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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
Rosal Milag
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
10
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Posted - 2015.11.17 15:15:11 -
[91] - Quote
afkalt wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Lord Jasta wrote:Yet another item that can't be used in high sec, :( why not have this with a criminal timer? We really wanted to but even with a criminal timer you would pretty easily be able to destroy incursion fleets, which seemed over the top :( It's not over the top. It's hilarious and moreover, some needed risk to that community.
When there is no counterplay, its over the top. Specifically referring to the ability of these destroyers to warp into an incursion fight, activate without anyone stopping them and killing the fleet as the logi is now 100km away and useless.
In low and null, as soon as the destroyer lands, its able to be killed. In high sec, you get concorded. Even a criminal timer when it activates isn't enough, both for the fleet to kill it or for it to activate before concord kills it in certain systems. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2409
|
Posted - 2015.11.17 15:17:17 -
[92] - Quote
Rosal Milag wrote:afkalt wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Lord Jasta wrote:Yet another item that can't be used in high sec, :( why not have this with a criminal timer? We really wanted to but even with a criminal timer you would pretty easily be able to destroy incursion fleets, which seemed over the top :( It's not over the top. It's hilarious and moreover, some needed risk to that community. When there is no counterplay, its over the top. Specifically referring to the ability of these destroyers to warp into an incursion fight, activate without anyone stopping them and killing the fleet as the logi is now 100km away and useless. In low and null, as soon as the destroyer lands, its able to be killed. In high sec, you get concorded. Even a criminal timer when it activates isn't enough, both for the fleet to kill it or for it to activate before concord kills it in certain systems.
There is instant counterplay.
You can scram it, thus shutting off the module AND tackling the ship. Which is both flashy and surrounded by several thousand DPS. It'll have a bad time.
Again, if you can expect combat fleets to do this, you can JUST as easily expect incursion fleets to do this.
ed: And it should only go suspect, imo. |
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
1587
|
Posted - 2015.11.17 15:19:04 -
[93] - Quote
Haven't seen it asked, so - what's the expected deal with Command Destroyers, Micro Jump Field Generators, and (official) tournaments?
I'd personally make the assumption that the destroyers themselves will be allowed but that the MJFG module would not be; is this accurate, or would we have one of the other two options - that the Command Destroyer is banned in its entirety, or that the MJFG module is legal to fit on them (which could result in some comedy, but not particularly good TV)?
Morwen Lagann
CEO, Tyrathlion Interstellar
Owner, The Golden Masque
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Alyssia Benar
Vision Inc Hole Control
30
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Posted - 2015.11.17 15:19:49 -
[94] - Quote
Zockhandra wrote:Alyssia Benar wrote:Another Question: Can you activate it from within a Force Field to jump ships out? Oh god, dragging out 5 bot machs using a AWOXer, okay i like that idea And you wouldn't even have to burn that Char because there is no need to get on the killmail. ;) |
Cephei Kells
Black Omega Security The OSS
28
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Posted - 2015.11.17 15:20:03 -
[95] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Lord Jasta wrote:Yet another item that can't be used in high sec, :( why not have this with a criminal timer? We really wanted to but even with a criminal timer you would pretty easily be able to destroy incursion fleets, which seemed over the top :(
Sure would be a shame if a fleet comp like one from an incursion would have to stick half its dudes into anti-mjd ships to counter this exciting new gameplay. |
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising Decayed Orbit
115
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Posted - 2015.11.17 15:21:21 -
[96] - Quote
afkalt wrote:You can scram it, thus shutting off the module AND tackling the ship. Which is both flashy and surrounded by several thousand DPS. It'll have a bad time.
Again, if you can expect combat fleets to do this, you can JUST as easily expect incursion fleets to do this.
ed: And it should only go suspect, imo.
only works if they go suspect already during spool up. and then you have a *5* second window to lock the thing and scram it.that means your webbing loki or so needs to be with the bulk of the fleet. and if e.g. the lokis are a bit behind the main bulk fleet (let's say 20km) and the loki cant get into range to stop the dessy fast enough ... it jumps away the logis and leaving the normal ships to die. so turtle up is the only real option then to make warp scrambling as counter work. |
Meltmind2
NED-Clan Goonswarm Federation
51
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Posted - 2015.11.17 15:22:22 -
[97] - Quote
Question on the MJFG: will spooling up the module increase the sigradius of the parent ship by 50% like the current MJDs? |
Zockhandra
Jewish Zeppelin Mafia
20
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Posted - 2015.11.17 15:22:37 -
[98] - Quote
Alyssia Benar wrote:Zockhandra wrote:Alyssia Benar wrote:Another Question: Can you activate it from within a Force Field to jump ships out? Oh god, dragging out 5 bot machs using a AWOXer, okay i like that idea And you wouldn't even have to burn that Char because there is no need to get on the killmail. ;)
I take it back
Doooooooooooooooooo eeeeeeeeeeeeeet
Make them Alive Mr Rise!
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Airi Cho
Dark-Rising Decayed Orbit
115
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Posted - 2015.11.17 15:22:55 -
[99] - Quote
Morwen Lagann wrote:Haven't seen it asked, so - what's the expected deal with Command Destroyers, Micro Jump Field Generators, and (official) tournaments?
I'd personally make the assumption that the destroyers themselves will be allowed but that the MJFG module would not be; is this accurate, or would we have one of the other two options - that the Command Destroyer is banned in its entirety, or that the MJFG module is legal to fit on them (which could result in some comedy, but not particularly good TV)?
TBH ... it could even be a viable module during the tournament... if the MJD usage in the amarr championship is any indication. and it would give frigs and dessies even more of an important task. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2409
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Posted - 2015.11.17 15:25:00 -
[100] - Quote
Airi Cho wrote:afkalt wrote:You can scram it, thus shutting off the module AND tackling the ship. Which is both flashy and surrounded by several thousand DPS. It'll have a bad time.
Again, if you can expect combat fleets to do this, you can JUST as easily expect incursion fleets to do this.
ed: And it should only go suspect, imo. only works if they go suspect already during spool up. and then you have a *5* second window to lock the thing and scram it.that means your webbing loki or so needs to be with the bulk of the fleet. and if e.g. the lokis are a bit behind the main bulk fleet (let's say 20km) and the loki cant get into range to stop the dessy fast enough ... it jumps away the logis and leaving the normal ships to die. so turtle up is the only real option then to make warp scrambling as counter work.
Which they should (go flashy at activation).
It's sure be swell if there was a new module script coming that allowed 35+ km scrams. Man that would make these more than manageable.
But wait, your isk/hour, right?
Your entire argument falters because you're under the EXACT same situation and problem as any fleet, ANYWHERE provided they go flashy at spool up, which they would because actions are tied to activations, not effects.
If it is reasonable to expect fleets in low, null and WH space to lock (and tackle) these on land, the same level of reasonableness MUST therefore apply to incursions.
But wait, your isk/hour, right? |
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
2276
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Posted - 2015.11.17 15:27:52 -
[101] - Quote
Question: will MJFG use show up on killmails?
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Airi Cho
Dark-Rising Decayed Orbit
115
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Posted - 2015.11.17 15:28:06 -
[102] - Quote
I dont run incursion. the difference is ... the fleet compositions you will normally find in null/lowsec will include tackle already. |
Arla Sarain
699
|
Posted - 2015.11.17 15:28:11 -
[103] - Quote
I get the bitter feeling that this detracts from dedicated probers utility. The ability to act as a positioning tool and a warpin was pretty uch the only reason to bring a prober to a fight, seeing as how easy it is to evade probes otherwise. Now having a prober ongrid seems pretty redundant. |
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising Decayed Orbit
115
|
Posted - 2015.11.17 15:29:33 -
[104] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:I get the bitter feeling that this detracts from dedicated probers utility. The ability to act as a positioning tool and a warpin was pretty uch the only reason to bring a prober to a fight, seeing as how easy it is to evade probes otherwise. Now having a prober ongrid seems pretty redundant.
Probers will have so many other good uses than just blinking your fleet 100km. |
Hendrink Collie
Blood Oath Foundation Adaptation.
76
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Posted - 2015.11.17 15:30:39 -
[105] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Rosal Milag wrote:afkalt wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Lord Jasta wrote:Yet another item that can't be used in high sec, :( why not have this with a criminal timer? We really wanted to but even with a criminal timer you would pretty easily be able to destroy incursion fleets, which seemed over the top :( It's not over the top. It's hilarious and moreover, some needed risk to that community. When there is no counterplay, its over the top. Specifically referring to the ability of these destroyers to warp into an incursion fight, activate without anyone stopping them and killing the fleet as the logi is now 100km away and useless. In low and null, as soon as the destroyer lands, its able to be killed. In high sec, you get concorded. Even a criminal timer when it activates isn't enough, both for the fleet to kill it or for it to activate before concord kills it in certain systems. There is instant counterplay. You can scram it, thus shutting off the module AND tackling the ship. Which is both flashy and surrounded by several thousand DPS. It'll have a bad time. Again, if you can expect combat fleets to do this, you can JUST as easily expect incursion fleets to do this. ed: And it should only go suspect, imo.
Luckily incursion fleets rarely go into lowsec/nullsec where you can use the module
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2409
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Posted - 2015.11.17 15:31:26 -
[106] - Quote
Airi Cho wrote:I dont run incursion. the difference is ... the fleet compositions you will normally find in null/lowsec will include tackle already.
So it comes down to isk/hour and not wanting to pay that HIC pilot.
Also, those fleets tend not to run tackle because the big tussles are over assets and leaving the field loses the asset. They will also require refitting/adapting to these.
Hitting incursion isk/hour is NOT a good reason to deny high sec access to these. The counters are there, if people are too lazy or too dumb, or too cheap to use them then they deserve to die in a fire. |
NearNihil
Jump Drive Appreciation Society Test Alliance Please Ignore
145
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Posted - 2015.11.17 15:33:40 -
[107] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Their weapon systems will be missile or drone based, like their base hulls. Now, this question has probably been asked before, but... why is this a thing now and not for the existing interdictors? I want lasers on the Heretic, dammit. |
Quindaster
Infernal Laboratory Infernal Octopus
120
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Posted - 2015.11.17 15:34:06 -
[108] - Quote
Omg...new crazy drug idea from CCP...
It wasn't enough to see here uncatchable t3 destroyers, now we will see fleets of 50 frigs or destroyers jumping on 100+100+100km every 10 seconda and back, and till you try to lock them - they jump out. Zero kills, but CCP happy - they can show to EVE-Online owners "how they work hard...".
Most of people will not even undock to fight with frigs or destroyrs - it's boring for most of players who more then 2 years old, even crusers. No reason to risk own ships for this cheap destroyers or crusers, no one will undock for them, except some crazy noobs in zero space.
Would be better if CCP start to think how to bring back old middle scale fight in EVE, because most of old players leave EVE and I bored of it too and will leave too for other more intresting games, because after 8 years of gaming CCP did nothing for old players - always just nerf-nerf-nerf and CCP only play in database modifications and they call it "new patch" cheap and easy way to do nothing for CCP.
We have 100 different ships now in dock, but we do not use them, becauase 90% of them - useless now. Most of them I still didn't refite after most of stupid CCP patches, because noone have power to refit 200 ships and change they's fitting after each new patch in 50 different systems and stations. If CCP this we have nothing to do and will do it - they are WRONG !
Even if clever people try to give some ideas for CCP how to change this boring docking game - CCP never listen, for this people leave and most of clever and old players stop to write on foruns, because we all know it's useless spending of own time.
This fight in EVE more and more short, you spend hours on waiting and 2-5 min fighting. CCP think it FUN and nerf ships HP...not, it's not fun. Fun when you can spend 5 min on waiting and 30 minute fighting.
Where is walking in stations? Fighting in stations? Where is building cities on planets like in ANNO 2070? Where is Tech 2 capitals, supercapitals? Where is different type of weapons for big ships? Where is T3 BS ? Where is fighting arena where anyone can join from station and fight with random people? and so on and so on. CCP did NOTHING in last 3 years, absolutely nothing. They do now this kind of things which they was need to do 7 years ago, like adding to direct scan that ray on map where you can see where you scanning. But no, CCP show this things like something awesome and NEW in 2015... CCP - voke up. it's not 1999 out there ! This things was fun 16 years ago, but even in 1999 we had better games. |
Airi Cho
Dark-Rising Decayed Orbit
115
|
Posted - 2015.11.17 15:37:39 -
[109] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Hitting incursion isk/hour is NOT a good reason to deny high sec access to these. The counters are there, if people are too lazy or too dumb, or too cheap to use them then they deserve to die in a fire.
if you read my post ... you would have noticed that incursions were my minor gripe with this. there is a lot of game play that doesn't allow much free movement. (mining with orca on field comes to mind.) there is also many ships which by their nature are quite vulnerable to MJFG without having a proper counter to them. DST, orcas. I assume freighters are excempted by "is a capital".
and "because it is funny to blink them away" is not a good argument *for* MJFG in highsec either.
When you consider "is game mechanic X useful in highsec/lowsec/0.0" you should also look at what the activities in those areas require. |
Nina Latina
ECHO MOB
3
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Posted - 2015.11.17 15:37:48 -
[110] - Quote
Will make good use in fw/lowsec space. |
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handige harrie
Hedion University Amarr Empire
347
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Posted - 2015.11.17 15:38:32 -
[111] - Quote
One of the most interesting additions to eve in a long time, I don't think Highsec should be excluded however.
There already is counterplay to the module everywhere in eve and that is not being close together. Since Incursion fleets are not static, they are just as able to spread out as anyone else is. Just add that as soon as you activate the module you go blinky and can be shot without concord interfering in highsec and give a penalty to the activation spool up, so instead of 9 seconds, it'll take like 30 in highsec for it to activate.
Now as an incursion pilot you have time and opportunity to defend yourself. A bit more risk and need to pay attention while earning the highest isk/hour per pilot in highsec by far is not a bad thing.
Because the module doesn't stop the affected ship from doing what it's doing, like aligning/moving or anything else, getting your industrial moved 100km shouldn't be too big of a deal really and with 30 seconds before activation you have plenty of time to react anyway.
--
If you use the module on a ship with an active cyno, will the cyno move too?
Baddest poster ever
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2410
|
Posted - 2015.11.17 15:40:01 -
[112] - Quote
Airi Cho wrote:afkalt wrote:Hitting incursion isk/hour is NOT a good reason to deny high sec access to these. The counters are there, if people are too lazy or too dumb, or too cheap to use them then they deserve to die in a fire. if you read my post ... you would have noticed that incursions were my minor gripe with this. there is a lot of game play that doesn't allow much free movement. (mining with orca on field comes to mind.) there is also many ships which by their nature are quite vulnerable to MJFG without having a proper counter to them. DST, orcas. I assume freighters are excempted by "is a capital". and "because it is funny to blink them away" is not a good argument *for* MJFG in highsec either. When you consider "is game mechanic X useful in highsec/lowsec/0.0" you should also look at what the activities in those areas require.
It brings "good" and "bad" to highsec, depending on your situation.
It will really hurt station game players. It will allow a solid anti-bump counterplay. It lets you blink away neutral RR.
It's not just about one thing. It would bring a lot of cool stuff, but incursions were cited as Rise's concern so I dealt with that first. |
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere Coalition of the Unfortunate
1558
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Posted - 2015.11.17 15:40:52 -
[113] - Quote
I love everything these represent. A real shake-up of the meta.
It reminds me of the Rooks & Kings video about pipe bombing "What about firing ship sized bullets". Except these will be more like ship-sized pool balls.
They are going to be absolutely lethal on station undocks. That one might require a preemptive balance pass otherwise we'll end up with cloaked command destroyers sitting outside every station. Will freighters / capital industrials be effected or are they considered capitals for this?
What will the overheat bonus provide? There's a few good options to my mind, either reduced spool up time, increased pull radius, increased jump range (150km maybe?).
They will be hugely disruptive to capital warfare too. I can imagine the price of these ships is going to go up and down like crazy as alliances sacrifice hundreds of them to clear the bubbles and interdictors from their trapped supercapital fleets.
Will it have an almost-obligatory micro-jump-area-disruptor deployable that can interfear with its operation?
Looks fun. |
Ria Nieyli
Nieyli Enterprises
35317
|
Posted - 2015.11.17 15:48:13 -
[114] - Quote
So, will these things be able to only fit one link module regardless of how much command processors stick on them or am I reading this wrong? |
Jin alPatar
Entertainment 7wenty
73
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Posted - 2015.11.17 15:50:52 -
[115] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote: restrictions you need to know are that you cannot use this module in high sec
Can we give the MJFG an option to be scripted to work like a normal MJD that can be used in HiSec? |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3236
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Posted - 2015.11.17 15:50:54 -
[116] - Quote
Are the drone boats not getting drone HP bonuses? or is it a typo?
Second if I may suggest a change to the Magus
Change the drone bandwidth to 50Mbps and give it a 75m3 drone bay, change the drone damage bonus to a tracking bonus and then give the ship 4 turret hard points. The DPS is comparable but it gives it some separation to the Pontifex
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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Rosal Milag
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
10
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Posted - 2015.11.17 15:53:15 -
[117] - Quote
afkalt wrote:
There is instant counterplay.
You can scram it, thus shutting off the module AND tackling the ship. Which is both flashy and surrounded by several thousand DPS. It'll have a bad time.
Again, if you can expect combat fleets to do this, you can JUST as easily expect incursion fleets to do this.
ed: And it should only go suspect, imo.
Problem is, in high sec, a gank attempt targets one ship. Yes with a large enough suicide fleet, you can kill an entire incursion fleet. But that is committing numbers and can be noticed on D-scan.
With these destroyers, they can kill a whole fleet in ~5 seconds. With one ship. Tell me how that is not overpowered. I don't care what your thoughts are on incursion runners, that is not the point here. One ship, in high sec, should not be able to effectively kill 10 others illegally in 5 seconds.
PvP fleets are fit to take down PvP ships. A PvE fleet is not designed nor intended to engage a PvP target, especially a destroyer sized target with battleship targeting. |
Aiyshimin
Fistful of Finns Paisti Syndicate
588
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Posted - 2015.11.17 15:54:13 -
[118] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:So, will these things be able to only fit one link module regardless of how much command processors stick on them or am I reading this wrong?
They can fit one link without command processors, just like BCs. Adding more command processors enables more links, but most of these can't actually do that due to slot layout and fittings.
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2410
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Posted - 2015.11.17 15:55:45 -
[119] - Quote
Rosal Milag wrote:afkalt wrote:
There is instant counterplay.
You can scram it, thus shutting off the module AND tackling the ship. Which is both flashy and surrounded by several thousand DPS. It'll have a bad time.
Again, if you can expect combat fleets to do this, you can JUST as easily expect incursion fleets to do this.
ed: And it should only go suspect, imo.
Problem is, in high sec, a gank attempt targets one ship. Yes with a large enough suicide fleet, you can kill an entire incursion fleet. But that is committing numbers and can be noticed on D-scan. With these destroyers, they can kill a whole fleet in ~5 seconds. With one ship. Tell me how that is not overpowered. I don't care what your thoughts are on incursion runners, that is not the point here. One ship, in high sec, should not be able to effectively kill 10 others illegally in 5 seconds. PvP fleets are fit to take down PvP ships. A PvE fleet is not designed nor intended to engage a PvP target, especially a destroyer sized target with battleship targeting.
So bring a SeBod HIC. It's not exactly hard to stop these.
Maybe, >gasp< you need to adapt your fittings. The horror. |
MuraSaki Siki
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
64
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Posted - 2015.11.17 15:56:32 -
[120] - Quote
1. would command DD move a cyno field with it? and the ship activating cyno?
2. how about marauder with bastion ON? |
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