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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 9 post(s) |
Poranius Fisc
State War Academy
Caldari State
29
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Posted - 2016.03.10 21:41:19 -
[331] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Alysha Saronn wrote:Fozzie, can you do us all a favor here at eve and just leave the pvp and game design/balancing to someone who actually plays the damn game... I mean what the hell are you even thinking? 1km optimal web? are the devs and ccp stoned? What the hell are large turrets going to do to a frigate or dessie at 1km? even if you decide to move your aiding them.. Fall off on a webs is dumb and you should feel dumb.. You should feel dumb for thinking that BS should be able to solo frigates.
Bonused painters can make it happen on any of the BS's with bonuses to tracking. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
2664
|
Posted - 2016.03.10 21:56:56 -
[332] - Quote
Poranius Fisc wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Alysha Saronn wrote:Fozzie, can you do us all a favor here at eve and just leave the pvp and game design/balancing to someone who actually plays the damn game... I mean what the hell are you even thinking? 1km optimal web? are the devs and ccp stoned? What the hell are large turrets going to do to a frigate or dessie at 1km? even if you decide to move your aiding them.. Fall off on a webs is dumb and you should feel dumb.. You should feel dumb for thinking that BS should be able to solo frigates. Bonused painters can make it happen on any of the BS's with bonuses to tracking.
What ship do you use to SOLO frigates with a battleship with bonus to both tracking and TP? |
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Legion
17509
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Posted - 2016.03.10 22:08:52 -
[333] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Poranius Fisc wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Alysha Saronn wrote:Fozzie, can you do us all a favor here at eve and just leave the pvp and game design/balancing to someone who actually plays the damn game... I mean what the hell are you even thinking? 1km optimal web? are the devs and ccp stoned? What the hell are large turrets going to do to a frigate or dessie at 1km? even if you decide to move your aiding them.. Fall off on a webs is dumb and you should feel dumb.. You should feel dumb for thinking that BS should be able to solo frigates. Bonused painters can make it happen on any of the BS's with bonuses to tracking. What ship do you use to SOLO frigates with a battleship with bonus to both tracking and TP?
Technically the Golem I guess. |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
1103
|
Posted - 2016.03.11 12:00:44 -
[334] - Quote
Alysha Saronn wrote:Fozzie, can you do us all a favor here at eve and just leave the pvp and game design/balancing to someone who actually plays the damn game... I mean what the hell are you even thinking? 1km optimal web? are the devs and ccp stoned? What the hell are large turrets going to do to a frigate or dessie at 1km? even if you decide to move your aiding them.. Fall off on a webs is dumb and you should feel dumb..
This reads to me as "I will ignore significant part of proposed solution because I don't like it for subjective reasons (also insert an insult of choice), and then complain that what is left of that solution doesn't work".
Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
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Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
760
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Posted - 2016.03.11 14:24:42 -
[335] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Poranius Fisc wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Alysha Saronn wrote:Fozzie, can you do us all a favor here at eve and just leave the pvp and game design/balancing to someone who actually plays the damn game... I mean what the hell are you even thinking? 1km optimal web? are the devs and ccp stoned? What the hell are large turrets going to do to a frigate or dessie at 1km? even if you decide to move your aiding them.. Fall off on a webs is dumb and you should feel dumb.. You should feel dumb for thinking that BS should be able to solo frigates. Bonused painters can make it happen on any of the BS's with bonuses to tracking. What ship do you use to SOLO frigates with a battleship with bonus to both tracking and TP?
I mean.. its really not hard to murder frigs in a battleship. You just fit for it.
Missile BS are especially good at this. RHML is the obvious choice. But with webs/missile computer even cruise missiles apply decently. Just last night i killed a dual RF MSE svipul with my cruise phoon. Before that i killed a dual rep a-type confessor with cruise missiles. Frigs arent hard to kill.
But when you only have a long point and web (or grappler) then complain about not applying, thats your own fault. Same principle when people brick tank drakes. "Drakes/HAMs suck because they dont apply when all i fit is a scram" but have a 100k EHP tank. Fit for frig killing and you can kill them easily as well as everything else except other battleships. And its not like BS are as common as frig/cruiser gangs, so its a fair trade in the current meta.
Other turret ships like the pest also work well because they can neut out frigs as they close in, preventing them from scramming. I recently killed a dual prop dram and dual prop mal with my pest because i nuked their cap and then pulled range to pop them.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
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Poranius Fisc
State War Academy
Caldari State
29
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Posted - 2016.03.15 18:50:45 -
[336] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Poranius Fisc wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Alysha Saronn wrote:Fozzie, can you do us all a favor here at eve and just leave the pvp and game design/balancing to someone who actually plays the damn game... I mean what the hell are you even thinking? 1km optimal web? are the devs and ccp stoned? What the hell are large turrets going to do to a frigate or dessie at 1km? even if you decide to move your aiding them.. Fall off on a webs is dumb and you should feel dumb.. You should feel dumb for thinking that BS should be able to solo frigates. Bonused painters can make it happen on any of the BS's with bonuses to tracking. What ship do you use to SOLO frigates with a battleship with bonus to both tracking and TP?
2 accounts.
A belicose or any bonused painter ship is going to massively help a BS hit a frigate. in the case of a sniper DOmi, it will insta pop them. |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
760
|
Posted - 2016.03.15 21:18:08 -
[337] - Quote
Poranius Fisc wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Poranius Fisc wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Alysha Saronn wrote:Fozzie, can you do us all a favor here at eve and just leave the pvp and game design/balancing to someone who actually plays the damn game... I mean what the hell are you even thinking? 1km optimal web? are the devs and ccp stoned? What the hell are large turrets going to do to a frigate or dessie at 1km? even if you decide to move your aiding them.. Fall off on a webs is dumb and you should feel dumb.. You should feel dumb for thinking that BS should be able to solo frigates. Bonused painters can make it happen on any of the BS's with bonuses to tracking. What ship do you use to SOLO frigates with a battleship with bonus to both tracking and TP? 2 accounts. A belicose or any bonused painter ship is going to massively help a BS hit a frigate. in the case of a sniper DOmi, it will insta pop them.
to be fair, he did specifically state "ship" in the singular, and then followed-up with solo. A bellicose+domi combo is neither of those things.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
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Poranius Fisc
State War Academy
Caldari State
29
|
Posted - 2016.03.15 21:54:09 -
[338] - Quote
[quote=Stitch Kaneland
to be fair, he did specifically state "ship" in the singular, and then followed-up with solo. A bellicose+domi combo is neither of those things.[/quote]
It stated a solo friagte, nothing about you being solo. |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
760
|
Posted - 2016.03.15 22:45:28 -
[339] - Quote
Poranius Fisc wrote:
It stated a solo frigate, nothing about you being solo.
Where do people get this whole "honor fight at the sun" thing?
No... no it didnt.
It stated:
Quote:What ship do you use to SOLO frigates with a battleship with bonus to both tracking and TP?
Maybe the better way to read it would be "what battleship would you use to solo frigates with, that has a bonus to tracking and TP?"
This isn't an honor "fight at sun" kind of thing. Its a reading comprehension thing. Solo tends to be pretty specific, as in 1 ship/account fighting. Not, "i have a 15man bomber gang being multiboxed by 1 person, so i'm still solo lulz".
I see the whole conversation, and you mentioned:
Quote:Bonused painters can make it happen on any of the BS's with bonuses to tracking.
Which led to the previous statement, because it made it sound like you were talking about a single ship that has a bonus to target painters and tracking.
Even the original statement mentions:
Quote:You should feel dumb for thinking that BS should be able to solo frigates.
Implying that the topic is a SOLO battleship killing frigates
Disclaimer: I probably put more effort into this response than needed, but i'm bored.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
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Poranius Fisc
State War Academy
Caldari State
29
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Posted - 2016.03.15 23:48:18 -
[340] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:Poranius Fisc wrote:
It stated a solo frigate, nothing about you being solo.
Where do people get this whole "honor fight at the sun" thing?
No... no it didnt. It stated: Quote:What ship do you use to SOLO frigates with a battleship with bonus to both tracking and TP? Maybe the better way to read it would be "what battleship would you use to solo frigates with, that has a bonus to tracking and TP?" This isn't an honor "fight at sun" kind of thing. Its a reading comprehension thing. Solo tends to be pretty specific, as in 1 ship/account fighting. Not, "i have a 15man bomber gang being multiboxed by 1 person, so i'm still solo lulz". I see the whole conversation, and you mentioned: Quote:Bonused painters can make it happen on any of the BS's with bonuses to tracking. Which led to the previous statement, because it made it sound like you were talking about a single ship that has a bonus to target painters and tracking. Even the original statement mentions: Quote:You should feel dumb for thinking that BS should be able to solo frigates. Implying that the topic is a SOLO battleship killing frigates Disclaimer: I probably put more effort into this response than needed, but i'm bored.
in that case, the grapler will never work, even on a gheddon (have to check if it even fits with nuets) unless the fool was dumb enough to get that close. than you'd ignore the target painter.
2 accounts running 2 ships is not multi boxing 15 bombers. thats a pretty far right comparison. EIther way, i threw off origional topic involving the new grapplers, which wont help you in a solo situation.
Removing the painters and multiboxing 15 bombers, perhaps this might be more useful on BS's holding cap's to stop them from re-entering a POS shield, or something like that. they allready move very slowly so IF you can hold and bump them further out, the speed reduction makes them crawl even more.. 1 would probable be enough with others having a backup as you bump them further out.
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Ace Lapointe
Duty.
Mighty Wings.
59
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Posted - 2016.03.16 00:23:51 -
[341] - Quote
Terraj Oknatis wrote:I just tried the T2 grappler on the test server with a rapid heavy raven VS a Claw orbiting at 20km with a long point as tackle.
The grappler increased the damage to the interceptor from 12 per hit to 18 per hit on missiles.
The drones did a little better but a good interceptor should still be able to hold down a battle ship no problem while eliminating drones.
In my opinion this moduel is not strong enough to counter a cetpor orbiting at 4k at 20 KM.
The myth that the moduel would slightly change the frigs orbit enough to get good hits is false. There was no major disruption in the orbit of the interceptor, and its speed was only slightly decreased.
If you wanted to counter ceptors then increase the effective range of heavy nuets so that you could eventually turn off their prop.
This web is not working the way everyone thinks it should be working.
A 50% increase against a Ceptor, something even Cruisers stuggle to deal with effectively.. And your complaining? Jesus, your a hard one to please. |
FT Cold
FUITA
Dead Terrorists
54
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Posted - 2016.03.16 07:11:45 -
[342] - Quote
Poranius Fisc wrote:
in that case, the grapler will never work, even on a gheddon (have to check if it even fits with nuets) unless the fool was dumb enough to get that close. than you'd ignore the target painter.
One of the biggest upshots of the battleship class now is the MJD, which means that to prevent you from moonwalking out of any fight, someone is going to have to scram you, and when they do, queue the stasis grappler. They're not fools for wanting to scram you, they have to scram you to get a fight. |
Yun Kuai
Justified Chaos
Spaceship Bebop
290
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Posted - 2016.03.16 13:09:19 -
[343] - Quote
FT Cold wrote:Poranius Fisc wrote:
in that case, the grapler will never work, even on a gheddon (have to check if it even fits with nuets) unless the fool was dumb enough to get that close. than you'd ignore the target painter.
One of the biggest upshots of the battleship class now is the MJD, which means that to prevent you from moonwalking out of any fight, someone is going to have to scram you, and when they do, queue the stasis grappler. They're not fools for wanting to scram you, they have to scram you to get a fight.
While in reality that sounds how it should be and sounds like all is working as intended, but the point is they can still scram you from OH scram range and then coast out of that grappler's 10km+ falloff; read ineffective, web and it does nothing since now the BS is stuck for 3mins waiting for the MJD cooldown to finish. For these webs to truly benefit BS classes, especially given their fitting and cap requirements, these need to be significantly better than the average t2 web at 10km, and then start having falloff and decreased effective go from there.
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FT Cold
FUITA
Dead Terrorists
54
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Posted - 2016.03.16 17:31:48 -
[344] - Quote
Yun Kuai wrote:FT Cold wrote:Poranius Fisc wrote:
in that case, the grapler will never work, even on a gheddon (have to check if it even fits with nuets) unless the fool was dumb enough to get that close. than you'd ignore the target painter.
One of the biggest upshots of the battleship class now is the MJD, which means that to prevent you from moonwalking out of any fight, someone is going to have to scram you, and when they do, queue the stasis grappler. They're not fools for wanting to scram you, they have to scram you to get a fight. While in reality that sounds how it should be and sounds like all is working as intended, but the point is they can still scram you from OH scram range and then coast out of that grappler's 10km+ falloff; read ineffective, web and it does nothing since now the BS is stuck for 3mins waiting for the MJD cooldown to finish. For these webs to truly benefit BS classes, especially given their fitting and cap requirements, these need to be significantly better than the average t2 web at 10km, and then start having falloff and decreased effective go from there.
If they're in scram range then they're in neut optimal. Shut down their scram and warp, or turn on your mwd and murderzone them. Besides, not everything trying to scram you is going to be a ceptor with an overheated republic fleet scram and links or is Chessur and manually piloting in a tight cone under your ship. These weren't made to replace webs, just to be an alternative to them or to be paired with them on dual web setups. Because you can point out an instance where they don't perform well doesn't mean they can't work well at all. Seems to me like they're working as intended. |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
764
|
Posted - 2016.03.16 19:47:53 -
[345] - Quote
When kiting in a BS (without links) im going to take the grappler over standard web everytime. A standard web with heat is only 13km. Take almost any frigate/inty and 3km of buffer is nothing. Frig will just coast through and scram. At least with the grappler i can start slowing them down at 20km and then OH it around 15km and slow them about the same as a standard web. This doesnt even touch on neuts. Combining neuts and grappler is a good way to pop frigs coming in to scram.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
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Sgt Ocker
Kenshin.
DARKNESS.
859
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Posted - 2016.03.16 20:21:56 -
[346] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:When kiting in a BS (without links) im going to take the grappler over standard web everytime. A standard web with heat is only 13km. Take almost any frigate/inty and 3km of buffer is nothing. Frig will just coast through and scram. At least with the grappler i can start slowing them down at 20km and then OH it around 15km and slow them about the same as a standard web. This doesnt even touch on neuts. Combining neuts and grappler is a good way to pop frigs coming in to scram.
And because ceptors always travel alone...........
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
764
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Posted - 2016.03.16 20:29:12 -
[347] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Stitch Kaneland wrote:When kiting in a BS (without links) im going to take a grappler over a standard web everytime. A standard web with heat is only 13km. Take almost any frigate/inty and 3km of buffer is nothing. Frig will just coast through and scram. At least with the grappler i can start slowing them down at 20km and then OH it around 15km and slow them about the same as a standard web. This doesnt even touch on neuts. Combining neuts and grappler is a good way to pop frigs coming in to scram. And because ceptors always travel alone...........
Ceptors are the fastest ships in the game. So unless its a ceptor blob (which isnt unheard of), the rest of the ships will be well behind the ceptor. Making it easy to single him out for easy popping.
This taking into account youre not warping to gates at 0 and actually being cautious of camps or local spikes. Not much you can do if youre on the receiving end of a gate camp. But if you have a gamg chasing you, warping at 100km from a gate for positioning works much better than landing at zero and trying to outrun frigs/ceptors.
Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS
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Beta Maoye
108
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Posted - 2016.03.17 18:20:36 -
[348] - Quote
Optimal range is too low. The size of a battleship is already 1km. Minimum orbit range is about 2-3km. A little bit increase in optimal range to 2km would fit its purpose. |
Ace Lapointe
Duty.
Mighty Wings.
67
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Posted - 2016.03.17 22:17:00 -
[349] - Quote
Beta Maoye wrote:Optimal range is too low. The size of a battleship is already 1km. Minimum orbit range is about 2-3km. A little bit increase in optimal range to 2km would fit its purpose.
I used this last night in combination with a Single Scram, I held and killed a Pontifex at 5km, and it wasn't moving at all, also locked down a Machariel at 5km but he managed to get on the gate to de-aggressed and jumped.
The thing works amazingly, if you have used it you would have noticed, works lovely in duels, and in tournaments too, just watch the Spectre Fleet tournamnet comming up, almost every Battleship will be fitted with one over the standard web, and plus, Battleships don't uses Webs to control range against Frigates and Cruisers, we use them to slow the target down enough to Apply more DPS, not to dictate, you can only dictate in a BS fight against other BS's, but then that is stupid as the shortest range BS guns will hit fine at 10-20km, so that makes the Web a moot point of dictation. |
Rapscallion Jones
Omnibus Solutions
86
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Posted - 2016.04.08 18:03:54 -
[350] - Quote
Please, oh please, OH PLEASE! Let us fit these to Barge/Exhumer hulls. My Skiffs pilots are hungry for this one! |
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Luscius Uta
Anomalous Existence
Low-Class
211
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Posted - 2016.04.27 12:42:38 -
[351] - Quote
Considering that they don't benefit from Web-bonused hulls nor from warfare links, I think it might not be a terrible idea to introduce a rig that increases their strength or range.
Workarounds are not bugfixes.
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Ace Lapointe
Duty.
Mighty Wings.
74
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Posted - 2016.04.29 00:48:51 -
[352] - Quote
Luscius Uta wrote:Considering that they don't benefit from Web-bonused hulls nor from warfare links, I think it might not be a terrible idea to introduce a rig that increases their strength or range.
CCP! THIS! ALL OF THIS! :D |
darkneko
Black Cat mining Inc.
8
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Posted - 2016.05.23 04:39:46 -
[353] - Quote
Someone may have asked this. But are they targeted or aoe? |
Lugh Crow-Slave
2612
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Posted - 2016.05.23 06:34:13 -
[354] - Quote
darkneko wrote:Someone may have asked this. But are they targeted or aoe?
.... targeted.. why not just use one?
Citadel worm hole tax
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