I can't help but wonder if you're being sarcastic, since you of all people would be able to grasp the concept of such blatant powercreep, if you have to outright delete old and invalidated classes.

Well that seems terribly unlikely.

Here is a feedback thread for some awesome new ships, Command Destroyers!

So here's the basics. We are adding a new line of Tech II destroyers based on the Algos, Dragoon, Corax and Talwar along with a new type of module called the Micro Jump Field Generator, which the new Destroyers will have exclusive access to. I'm going to go through some basic questions here at the top and then give you all the details after.

First, why Command Destroyers? We have always wanted to do a line of smaller ships that could provide gang support, but we expected to wait until after a rework of the ganglink mechanics, but here we saw a perfect opportunity to bring you this awesome new module and combining the role with gang support seems ideal. We still want to rework links and think these will slot in perfectly to that rework when it happens, but in the mean time you guys get a few awesome new tools.

Second, how exactly does the Micro Jump Field Generator work? This module is exactly like a Micro Jump Drive except that when it fires, it pulls any ships nearby along with it for the jump. There's a lot of specifics to consider here but the big restrictions you need to know are that you cannot use this module in high sec, you can not pull invulnerable targets (ships that have just undocked or just jumped through a gate and are still cloaked), you can not move capitals, and you can not jump into starbase shields. You CAN however do a lot of really crazy thing such as pull bombs that are midair, pull dictor bubbles or chain multiple jumps in a row using several Command Destroyers. As for numbers, we have a base spool up time of 9 seconds, a reactivation delay of 160 seconds, a pull radius of 6km from the ship and a jump distance of 100km. The module requires 5 PG and 31 CPU to fit and requires the same skill as normal MJDs to use.

Now, for the ships themselves. We are aiming to have a set of destroyers that are both faster and more resilient than either their Tech I counterparts or Interdictors, but sacrifice offense. This should make the support role, whether with MJFG or links, easier to fill while leaving them vulnerable to abuse in combat. Their weapon systems will be missile or drone based, like their base hulls.



And for their attributes I'm using a google doc this time for better readability: ATTRIBUTES

As always, we look forward to your feedback. With these ships I'm especially interested in any opinions or insights on the powergrid and CPU numbers, as the ships will probably get used a few different ways and I'm not positive we've accounted for all of them.

If you have any questions or need clarifications please ask, and don't be surprised if there's a typo here and there that needs fixing :)

Thanks !

what happens if two MJD activate at the same time? is it just a random split bewteen the two? or is there always and order of operations?

I honestly don't understand the thought process behind these new MJFGs. It seems to me that there has never been a "why" for these modules; what problem do they solve? I mean what kind of balance is there in being able to daisy chain these things? I can now move any arbitrary distance I want in any arbitrary direction as long as I have enough of these ships, and we have seen time and again that eve players are good at massing together ships.

Sounds like everybody at CCP has got caught up in a weird internal language where "emergent gameplay" is an excuse to design something that you don't even know what it's for. Seriously the first stage of a design is deciding what the new thing is for. I get that you want to give us tools but they need to still fill a purpose and they still need to be balanced. After 10+ years in existence it's getting hard to add new roles to eve, focus on balance first and then if we still need new ships we can add them.

....
HIC Bubbles interrupt any MJDs, local or field generated.

A simple risk vs. reward equation:...

What people who follow this thread told me is that the Destroyers will be quite hard to kill because they have a small sig (which should bloom when activating the jump field) and if one of these things burns inside the fleet solo its quite easy to fend off (some lachesis/Arazus with factionscrams) but if you are able to chain them and the people doing have proper skill, they can rip apart any slower fleet doctrine. I understand that it must be hard work to time the MJD gen properly so you dont come in too late/early and nothing happens.
I will be honest, i didn't bother to read all the last 30 pages or so, so please excuse me if this suggestion already happened.

HIC Bubbles interrupt any MJDs, local or field generated.

A simple risk vs. reward equation:
Option A = No HIC: You Risk that your fleet gets torn apart but you can MJD/warp off if the brown hits the fan.

Option B = HIC: You Risk that your fleet get hit by a painful bombrun or gets in a shortrange brawl it can't win but you will be rewarded with the security from hostile MJD fields.

Anyway, I look forward to the changes. No matter how its going to turn out, first look, then complain

Two buddies of mine did try this out on SiSi and this daisy chaining works in order of activation. We did was we were aligning to a celestial and the one in front activated first, then I and then the other missed it but we were already 200km from where we started so it does work with timer ticks and in order of activation.

So if you need to jump someone 100 to n+100km you can do just that.

Only HIC bubbles would be blocking MJDs while not working like a scram in this idea, so you couls still mwd out on a gatecamp for example. DIC Bubbles, ESS bubble and Mobile anchorable Bubbles would not affect an MJD by any means.

Again, because it seems like there was a misunderstanding
Risk = You kill your own fleet by bubbling them
Reward = your fleets stays together so you might win
Reason = Everone has the choice to be prepared to certain things...the one who chooses to bring a certain ship will get that chance, the one who decides against it has to deal with it if he gets podded, Its always been like that, preparation shopuld be rewarded, otherwise the game wouldn't be fun.

ofc that only works in nullsec and WH
This would just be a way i imagined would help to not make fleet eagements a game of russian destroyer roulette, still there might be better ways, like capping the number of times you can stack mjd fields or sth else nobody had thought about yet...


Some philosophic words about risk and rewards:
Risk vs. reward works for everything in eve, for every risk you take (every action that moves your ship closer to exploding) there should be a reward, let it be isk, a nice item drop, tears of the enemy, a nice chat wit the one you just shot how awesome that fight was, or simply the certain knowledge that you've just ruined someones day. Everything you think of as a reward, becomes a reward.

For instance, odd timing has led a hostile CD trying to MJD my ship into hostiles, and the other CD is trying to get me back to safety away from the hostiles, at the same time.

* Command Destroyers - Do not show up on D-Scan.


This is needed.

Are you saying that Command Destroyers should not show up on D-scan? If that is what you are suggesting, why do you think that is necessary?

cause links should be safe ;)

There was some debate on the other thread if he meant they currently DO NOT.

To which my money is on he's not added them to his dscan overview settings.

I see an easy counter to any command dessies trying to jump out parts of your fleet:

Space out your fleet or have a few anti-dessy groups made up of two cruisers or a frig and a cruiser. These groups should worry about nothing but enemy command dessies. Whenever one starts to make a move, the nearest group MWDs to its most likely target, tackles and destroys the dessy. If the firepower of the group is insufficient to destroy it in a timely manner, have the group web and target paint the dessy and reassign a BC/BS's guns for a few seconds.

Are you saying that Command Destroyers should not show up on D-scan? If that is what you are suggesting, why do you think that is necessary?