluate what game you are playing. Your play-style received a huge buff with the introduction of the rapid light missile launcher, giving kiting cruisers a viciously effective way to kill fast tackle that was un-coutnerable by the tackle pilot. Now, with this change and missile disruptors, just a smidgen of that power is being clawed back. If "I might be forced to commit to a fight not of my choosing" makes you stop undocking then you shouldn't have been playing Eve in the first place. As for "the blob will win now", well, I would turn that question around and ask why ten guys should be able to attack a thousand well organized players with no fear of getting hit back? Such a good post.
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1240	Posted - 2015.11.05 18:15:19 - [130] - Quote could we see cap batteries get tiercided at the same time as they are the supposed counter too neuts, not that you would know atm they are pretty crap and unfittable. T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely. ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using

Blood Animus Catastrophic Overview Failure Brave Collective 1	Posted - 2015.11.05 18:16:48 - [131] - Quote Do not support change as it stands, reasons. RIP interceptors, they'll have to be dual prop to tackle things with HIC support since the scram will be as long as their point range but they'll be within scram range and once scrammed, they just explode. Better change would keep the scram, but give it a falloff into a point instead of scram after a certain range so you don't remove specialty tackle ships like inties and recons. I feel like 15km scram that falls off into a point past that is fine.
Yin Zheng Sequent Industry Out of Sight. 7	Posted - 2015.11.05 18:23:17 - [132] - Quote Blood Animus wrote: Better change would keep the scram, but give it a falloff into a point instead of scram after a certain range so you don't remove specialty tackle ships like inties and recons. I feel like 15km scram that falls off into a point past that is fine. Great idea.
1Robert McNamara1 The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 95	Posted - 2015.11.05 18:27:59 - [133] - Quote This may be the change that keeps HICs in the game. Nano dudes hear me out: We just saw an announcement that capitals will be getting some mobility buffs, Neuts/Nos will have effective range buffs, and that capitals could be pointed by mobs of smaller ships instead of by only a single use platform (hic). This all spells doom for the Hic. it really only did 2 things, both with some major trade offs. Take away the game's requirement for infinipoint, and the protection from neut range the long point provided, there wouldn't be much need for Hic except for the bubble that just makes normal dictors wish they'd hurry up and hit puberty. As the single use goes away, it's better game play to make it a more versatile ship. I'd rather CCP overshot a little, and backed off after getting data than pre-nerf like they did with Reactive Armor Hardeners (which got net-worse as you skilled them up). So a challenger enters your clean waters, he may be able to catch 1 person in your gang but he's anchored by massive mobility de-buffs so you probably still have some options. Options you wouldn't have with a Lachesis or Proteus. I see these changes as furthering the impact of grid positioning warfare that CCP seems to be encouraging. I like it. it requires people to make decisions and for groups to balance the abilities of another tool to bring to the fight or just more reps/deeps. Honestly I'm surprised you all seem much more upset about this than you are about neuts losing their hard range caps.
Syri Taneka Un4seen Development Sev3rance 121	Posted - 2015.11.05 18:35:43 - [134] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Suitonia wrote: A separate script that has reduced range (Maybe 40% of normal) would probably make this a bit more balanced. 37.5km Scrams on T2 HIC is incredibly powerful, and actually stronger than best faction linked heating Lachesis, obviously HICs can't get reps like a Lach can but they still have huge buffers and they will be incredibly problematic for small gangs, especially those without links. Yeah we've got this in our back pocket. We want to see how this works out, and if its too OP we'll introduce a new scrambling script with a shorter range. I have to agree with this being OP. I love it, really, I do (having t2 Generator skills and all)! But it's broken. What I would like to see, what would work well and makes sense, is for the focused point to disrupt MJD usage, jumping, and docking, and for a separate script to enable the focused point to scram (disable MWD as well) at a range of about 20km with t2 Generator and full skills.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2374	Posted - 2015.11.05 18:41:16 - [135] - Quote Skyler Hawk wrote: afkalt wrote: [quote=Aiyshimin]So much this. It's like they've never seen a proteus. Ed: 26.6 km scram, 185k EHP (not even slaved), over 900 DPS. Yeah....but these HICs....totally different To achieve that result with a proteus, you are using a 200m ISK faction scram on a 450m hull with links and heat, and even then you fall 10 km short of the tackling capabilities that hictors will get with just a t2 WDFG and no links, at a total cost of around 250m. It's not a remotely honest comparison. Because cost comes into balance right? I see you didn't mention over NINE HUNDRED dps.... Heaven forfend a tackle boat has gasp scary tackle! ! Still it was a close run thing, brawling was almost viable there....
Tipa Riot Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1670	Posted - 2015.11.05 18:45:44 - [136] - Quote 000708070 white wrote: 31.5km scrambler lol , i think i can see lots of 0.0 solo pilots tears and noone care nano ship solo dying . Yeah, this is very big buff to HICs I'm my own NPC alt.
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1240	Posted - 2015.11.05 18:52:53 - [137] - Quote Tipa Riot wrote: 000708070 white wrote: 31.5km scrambler lol , i think i can see lots of 0.0 solo pilots tears and noone care nano ship solo dying . Yeah, this is very big buff to HICs its ill thought out and ill conceived but i bet they will release it anyway only and a couple months down the line they will say oh actually you guys were right sorry for ignoring you again, and then they will do it with something else and not learn a damn thing but hey thats CCP for you. T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely. ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Styphon the Black Forced Euthanasia Soviet-Union 44	Posted - 2015.11.05 19:22:08 - [138] - Quote I really don't like this new warp scramble ability. I think that if it is added that it shouldn't be as large as a bubble as a none scripted warp bubble is. My worry is that this is an Area Effect weapon and it is too powerful. So you are not only able to shut off warping ability, you are able to turn off propulsion MWDs modules and MJD from spoiling without having to target and having any limits other than the amount of people that can fit within the bubbles influence. Added ability = A small sphere of influence. Just like Warp Scams are shorter range than Warp Disrupters. What is going to happen is that fleets will stop using MWD and switch to or have a backup AB.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2374	Posted - 2015.11.05 19:24:51 - [139] - Quote It's not a bubble at all.....
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2247	Posted - 2015.11.05 19:26:38 - [140] - Quote Styphon the Black wrote: I really don't like this new warp scramble ability. I think that if it is added that it shouldn't be as large as a bubble as a none scripted warp bubble is. My worry is that this is an Area Effect weapon and it is too powerful. So you are not only able to shut off warping ability, you are able to turn off propulsion MWDs modules and MJD from spoiling without having to target and having any limits other than the amount of people that can fit within the bubbles influence. Added ability = A small sphere of influence. Just like Warp Scams are shorter range than Warp Disrupters. What is going to happen is that fleets will stop using MWD and switch to or have a backup AB. The warp scramble effect is only available when using the Focused Warp Disruption script, which turns the bubble into a single-target effect. The bubbles emitted by Heavy Interdictors do not shut off MWD and MJD. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Travis Uchonela Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 38	Posted - 2015.11.05 19:38:41 - [141] - Quote FearlessLittleToaster wrote: As somebody who does solo PvP almost exclusively (and for the folks who don't believe me, check my killboard) I am in favor of these changes. This is for the simple reason that PvP options which allow one party to have minimal risk are horrible. When I undock I know I'm almost certainly dead, and I'm going to die outnumbered, webbed, scrammed, jammed, bubbled, and unable to so much as scratch the paint on my attackers. Such is life. If I wanted to fight a duel against an equal opponent I would play Starcraft. If I want a challenge from a game with a huge element of the unknown I will play Eve; its the occasions when I get it right and win against the odds, or take a target out and moonwalk off grid, that make it all worth it. If you think as an Eve player that you should have access to ships that are untouchable to any class but their own (read: any of the current long-point kiting setups) you need to re-evaluate what game you are playing. Your play-style received a huge buff with the introduction of the rapid light missile launcher, giving kiting cruisers a viciously effective way to kill fast tackle that was un-coutnerable by the tackle pilot. Now, with this change and missile disruptors, just a smidgen of that power is being clawed back. If "I might be forced to commit to a fight not of my choosing" makes you stop undocking then you shouldn't have been playing Eve in the first place. As for "the blob will win now", well, I would turn that question around and ask why ten guys should be able to attack a thousand well organized players with no fear of getting hit back? This says it all. Finally, something to tip the balance away from unhittable orthrus cancer.
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1240	Posted - 2015.11.05 19:46:16 - [142] - Quote Travis Uchonela wrote: FearlessLittleToaster wrote: As somebody who does solo PvP almost exclusively (and for the folks who don't believe me, check my killboard) I am in favor of these changes. This is for the simple reason that PvP options which allow one party to have minimal risk are horrible. When I undock I know I'm almost certainly dead, and I'm going to die outnumbered, webbed, scrammed, jammed, bubbled, and unable to so much as scratch the paint on my attackers. Such is life. If I wanted to fight a duel against an equal opponent I would play Starcraft. If I want a challenge from a game with a huge element of the unknown I will play Eve; its the occasions when I get it right and win against the odds, or take a target out and moonwalk off grid, that make it all worth it. If you think as an Eve player that you should have access to ships that are untouchable to any class but their own (read: any of the current long-point kiting setups) you need to re-evaluate what game you are playing. Your play-style received a huge buff with the introduction of the rapid light missile launcher, giving kiting cruisers a viciously effective way to kill fast tackle that was un-coutnerable by the tackle pilot. Now, with this change and missile disruptors, just a smidgen of that power is being clawed back. If "I might be forced to commit to a fight not of my choosing" makes you stop undocking then you shouldn't have been playing Eve in the first place. As for "the blob will win now", well, I would turn that question around and ask why ten guys should be able to attack a thousand well organized players with no fear of getting hit back? This says it all. Finally, something to tip the balance away from unhittable orthrus cancer. just because RLML's combined with the orthrus is OP doesn't mean too counter it we should have something else OP, instead they should look at nerfing the OP things so everythings balanced instead of OP stuff across the board T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely. ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Gorion Wassenar Stimulus Rote Kapelle 130	Posted - 2015.11.05 20:11:46 - [143] - Quote More 30+km scrams? How about no. 1) Other ships do this ALREADY. If you do this then there is no reason to use them instead except in limited scenarios. A counter already exists. Its no one's fault but their own that they are incapable of understanding this. 2) If the problem is people complaining about "certain skirmish ships" (the Mordu ships), maybe you should try fixing those ships instead of nerfing every nanoship that has the audacity to fly anything less than a 60+km sniper. Rote Kapelle - NOW IN SLIGHTLY MORE LAW ABIDING FLAVOR! "DRINK STARSI!" -¬-«GäóOwnership Group Chairman
Sahriah BloodStone No.Mercy Triumvirate. 231	Posted - 2015.11.05 20:19:28 - [144] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Changes Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators now Scramble, disabling MJDs and MWDs. GÖÑGÖÑGÖÑGÖÑGÖÑ Sahriah Bloodstone Praetor, No.Mercy "Never underestimate your enemy or disrespect its abilities. If you do, you shall become the hunted "
Alexis Nightwish 340	Posted - 2015.11.05 20:25:40 - [145] - Quote Reduce the skill requirements for low meta WDFGs. Currently they ALL take Propulsion Jamming V and Graviton Physics IV. Why not make it more like: Meta 0: Propulsion Jamming III, Graviton Physics II Meta 1: Propulsion Jamming IV, Graviton Physics III Meta 5: Propulsion Jamming V, Graviton Physics IV Meta 8: Propulsion Jamming V, Graviton Physics III CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge EVE Online's "I win!" Button Fixing bombs, not the bombers
Alexis Nightwish 340	Posted - 2015.11.05 20:27:53 - [146] - Quote The Restrained variant doesn't have a reduction in sig radius penalty? CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge EVE Online's "I win!" Button Fixing bombs, not the bombers
Alexis Nightwish 340	Posted - 2015.11.05 20:29:54 - [147] - Quote Lastly, please make it so that all scripted WDFGs prevent ANY targeted ship from jumping through stargates. Currently it is just capitals and that a) makes no sense, and b) is dumb. CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge EVE Online's "I win!" Button Fixing bombs, not the bombers
Gorion Wassenar Stimulus Rote Kapelle 131	Posted - 2015.11.05 20:46:32 - [148] - Quote Also, if the problem is that CCP thinks people are not using HIC's enough, maybe they should stop giving ships bubble immunity. Rote Kapelle - NOW IN SLIGHTLY MORE LAW ABIDING FLAVOR! "DRINK STARSI!" -¬-«GäóOwnership Group Chairman
Tappits North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion 194	Posted - 2015.11.05 20:48:28 - [149] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: CONCORD Warp Disruption Field Generator [Meta Level 0; Powergrid 84; CPU 50; Activation 150; Mass Modifier -80%; Thrust Bonus -70% (-5); Velocity Bonus -80% (-5); Signature Radius Bonus 50%; Bubble Range 21km][/list] Concord Hic point needs to be inline with the concord cloak so needing L5 skills but is % better than all other faction mods Then it gives us people who did train the skill to L5 a bonus mod for just been better than every one elce.
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2249	Posted - 2015.11.05 20:53:33 - [150] - Quote Tappits wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: CONCORD Warp Disruption Field Generator [Meta Level 0; Powergrid 84; CPU 50; Activation 150; Mass Modifier -80%; Thrust Bonus -70% (-5); Velocity Bonus -80% (-5); Signature Radius Bonus 50%; Bubble Range 21km][/list] Concord Hic point needs to be inline with the concord cloak so needing L5 skills but is % better than all other faction mods Then it gives us people who did train the skill to L5 a bonus mod for just been better than every one elce. By that logic, there should also be officer Warp Disruption Field Generators that are even better than the CONCORD one. (Cloaking 5 crew, what up.) This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

Teroh Vizjereij Rapid Withdrawal 12	Posted - 2015.11.05 20:53:59 - [151] - Quote As someone on reddit mentioned : Is now the time to ask for a more "fun" overheat mechanic for the Warp Disruption Field Gens? I mean sure, cycle time is a useful on the bubble, but most other ewar mod get range boni from it and a faster cycle time on nos/neuts makes sense. It still feels odd to get cycle time on scripted gens. It technically even hurts you to heat scripted gens in case you get neuted.
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 1308	Posted - 2015.11.05 21:08:29 - [152] - Quote Alexis Nightwish wrote: Reduce the skill requirements for low meta WDFGs. Currently they ALL take Propulsion Jamming V and Graviton Physics IV. Why not make it more like: Meta 0: Propulsion Jamming III, Graviton Physics II Meta 1: Propulsion Jamming IV, Graviton Physics III Meta 5: Propulsion Jamming V, Graviton Physics IV Meta 8: Propulsion Jamming V, Graviton Physics III It doesn't quite matter since prop jamming V is a requirement for the ship they're fitted on.
Styphon the Black Forced Euthanasia Soviet-Union 44	Posted - 2015.11.05 21:16:12 - [153] - Quote Querns wrote: Styphon the Black wrote: I really don't like this new warp scramble ability. I think that if it is added that it shouldn't be as large as a bubble as a none scripted warp bubble is. My worry is that this is an Area Effect weapon and it is too powerful. So you are not only able to shut off warping ability, you are able to turn off propulsion MWDs modules and MJD from spoiling without having to target and having any limits other than the amount of people that can fit within the bubbles influence. Added ability = A small sphere of influence. Just like Warp Scams are shorter range than Warp Disrupters. What is going to happen is that fleets will stop using MWD and switch to or have a backup AB. The warp scramble effect is only available when using the Focused Warp Disruption script, which turns the bubble into a single-target effect. The bubbles emitted by Heavy Interdictors do not shut off MWD and MJD. OK good. I thought that was what was being implied was a "bubble". Thanks for clearing that up.
Alexis Nightwish 341	Posted - 2015.11.05 21:26:38 - [154] - Quote Lloyd Roses wrote: Alexis Nightwish wrote: Reduce the skill requirements for low meta WDFGs. Currently they ALL take Propulsion Jamming V and Graviton Physics IV. Why not make it more like: Meta 0: Propulsion Jamming III, Graviton Physics II Meta 1: Propulsion Jamming IV, Graviton Physics III Meta 5: Propulsion Jamming V, Graviton Physics IV Meta 8: Propulsion Jamming V, Graviton Physics III It doesn't quite matter since prop jamming V is a requirement for the ship they're fitted on. Good point. I was only thinking about the skills, not the ships. My stance on the Grav Physics skill still stands. CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge EVE Online's "I win!" Button Fixing bombs, not the bombers
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2250	Posted - 2015.11.05 21:37:28 - [155] - Quote Styphon the Black wrote: Querns wrote: Styphon the Black wrote: I really don't like this new warp scramble ability. I think that if it is added that it shouldn't be as large as a bubble as a none scripted warp bubble is. My worry is that this is an Area Effect weapon and it is too powerful. So you are not only able to shut off warping ability, you are able to turn off propulsion MWDs modules and MJD from spoiling without having to target and having any limits other than the amount of people that can fit within the bubbles influence. Added ability = A small sphere of influence. Just like Warp Scams are shorter range than Warp Disrupters. What is going to happen is that fleets will stop using MWD and switch to or have a backup AB. The warp scramble effect is only available when using the Focused Warp Disruption script, which turns the bubble into a single-target effect. The bubbles emitted by Heavy Interdictors do not shut off MWD and MJD. I thought that was what was being implied was a "bubble". So where does it say it is a Focused single target effect? From the OP: Original Post wrote: Changes Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators now Scramble, disabling MJDs and MWDs Read the original post here. Warp Disruption Field Generators only have one script. This script turns the bubble into a single-target disruption beam with an effectively unlimited strength. This is useful for tackling supercapitals. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Ransu Asanari AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse 468	Posted - 2015.11.05 21:46:00 - [156] - Quote This seems like a good idea, considering the announced capital changes, where it will be possible to tackle a Supercapital with conventional warp disruption, but requiring much more warp disruption strength. No Storyline HIC module? If you're adding Meta and Faction modules, why not Storyline as well to give them more value, combined with the additional changes being made to Data sites? Why is the Faction module being given to Sansha? They already have a good LP store with Pirate Faction ships. Why not give it to the Syndicate LP store, since they received the Surgical Warp Disrupt Probe? Or one of the other factions that doesn't have a unique item, like Society of Concious Thought in Geminate, or Thukker Tribe in Great Wildlands? I like that the focused script now disable scrams and MJD. I do think that the range is a bit OP however for a scram effect. I agree with Sutonia that the range should be reduced and enabled with a separate script.
Odris Meza The Reborn The Gorgon Empire 13	Posted - 2015.11.05 22:05:32 - [157] - Quote Alexis Nightwish wrote: Lastly, please make it so that all scripted WDFGs prevent ANY targeted ship from jumping through stargates. Currently it is just capitals and that a) makes no sense, and b) is dumb. Shouldnt it's just oneshot any ship insteed?
Ariete Future Corps Sleeper Social Club 51	Posted - 2015.11.05 22:13:53 - [158] - Quote Currently a infinite point will stop a capital from warping or jumping through a gate. Could we see a change. Current Infinite point script remains as is ie stop warping but has the stopping gates removed. A new script added to stop any ship from using a Gate, Wormhole, Cyno or docking, however it would not effect the ability of warping off. Here's some of the more insane ideas that I have heard over the years. Web Bubble Neut Bubble Damp Bubble Jam Bubble Mass Bubble, increases mass of any ship in the bubble by 100% Solid Bubble, A bubble that is solid so as it expands it pushes ships out of the way. So CSM IX ????
Desorem The Reborn The Gorgon Empire 7	Posted - 2015.11.05 23:43:45 - [159] - Quote I do like the changes in WDFG, but things of such power should have disadvantages - 1 per ship for example. People WILL abuse zero-dps 4-5-6-generator hic with 200k ehp, because who gives a puck 'bout dps when you can scram 4-5-6 targets at 30+ km. So hard capping amount of WDFGs have to be a first step in this changes. Well, okay, 35km+ is TOO MUCH, but if you make it shorter then, lets say ~20km none will want it but gatecampers. And make generator with new script impossible to activate if ship is less then 35 km away from stargate.
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1908	Posted - 2015.11.06 00:59:39 - [160] - Quote Swiftstrike1 wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators now Scramble, disabling MJDs and MWDs This is by far the most meaningful and best part of the changes. +1,000,000 On a side note, do (scripted) Warp Disruption Field Generators benefit from Skirmish Warfare Links that increase point range? If not, they should do. No, they do not. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here? I'm stubborn.

FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1908	Posted - 2015.11.06 01:16:19 - [161] - Quote Alexis Nightwish wrote: Lastly, please make it so that all scripted WDFGs prevent ANY targeted ship from jumping through stargates. Currently it is just capitals and that a) makes no sense, and b) is dumb. Honestly, I do not think anything should stop any ship from jumping back through a stargate (except an aggression timer). But maybe that's just me... Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here? I'm stubborn.
Captain StringfellowHawk Forsaken Reavers Goonswarm Federation 261	Posted - 2015.11.06 01:23:17 - [162] - Quote Skyler Hawk wrote: afkalt wrote: [quote=Aiyshimin]So much this. It's like they've never seen a proteus. Ed: 26.6 km scram, 185k EHP (not even slaved), over 900 DPS. Yeah....but these HICs....totally different To achieve that result with a proteus, you are using a 200m ISK faction scram on a 450m hull with links and heat, and even then you fall 10 km short of the tackling capabilities that hictors will get with just a t2 WDFG and no links, at a total cost of around 250m. It's not a remotely honest comparison. I used that 200m Faction scram on every proteus period. You faction web a loki... Whats a 200m Scram on a proti? Running a few anoms, level 4's or any other PVE site and its yours. Considering when you field a proteus in small gang or even solo you almost always get the kill, unless the "Small gang" blob gets you.
Madrax573 Bastion of Mad Behaviour 16	Posted - 2015.11.06 01:28:02 - [163] - Quote I've not had much to do with bubbles apart from annoying some locals when I go for a jaunt through null however I do have a lot of concern of the size of these bubbles that can scram! I don't have an issue with bubbles as they are a great tactical tool. However having massive scram bubbles will just kill of a lot of people like me who take little walks through null and have to rely on the fact that bubbles don't scram to be able to travel. If you want to make the bubble scram at least reduce there range so you can at least try to escape. If the range isn't decreased it just makes them way OP in controlling the area. That level of control should be for active piloting only not a 'field' effect IMO. The universe is my playground
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1908	Posted - 2015.11.06 01:29:00 - [164] - Quote Madrax573 wrote: I've not had much to do with bubbles apart from annoying some locals when I go for a jaunt through null however I do have a lot of concern of the size of these bubbles that can scram! I don't have an issue with bubbles as they are a great tactical tool. However having massive scram bubbles will just kill of a lot of people like me who take little walks through null and have to rely on the fact that bubbles don't scram to be able to travel. If you want to make the bubble scram at least reduce there range so you can at least try to escape. If the range isn't decreased it just makes them way OP in controlling the area. That level of control should be for active piloting only not a 'field' effect IMO. Please Train Reading Comprension to Level 1. The bubble does not scram. You put in a script and it no longer generates a bubble. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here? I'm stubborn.
elitatwo Eve Minions The-Company 906	Posted - 2015.11.06 01:39:36 - [165] - Quote So give me give a translation of what CCP is "offering" the lobbyists from farmville online: Hey kids, wanna has a 40km scram on an unsinkable boat for all your prescious citadels. We heard you and you said you wanted your farms in farmville-land free of content, so you can farmville your lands in high- errm not so nullsec, there you go. Oh by the way, you tax returns on moon poo just increased, happy farmville everyone!!!!1111one.. How about NO? Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
Captain StringfellowHawk Forsaken Reavers Goonswarm Federation 261	Posted - 2015.11.06 01:41:34 - [166] - Quote I am all for these HIC changes as it gives them use in the current Nullify all the roams meta. At least with this ship the chance of catching something raises up higher. Currently its he decloaked and is 90km away already, or he decloaked.. and he warped. Tho the bubble wont be stopping them from warping away as the Script is the only thing changing, at least you have a chance of grabbing one now without needing to pray to server ticks or a crap load of linked ceptors. I sold my HIC long ago because in todays meta it became useless. Every roam encountered burned out of bubbles or just warped off and your stuck on grid waiting for it to drop. Now the hics have a chance to play again in the small gang world or even Solo. Only true way to see is when it comes out. Pending on how many risk-averse people throw pitchforks around over low cost frigs that now have a chance of getting pointed.
Catherine Laartii Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate 618	Posted - 2015.11.06 01:42:05 - [167] - Quote For all the people saying that the long scram is going to be OP, broken, etc. consider this: It's still only one infini-point per hictor. It's really not that powerful if you're fighting with friends, especially considering that most of these are slow enough to get locked down by a heavy brawler (or several).
Madrax573 Bastion of Mad Behaviour 16	Posted - 2015.11.06 01:46:48 - [168] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: Madrax573 wrote: I've not had much to do with bubbles apart from annoying some locals when I go for a jaunt through null however I do have a lot of concern of the size of these bubbles that can scram! I don't have an issue with bubbles as they are a great tactical tool. However having massive scram bubbles will just kill of a lot of people like me who take little walks through null and have to rely on the fact that bubbles don't scram to be able to travel. If you want to make the bubble scram at least reduce there range so you can at least try to escape. If the range isn't decreased it just makes them way OP in controlling the area. That level of control should be for active piloting only not a 'field' effect IMO. Please Train Reading Comprension to Level 1. The bubble does not scram. You put in a script and it no longer generates a bubble. I have gone through the entire thread and item descriptions and can't see anywhere where it says that once it's scripted the bubble is not generated. Please link a quote/doc or something that states this as if this is the case then I'm fine with it. Not trolling or arguing I just can't find where it say that and want to clarify my understanding. Cheers The universe is my playground
Querns GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation 2256	Posted - 2015.11.06 01:50:11 - [169] - Quote Desorem wrote: I do like the changes in WDFG, but things of such power should come with restrictions - 1 per ship for example. People WILL abuse zero-dps 4-5-6-generator hic with 200k ehp, because who gives a puck 'bout dps when you can scram 4-5-6 targets at 30+ km. So hard capping amount of WDFGs have to be a first step in this changes. Well, okay, 35km+ is TOO MUCH, but if you make it shorter then, lets say ~20km none will want it but gatecampers. And make generator with new script impossible to activate if hic is less then 35 km away from stargate. WDFGs take up a lot of CPU and use a fair bit of capacitor. It's highly unlikely you'd be able to get cap stable AND 200k EHP. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1910	Posted - 2015.11.06 02:27:05 - [170] - Quote Desorem wrote: I do like the changes in WDFG, but things of such power should come with restrictions - 1 per ship for example. I completely agree with this part. Especially since I hear that you can sneak a HIC into a frigate only WH by fitting multiple WDFG's. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here? I'm stubborn.

FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1910	Posted - 2015.11.06 02:31:25 - [171] - Quote Madrax573 wrote: FT Diomedes wrote: Madrax573 wrote: I've not had much to do with bubbles apart from annoying some locals when I go for a jaunt through null however I do have a lot of concern of the size of these bubbles that can scram! I don't have an issue with bubbles as they are a great tactical tool. However having massive scram bubbles will just kill of a lot of people like me who take little walks through null and have to rely on the fact that bubbles don't scram to be able to travel. If you want to make the bubble scram at least reduce there range so you can at least try to escape. If the range isn't decreased it just makes them way OP in controlling the area. That level of control should be for active piloting only not a 'field' effect IMO. Please Train Reading Comprension to Level 1. The bubble does not scram. You put in a script and it no longer generates a bubble. I have gone through the entire thread and item descriptions and can't see anywhere where it says that once it's scripted the bubble is not generated. Please link a quote/doc or something that states this as if this is the case then I'm fine with it. Not trolling or arguing I just can't find where it say that and want to clarify my understanding. Cheers Quote: Changes Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators now Scramble, disabling MJDs and MWDs From the current description for the Focused Warp Disruption Script: Quote: This script can be loaded into a warp disruption field generator to focus its effect upon a single ship much like a standard warp disruptor. This allows the module to scramble ships of any size, including ships normally immune to all forms of electronic warfare. Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here? I'm stubborn.
Judas Lonestar Stryker Industries 127	Posted - 2015.11.06 02:55:51 - [172] - Quote Soooo, wheres the generator to prevent warping, prevent MJDing, prevent MWDing and cause all objects in the bubble range to decloak. Thats the disrupt generator I want.
Sentient Blade Crisis Atmosphere Coalition of the Unfortunate 1555	Posted - 2015.11.06 03:06:36 - [173] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Yeah we've got this in our back pocket. We want to see how this works out, and if its too OP we'll introduce a new scrambling script with a shorter range. Save yourself the trouble and put it in at the start. You can adjust its range and such in future balance passes without starting off with something that is clearly OP as hell.
Zorena The Red Circle Inc. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 11	Posted - 2015.11.06 03:15:02 - [174] - Quote Hi, 10nm afterburner keres might be the good thing to counter it if not just the regular one, I see them being a problem only if they are blobbing with them, so I guess goonspace is going to even be more dangerous to goto when its released sence small kitey gangs are going to have all sorts of problems fighting blobs of thise ships. grr goons, I still think its a cool change tho.
Madrax573 Bastion of Mad Behaviour 16	Posted - 2015.11.06 03:34:00 - [175] - Quote FT Diomedes [quote wrote: Changes Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators now Scramble, disabling MJDs and MWDs From the current description for the Focused Warp Disruption Script: Quote: This script can be loaded into a warp disruption field generator to focus its effect upon a single ship much like a standard warp disruptor. This allows the module to scramble ships of any size, including ships normally immune to all forms of electronic warfare. [/quote] Awesome cheers. Well then I can't see any major issue with this tbh. The universe is my playground
Grm Makentor Low Drag. 32	Posted - 2015.11.06 04:31:42 - [176] - Quote Hi I havnt read the 9 pages of comments but i wanted to say the hictor scripted scram is going to be a giant pain in the ass for anyone who likes to fight outnumbered with a kite fit. Why do you hate solo players, why do you feel the need to buff gate camps and blobs, why do you continue to push eve players towards joining giant corps/alliances?
Sabriz Adoudel Black Hydra Consortium. 5460	Posted - 2015.11.06 06:02:32 - [177] - Quote This looks like an interesting shakeup. I'm not sure if I'd support adding deadspace WDFGs; I'm leaning toward it. They'd have their uses. I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 2668	Posted - 2015.11.06 06:21:50 - [178] - Quote Grm Makentor wrote: Hi I havnt read the 9 pages of comments but i wanted to say the hictor scripted scram is going to be a giant pain in the ass for anyone who likes to fight outnumbered with a kite fit. Why do you hate solo players, why do you feel the need to buff gate camps and blobs, why do you continue to push eve players towards joining giant corps/alliances? This adds nothing a gate camp could not already do to you. A Solo player is not applying enough DPS to make any real difference if they use an Azeru or if they use a new HIC. Except the HIC can't continue to chase you if you are oversize AB fitted. So for solo players, 0 difference.
Challus Mercer Sacred Temple The Gorgon Empire 21	Posted - 2015.11.06 07:04:10 - [179] - Quote Catherine Laartii wrote: For all the people saying that the long scram is going to be OP, broken, etc. consider this: It's still only one infini-point per hictor. It's really not that powerful if you're fighting with friends, especially considering that most of these are slow enough to get locked down by a heavy brawler (or several). Not exactly. You can fit a lot of this to a single hictor. Cap booster solves all problems with cap.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2378	Posted - 2015.11.06 08:18:22 - [180] - Quote Querns wrote: Desorem wrote: I do like the changes in WDFG, but things of such power should come with restrictions - 1 per ship for example. People WILL abuse zero-dps 4-5-6-generator hic with 200k ehp, because who gives a puck 'bout dps when you can scram 4-5-6 targets at 30+ km. So hard capping amount of WDFGs have to be a first step in this changes. Well, okay, 35km+ is TOO MUCH, but if you make it shorter then, lets say ~20km none will want it but gatecampers. And make generator with new script impossible to activate if hic is less then 35 km away from stargate. WDFGs take up a lot of CPU and use a fair bit of capacitor. It's highly unlikely you'd be able to get cap stable AND 200k EHP. You know reality isn't welcome here, right Still, at least I learned just how disgusted many, many people seem to be at the idea of committing to a fight.

Anthar Thebess 1372	Posted - 2015.11.06 08:29:53 - [181] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Q&A Q: Where will we get the new meta and faction modules?! A: Meta modules will drop from NPCs like current meta modules. The Faction modules will drop & be in LP stores like current Sansha and CONCORD modules. When rest of the true/sansha modules will be put to sansha LP store as currently we don't have there any. Just implants , worthless faction ammo ( much worst than imperial navy) and faction XL ammo for revelations , that almost no one use. Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
sabastyian Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out 30	Posted - 2015.11.06 08:47:36 - [182] - Quote Have you considered making it so when using a WDFG the base resistance of a ship drops by 75% but they can receive remote assistance? Or some similar resistance drop so people flying hics actually have half a chance in surviving until they they can shut the field off?
Inggroth The Reborn The Gorgon Empire 45	Posted - 2015.11.06 10:29:54 - [183] - Quote Sup Larrikin, are you guys aware that this will push small- and probably medscale meta heavily towards oversized Afterburners? In terms of balance oversized ABs are a thing many complain about already. Also, just for example: 100mn AB Broadsword with full force multiplication (links/mid-grade snakes) is pretty strong already, and now it gets an ultra-long scram. My suggestion here would be: make focused HIC script subject to the same mobility penalties as the bubble, IMO this would solve a lot of concerns.
Aiyshimin Fistful of Finns Paisti Syndicate 576	Posted - 2015.11.06 10:45:13 - [184] - Quote Inggroth wrote: Sup Larrikin, are you guys aware that this will push small- and probably medscale meta heavily towards oversized Afterburners? In terms of balance/game design oversized ABs are a thing many complain about already. Also, just for example: 100mn AB Broadsword with full force multiplication (links/mid-grade snakes) is pretty strong already, and now it would get an ultra-long scram. My suggestion here would be: make focused HIC script subject to the same mobility penalties as the bubble, IMO this would solve at least some of players concerns. Easier fix to this is to make it impossible to fit oversized stuff like propulsion and shield extenders & boosters.
Aiyshimin Fistful of Finns Paisti Syndicate 577	Posted - 2015.11.06 11:02:31 - [185] - Quote Grm Makentor wrote: Hi I havnt read the 9 pages of comments but i wanted to say the hictor scripted scram is going to be a giant pain in the ass for anyone who likes to fight outnumbered with a kite fit. Why do you hate solo players, why do you feel the need to buff gate camps and blobs, why do you continue to push eve players towards joining giant corps/alliances? Apparently they need a buff if you can win them outnumbered. Kiter's Blindness (as defined by Roime et al) is a recently found mental condition defined by it's delusional spectrum. Subjects typically exhibit delusions of grandeur, when in reality their experienced success can be traced back to broken game mechanics such as the total domination of speed over every other ship attribute, imbalanced individual ships and equipment, and off-grid boosts. Second dominant delusion in the spectrum is persecutory delusion- when interviewed, nearly all subjects express conviction that "CCP devs always favour blobs and want to kill all solo/small gang PVP, and that the blob is against them in every situation". In addition to these main delusions, they express a strong sense of entitlement, as well as pronounced resistance to any change that might make their autowinmobiles vulnerable in at least some marginal and exceedingly rare situation.
Captain StringfellowHawk Forsaken Reavers Goonswarm Federation 263	Posted - 2015.11.06 11:08:58 - [186] - Quote afkalt wrote: Querns wrote: Desorem wrote: I do like the changes in WDFG, but things of such power should come with restrictions - 1 per ship for example. People WILL abuse zero-dps 4-5-6-generator hic with 200k ehp, because who gives a puck 'bout dps when you can scram 4-5-6 targets at 30+ km. So hard capping amount of WDFGs have to be a first step in this changes. Well, okay, 35km+ is TOO MUCH, but if you make it shorter then, lets say ~20km none will want it but gatecampers. And make generator with new script impossible to activate if hic is less then 35 km away from stargate. WDFGs take up a lot of CPU and use a fair bit of capacitor. It's highly unlikely you'd be able to get cap stable AND 200k EHP. You know reality isn't welcome here, right Still, at least I learned just how disgusted many, many people seem to be at the idea of committing to a fight. What, you seriously expected people in a PVP game to commit to fights? What is this 2008?
Randolph Sykes Method Synergy 22	Posted - 2015.11.06 11:21:35 - [187] - Quote Aiyshimin wrote: So many posts basically saying "omg I can't kite in my OP linked kiting autism chariot with absolute impunity and feel elite anymore if the enemies have a HIC" Aiyshimin wrote: Subjects typically exhibit delusions of grandeur, when in reality their experienced success can be traced back to broken game mechanics such as the total domination of speed over every other ship attribute, imbalanced individual ships and equipment, and off-grid boosts. Second dominant delusion in the spectrum is persecutory delusion- when interviewed, nearly all subjects express conviction that "CCP devs always favour blobs and want to kill all solo/small gang PVP, and that the blob is against them in every situation". In addition to these main delusions, they express a strong sense of entitlement, as well as pronounced resistance to any change that might make their autowinmobiles vulnerable in at least some marginal and exceedingly rare situation. Couldn't help but chuckle at you being completely clueless. Kiting gangs of autowinmobiles are going to be absolutely invulnerable thanks to this new stuff.
Challus Mercer Sacred Temple The Gorgon Empire 21	Posted - 2015.11.06 11:27:50 - [188] - Quote Aiyshimin wrote: Inggroth wrote: Sup Larrikin, are you guys aware that this will push small- and probably medscale meta heavily towards oversized Afterburners? In terms of balance/game design oversized ABs are a thing many complain about already. Also, just for example: 100mn AB Broadsword with full force multiplication (links/mid-grade snakes) is pretty strong already, and now it would get an ultra-long scram. My suggestion here would be: make focused HIC script subject to the same mobility penalties as the bubble, IMO this would solve at least some of players concerns. Easier fix to this is to make it impossible to fit oversized stuff like propulsion and shield extenders & boosters. So you want to say that the only way to counter long scrams should be cut? How do you suppose then the solo and small scale pilots without scout alt should escape scan res gate camps?
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2381	Posted - 2015.11.06 11:36:20 - [189] - Quote Challus Mercer wrote: Aiyshimin wrote: Inggroth wrote: Sup Larrikin, are you guys aware that this will push small- and probably medscale meta heavily towards oversized Afterburners? In terms of balance/game design oversized ABs are a thing many complain about already. Also, just for example: 100mn AB Broadsword with full force multiplication (links/mid-grade snakes) is pretty strong already, and now it would get an ultra-long scram. My suggestion here would be: make focused HIC script subject to the same mobility penalties as the bubble, IMO this would solve at least some of players concerns. Easier fix to this is to make it impossible to fit oversized stuff like propulsion and shield extenders & boosters. So you want to say that the only way to counter long scrams should be cut? How do you suppose then the solo and small scale pilots without scout alt should escape scan res gate camps? See what's fundamentally wrong here is that you're inferring that dying to a prepared group when you are alone is somehow "bad" or "wrong". Ed: I should clarify that this is not just you, the quoted poster, this attitude is rife across this thread. "zomg, that gang of prepared pilots who outnumber me might actually kill me! THE HUMANITY!"
Aiyshimin Fistful of Finns Paisti Syndicate 578	Posted - 2015.11.06 11:53:46 - [190] - Quote Randolph Sykes wrote: Aiyshimin wrote: So many posts basically saying "omg I can't kite in my OP linked kiting autism chariot with absolute impunity and feel elite anymore if the enemies have a HIC" Aiyshimin wrote: Subjects typically exhibit delusions of grandeur, when in reality their experienced success can be traced back to broken game mechanics such as the total domination of speed over every other ship attribute, imbalanced individual ships and equipment, and off-grid boosts. Second dominant delusion in the spectrum is persecutory delusion- when interviewed, nearly all subjects express conviction that "CCP devs always favour blobs and want to kill all solo/small gang PVP, and that the blob is against them in every situation". In addition to these main delusions, they express a strong sense of entitlement, as well as pronounced resistance to any change that might make their autowinmobiles vulnerable in at least some marginal and exceedingly rare situation. Couldn't help but chuckle at you being completely clueless. Kiting gangs of autowinmobiles are going to be absolutely invulnerable thanks to this new stuff. Try again mate, you kind of missed the point there.

Captain StringfellowHawk Forsaken Reavers Goonswarm Federation 265	Posted - 2015.11.06 12:46:08 - [191] - Quote Aiyshimin wrote: Randolph Sykes wrote: Aiyshimin wrote: So many posts basically saying "omg I can't kite in my OP linked kiting autism chariot with absolute impunity and feel elite anymore if the enemies have a HIC" Aiyshimin wrote: Subjects typically exhibit delusions of grandeur, when in reality their experienced success can be traced back to broken game mechanics such as the total domination of speed over every other ship attribute, imbalanced individual ships and equipment, and off-grid boosts. Second dominant delusion in the spectrum is persecutory delusion- when interviewed, nearly all subjects express conviction that "CCP devs always favour blobs and want to kill all solo/small gang PVP, and that the blob is against them in every situation". In addition to these main delusions, they express a strong sense of entitlement, as well as pronounced resistance to any change that might make their autowinmobiles vulnerable in at least some marginal and exceedingly rare situation. Couldn't help but chuckle at you being completely clueless. Kiting gangs of autowinmobiles are going to be absolutely invulnerable thanks to this new stuff. Try again mate, you kind of missed the point there. Well, hopefully when these changes go thru he wont miss any more points :P
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 1312	Posted - 2015.11.06 13:38:43 - [192] - Quote afkalt wrote: "zomg, that gang of prepared pilots who outnumber me might actually kill me! THE HUMANITY!" I'm more concerned about diversity of viable fits. With those changes on the horizon, it won't phase me that much beyond boxing every ship in my hangar that isn't a 100mn tengu/sleipnir/broadsword/Nexor or otherwise overpropped svipul/sabre or whatnot. From my POV, pvppppppp is normal though you can drag people apart by going fast and have them split on grid into slow, not so slow and fast people, turning pvpppppp into many small pvps, now it's becoming INFINIPOINT M8, get rekt! AND NO PULLING RANGE TO OUR FALCON! Ofc I'm overreacting, but simply having such long scrams avaiable and eventually people abusing those for remote sebod instalock hole/gatecamps is making me pretty sad. 100mn Tengue, you're viable again GÖÑ
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2383	Posted - 2015.11.06 13:43:26 - [193] - Quote Lloyd Roses wrote: afkalt wrote: "zomg, that gang of prepared pilots who outnumber me might actually kill me! THE HUMANITY!" I'm more concerned about diversity of viable fits. With those changes on the horizon, it won't phase me that much beyond boxing every ship in my hangar that isn't a 100mn tengu/sleipnir/broadsword/Nexor or otherwise overpropped svipul/sabre or whatnot. From my POV, pvppppppp is normal though you can drag people apart by going fast and have them split on grid into slow, not so slow and fast people, turning pvpppppp into many small pvps, now it's becoming INFINIPOINT M8, get rekt! AND NO PULLING RANGE TO OUR FALCON! Ofc I'm overreacting, but simply having such long scrams avaiable and eventually people abusing those for remote sebod instalock hole/gatecamps is making me pretty sad. 100mn Tengue, you're viable again GÖÑ See that's the thing, some people see it as the death of kiting whereas me, I see it as a massive long overdue shot in the arm for brawling. It also will encourage people to diversify fleet comps a little - suddenly that blackbird/sentinel pilot is looking a lot more appealing, for example. Maybe all those utility neuts can be put to good use. It'll shake up the meta quite a bit and that's always a good thing, it'll revitalise a lot of stuff that was quite literally choked to death by the kiting meta. A change is as good as a rest, as they say.
elitatwo Eve Minions The-Company 907	Posted - 2015.11.06 13:45:24 - [194] - Quote Randolph Sykes wrote: ...Couldn't help but chuckle at you being completely clueless. Kiting gangs of autowinmobiles are going to be absolutely invulnerable thanks to this new stuff. Couldn't help but lol myself under table. Since you are almost familiar with mechanics and stuffGäó may I steer you to youtube and Chessur's or Suitonia's "how to not loose constantly to blobb" channels. I know what they are doing and it takes a lot of experience to pull these kinds of stunt they pull, kudos to them. It also almost pains me that fighting a possible 50000 member support "gang" with 4 or 5 people that magically "outnumber" you sound like "autowin" to you but maybe you should try this on your own sometimes. EVE comes with blurry difficutly levels ranging from megablobb, very easy, gatecamps with logi, easy, medium, hard, very hard, solo, Warlords of the Deep. What level do you prefer? Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 1312	Posted - 2015.11.06 14:04:13 - [195] - Quote Kiting should remain viable, and simple Infinipoint covering 1.5 times traditional long point range sounds terribly one-sided. If they got a HIC, your ship choices are down to those that pull off 2km/s+ with overprop and marauders. If they don't, then there's little reason to not take out the rail phobos and kite them somewhere between 20k (webrange) and 40k (scramrange).
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2383	Posted - 2015.11.06 14:13:57 - [196] - Quote Kiting will still remain viable, what will take a hit is solo kiting. And if they have a HIC, bring scram web AB brawlers. Or have dual prop tacklers holding things down whilst the kiting ships plink damage from afar. Or ewar it to death. Or just shoot the bastard since he'll be much easier to kill than a lach or a prot which receives reps. But in the interests of balance and honesty, I'll admit that perhaps that it is simply that I'm tired of the speed meta, tired of people just "nope"ing out of fights the second it doesn't go their way. Eve should reward the people prepared to go all in, not this non committal rubbish that's dominated for years. I just don't believe getting people to commit to the fight is a bad thing. I certainly do not think the sky is falling anything like as much as many. Happily this also closes the value gap between MWD and ABs.
Randolph Sykes Method Synergy 22	Posted - 2015.11.06 14:16:30 - [197] - Quote elitatwo wrote: EVE comes with blurry difficutly levels ranging from megablobb, very easy, gatecamps with logi, easy, medium, hard, very hard, solo, Warlords of the Deep. What level do you prefer? My killboard should say it all to you. If not, may I steer you to youtube and the Lussy Lou's channel, where I show up occasionally. Now that my play style is clear to you, let me ask you how allowing HICs to create a no-fly area around a kiting gang for hostile fast tackle ships is something kite gangs will suffer from? HICs are going to be essential for null roaming gangs already due to the ability to prevent enemy from hiding in a citadel. Now that they are also going to be very effective for preventing hostiles from getting on top of your friends, I can only thank CCP for being nice to us kitey rascals once in a while.
Challus Mercer Sacred Temple The Gorgon Empire 21	Posted - 2015.11.06 14:22:48 - [198] - Quote afkalt wrote: Challus Mercer wrote: Aiyshimin wrote: Inggroth wrote: Sup Larrikin, are you guys aware that this will push small- and probably medscale meta heavily towards oversized Afterburners? In terms of balance/game design oversized ABs are a thing many complain about already. Also, just for example: 100mn AB Broadsword with full force multiplication (links/mid-grade snakes) is pretty strong already, and now it would get an ultra-long scram. My suggestion here would be: make focused HIC script subject to the same mobility penalties as the bubble, IMO this would solve at least some of players concerns. Easier fix to this is to make it impossible to fit oversized stuff like propulsion and shield extenders & boosters. So you want to say that the only way to counter long scrams should be cut? How do you suppose then the solo and small scale pilots without scout alt should escape scan res gate camps? See what's fundamentally wrong here is that you're inferring that dying to a prepared group when you are alone is somehow "bad" or "wrong". Ed: I should clarify that this is not just you, the quoted poster, this attitude is rife across this thread. "zomg, that gang of prepared pilots who outnumber me might actually kill me! THE HUMANITY!" Dying in a fight is not a problem. Pvpers die a lot. The problem are the game mechanics that have (almost) no counterplay like this new scramblers on hictors with insane length. Sure the recons have similar abilities but are much expensiver and easier to kill even if you fight solo against a blob(http://kb.serpent.is/battle/r293011/) kill a hictor in this way will be impossible. On top of that such heavy tacklers will make frigs even more obsolete. As i already mentioned im my previous posts - l33t pvpers won't be hurt much by this change, coz they have scouts, links and 100mn ab fits, but new players without all of this gonna feel pain, a lot of pain.
Switch Savage The Tuskers The Tuskers Co. 209	Posted - 2015.11.06 15:10:43 - [199] - Quote Challus Mercer wrote: Aiyshimin wrote: Inggroth wrote: Sup Larrikin, are you guys aware that this will push small- and probably medscale meta heavily towards oversized Afterburners? In terms of balance/game design oversized ABs are a thing many complain about already. Also, just for example: 100mn AB Broadsword with full force multiplication (links/mid-grade snakes) is pretty strong already, and now it would get an ultra-long scram. My suggestion here would be: make focused HIC script subject to the same mobility penalties as the bubble, IMO this would solve at least some of players concerns. Easier fix to this is to make it impossible to fit oversized stuff like propulsion and shield extenders & boosters. So you want to say that the only way to counter long scrams should be cut? How do you suppose then the solo and small scale pilots without scout alt should escape scan res gate camps? Get a Scout alt :p In all seriousness though you will get caught jumping into a proper gate camp regardless how is this any different.
Lady Rift What Shall We Call It 238	Posted - 2015.11.06 15:14:27 - [200] - Quote Challus Mercer wrote: afkalt wrote: Challus Mercer wrote: Aiyshimin wrote: Inggroth wrote: Sup Larrikin, are you guys aware that this will push small- and probably medscale meta heavily towards oversized Afterburners? In terms of balance/game design oversized ABs are a thing many complain about already. Also, just for example: 100mn AB Broadsword with full force multiplication (links/mid-grade snakes) is pretty strong already, and now it would get an ultra-long scram. My suggestion here would be: make focused HIC script subject to the same mobility penalties as the bubble, IMO this would solve at least some of players concerns. Easier fix to this is to make it impossible to fit oversized stuff like propulsion and shield extenders & boosters. So you want to say that the only way to counter long scrams should be cut? How do you suppose then the solo and small scale pilots without scout alt should escape scan res gate camps? See what's fundamentally wrong here is that you're inferring that dying to a prepared group when you are alone is somehow "bad" or "wrong". Ed: I should clarify that this is not just you, the quoted poster, this attitude is rife across this thread. "zomg, that gang of prepared pilots who outnumber me might actually kill me! THE HUMANITY!" Dying in a fight is not a problem. Pvpers die a lot. The problem are the game mechanics that have (almost) no counterplay like this new scramblers on hictors with insane length. Sure the recons have similar abilities but are much expensiver and easier to kill even if you fight solo against a blob(http://kb.serpent.is/battle/r293011/) kill a hictor in this way will be impossible. On top of that such heavy tacklers will make frigs even more obsolete. As i already mentioned im my previous posts - l33t pvpers won't be hurt much by this change, coz they have scouts, links and 100mn ab fits, but new players without all of this gonna feel pain, a lot of pain. you lost a battlecruiser to a gang and managed to take out a cruiser. doesn't show anything other than the fact that Lachesis got lazy or cocky just wait till Missile disruptors are in game and you wouldnt of been able to hit anything there.

Colt Blackhawk bad InTentiOnZ senseless intentions 317	Posted - 2015.11.06 15:25:29 - [201] - Quote Like the changes. Just short reminder: Has CCP considered that the field generator that shuts down MJD and MWD will completely ban cloaky haulers like Prowler or Crane out of null? [09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f**** amarr flag and s* on their smoking wrecks.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2383	Posted - 2015.11.06 15:26:52 - [202] - Quote Colt Blackhawk wrote: Like the changes. Just short reminder: Has CCP considered that the field generator that shuts down MJD and MWD will completely ban cloaky haulers like Prowler or Crane out of null? What?
Lloyd Roses Artificial Memories 1314	Posted - 2015.11.06 15:27:49 - [203] - Quote Colt Blackhawk wrote: Like the changes. Just short reminder: Has CCP considered that the field generator that shuts down MJD and MWD will completely ban cloaky haulers like Prowler or Crane out of null? Only scripted WDFGs shut down MJDs. No lock, no scramble ;)
Tappits North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion 196	Posted - 2015.11.06 15:41:51 - [204] - Quote This change totally kills Transport ships as all of its tricks are countered with a single high slot mod. No MWDing back to gate, No MJDing away, + the 2 inbuilt WCS's are neuted by the infi point. = totally useless In low and in null.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2383	Posted - 2015.11.06 15:43:07 - [205] - Quote Tappits wrote: This change totally kills Transport ships as all of its tricks are countered with a single high slot mod. No MWDing back to gate, No MJDing away, + the 2 inbuilt WCS's are neuted by the infi point. = totally useless In low and in null. I think you'll find the cloak and MWD will still work just fine, unless the camp is fully supported. Or enjoy the bog standard blockade runner and just wap off cloaked.
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1911	Posted - 2015.11.06 16:06:44 - [206] - Quote Tappits wrote: This change totally kills Transport ships as all of its tricks are countered with a single high slot mod. No MWDing back to gate, No MJDing away, + the 2 inbuilt WCS's are neuted by the infi point. = totally useless In low and in null. I think you will find that a tank, an afterburner, and an MJD make a lot more sense for a transport ship than an MWD and an MJD. With the latter, both your escape modules can be negated with a scram. If the camp would not have killed you anyway, overheating tank and afterburner can get you out of a bubble or back to the gate far more reliably than an MWD. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Challus Mercer Sacred Temple The Gorgon Empire 22	Posted - 2015.11.06 16:39:52 - [207] - Quote Lady Rift wrote: Challus Mercer wrote: afkalt wrote: Challus Mercer wrote: Aiyshimin wrote: Easier fix to this is to make it impossible to fit oversized stuff like propulsion and shield extenders & boosters. So you want to say that the only way to counter long scrams should be cut? How do you suppose then the solo and small scale pilots without scout alt should escape scan res gate camps? See what's fundamentally wrong here is that you're inferring that dying to a prepared group when you are alone is somehow "bad" or "wrong". Ed: I should clarify that this is not just you, the quoted poster, this attitude is rife across this thread. "zomg, that gang of prepared pilots who outnumber me might actually kill me! THE HUMANITY!" Dying in a fight is not a problem. Pvpers die a lot. The problem are the game mechanics that have (almost) no counterplay like this new scramblers on hictors with insane length. Sure the recons have similar abilities but are much expensiver and easier to kill even if you fight solo against a blob(http://kb.serpent.is/battle/r293011/) kill a hictor in this way will be impossible. On top of that such heavy tacklers will make frigs even more obsolete. As i already mentioned im my previous posts - l33t pvpers won't be hurt much by this change, coz they have scouts, links and 100mn ab fits, but new players without all of this gonna feel pain, a lot of pain. you lost a battlecruiser to a gang and managed to take out a cruiser. doesn't show anything other than the fact that Lachesis got lazy or cocky just wait till Missile disruptors are in game and you wouldnt of been able to hit anything there. That's true, BC's and BS's are really bad in this meta but with enough skill you can do at least kills like this. I see no logic in needing them even more by introducing long scrams so that no one can use any mjd's anymore. Don't see bow it improves our gameplay.
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 624	Posted - 2015.11.06 17:19:15 - [208] - Quote True solo player here (no alts, links, etc). This MAY not be a huge change, as arazu/lach have similar scram range when linked. The issue i have is that if you get scrammed by a recon, in most cases its not going to have a 150k+ EHP tank. There is no way to escape as you arent going to kill the HIC before his falcon and 15man gang show up. As i fly mainly BCs and BS this will be a significant nerf against the only module that makes these ships viable. The MJD. I find it comical that people are saying kiters/soloers dont commit. Yet when i bring a brawler i get kited by a swarm of inties just to wait for the t3s to show up. Door swings both ways. The MJD was my tool to get these kitey gangs to COMMIT against me. Now every gang in null is going to have one of these HICs on standby. Making sure these GANGS dont have to commit to a SOLO roamer. Roaming gates is also going to be very difficult. As i used to have a 75% chance to dodge a gate camp by activating MJD immediately on uncloak. But instapoint 150k EHP HIC is going to stop that. A BC sure as hell doesnt have the speed/mobility to get back to gate in time before your scrammed and double web. As mentioned by others, there is no counterplay short of cramming oversized ABs. So if someone can show me how to fit MJD, 100mn AB, neuts and 720 arty on my fleet cane, id sure appreciate it. Anyone who thinks that gate campers arent going to uses these every. Single. Time. Are delusional. Maybe if HIC is using this script he gets a speed reduction so you have a CHANCE to coast out of range? Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
Ele Rebellion Dead Star Syndicate 54	Posted - 2015.11.06 17:36:56 - [209] - Quote How much LP will the faction ones cost?
Skir Skor Stay Frosty. A Band Apart. 23	Posted - 2015.11.06 17:43:54 - [210] - Quote Scraming out to 30KM is completely ******** and will end up a broken mechanic, yet I found myself buying the Gravitational Physics and HIC skill books.

Mugen Rekisu Aideron Robotics 0	Posted - 2015.11.06 17:47:16 - [211] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Hi M8s! A: Meta modules will drop from NPCs like current meta modules. The Faction modules will drop & be in LP stores like current Sansha and CONCORD modules. Does this mean we get appropriate rats? I personally would love to see a True Sansha HIC suddenly bubble a roaming gang, or drag an entire incoming fleet off gate.
Tikktokk Tokkzikk Alekhine's Gun Decayed Orbit 286	Posted - 2015.11.06 20:12:39 - [212] - Quote As a risk averse kiter, I approve of this nerf to kiting. I'm also happy to see a use for HICs outside cap killing. +2
Aiyshimin Fistful of Finns Paisti Syndicate 581	Posted - 2015.11.06 20:14:38 - [213] - Quote Stitch Kaneland wrote: Maybe if HIC is using this script he gets a speed reduction so you have a CHANCE to coast out of range? Giving the script same drawbacks as the bubble would be pretty good. Very long range scram on a barely mobile ship sounds balanced.
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1911	Posted - 2015.11.06 20:38:15 - [214] - Quote Stitch Kaneland wrote: True solo player here (no alts, links, etc). This MAY not be a huge change, as arazu/lach have similar scram range when linked. The issue i have is that if you get scrammed by a recon, in most cases its not going to have a 150k+ EHP tank. There is no way to escape as you arent going to kill the HIC before his falcon and 15man gang show up. As i fly mainly BCs and BS this will be a significant nerf against the only module that makes these ships viable. The MJD. I find it comical that people are saying kiters/soloers dont commit. Yet when i bring a brawler i get kited by a swarm of inties just to wait for the t3s to show up. Door swings both ways. The MJD was my tool to get these kitey gangs to COMMIT against me. Now every gang in null is going to have one of these HICs on standby. Making sure these GANGS dont have to commit to a SOLO roamer. Roaming gates is also going to be very difficult. As i used to have a 75% chance to dodge a gate camp by activating MJD immediately on uncloak. But instapoint 150k EHP HIC is going to stop that. A BC sure as hell doesnt have the speed/mobility to get back to gate in time before your scrammed and double web. As mentioned by others, there is no counterplay short of cramming oversized ABs. So if someone can show me how to fit MJD, 100mn AB, neuts and 720 arty on my fleet cane, id sure appreciate it. Anyone who thinks that gate campers arent going to uses these every. Single. Time. Are delusional. Maybe if HIC is using this script he gets a speed reduction so you have a CHANCE to coast out of range? Stitch, I respect you for playing Eve truly solo, but that is not how the game is designed or balanced. I'm not going to weep for you if you roll through Vale solo in your Fleet Issue Hurricane. I'm going to use whatever I can to kill you. At the end of the day, it won't matter if I have a Lachesis and a Scimitar or a Broadsword and a Scimitar or or an Onyx and a Curse or whatever my friends bring... At the end of the day, you will be dead. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 303	Posted - 2015.11.06 20:44:04 - [215] - Quote With this change HICs are going to become an essential part of any gang, and will also be great solo fighters. Personally I think that the base stats on the HICs will need to be toned down; or as some of the others have mentioned perhaps some drawback when using the script. Having this range on a scram on a powerful hull such as the HIC will be incredibly powerful. And on top you get the option to deploy a bubble. Why would you chose to roam in anything else with a ship this powerful... HACs will be sidelined without a doubt, and this will be another nerf in the overall meta to battlecruisers. Yes this script definitely needs to apply some drawbacks to the velocity of the HIC. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1242	Posted - 2015.11.06 21:30:25 - [216] - Quote definitely limit the WDFG's too 1 per ship like interdictors have T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely. ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 627	Posted - 2015.11.06 21:33:22 - [217] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: Stitch Kaneland wrote: True solo player here (no alts, links, etc). This MAY not be a huge change, as arazu/lach have similar scram range when linked. The issue i have is that if you get scrammed by a recon, in most cases its not going to have a 150k+ EHP tank. There is no way to escape as you arent going to kill the HIC before his falcon and 15man gang show up. As i fly mainly BCs and BS this will be a significant nerf against the only module that makes these ships viable. The MJD. I find it comical that people are saying kiters/soloers dont commit. Yet when i bring a brawler i get kited by a swarm of inties just to wait for the t3s to show up. Door swings both ways. The MJD was my tool to get these kitey gangs to COMMIT against me. Now every gang in null is going to have one of these HICs on standby. Making sure these GANGS dont have to commit to a SOLO roamer. Roaming gates is also going to be very difficult. As i used to have a 75% chance to dodge a gate camp by activating MJD immediately on uncloak. But instapoint 150k EHP HIC is going to stop that. A BC sure as hell doesnt have the speed/mobility to get back to gate in time before your scrammed and double web. As mentioned by others, there is no counterplay short of cramming oversized ABs. So if someone can show me how to fit MJD, 100mn AB, neuts and 720 arty on my fleet cane, id sure appreciate it. Anyone who thinks that gate campers arent going to uses these every. Single. Time. Are delusional. Maybe if HIC is using this script he gets a speed reduction so you have a CHANCE to coast out of range? Stitch, I respect you for playing Eve truly solo, but that is not how the game is designed or balanced. I'm not going to weep for you if you roll through Vale solo in your Fleet Issue Hurricane. I'm going to use whatever I can to kill you. At the end of the day, it won't matter if I have a Lachesis and a Scimitar or a Broadsword and a Scimitar or or an Onyx and a Curse or whatever my friends bring... At the end of the day, you will be dead. Yes but being able to evade the initial camp leads to funner things for both parties, as you have experienced already Your broadsword was setup to lock me quickly with an infinite point, i MJD'd away from you, the VNI and that falcon that saved the VNIs bacon. I then drew your gang into another system and baited you, and you baited me. We actually played the game and we both had fun and lost ships. If your HIC had the infinite scram it would have been over the moment i popped up in local. Its not a fun mechanic and isnt really exciting IMO i suppose. Im a bit confused by this mechanic as couldnt you use a linked arazu/lach for the same effect? Except in those cases i would have a chance at killing the recon. Not a 150-200k EHP brick tanked HIC. I understand the game isnt only about solo play, but it is a play style others enjoy as well as myself. But making a one size scrams all isnt a good mechanic. There is no counterplay. I have no hope to break a HIC as opposed to breaking a recon. Again i see no reason why your gate camps couldnt use a recon instead of a no way to kill HIC instead of a recon. What is the purpose of giving HICs this ability that a recon couldnt already do? That is my issue. That being said, i'll adapt as usual. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2386	Posted - 2015.11.06 22:20:16 - [218] - Quote Stitch Kaneland wrote: FT Diomedes wrote: Stitch Kaneland wrote: True solo player here (no alts, links, etc). This MAY not be a huge change, as arazu/lach have similar scram range when linked. The issue i have is that if you get scrammed by a recon, in most cases its not going to have a 150k+ EHP tank. There is no way to escape as you arent going to kill the HIC before his falcon and 15man gang show up. As i fly mainly BCs and BS this will be a significant nerf against the only module that makes these ships viable. The MJD. I find it comical that people are saying kiters/soloers dont commit. Yet when i bring a brawler i get kited by a swarm of inties just to wait for the t3s to show up. Door swings both ways. The MJD was my tool to get these kitey gangs to COMMIT against me. Now every gang in null is going to have one of these HICs on standby. Making sure these GANGS dont have to commit to a SOLO roamer. Roaming gates is also going to be very difficult. As i used to have a 75% chance to dodge a gate camp by activating MJD immediately on uncloak. But instapoint 150k EHP HIC is going to stop that. A BC sure as hell doesnt have the speed/mobility to get back to gate in time before your scrammed and double web. As mentioned by others, there is no counterplay short of cramming oversized ABs. So if someone can show me how to fit MJD, 100mn AB, neuts and 720 arty on my fleet cane, id sure appreciate it. Anyone who thinks that gate campers arent going to uses these every. Single. Time. Are delusional. Maybe if HIC is using this script he gets a speed reduction so you have a CHANCE to coast out of range? Stitch, I respect you for playing Eve truly solo, but that is not how the game is designed or balanced. I'm not going to weep for you if you roll through Vale solo in your Fleet Issue Hurricane. I'm going to use whatever I can to kill you. At the end of the day, it won't matter if I have a Lachesis and a Scimitar or a Broadsword and a Scimitar or or an Onyx and a Curse or whatever my friends bring... At the end of the day, you will be dead. Yes but being able to evade the initial camp leads to funner things for both parties, as you have experienced already Your broadsword was setup to lock me quickly with an infinite point, i MJD'd away from you, the VNI and that falcon that saved the VNIs bacon. I then drew your gang into another system and baited you, and you baited me. We actually played the game and we both had fun and lost ships. If your HIC had the infinite scram it would have been over the moment i popped up in local. Its not a fun mechanic and isnt really exciting IMO i suppose. Im a bit confused by this mechanic as couldnt you use a linked arazu/lach for the same effect? Except in those cases i would have a chance at killing the recon. Not a 150-200k EHP brick tanked HIC. I understand the game isnt only about solo play, but it is a play style others enjoy as well as myself. But making a one size scrams all isnt a good mechanic. There is no counterplay. I have no hope to break a HIC as opposed to breaking a recon. Again i see no reason why your gate camps couldnt use a recon instead of a no way to kill HIC instead of a recon. What is the purpose of giving HICs this ability that a recon couldnt already do? That is my issue. That being said, i'll adapt as usual. I too respect your view, but my challenge is this: Regional gates aside, I don't see a /material/ difference in camps with this, or with the galleries recon/EAF. People who cared enough use these already (not many), people who did not I don't see much changing. In the lone hic scenario you have time to boat back to gate, in 99% of cases anyway. A true solo fit doesn't have dps to write home about and the EHP isn't insurmountable for an appropriate hull to wail on. I.e. it's a T2 ship and an even class T2 will threaten it, as would a T1 size up. By all means though, post a fit that proves me mistaken, I've been theory crafting HICs a fair bit before this change so I'm pretty aware of their limits. I'd like to have someone one up my fits That being said I've suggested before that they be barred from Rsebos - that seems fair. I'd also not mind a /minor/ scan res reduction?
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1911	Posted - 2015.11.06 22:59:09 - [219] - Quote afkalt wrote: That being said I've suggested before that they be barred from Rsebos - that seems fair. I'd also not mind a /minor/ scan res reduction? I am perfectly okay with not allowing remote sensor boosting on a Heavy Interdictor. Suits me just fine. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 304	Posted - 2015.11.06 23:10:48 - [220] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: afkalt wrote: That being said I've suggested before that they be barred from Rsebos - that seems fair. I'd also not mind a /minor/ scan res reduction? I am perfectly okay with not allowing remote sensor boosting on a Heavy Interdictor. Suits me just fine. I don't see what that would solve. It is battlecruisers and battleships that are going to be shafted further down the pile in the overall meta as a result of this, scan res has little bearing on that. Ideally you would either need to reduce the EHP of the HIC and reduce its velocity so that it is vunrable to BCs and BSs when using the infinite point; or you could make its infinite drain a lot of cap and have a short cycle time so that it is vulnerable to neuts. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading

CyberRaver GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 34	Posted - 2015.11.06 23:21:25 - [221] - Quote people who think they can roam unimpeded through hostile space without a inty scout are the morons here Those who are smart will adapt and not be bothered by this change at all
Trinkets friend Sudden Buggery 2886	Posted - 2015.11.07 01:19:44 - [222] - Quote I think this is overall a good change for HICs. The current meta of HICs runs like this: hisec = gate camping instalock HICs (basically it's just marmites, etc) lowsec = gate camping instalock HICs, infinipoint HICs for capturing supers with logon traps nullsec = bubble HICs occasionally (but rarely), infinipoint HICs occasionally wormhole = camping hisec holes in solo HICs, occasional ganking with bubbles, bubble interdiction in fleet fights For hisec, the ability to turn off MWDs and MJDs will adversely empower the instalock HICs to capture the only ships capable of escaping them at the moment (MJD fit DST's). Overall, not too bad; the DST could have also been caught by a 3-point scram fit Keres or similar. So a few more people will lose DST's. The ability to turn off MWD's at 25km isn't too OP considering the presence of Garmurs, Keres, and the new Navy maulus coming. For lowsec, the ability for a HIC to fit a 25km scram is actually going to see utilisation possibilities increase quite a lot. HICs will become good for tackling kiters, especially considering they will be very tough to kill. I'd expect to see utilisation rates increase markedly. For nullsec, too, the ability of HICs to deal with MWDing foes will broaden their appeal. Right now they are too slow to be effective long-point ships, and can't stop MJDs with their bubble. This restricts them, really, to gate camping interdiction, which is fine but a lot of foes still MWD and MJD away. Infinipoint scramming will at least allow dual-bubble fits to stop a gang and keep one of them on field. Unlike other long-scram tackle, the tank of HICs will become valuable, unlike a navy maulus or Garmur. For wormholes, the HIC will become very useful for stopping rolling BS which can often MJD off a hole. The 25km scram is also going to be quite useful for frig hole HICs, especially the Onyx in C13's, which will be able to bubble up through a hole and then have an effective tackle option. Five stars, would tiercide again! Doctor Prince Field Marshall of Prolapse. Alliance and Grand Sasquatch of Bob We take Batphones. Contact us at Hola Batmanuel - Free call 1800-UR-MOMMA ~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 304	Posted - 2015.11.07 01:41:44 - [223] - Quote Trinkets friend wrote: The ability to turn off MWD's at 25km isn't too OP Its a shame you based your whole reasoning on the scram range being 25km when in fact it will actually reach up to 39.4km with the faction and 37.5km with the T2. This is further than BS neut range which is effectively the only counter for most battleships. I agree 25km would have been reasonable. But with the currently suggested ranges I would give them a velocity penalty at the very least, and perhaps a EHP nerf across the board. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 304	Posted - 2015.11.07 01:44:51 - [224] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Suitonia wrote: A separate script that has reduced range (Maybe 40% of normal) would probably make this a bit more balanced. 37.5km Scrams on T2 HIC is incredibly powerful, and actually stronger than best faction linked heating Lachesis, obviously HICs can't get reps like a Lach can but they still have huge buffers and they will be incredibly problematic for small gangs, especially those without links. Yeah we've got this in our back pocket. We want to see how this works out, and if its too OP we'll introduce a new scrambling script with a shorter range. You definitely need to do this Larrikin. Glad to see you are thinking along the right lines already, but honestly this needs to be introduced before it even reaches tranquillity. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1912	Posted - 2015.11.07 03:59:11 - [225] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: FT Diomedes wrote: afkalt wrote: That being said I've suggested before that they be barred from Rsebos - that seems fair. I'd also not mind a /minor/ scan res reduction? I am perfectly okay with not allowing remote sensor boosting on a Heavy Interdictor. Suits me just fine. I don't see what that would solve. It is battlecruisers and battleships that are going to be shafted further down the pile in the overall meta as a result of this, scan res has little bearing on that. Ideally you would either need to reduce the EHP of the HIC and reduce its velocity so that it is vunrable to BCs and BSs when using the infinite point; or you could make its infinite drain a lot of cap and have a short cycle time so that it is vulnerable to neuts. Then you neuter it for it's anti-capital purposes. The HIC's primary job is to effectively tackle Capital and Supercapital ships. Everything else is secondary to that. I'll say it again, I do not care if bringing a HIC makes a "solo" roamer's life a little bit shorter and harder. We do not balance Eve so that "solo" roamers have an easier time. Nor do I care if it makes a gate camp more effective. If someone runs an effective gate camp, then it is on another party to bait them or trap them and kill them. Not to go whine on the forums about it. HIC's are relatively large, clumsy ships - when you fit them to be the 150K EHP bricks about which some people are complaining. They cannot be repaired while they are doing their primary job. They live and die off their capacitor boosters. They have enough weaknesses not to become totally overwhelming, but they just gained some new power as a side effect of CCP's decision to add 5000mn MWD's. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Chainsaw Plankton Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 1993	Posted - 2015.11.07 05:50:09 - [226] - Quote man it is interesting reading everyone's point of view on this one (half the fun is some people just have no clue) A few things I would like to note 1. With the script the cycle time on a WDFG is 6 seconds, not too hard to drop cycle and catch reps. 2. The script removes most of the drawbacks on the WDFG, however due to the short cycle time the cap/s use goes up 3. in many cases the hic will only have to put a scripted point on target for a short period while other ships put conventional scrams or webs on. 4. hic points would be outside arazu/lach heated linked scram range 5. a Hic can fit multiple WDFG and have one a bubble and one scripted, or you know, just switch scripts as needed. Fun fact: broadsword has a falloff bonus, with 425s and barrage it is doing 23.8% dps at proposed hic point range. Granted that is with no mods that boost falloff, as I mostly threw guns onto a setup I had laying around in eft as the setup didn't care about dps/range too much. I think my biggest question is what roles do frigates and destroyers play with 37.5km scrams being common on cruisers? Most frigs/destroyers are set up to operate inside 10km, heck 30km is a t2 long point with the interceptor bonus. Frigs rely a lot on speed to tank stuff, and taking away that speed especially at range where slower tracking bigger ships can have a good chance to hit, or missiles that don't get mitigated as much. a lot of what makes micro gangs successful is that they have ceptor pilots that can get in scram range to tackle opponents. allowing for other members of the gang to get good hits, and also using ewar (usually damps) to counter things like snipers, logi, or recons. typical gangs have a keres which can get overwhelmed pretty easily. when we talk about not committing to a fight, Fighting out numbered, using your gang comp to the fullest, and constantly out piloting your opponent is different from lol pimp linked + snaked garmur orbiting at 60km till their target gets bored and hits self destruct. CyberRaver wrote: people who think they can roam unimpeded through hostile space without a inty scout are the morons here Those who are smart will adapt and not be bothered by this change at all being impeded is content I always thought people should defend their space and whatnot, but some of that involves having good tools to do so, and of course a motivation to. overall it very well might be an interesting change that turns new eden into a slugfest where it is always hot drop o'clock. maybe it would be awesome for the game. at the very least probably worth play testing on sisi. maybe even let it go live for a patch or two. See what happens, and bring in the range a bit if needed. @ChainsawPlankto
Anthar Thebess 1372	Posted - 2015.11.07 06:59:00 - [227] - Quote Have any one thought that this scram range is intentional. We will have capital sized MWD , and dreads moving almost 1200m/s Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 2674	Posted - 2015.11.07 07:26:08 - [228] - Quote Chainsaw Plankton wrote: I think my biggest question is what roles do frigates and destroyers play with 37.5km scrams being common on cruisers? If you think HIC's are going to be common even with this change, you are quite delusional. HIC's are a highly specialised ship and will continue to be rare even after this change. Can I fly one? Yes, because I can fly anything subcap that is in the combat line (missing a couple of industrial T2's) Can most people fly a HIC? No. Will most people train to fly a HIC? Also no.
King Fu Hostile Fistful of Finns Paisti Syndicate 329	Posted - 2015.11.07 08:51:34 - [229] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Chainsaw Plankton wrote: I think my biggest question is what roles do frigates and destroyers play with 37.5km scrams being common on cruisers? If you think HIC's are going to be common even with this change, you are quite delusional. HIC's are a highly specialised ship and will continue to be rare even after this change. Can I fly one? Yes, because I can fly anything subcap that is in the combat line (missing a couple of industrial T2's) Can most people fly a HIC? No. Will most people train to fly a HIC? Also no. This hic point isnt even on the same danger scale as RLML for frigates.
Tappits North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion 196	Posted - 2015.11.07 11:09:03 - [230] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: If you think HIC's are going to be common even with this change, you are quite delusional. Can most people fly a HIC? No. Will most people train to fly a HIC? Also no. PL checking in 0/

Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 305	Posted - 2015.11.07 12:09:32 - [231] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Chainsaw Plankton wrote: I think my biggest question is what roles do frigates and destroyers play with 37.5km scrams being common on cruisers? If you think HIC's are going to be common even with this change, you are quite delusional. HIC's are a highly specialised ship and will continue to be rare even after this change. Can I fly one? Yes, because I can fly anything subcap that is in the combat line (missing a couple of industrial T2's) Can most people fly a HIC? No. Will most people train to fly a HIC? Also no. People will train to what is flavour of the month. Plus do you not think most people can already fly or almost fly a HIC, the extra training will be trivial. You really don't understand much if you can't see that HICs under this change will completely dominate the meta for small and medium gangs. It is glaringly obvious. FT Diomedes wrote: Then you neuter it for it's anti-capital purposes. The HIC's primary job is to effectively tackle Capital and Supercapital ships. Everything else is secondary to that. I'll say it again, I do not care if bringing a HIC makes a "solo" roamer's life a little bit shorter and harder. We do not balance Eve so that "solo" roamers have an easier time. Nor do I care if it makes a gate camp more effective. If someone runs an effective gate camp, then it is on another party to bait them or trap them and kill them. Not to go whine on the forums about it. HIC's are relatively large, clumsy ships - when you fit them to be the 150K EHP bricks about which some people are complaining. They cannot be repaired while they are doing their primary job. They live and die off their capacitor boosters. They have enough weaknesses not to become totally overwhelming, but they just gained some new power as a side effect of CCP's decision to add 5000mn MWD's. You keep claiming that you don't care if this kills solo roamers, although it will also have massive implications for small and medium gangs. Like I said above the ships that it will affect the most will be BSs and BCs, you will be able to kite and kill them with impunity with a 37.5km scram. I'm not too bothered about frigates, but BSs and BCs really don't need this nerf in the overall meta. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1912	Posted - 2015.11.07 12:41:26 - [232] - Quote Please post your "God-mode" roaming HIC fit. Then fly it and see what happens when it meets a prepared defender. Unless you avoid fitting it like a brick, you will find it arrives late to the party and is easy to catch. HIC's are great ships. I sold all my HAC's a while ago and replaced them with HIC's for home defense purposes. I do not take them roaming, however, because without rigging for warp speed and agility, it is just painful to fly (more like a BC than a Cruiser). And, if you have to run away from more numerous defenders, you will get caught and dos. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
DekTo2 Aquilia Cohors Praetoria Curatores Veritatis Alliance 19	Posted - 2015.11.07 12:44:38 - [233] - Quote Terrible changes. Any newbies without flight skiills can kill you with that scram range just siting on gate, impossible to burnout from gate or burn in gate. If HIC warp on wreck or spot in 30km from you - you die, if HIC on gate - you die. Thats changes kill small gang and solo fights and boost ****** gatecamps. Want easy kills? Learn HICs! May be HICs need "kill all" button?
Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 306	Posted - 2015.11.07 13:01:22 - [234] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: Please post your "God-mode" roaming HIC fit. Then fly it and see what happens when it meets a prepared defender. Unless you avoid fitting it like a brick, you will find it arrives late to the party and is easy to catch. HIC's are great ships. I sold all my HAC's a while ago and replaced them with HIC's for home defense purposes. I do not take them roaming, however, because without rigging for warp speed and agility, it is just painful to fly (more like a BC than a Cruiser). And, if you have to run away from more numerous defenders, you will get caught and dos. I don't have many fitting for HICs, and so I just ran this one up in a minute. But it is glaringly obvious it will be overpowered even with a fit which I mocked up in a minute. [Broadsword, Broadsword (PvP)] Damage Control II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800 50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive 425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M 425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M 425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M 425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M 425mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M Warp Disruption Field Generator II, Focused Warp Disruption Script Medium Core Defense Field Extender II Medium Core Defense Field Extender II Cap Stable 2440 m/s Velocity 419 DPS @ 3km optimal + 27km falloff 587 DPS @ 1.2km optimal + 15km falloff 108,277 EHP with 267 Passive Regen 37.5km Scram! Yes, it is pretty obvious even from my rushed fitting that these will be FOTM. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1913	Posted - 2015.11.07 13:55:58 - [235] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: FT Diomedes wrote: Please post your "God-mode" roaming HIC fit. Then fly it and see what happens when it meets a prepared defender. Unless you avoid fitting it like a brick, you will find it arrives late to the party and is easy to catch. HIC's are great ships. I sold all my HAC's a while ago and replaced them with HIC's for home defense purposes. I do not take them roaming, however, because without rigging for warp speed and agility, it is just painful to fly (more like a BC than a Cruiser). And, if you have to run away from more numerous defenders, you will get caught and die. I don't have many fitting for HICs, and so I just ran this one up in a minute. But it is glaringly obvious it will be overpowered even with a fit which I mocked up in a minute. Fit. Actually go fly that ship. See how quickly it gets into warp. See how it handles in a fight. Feel free to bring that brick on a roam. Any competent defender will catch it and kill it. All that EHP does not mean much once you are caught by the blob. That's why people do not roam in Battleships or Battlecruisers very often. That's why people roam in fast-as-**** kiting setups. So the blob cannot catch them. So they do not have to commit to a fight. When I see "Broadsword" reported in the intel channel, I am not going to think "OMG, I do not want to fight that!" I am going to get in my own HIC, grab a few friends in Battlecruisers and Battleships and come kill you. The next time, you will bring the standard Phantasm, Orthrus, OGB Tengu, Malediction, etc... CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 307	Posted - 2015.11.07 14:09:53 - [236] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: Moac Tor wrote: FT Diomedes wrote: Please post your "God-mode" roaming HIC fit. Then fly it and see what happens when it meets a prepared defender. Unless you avoid fitting it like a brick, you will find it arrives late to the party and is easy to catch. HIC's are great ships. I sold all my HAC's a while ago and replaced them with HIC's for home defense purposes. I do not take them roaming, however, because without rigging for warp speed and agility, it is just painful to fly (more like a BC than a Cruiser). And, if you have to run away from more numerous defenders, you will get caught and die. I don't have many fitting for HICs, and so I just ran this one up in a minute. But it is glaringly obvious it will be overpowered even with a fit which I mocked up in a minute. Fit. Actually go fly that ship. See how quickly it gets into warp. See how it handles in a fight. Feel free to bring that brick on a roam. Any competent defender will catch it and kill it. All that EHP does not mean much once you are caught by the blob. That's why people do not roam in Battleships or Battlecruisers very often. That's why people roam in fast-as-** kiting setups. So the blob cannot catch them. So they do not have to commit to a fight. When I see "Broadsword" reported in the intel channel, I am not going to think "OMG, I do not want to fight that!" I am going to get in my own HIC, grab a few friends in Battlecruisers and Battleships and come kill you. The next time, you will bring the standard Phantasm, Orthrus, OGB Tengu, Malediction, etc... The align time is 6.5s so pretty average for a cruiser hull and a LOT less than a BC. I fly PvP battleships and battlecruisers in solo and small gang settings all the time and so I have a very good idea of what I am talking about. "All that EHP does not mean much once you are caught by the blob." Of course your going to die to a blob, that is irrelevant. I am talking about balancing these ships in a 1v1 or small to medium gang setting. Something which it sounds as though you do not have much experience with. The fact is the fitting I posted will align and move faster than most cruisers, and has the EHP of a battleship, and has a 37.5km scram on top. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading**
Trinkets friend Sudden Buggery 2891	Posted - 2015.11.07 14:23:10 - [237] - Quote Moac Tor, That fit...the DPS numbers you quoted at extreme range are 10% of the optimal. So at 37km your Broadsword does 50 / 60 DPS. It's still a tackle ship. It is, as FT Diomedes says, still a fat, sludgy brick. i've got a guy in corp who flies HICs exclusively (because he's slow as a bucket of mud and cant handle all that fancy flyin'), and he continually gets out of position with his HIC. Granted, it will help to have God Mode scram, but HICs run out of cap really, really quickly. There is also a great disadvantage to quoting T2 module figures: few people have T2 bubbles. I have 155M Sp's and I haven't spent a month. I might soon, but not this side of the Capital rebalance. Most HIC pilots will make do with the T1 or meta level WDFG's. In fact, the Pitfall WDFG is looking more impressive due to the lower velocity penalty. That's a significant thing there. Consider if your double-bubble HIC has a bubble and a script. It can't overhaul the thing it just turned the scram off of, with its bubble up. Doctor Prince Field Marshall of Prolapse. Alliance and Grand Sasquatch of Bob We take Batphones. Contact us at Hola Batmanuel - Free call 1800-UR-MOMMA ~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Challus Mercer Sacred Temple The Gorgon Empire 22	Posted - 2015.11.07 14:27:54 - [238] - Quote Anthar Thebess wrote: Have any one thought that this scram range is intentional. We will have capital sized MWD , and dreads moving almost 1200m/s So to balance the capital meta we need to breake the small scale meta? Excellent plan!
Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 307	Posted - 2015.11.07 15:05:46 - [239] - Quote Trinkets friend wrote: Moac Tor, That fit...the DPS numbers you quoted at extreme range are 10% of the optimal. So at 37km your Broadsword does 50 / 60 DPS. It's still a tackle ship. It is, as FT Diomedes says, still a fat, sludgy brick. I could have gone for an artillery broadsword, although due to the state of artillery I figured it is generally a pretty terrible choice. Although that is a minmatar specific problem. So you are correct the fit that I linked would be needing to operate at around 20km although would have loads of extra room to play with if it needs. You can achieve a very similar result with the Onyx though; [Onyx, Onyx PvP] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 25 50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile Warp Disruption Field Generator II, Focused Warp Disruption Script Medium Core Defense Field Extender II Medium Core Defense Field Extender II That would give you 582dps @ 30.4 km, or you could fit javelin ammo or use rapid lights or HMLs and hit way beyond that. The rest of the stats are very similar to the Broadsword. Also I don't understand why you think these will be a "fat, sludgy brick.". They are comparable to any other cruiser. I'd use that description for a a battleship or BC but definitely not a HIC (particularly the shield tanked ones). It will be more like an 'agile fast brick'. And you have to bare in mind that these will stop you from activating a MWD at 37.5km which means they will generally have the range control in almost all encounters. If these are as powerful as they seem then people will soon be skilled up to level 5 to fly them, and so I wouldn't consider that a balancing factor, and would certainly not be good to balance so heavily on SP from a game design perspective. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2387	Posted - 2015.11.07 15:58:53 - [240] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: Trinkets friend wrote: Moac Tor, That fit...the DPS numbers you quoted at extreme range are 10% of the optimal. So at 37km your Broadsword does 50 / 60 DPS. It's still a tackle ship. It is, as FT Diomedes says, still a fat, sludgy brick. I could have gone for an artillery broadsword, although due to the state of artillery I figured it is generally a pretty terrible choice. Although that is a minmatar specific problem. So you are correct the fit that I linked would be needing to operate at around 20km although would have loads of extra room to play with if it needs. You can achieve a very similar result with the Onyx though; [Onyx, Onyx PvP] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 25 50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile Warp Disruption Field Generator II, Focused Warp Disruption Script Medium Core Defense Field Extender II Medium Core Defense Field Extender II That would give you 582dps @ 30.4 km, or you could fit javelin ammo or use rapid lights or HMLs and hit way beyond that. The rest of the stats are very similar to the Broadsword. Also I don't understand why you think these will be a "fat, sludgy brick.". They are comparable to any other cruiser. I'd use that description for a a battleship or BC but definitely not a HIC (particularly the shield tanked ones). It will be more like an 'agile fast brick'. And you have to bare in mind that these will stop you from activating a MWD at 37.5km which means they will generally have the range control in almost all encounters. If these are as powerful as they seem then people will soon be skilled up to level 5 to fly them, and so I wouldn't consider that a balancing factor, and would certainly not be good to balance so heavily on SP from a game design perspective. (Also I don't usually claim that stuff broken. The last two times I did flag up issues was when Rise announced the Garmur and during the Ishtar and drone dominance meta, on both of which I was right and I remember similar arguments being used by people arguing that the garmur would be fine. I wouldn't be flagging this one up either unless it was obviously horribly broken) Onyx moves like a crippled slug. What's that, 1500ms or something? My BS are faster. You're also going to want a painter so lose some tank.

Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1242	Posted - 2015.11.07 16:09:09 - [241] - Quote why would you use HAM's on an onyx when you can use 47.5km RLML's at 511 dps and actually get that full dps? begs the question why it has range bonuses too light missiles at all really RLML's are OP they should just convert it into a medium assault launcher better tracking and range but less dps than HAM's buff HAM damage nerf its range so its not the same as torps and is actual brawl/tackle range based as its tracking implies. Then lasers get their role back as the best range weapon system, would like too see conflag and scorch range being toned down a bit and improve the T1/faction ammo so there is less extremes and more useful in between ammo types T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely. ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 307	Posted - 2015.11.07 16:11:44 - [242] - Quote afkalt wrote: Moac Tor wrote: Trinkets friend wrote: Moac Tor, That fit...the DPS numbers you quoted at extreme range are 10% of the optimal. So at 37km your Broadsword does 50 / 60 DPS. It's still a tackle ship. It is, as FT Diomedes says, still a fat, sludgy brick. I could have gone for an artillery broadsword, although due to the state of artillery I figured it is generally a pretty terrible choice. Although that is a minmatar specific problem. So you are correct the fit that I linked would be needing to operate at around 20km although would have loads of extra room to play with if it needs. You can achieve a very similar result with the Onyx though; [Onyx, Onyx PvP] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 25 50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile Warp Disruption Field Generator II, Focused Warp Disruption Script Medium Core Defense Field Extender II Medium Core Defense Field Extender II That would give you 582dps @ 30.4 km, or you could fit javelin ammo or use rapid lights or HMLs and hit way beyond that. The rest of the stats are very similar to the Broadsword. Also I don't understand why you think these will be a "fat, sludgy brick.". They are comparable to any other cruiser. I'd use that description for a a battleship or BC but definitely not a HIC (particularly the shield tanked ones). It will be more like an 'agile fast brick'. And you have to bare in mind that these will stop you from activating a MWD at 37.5km which means they will generally have the range control in almost all encounters. If these are as powerful as they seem then people will soon be skilled up to level 5 to fly them, and so I wouldn't consider that a balancing factor, and would certainly not be good to balance so heavily on SP from a game design perspective. (Also I don't usually claim that stuff broken. The last two times I did flag up issues was when Rise announced the Garmur and during the Ishtar and drone dominance meta, on both of which I was right and I remember similar arguments being used by people arguing that the garmur would be fine. I wouldn't be flagging this one up either unless it was obviously horribly broken) Onyx moves like a crippled slug. What's that, 1500ms or something? My BS are faster. You're also going to want a painter so lose some tank. 1991 m/s OH / 1410 m/s & 7.9 s align The thing you have to remember is that you can use your scram defensively meaning that your going to have range control because you are turning off your opponents MWD @ 37.5 km. It is that fact coupled with the raw EHP and DPS of the HICs which are the game breakers. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Colt Blackhawk bad InTentiOnZ senseless intentions 317	Posted - 2015.11.07 16:14:49 - [243] - Quote Funny but somehow no one realizes the really BIG impacts these changes will bring. 1.) 0.0 exploration with frigs will be dead. Covops frigs will die like flies when not being able to burn cloaked back to gate or out of bubble. Gate camps will eat them. Same with asteros. To do 0.0 exploration a nullified cloaky tech3 with at least 3 sec align timewill be mandatory. 2.) Cloaky haulers like Crane, Prowler: See 1.) 3.) Kiting fleets will get BIG issues. Hacs that do not need to sacrifice tank and dps for dualprop fits will benefit. Sacrilege for example. Edit: Tempted to invest some billions ins 0.0 exploration stuffs before they get reaaaaaally rare. [09:04:53] Ashira Twilight > Plant the f**** amarr flag and s* on their smoking wrecks.
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2387	Posted - 2015.11.07 17:28:57 - [244] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: afkalt wrote: Moac Tor wrote: Trinkets friend wrote: Moac Tor, That fit...the DPS numbers you quoted at extreme range are 10% of the optimal. So at 37km your Broadsword does 50 / 60 DPS. It's still a tackle ship. It is, as FT Diomedes says, still a fat, sludgy brick. I could have gone for an artillery broadsword, although due to the state of artillery I figured it is generally a pretty terrible choice. Although that is a minmatar specific problem. So you are correct the fit that I linked would be needing to operate at around 20km although would have loads of extra room to play with if it needs. You can achieve a very similar result with the Onyx though; [Onyx, Onyx PvP] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 25 50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile Warp Disruption Field Generator II, Focused Warp Disruption Script Medium Core Defense Field Extender II Medium Core Defense Field Extender II That would give you 582dps @ 30.4 km, or you could fit javelin ammo or use rapid lights or HMLs and hit way beyond that. The rest of the stats are very similar to the Broadsword. Also I don't understand why you think these will be a "fat, sludgy brick.". They are comparable to any other cruiser. I'd use that description for a a battleship or BC but definitely not a HIC (particularly the shield tanked ones). It will be more like an 'agile fast brick'. And you have to bare in mind that these will stop you from activating a MWD at 37.5km which means they will generally have the range control in almost all encounters. If these are as powerful as they seem then people will soon be skilled up to level 5 to fly them, and so I wouldn't consider that a balancing factor, and would certainly not be good to balance so heavily on SP from a game design perspective. (Also I don't usually claim that stuff broken. The last two times I did flag up issues was when Rise announced the Garmur and during the Ishtar and drone dominance meta, on both of which I was right and I remember similar arguments being used by people arguing that the garmur would be fine. I wouldn't be flagging this one up either unless it was obviously horribly broken) Onyx moves like a crippled slug. What's that, 1500ms or something? My BS are faster. You're also going to want a painter so lose some tank. 1991 m/s OH / 1410 m/s & 7.9 s align (faster than any BS) I routinely roll in battleships both faster and into warp quicker and which can do north of 1200 DPS. Sure, it's a meta changer but it's far from the end of days. It's not going to be HICs online. Colt Blackhawk wrote: Funny but somehow no one realizes the really BIG impacts these changes will bring. 1.) 0.0 exploration with frigs will be dead. Covops frigs will die like flies when not being able to burn cloaked back to gate or out of bubble. Gate camps will eat them. Same with asteros. To do 0.0 exploration a nullified cloaky tech3 with at least 3 sec align timewill be mandatory. 2.) Cloaky haulers like Crane, Prowler: See 1.) 3.) Kiting fleets will get BIG issues. Hacs that do not need to sacrifice tank and dps for dualprop fits will benefit. Sacrilege for example. Edit: Tempted to invest some billions ins 0.0 exploration stuffs before they get reaaaaaally rare. That's because literally nothing changes. Good grief, do you people even understand how the game works and how there's not a SINGLE change for a cloaky frigate who is remotely competent?
Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 307	Posted - 2015.11.07 17:39:49 - [245] - Quote afkalt wrote: I routinely roll in battleships both faster and into warp quicker and which can do north of 1200 DPS. Sure, it's a meta changer but it's far from the end of days. It's not going to be HICs online. Yes it is a meta changer that screws both BSs and BCs, so its not good for the overall meta at all. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Chainsaw Plankton Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 1999	Posted - 2015.11.07 21:02:46 - [246] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Chainsaw Plankton wrote: I think my biggest question is what roles do frigates and destroyers play with 37.5km scrams being common on cruisers? If you think HIC's are going to be common even with this change, you are quite delusional. HIC's are a highly specialised ship and will continue to be rare even after this change. Can I fly one? Yes, because I can fly anything subcap that is in the combat line (missing a couple of industrial T2's) Can most people fly a HIC? No. Will most people train to fly a HIC? Also no. They are t2 cruisers, and require a short train on top of the normal interdictor skills. Nearly everyone in Idle was a hic pilots very shortly after they were released, and that was just for lowsec camping. add in 37.5km scram range and I can't imagine most people not training for them. plus HICs got a decent damage boost to make them closer to Hacs. Out of a HAC fleet I'd guess a bunch of people can do a HIC if needed. afkalt wrote: Onyx moves like a crippled slug. What's that, 1500ms or something? My BS are faster. You're also going to want a painter so lose some tank. not when they are scrammed at 37.5km. and way to criticize the random hic that someone randomly linked. optimization will happen over time, plenty of min/maxers out there. that said there are still plenty of people that just don't seem to pay attention. Also as said by others Hics are pretty slow, at least compared to some things. I doubt they are going to be widely used as solo ships. but they can be nano fit, or long range damage fit, there is some flexibility there. @ChainsawPlankto
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2391	Posted - 2015.11.07 21:40:15 - [247] - Quote Chainsaw Plankton wrote: [ not when they are scrammed at 37.5km. and way to criticize the random hic that someone randomly linked. optimization will happen over time, plenty of min/maxers out there. that said there are still plenty of people that just don't seem to pay attention. Also as said by others Hics are pretty slow, at least compared to some things. I doubt they are going to be widely used as solo ships. but they can be nano fit, or long range damage fit, there is some flexibility there. Well people seem to be suggesting that you're going to have stupid stuff like the hic can do it all at once so yeah, I picked on the fit. "zomg 200k ehp! a million dps! a super scramming bubble that breaks cloaks" It's tiresome so you'll have to forgive me for being grumpy. Point was that an onyx is slower than a a hurricane with an MWD on, which means it's going to have a terrible time catching stuff. These things have weaknesses alright.
Riela Tanal Repercussus Goonswarm Federation 65	Posted - 2015.11.07 22:00:33 - [248] - Quote Are there any plans to allow HICs to be repped while their generators are running?
Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 307	Posted - 2015.11.07 22:12:35 - [249] - Quote afkalt wrote: which means it's going to have a terrible time catching stuff. These things have weaknesses alright. "which means it's going to have a terrible time catching stuff. " Are you serious?.... And they are no where near as slow as a hurricane. Unless you trying to confuse the issue by saying they are as slow as a hurricane which doesn't have a MWD on compared to an Onyx which does, in which case you will find a lot of cruisers are as slow as a hurricane in that scenario. It seems you are just pulling these facts out of thin air. I'd like to know where you are getting this info from as you haven't provided any factual evidence at all. "zomg 200k ehp! a million dps! a super scramming bubble that breaks cloaks" Now your just being stupid, no one has said that. Those of us that have a clue about small gang PvP are just flagging up that this will change the meta and push BCs and BSs into a bad place. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2392	Posted - 2015.11.07 22:18:46 - [250] - Quote A lot of people in the thread are being hyperbolic and dumb. A naked hurricane with a MWD does 1422m/s. The Onyx is 1410 Try it, slap a 50mn cold gas enduring on them both. [Hurricane, mwd] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] 50MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [Onyx, mwd] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] 50MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] But by all means, tell me more about how I'm pulling these facts from thin air..... So now that we've established that a BC is, in fact, faster than the HIC perhaps people can take a deep breath and start to be more rational.

Justin Cody Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens 324	Posted - 2015.11.07 22:23:23 - [251] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: afkalt wrote: Moac Tor wrote: Trinkets friend wrote: Moac Tor, That fit...the DPS numbers you quoted at extreme range are 10% of the optimal. So at 37km your Broadsword does 50 / 60 DPS. It's still a tackle ship. It is, as FT Diomedes says, still a fat, sludgy brick. I could have gone for an artillery broadsword, although due to the state of artillery I figured it is generally a pretty terrible choice. Although that is a minmatar specific problem. So you are correct the fit that I linked would be needing to operate at around 20km although would have loads of extra room to play with if it needs. You can achieve a very similar result with the Onyx though; [Onyx, Onyx PvP] Damage Control II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender Republic Fleet Large Shield Extender Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 25 50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Mjolnir Heavy Assault Missile Warp Disruption Field Generator II, Focused Warp Disruption Script Medium Core Defense Field Extender II Medium Core Defense Field Extender II That would give you 582dps @ 30.4 km, or you could fit javelin ammo or use rapid lights or HMLs and hit way beyond that. The rest of the stats are very similar to the Broadsword. Also I don't understand why you think these will be a "fat, sludgy brick.". They are comparable to any other cruiser. I'd use that description for a a battleship or BC but definitely not a HIC (particularly the shield tanked ones). It will be more like an 'agile fast brick'. And you have to bare in mind that these will stop you from activating a MWD at 37.5km which means they will generally have the range control in almost all encounters. If these are as powerful as they seem then people will soon be skilled up to level 5 to fly them, and so I wouldn't consider that a balancing factor, and would certainly not be good to balance so heavily on SP from a game design perspective. (Also I don't usually claim that stuff broken. The last two times I did flag up issues was when Rise announced the Garmur and during the Ishtar and drone dominance meta, on both of which I was right and I remember similar arguments being used by people arguing that the garmur would be fine. I wouldn't be flagging this one up either unless it was obviously horribly broken) Onyx moves like a crippled slug. What's that, 1500ms or something? My BS are faster. You're also going to want a painter so lose some tank. 1991 m/s OH / 1410 m/s & 7.9 s align (faster than any BS) The thing you have to remember is that you can use your scram defensively meaning that your going to have range control because you are turning off your opponents MWD @ 37.5 km. It is that fact coupled with the raw EHP and DPS of the HICs which are the game breakers. Harvey James wrote: why would you use HAM's on an onyx when you can use 47.5km RLML's at 511 dps and actually get that full dps? Because the reload is bloody annoying and HAMs will still give you enough range. But yes it depends what targets you are hunting, for smaller stuff RLMLs will be a much better choice so you don't have to sacrifice tank for a target painter, for target such as BC and above HAMs are a better choice. Right but the iussue he is complaining about is that light missiles do full damage on everything and you practically need a BC to get full dps out of a HAM launcher - aside from the reload rapid lights are better in every way. You'd need cruisers and above to have a damage reduction vs light missiles to truly offer a choice in small skirmishes. HAM's and Heavies just have terrible application in general.
Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 307	Posted - 2015.11.07 22:36:03 - [252] - Quote afkalt wrote: A lot of people in the thread are being hyperbolic and dumb. A naked hurricane with a MWD does 1422m/s. The Onyx is 1410 Try it, slap a 50mn cold gas enduring on them both. [Hurricane, mwd] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] 50MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [Onyx, mwd] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] [empty low slot] 50MN Cold-Gas Enduring Microwarpdrive [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty med slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] But by all means, tell me more about how I'm pulling these facts from thin air..... So now that we've established that a BC is, in fact, faster than the HIC perhaps people can take a deep breath and start to be more rational. Ok fair enough I just double checked and they are fairly similar. I was thinking pre vanguard hurricanes, the recent buff to agility has obviously put them closer to HICs. That being said BCs and BSs are still going to suffer in the meta with these new super scramming HICs. If one ship has a 37.5km scram and the other one has a 9km scram then the one with 37.5km will dictate the engagement leaving the other ship with practically nothing they can do. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1914	Posted - 2015.11.07 22:40:42 - [253] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: Ok fair enough I just double checked and they are fairly similar. I was thinking pre vanguard hurricanes, the recent buff to agility has obviously put them closer to HICs. That being said BCs and BSs are still going to suffer in the meta with these new super scramming HICs. If one ship has a 37.5km scram and the other one has a 9km scram then the one with 37.5km will dictate the engagement leaving the other ship with practically nothing they can do. Practically nothing a battleship can do at 37.5km to a Heavy Interdictor? Except shoot the living **** out of it. And neut it dry. While still being able to receive remote repairs. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 307	Posted - 2015.11.07 22:45:38 - [254] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: Moac Tor wrote: Ok fair enough I just double checked and they are fairly similar. I was thinking pre vanguard hurricanes, the recent buff to agility has obviously put them closer to HICs. That being said BCs and BSs are still going to suffer in the meta with these new super scramming HICs. If one ship has a 37.5km scram and the other one has a 9km scram then the one with 37.5km will dictate the engagement leaving the other ship with practically nothing they can do. Practically nothing a battleship can do at 37.5km to a Heavy Interdictor? Except shoot the living ** out of it. And neut it dry. While still being able to receive remote repairs. Battleships neuts don't reach that far which is why I suggested reducing the range of the scramming effect to 20km and then you'd be correct. Also a lot of BS will not hit out to 37.5km, and even if they can they won't do enough damage to take down a HIC as they will lose DPS due to falloff. BCs are just completely screwed. Hopefully you are starting to see the problem now. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading**
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 2677	Posted - 2015.11.08 01:38:23 - [255] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: Battleships neuts don't reach that far which is why I suggested reducing the range of the scramming effect to 20km and then you'd be correct. Also a lot of BS will not hit out to 37.5km, and even if they can they won't do enough damage to take down a HIC as they will lose DPS due to falloff. BCs are just completely screwed. Hopefully you are starting to see the problem now. You obviously haven't read the new neut thread that comes in at the same time. BS can neut the HIC dry at that range, it will take a fraction longer and the cap booster will last longer. But they can do it. Battleship weapons also reach out to 37km pretty happily, unless you happen to be flying a Blaster BS I suppose with no range improvements. And BC's get a bonus to their range as well, making most of their weapons reach to at least 37km again unless you are talking the shortest range versions. BS & BC are not going to really be hurt by this. It's as bad an argument as 'think of the newbies'
Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 307	Posted - 2015.11.08 02:01:29 - [256] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Moac Tor wrote: Battleships neuts don't reach that far which is why I suggested reducing the range of the scramming effect to 20km and then you'd be correct. Also a lot of BS will not hit out to 37.5km, and even if they can they won't do enough damage to take down a HIC as they will lose DPS due to falloff. BCs are just completely screwed. Hopefully you are starting to see the problem now. You obviously haven't read the new neut thread that comes in at the same time. BS can neut the HIC dry at that range, it will take a fraction longer and the cap booster will last longer. But they can do it. Battleship weapons also reach out to 37km pretty happily, unless you happen to be flying a Blaster BS I suppose with no range improvements. And BC's get a bonus to their range as well, making most of their weapons reach to at least 37km again unless you are talking the shortest range versions. BS & BC are not going to really be hurt by this. It's as bad an argument as 'think of the newbies' Heavy neuts are operating at 50% effectiveness at 30km, so again they won't reach. Battleships using torps, autocannons and blasters won't be able to hit either. It is the same story for BCs except that their range is a lot less and they do not have the option to nuet, so again, they are heavily impacted. It seems you don't understand battleships or battlecruisers as well as you think. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Trinkets friend Sudden Buggery 2894	Posted - 2015.11.08 02:28:44 - [257] - Quote I am not sure what selective-reading crack pipe you're hitting, but the neut will still be working at 37km. A heavy neut will have the neuting power of a medium neut at that range If you also consider the BS which get flown the most, your Onyx / Broadsword in a one on one are going to struggle. Rattlesnake with Ogres is going to lay down a good 850-950 DPS on the HIC at 37km. Sure, the HIC can move around for a while (couple of minutes with MWD on) but it's not dodging drone or cruise missile DPS from a Rattlesnake. Domi's? Same as the Snake. Geddon? 550 DPS from drones and full neuting to 38km, 50% to 50km. HIC will cap out pretty damn quick. Bhaalgorn, even easier, and it gets 30km webs. Machariel might suffer a tad if it gets scrammed, but again, it's got a hefty tank and will do a decent whack of DPS against the sig-bloated HIC. I don't know what else really gets used in terms of BS these days, maybe a megathron or two. So yes, you'll be able to kite the mega doing 500 DPS with the Onyx, for a couple of minutes until you cap out, and then you're going to have to hope your tank holds up. Tempests? Utility highs and good falloff from ACs, not too bad. At the end of the day, the HIC will be a threat to some BS, but not others. In gang work, your BS is basically counting on getting scrammed. Big Miker might have a bit more trouble making zomg solo videos with 37.5km scram HICs, but he'll adapt I am sure (like, dualpropsfor a start). Mostly by not engaging brawling gangs which field HICs, r ensuring he starts the engagement at range and spreads the HIC away from the other ships. The 37.5km scramming HIC is FINALLY an answer to the cruisers online kite meta which so annoys everyone who wants to brawl, or use armour, r doesn't want to have to deploy boosts just to compete. This is, frankly, a vital tool for hard-countering shield kiters and giving gangs of slower brawlers an ability to turn off MWD's, overhaul their enemies, and overwhelm them with DPS. The HIC by itself isn't going to blot out the sun. But it is going to provide a local area deterrent for gangs of armour ships in the tackle role, paired with Huginns and Geddons (neut falloff), you will finally be able to run a small gang of slower ships with damage projection and counter the fast movers. If it deters your orthrus cancer from attempting to come in range and sit in the 30-40km radius plinking away and picking off enemies one by one, then it's a great asset. The meta will develop around these ships. Few gangs use HICs because of the slow sludginess and the fact infinipoint basically doesn't help except in catching stabbed up smartbombing Rokhs and the odd DST. Now it will give your armour gang a decided potent advantage. The only concern i really have is frigates and RLML Onyxes. This is an element of concern, as uber scrams will threaten ceptors, tackle frigs etc, and a single HIC could hold off all tackle. But that's the same with RLML Orthrus. Doctor Prince Field Marshall of Prolapse. Alliance and Grand Sasquatch of Bob We take Batphones. Contact us at Hola Batmanuel - Free call 1800-UR-MOMMA ~~ Localectomy Blog ~~
Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 307	Posted - 2015.11.08 02:56:57 - [258] - Quote Trinkets friend wrote: I am not sure what selective-reading crack pipe you're hitting, but the neut will still be working at 37km. A heavy neut will have the neuting power of a medium neut at that range 37km is almost 200% falloff for a heavy neut. You'll be doing around 6% of your neuting power, so it is basically worthless. 36 cap drained every 24 seconds to be precise. I am not sure what crack pipe your hitting but it must be some good stuff chuckles Trinkets friend wrote: If you also consider the BS which get flown the most, your Onyx / Broadsword in a one on one are going to struggle. Rattlesnake with Ogres is going to lay down a good 850-950 DPS on the HIC at 37km. Sure, the HIC can move around for a while (couple of minutes with MWD on) but it's not dodging drone or cruise missile DPS from a Rattlesnake. Domi's? Same as the Snake. Geddon? 550 DPS from drones and full neuting to 38km, 50% to 50km. HIC will cap out pretty damn quick. Bhaalgorn, even easier, and it gets 30km webs. Machariel might suffer a tad if it gets scrammed, but again, it's got a hefty tank and will do a decent whack of DPS against the sig-bloated HIC. I don't know what else really gets used in terms of BS these days, maybe a megathron or two. So yes, you'll be able to kite the mega doing 500 DPS with the Onyx, for a couple of minutes until you cap out, and then you're going to have to hope your tank holds up. Tempests? Utility highs and good falloff from ACs, not too bad. At the end of the day, the HIC will be a threat to some BS, but not others. The HIC will be able to kill any small gang or solo gameplay for blaster mega, hyperion, brutix, AC tempest, maelstrom (have a look, ACs will barely tickle a HIC at that range), torp typhoon, hurricane, cyclone (unless HML), harbinger. There are probably more but that is just off the top of my head. A lot of this would be negated if the scram were 20km or 25km as you first believed a couple of posts ago. Is it worth pushing all those ships down in the meta... Trinkets friend wrote: In gang work, your BS is basically counting on getting scrammed. Big Miker might have a bit more trouble making zomg solo videos with 37.5km scram HICs, but he'll adapt I am sure (like, dualpropsfor a start). Mostly by not engaging brawling gangs which field HICs, r ensuring he starts the engagement at range and spreads the HIC away from the other ships. So your only option when facing a HIC is to not take the fight. A lot of fights that BSs and BCs could have otherwise taken will be off limits now if a HIC is around. Again is it worth it when the HIC would still be a great ship with a 20km scram. Trinkets friend wrote: The 37.5km scramming HIC is FINALLY an answer to the cruisers online kite meta which so annoys everyone who wants to brawl, or use armour, r doesn't want to have to deploy boosts just to compete. This is, frankly, a vital tool for hard-countering shield kiters and giving gangs of slower brawlers an ability to turn off MWD's, overhaul their enemies, and overwhelm them with DPS. Kiting cruisers such as the long pointing orrthus and garmur will still be able to point above HIC range. I'm a big proponent of nerfing those ships in the meta from the day they were released, but what will really kill them though is the new missile disruptors. This extended HIC range isn't necessary or going to work against a good Orthus or Garmur pilot. I agree with you that HICs having this extended scram is a much needed tool in their arsenal, although I think at the currently proposed range it is overkill that whilst hurting some ships that do deserve to be pushed down in the meta, it will hurt twice as many that don't. And as I said earlier the new missile disruptors will take care of a lot of the kitey missile BS that goes on at the moment without needing this over the top long scram range. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
d0cTeR9 Astro Technologies SpaceMonkey's Alliance 271	Posted - 2015.11.08 03:01:35 - [259] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: As someone with HIC V and Graviton Physics V, this makes me quite happy. HIC's are already great ships. Don't make them any easier to get into or they will blot out the sun. A truly awesome and underrated ship class just got better. There is no reason to add new skills. PS - WTB four faction WDFG's ASAP! If anything, HIC's should be harder to get in. They are like in every gang/fleet, usually in multitudes Been around since the beginning.
Portmanteau oooh ponies 185	Posted - 2015.11.09 17:50:55 - [260] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Suitonia wrote: A separate script that has reduced range (Maybe 40% of normal) would probably make this a bit more balanced. 37.5km Scrams on T2 HIC is incredibly powerful, and actually stronger than best faction linked heating Lachesis, obviously HICs can't get reps like a Lach can but they still have huge buffers and they will be incredibly problematic for small gangs, especially those without links. Yeah we've got this in our back pocket. We want to see how this works out, and if its too OP we'll introduce a new scrambling script with a shorter range. What about preventing RSEBOing and well as RRing while HICscramming. These changes have gate camp cancer potential and that would at least help by limiting HICs to SEBOing themselves.

Portmanteau oooh ponies 185	Posted - 2015.11.09 17:59:00 - [261] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Chainsaw Plankton wrote: I think my biggest question is what roles do frigates and destroyers play with 37.5km scrams being common on cruisers? If you think HIC's are going to be common even with this change, you are quite delusional. HIC's are a highly specialised ship and will continue to be rare even after this change. Can I fly one? Yes, because I can fly anything subcap that is in the combat line (missing a couple of industrial T2's) Can most people fly a HIC? No. Will most people train to fly a HIC? Also no. Hmm instant train (TSPs) incoming disagrees with you.
Lady Rift What Shall We Call It 242	Posted - 2015.11.09 18:31:58 - [262] - Quote Portmanteau wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: Chainsaw Plankton wrote: I think my biggest question is what roles do frigates and destroyers play with 37.5km scrams being common on cruisers? If you think HIC's are going to be common even with this change, you are quite delusional. HIC's are a highly specialised ship and will continue to be rare even after this change. Can I fly one? Yes, because I can fly anything subcap that is in the combat line (missing a couple of industrial T2's) Can most people fly a HIC? No. Will most people train to fly a HIC? Also no. Hmm instant train (TSPs) incoming disagrees with you. HIC skill 6x cruiser is 5x Propulsion Jamming 3 x Graviton Physics 5x Science 1x each 1x is ~256k lp. are all skills needed at 5 to make good use of the hic (only way to get the 37km scram from t2 mods) at 100% efficiently would need 20x skills or ~5 120 000sp for all of it. which is just over 10 packs. which in its self pushes a new toon over the mark where they get the skill packs at 100% efficient
Xequecal GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 361	Posted - 2015.11.09 19:29:19 - [263] - Quote The Devoter will be pretty nuts in lowsec with snakes, tbh. Remember the Navy Omen can't fit snakes because you need a PG implant to fit 4 guns + MWD + injector + ancillary rep, and that **** is really good. Devoter with the same fit and snakes is just as fast, better tank, does a lot more gun DPS, and has the 38km scram and possibly a web as well.
Chainsaw Plankton Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 2007	Posted - 2015.11.09 20:03:36 - [264] - Quote Lady Rift wrote: HIC skill 6x cruiser is 5x Propulsion Jamming 3 x Graviton Physics 5x Science 1x each 1x is ~256k lp. are all skills needed at 5 to make good use of the hic (only way to get the 37km scram from t2 mods) at 100% efficiently would need 20x skills or ~5 120 000sp for all of it. which is just over 10 packs. which in its self pushes a new toon over the mark where they get the skill packs at 100% efficient and most people have either some of that or all of that already trained. Crusier 5 is very common and one of the first "long" trains many new players do. I have grav 5 hic 4 alt has grav 4 hic 5 other alt has grav 0 hic 1. I guess ccp changed the reqs to train it at some point. but it will be a quick train to 4/4. and on my other two chars I could probably get the other to 5 if I really cared before this goes live, worst case shortly after. According to eve-board http://eveboard.com/statistics/ships 19252 pilots can fly an Onyx The least popular is the Devoter with 17918. I would assume there is a lot of overlap. Although there appear to be some oddities in the ship data. "14083 pilots can fly all Interdictors" but then under each individual ship the numbers are between 3527 - 4906. My best guess is the ship reqs got changed and the code on eveboard didn't get updated? Those dictor pilots are pretty close to being in a hic. Also that is just the pilots on eveboard. using TSP for that does sound a bit iffy, and the other question is when will (if?) that even hit. doubt it would be worth it beyond maybe boosting a level or two of one of the skills. with grav 4 hic 4 you still get a 32.4km scram with a hic and meta wdfg. and with grav 5 (so t2 wdfg) hic 4 36km. Yea I have doubts about all level 5 pilots being common. But still 30+km scrams are pretty damn strong. Portmanteau wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Suitonia wrote: A separate script that has reduced range (Maybe 40% of normal) would probably make this a bit more balanced. 37.5km Scrams on T2 HIC is incredibly powerful, and actually stronger than best faction linked heating Lachesis, obviously HICs can't get reps like a Lach can but they still have huge buffers and they will be incredibly problematic for small gangs, especially those without links. Yeah we've got this in our back pocket. We want to see how this works out, and if its too OP we'll introduce a new scrambling script with a shorter range. What about preventing RSEBOing and well as RRing while HICscramming. These changes have gate camp cancer potential and that would at least help by limiting HICs to SEBOing themselves. when hics have the WDFG they can't receive remote assistance, so current mechanics mean you cant RSEBO or RR a hic while it is bubbling or pointing. The thing is you can rsebo or rr the hic before it activates the WDFG so it can quick lock something and then infinite point. To deny remote assistance for simply having a WDFG equipped would probably be too strong of a drawback. @ChainsawPlankto
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 2680	Posted - 2015.11.09 20:03:45 - [265] - Quote Xequecal wrote: The Devoter will be pretty nuts in lowsec with snakes, tbh. Remember the Navy Omen can't fit snakes because you need a PG implant to fit 4 guns + MWD + injector + ancillary rep, and that **** is really good. Devoter with the same fit and snakes is just as fast, better tank, does a lot more gun DPS, and has the 38km scram and possibly a web as well. So you are complaining that a T2 Cruiser with pirate implants is going to be better than a Navy Cruiser? WTF? That is working exactly as intended if a T2 Cruiser with a full set of pirate implants (Did you use HG Snakes or just Med grade?) is better than a Navy Cruiser without an implant set.
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1921	Posted - 2015.11.09 20:05:44 - [266] - Quote Trinkets friend wrote: The only concern i really have is frigates and RLML Onyxes. This is an element of concern, as uber scrams will threaten ceptors, tackle frigs etc, and a single HIC could hold off all tackle. But that's the same with RLML Orthrus. I also share this concern. I could actually see RLML Onyx gangs being a thing. That has almost as much to do with the RLML as it does with anything else. Still, good luck to any Sabre, Interceptor, Garmur, or other small tackle ship within 37.5km of an Onyx or group of Onyx's. The Broadsword, Devoter, and Phobos will have a harder time applying DPS to small things (without support), but the Onyx will not. I am sort of assuming that CCP has a specific reason for choosing 37.5km as the maximum range for the HIC's scrambling effect. For example, what are the planned ranges for the capital stasis webifiers, warp disruptors, warp scramblers, etc? What are the planned ranges for capital neutralizers? All these things are important considerations. It might make sense to rationalize the entire warp scrambling, disrupting field in light of the new capital class modules. Honestly, one of the larger and more refreshing changes CCP could impose on Eve would be a rethinking of all weapon ranges, ship speeds, locking ranges, etc. The whole system is currently very syncretic, after years of adjusting by different developers with different theories of ship design philosophy. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Xequecal GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 361	Posted - 2015.11.09 21:08:43 - [267] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: Trinkets friend wrote: The only concern i really have is frigates and RLML Onyxes. This is an element of concern, as uber scrams will threaten ceptors, tackle frigs etc, and a single HIC could hold off all tackle. But that's the same with RLML Orthrus. I also share this concern. I could actually see RLML Onyx gangs being a thing. That has almost as much to do with the RLML as it does with anything else. Still, good luck to any Sabre, Interceptor, Garmur, or other small tackle ship within 37.5km of an Onyx or group of Onyx's. The Broadsword, Devoter, and Phobos will have a harder time applying DPS to small things (without support), but the Onyx will not. I am sort of assuming that CCP has a specific reason for choosing 37.5km as the maximum range for the HIC's scrambling effect. For example, what are the planned ranges for the capital stasis webifiers, warp disruptors, warp scramblers, etc? What are the planned ranges for capital neutralizers? All these things are important considerations. It might make sense to rationalize the entire warp scrambling, disrupting field in light of the new capital class modules. Honestly, one of the larger and more refreshing changes CCP could impose on Eve would be a rethinking of all weapon ranges, ship speeds, locking ranges, etc. The whole system is currently very syncretic, after years of adjusting by different developers with different theories of ship design philosophy. I'm pretty sure Scorch will hit even an interceptor at 38km with its MWD turned off. Onyx is nuts against frigates but kinetic damage means it's really bad against anything bigger. Pretty much every T2 ship bigger than a destroyer that actually gets flown has a huge kinetic resist bonus.
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1921	Posted - 2015.11.09 21:16:07 - [268] - Quote Xequecal wrote: FT Diomedes wrote: Trinkets friend wrote: The only concern i really have is frigates and RLML Onyxes. This is an element of concern, as uber scrams will threaten ceptors, tackle frigs etc, and a single HIC could hold off all tackle. But that's the same with RLML Orthrus. I also share this concern. I could actually see RLML Onyx gangs being a thing. That has almost as much to do with the RLML as it does with anything else. Still, good luck to any Sabre, Interceptor, Garmur, or other small tackle ship within 37.5km of an Onyx or group of Onyx's. The Broadsword, Devoter, and Phobos will have a harder time applying DPS to small things (without support), but the Onyx will not. I am sort of assuming that CCP has a specific reason for choosing 37.5km as the maximum range for the HIC's scrambling effect. For example, what are the planned ranges for the capital stasis webifiers, warp disruptors, warp scramblers, etc? What are the planned ranges for capital neutralizers? All these things are important considerations. It might make sense to rationalize the entire warp scrambling, disrupting field in light of the new capital class modules. Honestly, one of the larger and more refreshing changes CCP could impose on Eve would be a rethinking of all weapon ranges, ship speeds, locking ranges, etc. The whole system is currently very syncretic, after years of adjusting by different developers with different theories of ship design philosophy. I'm pretty sure Scorch will hit even an interceptor at 38km with its MWD turned off. Onyx is nuts against frigates but kinetic damage means it's really bad against anything bigger. Pretty much every T2 ship bigger than a destroyer that actually gets flown has a huge kinetic resist bonus. So, yes, the Devoter might be an issue as well. My Devoter fits FMPL II's with a 33+6 Scorch range. And it can carry two flights of light drones. Dual propulsion might become very important for certain fleet tackle setups. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 629	Posted - 2015.11.09 21:19:23 - [269] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Xequecal wrote: The Devoter will be pretty nuts in lowsec with snakes, tbh. Remember the Navy Omen can't fit snakes because you need a PG implant to fit 4 guns + MWD + injector + ancillary rep, and that **** is really good. Devoter with the same fit and snakes is just as fast, better tank, does a lot more gun DPS, and has the 38km scram and possibly a web as well. So you are complaining that a T2 Cruiser with pirate implants is going to be better than a Navy Cruiser? WTF? That is working exactly as intended if a T2 Cruiser with a full set of pirate implants (Did you use HG Snakes or just Med grade?) is better than a Navy Cruiser without an implant set. Also use the correct scram range, even if you are assuming all V's. Or are we now counting Faction fittings on the HIC vs normal T2/Meta on the Navy Omen also? Biased analysis much? Well the nomen doesnt get a 30km+ scram. The devoter benefits from the same bonuses as the nomen though. He did specifically say lowsec too. Lowsec is brimming with implanted/linked everything, so its really not that surprising to mention this. You really believe the playerbase and the linked sh-tlords in lowsec arent goimg to abuse the ever loving hell out of a 30km+ scram? Have you not seen what lowsec has been turned into since garm/orthrus/gila become the standard risk averse gang composition? Dual nano devoter with HG snakes is about 2k cold. Still slower than the nomen. However, you can fit a web instead of point (since you have the high slot uber scram). You have t2 resists + 20% more resist added on and the same drone bay. Add in links and now you have long webs, long scram, great resist, great cap, absolute range control and decent dps (400 out to 40km). This isnt even including the blob that is behind this thing. Or the speed/tank bonus that links will apply. By itself i would agree it would be annoying, but MAYBE counterable. But thats the thing, no one flies these things solo excluding a couple people. There is always a gang nearby when a HIC is around. Its like when you see a lone garmur, there is a gang behind it. Its job is to hold you, tank you for 30 seconds and then let the blob kill you. At least a garm/orthrus has to get around 20km to scram... not the HIC though. If garm/orthrus are any idea on what happens when you give ships scram bonuses, i expect these to be just as prevalent. Consider the cost of orthrus and then the cost of a HIC. HIC is cheaper in most cases and will now have a super scram. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 310	Posted - 2015.11.09 21:52:11 - [270] - Quote I don't think people realise how strong it is to have extra scram range over your opponent. By using it defensively you basically get complete range control. A HIC with its MWD active will have the speed advantage over any other ship in the game when a scram is applied. So with the range control advantage you are forced to engage the HIC at range, this will be around 35km. What this means in its essence is that anything that cannot out damage and out tank a HIC at that range will either be dead or at best will be held in place until the fight escalates. I don't think many in this thread are understanding this fact; every extra KM of scram range you give a ship means it is pushing more and more ships into a position where they are in a position where they cannot engage. There will be a couple of counters such as a rapier and arazu combo for example, although these counters are too few and far between, and a lot of them will be pushed out of being able to engage due to not being able to break the HIC tank without backup. Hopefully this summarises the crux of the issue in its essence. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading

Portmanteau oooh ponies 186	Posted - 2015.11.09 23:42:47 - [271] - Quote Chainsaw Plankton wrote: The thing is you can rsebo or rr the hic before it activates the WDFG so it can quick lock something and then infinite point. To deny remote assistance for simply having a WDFG equipped would probably be too strong of a drawback. That was kind of what I was getting at, just very poorly worded/slightly misunderstood, I disagree that it would be too strong penalty, have a feeling these will be the new gatecamp cancer ship, ofc I may well be being slightly too paranoid :) We'll see I guess. As far the TSP thing is concerned, I agree that many pilots will have a lot of the pre reqs already trained, I have cruiser V, proulsion jamming V. To me Grav phys V and HIC V seem ideal candidates to drop TSPs on if this were to become a FOTM ship. Instant HIC pilots were already being mentioned as one of several insta train/new character possibilities for TSPs before these changes were mentioned and FOTM 36km scram HICs will only require a small ish jump in skills for many pilots having most of the skills trained already. I think TSP/FOTM issues are a real possibility, a lot would depend on price and if (lol) / when TSPs happen.
Goldensaver Lom Corporation Just let it happen 420	Posted - 2015.11.10 00:00:35 - [272] - Quote Portmanteau wrote: Chainsaw Plankton wrote: The thing is you can rsebo or rr the hic before it activates the WDFG so it can quick lock something and then infinite point. To deny remote assistance for simply having a WDFG equipped would probably be too strong of a drawback. That was kind of what I was getting at, just very poorly worded/slightly misunderstood, I disagree that it would be too strong penalty, have a feeling these will be the new gatecamp cancer ship, ofc I may well be being slightly too paranoid :) We'll see I guess. As far the TSP thing is concerned, I agree that many pilots will have a lot of the pre reqs already trained, I have cruiser V, proulsion jamming V. To me Grav phys V and HIC V seem ideal candidates to drop TSPs on if this were to become a FOTM ship. Instant HIC pilots were already being mentioned as one of several insta train/new character possibilities for TSPs before these changes were mentioned and FOTM 36km scram HICs will only require a small ish jump in skills for many pilots having most of the skills trained already. I think TSP/FOTM issues are a real possibility, a lot would depend on price and if (lol) / when TSPs happen. Oh yeah. That penalty is fine. It's not like a Hictor might need reps at all, especially not when you're tackling a super in low with a buddy Hictor and trading off activations to keep yourselves alive. Hictors definitely don't die enough in their main role, the definitely need to be the kind of ship that not only do you bubble yourself half the time, but when you're not bubbling yourself you are still going to die anyways because you can't get repped.
FearlessLittleToaster GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 75	Posted - 2015.11.10 00:09:24 - [273] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: I don't think people realise how strong it is to have extra scram range over your opponent. By using it defensively you basically get complete range control. A HIC with its MWD active will have the speed advantage over any other ship in the game when a scram is applied. I don't think many in this thread are understanding this fact; every extra KM of scram range you give a ship means it is pushing more and more ships into a position where they are in a position where they cannot engage. At 37.5+km you have pushed the majority of ship in eve into this position as they cannot out damage a HIC at this distance. And very much the same can be said about the current long pointing kiting ships; fly one or watch it orbit you out of reach until you die or the other player gets bored. So it seems that the feedback in this thread can almost be distilled down to two possible options: 1. Implement the HICs as proposed, with a 35km scram, to give everyone not in a Garmur a way to catch one 2. Make the Garmur less powerful somehow.
Portmanteau oooh ponies 186	Posted - 2015.11.10 00:20:33 - [274] - Quote Goldensaver wrote: Oh yeah. That penalty is fine. It's not like a Hictor might need reps at all, especially not when you're tackling a super in low with a buddy Hictor and trading off activations to keep yourselves alive. Hictors definitely don't die enough in their main role, the definitely need to be the kind of ship that not only do you bubble yourself half the time, but when you're not bubbling yourself you are still going to die anyways because you can't get repped. I meant applying to RSEBOing only
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 629	Posted - 2015.11.10 00:44:06 - [275] - Quote FearlessLittleToaster wrote: Moac Tor wrote: I don't think people realise how strong it is to have extra scram range over your opponent. By using it defensively you basically get complete range control. A HIC with its MWD active will have the speed advantage over any other ship in the game when a scram is applied. I don't think many in this thread are understanding this fact; every extra KM of scram range you give a ship means it is pushing more and more ships into a position where they are in a position where they cannot engage. At 37.5+km you have pushed the majority of ship in eve into this position as they cannot out damage a HIC at this distance. And very much the same can be said about the current long pointing kiting ships; fly one or watch it orbit you out of reach until you die or the other player gets bored. So it seems that the feedback in this thread can almost be distilled down to two possible options: 1. Implement the HICs as proposed, with a 35km scram, to give everyone not in a Garmur a way to catch one 2. Make the Garmur less powerful somehow. Except garm/orthrus you could always MJD away from in a BS/BC. Now with the uber scram HIC that tactic flies out the window. At least with a garm/orthrus when they moved in to scram an MJD cycle they would be in range of large neuts. Not the case with these HICs. Destroying the almost non existant large ship meta (BS/BC) just to fix garmurs seems a bit excessive dont you think? Damp a garm is a much better tactic. Bringing a lach/arazu/keres counters garmur. Hell just nerfing the point range bonus on the garmur would be a hell of a lot better than the proposed 30km+ scram HIC. I dont know about everyone else, but im tired of the small ship meta. BC/BS have been dumpstered for some time now. BC just now getting their legs back. Now they will be dumpstered again because the one module that makes them flexible has been rendered useless if there is a HIC around. Same for BS. So i guess its going to be HIC/Sansha online now? Since the only ship to counter an uber scram will be sansha ships with AB bonus. I know i sound a little salty, and so be it, but this seems too heavy handed on an already weak meta and just pushes the meta further into small ships that can get decent AB speed when roaming. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 310	Posted - 2015.11.10 01:19:29 - [276] - Quote FearlessLittleToaster wrote: Moac Tor wrote: I don't think people realise how strong it is to have extra scram range over your opponent. By using it defensively you basically get complete range control. A HIC with its MWD active will have the speed advantage over any other ship in the game when a scram is applied. I don't think many in this thread are understanding this fact; every extra KM of scram range you give a ship means it is pushing more and more ships into a position where they are in a position where they cannot engage. At 37.5+km you have pushed the majority of ship in eve into this position as they cannot out damage a HIC at this distance. And very much the same can be said about the current long pointing kiting ships; fly one or watch it orbit you out of reach until you die or the other player gets bored. So it seems that the feedback in this thread can almost be distilled down to two possible options: 1. Implement the HICs as proposed, with a 35km scram, to give everyone not in a Garmur a way to catch one 2. Make the Garmur less powerful somehow. Or keep the scram range but make it so that the HIC cannot activate a propulsion module with it active. That would still be a heavy nerf to kitey ships without it negatively impacting everything else. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Naoru Kozan After Midnight 97	Posted - 2015.11.10 11:32:04 - [277] - Quote Xequecal wrote: The Devoter will be pretty nuts in lowsec with snakes, tbh. Remember the Navy Omen can't fit snakes because you need a PG implant to fit 4 guns + MWD + injector + ancillary rep, and that **** is really good. Devoter with the same fit and snakes is just as fast, better tank, does a lot more gun DPS, and has the 38km scram and possibly a web as well. Ummm yeah...standard Nomen fit as double T2 locus + ACR.
Naoru Kozan After Midnight 97	Posted - 2015.11.10 11:40:01 - [278] - Quote 36KM scram on a massively tanked cruiser feels a little bit broken to me. Honestly if people are so concerned about the "kite meta" simply toning down the point range bonus on the Garmur + Orthrus fixes many complaints. RLML boats aside the current kiting window is between 30-40KM. 36KM scram HICs reduce the margin for pilot error to zero. Because when an Arazu or Lach lands on you there is a fighting chance of dropping it before the backup lands (Prot is a different story). But hey, these things will be great for camping gates at least! If the changes go through as is I will have tons of fun messing around with HICs (once I get through the 2 month train to fly them lol). Also a stealth buff for the Sansha ship line!
big miker Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops 376	Posted - 2015.11.10 12:45:37 - [279] - Quote Give the Garmur / Orthrus the navy maulus treatment. 10% bonus to warp disruptor range, and NOT scrambler range. Latest video: Ferocious 6.0 Nano battleships / marauders
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2403	Posted - 2015.11.10 13:10:56 - [280] - Quote big miker wrote: Give the Garmur / Orthrus the navy maulus treatment. 10% bonus to warp disruptor range, and NOT scrambler range. You have that backwards: Quote: 10% bonus to Warp Scrambler range (This bonus does not apply to Warp Disruptors)

big miker Rifterlings Zero.Four Ops 376	Posted - 2015.11.10 13:26:57 - [281] - Quote afkalt wrote: big miker wrote: Give the Garmur / Orthrus the navy maulus treatment. 10% bonus to warp disruptor range, and NOT scrambler range. You have that backwards: Quote: 10% bonus to Warp Scrambler range (This bonus does not apply to Warp Disruptors) Intented, since I find the defensive scram to make that ship too good. Latest video: Ferocious 6.0 Nano battleships / marauders
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 631	Posted - 2015.11.10 14:43:09 - [282] - Quote I think im going to train to fly a devoter or onyx. Its got drones (or rlml), 30km+ scram, good tank, decent projection and will only take me 10 days to train into. Since CCP doesnt seem overly concerned with destroying the large ship meta, guess ill adapt and join the bandwagon of overpowered super scrammers. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2404	Posted - 2015.11.10 18:33:47 - [283] - Quote big miker wrote: afkalt wrote: big miker wrote: Give the Garmur / Orthrus the navy maulus treatment. 10% bonus to warp disruptor range, and NOT scrambler range. You have that backwards: Quote: 10% bonus to Warp Scrambler range (This bonus does not apply to Warp Disruptors) Intented, since I find the defensive scram to make that ship too good. Ahh I thought you meant the maulus had no scram bonus
BABARR PARABELUM-Project Vendetta Mercenary Group 23	Posted - 2015.11.13 00:51:27 - [284] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Hi M8s! As part of our December release, we're doing a module tiericide pass on Warp Disruption Field Generators. Tell us what you think! Goals Provide meaningful options within the module set Changes Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators now Scramble, disabling MJDs and MWDs Added Meta modules Added Faction modules Changed icon for Warp Disruption Field Generators . These ideas just got a name : welcome to the age of NANO-BROADSWORD. That all. You create MJD to give a bit more survivability for big ass ship. And now you break all of that. Brilliant. Now you give more survivability to gate camper, to low sec pirate, ect. (and i know what i'am speaking about, i'am both of that) They had choice : come close for scramble, use a lachesis/arazu/keres, or take the risk to see target MJD away. You just give them more range, more tank = more safety = less ship goes boom.
MrQuisno Steelmaze 6	Posted - 2015.11.13 23:56:30 - [285] - Quote One things they need to do is add a weapons timer regardless if they shoot back or not. If you get pointed by a HIC with the script on board you will get hit with a one min weapons timer. Which means during that one min you can not dock or jump tho a gate. This can not be repeated. Should be a blue cool down timer of 2 minutes. This will add more risk for people on undock and or trying to jump the gates.
HiddenPorpoise Jarlhettur's Drop 407	Posted - 2015.11.14 00:35:58 - [286] - Quote MrQuisno wrote: One things they need to do is add a weapons timer regardless if they shoot back or not. If you get pointed by a HIC with the script on board you will get hit with a one min weapons timer. Which means during that one min you can not dock or jump tho a gate. This can not be repeated. Should be a blue cool down timer of 2 minutes. This will add more risk for people on undock and or trying to jump the gates. "There is literally nothing you can do to save yourself" is stupid and you should feel bad for suggesting it.
Messenger Of Truth Butlerian Crusade 14	Posted - 2015.11.15 13:53:32 - [287] - Quote Destoya wrote: Are you concerned that the reduced gap between T1 and T2 will severely diminish the value of Gravitron Physics V which is only used for T2 WDFG and T2 Capital Tractors? Gravitron Physics is also used heavily in invention and manufacturing, its not like the skill suddenly will have no place in the game.
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 633	Posted - 2015.11.15 16:02:43 - [288] - Quote I still think this is going to be OP as hell. Its not a long train to get into a HIC, and even then you still have a 30km+ scram with T1 WDFG. More than linked arazu's. However, if you choose to push this through, I will abuse the hell out of it. I think a 500dps beam devoter will do the trick. [Devoter, Beamz] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Corelum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer Internal Force Field Array I Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Nanofiber Internal Structure II 50MN Quad LiF Restrained Microwarpdrive Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800 Heavy Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency M Warp Disruption Field Generator II, Focused Warp Disruption Script Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Hobgoblin II x5 512dps using multi (which it can use up to 30km just fine), 1600 m/s cold, cap stable and about a 500 dps tank (OH) before links/implants. May not be the 200k super tank that was mentioned earlier, but it will be a fun solo boat to throw around and harass frigs/cruisers/bc's with. Not to mention providing good dps in a gate camp too. I have a feeling the devoter will be getting quite a bit of use. As will the onyx. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 317	Posted - 2015.11.17 18:43:08 - [289] - Quote Well, seeing as there has been no shift on this yet from CCP I guess i'll reserve this space for the "I told you so comment" for when this is on tranquillity and people are complaining about it on the forums and I can link back to this. In the mean time, I might as well start using (abusing) HICs. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Anthar Thebess 1376	Posted - 2015.11.18 08:15:46 - [290] - Quote Just an idea. Can we make one of this faction points more viable for armor hic, and second one for shield hic? Why they need to be the same? If polarized guns can negate resists, can active hic point do the same but on reduced scale? For example reducing shield or armor resists by 5% , and even maybe boost other by 1%. More options is better! This way : - T1/ T2 for no ehp penalty. - Faction 1 ( only for Armor HIC) - Shield resists lowered by 5% , Armor resists boosted by 1% (stackable) - Faction 2 ( only for Shield HIC) - Armor resists lowered by 5% , Shield resists boosted by 1% (stackable) Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.

HandelsPharmi Pharmi on CharBazaar 1788	Posted - 2015.11.19 08:43:01 - [291] - Quote In my opinion T2 should get the longest point range and Faction and Concord lose fitten requierements but tell me any reason to train to T2 Graviton Physics 5... q
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1955	Posted - 2015.11.19 12:50:15 - [292] - Quote HandelsPharmi wrote: In my opinion T2 should get the longest point range and Faction and Concord lose fitten requierements but tell me any reason to train to T2 Graviton Physics 5... q Any reason to train Graviton Physics V? How about not spending 150-300m ISK on your faction WDFG? CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 646	Posted - 2015.11.20 20:59:49 - [293] - Quote I realized something. With the MJD dessies we can fling HICs with uber scrams 100km which will make snagging ships kiting around 70km much easier. Things will be changing drastically. I like the idea of merging MJD and HIC. What i dont like is the insta lock HIC gate camps that will be popping up everywhere. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
Krevnos Back Door Burglars The Otherworld 34	Posted - 2015.11.20 21:00:44 - [294] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: HandelsPharmi wrote: In my opinion T2 should get the longest point range and Faction and Concord lose fitten requierements but tell me any reason to train to T2 Graviton Physics 5... q Any reason to train Graviton Physics V? How about not spending 150-300m ISK on your faction WDFG? I doubt many players will be too concerned about the price of them unless solo pilots. That extra bit of range means the difference between snagging a target and it getting away.
Sard Caid Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder 119	Posted - 2015.11.20 22:18:09 - [295] - Quote This has been beaten to death at this point, but mark my voice as another one towards scrambler effect at full focused point range being intensely negative on solo and small scale PvP. MJD cancellation / denial at range is fair, even good, but mirror the scrambler effect to current bonused scrambler ranges (15-18km). Thank you for consulting and discussing with the player base prior to rolling this out. SC
Grorious Reader Mongorian Horde 50	Posted - 2015.11.20 23:03:37 - [296] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Goals Provide meaningful options within the module set Changes Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators now Scramble, disabling MJDs and MWDs No. Just...wtf no. What could ccp possibly be thinking? Dictors already have infinite disruptor strength and are the only ship in the game that beats any number of warp stabs. Now you want to make them defeat every other means of escape too?! This ship class is already REQUIRED for small gang/fleet operations in null and WH. Now you want to give them a scrambler that has infinite strength and disruptor-like range? You're ********. Just quit. Whoever came up with this idea, quit your job, go flip burgers somewhere where your terrible ideas can't do anymore harm. This change does not create interesting choices. It just makes dictors replace any other ship type for the purpose of tackling, and makes them even more required for every group PvP op. This change has infinite stupidity, and scrambles my brain.
HandelsPharmi Pharmi on CharBazaar 1788	Posted - 2015.11.21 09:41:54 - [297] - Quote Grorious Reader wrote: CCP Larrikin wrote: Goals Provide meaningful options within the module set Changes Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators now Scramble, disabling MJDs and MWDs No. Just...wtf no. What could ccp possibly be thinking? Dictors already have infinite disruptor strength and are the only ship in the game that beats any number of warp stabs. Now you want to make them defeat every other means of escape too?! This ship class is already REQUIRED for small gang/fleet operations in null and WH. Now you want to give them a scrambler that has infinite strength and disruptor-like range? Just quit. Whoever came up with this idea, quit your job, go flip burgers somewhere where your terrible ideas can't do anymore harm. This change does not create interesting choices. It just makes dictors replace any other ship type for the purpose of tackling, and makes them even more required for every group PvP op. This change has infinite stupidity, and scrambles my brain. You need per ship one scripted generator... you can catch at least ONE ship, amazing... it will not ruin your PvP gameplay.
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 648	Posted - 2015.11.21 14:21:00 - [298] - Quote Got to test out the devoter on SiSi and i believe its going to be a beast. 500+ dps on something with ultimate range control is pretty nasty. I look forward to abusing it on tranquility. Had a geddon neut me while using the WDFG and didnt seem like much of an issue out at uber scram range. Single medium cap booster was more than enough to keep tackle and rep running. Since neuts have falloff now, its not all that hard to keep them in falloff and basically brush off a medium neuts worth of discharge. So the whole neuting a HIC out as a counter doesnt seem viable unless youre flying a curse or bhaal. Wont be **** i can do in say a BC. Cant MJD away from it, cant neut it, wont have the dps to kill it at that range. So short of putting 100mn ABs on everything id say bigger ship roaming will die. Welcome to the new era of Instalock HIC gate campers. Gate camping buff, big ship nerf (cause they really needed it, you know). Combined with the MJD destroyer, these things will be everywhere. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 330	Posted - 2015.11.21 14:52:09 - [299] - Quote Stitch Kaneland wrote: Got to test out the devoter on SiSi and i believe its going to be a beast. 500+ dps on something with ultimate range control is pretty nasty. I look forward to abusing it on tranquility. Had a geddon neut me while using the WDFG and didnt seem like much of an issue out at uber scram range. Single medium cap booster was more than enough to keep tackle and rep running. Since neuts have falloff now, its not all that hard to keep them in falloff and basically brush off a medium neuts worth of discharge. So the whole neuting a HIC out as a counter doesnt seem viable unless youre flying a curse or bhaal. Wont be ** i can do in say a BC. Cant MJD away from it, cant neut it, wont have the dps to kill it at that range. So short of putting 100mn ABs on everything id say bigger ship roaming will die. Welcome to the new era of Instalock HIC gate campers. Gate camping buff, big ship nerf (cause they really needed it, you know). Combined with the MJD destroyer, these things will be everywhere. So exactly as I predicted and others had disagreed strongly against. Well I take no satisfaction tbh that my prediction was correct. Hopefully people are beginning to understand these are too powerful now. I am actually surprised that a geddon with neut range bonus cannot have any effect though, that leaves standard heavy neuts and anything with short range weapons with no chance. I expected that to be the case although I did expect the geddon to possibly be a good counter. Perhaps your opponent had low skills as it doesn't seem right that a geddon has no impact even if you are scramming at max range. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading**
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 649	Posted - 2015.11.21 15:38:47 - [300] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: Stitch Kaneland wrote: Got to test out the devoter on SiSi and i believe its going to be a beast. 500+ dps on something with ultimate range control is pretty nasty. I look forward to abusing it on tranquility. Had a geddon neut me while using the WDFG and didnt seem like much of an issue out at uber scram range. Single medium cap booster was more than enough to keep tackle and rep running. Since neuts have falloff now, its not all that hard to keep them in falloff and basically brush off a medium neuts worth of discharge. So the whole neuting a HIC out as a counter doesnt seem viable unless youre flying a curse or bhaal. Wont be ** i can do in say a BC. Cant MJD away from it, cant neut it, wont have the dps to kill it at that range. So short of putting 100mn ABs on everything id say bigger ship roaming will die. Welcome to the new era of Instalock HIC gate campers. Gate camping buff, big ship nerf (cause they really needed it, you know). Combined with the MJD destroyer, these things will be everywhere. So exactly as I predicted and others had disagreed strongly against. Well I take no satisfaction tbh that my prediction was correct. Hopefully people are slowly beginning to understand that these are too powerful now. By the way, even putting a 100mn AB on you won't be able to close range or escape the HIC, a BC will max out at around 1500 m/s with a oversized AB, and a HIC with a MWD running will easily outrun and out manoeuvre you. Cruiser and below with oversized ABs might be a good counter, although they will still have the issue of trying to out damage / tank the HIC which is not going to be easy at all given the huge EHP and decent DPS that HICs can put out. So it seems like the best counter to a HIC will be another HIC. Did we not just get away from Ishtars online? I am actually surprised though that a geddon with neut range bonus cannot have any effect, that leaves standard heavy neuts and anything with short range weapons with no chance. I expected that to be the case although I did expect the geddon to possibly be a good counter. Perhaps your opponent had low skills as it doesn't seem right that a geddon has no impact even if you are scramming at max range. In a 1v1 scenario, i see HICs as a non-issue. Worst case scenario, ill just slow boat back to gate. What im most worried about are the HICs with no guns, double plated with sebos waiting on a gate with their gang/fleet/camp etc. Or the one HIC that holds you for 30seconds till the rest of the gang gets there. That is my main concern. I see no counter to that short of blobbing the ** out of them in typical n+1 fashion. Which like you said, is ishtars online all over again. As to the geddon, its a possibility that he was low skilled or poorly fit. So i wont say this is 100% confirmed. Still even if he only had 1 heavy neut. I could still keep point and tank him. This is still very bad news for things like ravens, phoons or any other BS that field only 1 unbonused heavy neut. This is using my devoter fit as well. The Onyx fit i have uses 2 cap boosters and a pith large shield booster which is stable and still tanks around 800dps IIRC. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 331	Posted - 2015.11.21 15:59:07 - [301] - Quote Stitch Kaneland wrote: In a 1v1 scenario, i see HICs as a non-issue. Worst case scenario, ill just slow boat back to gate. What im most worried about are the HICs with no guns, double plated with sebos waiting on a gate with their gang/fleet/camp etc. Or the one HIC that holds you for 30seconds till the rest of the gang gets there. That is my main concern. I see no counter to that short of blobbing the ** out of them in typical n+1 fashion. Which like you said, is ishtars online all over again. That is assuming that you are fighting on a gate, and even then that is a long burn back to the gate in an BS or BC unless you are AB fit, plenty of time for hostile reinforcement to arrive on the other side. This will definitely shift the meta towards AB, I can see oversized ABs on BCs and perhaps on BSs becoming a lot more common. Or more likely people just won't use BSs and BCs for solo or small gang. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading**
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1247	Posted - 2015.11.21 16:48:07 - [302] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: Stitch Kaneland wrote: In a 1v1 scenario, i see HICs as a non-issue. Worst case scenario, ill just slow boat back to gate. What im most worried about are the HICs with no guns, double plated with sebos waiting on a gate with their gang/fleet/camp etc. Or the one HIC that holds you for 30seconds till the rest of the gang gets there. That is my main concern. I see no counter to that short of blobbing the **** out of them in typical n+1 fashion. Which like you said, is ishtars online all over again. That is assuming that you are fighting on a gate, and even then that is a long burn back to the gate in an BS or BC unless you are AB fit, plenty of time for hostile reinforcement to arrive on the other side. This will definitely shift the meta towards AB, I can see oversized ABs on BCs and perhaps on BSs becoming a lot more common. Or more likely people just won't use BSs and BCs for solo or small gang. i still can't believe they haven't said much since the thread started, and it also highlights how poor AB's are that only oversized AB's are talked about. and how broken it is that you can do it. T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely. ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 650	Posted - 2015.11.21 16:52:10 - [303] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: This will definitely shift the meta towards AB, I can see oversized ABs on BCs and perhaps on BSs becoming a lot more common. Or more likely people just won't use BSs and BCs for solo or small gang. Which is a shame. CCP: Here are some new BC changes to make BCs viable again 4 weeks later. CCP: So we are making some changes that will dumpster BCs again and reinforce the cruiser and below meta Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
HandelsPharmi Pharmi on CharBazaar 1788	Posted - 2015.11.21 17:06:19 - [304] - Quote Stitch Kaneland wrote: Moac Tor wrote: This will definitely shift the meta towards AB, I can see oversized ABs on BCs and perhaps on BSs becoming a lot more common. Or more likely people just won't use BSs and BCs for solo or small gang. Which is a shame. CCP: Here are some new BC changes to make BCs viable again 4 weeks later. CCP: So we are making some changes that will dumpster BCs again and reinforce the cruiser and below meta CCP Larrikin wrote: Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators now Scramble, disabling MJDs and MWDs Wow, one single ship per scripted Warp Disruption Field Generator. And all 40 other will burn away.
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 651	Posted - 2015.11.21 17:22:32 - [305] - Quote HandelsPharmi wrote: Stitch Kaneland wrote: Moac Tor wrote: This will definitely shift the meta towards AB, I can see oversized ABs on BCs and perhaps on BSs becoming a lot more common. Or more likely people just won't use BSs and BCs for solo or small gang. Which is a shame. CCP: Here are some new BC changes to make BCs viable again 4 weeks later. CCP: So we are making some changes that will dumpster BCs again and reinforce the cruiser and below meta CCP Larrikin wrote: Scripted Warp Disruption Field Generators now Scramble, disabling MJDs and MWDs Wow, one single ship per scripted Warp Disruption Field Generator. And all 40 other will burn away. You should probably read the rest of the thread where I am specifically talking about solo and small gangs. But go ahead and jump into the middle of the conversation like you know something. This has little affect on fleets but will make roaming solo/small gangs a major pain in the ass. Not to mention you act like gate campers/fleets have only 1 HIC. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1247	Posted - 2015.11.21 17:33:01 - [306] - Quote so does using a WDFG actually prevent you from using normal disruptors or scrams? T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely. ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 651	Posted - 2015.11.21 17:35:36 - [307] - Quote Harvey James wrote: so does using a WDFG actually prevent you from using normal disruptors or scrams? I dont think it prevents you from using standard disruptors/scrams (havent tested). When you have a scram with the same range as a linked disruptor though, why waste the mid(s)? Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1247	Posted - 2015.11.21 17:41:20 - [308] - Quote Stitch Kaneland wrote: Harvey James wrote: so does using a WDFG actually prevent you from using normal disruptors or scrams? I dont think it prevents you from using standard disruptors/scrams (havent tested). When you have a scram with the same range as a linked disruptor though, why waste the mid(s)? it would allow you too scram a cynabal and just point another target until someone else could scram it, this assumes only 1 WDFG ofc, my thoughts being for such powerful abilities shouldn't a drawback be added? also on a physics point of view wouldn't this mod prevent the weaker mods field from projecting through? - limit to 1 WDFG per ship (like dictors have) - disallow normal points being usable at the same time p.s. can rep bots work when normal reps don't? T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely. ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 331	Posted - 2015.11.21 20:09:39 - [309] - Quote Harvey James wrote: Stitch Kaneland wrote: Harvey James wrote: so does using a WDFG actually prevent you from using normal disruptors or scrams? I dont think it prevents you from using standard disruptors/scrams (havent tested). When you have a scram with the same range as a linked disruptor though, why waste the mid(s)? it would allow you too scram a cynabal and just point another target until someone else could scram it, this assumes only 1 WDFG ofc, my thoughts being for such powerful abilities shouldn't a drawback be added? also on a physics point of view wouldn't this mod prevent the weaker mods field from projecting through? - limit to 1 WDFG per ship (like dictors have) - disallow normal points being usable at the same time p.s. can rep bots work when normal reps don't? You can also fit up to 6 infinite points. You'd have to sacrifice guns but if you wanted dedicated fleet tackle then I believe it is possible to run all 6 at once. The fitting requirements are not that high. That is also not including standard mid slot point and webs if you really wanted to go all out. So no idea what HandelsPharmi above was going on about. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1959	Posted - 2015.11.21 20:34:00 - [310] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: Harvey James wrote: Stitch Kaneland wrote: Harvey James wrote: so does using a WDFG actually prevent you from using normal disruptors or scrams? I dont think it prevents you from using standard disruptors/scrams (havent tested). When you have a scram with the same range as a linked disruptor though, why waste the mid(s)? it would allow you too scram a cynabal and just point another target until someone else could scram it, this assumes only 1 WDFG ofc, my thoughts being for such powerful abilities shouldn't a drawback be added? also on a physics point of view wouldn't this mod prevent the weaker mods field from projecting through? - limit to 1 WDFG per ship (like dictors have) - disallow normal points being usable at the same time p.s. can rep bots work when normal reps don't? You can also fit up to 6 infinite points. You'd have to sacrifice guns but if you wanted dedicated fleet tackle then I believe it is possible to run all 6 at once. The fitting requirements are not that high. That is also not including standard mid slot point and webs if you really wanted to go all out. So no idea what HandelsPharmi above was going on about. Go ahead and try fitting and running six points with propulsion module, cap booster, and tank. Then remember that remote repairs do not work when any WDFG is active (scripted or not). CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 331	Posted - 2015.11.21 21:00:32 - [311] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: Moac Tor wrote: Harvey James wrote: Stitch Kaneland wrote: Harvey James wrote: so does using a WDFG actually prevent you from using normal disruptors or scrams? I dont think it prevents you from using standard disruptors/scrams (havent tested). When you have a scram with the same range as a linked disruptor though, why waste the mid(s)? it would allow you too scram a cynabal and just point another target until someone else could scram it, this assumes only 1 WDFG ofc, my thoughts being for such powerful abilities shouldn't a drawback be added? also on a physics point of view wouldn't this mod prevent the weaker mods field from projecting through? - limit to 1 WDFG per ship (like dictors have) - disallow normal points being usable at the same time p.s. can rep bots work when normal reps don't? You can also fit up to 6 infinite points. You'd have to sacrifice guns but if you wanted dedicated fleet tackle then I believe it is possible to run all 6 at once. The fitting requirements are not that high. That is also not including standard mid slot point and webs if you really wanted to go all out. So no idea what HandelsPharmi above was going on about. Go ahead and try fitting and running six points with propulsion module, cap booster, and tank. Then remember that remote repairs do not work when any WDFG is active (scripted or not). I didn't say that it was ideal, just that it is possible and you still have plenty of PG and CPU for fitting tank even with all your high slots full of them. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Daemun Khanid Sanctus Imperialis 197	Posted - 2015.11.21 22:50:43 - [312] - Quote Love this change. Gives a purpose for hics in lowsec and helps combat the "RUN AWAY" meta. If you see a hic and make the decision to engage you'd better be committed. Far too many bc's running around lowsec with mjd and fit to kill/neut anything fast enough to get inside normal scram range. Its not remotely op, its a new tactical tool for fighting against risk adverse enemies thats still far too expensive for most gangs to risk in large numbers. Daemun of Khanid
Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 331	Posted - 2015.11.21 23:28:07 - [313] - Quote Daemun Khanid wrote: Love this change. Gives a purpose for hics in lowsec and helps combat the "RUN AWAY" meta. If you see a hic and make the decision to engage you'd better be committed. Far too many bc's running around lowsec with mjd and fit to kill/neut anything fast enough to get inside normal scram range. Its not remotely op, its a new tactical tool for fighting against risk adverse enemies thats still far too expensive for most gangs to risk in large numbers. You must be the first person I've heard complaining about the dominance of BC's in low sec. chuckles Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Daemun Khanid Sanctus Imperialis 197	Posted - 2015.11.21 23:35:17 - [314] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: Daemun Khanid wrote: Love this change. Gives a purpose for hics in lowsec and helps combat the "RUN AWAY" meta. If you see a hic and make the decision to engage you'd better be committed. Far too many bc's running around lowsec with mjd and fit to kill/neut anything fast enough to get inside normal scram range. Its not remotely op, its a new tactical tool for fighting against risk adverse enemies thats still far too expensive for most gangs to risk in large numbers. You must be the first person I've heard complaining about the dominance of BC's in low sec. chuckles Its not dominance, its annoyance. A properly fit and flown bc can be very hard to catch without shipping into a gang specifically fit for the purpose. Lately we just ignore most bc's we see on dscan because you know he's gonna be mjd anti-frig fit. Sneaking a hic on top of them from just outside dscan range will be a nice potential counter. Daemun of Khanid
Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 331	Posted - 2015.11.21 23:48:23 - [315] - Quote Daemun Khanid wrote: Moac Tor wrote: Daemun Khanid wrote: Love this change. Gives a purpose for hics in lowsec and helps combat the "RUN AWAY" meta. If you see a hic and make the decision to engage you'd better be committed. Far too many bc's running around lowsec with mjd and fit to kill/neut anything fast enough to get inside normal scram range. Its not remotely op, its a new tactical tool for fighting against risk adverse enemies thats still far too expensive for most gangs to risk in large numbers. You must be the first person I've heard complaining about the dominance of BC's in low sec. chuckles Its not dominance, its annoyance. A properly fit and flown bc can be very hard to catch without shipping into a gang specifically fit for the purpose (ussually with ewar.) Lately we just ignore most bc's we see on dscan because you know he's gonna be mjd anti-frig fit. Sneaking a hic on top of them from just outside dscan range will be a nice potential counter. Do you not think a BC should have some defence against a frigate gang... Also is there any reason you can't fit a small nos on your frigate to counter his neut, and use your signature to avoid his DPS. Also please don't tell me you fly Garmur's and are then complaining about MJDing BCs, becuase if so then no wonder they are MJDing away from risk averse garmur and kitey frigate gangs. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Daemun Khanid Sanctus Imperialis 197	Posted - 2015.11.22 00:05:43 - [316] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: Daemun Khanid wrote: Moac Tor wrote: Daemun Khanid wrote: Love this change. Gives a purpose for hics in lowsec and helps combat the "RUN AWAY" meta. If you see a hic and make the decision to engage you'd better be committed. Far too many bc's running around lowsec with mjd and fit to kill/neut anything fast enough to get inside normal scram range. Its not remotely op, its a new tactical tool for fighting against risk adverse enemies thats still far too expensive for most gangs to risk in large numbers. You must be the first person I've heard complaining about the dominance of BC's in low sec. chuckles Its not dominance, its annoyance. A properly fit and flown bc can be very hard to catch without shipping into a gang specifically fit for the purpose (ussually with ewar.) Lately we just ignore most bc's we see on dscan because you know he's gonna be mjd anti-frig fit. Sneaking a hic on top of them from just outside dscan range will be a nice potential counter. So you are flying in frigate gangs and you complain that BCs are an annoyance. Why should a BC not have some defence against a frigate gang. And it is relatively easy to counter that defence, fit a small nos to counter his neut, and use your signature to avoid his DPS. Unless you are complaining that your kitey frigate gang cannot engage him risk free with a long point without him MJDing away, in which case I have even less sympathy. Is this thread about hics or is it just a place for you to try and argue something you clearly dont have a clue about. Daemun of Khanid
Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 331	Posted - 2015.11.22 00:22:47 - [317] - Quote Daemun Khanid wrote: Moac Tor wrote: Daemun Khanid wrote: Moac Tor wrote: Daemun Khanid wrote: Love this change. Gives a purpose for hics in lowsec and helps combat the "RUN AWAY" meta. If you see a hic and make the decision to engage you'd better be committed. Far too many bc's running around lowsec with mjd and fit to kill/neut anything fast enough to get inside normal scram range. Its not remotely op, its a new tactical tool for fighting against risk adverse enemies thats still far too expensive for most gangs to risk in large numbers. You must be the first person I've heard complaining about the dominance of BC's in low sec. chuckles Its not dominance, its annoyance. A properly fit and flown bc can be very hard to catch without shipping into a gang specifically fit for the purpose (ussually with ewar.) Lately we just ignore most bc's we see on dscan because you know he's gonna be mjd anti-frig fit. Sneaking a hic on top of them from just outside dscan range will be a nice potential counter. So you are flying in frigate gangs and you complain that BCs are an annoyance. Why should a BC not have some defence against a frigate gang. And it is relatively easy to counter that defence, fit a small nos to counter his neut, and use your signature to avoid his DPS. Unless you are complaining that your kitey frigate gang cannot engage him risk free with a long point without him MJDing away, in which case I have even less sympathy. Is this thread about hics or is it just a place for you to try and argue something you clearly dont have a clue about. I and many others are simply pointing out that the HIC long point adversely affects the BC and BS meta. I do find it somewhat ironic that someone who flys frigate gangs (dominant in the current meta) is struggling against BCs. I've just pointed out how to counter BCs in my above post, I suggest instead of attacking me you take note unless you wish to continue struggling against BCs. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Daemun Khanid Sanctus Imperialis 197	Posted - 2015.11.22 00:37:22 - [318] - Quote Your counters are misguided. If it were that easy it wouldnt be an issue and your still missing the point. Its not about struggling its about a class/fit that needs a more appropriate counter. Hics are designed to catch things. This change makes them viable at doing so in lowsec. Back on the subject of the actual thread, anything that forces ppl to actually stay and fight is a good thing. Daemun of Khanid
Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 331	Posted - 2015.11.22 00:42:35 - [319] - Quote Daemun Khanid wrote: Your counters are misguided. If it were that easy it wouldnt be an issue and your still missing the point. Its not about struggling its about a class/fit that needs a more appropriate counter. Hics are designed to catch things. This change makes them viable at doing so in lowsec. Back on the subject of the actual thread, anything that forces ppl to actually stay and fight is a good thing. My counters are tried and tested, and I never said it was easy but then it shouldn't be fighting a BC in a frigate. But no matter, I am happy if you overlook this as it means more easy targets who don't fully understand the PvP mechanics. But anyway to the point of the thread, as for forcing people to stay and fight, what will actually happen as pointed out and as evidenced from tests on Singularity is that the HIC will kite you at range relatively risk free until either he kills you or backup arrives. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Daemun Khanid Sanctus Imperialis 197	Posted - 2015.11.22 01:11:46 - [320] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: Daemun Khanid wrote: Your counters are misguided. If it were that easy it wouldnt be an issue and your still missing the point. Its not about struggling its about a class/fit that needs a more appropriate counter. Hics are designed to catch things. This change makes them viable at doing so in lowsec. Back on the subject of the actual thread, anything that forces ppl to actually stay and fight is a good thing. My counters are tried and tested, and I never said it was easy, but then it shouldn't be fighting a BC in a frigate. But no matter, I am happy if you overlook this as it means more easy targets who don't fully understand the PvP mechanics. But anyway to the point of the thread, as for forcing people to stay and fight, what will actually happen as pointed out and as evidenced from tests on Singularity is that the HIC will kite you at range relatively risk free until either he kills you or backup arrives. Then your counters are tried and tested against poorly fitted bc's for the job. Keeping you held down until others can get on target is kinda the point. Interceptors, interdictors and hics all serve that specific purpose. Daemun of Khanid

Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 331	Posted - 2015.11.22 01:29:18 - [321] - Quote Daemun Khanid wrote: Moac Tor wrote: Daemun Khanid wrote: Your counters are misguided. If it were that easy it wouldnt be an issue and your still missing the point. Its not about struggling its about a class/fit that needs a more appropriate counter. Hics are designed to catch things. This change makes them viable at doing so in lowsec. Back on the subject of the actual thread, anything that forces ppl to actually stay and fight is a good thing. My counters are tried and tested, and I never said it was easy, but then it shouldn't be fighting a BC in a frigate. But no matter, I am happy if you overlook this as it means more easy targets who don't fully understand the PvP mechanics. But anyway to the point of the thread, as for forcing people to stay and fight, what will actually happen as pointed out and as evidenced from tests on Singularity is that the HIC will kite you at range relatively risk free until either he kills you or backup arrives. Then your counters are tried and tested against poorly fitted bc's for the job. Keeping you held down until others can get on target is kinda the point. Interceptors, interdictors and hics all serve that specific purpose. I'll just say that a single svipul can very easily single handedly hold down any BC if you know what you are doing, the only real problem will be ECM. The same logic can easily be applied to a standard frigate although it is more risky. Like I said, BCs are very weak against smaller ships in the current meta. It is against cruisers and above where they start to become more useful. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
FT Diomedes The Graduates Get Off My Lawn 1959	Posted - 2015.11.22 01:34:34 - [322] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: Daemun Khanid wrote: Moac Tor wrote: Daemun Khanid wrote: Your counters are misguided. If it were that easy it wouldnt be an issue and your still missing the point. Its not about struggling its about a class/fit that needs a more appropriate counter. Hics are designed to catch things. This change makes them viable at doing so in lowsec. Back on the subject of the actual thread, anything that forces ppl to actually stay and fight is a good thing. My counters are tried and tested, and I never said it was easy, but then it shouldn't be fighting a BC in a frigate. But no matter, I am happy if you overlook this as it means more easy targets who don't fully understand the PvP mechanics. But anyway to the point of the thread, as for forcing people to stay and fight, what will actually happen as pointed out and as evidenced from tests on Singularity is that the HIC will kite you at range relatively risk free until either he kills you or backup arrives. Then your counters are tried and tested against poorly fitted bc's for the job. Keeping you held down until others can get on target is kinda the point. Interceptors, interdictors and hics all serve that specific purpose. I'll just say that a single svipul can very easily single handedly hold down any BC if you know what you are doing, the only real problem will be ECM. The same logic can easily be applied to a standard frigate although it is more risky. Like I said, BCs are very weak against smaller ships in the current meta. It is against cruisers and above where they start to become more useful. As it should be... CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Daemun Khanid Sanctus Imperialis 199	Posted - 2015.11.22 01:39:31 - [323] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: Daemun Khanid wrote: Moac Tor wrote: Daemun Khanid wrote: Your counters are misguided. If it were that easy it wouldnt be an issue and your still missing the point. Its not about struggling its about a class/fit that needs a more appropriate counter. Hics are designed to catch things. This change makes them viable at doing so in lowsec. Back on the subject of the actual thread, anything that forces ppl to actually stay and fight is a good thing. My counters are tried and tested, and I never said it was easy, but then it shouldn't be fighting a BC in a frigate. But no matter, I am happy if you overlook this as it means more easy targets who don't fully understand the PvP mechanics. But anyway to the point of the thread, as for forcing people to stay and fight, what will actually happen as pointed out and as evidenced from tests on Singularity is that the HIC will kite you at range relatively risk free until either he kills you or backup arrives. Then your counters are tried and tested against poorly fitted bc's for the job. Keeping you held down until others can get on target is kinda the point. Interceptors, interdictors and hics all serve that specific purpose. I'll just say that a single svipul can very easily single handedly hold down any BC if you know what you are doing, the only real problem will be ECM. The same logic can easily be applied to a standard frigate although it is more risky. Like I said, BCs are very weak against smaller ships in the current meta. It is against cruisers and above where they start to become more useful. A single svipul in scram range will be double neuted, double webbed and dead or if its a 10mn fit will be forced off grid if it can do so before it hits zero cap. Just ask ole stitch there, he's been posting in this thread and enjoys flying bc's in lowsec to great effectiveness. In fact i have an onyx sitting in hanger that I mistakenly fit out months ago specifically to catch his bc's before realizing that the scripted disruptor doesnt shut down mjd's. Just to reiterate, I'm not talking about standard fleet fit bc's. I'm talking about fits that are very specifically setup to blap the crap out of targets of opportunity and escape with little risk of getting held down long enough to die. Daemun of Khanid
Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 331	Posted - 2015.11.22 01:59:37 - [324] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: Moac Tor wrote: I'll just say that a single svipul can very easily single handedly hold down any BC if you know what you are doing, the only real problem will be ECM. The same logic can easily be applied to a standard frigate although it is more risky. Like I said, BCs are very weak against smaller ships in the current meta. It is against cruisers and above where they start to become more useful. As it should be... Exactly, I've got no problem with frigates and smaller ships being strong against BCs in the current meta, because BCs excel against cruisers and above. They slot into place quite nicely at the moment. Daemun Khanid wrote: A single svipul in scram range will be double neuted, double webbed and dead or if its a 10mn fit will be forced off grid if it can do so before it hits zero cap. Just ask ole stitch there, he's been posting in this thread and enjoys flying bc's in lowsec to great effectiveness. In fact i have an onyx sitting in hanger that I mistakenly fit out months ago specifically to catch his bc's before realizing that the scripted disruptor doesnt shut down mjd's. If your specifically gearing a BC to fight frigates your gimping your fit, they don't have many native strengths against smaller ships and can very easily be pinned down. Sure you can get a semi effective anti frigate BC, like everything else in eve if you gimp your fit you can make it good at one specific task, although it is going to suck against everything else and still won't be the best ship for the job vs frigates either. On the other hand you could be complaining about navy BCs which are slightly more geared towards damage application vs smaller targets, but that is a trait of the navy line which I think most people are happy with. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Daemun Khanid Sanctus Imperialis 199	Posted - 2015.11.22 02:07:00 - [325] - Quote You simply seem to fail to grasp the entire point and dont have experience with slippery fits. A fit isnt gimped when its doing precisely what its meant to do. I presume you are an alt because if you are even remotely trying to weigh in on the matter w 14 kills to your name your opinion certainly doesnt count for much. Daemun of Khanid
Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 331	Posted - 2015.11.22 02:26:27 - [326] - Quote Daemun Khanid wrote: You simply seem to fail to grasp the entire point and dont have experience with slippery fits. A fit isnt gimped when its doing precisely what its meant to do. I have actually fought and killed plenty of slippery fits, I wouldn't consider any BC to be very slippery. Try fighting a phantasm or nano nightmare with defensive webs and scram, or T3 with fuel catalyst and oversized AB and you'll see what a proper slippery fit is. BCs are one of the least capable classes of ship to be able to fit as you suggest. They don't get that much benefit from an oversized AB, and are natively slow, and generally lack midslots to fit defensive web and scrams especially if you fit MJD. Yes those fits are tough to fight, but there are plenty of counters, and that method of fighting is hardly limited to BCs, in fact BCs are particularly bad at it. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Daemun Khanid Sanctus Imperialis 199	Posted - 2015.11.22 02:35:22 - [327] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: Daemun Khanid wrote: You simply seem to fail to grasp the entire point and dont have experience with slippery fits. A fit isnt gimped when its doing precisely what its meant to do. I have actually fought and killed plenty of slippery fits, I wouldn't consider any BC to be very slippery. Try fighting a phantasm or nano nightmare with defensive webs and scram, or T3 with fuel catalyst and oversized AB and you'll see what a proper slippery fit is. BCs are one of the least capable classes of ship to be able to fit as you suggest. They don't get that much benefit from an oversized AB, and are natively slow, and generally lack midslots to fit defensive web and scrams especially if you fit MJD. Yes those fits are tough to fight, but there are plenty of counters, and that method of fighting is hardly limited to BCs, in fact BCs are particularly bad at it. And a bc will achieve the same thing at a tiny fraction of the cost. A ship that can apply 700 dps to anything in web range (frigs included) and mjd out as soon as anything threatening lands on grid are a pita. Oversided abs are used on some fits but for the most part its just about letting your target come to you, nuking them off the field then hitting the mjd and jumping to a safe. Daemun of Khanid
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 652	Posted - 2015.11.22 12:48:32 - [328] - Quote Daemun Khanid wrote: Moac Tor wrote: Daemun Khanid wrote: Moac Tor wrote: Daemun Khanid wrote: Your counters are misguided. If it were that easy it wouldnt be an issue and your still missing the point. Its not about struggling its about a class/fit that needs a more appropriate counter. Hics are designed to catch things. This change makes them viable at doing so in lowsec. Back on the subject of the actual thread, anything that forces ppl to actually stay and fight is a good thing. My counters are tried and tested, and I never said it was easy, but then it shouldn't be fighting a BC in a frigate. But no matter, I am happy if you overlook this as it means more easy targets who don't fully understand the PvP mechanics. But anyway to the point of the thread, as for forcing people to stay and fight, what will actually happen as pointed out and as evidenced from tests on Singularity is that the HIC will kite you at range relatively risk free until either he kills you or backup arrives. Then your counters are tried and tested against poorly fitted bc's for the job. Keeping you held down until others can get on target is kinda the point. Interceptors, interdictors and hics all serve that specific purpose. I'll just say that a single svipul can very easily single handedly hold down any BC if you know what you are doing, the only real problem will be ECM. The same logic can easily be applied to a standard frigate although it is more risky. Like I said, BCs are very weak against smaller ships in the current meta. It is against cruisers and above where they start to become more useful. A single svipul in scram range will be double neuted, double webbed and dead or if its a 10mn fit will be forced off grid if it can do so before it hits zero cap. Just ask ole stitch there, he's been posting in this thread and enjoys flying bc's in lowsec to great effectiveness. In fact i have an onyx sitting in hanger that I mistakenly fit out months ago specifically to catch his bc's before realizing that the scripted disruptor doesnt shut down mjd's. Just to reiterate, I'm not talking about standard fleet fit bc's. I'm talking about fits that are very specifically setup to blap the crap out of targets of opportunity and escape with little risk of getting held down long enough to die. Stealth bombers, stabbed dessis and slippery fit bc's are the norm for mission runners and plex farmers in fw and anything that will make catching them easier is a +1 in my book. My fits were designed to counter your frig gangs that were risk averse and just wanted to kite. I was forcing you to commit to me, by coming in to scram. You had options available to counter this, but insisted of bringing more disruptors than scrams. You could counter me a number of ways, and in fact did. Neuts, being the biggest counter because most of those fits had no cap boosters. You could have brought an arazu with a scram, but instead i'd get lach's with a point. You in fact quite frequently would bring out a rook to counter my lone unlinked BC with your gang of 10 guys or more (which occasionally had links). I would then bring out my fleet phoon with over 80 SS to counter your rook. Those fits i made specifically for survival in lowsec against the blob. This was the era of almost every gang in LS having a garmur/orthrus. There is no countering or slingshotting a garmur/orthrus when you're in a BC, so MJD was the only viable counter so i could kill a couple scram tackle and leave. Sorry, if i didn't just sit there and let you kill me. The tools were available to counter me, but your corp insisted on bringing more and more things with points or kitey ships like nomens. So, i find it ironic that you're saying my fits were risk averse, when they were fit specifically with countering your risk averse gangs that were all kitey frigs/cruisers with 1 or 2 scram tackle thrown in. Its not my fault your gang did not bring more hard tackle. The other reason I made those fits, is they would still survive against linked ships. You and me both know that there are tons of people in LS using links on everything. Hell i just fought a linked comet the last time i was in LS. The MJD/AB BC's i made were a direct counter to those people, and the best i could manage without myself getting links. Now, i'm not horribly opposed to the HIC change, except for the fact they will be on every gate camp, and there is no escaping that. Sure, one lands on field, OK, time to make sure i don't get within 40km of you. I warp through a gate with 1 on the other side, well i'm boned. Can't MJD, can't MWD, if i had an AB i'd just get blobbed by the rest of the gang. I would expect dead terrorists to start fielding these immediately once their released. So i guess have fun dealing with their camps in that area. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 331	Posted - 2015.11.22 14:06:03 - [329] - Quote Stitch Kaneland wrote: My fits were designed to counter your frig gangs that were risk averse and just wanted to kite. I was forcing you to commit to me, by coming in to scram. But a BC should not have any options and should be forced to just sit their and get pinned by a 10 man risk averse frigate gang... Well luckily now they can if they bring a HIC. No more MJDing BCs that force an opponent to come into scram range, and no more epic solo battleship videos from the likes of skilled pilots such as Big Miker and others. Normality resumed and and we can get back to the relaxing and unskilled business of risk averse long range kitey gangs. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Daemun Khanid Sanctus Imperialis 200	Posted - 2015.11.23 00:03:28 - [330] - Quote Don't get me wrong stitch, it wasnt an insult. I was just noting that you used the slippery bc's to great effectiveness. As for our fits against you we always tried to bring scrams because we knew you had mjd, you just ussually killed the tackle before we could get the dps on field. Thats when I started bringing the ecm to keep the tackle safe. I have to say though we never have gangs of 10. I wish we did. More commonly we fly 4-5 and none of us have links. I'm also the only person in the group I fly with that flies ships other than Amarr. All my fleet mates are PIE loyalists and have strict rules about only flying golden fleet. I'm sure you dealt w ppl that did, but it wasnt us. Nothing but respect, at least you come looking for fights. Daemun of Khanid

Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 654	Posted - 2015.11.23 14:44:06 - [331] - Quote Daemun Khanid wrote: Don't get me wrong stitch, it wasnt an insult. I was just noting that you used the slippery bc's to great effectiveness. As for our fits against you we always tried to bring scrams because we knew you had mjd, you just ussually killed the tackle before we could get the dps on field. Thats when I started bringing the ecm to keep the tackle safe. I have to say though we never have gangs of 10. I wish we did. More commonly we fly 4-5 and none of us have links. I'm also the only person in the group I fly with that flies ships other than Amarr. All my fleet mates are PIE loyalists and have strict rules about only flying golden fleet. I'm sure you dealt w ppl that did, but it wasnt us. Nothing but respect, at least you come looking for fights. Understood, but you are saying these super scram HICs are required to catch my "risk averse" fits, when they were made directly to counter risk averse gangs. You had to commit heavy scram tackle to hold me, not 1-2 scram tackle. Bringing another BC would do the trick in most cases. Infact a prophecy would be perfect, as their brick tanked and you could slap a few medium neuts on it and id be done. Instead i'd get t3ds or t1 frigs, and yes it would absolutely murder those ships as it was designed to do. Basically, it would be like me complaining about a gang who had a curse, that their curse was too effective at its role. So therefore we should get a highslot module to turn off neuts. This change is not a requirement to catch the slippery BCs. Your gang's unwillingness to ship into something outside of amarr RP was the reason you struggled against my fits. My apologies in regards to gang size, maybe your specific corp had 4-5 guys, but the other amaar guys in arzad would join in, as i know i was dodging 10-15 guys when i was in my phoon a few times. Or if i killed 1-2 WT in ezzara id get 5-6 more guys who would show up. So it wasnt uncommon for me to be trying to avoid and separate all of you. Now, that being said, in a non gate camp scenario, i think this HICs will be a good addition and add new tactics both in a solo and gang role. But the oppressiveness of a 30km+ scram on a gate camp is going to make roaming/living in LS an absolute nightmare. You and I both know the pirates that live in that area will abuse the hell out of it. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 331	Posted - 2015.11.23 15:03:43 - [332] - Quote Stitch Kaneland wrote: This change is not a requirement to catch the slippery BCs. Your gang's unwillingness to ship into something outside of amarr RP was the reason you struggled against my fits. The irony of Daemun's point is that this change won't actually have any affect whatsoever on 'true' slippery fits, in fact they will become much more dominant in the current meta as an oversized afterburner is not affected by the HIC long scram. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Daemun Khanid Sanctus Imperialis 200	Posted - 2015.11.23 15:59:09 - [333] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: Stitch Kaneland wrote: This change is not a requirement to catch the slippery BCs. Your gang's unwillingness to ship into something outside of amarr RP was the reason you struggled against my fits. The irony of Daemun's point is that this change won't actually have any affect whatsoever on 'true' slippery fits, in fact they will become much more dominant in the current meta as an oversized afterburner is not affected by the HIC long scram. Ships like your anti frigate BC which as you pointed out is relatively easy to counter will be replaced with ships such with oversized and bonused afterburners which are MUCH more difficult to counter. Although the truth is most people do not understand PvP mechanics well enough to use slippery fits and will probably just bring an 'easy mode' HIC with long scram and MWD. You still just dont get it. The bc's are just one example. Obviously a hic isnt going to be the answer to every slippery ship that comes along, the point is it gives the hic an actual use in lowsec. As right now it has absolutely none. And lowsec is crawling with stabbed farmers, and a ship that can help stop them is a good thing. Personally I'd just prefer that ccp lock stealth bombers out of missions and lock anything with stabs out of plexes but I dont see that happening so a 100point scram will at least give us another tool to work with. As for these things camping gates I'm not particularly concerned. The only ships at risk will be solo mjd bc mission farmers. A decent gate camp already has enough points and webs to make escape impossible so a hic doesnt change anything. It just means a single cruiser can keep you from activating your mjd from longer range until another ship w scram can get in range. Any decent gang will be sending a scout ahead so for normal groups it doesnt have any impact. Theres nothing about your fit that serves to counter risk adverse gains stitch. A risk adverse pilot doesnt try to kill a bc w a frigate, they upship to archons. Lol.... I laugh but its true. All your fit does is serve as bait for wt's that have the nerve to go after any enemy they can find and then try to pick off the smaller ships while trying to preserve your chance at escape. Any time we brought out a bc you simply left field and warped to a safe. If you really wanted to catch "risk adverse kiters" you be in a solo frig catching kiters. You get props for coming after fights and forcing us to counter your specific fit but in the end its still a bait ship that relies on unwary targets charging in on you unaware of your fit. Daemun of Khanid
Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 331	Posted - 2015.11.23 16:26:08 - [334] - Quote Daemun Khanid wrote: [--stuff--- Which part of his fit is very easy to counter already without a HIC do you not understand? Stitch even says this himself, all you needed to do was bring a prophecy or harbinger if your amarr loyalist's and you would have destroyed him. Heck he didn't even have any cap defense so you could have just bought a curse, pilgrim or sentinel, once his cap is gone he cannot activate the MJD or much else. Seriously, BCs are not particularly powerful at the moment, and the MJD is just a small tool in the BC and BS arsenal that gives them a couple of get outs in edge scenarios such as kiting frigates, in a lot of situations it is useless and not worth the mid slot. It is hardly the all powerful module that requires a direct hard counter. Again you probably will claim we are being stupid and don't know what we are talking about without bothering to actually think and change your blinkered mindset. Your too fixated on your frigates and not looking at the wider picture here. Daemun Khanid wrote: the point is it gives the hic an actual use in lowsec. I can agree with you here, the HIC needs some changes, but the point about the 37.5km scram and turning into a solo monster is where we disagree. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 654	Posted - 2015.11.23 16:30:22 - [335] - Quote Daemun Khanid wrote: As for these things camping gates I'm not particularly concerned. The only ships at risk will be solo mjd bc mission farmers. A decent gate camp already has enough points and webs to make escape impossible so a hic doesnt change anything. It just means a single cruiser can keep you from activating your mjd from longer range until another ship w scram can get in range. Any decent gang will be sending a scout ahead so for normal groups it doesnt have any impact. Theres nothing about your fit that serves to counter risk adverse gains stitch. A risk adverse pilot doesnt try to kill a bc w a frigate, they upship to archons. Lol.... I laugh but its true. All your fit does is serve as bait for wt's that have the nerve to go after any enemy they can find and then try to pick off the smaller ships while trying to preserve your chance at escape. Any time we brought out a bc you simply left field and warped to a safe. If you really wanted to catch "risk adverse kiters" you be in a solo frig catching kiters. You get props for coming after fights and forcing us to counter your specific fit but in the end its still a bait ship that relies on unwary targets charging in on you unaware of your fit. I think you are vastly underestimating what groups will do with these HICs. A linked proteus/lachesis (with all skills at 5) with pimp scram will be around 27km IIRC. A HIC with a t1 WDFG and HIC4 will be 28-29km. A sebod HIC with a gang could easily catch frigs/cruisers. This wont affect ONLY BCs, but anything that isnt an inty or cloaky. I could dodge gate camps fairly easily in my BC. Activate MJD immediately on decloak and OH mwd away from gang and in most cases all their points and long webs meant nothing. Ive even done this to WT camps. Ive also never seen mission BCs, only stealth bombers. My fit doesnt directly counter risk averse gangs. It forces them to come into scram range if they want a kill. Now itll be nomens and HICs. So instead of actually committing to a fight, you will still continue flying kitey gangs, but bring a HIC along so you dont have to commit. Again, being risk averse. You would bring a BC, but again there would be 5-10 guys (maybe not all your corp, but part of the fleet) and a falcon with that "1 BC". As mentioned previously, you'll have to forgive me if i dont just offer myself as a free kill to a gang that outnumbers me, has EWAR and might be using links. You could have had 2-3 scram frigs with webs and once they landed, warped a BC on top. Or a navy aug. Which you guys used against me at one point which actually killed me with cause it was a tanky SOB with a scram. Having a 30km+ scram does nothing but reinforce risk averse kitey meta. Especially against larger ships. The MJD "slippery BC" was meant to bring ships in to brawl which is what BCs are good at. At the same time giving me the option to MJD away from all the cancerous garmurs/orthrus that were around. There is nothing worse than being plinked away by 150dps for 3min in a BC with no way to counter. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2402	Posted - 2015.11.23 18:09:18 - [336] - Quote I just finished training HIC this week-end (started before those announcement) so can I look forward to having a WTFPWNMOBILE or do I still have to know how to play?
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 654	Posted - 2015.11.23 18:14:29 - [337] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: I just finished training HIC this week-end (started before those announcement) so can I look forward to having a WTFPWNMOBILE or do I still have to know how to play? As long as you dont go ramming people with your 30km+ scram, you should be ok. I too have trained into HICs (following the announcements). Might as well abuse it, like everyone else. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
Rmage Gemmell Friends of Mache Foundation 1	Posted - 2015.11.23 18:29:55 - [338] - Quote Stitch Kaneland wrote: Got to test out the devoter on SiSi and i believe its going to be a beast. 500+ dps on something with ultimate range control is pretty nasty. I look forward to abusing it on tranquility. Had a geddon neut me while using the WDFG and didnt seem like much of an issue out at uber scram range. Single medium cap booster was more than enough to keep tackle and rep running. Since neuts have falloff now, its not all that hard to keep them in falloff and basically brush off a medium neuts worth of discharge. So the whole neuting a HIC out as a counter doesnt seem viable unless youre flying a curse or bhaal. Wont be **** i can do in say a BC. Cant MJD away from it, cant neut it, wont have the dps to kill it at that range. So short of putting 100mn ABs on everything id say bigger ship roaming will die. Welcome to the new era of Instalock HIC gate campers. Gate camping buff, big ship nerf (cause they really needed it, you know). Combined with the MJD destroyer, these things will be everywhere. Pretty much. This is 90% going on TQ. When CCP puts it on the forum like this and does not post for a while, it's a passive-aggressive way of saying 'it's coming, talk to the hand'. 12 months or so after it goes live, they will make a 'focused group' to make it seem that something is done. :) Started training HICS too.
Daemun Khanid Sanctus Imperialis 200	Posted - 2015.11.23 19:18:20 - [339] - Quote Stitch Kaneland wrote: Daemun Khanid wrote: As for these things camping gates I'm not particularly concerned. The only ships at risk will be solo mjd bc mission farmers. A decent gate camp already has enough points and webs to make escape impossible so a hic doesnt change anything. It just means a single cruiser can keep you from activating your mjd from longer range until another ship w scram can get in range. Any decent gang will be sending a scout ahead so for normal groups it doesnt have any impact. Theres nothing about your fit that serves to counter risk adverse gains stitch. A risk adverse pilot doesnt try to kill a bc w a frigate, they upship to archons. Lol.... I laugh but its true. All your fit does is serve as bait for wt's that have the nerve to go after any enemy they can find and then try to pick off the smaller ships while trying to preserve your chance at escape. Any time we brought out a bc you simply left field and warped to a safe. If you really wanted to catch "risk adverse kiters" you be in a solo frig catching kiters. You get props for coming after fights and forcing us to counter your specific fit but in the end its still a bait ship that relies on unwary targets charging in on you unaware of your fit. I think you are vastly underestimating what groups will do with these HICs. A linked proteus/lachesis (with all skills at 5) with pimp scram will be around 27km IIRC. A HIC with a t1 WDFG and HIC4 will be 28-29km. A sebod HIC with a gang could easily catch frigs/cruisers. This wont affect ONLY BCs, but anything that isnt an inty or cloaky. I could dodge gate camps fairly easily in my BC. Activate MJD immediately on decloak and OH mwd away from gang and in most cases all their points and long webs meant nothing. Ive even done this to WT camps. Ive also never seen mission BCs, only stealth bombers. My fit doesnt directly counter risk averse gangs. It forces them to come into scram range if they want a kill. Now itll be nomens and HICs. So instead of actually committing to a fight, you will still continue flying kitey gangs, but bring a HIC along so you dont have to commit. Again, being risk averse. You would bring a BC, but again there would be 5-10 guys (maybe not all your corp, but part of the fleet) and a falcon with that "1 BC". As mentioned previously, you'll have to forgive me if i dont just offer myself as a free kill to a gang that outnumbers me, has EWAR and might be using links. You could have had 2-3 scram frigs with webs and once they landed, warped a BC on top. Or a navy aug. Which you guys used against me at one point which actually killed me with cause it was a tanky SOB with a scram. Having a 30km+ scram does nothing but reinforce risk averse kitey meta. Especially against larger ships. The MJD "slippery BC" was meant to bring ships in to brawl which is what BCs are good at. At the same time giving me the option to MJD away from all the cancerous garmurs/orthrus that were around. There is nothing worse than being plinked away by 150dps for 3min in a BC with no way to counter. You forget to mention that you also sit at long range (100-150k) off beacon in large plexes in a safed direction so that anything like the tanky maller or prophecy cant get to you before you can escape. Which is why we had to start using mwd scram frigates with rook support. A hic with long scram means we have a chance of landing a larger ship on grid and tackle you before you can escape without having to use a speedy frig with ecm for defense. How does a hic reinforce a kite meta? If anything it counters a kite meta by giving you something to reach out and shut down kiters with. Daemun of Khanid
Daemun Khanid Sanctus Imperialis 200	Posted - 2015.11.23 19:31:29 - [340] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: Daemun Khanid wrote: You still just dont get it. The bc's are just one example. Which part of his fit is very easy to counter already without a HIC did you not understand? Stitch even says this himself, all you needed to do was bring a prophecy or harbinger if your amarr loyalist's and you would have destroyed him. Heck he didn't even have any cap defense so you could have just bought a curse, pilgrim or sentinel, once his cap is gone he cannot activate the MJD or much else. Seriously, BCs are not particularly powerful at the moment, and the MJD is just a small tool in the BC and BS arsenal that gives them a couple of get outs in edge scenarios such as kiting frigates, in a lot of situations it is useless and not worth the mid slot. It is hardly the all powerful module that requires a direct hard counter. The whole gist of the argument has been that this will adversely affect BSs and BCs, all the other stuff you mentioned is irrelevant to the point which myself and others are pointing out, so it is not that we don't get it, it is that we are looking at it from a different angle. The kind of ships that deserve more to be hit are the type of kitey frigates that you fly and they will also be hit hard by the HIC long scram. If you think taking on a BC is difficult wait until your gang goes against one of these HIC's. Again you probably will claim we are being stupid and don't know what we are talking about without changing your blinkered mindset. Your too fixated on your frigates and not looking at the wider picture here. Daemun Khanid wrote: the point is it gives the hic an actual use in lowsec. I can agree with you here, the HIC needs some changes, but the point about the 37.5km scram and turning into a solo monster is where we disagree. Again, you don't understand the situation and throw out counters that are not effective. As I mentioned in the previous post, a BC can position himself so that large ships that would be an effective counter (like the curse) cannot reach him before he can escape. Hence the need for fast tackle frigates... but it's pointless trying to explain it to you because you think that developing a counter is as easy as EFT. Tactics are the bigger challenge and a long scram hic will provide a new tool as a tactical counter. Will it be super dangerous for kitey frigs? Absolutely, and I'm all for that. Not only does it provide a tool for controlling the Kite meta it also provides a tool that can be used in the place of the previously used kite ships. I personally HATE that speed is essentially king, but it quite simply is, and something like a long range scram to counter that trend is a step in the right direction imo. The whole oversized AB fit is an issue unto itself and I would REALLY like to see CCP limit prop mods to the appropriate ship classes. There are numerous situations where a oversized ab fit ship simply cannot be beat/held down for the kill in even odds. Daemun of Khanid

Tex Raynor The High and Mighty Carebear Abortion Clinic 20	Posted - 2015.11.23 20:03:10 - [341] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Suitonia wrote: A separate script that has reduced range (Maybe 40% of normal) would probably make this a bit more balanced. 37.5km Scrams on T2 HIC is incredibly powerful, and actually stronger than best faction linked heating Lachesis, obviously HICs can't get reps like a Lach can but they still have huge buffers and they will be incredibly problematic for small gangs, especially those without links. Yeah we've got this in our back pocket. We want to see how this works out, and if its too OP we'll introduce a new scrambling script with a shorter range. As a member of a corp who lives in a wh with a static null connection, I would like to share my opinion and observations on the matter. We are no strangers to fighting outnumbered and the ships we use try to keep a flexibility for adapting to a quickly changing battlefield. Bonuses which we tend to favor include bubble immunity, nanos, neuts, mjds and sustained local tanks. Nevertheless, the risk assessement to decide if we let our heavier assets get tackled depend on an estimate wether we can kill off the hero tacklers before their friends get a chance to overwhelm us. This tactic means our ships must also try to look as enticing as possible which means we are best to avoid bringing ecm or logi since they tend to force either of two extremes.. massive blob or deagression. The best fights are when the enemy bring ships which, depending on their fits, can mean total loss but the risk is worth taking. So with this in mind, there are obviously a couple tactics used by the enemy which severly reduce the likelihood we decide to engage, such as massive ecm, logi or a capital fleet hotdrop. 37.5 km scrams on battleship tanks are difficult to asses since for our way of fighting, they can sometimes be more of a deterrent than an enemy carrier hotdropping... they basically act almost as a lachesis and huggin combined but with more tank than both added up. That being said, we can fight them off using the universal ecm, damps, extreme neut pressure or logi, but this may have the adverse effect of causing the enemy to run away. On the flipside though, those long range scrams will helps us deal with the cancerous orthus meta so I guess there is a silver lining.
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 656	Posted - 2015.11.23 20:36:43 - [342] - Quote Daemun Khanid wrote: Stitch Kaneland wrote: Daemun Khanid wrote: As for these things camping gates I'm not particularly concerned. The only ships at risk will be solo mjd bc mission farmers. A decent gate camp already has enough points and webs to make escape impossible so a hic doesnt change anything. It just means a single cruiser can keep you from activating your mjd from longer range until another ship w scram can get in range. Any decent gang will be sending a scout ahead so for normal groups it doesnt have any impact. Theres nothing about your fit that serves to counter risk adverse gains stitch. A risk adverse pilot doesnt try to kill a bc w a frigate, they upship to archons. Lol.... I laugh but its true. All your fit does is serve as bait for wt's that have the nerve to go after any enemy they can find and then try to pick off the smaller ships while trying to preserve your chance at escape. Any time we brought out a bc you simply left field and warped to a safe. If you really wanted to catch "risk adverse kiters" you be in a solo frig catching kiters. You get props for coming after fights and forcing us to counter your specific fit but in the end its still a bait ship that relies on unwary targets charging in on you unaware of your fit. I think you are vastly underestimating what groups will do with these HICs. A linked proteus/lachesis (with all skills at 5) with pimp scram will be around 27km IIRC. A HIC with a t1 WDFG and HIC4 will be 28-29km. A sebod HIC with a gang could easily catch frigs/cruisers. This wont affect ONLY BCs, but anything that isnt an inty or cloaky. I could dodge gate camps fairly easily in my BC. Activate MJD immediately on decloak and OH mwd away from gang and in most cases all their points and long webs meant nothing. Ive even done this to WT camps. Ive also never seen mission BCs, only stealth bombers. My fit doesnt directly counter risk averse gangs. It forces them to come into scram range if they want a kill. Now itll be nomens and HICs. So instead of actually committing to a fight, you will still continue flying kitey gangs, but bring a HIC along so you dont have to commit. Again, being risk averse. You would bring a BC, but again there would be 5-10 guys (maybe not all your corp, but part of the fleet) and a falcon with that "1 BC". As mentioned previously, you'll have to forgive me if i dont just offer myself as a free kill to a gang that outnumbers me, has EWAR and might be using links. You could have had 2-3 scram frigs with webs and once they landed, warped a BC on top. Or a navy aug. Which you guys used against me at one point which actually killed me with cause it was a tanky SOB with a scram. Having a 30km+ scram does nothing but reinforce risk averse kitey meta. Especially against larger ships. The MJD "slippery BC" was meant to bring ships in to brawl which is what BCs are good at. At the same time giving me the option to MJD away from all the cancerous garmurs/orthrus that were around. There is nothing worse than being plinked away by 150dps for 3min in a BC with no way to counter. You forget to mention that you also sit at long range (100-150k) off beacon in large plexes in a safed direction so that anything like the tanky maller or prophecy cant get to you before you can escape. Which is why we had to start using mwd scram frigates with rook support. A hic with long scram means we have a chance of landing a larger ship on grid to tackle you before you can escape without having to use a speedy frig with ecm for defense. And hey, if you want to stop risk adverse kitey frigs... here's your new toy. Don't need that MJD BC anymore if you use a HIC. Instead of worrying about how something new will effect what you are accustomed to flying think about how you can use what's new to accomplish what you want. In all honestly though, cancerous garmurs/orthrus? I see maybe 1-2 garmurs a week and almost never see an orthrus unless it's a massive neut gang throwing bling faction cruisers around. GreasePayne's linked slicer is a more common and dangerous threat Which is why you use the tools at your disposal to gather intel on gate camps before you go jumping around with impunity. Chat channels, dotlan, in game maps and scouts.There's nothing in the FW rule book that says a warzone should be able to be safely traversed by a solo pilot who can't be bothered to watch where he's going. I hate gate camps as much as the next guy but in reality they aren't that hard to avoid if you aren't lazy about it. I'd rather jump into a gate camp full of hic's than a load of smart bombers any day. How does a hic reinforce a kite meta? If anything it counters a kite meta by giving you something to reach out and shut down kiters with. When you have dscan invisible rooks and curses landing on you, its best to know at 100km, instead of 0. You never saw garm/orthrus because it is the amarr flying them, such as rude x or radzak87 going 11k/s in linked garmurs. or tikktokk in his linked orthrus. Easy to say you never fight them when its your own team flying them ;) Lach or arazu are still good counters that if you line up a celestial could still land close enough to me and distract me with some throw away tackle. Im well aware of how to spot gatecamps. Quite tired of the random amarr camp or DT/periphery. So i mainly roam null now. I do intend to use these HICs on my own and abuse. Ive got a nice 500dps devoter lined up. In terms of HICs reinforcing the kite meta. Grab a couple nomens and a devoter. Devoter scrams from 30km+ away, nomens zoom around to finish up. No risk. Yes they can be used to counter kiters, but they can also be used to push it further and fly almost risk free. Its basically having a linked/pimped lach (with more range) for a fraction of the cost, and not needing links. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
Naoru Kozan Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 103	Posted - 2015.11.29 01:22:39 - [343] - Quote After playing with these in EFT all I can say is "Damn this gonna be fun!". The new HICs will make some of the best kite boats around lol.
Daemun Khanid Sanctus Imperialis 200	Posted - 2015.11.29 17:53:40 - [344] - Quote All debate about whether the scram range is a good thing or not(I still think it is) how about a mwd penalty? Say 80% reduction in mwd speed bonus to the script. That would reduce a mwd fit Hic to ab speeds when the scripted disruptor is active allowing it to at least keep up w mwd fit ships that it has scrammed while preventing it from being a mega kite fit against ab or mwd fit ships. Should allow the long scram to function as an effective tactical tool without making the ship rediculously difficult to catch. If the med speed penalty stacks then it would also effectively imobilize fits that attempt to use multiple disruption fields in the high slots to keep entire fleets locked down. Daemun of Khanid
Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 332	Posted - 2015.11.29 23:56:55 - [345] - Quote Daemun Khanid wrote: All debate about whether the scram range is a good thing or not aside (I still think it is) how about a mwd penalty? It is good to see you have come around in the end Daemun. This is pretty much what I suggested needed to be implemented a couple of pages back. Moac Tor wrote: Or keep the scram range but make it so that the HIC cannot activate a propulsion module with it active. That would still be a heavy nerf to kitey ships without it negatively impacting everything else. I'd be happy with an 80% speed nerf also. The main thing to me is that the HIC doesn't turn into a solo kitey ship but at the same time maintaining its role as an excellent primary tackling ship. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Daemun Khanid Sanctus Imperialis 200	Posted - 2015.11.30 01:40:03 - [346] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: Daemun Khanid wrote: All debate about whether the scram range is a good thing or not aside (I still think it is) how about a mwd penalty? It is good to see you have come around in the end Daemun. This is pretty much what I suggested needed to be implemented a couple of pages back. Moac Tor wrote: Or keep the scram range but make it so that the HIC cannot activate a propulsion module with it active. That would still be a heavy nerf to kitey ships without it negatively impacting everything else. I'd be happy with an 80% speed nerf also. The main thing to me is that the HIC doesn't turn into a solo kitey ship but at the same time maintaining its role as an excellent primary tackling ship. I wouldnt really call it coming around :). I still think that reducing the range of the scram with a second script is the wrong way to go. An interdictor should be able to do its job and stop things from running. That doesnt mean it should become an un-catchable kite in the progress but it also needs to be able to reasonably keep up or its just too easily negated. I never meant to imply that it should. I'd need to look at the numbers more closely but a reduction in tank might even be a reasonable change with the new scram changes. Something in between hacs and recons if they are as some have said capable of exteme tanks while still maintaining other capabilities. Recons for example have powerful tools at their disposal and (generally, aside from bait tank fits) they take a hit against their ehp levels in relation to other T2 cruisers. Anyway, point being, i think the long scram is just too valuable of an asset to throw away for a class that is supposed to fill the role of stopping other ships and that other steps should instead be taken to ensure balance. Daemun of Khanid
Strange Shadow Hedion University Amarr Empire 66	Posted - 2015.12.01 04:33:51 - [347] - Quote I kinda disagree about speed nerf application, it looks too complicated to me. I would outright disable any prop mod the very second the generator is activated, scripted or not. It is powerful distortion field, why source's ship should be unaffected. But it distorts warp and MJD effects, it desnt applies web. But atm the effect applied to the bubbling HIC is a plain 90% web, seems too complicated and illogical to me. So just disable all prop mods (AB/MWD), as if HIC scramms himself too as soon as it scrams/bubble somebody else. This will leave it with its base speed, +maybe some nano if you wish to sacrifice the tank. Should be enough to keep up with capitals, not enough for kitey stuff. Can also adjust HIC base speed too to keep it sane. Also i would reduce base scram/tackle range to like 30km, and added 20% bonus for overheat. So still same 36km scram range when heated, but it burns your guns fast. This would allow wider gameplay choices i think, and toned ranged scram down a bit.
Budrick3 Quantum Wolves 154	Posted - 2015.12.02 17:21:51 - [348] - Quote Aiyshimin wrote: So many posts basically saying "omg I can't kite in my OP linked kiting autism chariot with absolute impunity and feel elite anymore if the enemies have a HIC" Yes, essentially if there is a hic, you will not be able to kite. Thus removing this sort of game play completely from the battlefield. Why would you want to remove this sort of gameplay completely. They are already getting rid of off grid boosting. There are a few of us in the game who don't like to blob, and like to see how much our skill fairs against the F1 monkeys.
Budrick3 Quantum Wolves 156	Posted - 2015.12.02 17:35:49 - [349] - Quote As a person who solo's quite frequently, I would implore you to please add a Scrambling script with dramatically less range. This will just remove the gorilla style kiting warfare completely, and make Minmatar just useless. Their whole race predominately focuses on kiting ships, and you are going to negate an entire race's chance of surviving. And if someone disagrees with me, please compare the Vagabond or the stabber to their equal class, and tell me that they have a chance if scrammed @ 36 KM with one of these in the enemy fleet. We will always have to run. (If we can due to some sensor boosting HIC sitting on a gate.)
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 673	Posted - 2015.12.02 18:13:10 - [350] - Quote Budrick3 wrote: As a person who solo's quite frequently, I would implore you to please add a Scrambling script with dramatically less range. This will just remove the gorilla style kiting warfare completely, and make Minmatar just useless. Their whole race predominately focuses on kiting ships, and you are going to negate an entire race's chance of surviving. And if someone disagrees with me, please compare the Vagabond or the stabber to their equal class, and tell me that they have a chance if scrammed @ 36 KM with one of these in the enemy fleet. We will always have to run. (If we can due to some sensor boosting HIC sitting on a gate.) Being that this is going live in 6 days, i doubt there will be any change. Train into a devoter/onyx now and abuse the mechanic like everyone else will. Maybe if it turns into HICS: Online, CCP will nerf the base speed by 11 m/s and then lower damage by 5% and then finally drop the scram range. I mean it took 3-4 tweaks to topple the ishtar off its throne. These will probably recieve the same nerf treatment. Looks like you'll need to dust off that 100mn AB vagabond. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Danmal Proioxis Assault Force Exodus. 31	Posted - 2015.12.04 19:17:20 - [351] - Quote Kendarr wrote: Look at all the kiting players crying! The only thing you "elite pvp" masturbators hate more than 'blobs' are gatecamps. 31KM Scram range, YES PLEASE. The first one to shout hooray at potentially fewer rather than more ways to play the game is, ladies and gentleman, a goon. Surprise.
Michal Jita Lords Of The Universe 27	Posted - 2015.12.05 12:31:54 - [352] - Quote While on topic of making adjustments to Warp Distruption Generators can you look into: - deploying the warp distruption field gives you a weapon timer preventing from jumping/docking etc, surely this should also give 15 minutes log off timer, it is inconsistent - capital ships can't jump gates when they have scripted point on them which is consistent with not being able to jump to beacon, but why are they allowed to use wormholes, can we not stop this from happening as well? - can you look at if its possible to prevent subcapitals from using stargates while scripted point is active on them - if point 3 is possible can scripted point prevent from using WH on subcapitals as well?
Neuntausend GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 409	Posted - 2015.12.05 14:15:43 - [353] - Quote Anthar Thebess wrote: My Little Friend wrote: How about a bubble that disables interdiction nullification. LOL What will be the point of having nullified ship then? can still warp through regular bubbles. you rarely see a HIC on a gate, most people use dictors or anchor-bubbles.
Neuntausend GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 409	Posted - 2015.12.05 14:22:25 - [354] - Quote Budrick3 wrote: Yes, essentially if there is a hic, you will not be able to kite. Thus removing this sort of game play completely from the battlefield. Why would you want to remove this sort of gameplay completely. They are already getting rid of off grid boosting. There are a few of us in the game who don't like to blob, and like to see how much our skill fairs against the F1 monkeys. Jeez, it's 37.5km, any closer is point blank. In a large scale fight, you just blap the Hictors while they can't get reps, in a med-scale fight not every fleet will want to bring a HIC and solo you simply don't engage a HIC. Problem solved.
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 682	Posted - 2015.12.05 14:57:57 - [355] - Quote Neuntausend wrote: Budrick3 wrote: Yes, essentially if there is a hic, you will not be able to kite. Thus removing this sort of game play completely from the battlefield. Why would you want to remove this sort of gameplay completely. They are already getting rid of off grid boosting. There are a few of us in the game who don't like to blob, and like to see how much our skill fairs against the F1 monkeys. Jeez, it's 37.5km, any closer is point blank. In a large scale fight, you just blap the Hictors while they can't get reps, in a med-scale fight not every fleet will want to bring a HIC and solo you simply don't engage a HIC. Problem solved. Point range is 24km, i fail to see how something under 37km is considered point blank (maybe in a fleet setting). 24km would still be considered kiting territory. Not to say im defending kiting, but its a bit of a stretch to say below 37km is point blank range. You should say, "in medium scale fights, not every fleet will want to bring a HIC under current mechanics". The new HIC scrams have more range than a pimp fit, linked arazu/lach. Every gang (except microgangs) and gate camp is going to have one if the FC has a brain. As for solo, yes, I just "wont" engage that resebo'd HIC on the gate camp. That will surely allow me to escape if i never engage him with his 30-42km scram that covers the whole gate. He will let me on by right? Along with the 10 other guys on gate. Dont get me wrong, i think this change will help against some of the cancer kite meta. At the same time it can also reinforce the kite meta by allowing groups not having to commit scram tackle, at which point i would consider them kiting (ironic isnt it?). Im not a fan of these being on gate camps in LS. Cant MJD, cant mwd, so short of an oversized AB, its dunk city if you find yourself on the recieving end of these gate camps. Goodbye bigger ship meta, your 400-600m/s ab speed wont help. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
Moac Tor Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation 334	Posted - 2015.12.05 15:06:28 - [356] - Quote HICs are complete BS, I have fought a few on the test server and all they do is set orbit at 30km and turn off your MWD and travel at 1400m/s + and therefore they can easily kite you. Sorry this is completely boring as it eliminates the viability of a majority of ships in the meta. If this change was intended to make PvP more one dimensional and boring then it is a resounding success, well done CCP. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Rmage Gemmell Friends of Mache Foundation 1	Posted - 2015.12.07 11:55:49 - [357] - Quote Depending on how wide the proliferation of HICS will be, this will either suck or you will see many pvp-ers just plain leave the game (many ....). Everything in this game centers on range from spawn and most of that spawning comes around a gate. 10k for webb, 9k for scram, 24k for disruptor, and guns/missiles designed around this. There are exceptions obviously. Then you bring in a set of ships that double as interceptors at cruiser level, hit almost perfectly and do more EHP damage than others. And you cannot see that the OP part here is the range of point and agility (launchers too, but still). To counter this and supers you make a ship that has loads of EHP, and cheap insane range point, enough to cover 95% of gates (the non regional ones will be covered with low SP easily). ... but it cannot receive RR and cap while doing this .... who cares ? A gatecamper only needs to be reseeboed to hell and back, and receive cap at the end of the cycles, which once started, won't stop if neuted to nothing. Once the initial tackle is done, that's it, his buddies will deal with the target. You have replaced what in the past needed 2 ships, with high SP, and lots of isk investment with 1 ship that can do the job with a meta 0 mod. But surely, this won't be abused !. This is the jump fatigue for subcaps if widely used. Forget about roaming solo or in a small gang, unless you rely a lot on even more kiting stuff, which is what the Orthrus/Garmur are for .... you have just reinforced the Mordus ships even more. And with less roams, the afk ratters (in Ishtars) of deep null will be even safer. Not to mention that one will seriously need to consider using a cloak on a roaming cruiser. :( At what point are you going to include in the AUR shop the option to pay 500 AUR to be temporarily invulnerable to the WDFG mod in a subcap ?
Anthar Thebess 1387	Posted - 2015.12.07 13:03:01 - [358] - Quote CCP Larrikin wrote: Q&A Q: Where will we get the new meta and faction modules?! A: Meta modules will drop from NPCs like current meta modules. The Faction modules will drop & be in LP stores like current Sansha and CONCORD modules. Cannot wait to see this sansha module in LP store tomorrow. Capital Remote AID Rebalance Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
Drizzd Opera Gomera Liquidate 02 9	Posted - 2015.12.07 13:57:49 - [359] - Quote Likewise for the Concord one - and I want to see some realistic pricing in the LP store .... Sisi tells 180 k LP + 100 m ISK ..
Zero Conscience DPS-K 5	Posted - 2015.12.08 11:49:35 - [360] - Quote Rmage Gemmell wrote: Depending on how wide the proliferation of HICS will be, this will either suck or you will see many pvp-ers just plain leave the game (many ....). Everything in this game centers on range from spawn and most of that spawning comes around a gate. 10k for webb, 9k for scram, 24k for disruptor, and guns/missiles designed around this. There are exceptions obviously. Then you bring in a set of ships that double as interceptors at cruiser level, hit almost perfectly and do more EHP damage than others. And you cannot see that the OP part here is the range of point and agility (launchers too, but still). To counter this and supers you make a ship that has loads of EHP, and cheap insane range point, enough to cover 95% of gates (the non regional ones will be covered with low SP easily). ... but it cannot receive RR and cap while doing this .... who cares ? A gatecamper only needs to be reseeboed to hell and back, and receive cap at the end of the cycles, which once started, won't stop if neuted to nothing. Once the initial tackle is done, that's it, his buddies will deal with the target. You have replaced what in the past needed 2 ships, with high SP, and lots of isk investment with 1 ship that can do the job with a meta 0 mod. But surely, this won't be abused !. This is the jump fatigue for subcaps if widely used. Forget about roaming solo or in a small gang, unless you rely a lot on even more kiting stuff, which is what the Orthrus/Garmur are for .... you have just reinforced the Mordus ships even more. And with less roams, the afk ratters (in Ishtars) of deep null will be even safer. Not to mention that one will seriously need to consider using a cloak on a roaming cruiser. :( QFT.

Bezdar22 Militaris Industries Northern Coalition. 18	Posted - 2015.12.10 04:39:30 - [361] - Quote this new hic change is really bad. the focus point can scam u from 30 k then the hic can still move ove 1.2 k with battleship tank while ur stuck and unable to move .whats the point of training recon class ships then . plz balance that
Daemun Khanid Black Dragon CGLM 217	Posted - 2015.12.10 06:09:41 - [362] - Quote Bezdar22 wrote: this new hic change is really bad. the focus point can scam u from 30 k then the hic can still move ove 1.2 k with battleship tank while ur stuck and unable to move .whats the point of training recon class ships then . plz balance that ECM, neuts (curse), damps. Problem solved Daemun of Khanid
Morrigan LeSante Senex Legio The OSS 784	Posted - 2015.12.10 09:03:48 - [363] - Quote Daemun Khanid wrote: Bezdar22 wrote: this new hic change is really bad. the focus point can scam u from 30 k then the hic can still move ove 1.2 k with battleship tank while ur stuck and unable to move .whats the point of training recon class ships then . plz balance that ECM, neuts (curse), damps. Problem solved I'd have went for "cloak", but those work too. What you're doing YOLOing about in an unsupported combat recon is beyond me.
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 683	Posted - 2015.12.10 16:57:37 - [364] - Quote Morrigan LeSante wrote: Daemun Khanid wrote: Bezdar22 wrote: this new hic change is really bad. the focus point can scam u from 30 k then the hic can still move ove 1.2 k with battleship tank while ur stuck and unable to move .whats the point of training recon class ships then . plz balance that ECM, neuts (curse), damps. Problem solved I'd have went for "cloak", but those work too. What you're doing YOLOing about in an unsupported combat recon is beyond me. He doesnt YOLO around solo in a recon. He normally has 3-5 other guys with him when he's in his rook/curse. Speaking of curses, now that neuts have falloff, whats curse optimal range on med neuts? Could a HIC operate scram in deep falloff of neuts with a cap injector? I know on the test server i was able to shrug off a heavy neut in my devoter. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2178	Posted - 2015.12.10 17:15:51 - [365] - Quote The HIC's do somewhat infringe on the Lachesis's long range warp scrambling role, but the Lachesis is still a useful ship. One, it still has an unparalleled long range warp disruptor (especially with links and faction modules). Two, it does not appear on d-scan, so it is great for ambushes. This second point is particularly relevant in small gang fights (less than twenty). This weekend, we had an enemy roaming gang reported with about ten Caracals, three Scimitars, and some Interceptors. Dashboard seemed accurate from the initial scouts' report. Then I got actual eyes on the gang and they had a Huginn, Lachesis, two Curses, two Rooks, and a Falcon. Quite a lot of powerful ships. Unfortunately, when we went out to fight them they executed a well-rehearsed logoffski. Bottom line, I split my time between a Heavy Interdictor and a Combat Recon. I still feel that both have a valid role. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Moac Tor Cyber Core Stain Confederation 362	Posted - 2015.12.10 22:06:44 - [366] - Quote Stitch Kaneland wrote: Morrigan LeSante wrote: Daemun Khanid wrote: Bezdar22 wrote: this new hic change is really bad. the focus point can scam u from 30 k then the hic can still move ove 1.2 k with battleship tank while ur stuck and unable to move .whats the point of training recon class ships then . plz balance that ECM, neuts (curse), damps. Problem solved I'd have went for "cloak", but those work too. What you're doing YOLOing about in an unsupported combat recon is beyond me. He doesnt YOLO around solo in a recon. He normally has 3-5 other guys with him when he's in his rook/curse. Speaking of curses, now that neuts have falloff, whats curse optimal range on med neuts? Could a HIC operate scram in deep falloff of neuts with a cap injector? I know on the test server i was able to shrug off a heavy neut in my devoter. Your looking at 24km optimal for the new compacts neuts and 30km for the T2 neuts. So it is not a hard counter. A Lachesis or arazu with damps is probaby your best bet to shut them down. The main point though is it is another skill-less ship much like the garmur and orthus. Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2178	Posted - 2015.12.11 01:46:30 - [367] - Quote Stitch Kaneland wrote: Morrigan LeSante wrote: Daemun Khanid wrote: Bezdar22 wrote: this new hic change is really bad. the focus point can scam u from 30 k then the hic can still move ove 1.2 k with battleship tank while ur stuck and unable to move .whats the point of training recon class ships then . plz balance that ECM, neuts (curse), damps. Problem solved I'd have went for "cloak", but those work too. What you're doing YOLOing about in an unsupported combat recon is beyond me. He doesnt YOLO around solo in a recon. He normally has 3-5 other guys with him when he's in his rook/curse. Speaking of curses, now that neuts have falloff, whats curse optimal range on med neuts? Could a HIC operate scram in deep falloff of neuts with a cap injector? I know on the test server i was able to shrug off a heavy neut in my devoter. My Curse with Faction Neutralizers now has 36+12 range. It had 44km range before. So, it is actually less capable than it was before the patch. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 2881	Posted - 2015.12.11 03:28:32 - [368] - Quote FT Diomedes wrote: My Curse with Faction Neutralizers now has 36+12 range. It had 44km range before. So, it is actually less capable than it was before the patch. Unless your target is at 45km, in which case it is more capable. You lost a little optimal, gained fall off ability instead. I'd call it a pretty neutral trade overall.
Morrigan LeSante Senex Legio The OSS 992	Posted - 2015.12.11 07:04:01 - [369] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: FT Diomedes wrote: My Curse with Faction Neutralizers now has 36+12 range. It had 44km range before. So, it is actually less capable than it was before the patch. Unless your target is at 45km, in which case it is more capable. You lost a little optimal, gained fall off ability instead. I'd call it a pretty neutral trade overall. Not really. It was 100% effective at 44 before, now that'll be nearer about 60% effective. I'd be mad.
Goldensaver Lom Corporation Just let it happen 428	Posted - 2015.12.11 12:21:59 - [370] - Quote Morrigan LeSante wrote: Nevyn Auscent wrote: FT Diomedes wrote: My Curse with Faction Neutralizers now has 36+12 range. It had 44km range before. So, it is actually less capable than it was before the patch. Unless your target is at 45km, in which case it is more capable. You lost a little optimal, gained fall off ability instead. I'd call it a pretty neutral trade overall. Not really. It was 100% effective at 44 before, now that'll be nearer about 60% effective. I'd be mad. Yeah, but was 0% effective at 45 while being 50% now. And still somewhat useful beyond 45k, if not as good as it m8ght be in optimal.

Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 720	Posted - 2015.12.11 16:48:50 - [371] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: Stitch Kaneland wrote: Morrigan LeSante wrote: Daemun Khanid wrote: Bezdar22 wrote: this new hic change is really bad. the focus point can scam u from 30 k then the hic can still move ove 1.2 k with battleship tank while ur stuck and unable to move .whats the point of training recon class ships then . plz balance that ECM, neuts (curse), damps. Problem solved I'd have went for "cloak", but those work too. What you're doing YOLOing about in an unsupported combat recon is beyond me. He doesnt YOLO around solo in a recon. He normally has 3-5 other guys with him when he's in his rook/curse. Speaking of curses, now that neuts have falloff, whats curse optimal range on med neuts? Could a HIC operate scram in deep falloff of neuts with a cap injector? I know on the test server i was able to shrug off a heavy neut in my devoter. Your looking at 24km optimal for the new compacts neuts and 30km for the T2 neuts. So it is not a hard counter. A Lachesis or arazu with damps is probaby your best bet to shut them down. The main point though is it is another skill-less ship much like the garmur and orthus. So a HIC5 and graviton physics5 character will be pretty much immune to long range neuts, at least from a curse (unless its the rare heavy neut curse). Or if you fit a faction WDFG and get the 40-42km scram, then a curse will be in deep falloff. So yea, neuts dont seem like a sure fire counter. They will help, but a HIC will still keep point on as long as its got a cap booster or 2 (Onyx). Damps/ECM are a bit more reliable. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
Hargante Baydari inc 0	Posted - 2015.12.13 10:43:10 - [372] - Quote as a cover ops pilot the only thing we use to get away is MWD if this is no longer possible then i am done .
Morrigan LeSante Senex Legio The OSS 992	Posted - 2015.12.14 10:36:57 - [373] - Quote Hargante wrote: as a cover ops pilot the only thing we use to get away is MWD if this is no longer possible then i am done . Perhaps you might want to fit a covert cloak...... HICs are many things now, but they will remain abysmal decloakers.
TinkerHell Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory. 214	Posted - 2015.12.16 11:36:55 - [374] - Quote I honestly dont know how i missed this. My first experience of this new HIC was engaging a Devoter with our 4 man gang, while the devoter ran circles around us going 3.7kms with heat, with a 1.5k dps tank, decent buffer and a 40km scram. (using links) I could get a Broadsword to go even faster!! Not to mention i could easily set up a gang of plated Phobos/Devoters that have long range scrams and 500 dps each. Plus as the scram module is in the high slot i now have lots of spare mid slots on the phobos... Who in the world thought giving a HIC a 40km scram was a good idea? The Adrestia was meant to be op with its long range scram and the HICs goes further....talk about stealing the long range scram role from the arazu and lachesis, which were powerful but also had weak tanks to make up for their ewar abilities. While the HIC has the scram and a huge tank... Lets not forget that you allow HICs also now to overheat their scram to shorten the duration to 4 seconds...So i dont believe you can call it balanced because they cant get reps. How long does it take a logi pilot to see the broadcast, react, lock and apply their reps?
Moac Tor Cyber Core Stain Confederation 362	Posted - 2015.12.16 17:38:49 - [375] - Quote TinkerHell wrote: I honestly dont know how i missed this. My first experience of this new HIC was engaging a Devoter with our 4 man gang, while the devoter ran circles around us going 3.7kms with heat, with a 1.5k dps tank, decent buffer and a 40km scram. (using links) I could get a Broadsword to go even faster!! Not to mention i could easily set up a gang of plated Phobos/Devoters that have long range scrams and 500 dps each. Plus as the scram module is in the high slot i now have lots of spare mid slots on the phobos... Who in the world thought giving a HIC a 40km scram was a good idea? The Adrestia was meant to be op with its long range scram and the HICs goes further....talk about stealing the long range scram role from the arazu and lachesis, which were powerful but also had weak tanks to make up for their ewar abilities. While the HIC has the scram and a huge tank... Lets not forget that you allow HICs also now to overheat their scram to shorten the duration to 4 seconds...So i dont believe you can call it balanced because they cant get reps. How long does it take a logi pilot to see the broadcast, react, lock and apply their reps? If only this exact specific scenario had been mentioned countless times along with many other reasons as to why these HICs are completely broken by players in this thread. If only we had made the suggestion that CCP needs to nerf the range or disable prop mods with this overpowered scram before they were released onto tranquillity. (end of sarcasm) Modulated ECM Effects An Alternative to Skill Trading
Harvey James The Sengoku Legacy 1255	Posted - 2015.12.16 19:19:32 - [376] - Quote Moac Tor wrote: TinkerHell wrote: I honestly dont know how i missed this. My first experience of this new HIC was engaging a Devoter with our 4 man gang, while the devoter ran circles around us going 3.7kms with heat, with a 1.5k dps tank, decent buffer and a 40km scram. (using links) I could get a Broadsword to go even faster!! Not to mention i could easily set up a gang of plated Phobos/Devoters that have long range scrams and 500 dps each. Plus as the scram module is in the high slot i now have lots of spare mid slots on the phobos... Who in the world thought giving a HIC a 40km scram was a good idea? The Adrestia was meant to be op with its long range scram and the HICs goes further....talk about stealing the long range scram role from the arazu and lachesis, which were powerful but also had weak tanks to make up for their ewar abilities. While the HIC has the scram and a huge tank... Lets not forget that you allow HICs also now to overheat their scram to shorten the duration to 4 seconds...So i dont believe you can call it balanced because they cant get reps. How long does it take a logi pilot to see the broadcast, react, lock and apply their reps? If only this exact specific scenario had been mentioned countless times along with many other reasons as to why these HICs are completely broken by players in this thread. If only we had made the suggestion that CCP needs to nerf the range or disable prop mods with this overpowered scram before they were released onto tranquillity. (end of sarcasm) it is amazing how many errors CCP make despite us pointing them out before the changes, but hey at least they are aware of the plan B option as they will inevitably have too use it T3's need to be versatile not have T2 resists, OP dps and tank obsoleting T2 ships entirely. ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 highslots for droneboats Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2178	Posted - 2015.12.17 14:38:22 - [377] - Quote I'm still loving my Heavy Interdictors and have not observed them to be particularly OP. I have caught and killed a few Orthrus I might not have caught and killed before, but they were mostly the stupid ones who apparently did not get the memo that it was a bad idea to fly towards at 3700 m/s while I was Onyx approaching them at 1900 m/s. By the time they realized they should be going the other way, I was on top of them eating their face. I am waiting to see them abused in large numbers. Inevitably someone will realize that Onyx or Devoter fleet is a viable option, then CCP will nerf them. Or, eventually, some gate camp will employ a Phobos remote sensor boosting a Devoter (or a Vigil alt remote sensor boosting any Heavy Interdictor). Then they will catch Fozzie's anonymous kite character and suddenly Heavy Interdictors will be mysteriously rebalanced. It's okay though, I was flying them before Frostline and as long as they are no worse than that, I will be happy. I would love to have more people in my Corp use the Onyx in the small gangs we usually fly, but sadly very few people have trained it up. Someone was trying to tell me that his Cerberus was a better ship to bring to a small gang fight. I laughed, but I felt the same way two months ago. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Altair Taurus Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 37	Posted - 2016.01.12 18:31:04 - [378] - Quote Dear CCP! I greatly appreciate your recent buff to heavy interdiction cruisers' tackling potential. I think that shutting down MWDs and MJDs by "infinipoint" WDFG was a very clever move in a right direction but I also suppose that's not enough. Unfortunately some cheaters fit oversized afterburners what greatly diminishes HIC's tackling potential and ruins your newly introduced meta-game tackling environment. Therefore I advice you to add one new feature - "infinipoint" WDFG also shuts down afterburners! I am sure this feature will be fully compatible with your recent tackling redesign decisions and it eliminates all remaining cheating opportunities. Please consider my suggestion seriously! Thanks!
Kagura Nikon Bon Jovian Drifters Bad Intention 2147	Posted - 2016.01.23 16:20:05 - [379] - Quote Trinkets friend wrote: I think this is overall a good change for HICs. The current meta of HICs runs like this: hisec = gate camping instalock HICs (basically it's just marmites, etc) lowsec = gate camping instalock HICs, infinipoint HICs for capturing supers with logon traps nullsec = bubble HICs occasionally (but rarely), infinipoint HICs occasionally wormhole = camping hisec holes in solo HICs, occasional ganking with bubbles, bubble interdiction in fleet fights For hisec, the ability to turn off MWDs and MJDs will adversely empower the instalock HICs to capture the only ships capable of escaping them at the moment (MJD fit DST's). Overall, not too bad; the DST could have also been caught by a 3-point scram fit Keres or similar. So a few more people will lose DST's. The ability to turn off MWD's at 25km isn't too OP considering the presence of Garmurs, Keres, and the new Navy maulus coming. For lowsec, the ability for a HIC to fit a 25km scram is actually going to see utilisation possibilities increase quite a lot. HICs will become good for tackling kiters, especially considering they will be very tough to kill. I'd expect to see utilisation rates increase markedly. For nullsec, too, the ability of HICs to deal with MWDing foes will broaden their appeal. Right now they are too slow to be effective long-point ships, and can't stop MJDs with their bubble. This restricts them, really, to gate camping interdiction, which is fine but a lot of foes still MWD and MJD away. Infinipoint scramming will at least allow dual-bubble fits to stop a gang and keep one of them on field. Unlike other long-scram tackle, the tank of HICs will become valuable, unlike a navy maulus or Garmur. For wormholes, the HIC will become very useful for stopping rolling BS which can often MJD off a hole. The 25km scram is also going to be quite useful for frig hole HICs, especially the Onyx in C13's, which will be able to bubble up through a hole and then have an effective tackle option. Five stars, would tiercide again! THe Shutdown MWD with HIC script basically shuts down the whole concept of minmatar way of fight. I know ccp is tryign to destroy racial differences for years, but damm.. make all ships same for once then. Using speed was the ONLY way to use pilot skil in this game, everythign else is FITTING skill/money and Social skill. PIloting skill was completely limited to speed ships. Now they are dead. Well not all.. true but the ones that are not dead are the.. wtf? the CALDARI ones? because they can fight outside HIC range. While minmatar tha was suppsoed to be the speedy race simply cannot ( do nto even try to tell me a vaga can be effective at 40 km) That change is stupid because it is not a tune on the game it is a massive carpet bombing over innocent ships to hit a few offending ships. And the worse.. it does not kill the offendign ships.. the ONLY ships that are really kileld are the innocent ones. Also it removes even more the ONLY good thing battleships had on their sides. Seriously< i usually try to be respectful to CCP employees, but this is among the most idiotic ideas ever attempted without even havign a clear view of the side effects. "If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 731	Posted - 2016.01.26 23:20:29 - [380] - Quote Kagura Nikon wrote: Trinkets friend wrote: I think this is overall a good change for HICs. The current meta of HICs runs like this: hisec = gate camping instalock HICs (basically it's just marmites, etc) lowsec = gate camping instalock HICs, infinipoint HICs for capturing supers with logon traps nullsec = bubble HICs occasionally (but rarely), infinipoint HICs occasionally wormhole = camping hisec holes in solo HICs, occasional ganking with bubbles, bubble interdiction in fleet fights For hisec, the ability to turn off MWDs and MJDs will adversely empower the instalock HICs to capture the only ships capable of escaping them at the moment (MJD fit DST's). Overall, not too bad; the DST could have also been caught by a 3-point scram fit Keres or similar. So a few more people will lose DST's. The ability to turn off MWD's at 25km isn't too OP considering the presence of Garmurs, Keres, and the new Navy maulus coming. For lowsec, the ability for a HIC to fit a 25km scram is actually going to see utilisation possibilities increase quite a lot. HICs will become good for tackling kiters, especially considering they will be very tough to kill. I'd expect to see utilisation rates increase markedly. For nullsec, too, the ability of HICs to deal with MWDing foes will broaden their appeal. Right now they are too slow to be effective long-point ships, and can't stop MJDs with their bubble. This restricts them, really, to gate camping interdiction, which is fine but a lot of foes still MWD and MJD away. Infinipoint scramming will at least allow dual-bubble fits to stop a gang and keep one of them on field. Unlike other long-scram tackle, the tank of HICs will become valuable, unlike a navy maulus or Garmur. For wormholes, the HIC will become very useful for stopping rolling BS which can often MJD off a hole. The 25km scram is also going to be quite useful for frig hole HICs, especially the Onyx in C13's, which will be able to bubble up through a hole and then have an effective tackle option. Five stars, would tiercide again! THe Shutdown MWD with HIC script basically shuts down the whole concept of minmatar way of fight. I know ccp is tryign to destroy racial differences for years, but damm.. make all ships same for once then. Using speed was the ONLY way to use pilot skil in this game, everythign else is FITTING skill/money and Social skill. PIloting skill was completely limited to speed ships. Now they are dead. Well not all.. true but the ones that are not dead are the.. wtf? the CALDARI ones? because they can fight outside HIC range. While minmatar tha was suppsoed to be the speedy race simply cannot ( do nto even try to tell me a vaga can be effective at 40 km) That change is stupid because it is not a tune on the game it is a massive carpet bombing over innocent ships to hit a few offending ships. And the worse.. it does not kill the offendign ships.. the ONLY ships that are really kileld are the innocent ones. Also it removes even more the ONLY good thing battleships had on their sides. Seriously< i usually try to be respectful to CCP employees, but this is among the most idiotic ideas ever attempted without even havign a clear view of the side effects. I agree to with what you said to an extent. Maybe your neck of the woods has more HIC's than mine, but i've been pleasantly surprised by the low number of HIC's roaming around. So this is not as big as an issue as anticipated. However, 6 months later, things might be very different. Few things i don't like about HIC scram is that a pimp fit, linked arazu/lach/keres cannot even get close to the scram range of the HIC. I find it a bit silly, that a HIC has more scram range than a ship dedicated to long scrams/points. Now, what i'm expecting to hear is "But HIC's are the perfect counter for command destroyers! It makes sense with the new CD's". No. A destroyer sized ship should never have been given the capability to jump itself AND ships around it. In what world do smaller ships have the capacity to launch not only themselves, but ships around them, but large ships can only jump themselves? It makes no damn sense. So once again, big ships take one in the chin for **** that small ships are screwing up. I can't stress this enough, CCP please stop introducing small ships that do things larger ships can do and then introducing mechanics to counter small ships that completely remove larger ship gameplay. I didn't spend months training up BS and BC skills for all the races just so you can dumpster those because you wanted more small gimmicky bulls---. Anyway, i'd be fine if HIC scrams only shut off MWD's, but not MJD's. Or at least not large ship MJD's. But thats just my opinion... Its not like BS or BC's are rampaging across new eden. Or people are out with pitchforks against drakes. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2525	Posted - 2016.01.27 17:40:01 - [381] - Quote Stitch Kaneland wrote: Kagura Nikon wrote: Trinkets friend wrote: I think this is overall a good change for HICs. The current meta of HICs runs like this: hisec = gate camping instalock HICs (basically it's just marmites, etc) lowsec = gate camping instalock HICs, infinipoint HICs for capturing supers with logon traps nullsec = bubble HICs occasionally (but rarely), infinipoint HICs occasionally wormhole = camping hisec holes in solo HICs, occasional ganking with bubbles, bubble interdiction in fleet fights For hisec, the ability to turn off MWDs and MJDs will adversely empower the instalock HICs to capture the only ships capable of escaping them at the moment (MJD fit DST's). Overall, not too bad; the DST could have also been caught by a 3-point scram fit Keres or similar. So a few more people will lose DST's. The ability to turn off MWD's at 25km isn't too OP considering the presence of Garmurs, Keres, and the new Navy maulus coming. For lowsec, the ability for a HIC to fit a 25km scram is actually going to see utilisation possibilities increase quite a lot. HICs will become good for tackling kiters, especially considering they will be very tough to kill. I'd expect to see utilisation rates increase markedly. For nullsec, too, the ability of HICs to deal with MWDing foes will broaden their appeal. Right now they are too slow to be effective long-point ships, and can't stop MJDs with their bubble. This restricts them, really, to gate camping interdiction, which is fine but a lot of foes still MWD and MJD away. Infinipoint scramming will at least allow dual-bubble fits to stop a gang and keep one of them on field. Unlike other long-scram tackle, the tank of HICs will become valuable, unlike a navy maulus or Garmur. For wormholes, the HIC will become very useful for stopping rolling BS which can often MJD off a hole. The 25km scram is also going to be quite useful for frig hole HICs, especially the Onyx in C13's, which will be able to bubble up through a hole and then have an effective tackle option. Five stars, would tiercide again! THe Shutdown MWD with HIC script basically shuts down the whole concept of minmatar way of fight. I know ccp is tryign to destroy racial differences for years, but damm.. make all ships same for once then. Using speed was the ONLY way to use pilot skil in this game, everythign else is FITTING skill/money and Social skill. PIloting skill was completely limited to speed ships. Now they are dead. Well not all.. true but the ones that are not dead are the.. wtf? the CALDARI ones? because they can fight outside HIC range. While minmatar tha was suppsoed to be the speedy race simply cannot ( do nto even try to tell me a vaga can be effective at 40 km) That change is stupid because it is not a tune on the game it is a massive carpet bombing over innocent ships to hit a few offending ships. And the worse.. it does not kill the offendign ships.. the ONLY ships that are really kileld are the innocent ones. Also it removes even more the ONLY good thing battleships had on their sides. Seriously< i usually try to be respectful to CCP employees, but this is among the most idiotic ideas ever attempted without even havign a clear view of the side effects. I agree to with what you said to an extent. Maybe your neck of the woods has more HIC's than mine, but i've been pleasantly surprised by the low number of HIC's roaming around. So this is not as big as an issue as anticipated. However, 6 months later, things might be very different. Few things i don't like about HIC scram is that a pimp fit, linked arazu/lach/keres cannot even get close to the scram range of the HIC. I find it a bit silly, that a HIC has more scram range than a ship dedicated to long scrams/points. Now, what i'm expecting to hear is "But HIC's are the perfect counter for command destroyers! It makes sense with the new CD's". No. A destroyer sized ship should never have been given the capability to jump itself AND ships around it. In what world do smaller ships have the capacity to launch not only themselves, but ships around them, but large ships can only jump themselves? It makes no damn sense. So once again, big ships take one in the chin for **** that small ships are screwing up. I can't stress this enough, CCP please stop introducing small ships that do things larger ships can do and then introducing mechanics to counter small ships that completely remove larger ship gameplay. I didn't spend months training up BS and BC skills for all the races just so you can dumpster those because you wanted more small gimmicky bulls---. Anyway, i'd be fine if HIC scrams only shut off MWD's, but not MJD's. Or at least not large ship MJD's. But thats just my opinion... Its not like BS or BC's are rampaging across new eden. Or people are out with pitchforks against drakes. The real issue is that we are stuck with the jump field generators in game now. It's definitely not getting removed...
Stitch Kaneland Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic 731	Posted - 2016.01.27 18:38:57 - [382] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Stitch Kaneland wrote: Kagura Nikon wrote: [quote=Trinkets friend]I think this is overall a good change for HICs. The current meta of HICs runs like this: hisec = gate camping instalock HICs (basically it's just marmites, etc) lowsec = gate camping instalock HICs, infinipoint HICs for capturing supers with logon traps nullsec = bubble HICs occasionally (but rarely), infinipoint HICs occasionally wormhole = camping hisec holes in solo HICs, occasional ganking with bubbles, bubble interdiction in fleet fights For hisec, the ability to turn off MWDs and MJDs will adversely empower the instalock HICs to capture the only ships capable of escaping them at the moment (MJD fit DST's). Overall, not too bad; the DST could have also been caught by a 3-point scram fit Keres or similar. So a few more people will lose DST's. The ability to turn off MWD's at 25km isn't too OP considering the presence of Garmurs, Keres, and the new Navy maulus coming. For lowsec, the ability for a HIC to fit a 25km scram is actually going to see utilisation possibilities increase quite a lot. HICs will become good for tackling kiters, especially considering they will be very tough to kill. I'd expect to see utilisation rates increase markedly. For nullsec, too, the ability of HICs to deal with MWDing foes will broaden their appeal. Right now they are too slow to be effective long-point ships, and can't stop MJDs with their bubble. This restricts them, really, to gate camping interdiction, which is fine but a lot of foes still MWD and MJD away. Infinipoint scramming will at least allow dual-bubble fits to stop a gang and keep one of them on field. Unlike other long-scram tackle, the tank of HICs will become valuable, unlike a navy maulus or Garmur. For wormholes, the HIC will become very useful for stopping rolling BS which can often MJD off a hole. The 25km scram is also going to be quite useful for frig hole HICs, especially the Onyx in C13's, which will be able to bubble up through a hole and then have an effective tackle option. Five stars, would tiercide again! THe Shutdown MWD with HIC script basically shuts down the whole concept of minmatar way of fight. I know ccp is tryign to destroy racial differences for years, but damm.. make all ships same for once then. Using speed was the ONLY way to use pilot skil in this game, everythign else is FITTING skill/money and Social skill. PIloting skill was completely limited to speed ships. Now they are dead. Well not all.. true but the ones that are not dead are the.. wtf? the CALDARI ones? because they can fight outside HIC range. While minmatar tha was suppsoed to be the speedy race simply cannot ( do nto even try to tell me a vaga can be effective at 40 km) That change is stupid because it is not a tune on the game it is a massive carpet bombing over innocent ships to hit a few offending ships. And the worse.. it does not kill the offendign ships.. the ONLY ships that are really kileld are the innocent ones. Also it removes even more the ONLY good thing battleships had on their sides. Seriously< i usually try to be respectful to CCP employees, but this is among the most idiotic ideas ever attempted without even havign a clear view of the side effects. The real issue is that we are stuck with the jump field generators in game now. It's definitely not getting removed... Thats fine. I don't expect them to be removed. Countering/killing them isn't a problem. The problem is CCP seems to be obsessed with small ships, and have barely given ships larger than cruisers a second look. BC rebalance was great i'll admit, but half of what they accomplished in the rebalance was removed when you give HIC's 40km scrams. Goodbye viable MJD module and even attempting to kite in a BC. Assuming HIC's will become more popular as people train into them in the coming months. We have had 17 new small ships released in the past year or so. T2 logi frigs, faction EWAR, command dessies, expedition frig and T3D's. Its just getting a little old. Small ships have been the healthiest in the game for awhile and we add more, yet they're ignoring BS, bombers, Blops, T3's, or even the potential for pirate battlecruisers. I would just like to see a little more focus on ship classes that need help, or area's where there is potential for new things. Why couldn't the MJD dessies have been BC's or BS? That seems a bit more realistic and easier to counter than 3-4k/s dessies with tanks better than AF or dictors. Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
elitatwo Eve Minions The-Company 1062	Posted - 2016.01.27 23:32:48 - [383] - Quote I was against it at first but you are right, Stich. People screamed for command destroyers and they got what they wished for with a vengeance. Now the only viable ships to fly are True Sansha ones. I don't mind because I love them but getting killed in a 2-3 billion boat with 3 destroyers is so way out of line, I don't have words. And congratulations CCP on the last tiericide - it was a complete failure. Now in the corner and feel bad then back to the drawing board. Until then all battleships guns will get a signature resolution of 200mm and the base tracking is multiplied by 10, no exceptions. The ships will get a signature resolution of 400mm. Let's call it "Revenge of the battleships". All battleships base targetting range is increased by 75km. That should make the regular battleships worth their current pricetag. Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
Shinzunn Quantum Industrial Corporation Solar Citizens 0	Posted - 2016.01.31 21:20:00 - [384] - Quote I'd like too know who's idea it was to allow the use of the Warp disruption Field Generators in high sec. That's crap... All it does is give the griefer corps that war dec you an instant win. I just had my ship destroyed in a 1.0 system by a broadsword that used this. Even though it says in the description that its banned in Empire Space.
Rawketsled Generic Corp Name 365	Posted - 2016.02.01 02:09:26 - [385] - Quote Shinzunn wrote: I'd like too know who's idea it was to allow the use of the Warp disruption Field Generators in high sec. That's crap... All it does is give the griefer corps that war dec you an instant win. I just had my ship destroyed in a 1.0 system by a broadsword that used this. Even though it says in the description that its banned in Empire Space. The focus script changes that. Sorry to hear that you didn't do the research.
h4kun4 Heeresversuchsanstalt The Bastion 64	Posted - 2016.02.26 12:10:05 - [386] - Quote While you are at the point of tiericiding warp disruption field gens i would like to propose, (if not already secretly planned in the future) to do the same with interdiction sphere launchers: Boni might be simmilar to the Bomb Launcher T2: Reduced Reload time by 15% (from 60s to 51s) increased Capacity by 33,3% (from 15m-¦ to 20m-¦ = 4 Probes) Increased CPU need by 10% (from 100 to 110 TF) Neccessary Skills: Propulsion Jamming V Graviton Physics V Also, it is banned in empire if theres no script inside,, with script its just a Scram with practically infnite warp scram strengh
h4kun4 Heeresversuchsanstalt The Bastion 64	Posted - 2016.02.26 12:10:53 - [387] - Quote h4kun4 wrote: While you are at the point of tiericiding warp disruption field gens i would like to propose, (if not already secretly planned in the future) to do the same with interdiction sphere launchers: Boni might be simmilar to the Bomb Launcher T2: Reduced Reload time by 15% (from 60s to 51s) increased Capacity by 33,3% (from 15m-¦ to 20m-¦ = 4 Probes) Increased CPU need by 10% (from 100 to 110 TF) Neccessary Skills: Propulsion Jamming V Graviton Physics V to Shinzunn It is banned in empire if theres no script loaded, with script its just a Scram with practically infnite warp scram strengh EDIT: seems im too stupid to find the edit button, and instead click the quate buttion, domt mind me sigh
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33421	Posted - 2016.02.26 13:05:28 - [388] - Quote Don't feel bad. Years ago I had a "tackle fit" Onyx that I took into a wardec thinking the focused point would scram. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)


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