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Pyrasanth
Boa Innovations Brothers of Tangra
11
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Posted - 2016.04.22 21:53:53 -
[631] - Quote
Some things need to be protected. Eve was the "Amazon rain forest" of the gaming world- unique and irreplaceable- now a bull dozer has been unleashed & the forest is getting flattened.
I have a lot of skill points. I wont move them, sell them or inject them from elsewhere. The achievement is uniquely mine as to how they were earnt & honed & money can't buy that feeling. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
10191
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Posted - 2016.04.22 23:00:08 -
[632] - Quote
I too love The Walking Dead.
Not enough to to live it vicariously through resurrecting long dead threads though.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
725
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Posted - 2016.04.23 13:32:49 -
[633] - Quote
That eliteness... someone hunt him down and gank him by showing up with n+1 please.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
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Rin Vocaloid2
DUST University Ivy League
11
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Posted - 2016.04.23 18:39:06 -
[634] - Quote
PsiMin wrote:Lathael wrote:This destroys a lot for me. Ouch.
Can someone do the math for me and tell me how much that costs?
Thx in advance *sigh* around 1.8trillon isk you can have a maxed char, CCP has destroyed this game as its now P2W, if you have the isk you can have max chars
I didn't know having a lot of money equates to knowing how to fly a capital ship. |
Frederick Nurks
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
22
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Posted - 2016.04.24 02:26:55 -
[635] - Quote
Just to add my disgust level to this thread, For how it makes my slow grind to get skill points absolutely worthless, yes there is other parts of the game, but when I reached Lvl 5 in anything I thought I had accomplished something,
P2W - now if you have enough isk, not much is stopping you putting the ship and bits you want. CPP: may as well just drop skillpoints totaly and just charge an extra $'s on subscription.
-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-á-----OOOOO----
EVE - Where everyone encourages you to play anyway you like, as long as it is the way they play.
I just think wine bottles should bigger, so there is enough to share.
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Mr M
Sebiestor Tribe
465
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Posted - 2016.04.24 04:23:01 -
[636] - Quote
Don't care. Those armour skills won't help him when he shield tanks, and the processing skills won't help him at all.
Share your experience
Write for the EVE Tribune
www.eve-tribune.com
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
54149
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Posted - 2016.04.24 08:31:54 -
[637] - Quote
Nat Silverguard wrote:Edwin Rothbard wrote:Linus Gorp wrote:nor does it really give you an advantage.. I'm sure new pilots with 400k sp will agree that having max skills conveys no extra advantages such as trading skills, PI skills, production skills, research skills, ability to fit t2 modules, fits you can actually use because you don't have all the pg/cpu restrictions, or the ability to hop in and fly any ship you like right now. Just because someone doesn't have experience flying a particular ship doesn't mean it's not an advantage to be able to fly it. Your assertion that having max skills isn't an advantage is nonsense. so what if he can use T2 mods and ship if he doesn't know how to use it or if nobody plays with him? check lowsec especially FW deaths, notice that even veteran players uses T1 ships with mixed T1/T2 mods? infact, i don't see you, a 2007 character, flying OP or expensive ships yourself to have an advantage over others and you have plenty of SP, why? if having more SP is such of an advantage, why are you in particular, not showing it? Having more Skill Points has been and always will be the deciding factor when doing balanced 1v1.
A couple years ago when CCP had that big 3 stage Exploration / Sight Seeing contest, one of the tasks was to take a screenshot of your pod on fire. I had never really done any PvP and a friend of mine with lot's of PvP experience agreed to help me accomplish that task without exploding my pod.
He offered to give me a few lessons on PvP solo engagement while helping me to accomplish my task. We got set up in a secluded system out in deep space in the same type of Rookie ship with the same exact fit up. While this was happening we noticed that my ship was dealing more DPS as well as repping more damage than his ship. My ship was also able to hit his ship while traveling faster in a much larger orbit than his ship.
It didn't take long to figure out that I had way more Skill Points in all of the basic skill groups which affected ship operations, defense and offense. Course we weren't using any EWAR, Drones or OGB, etc. Both of us had the same basic set up doing basic engagement tactics.
In the end we realized that while experience can be gained rather quickly, it's the one with more Skill Points that will always be more effective.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
148
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Posted - 2016.04.24 10:22:31 -
[638] - Quote
It would be ironic to inject enough skillpoints to use 1400mm artillery effectively.
It's tempting...
A signature :o
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Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
427
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Posted - 2016.04.24 10:48:39 -
[639] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Nat Silverguard wrote:Edwin Rothbard wrote:Linus Gorp wrote:nor does it really give you an advantage.. I'm sure new pilots with 400k sp will agree that having max skills conveys no extra advantages such as trading skills, PI skills, production skills, research skills, ability to fit t2 modules, fits you can actually use because you don't have all the pg/cpu restrictions, or the ability to hop in and fly any ship you like right now. Just because someone doesn't have experience flying a particular ship doesn't mean it's not an advantage to be able to fly it. Your assertion that having max skills isn't an advantage is nonsense. so what if he can use T2 mods and ship if he doesn't know how to use it or if nobody plays with him? check lowsec especially FW deaths, notice that even veteran players uses T1 ships with mixed T1/T2 mods? infact, i don't see you, a 2007 character, flying OP or expensive ships yourself to have an advantage over others and you have plenty of SP, why? if having more SP is such of an advantage, why are you in particular, not showing it? Having more Skill Points has been and always will be the deciding factor when doing balanced 1v1. A couple years ago when CCP had that big 3 stage Exploration / Sight Seeing contest, one of the tasks was to take a screenshot of your pod on fire. I had never really done any PvP and a friend of mine with lot's of PvP experience agreed to help me accomplish that task without exploding my pod. He offered to give me a few lessons on PvP solo engagement while helping me to accomplish my task. We got set up in a secluded system out in deep space in the same type of Rookie ship with the same exact fit up. While this was happening we noticed that my ship was dealing more DPS as well as repping more damage than his ship. My ship was also able to hit his ship while traveling faster in a much larger orbit than his ship. It didn't take long to figure out that I had way more Skill Points in all of the basic skill groups which affected ship operations, defense and offense. Course we weren't using any EWAR, Drones or OGB, etc. Both of us had the same basic set up doing basic engagement tactics. In the end we realized that while experience can be gained rather quickly, it's the one with more Skill Points that will always be more effective. DMC
and how often do you find or experience a balanced 1v1 in EvE? o.O
again, still don't see anybody dominating and slaughtering everybody with his max SP characters.
Just Add Water
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
9214
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Posted - 2016.04.24 10:52:50 -
[640] - Quote
PvP and 1vs 1 generally will never be balanced because people are not balanced.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
427
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Posted - 2016.04.24 13:18:08 -
[641] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote:That eliteness... someone hunt him down and gank him by showing up with n+1 please.
who IronBank? you do know he is one of the guy who paid MBC to kicked you out of dek right?
Just Add Water
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
5091
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Posted - 2016.04.24 13:30:00 -
[642] - Quote
Nat Silverguard wrote:Amyclas Amatin wrote:That eliteness... someone hunt him down and gank him by showing up with n+1 please. who IronBank? you do know he is one of the guy who paid MBC to kicked you out of dek right?
The IWI banker behind the war is LennyKravitz2, actually. But yeah. Elite or not elite, those guys are spending 900 billion a week to keep the war going on. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17697
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Posted - 2016.04.24 13:46:03 -
[643] - Quote
Frederick Nurks wrote:Just to add my disgust level to this thread, For how it makes my slow grind to get skill points absolutely worthless, yes there is other parts of the game, but when I reached Lvl 5 in anything I thought I had accomplished something...
Yeah nah, that's not the way to look at it. Really mate, EVE is about the stories. Some people buy books and skip through to the end to see what happens; that doesn't make it "worthless" for me to read the whole book. Some people would rather take a helicopter ride to the top of the mountain than climb it; that doesn't make it worthless for you to acheive that for yourself.
I'm not the one being cheated in that scenario with the book. You've lost nothing with this if you play the game your way and forget that guy.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
54236
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Posted - 2016.04.28 01:18:58 -
[644] - Quote
Nat Silverguard wrote:
and how often do you find or experience a balanced 1v1 in EvE? o.O
again, still don't see anybody dominating and slaughtering everybody with his max SP characters.
Regardless of experience, a player with max skills and top of the line ship fit will dominate and slaughter anyone in 1v1 encounters.
To think otherwise is just foolish.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Caldari Citizen 115-16-18737
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.04.28 09:50:31 -
[645] - Quote
I'd always wondered what the circumstances of someone maxing out their SP would be. I imagined it would be an event, with some build-up toward the moment when the character in question would "tick over." I never imagined that it would simply come down to an ISk transaction. No fanfare, no mention, just cha-ching and there you go.
As others have said: really sad. Massive anti-climax.
But at least it couldn't have happened to a nicer person...right? |
lollerwaffle
Black Serpent Technologies The-Culture
286
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Posted - 2016.04.28 10:59:01 -
[646] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote: Regardless of experience, a player with max skills and top of the line ship fit will dominate and slaughter anyone in 1v1 encounters.
To think otherwise is just foolish.
DMC
Sure. |
Pinkylein
Rolling Static
7
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Posted - 2016.04.28 11:16:15 -
[647] - Quote
It is interesting how many ppl are affected by this what happened. Yes he maxed out skills, but he's actually not even really playing anymore afaik, but only doing some non-ship-based stuff ...
And he did it probably not even because to show you how good he is, but maybe just because he's so bored of the game, that there was literally nothing anymore that he could do to make the evening exciting in eve. Just an assumption ...
At the end, there is a limit with all the injectors that can be done. There is this one and there might be some others. But since SP is lost, everytime someone is injecting or extracting, except of some very low-SP cases, even money cannot buy everything at the end. There is a limit of how much SP can be extracted in a short amount of time, as there will be a moment, nobody has anything more to extract, and from that moment, they either need to create new chars to gain SP ... which then ... take time ... or accounts need to be destroyed that were not planned to be destroyed in the first place, so someone else can put that SP into his account.
So ... Pay2Win ... maybe ... but only for the time, until there are no injectors left.
From that moment ... everything works as usual. And the "some" guys that did inject to get ALL the skills ... will probably not be seen on the field and we might just know "there is one ..." but we more appreciate those ppl anyways that write in reddit or forum something like "yay \o/ i did it ... Minmatar Dread V after ... many months or whatever" ... and life goes on from that moment and we all know "that is the eve we like and play" :)
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Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1427
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Posted - 2016.07.17 00:55:22 -
[648] - Quote
Scott Dracov wrote: will degrade their product any way they can to get more it seems.
Ideal Capitalism is where you are under pressure from competitors to improve your product and so out-do the competition. Real Capitalism is where you work to abolish both the employee and the customer, as far as they are involved with profit. Ideal Capitalism is where your product becomes necessary to the consumer so much so that it is in your interest to degrade the customer, forever receiving more for less. The best food is made by the person dedicated to making good food. The most profit is made by the schmuck who figures "hell people gotta eat" and so wrings a buck out of that need, with no real motivation to make food. Marketing is how you are informed that the second guy is a genius and a great man.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4957
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Posted - 2016.07.17 05:04:07 -
[649] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote: Ideal Capitalism is where you are under pressure from competitors to improve your product and so out-do the competition.
Yes.
Quote:Real Capitalism is where you work to abolish both the employee and the customer, as far as they are involved with profit.
No.
Quote:Ideal Capitalism is where your product becomes necessary to the consumer so much so that it is in your interest to degrade the customer, forever receiving more for less.
No.
Quote:The best food is made by the person dedicated to making good food. The most profit is made by the schmuck who figures "hell people gotta eat" and so wrings a buck out of that need, with no real motivation to make food. Marketing is how you are informed that the second guy is a genius and a great man.
No.
You started out so well, then went totally off the rails.
Oh...and why exactly are you necroing this thread?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Valkin Mordirc
2187
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Posted - 2016.07.17 05:30:29 -
[650] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Regardless of experience, a player with max skills and top of the line ship fit will dominate and slaughter anyone in 1v1 encounters.
To think otherwise is just foolish.
DMC
Hardly.
As EVE stands right now. Even with Max skills, it's entierly possible a player who understand the mechanics of combat for EVE would or could easily kill a maxxed SP player.
I've personally met a large amount of players who still think all you do is orbit at 500 and press F1.
#DeleteTheWeak
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
55715
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Posted - 2016.07.17 19:38:52 -
[651] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Regardless of experience, a player with max skills and top of the line ship fit will dominate and slaughter anyone in 1v1 encounters.
To think otherwise is just foolish.
DMC
Hardly. As EVE stands right now. Even with Max skills, it's entierly possible a player who understand the mechanics of combat for EVE would or could easily kill a maxxed SP player. I've personally met a large amount of players who still think all you do is orbit at 500 and press F1. Experience can be gained real quickly whereas skill points take time to accumulate. Well, it use to take time, now all it takes is money and anyone can have a max skilled character using top of the line equipment in less than a week. Which is exactly what this thread is all about.
Anyway as for your statement, gotta call BS on it. That same old story, same old song and dance propaganda crap is constantly told to new players on their first day in game. By the end of their Trial period they quickly realize it's just BS..
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1430
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Posted - 2016.07.17 23:52:05 -
[652] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: You started out so well, then went totally off the rails.
You must think so because you disagree with something i said. Single word contradictions have to be ignored, since a valid response would be to answer No with Yes. Opinionated people yelling yes and no at each other is a version of hell best avoided.
Teckos Pech wrote:Oh...and why exactly are you necroing this thread?
I read a post by someone, looked at their other posts, saw one i just had to quote because i thought it important. In a way, forums are for venting neuroses and not really important.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
258
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Posted - 2016.07.18 00:34:13 -
[653] - Quote
CCP is getting more aggressive in the harpooning of whales.
EVE has been P2W ever since the first multiboxed mining fleet happened. There are a lot of players out there who will see P2W, turn, and leave. We don't get to scam them, we don't get to blow them up. They see the game tried to sell them an in-game advantage for money, and they're just gone. They don't get to see the insane cross-play of all the toys we can put on our ships. They've seen what this does to games, and they know better to get into another one which even looks like it does this.
A signature :o
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Valkin Mordirc
2190
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Posted - 2016.07.18 12:50:32 -
[654] - Quote
Quote: Experience can be gained real quickly whereas skill points take time to accumulate. Well, it use to take time, now all it takes is money and anyone can have a max skilled character using top of the line equipment in less than a week. Which is exactly what this thread is all about.
Knowledge on how to properly use mechanics and the understanding of mechanics is independent to the person trying to apply them. Multiple factors act as hindrance, or promotion in how an individual learns and uses the knowledge to great or dismissed effects.
I've seen players who have been told multiple times that a certain idea is bad, that what they are trying to accomplish is better done with something else. One of which was around my area of SP, but he was dual tanking Ravens and trying to run a Charon into lowsec, not matter how many times people told him he wouldn't listen.
Regardless of these factors these types of players are in EVE. Don't discount stupidity.
So in extreme, A player with maxxed SP, could easily be bested by another simply because he hasn't had the time to learn about the game proper. Or he's just plain stupid. Or ignorant and stuck on his own ideals. Since you seem to thing that what I say is Propaganda and Bullshit. It should be fairly easy for you to believe that one may be so stuck in his own ideals that he would refuse to see logical reason.
Also a player who has been around long enough to have 100mil SP, will undoubtable destroy the newbie who buys is way into 100mil SP. You seriously can not believe that literal Day Zero Player will have the ability to beat a 10-year BitterVet.
Even if both are give a local tanked thorax. Are told to fight. Do you honestly thing Day Zero will know how to handle cap management? Or how to use Orbit and Keep at range effectively? Do you think his reactions to DPS and Drones will be fast enough to keep up with a bittervet?
Quote:Anyway as for your statement, gotta call BS on it. That same old story, same old song and dance propaganda crap is constantly told to new players on their first day in game. By the end of their Trial period they quickly realize it's just BS..
DMC
Same old Story, Same old Dance. People repeat what they believe. Just because you have a disagreement with such does not turn it into propaganda.
It's just a certain majorities opinion, or a few vocal minorities.
I honestly from my time in EVE, that after 25mil SP a player can accomplish anything he wants just as long as he makes sure his cards are set in his favor.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Jean Luc Clermont
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
19
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Posted - 2016.07.18 13:39:50 -
[655] - Quote
You know...
It's a lot of ISK to wave your e-peen about really, after all.. Very few Keepstars in the game so far so, being able to fly all those Supers is next to pointless currently.
I'm a jealous of his ISK, well yeah.. to be honest I am. Would i spend it like this, if i had it? Nah, not really, cos like i said, i don't see that point.
I'd still fight this toon 1v1, cos skill points and money don't make you a better player. A year old 12mil sp toon could match him in any frig, dessie or cruiser, I have toons that would match him in BSes too
I guess some folks will spend money just to show off, we see this all day, every day in RL.
One other thing that i would like to make comment on having read many of the replies..
Eve is now and has always been a game where wealth increases your chance of a win... from year dot.
More over it has been P2W ever since they introduced PLEX to the game.
Let's be straight about it, the only real winner here is CCP |
Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
215
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Posted - 2016.07.18 14:27:21 -
[656] - Quote
SP definitely has an affect on a players ability to survive and win in a fight. Sometimes it is enough alone to give that player an edge over their opponent(s). Sometimes it isnt. It is similar to blobbing. Sometimes blobbing is enough to give an edge over an opponent and sometimes it isnt.
In all cases, more SP is an advantage. It is still not god mode though. A 500 mil sp character can be beat by a 20 mil sp character. You can only max out so many skills that apply to your particular situation, so in the grand scheme of things having 500 mil sp doesnt make you any more special than the next guy because you dont use all 500 mil of that sp at the same time in the same situation.
I actually have a good example for this. I am currently training a noob up to be a ratter so my main doesnt havent to JC back and forth between my own space and deployment systems. I am training him very specifically for this task. When i am done training him he will have the same ability to do this task using the same ship as my main. In this situation they are equal even though my main will have 10-15 times more SP than him when all is said and done.
SP only matters to the point that it applies to the situation. All that other SP my main has doesnt apply to this situation, so he has no added benefit over my noob. At this point it comes down to the actual skills of the person and the decisions they make.
Now if my main was actually a new player who injected to that level. And my noob was me who just started a new character to play with that player. I can guarantee you, that i will perform better than he will because i have the experience and knowledge of game mechanics. Where as he has little to no clue. And experience is something you can only buy with time. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4961
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Posted - 2016.07.18 17:59:02 -
[657] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: You started out so well, then went totally off the rails.
You must think so because you disagree with something i said. Single word contradictions have to be ignored, since a valid response would be to answer No with Yes. Opinionated people yelling yes and no at each other is a version of hell best avoided. Teckos Pech wrote:Oh...and why exactly are you necroing this thread? I read a post by someone, looked at their other posts, saw one i just had to quote because i thought it important. In a way, forums are for venting neuroses and not really important.
First off, one word responses were sufficient because the vapid nature of what you wrote. Such as abolishing the customer. No customer no sale, no sale no money, no money no firm. Pretty simple really.
Also under capitalism trade is mutually beneficial, or is at least perceived to be a priori. If it were not why are you so stupid to engage in the exchange?
Also, one of the biggest things one can do to improve profitability is to be innovative. Innovation results in alot more output in general than merely engaging in standard cost cutting. Firms that are innovative tend to be much more profitable than firms that are just doing the usual cost cutting, producing the same old thing.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
437
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Posted - 2016.07.18 18:40:17 -
[658] - Quote
Robin wrote:Holy Zombie-Thread Batman!
To those talking about Capitalism, please stop, you're making my brain hurt. There's no such thing as ideal Captialism because it's a free market and free means just that, open to everything. If there were any such thing as ideal Capitalism it would be "the trading of goods and services based upon agreed to terms and conditions". That's it. Anything else is perception based spin.
To those wanting to still discuss a Max-Out fluff toon... please, let this thread die again. Skill injectors are a fact of existence now. Let this thing go to bed. Start a different thread to debate toon skill vs. player skill.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
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Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1431
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Posted - 2016.07.19 00:12:50 -
[659] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: First off, one word responses were sufficient because the vapid nature of what you wrote.
Ok, sounds like a cool game. No. Your turn.
Teckos Pech wrote: Such as abolishing the customer. No customer no sale, no sale no money, no money no firm. Pretty simple really.
The customer and the employee are drains on profit and can be abolished insofar as they impact profit. You are simple, read different books.
Teckos Pech wrote:Also under capitalism trade is mutually beneficial, or is at least perceived to be a priori. If it were not why are you so stupid to engage in the exchange?
If i own the town you live in, the factory you work in, the hospital you were born in, every school, store, library, bank and water supply you use, you are not being stupid when you pay me for what you made, with your labor, using worthless tickets i issued to you as payment. You're just at a massive disadvantage.
Teckos Pech wrote:Also, one of the biggest things one can do to improve profitability is to be innovative. Innovation results in alot more output in general than merely engaging in standard cost cutting. Firms that are innovative tend to be much more profitable than firms that are just doing the usual cost cutting, producing the same old thing.
Now who's being vapid? "...one of the biggest things...a lot more output in general..." Innovation is a buzzword, profitability improves much more if you monopolize markets, destroy competitor's ability to operate and collude with others to behave like a cartel. Ever wonder why there's so many laws against things like that? Actually give it some thought, no snappy answer please, and remember that money is a form of rationing.
Teckos Pech wrote:Edit: Hell, your first paragraph/sentence is contradicted by your last paragraph.
McDonalds does more business and makes more profit than any 5-star resaurant, VHS was never as good as BETAMAX, the list of inferior products that pushed superior ones out of business is long, showing the difference between Ideal and Actual.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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John Volan
Volan Enterprises
24
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Posted - 2016.07.19 04:20:17 -
[660] - Quote
Oh look a huge yellow skillboard.
What an enormous waste of isk... couldn't he just go fly a leopard filled with a thousand plexes around Jita or something? |
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