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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
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Zrakor
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Posted - 2007.02.22 17:10:00 -
[1]
Could the more experienced mission runners on this forum please write down a list of 5 of the most difficult level 4 missions they have had to face. It would be much appreciated, thanks.
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Elsinaril
CHON THE R0NIN
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Posted - 2007.02.22 17:22:00 -
[2]
Blockade (vs DED) Worlds Collide (vs Sansha + Gallente) Mordus Headhunters Vengeance (vs Mordus) Angel Extravaganza (bonus level)
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Traak
CompleXion Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.22 17:23:00 -
[3]
1. Enemies abound 1 of 5: the warp scramblers and the DPS make it really tough. The risk coupled with the faction hit and the lack of bounties make me reject this every time, so I've never gone further in the storyline
2. Worlds Collide: Hard if you don't know what you're doing.
3. Blockade: Again, hard if you don't know what you're doing or if you trip the wrong ship. It's impossible to tell which is the trigger sometimes.
4. Angel Extravaganza: bonus room is the REAL hard part. Hardest of all rooms in any mission IMO.
5. Pirate Invasion: whole room aggro in nasty
Overall, any mission can be hard if you don't know what you're doing. Drones tripping whole room aggro make them harder. Gangs tripping whole room aggro make them harder. So, some of the ones I've listed *can* be "easy", but these are what I think are the "hardest". __________
Traak
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Tranvisor
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Posted - 2007.02.22 17:24:00 -
[4]
So this is the thread where we decide which missions get taken away from us. Well that's great, I love getting nerfed.
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Dammar
Amarr Ephorate
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Posted - 2007.02.22 17:33:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Tranvisor So this is the thread where we decide which missions get taken away from us. Well that's great, I love getting nerfed.
Oh yes, CCP is playin their game all right, haha.
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Elsinaril
CHON THE R0NIN
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Posted - 2007.02.22 17:36:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Dammar
Originally by: Tranvisor So this is the thread where we decide which missions get taken away from us. Well that's great, I love getting nerfed.
Oh yes, CCP is playin their game all right, haha.
Heads up, most of the missions I have listed are not available in the empire space anyway, so they can be hardly taken away from you
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Mastin Dragonfly
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.02.22 17:54:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Tranvisor So this is the thread where we decide which missions get taken away from us. Well that's great, I love getting nerfed.
True I guess, some missions are hard, but hard is fun as long as it's doable, asking us which cashcow missions we want removed from high sec is a tad odd...
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Ravenal
The Fated
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Posted - 2007.02.22 17:56:00 -
[8]
my guess goes with oveurs new dev blog about lvl5 agents - meaning the hardest level4 missions will become the easiest level 5 missions. . |
Exlegion
New Light Schism.
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Posted - 2007.02.22 18:01:00 -
[9]
And so the nerfing of level 4's begin... Again.
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Shadarle
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Posted - 2007.02.22 18:05:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Shadarle on 22/02/2007 18:29:13 I suggest everyone read the Dev blog before responding here, I should have too.
Yes, the hardest level 4's are being made level 5. Why? Because level 4's are being changed to be less difficult and level 5's are the new challenging missions for players.
So this nerfs level 4's yet.... but we will have level 5's to do if we want a challenge. So that works well for me.
World's Collide is definitely a more challenging level 4 if done incorrectly, but extremely easy if done correctly.
Tanking Setups Compared
Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained |
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Mastin Dragonfly
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.02.22 18:19:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Mastin Dragonfly on 22/02/2007 18:16:21 Sad thing is that the hard missions generally are hard because of either lag or drones causing mass agro. So if they want to make lvl 5s hard just put in a ton of objects and at least 50 ships per pocket that all agro and blow away your shield and armor before you're PC has loaded the area in.
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Exlegion
New Light Schism.
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Posted - 2007.02.22 18:38:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Exlegion on 22/02/2007 18:46:07
Originally by: Shadarle Edited by: Shadarle on 22/02/2007 18:29:13 I suggest everyone read the Dev blog before responding here, I should have too.
Yes, the hardest level 4's are being made level 5. Why? Because level 4's are being changed to be less difficult and level 5's are the new challenging missions for players.
So this nerfs level 4's yet.... but we will have level 5's to do if we want a challenge. So that works well for me.
World's Collide is definitely a more challenging level 4 if done incorrectly, but extremely easy if done correctly.
Level 4's will now be more like level 3's in diffculty. And level 5+'s will only be available in low/no sec. So yes, level 4 missions in high sec are getting the boot. It seems battleships will no longer be required in high sec.
Read here:
Oveur's Blog# 54
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Majin82
Caldari g guild
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Posted - 2007.02.22 18:51:00 -
[13]
Leave the level 4's alone! The hard ones are the only fun ones.
Just fill level 5's with Dreads ------------------------------------- The difference between a Pirate and an Anti-Pirate is that an Anti-Pirate fights ships fitted with guns!
Passive Drake For The Win |
Dolly Parton
Amarr 5punkorp Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.02.22 18:56:00 -
[14]
i will start attacking every dev i see if they screw with my LP by nerfing my lvl 4 agents. i have 350k LP, 3x different agents, and you will owe me 3 amarr navy BS if you do and i will collect.
now to your request
enemies abound pirate slaughter (gurista) all the others are not hard to me so there you go thats my list
*** Any comments made are mine and mine alone! *** |
WrathchildeVOTF
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Posted - 2007.02.22 18:59:00 -
[15]
...And there was much rejoicing.
Yay.
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Saldun Zexu
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Posted - 2007.02.22 19:24:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Saldun Zexu on 22/02/2007 19:22:43 I can't say which missions are hardest or easiest. all depends on which ship you on. all sansha's/blood raider's missions are easy when I fly on apoc
all angel's/gurista's missions are easy when I fly on raven
anyway, aggro whole room always "hard"
EDIT: please don't nerf Enemies Abound. I can do this mission with closed eye.
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Pakalolo
Tha Shiznit
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Posted - 2007.02.22 19:47:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Pakalolo on 22/02/2007 19:45:37 The only room that is even remotely difficult in a solo t2 fitted raven is lvl4 AE bonus. I run Gallente (Quafe) and Minmatar (Republic Fleet).
Many of the lower lvl missions are harder because you are limited by ship class. Most fun ever was doing lvl3s in a cruise rifter with mwd (to reload).
The top 5 will become lvl5 agent missions?
edit: add url
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Sivlar Sylvannathas
Gallente Placid Reborn
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Posted - 2007.02.22 19:51:00 -
[18]
As the last poster said, a lot seems to depend on what ship you fly. I fly a Domi so the drones causing entire stages to mass aggro I hope will be addressed one day. Some friends that fly Ravens seem to have less trouble on these missions.
Hard Missions (for me at least)
Worlds Collide (Serpentis/Guristas) - Mass Stage Aggros
Pirates Slaughter (Angel Cartel) - Mass Stage Aggros
Smuggler Interception (Angel Cartel) - I find the new version of this mission with the REV patch to be a royal pain. Entire stage aggros when you attack and doesn't seem to be broken up into groups of rats. Just one big blob of angel ships.
Angel Extravaganza - The bonus rooms is especially crazy. |
Mastin Dragonfly
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.02.22 20:35:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Pakalolo Edited by: Pakalolo on 22/02/2007 19:45:37 The only room that is even remotely difficult in a solo t2 fitted raven is lvl4 AE bonus. I run Gallente (Quafe) and Minmatar (Republic Fleet).
Many of the lower lvl missions are harder because you are limited by ship class. Most fun ever was doing lvl3s in a cruise rifter with mwd (to reload).
The top 5 will become lvl5 agent missions?
edit: add url
Not everybody wants to fly that ugly piece of scrapmetal.
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Ghan Tylous
Caldari The Graduates Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.02.22 20:57:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Elsinaril Blockade (vs DED) Worlds Collide (vs Sansha + Gallente) Mordus Headhunters Vengeance (vs Mordus) Angel Extravaganza (bonus level)
Vengance vs Guristas is not hard IMO. --- It have always fallen to a few to sacrifice for the good of many |
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2007.02.22 20:58:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 22/02/2007 20:55:58 If those missions are gunna become lvl5s, I would say:
Angel Extravaganza Pirate Invasion Pirate Slaughter Stop the Thief Silence the Informant
(Yes those are my top 5 most declined missions so I would not miss them one bit)
--------- There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Kestrel
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Mastin Dragonfly
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.02.22 21:12:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 22/02/2007 20:55:58 If those missions are gunna become lvl5s, I would say:
Angel Extravaganza Pirate Invasion Pirate Slaughter Stop the Thief Silence the Informant
(Yes those are my top 5 most declined missions so I would not miss them one bit)
And 3 of those are among my favorites...
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Macmuelli
Gallente Gallente Mercantile Exchange Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2007.02.22 21:22:00 -
[23]
worlds collide angel extravaganza (bonus level) blockade shipyard theft (storyline lev 4 ) angel strike (storyline lev 4)
If u know which enemies u had to attack first, they will go fast. At least 1 tank + 1 dmg dealer team makes them easy
I prefer damnation pilot + hyperion in a team.
Damnation (ab + orbiting enemie ) as full tank damage based from npc.(optimal eos pilot) Hyperion as dmg dealer + repair support the damnation (drones).
This team make it possible to insta aggro the most missions.
Whats a human without dreams?.....
DEATH
"Ein jeder ernte Ruhm auf seine Weise.....Gunnar von Hlidarendi "
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Dammar
Amarr Ephorate
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Posted - 2007.02.22 21:31:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Elsinaril
Originally by: Dammar
Originally by: Tranvisor So this is the thread where we decide which missions get taken away from us. Well that's great, I love getting nerfed.
Oh yes, CCP is playin their game all right, haha.
Heads up, most of the missions I have listed are not available in the empire space anyway, so they can be hardly taken away from you
haha I guess when I did all those missions I was just imagining it then? That would be in a 0.9 btw.
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Siri Blue
Gallente Duvolle Laboratories Blue Division
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Posted - 2007.02.22 22:30:00 -
[25]
The Mordus Headhunters Vengeance Silence the Informant Worlds Collide (if you try killing em all)
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FalconHawk
Amarr Falcon Advanced Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.22 22:39:00 -
[26]
enemies abound 5/5 (cause i¦m 99% amarr ) pirate slaughter/ invasion vs. guris (only with mass aggro, jamming is simply annoying) worlds collide sansha/angel (only with mass aggro at last stage and you are totaly clueless) angel ex. cause ... it¦s angel ex
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Kharo Khann
Cosmology
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Posted - 2007.02.22 22:43:00 -
[27]
- enemies abound ( more because of faction drops) - worlds collide ( the gurista part of it)
the rest i wouldnt adress as: "most difficult missions you know"
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Hektor Ramirez
Outer Ring Tourist Information Center
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Posted - 2007.02.22 22:43:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Hektor Ramirez on 22/02/2007 23:19:42 As Gallente: Any mission with full drone aggro (Serpvaganza, Worlds Collide), Silence the Informant, Pirate Invasion and I guess In the Midst of Deadspace (It's been a while).
Depends entirely on the ship and weapons I suppose. I'll do Mordus Headhunters in a Domi no problem but I'd never bother in an Apoc. I also wouldn't do harder Sansha missions in a Raven probably. -
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Kharo Khann
Cosmology
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Posted - 2007.02.22 22:45:00 -
[29]
forgot:
- Angel extra stage - Bloccade (ded)
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W1ck3d 8uZz
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.02.22 23:17:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Majin82 Just fill level 5's with Dreads
only dreads? that would be easy if those dreads are not caldari ones
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.02.22 23:21:00 -
[31]
The most difficult mission, Enemies Abound 5/5.
The waves spawn insanely fast for the hitpoints/resists they have (especially the "middle" waves), and each of them deals significant damage themselves. It's the only mission where I don't feel like being able to complete it solo (that, plus the AE bonus room).
Tanking two waves might be possible, but you need a lot of firepower to bring them down before the following next wave of reinforcements arrives and gets into range, so if you couldn't do it on the previous waves (kill them off before next arrives), you probably won't be able to do the same for the next. Trying to outmanouver them doesn't work all that well, especially since they seem to have a lot of reach, one warpout means you're pretty much doomed on return with all the enemies clustered within striking distance, so you have to wait 'till after DT and retry, or risk too much.
As second most difficult, I'd have to say Stop The Thief.
It's not so much the number of ships or anything, it's the utter surprise you experience the first time you do it, wondering why the heck is the mission THAT easy, and then *blam* 3 extra Machariels right down your throat (plus webbers and all the other niceties). Still nowhere near as difficult as the above, but can catch you unprepared easily.
Third difficulty tier mission(s), no idea what to say, a tie between Enemies Abound 1/5, Pirate Slaughter, The Blockade, Worlds Collide and maybe even the Extravaganzas. None of them are THAT difficult per se, not nearly as difficult as any of the above anyway (if done carefully), they're just tricky to complete "safely" and require a bit of brain-work, whereas the first two on the difficulty scale are a matter of muscle almost entirely.
Sometimes, you're facing a major drone/support aggro issue (EA1/5), or simply a massive aggro issue due to design (PS room3) or "user" carelessness. But as long as you do them solo and keep your drones inside when mass aggro can be avoided, and if you keep a decent distance from the aggroed groups, you should be fine. _ MySkills | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.02.22 23:21:00 -
[32]
The most difficult mission, Enemies Abound 5/5.
The waves spawn insanely fast for the hitpoints/resists they have (especially the "middle" waves), and each of them deals significant damage themselves. It's the only mission where I don't feel like being able to complete it solo (that, plus the AE bonus room).
Tanking two waves might be possible, but you need a lot of firepower to bring them down before the following next wave of reinforcements arrives and gets into range, so if you couldn't do it on the previous waves (kill them off before next arrives), you probably won't be able to do the same for the next. Trying to outmanouver them doesn't work all that well, especially since they seem to have a lot of reach, one warpout means you're pretty much doomed on return with all the enemies clustered within striking distance, so you have to wait 'till after DT and retry, or risk too much.
As second most difficult, I'd have to say Stop The Thief.
It's not so much the number of ships or anything, it's the utter surprise you experience the first time you do it, wondering why the heck is the mission THAT easy, and then *blam* 3 extra Machariels right down your throat (plus webbers and all the other niceties). Still nowhere near as difficult as the above, but can catch you unprepared easily.
Third difficulty tier mission(s), no idea what to say, a tie between Enemies Abound 1/5, Pirate Slaughter, The Blockade, Worlds Collide and maybe even the Extravaganzas. None of them are THAT difficult per se, not nearly as difficult as any of the above anyway (if done carefully), they're just tricky to complete "safely" and require a bit of brain-work, whereas the first two on the difficulty scale are a matter of muscle almost entirely.
Sometimes, you're facing a major drone/support aggro issue (EA1/5), or simply a massive aggro issue due to design (PS room3) or "user" carelessness. But as long as you do them solo and keep your drones inside when mass aggro can be avoided, and if you keep a decent distance from the aggroed groups, you should be fine. _ MySkills | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Calprimus
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.02.23 00:08:00 -
[33]
Only one I can think of is EA 5/5 (I run only Caldari).
The rest not even slightly challanging.
Give us lv 5 in high sec with lower number of ships (lol frigate and cruisers)but harder. And please a better NPC AI.
Those Giuristas got all a lobotomy......
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Calprimus
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.02.23 00:08:00 -
[34]
Only one I can think of is EA 5/5 (I run only Caldari).
The rest not even slightly challanging.
Give us lv 5 in high sec with lower number of ships (lol frigate and cruisers)but harder. And please a better NPC AI.
Those Giuristas got all a lobotomy......
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HAWKEYE v
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Posted - 2007.02.23 00:11:00 -
[35]
As the long time mission ***** that I am I will put in my 2 isk. First off some of the missions that you are naming are not that hard to do if you have just one friend with you. Worlds collide a friend of mine have done with my friend in an enyo to tank it. I was in a gank-a-geddon. We could go through the entire mission both sides in about 40 minutes. Gurrista extravaganza is easier to tank then the angel, but actually has a much higher dps output. Again the bonus to angel extrav is hard for 1 ship to tank, but that same friend was in a dual armor rep domi and I was in a gank zealot and we tanked it and killed everything in a matter of 5 minutes. None of these missions are all that difficult with 1 or 2 friends. If you can have one of them in a tank sacrilege then you are golden.
That said there is one mission that neither one of us will do and that is enemies abound 1 of 5 because we have both lost very expensive ships on that even trying to do it together. I think that is the only mission that I don't ever run. I also hate running vengeance solo because of that boss on the last level. He kills any tank that I throw at him and runs down my cap. I can be in a raven, domi, geddon, or apoc. It doesn't seem to matter. I mean I have soloed it with the infamous warp in and warp out tactic.
All you have to do is to know what damage types are going to be dealt then you should be able to tank and kill any mission. I do not however like the change to all dead space missions, cause I have a problem doing a level 3 blockade with a bs. This has made it very difficult to run that mission like I used to when it was around one of the stargates in the system. Just my little rant on an already old topic.
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HAWKEYE v
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Posted - 2007.02.23 00:11:00 -
[36]
As the long time mission ***** that I am I will put in my 2 isk. First off some of the missions that you are naming are not that hard to do if you have just one friend with you. Worlds collide a friend of mine have done with my friend in an enyo to tank it. I was in a gank-a-geddon. We could go through the entire mission both sides in about 40 minutes. Gurrista extravaganza is easier to tank then the angel, but actually has a much higher dps output. Again the bonus to angel extrav is hard for 1 ship to tank, but that same friend was in a dual armor rep domi and I was in a gank zealot and we tanked it and killed everything in a matter of 5 minutes. None of these missions are all that difficult with 1 or 2 friends. If you can have one of them in a tank sacrilege then you are golden.
That said there is one mission that neither one of us will do and that is enemies abound 1 of 5 because we have both lost very expensive ships on that even trying to do it together. I think that is the only mission that I don't ever run. I also hate running vengeance solo because of that boss on the last level. He kills any tank that I throw at him and runs down my cap. I can be in a raven, domi, geddon, or apoc. It doesn't seem to matter. I mean I have soloed it with the infamous warp in and warp out tactic.
All you have to do is to know what damage types are going to be dealt then you should be able to tank and kill any mission. I do not however like the change to all dead space missions, cause I have a problem doing a level 3 blockade with a bs. This has made it very difficult to run that mission like I used to when it was around one of the stargates in the system. Just my little rant on an already old topic.
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Genji Genji
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Posted - 2007.02.23 00:44:00 -
[37]
Quote: Level 4 will become closer to Level 3 in difficulty, the jump up will not be as drastic as it is now. Level 5 will be the new level, consisting partly of the most difficult Level 4 missions, but mainly new missions. ...
Encourages colonization of low security, the higher population providing pirates with more, but tougher (capital-ship-driving-group-flying) pilots.
Let's just name off the most profitable Level 4 missions so that the Empire Pilots won't be making money off that anymore.
If this does not go well, I'm cancelling my Eve accounts. I don't have time to coordinate with several different players to try to get a gang in order to do a mission whenever I want to make money. This change will push that further or will attempt to nerf my ISK making ability during my already limited gameplay.
Leave the current level 4 missions alone! The last thing I need is a nerf to take away what fun I have when I have the time to play.
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Genji Genji
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Posted - 2007.02.23 00:44:00 -
[38]
Quote: Level 4 will become closer to Level 3 in difficulty, the jump up will not be as drastic as it is now. Level 5 will be the new level, consisting partly of the most difficult Level 4 missions, but mainly new missions. ...
Encourages colonization of low security, the higher population providing pirates with more, but tougher (capital-ship-driving-group-flying) pilots.
Let's just name off the most profitable Level 4 missions so that the Empire Pilots won't be making money off that anymore.
If this does not go well, I'm cancelling my Eve accounts. I don't have time to coordinate with several different players to try to get a gang in order to do a mission whenever I want to make money. This change will push that further or will attempt to nerf my ISK making ability during my already limited gameplay.
Leave the current level 4 missions alone! The last thing I need is a nerf to take away what fun I have when I have the time to play.
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Ezra
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.23 01:08:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Hektor Ramirez Edited by: Hektor Ramirez on 22/02/2007 23:19:42 As Gallente: Any mission with full drone aggro (Serpvaganza, Worlds Collide), Silence the Informant, Pirate Invasion and I guess In the Midst of Deadspace (It's been a while).
Depends entirely on the ship and weapons I suppose. I'll do Mordus Headhunters in a Domi no problem but I'd never bother in an Apoc. I also wouldn't do harder Sansha missions in a Raven probably.
As a person who often flies missions with corpmates (it's more fun) - Same missions you mention as being bugged. The "drone agro" bug also applies to ANY entity other than the mission holder that takes hostile action against the mission rats, even if they are already agroed on the mission holder.
Specifically, I can confirm that the "buddy agro" bug exists (and is most definately NOT limited to combat drones, and FYI does not trigger when support drones are launched) in the following missions: Worlds Collide (Guristas/Serp version at least) in the first area. Serps usually agro mission holder first and the Guristas do nothing, but Guristas will mass agro anyone else who attacks the serps. Angel Extravaganza, first area Serpentis Extravaganza, last area
Zrakor, if you want to encourage group mission running, the "buddy agro" bug HAS to be fixed. Currently mission agro mechanics serves to strongly encourage solo play - these missions are EASIER for a solo non-drone ship than for gangs. ------------ Ezra Cornell
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Ezra
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.23 01:08:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Hektor Ramirez Edited by: Hektor Ramirez on 22/02/2007 23:19:42 As Gallente: Any mission with full drone aggro (Serpvaganza, Worlds Collide), Silence the Informant, Pirate Invasion and I guess In the Midst of Deadspace (It's been a while).
Depends entirely on the ship and weapons I suppose. I'll do Mordus Headhunters in a Domi no problem but I'd never bother in an Apoc. I also wouldn't do harder Sansha missions in a Raven probably.
As a person who often flies missions with corpmates (it's more fun) - Same missions you mention as being bugged. The "drone agro" bug also applies to ANY entity other than the mission holder that takes hostile action against the mission rats, even if they are already agroed on the mission holder.
Specifically, I can confirm that the "buddy agro" bug exists (and is most definately NOT limited to combat drones, and FYI does not trigger when support drones are launched) in the following missions: Worlds Collide (Guristas/Serp version at least) in the first area. Serps usually agro mission holder first and the Guristas do nothing, but Guristas will mass agro anyone else who attacks the serps. Angel Extravaganza, first area Serpentis Extravaganza, last area
Zrakor, if you want to encourage group mission running, the "buddy agro" bug HAS to be fixed. Currently mission agro mechanics serves to strongly encourage solo play - these missions are EASIER for a solo non-drone ship than for gangs. ------------ Ezra Cornell
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Isisx
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Posted - 2007.02.23 01:13:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Isisx on 23/02/2007 01:11:30 Edited by: Isisx on 23/02/2007 01:10:20
Originally by: Zrakor Could the more experienced mission runners on this forum please write down a list of 5 of the most difficult level 4 missions they have had to face. It would be much appreciated, thanks.
Pretty sneaky to post this question without context. Allow me to fix it for you. -
We will be taking away your 5 most difficult and profitable missions from level 4's and High sec and moving them to low sec and making them level 5's. Please tell us which ones you make the most isk on so that we can screw all of you carebears again. Thanks.
A post like this reminds me of American politics. Counting on the fact that people are too ignorant to know the relevant topics, so that you can get the responses that you want.
Not meant as a flame, just the way I see this as a paying customer. I will hope that my comments will not be censored.
Click here to read the facts.
Dev Blog
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Isisx
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Posted - 2007.02.23 01:13:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Isisx on 23/02/2007 01:11:30 Edited by: Isisx on 23/02/2007 01:10:20
Originally by: Zrakor Could the more experienced mission runners on this forum please write down a list of 5 of the most difficult level 4 missions they have had to face. It would be much appreciated, thanks.
Pretty sneaky to post this question without context. Allow me to fix it for you. -
We will be taking away your 5 most difficult and profitable missions from level 4's and High sec and moving them to low sec and making them level 5's. Please tell us which ones you make the most isk on so that we can screw all of you carebears again. Thanks.
A post like this reminds me of American politics. Counting on the fact that people are too ignorant to know the relevant topics, so that you can get the responses that you want.
Not meant as a flame, just the way I see this as a paying customer. I will hope that my comments will not be censored.
Click here to read the facts.
Dev Blog
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Hektor Ramirez
Outer Ring Tourist Information Center
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Posted - 2007.02.23 01:45:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Isisx We will be taking away your 5 most difficult and profitable missions from level 4's and High sec and moving them to low sec and making them level 5's. Please tell us which ones you make the most isk on so that we can screw all of you carebears again. Thanks.
Hm, thanks for looking out for us but I think most of us have the mental capacity to read and comprehend the question and answer with a list of missions we decline on a regular basis because they're stupid hard solo. I don't mind them making those lvl5 and replacing them with new ones. -
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Hektor Ramirez
Outer Ring Tourist Information Center
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Posted - 2007.02.23 01:45:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Isisx We will be taking away your 5 most difficult and profitable missions from level 4's and High sec and moving them to low sec and making them level 5's. Please tell us which ones you make the most isk on so that we can screw all of you carebears again. Thanks.
Hm, thanks for looking out for us but I think most of us have the mental capacity to read and comprehend the question and answer with a list of missions we decline on a regular basis because they're stupid hard solo. I don't mind them making those lvl5 and replacing them with new ones. -
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CPL Nobbes
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Posted - 2007.02.23 01:48:00 -
[45]
It's a bit hard to rate 5 as the hardest but I can think of one or two that would give a new lvl4 runner some pause Right hand of Zazzamatazz Stop the thief (not so much for the DPS but becuase the clown that designed it must have been drunk and placed so many rocks in the mission space the lag is horrendous) Angel Extrav first room for drone users Silence the informant first room for the big DPS the elites put out. As for the nerfing of lvl 4's and high sec in general, surely everyone has seen this coming. Consider the following The constant belittling of mission runners in high sec on the forums and the implied agreement by Devs every patch that adds new content only adds it low sec the steep reduction in mission loot drops in high sec Devs constantly harping on pvp as being the reason eve exists the complete lack of attention payed to mission in general by the Dev team (although given their poor track record on introducing quality content that actually works this is probably a good thing). So really the clues for high sec mission runners have been there for a while to see and when the time finally comes you will have exactly 3 choices 1. Conform to the Dev's vision of what Eve is (the player owned vision was always a fallacy and anyone with >2 functioning brain cells could see that) 2. Adapt to the "new" high sec and just do less and earn less 3. Quit the game
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CPL Nobbes
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Posted - 2007.02.23 01:48:00 -
[46]
It's a bit hard to rate 5 as the hardest but I can think of one or two that would give a new lvl4 runner some pause Right hand of Zazzamatazz Stop the thief (not so much for the DPS but becuase the clown that designed it must have been drunk and placed so many rocks in the mission space the lag is horrendous) Angel Extrav first room for drone users Silence the informant first room for the big DPS the elites put out. As for the nerfing of lvl 4's and high sec in general, surely everyone has seen this coming. Consider the following The constant belittling of mission runners in high sec on the forums and the implied agreement by Devs every patch that adds new content only adds it low sec the steep reduction in mission loot drops in high sec Devs constantly harping on pvp as being the reason eve exists the complete lack of attention payed to mission in general by the Dev team (although given their poor track record on introducing quality content that actually works this is probably a good thing). So really the clues for high sec mission runners have been there for a while to see and when the time finally comes you will have exactly 3 choices 1. Conform to the Dev's vision of what Eve is (the player owned vision was always a fallacy and anyone with >2 functioning brain cells could see that) 2. Adapt to the "new" high sec and just do less and earn less 3. Quit the game
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Isiss Svorxvo
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Posted - 2007.02.23 01:56:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Isiss Svorxvo on 23/02/2007 01:55:38
Originally by: Hektor Ramirez
Originally by: Isisx We will be taking away your 5 most difficult and profitable missions from level 4's and High sec and moving them to low sec and making them level 5's. Please tell us which ones you make the most isk on so that we can screw all of you carebears again. Thanks.
Hm, thanks for looking out for us but I think most of us have the mental capacity to read and comprehend the question and answer with a list of missions we decline on a regular basis because they're stupid hard solo. I don't mind them making those lvl5 and replacing them with new ones.
Make sure to read the Dev Blog fully. They are planning on taking these missions, moving them to low sec, and nerfing level 4's down to the difficulty of level 3's. This may be fine for you and others, but those of us that do not wish to risk our ships full of T2 mods, faction ships, expensive implants, etc etc, think the missions are just fine left alone.
FYI they aren't talking about adding new content to level 4's and letting us carebears keep on playing in High Sec. they are in fact talking about making the high sec level 4's almost no reward by removing rat bounties and placing the hardest and most profitable missions in lowsec space. Like may others have said, some of these missions are fine if done with a friend, some are not.
How do you feel about running these insanely hard missions and having your watch your back every 20 seconds due to pirates scan probing your mission location? I say no thanks, but hey, to each his own. I think plenty of carebears like me will speak to CCP with their credit cards on this issue if it comes to pass.
Edit:
Just to say that i will be taking the above posters option #3
More power to CCP and the rest of EVE for this vision of a player owned pvp wonderland. It's just not my thing all of the time, and i don;t feel like being forced into it.
EVE Online:
A game where you can do anything you want, as long as it's PvP. |
Isiss Svorxvo
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Posted - 2007.02.23 01:56:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Isiss Svorxvo on 23/02/2007 01:55:38
Originally by: Hektor Ramirez
Originally by: Isisx We will be taking away your 5 most difficult and profitable missions from level 4's and High sec and moving them to low sec and making them level 5's. Please tell us which ones you make the most isk on so that we can screw all of you carebears again. Thanks.
Hm, thanks for looking out for us but I think most of us have the mental capacity to read and comprehend the question and answer with a list of missions we decline on a regular basis because they're stupid hard solo. I don't mind them making those lvl5 and replacing them with new ones.
Make sure to read the Dev Blog fully. They are planning on taking these missions, moving them to low sec, and nerfing level 4's down to the difficulty of level 3's. This may be fine for you and others, but those of us that do not wish to risk our ships full of T2 mods, faction ships, expensive implants, etc etc, think the missions are just fine left alone.
FYI they aren't talking about adding new content to level 4's and letting us carebears keep on playing in High Sec. they are in fact talking about making the high sec level 4's almost no reward by removing rat bounties and placing the hardest and most profitable missions in lowsec space. Like may others have said, some of these missions are fine if done with a friend, some are not.
How do you feel about running these insanely hard missions and having your watch your back every 20 seconds due to pirates scan probing your mission location? I say no thanks, but hey, to each his own. I think plenty of carebears like me will speak to CCP with their credit cards on this issue if it comes to pass.
Edit:
Just to say that i will be taking the above posters option #3
More power to CCP and the rest of EVE for this vision of a player owned pvp wonderland. It's just not my thing all of the time, and i don;t feel like being forced into it.
EVE Online:
A game where you can do anything you want, as long as it's PvP. |
Hektor Ramirez
Outer Ring Tourist Information Center
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Posted - 2007.02.23 02:38:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Hektor Ramirez on 23/02/2007 03:02:38
Originally by: Isiss Svorxvo Make sure to read the Dev Blog fully. They are planning on taking these missions, moving them to low sec, and nerfing level 4's down to the difficulty of level 3's. This may be fine for you and others, but those of us that do not wish to risk our ships full of T2 mods, faction ships, expensive implants, etc etc, think the missions are just fine left alone.
Ya, exaggeration and panic reactions to the mission blog from someone who runs Angelvaganza in 25 minutes in a faction fitted CNR isn't at all surprising to be honest. If you don't see why you had it coming then you're just oblivious to what the remaining 95% of mission runners is doing. Also there's plenty more appropriate threads where you can voice your concerns about the planned changes without derailing a rare dev request for feedback. -
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Hektor Ramirez
Outer Ring Tourist Information Center
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Posted - 2007.02.23 02:38:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Hektor Ramirez on 23/02/2007 03:02:38
Originally by: Isiss Svorxvo Make sure to read the Dev Blog fully. They are planning on taking these missions, moving them to low sec, and nerfing level 4's down to the difficulty of level 3's. This may be fine for you and others, but those of us that do not wish to risk our ships full of T2 mods, faction ships, expensive implants, etc etc, think the missions are just fine left alone.
Ya, exaggeration and panic reactions to the mission blog from someone who runs Angelvaganza in 25 minutes in a faction fitted CNR isn't at all surprising to be honest. If you don't see why you had it coming then you're just oblivious to what the remaining 95% of mission runners is doing. Also there's plenty more appropriate threads where you can voice your concerns about the planned changes without derailing a rare dev request for feedback. -
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Isiss Svorxvo
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Posted - 2007.02.23 03:31:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Hektor Ramirez Edited by: Hektor Ramirez on 23/02/2007 03:02:38
Originally by: Isiss Svorxvo Make sure to read the Dev Blog fully. They are planning on taking these missions, moving them to low sec, and nerfing level 4's down to the difficulty of level 3's. This may be fine for you and others, but those of us that do not wish to risk our ships full of T2 mods, faction ships, expensive implants, etc etc, think the missions are just fine left alone.
Ya, exaggeration and panic reactions to the mission blog from someone who runs Angelvaganza in 25 minutes in a faction fitted CNR isn't at all surprising to be honest. If you don't see why you had it coming then you're just oblivious to what the remaining 95% of mission runners is doing. Also there's plenty more appropriate threads where you can voice your concerns about the planned changes without derailing a rare dev request for feedback.
I am sorry that you ar so misinformed friend. i run missions in a phoon with my brother running support in a second phoon. We each have about 3.1 mil SP's as i quit the game for nearly a year. I use some T2 but no faction. We cannot even complete AE due to the "buddy agro" bug.I still won't take my rig fitted and T2 fitted ship, or my pod with ~100 mil worth of implants into lowsec. No way, no how.
What all of this boils down to is that the DEVs are trying to "fix" things in the wrong way by forcing people into lowsec. I am all about adding new content but i will not be forced into lowsec.
If we could get a real fix on things like lag, buddy agro, and drone agro then some level 4's wouldn't be what they are now.
I happen to agree with you that people running what you describe in faction fitted CNR's is somewhat retarded. Is that my fault? I just started doing level 4's and for the first time since I played EVE I am actually enjoying the game, because I'm not being ganked in order to make a living.
A real fix to the level 4 inflation issue would be to either balance or completely remove the faction mods. There isn't a pilot in his right mind that is going to fly a ship in low sec with all that crap fitted to it. Hell I wouldn't take a CNR to low sec fitted with T1 mods.
I am expressing an opinion on an open forum and if the mods and DEVs in CCP don't like it, they will delete my comments.
Carebears will be carebars and griefers will be griefers will be griefers. No amount of nerfing or moving things around will ever change that.
All that I and others in this post are saying is that the topic shouldn't be forgotten. Or do you seriously think that they are asking so that they can try to balance this content? These missions have been the same for months or years without change and the only reason to ask about the hardest ones now, is to figure out which ones to move out of high Sec. Plain and simple.
As i said before, if all of this comes to pass and i can't make comparable isk to what i make now ( I don't think me making 15-20 mil a night is too much to ask in 3-5 hours of gameplay), then i will be taking option #3 and removing my CC info.
Then you won't ever have to see my sorry carebear arse again will ya?
EVE Online:
A game where you can do anything you want, as long as it's PvP. |
Isiss Svorxvo
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Posted - 2007.02.23 03:31:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Hektor Ramirez Edited by: Hektor Ramirez on 23/02/2007 03:02:38
Originally by: Isiss Svorxvo Make sure to read the Dev Blog fully. They are planning on taking these missions, moving them to low sec, and nerfing level 4's down to the difficulty of level 3's. This may be fine for you and others, but those of us that do not wish to risk our ships full of T2 mods, faction ships, expensive implants, etc etc, think the missions are just fine left alone.
Ya, exaggeration and panic reactions to the mission blog from someone who runs Angelvaganza in 25 minutes in a faction fitted CNR isn't at all surprising to be honest. If you don't see why you had it coming then you're just oblivious to what the remaining 95% of mission runners is doing. Also there's plenty more appropriate threads where you can voice your concerns about the planned changes without derailing a rare dev request for feedback.
I am sorry that you ar so misinformed friend. i run missions in a phoon with my brother running support in a second phoon. We each have about 3.1 mil SP's as i quit the game for nearly a year. I use some T2 but no faction. We cannot even complete AE due to the "buddy agro" bug.I still won't take my rig fitted and T2 fitted ship, or my pod with ~100 mil worth of implants into lowsec. No way, no how.
What all of this boils down to is that the DEVs are trying to "fix" things in the wrong way by forcing people into lowsec. I am all about adding new content but i will not be forced into lowsec.
If we could get a real fix on things like lag, buddy agro, and drone agro then some level 4's wouldn't be what they are now.
I happen to agree with you that people running what you describe in faction fitted CNR's is somewhat retarded. Is that my fault? I just started doing level 4's and for the first time since I played EVE I am actually enjoying the game, because I'm not being ganked in order to make a living.
A real fix to the level 4 inflation issue would be to either balance or completely remove the faction mods. There isn't a pilot in his right mind that is going to fly a ship in low sec with all that crap fitted to it. Hell I wouldn't take a CNR to low sec fitted with T1 mods.
I am expressing an opinion on an open forum and if the mods and DEVs in CCP don't like it, they will delete my comments.
Carebears will be carebars and griefers will be griefers will be griefers. No amount of nerfing or moving things around will ever change that.
All that I and others in this post are saying is that the topic shouldn't be forgotten. Or do you seriously think that they are asking so that they can try to balance this content? These missions have been the same for months or years without change and the only reason to ask about the hardest ones now, is to figure out which ones to move out of high Sec. Plain and simple.
As i said before, if all of this comes to pass and i can't make comparable isk to what i make now ( I don't think me making 15-20 mil a night is too much to ask in 3-5 hours of gameplay), then i will be taking option #3 and removing my CC info.
Then you won't ever have to see my sorry carebear arse again will ya?
EVE Online:
A game where you can do anything you want, as long as it's PvP. |
Bordric
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Posted - 2007.02.23 04:41:00 -
[53]
Worlds Collide Pirate Slaughter the last pocket (guristas) Enemies abound prolly the hardest really
Rest are not too bad but many others are hard none the less.
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Bordric
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Posted - 2007.02.23 04:41:00 -
[54]
Worlds Collide Pirate Slaughter the last pocket (guristas) Enemies abound prolly the hardest really
Rest are not too bad but many others are hard none the less.
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AKULA UrQuan
Caldari STK Scientific INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.02.23 05:09:00 -
[55]
-Pirate Slaughter -Blockade -Enemies abound -Stop the theif
Those are the four that still give me fits. It's too bad casual part-time players are about to be smacked with the nerfbat hard but o-well.
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AKULA UrQuan
Caldari STK Scientific INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.02.23 05:09:00 -
[56]
-Pirate Slaughter -Blockade -Enemies abound -Stop the theif
Those are the four that still give me fits. It's too bad casual part-time players are about to be smacked with the nerfbat hard but o-well.
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Arushia
Nova Labs
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Posted - 2007.02.23 06:55:00 -
[57]
"Take This Away" - Hauling a 3k m3 bag of garbage 10 jumps? Thanks a heap.
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Arushia
Nova Labs
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Posted - 2007.02.23 06:55:00 -
[58]
"Take This Away" - Hauling a 3k m3 bag of garbage 10 jumps? Thanks a heap.
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Dagle
Minmatar Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency
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Posted - 2007.02.23 07:00:00 -
[59]
Enemies Abound (turn it down) Angel Extravaganza (turn it down) Worlds Collide (every single mission ship loss I've had has been on WC, I turn it down unless I'm in caldari space and get the gurista one).
All the rest of the missions I find to be not particularly difficult, although Pirate Slaughter was a challenge until I got tactics down correctly. Now it's just long.
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Dagle
Minmatar Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency
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Posted - 2007.02.23 07:00:00 -
[60]
Enemies Abound (turn it down) Angel Extravaganza (turn it down) Worlds Collide (every single mission ship loss I've had has been on WC, I turn it down unless I'm in caldari space and get the gurista one).
All the rest of the missions I find to be not particularly difficult, although Pirate Slaughter was a challenge until I got tactics down correctly. Now it's just long.
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Xelios
Minmatar Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.02.23 08:29:00 -
[61]
The Blockade (DED), easily the most difficult mission I've done.
Others that come to mind:
Enemies Abound Worlds Collide
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Xelios
Minmatar Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.02.23 08:29:00 -
[62]
The Blockade (DED), easily the most difficult mission I've done.
Others that come to mind:
Enemies Abound Worlds Collide
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Corrino Irulan
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.02.23 09:16:00 -
[63]
I am an experienced mission runner and I can assure you that there are NO difficult lvl 4 missions ... unless you are refering to the 5 most difficult lvl 4 SOLO missions.
Do us all a BIG favor and improve the AI of NPC's and introduce difficult NON-SOLO lvl 4 missions.
All the previous listed "difficult" missions are a walk in the park for a good gang. Hell, for gangs, these missions only become a challenge when they decide to limit the biggest ship to cruiser class
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Corrino Irulan
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.02.23 09:16:00 -
[64]
I am an experienced mission runner and I can assure you that there are NO difficult lvl 4 missions ... unless you are refering to the 5 most difficult lvl 4 SOLO missions.
Do us all a BIG favor and improve the AI of NPC's and introduce difficult NON-SOLO lvl 4 missions.
All the previous listed "difficult" missions are a walk in the park for a good gang. Hell, for gangs, these missions only become a challenge when they decide to limit the biggest ship to cruiser class
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Thalera Saldana
Minmatar Oxymorons from Outer Space
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Posted - 2007.02.23 09:36:00 -
[65]
How about No!
Perhaps you could explain while you feel the need to nerf L4's in High Sec and move all the good missions to Low Sec? If you want to create L5 in Low Sec that's fine, but do it by creating new content, not nerfing existing missions that people enjoy. Basically for all the missions listed here you will find some people who think they are hard, some easy, some who like them and some who hate them. I enjoy Angel Extravaganzas, but for others they are an auto-reject.
From a personal point of view, you could shift all Empire faction standing destroying missions to low sec. In the midst of deadspace is an auto-reject for me.
Thal
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Thalera Saldana
Minmatar Oxymorons from Outer Space
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Posted - 2007.02.23 09:36:00 -
[66]
How about No!
Perhaps you could explain while you feel the need to nerf L4's in High Sec and move all the good missions to Low Sec? If you want to create L5 in Low Sec that's fine, but do it by creating new content, not nerfing existing missions that people enjoy. Basically for all the missions listed here you will find some people who think they are hard, some easy, some who like them and some who hate them. I enjoy Angel Extravaganzas, but for others they are an auto-reject.
From a personal point of view, you could shift all Empire faction standing destroying missions to low sec. In the midst of deadspace is an auto-reject for me.
Thal
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Chadawahee
Amarr Debiloff Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2007.02.23 11:28:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Chadawahee on 23/02/2007 11:25:06 -Angle ex l4 bonus level -Enemys Abound -A case of kidnapping fourth level -Worlds collide, second level -Stop the thief, you can srew this up if you kill the wrong ships ...
used to be hard : -daimsel in distress, doesn't exist anymore but was pretty rough back then -drones mission, damage has been greatly reduced now and they are easy now
what makes mission hard (or difficult for certain ships) is large groups that are close together, possebly aggroing your drones. also aggro by a large number of frig on warpin can be hard creating a "do or die" situation. mission with a bubble anyone ?
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2007.02.23 11:38:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Hektor Ramirez Edited by: Hektor Ramirez on 23/02/2007 03:02:38
Originally by: Isiss Svorxvo Make sure to read the Dev Blog fully. They are planning on taking these missions, moving them to low sec, and nerfing level 4's down to the difficulty of level 3's. This may be fine for you and others, but those of us that do not wish to risk our ships full of T2 mods, faction ships, expensive implants, etc etc, think the missions are just fine left alone.
Ya, exaggeration and panic reactions to the mission blog from someone who runs Angelvaganza in 25 minutes in a faction fitted CNR isn't at all surprising to be honest. If you don't see why you had it coming then you're just oblivious to what the remaining 95% of mission runners is doing. Also there's plenty more appropriate threads where you can voice your concerns about the planned changes without derailing a rare dev request for feedback.
What the hell is so wrong with running missions fast in a faction fitted CNR? People spend 2 bil + for those ships, and getting a decent return on that investment is wrong how?
People invest 100 mil into a crap fitted battleship in 0.0 and rake in MUCH more cash with ratting and plexing, but I guess that is fine because people in 0.0 are the friendliest and most reasonable players possible and people in highsec are sploiting and cheating sociopaths...
I really wonder how much of all this hate is jealousy because some people actually enjoy the PvE that happens to make you money, while the haters only seem to be able to enjoy spoiling other people's gaming experience (in game and on the forum) which is not that profitable?
And I am sorry, but if the devs propose such a profound nerf to one of the most favorite 'professions' in game they sure as hell deserve all the derailing they get. Maybe it will open their eyes? (I doubt it though). --------- There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Kestrel
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Deus Ex'Machina
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.02.23 12:07:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Zrakor Could the more experienced mission runners on this forum please write down a list of 5 of the most difficult level 4 missions they have had to face. It would be much appreciated, thanks.
One point i could make here: devs don't do missions ...
But let's help you out a bit...
Infiltrated Outpost Rogue Drone Harassment
Make them lvl 5 and move them to low sec, that will teach us to screw with the nerfbat!
To the above posters, i fly a faction / t2 fitted and rigged drake with 3.5 mill sp ( of which 2 mill are in cybernetics, learning and gunnery ) and sollo all missions except the above because they are too difficult... *snip* - Image not appropriate for eve-o forums - hutch
true caldari tank shield true amarr tank armor true minmatar tank structure true hauler pilots tank pod |
Ruuph Marx
Caldari Free Corp
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Posted - 2007.02.23 12:43:00 -
[70]
Here's my list...
1. Pirate Slaughter 1. Worlds Collide 2. Enemies Abond 4. Silence the Informant 5. Angel Extravaganza
However, If you plan to remove the 5 top lvl 4 missions for the lvl4 runners and move them to lvl5 and low sec, please DO NOT COUNT MY VOTE, as I don't want/like any changes to lvl4 missions (well, maybe adding new content and raising difficulty, but not removing the existing one nor lowering the difficulty)
Cheers.
Ruuph
btw... please, do what you want but let The Blockade in lvl4 group as it is.
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Lrrp
Minmatar Gallente Mercantile Exchange
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Posted - 2007.02.23 12:54:00 -
[71]
While I agree all the missions listed here are difficult, the biggest drawback for me doing them solo is the time. AE takes me 8 hours to kill/loot/salvage. Me-thinks when I become a hulk god, mining will be more profitable.
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Hektor Ramirez
Outer Ring Tourist Information Center
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Posted - 2007.02.23 13:14:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Hektor Ramirez on 23/02/2007 13:12:03
Originally by: Leandro Salazar What the hell is so wrong with running missions fast in a faction fitted CNR? People spend 2 bil + for those ships, and getting a decent return on that investment is wrong how?
If a faction fitted faction ship with variable damage types is a prerequisite to finish a particular lvl4 mission within a reasonable timeframe, if at all, then it's too hard period. That's what's wrong with it. I don't mind anyone making huge amounts of ISK, I'm good I don't care.
People have been requesting lvl5 agents for ages, that they'll be in lowsec was to be expected. Easier lvl4 missions means people will be able to do all of them for a change and faster than now, how this will affect their payout remains to be seen but I'm confident it'll balance out at 10-20 mil per hour as it is now.
And if you've ever run a rogue drone mission and survived the shock of not getting bounties for an hour then I think you'll be able to cope with some of the newer lvl4's not having bounties but ultimately getting paid by selling the bookmark to the local resident salvager/gas harvester/omber miner/whatever mini profession they'll be suited for. -
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2007.02.23 13:41:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Hektor Ramirez Edited by: Hektor Ramirez on 23/02/2007 13:29:21 Edited by: Hektor Ramirez on 23/02/2007 13:27:06
Originally by: Leandro Salazar What the hell is so wrong with running missions fast in a faction fitted CNR? People spend 2 bil + for those ships, and getting a decent return on that investment is wrong how?
If a faction fitted faction ship with variable damage types is a prerequisite to finish a particular lvl4 mission within a reasonable timeframe, if at all, then it's too hard period. That's what's wrong with it. I don't mind anyone making huge amounts of ISK, I'm good I don't care. It's just that maybe it's time people with lasers get to do a mission without calling in sick and packing a lunch.
People have been requesting lvl5 agents for ages, that they'll be in lowsec was to be expected. Easier lvl4 missions means people will be able to do all of them for a change and faster than now, how this will affect their payout remains to be seen but I'm confident it'll balance out at 10-20 mil per hour as it is now, adjusting the total sum of bounties on lvl4 missions hasn't been mentioned in the blog.
And if you've ever run a rogue drone mission and survived the shock of not getting bounties for an hour then I think you'll be able to cope with some of the newer lvl4's not having bounties but ultimately getting paid by selling the bookmark to the local resident salvager/gas harvester/omber miner/whatever mini profession they'll be suited for.
Uhm, so basically you are saying that it is not right that my 3 bil CNR can run missions faster than your 100 mil Geddon? lol...
Besides, Lasers work fine if you do missions against the correct enemy, my Abaddon beats my CNR on quite a few blood, sansha and drone missions...
And I have no problem at all with bounties being removed, I just don't want to see those level4s that are actually fun and challenging to do in a faction ship being moved to lowsec. In fact they should move those that can be done easily in standard ships there and keep missions that can only be finished in faction ships in highsec --------- There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Kestrel
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Zrakor
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Posted - 2007.02.23 13:47:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Zrakor on 23/02/2007 13:44:38 We'll be spicing up the level 4 missions in Empire space with escalating paths, possible commander spawns etc. They won't be as profitable or as hard as level 5 missions, but if you're looking for solo activity they will be fine.
We are also working at giving players more tools to fight against pirates in low sec. We want to see mission runners group up and fight as a gang, defend each other, make corporations and even alliances based on this. The bread and butter of mmorgs is group play, and we really want to nudge people into that. But we will not remove solo activities, and we will not push everyone into low sec (nudge not push), you will still be able to make a good living in high-sec.
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Fliewatuet
Angelus dos Business
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Posted - 2007.02.23 13:56:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Zrakor We want to see mission runners group up and fight as a gang, defend each other, make corporations and even alliances based on this. The bread and butter of mmorgs is group play, and we really want to nudge people into that. But we will not remove solo activities, and we will not push everyone into low sec (nudge not push), you will still be able to make a good living in high-sec.
Mission runners do missions alone because they don't want to wait for hours until they have a group of 5 ppl together. They want to play alone. Doing that in 0.0 isn't fun because you have to watch out to avoid others more than you watch to have fun yourself.
Oh, and as a mission runner myself i never ever will gang with anyone i don't know and trust completely. We learned our lesson on gang-gankings in highsec mission systems long ago - and noone wants to loose his ship and his 2b mission fitting that he worked for month to earn.
I think you have quite a lot of points to fight until you get more than the occasional "no-risk-no-fun"-style mission runner to move out of 0.5+
Regards, Fliewatuet -- |
Hektor Ramirez
Outer Ring Tourist Information Center
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Posted - 2007.02.23 13:57:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Hektor Ramirez on 23/02/2007 13:56:00 Edited by: Hektor Ramirez on 23/02/2007 13:54:58
Originally by: Leandro Salazar Uhm, so basically you are saying that it is not right that my 3 bil CNR can run missions faster than your 100 mil Geddon? lol...
Besides, Lasers work fine if you do missions against the correct enemy, my Abaddon beats my CNR on quite a few blood, sansha and drone missions...
Yes, yes that's exactly what I was saying, I'm sorry. Next time someone complains about Angelvaganza being too hard I'll just tell him to ask his agent for one of the 3 missions against the correct enemy, thanks CNR guy. -
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Fliewatuet
Angelus dos Business
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Posted - 2007.02.23 14:10:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Hektor Ramirez Yes, yes that's exactly what I was saying, I'm sorry. Next time someone complains about Angelvaganza being too hard I'll just tell him to ask his agent for one of the 3 missions against the correct enemy, thanks CNR guy.
He's right, you know. Theres a reason you can reject a mission offer, you don't have to accept every single one of them. I'm working for caldari state, i'm flying a Megathron, Dominix or Hyperion, depending on the mission and the enemy to fight. If i don't like a mission, i don't do them. I don't think to myself that a 100M BS should be able to do ALL missions out there without even refitting and start complaining about it on the forums. :)
If you invest more money, you will be faster with the missions you do - or you will be able to beat them without refitting in the middle of it - or do them at all in a reasonable time.
An example: I started a gurista Extra 4 against guristas with a Dominix once. I needed 7 hours to complete it because i had few skills worth mentioning, no money for more than t1 stuff and just heavy t1 drones. I learned, skilled, used better technology to beat them. Now i fly a 2b ship (No, not one of those cnr, thats too boring) and i do them in less than an hour, not counting the time to loot and salvage. Stop being jealous and evolve!
Regards, Fliewatuet
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Siri Blue
Gallente Duvolle Laboratories Blue Division
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Posted - 2007.02.23 14:23:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Zrakor Edited by: Zrakor on 23/02/2007 13:44:38 We'll be spicing up the level 4 missions in Empire space with escalating paths, possible commander spawns etc. They won't be as profitable or as hard as level 5 missions, but if you're looking for solo activity they will be fine.
We are also working at giving players more tools to fight against pirates in low sec. We want to see mission runners group up and fight as a gang, defend each other, make corporations and even alliances based on this. The bread and butter of mmorgs is group play, and we really want to nudge people into that. But we will not remove solo activities, and we will not push everyone into low sec (nudge not push), you will still be able to make a good living in high-sec.
That made me chuckle... Though I don't know if it was out of amusement or being the first sign of an upcoming insanity.
Low sec is called LOW security...it actually is NONE security at all! If you are going to put so much of the new content into low sec, then I DEMAND that I can put my 10.00 Gallente Navy and 10.00 Gallente Federation standings to use and can call upon Navy reinforcements to send those pirates to hell!
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Hektor Ramirez
Outer Ring Tourist Information Center
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Posted - 2007.02.23 14:24:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Fliewatuet Stop being jealous and evolve!
There's nothing to be jealous about having a 30 mil SP Amarr char watch over your shoulder while you take down a Mordus Mammoth after killing the rest of Mordus Headhunters in under 2 hours in a domi with 1.8 mil sp, shaking his head Anyway, I'm done derailing, it'll all work out. -
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Ian Novarider
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.02.23 14:43:00 -
[80]
Angel Extravaganza BONUS room (not the normal mission) Gurista Extravaganza BONUS room (not the normal mission) Pirate Slaughter (insane long travel times and hard final stage) Enemy Abound 5/5 (tricky tide of support frigates, unacceptable standing losses) World Collide (when buggy and/or laggy --> full stage aggro WC can get ugly)
this is from the perspective of mission runner with a T2 rigged (normal) Raven without faction gear and 33 mill SP. All the missions above are soloable, but one has to be careful and it takes time.
Have fun
Ian
Quote: Know thy enemy and know thyself and thou will be victorious in all thy battles.
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Alesandra
Caldari CAS Technologies and Logistics The OSS
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Posted - 2007.02.23 15:02:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Elsinaril
Originally by: Dammar
Originally by: Tranvisor So this is the thread where we decide which missions get taken away from us. Well that's great, I love getting nerfed.
Oh yes, CCP is playin their game all right, haha.
Heads up, most of the missions I have listed are not available in the empire space anyway, so they can be hardly taken away from you
Erm..... sorry to say this is where you are wrong. I have, in the recent past, been given all of these missions while in Empire space. Now I have moved to 0.0 I still get these missions, BUT they do seem a little harder. (maybe due to my not having a clone loaded with crystal implants and using a Faction / t2 fit Raven with expensive rigging)
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Veinfiller
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Posted - 2007.02.23 15:37:00 -
[82]
i don't find any lvl 4 mission particularily hard (except maybe the sansha side of worlds collide angel/sansha if you're shield-tanking)....unless you accidentally trigger full-room aggro (mainly due to the drone-aggro bug). the ones where you face more resistance are just going to take longer, they're not really more difficult.
i'd suggest leaving lvl 4 missions as they are (or maybe even making them MORE difficult) and come up with more difficult content for lvl 5.
nerfing lvl 4's and making the only challenging PvE content low-sec/gang-only could have a huge negative impact on casual play....if you just have 2-3 hours available for playing, you're really not going to be able to get together a trusted gang and run a low-sec mission. if all thats left in secure space are the easy lvl 4's....hmm :-(
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Karxarias
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Posted - 2007.02.23 16:21:00 -
[83]
Yeah I too am trying to figure out how you guys are saying these missions are so hard. I could tank and complete every level 4 mission save the extra room in AE (cuz i can't be bothered to buy the key) in a Domi as a two month old character.
Here's a good trick for you missions nubs, if you warp into a room and get warp-in aggro just tank the dmg and fly at least 70km or more away from the other groups b4 shooting, this will prevent full room aggro and make a lot of these missions you guys are whining about a lot easier. If you kill the pesky webbing and scramming frigs fast unless you are fighting angels if you have an AB on your BS you outrun most BS, BCs and cruisers.
If you have a domi:
4xCap recharger 2s 1xBeta whatever CPR (24% cap regen) 2xCap recharge rigs
And cap skills at rank 3 give you enuff cap regen to run 2 Large T2 Armor Reppers literally forever, you regen more cap than your 2 t2 LARs and 3 Active hardeners use.
Ship will cost ya <300mill and tank 150dps without taking resists into account (which are 70% across the board +/- a couple % with t2 hardeners)
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Kery Nysell
Caldari Nysell Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.02.23 16:39:00 -
[84]
The very first time you do a specific level 4 mission, without doing your "homework" (finding infos on that mission), it will be hard ...
But apart from that, none of the level 4 missions are hard if you know what you do ... of course, the "drone/buddy aggro bug" makes some missions almost impossible (like the Angel Extravaganza for a Dominix pilot), but the design in itself isn't too hard, it's the bug that makes it so ...
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Kazor
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Posted - 2007.02.23 16:45:00 -
[85]
it will kinda suck if the level 4s become like level 3s are now as far as the LP reward goes and the really rewarding level 5 missions are only in 0.0....i didnt spend 2 billion and counting on a CNR, faction mods and crystal implants so i could go out to 0.0 and get it all wasted,lol. if level 4s get nerfed to the point that there is no use running them anymore it may be time for me to move on:)
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Alejandro Zapata
Minmatar Chiken Confederation
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Posted - 2007.02.23 16:52:00 -
[86]
There are no difficult Level 4 missions. They are all do-able SOLO with proper preparation.
One thing I do indeed worry about is with the introduction of Level 5 missions we will return to the days where only one specific type of ship can run that mission solo.
Will these events lead to a further increase in the prevalence of Caldari ships? I use an Absolution and Sleipnir for Lvl 4 missions, and run them with zero difficulty.
Will the Navy Raven be able to do Lvl 5s solo, while other Navy ships are not? Are we headed toward another PvE rush toward Ravens? I fought off the urge long ago to mission run in a Raven, and settled to stay with Amarr and Minmatar, even if it takes a bit more time. Will I have to finally give up and fly a Raven just to be competitive in mission running?
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.02.23 17:49:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Zrakor We'll be spicing up the level 4 missions in Empire space with escalating paths, possible commander spawns etc. They won't be as profitable or as hard as level 5 missions, but if you're looking for solo activity they will be fine.
So far, sounds fairly decent. About the difficulty part... come on, most L4s are already a joke even with mediocre SP with the "right ship and setup". If you keep the standings gains existant now but make missions even easier... oh well, less grind, so I'm not complaining much. About the profitability part, well, it's understandable. Turning ALL bounties down a notch, or even removing bounties altogether and increasing loot/salvage a bit instead will be fine too. You should do that for L1-L4s, and keep L5+ ISK-focused.
Originally by: Zrakor We are also working at giving players more tools to fight against pirates in low sec. We want to see mission runners group up and fight as a gang, defend each other, make corporations and even alliances based on this. The bread and butter of mmorgs is group play, and we really want to nudge people into that. But we will not remove solo activities, and we will not push everyone into low sec (nudge not push), you will still be able to make a good living in high-sec.
Reaaaaally ? Tools to fight against pirates ? Forgive me when I'll believe that only when I *SEE* them, not before that.
A PvE-fit ship seldom can handle itself well in PvP, and a PvP-fit ship attempting to run missions will either struggle badly or fail miserably. So unless you CHANGE mission rats handle almost identical to how a player ship handles, and drastically reduce their numbers and clustering, you WON'T see any "fairness" whatsoever in ANY PvE-vs-PvP ship encounters.
Because quite frankly, I can not even begin to fathom what COULD you even understand under the concept of "tools". And no, ganging up and running missions in teams of 2,3 or more is not a TOOL. Also, what's stopping the "pirates" to come in in a larger group and take up residence in a mission-runners corner of lowsec, and keep moving about and ONLY engage the lonely ones, making the others either NOT run missions at all, or get destroyed by overwhelming force if they do ?
A module to "rig the acceleration gate to warn me when somebody is activating it" is a tool. A deployable that "must be destroyed first to activate an acceleration gate and warn me when that happends" is another tool. A deployable warning me "you have been picked up by a system scan" would be yet another tool. Do we get any such tools, or is that just "appeasment-talk" about something that's never going to happend ? ___
You also seem to be under the wrong assumption people run missions because they dislike a fair challenge and only do it for the ISK instead. Quite the contrary, most people DON'T run missions often enough because they're TOO EASY, too repetitive and too much plain old boring, and they mostly run them because of the blasted moronic standings system. They also run highsec missions because they don't have the TIME to spend inside the game to ORGANIZE the needed logistics for a half-safe lowsec gang mission-running experience.
Personally, I have much more ISK as I need right now, and can earn more through trades and manufacture, with less effort and online time as I need for mission-running. Still, both me and ALL corp members *HAVE* to run missions because of the way standings work. You made mission-running mandatory, there's NO OTHER WAY to gain standings right now. You can't spend ISK on it, you can't use your skills for it, you have to run missions. You just HAVE to.
And they're BORING. They're EASY. I can't stress that out enough. Yes, almost all L4s are easily solo-able, with minor exceptions, and even then, two people can handle just about everything that's left.
Before you move top-end missions to lowsec only, do something about the other problem _ MySkills | Module/Rig stacknerfing explained |
Mastin Dragonfly
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.02.23 18:32:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Mastin Dragonfly on 23/02/2007 18:30:22
Quote: A PvE-fit ship seldom can handle itself well in PvP, and a PvP-fit ship attempting to run missions will either struggle badly or fail miserably. So unless you CHANGE mission rats handle almost identical to how a player ship handles, and drastically reduce their numbers and clustering, you WON'T see any "fairness" whatsoever in ANY PvE-vs-PvP ship encounters.
That is the one of the main problems. Another is that the pirate can pick and choose who to attack and where. The mission runner is bound to the randomly generated location. Also, once the pirate finds the mission, he doesn't even have to destroy the mission runner to hurt him. Escaping on time is great, but if that means I can not finish that mission because a pirate gang is waiting then I'm looking at a SEVERE faction loss with my agent which takes more time to fix then the time to fit a new ship.
Yes, teamwork is great, but a dozen mission runners with crap all pvp experience aren't gonna beat a well-oiled team of experienced pirates half the size.
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Fergus Runkle
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Posted - 2007.02.23 19:56:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Zrakor Edited by: Zrakor on 23/02/2007 13:44:38 We'll be spicing up the level 4 missions in Empire space with escalating paths, possible commander spawns etc. They won't be as profitable or as hard as level 5 missions, but if you're looking for solo activity they will be fine.
We are also working at giving players more tools to fight against pirates in low sec. We want to see mission runners group up and fight as a gang, defend each other, make corporations and even alliances based on this. The bread and butter of mmorgs is group play, and we really want to nudge people into that. But we will not remove solo activities, and we will not push everyone into low sec (nudge not push), you will still be able to make a good living in high-sec.
My corp regularly does level 4's (mostly the ones mentioned here actually) as group events for fun, we are not dedicated solo runners. Please do not take difficult level 4's away from us. We will not be "nudged" into low sec, been there, done that, wearing the clone. It simply will not happen.
By all means introduce level 5's in low sec only, just leave the level 4's as they are please.
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Saldun Zexu
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Posted - 2007.02.23 21:44:00 -
[90]
1. Extravaganza 2. Pirate Slaughter 3. World Collide 4. Stop the Thief 5. Silence the Informant
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Maya Stone
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Posted - 2007.02.23 21:48:00 -
[91]
IMO
None of the level fours should be moved to level 5. Some are difficult yes but you get a nice variety for challenge.
Don't make level 4s easy BS level missions. Leave them as is and create NEW level 5 missions. The new missions will bring those seeking a change and greater challenge.
Enemies abound level 1 Enemies abound level 5
Rest about the same.
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Ezra
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.23 21:52:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Fergus Runkle
Originally by: Zrakor Edited by: Zrakor on 23/02/2007 13:44:38 We'll be spicing up the level 4 missions in Empire space with escalating paths, possible commander spawns etc. They won't be as profitable or as hard as level 5 missions, but if you're looking for solo activity they will be fine.
We are also working at giving players more tools to fight against pirates in low sec. We want to see mission runners group up and fight as a gang, defend each other, make corporations and even alliances based on this. The bread and butter of mmorgs is group play, and we really want to nudge people into that. But we will not remove solo activities, and we will not push everyone into low sec (nudge not push), you will still be able to make a good living in high-sec.
My corp regularly does level 4's (mostly the ones mentioned here actually) as group events for fun, we are not dedicated solo runners. Please do not take difficult level 4's away from us. We will not be "nudged" into low sec, been there, done that, wearing the clone. It simply will not happen.
By all means introduce level 5's in low sec only, just leave the level 4's as they are please.
I sort of agree with this. Unlike many of the others who say "we solo because we can't get a group together", my corp routinely runs missions as a group, although even with a group, there are some missions we just plain reject because they're actually harder for a group than a soloer in a faction fitted ship. (See my previous post regarding the "buddy agro" bug - FIX IT ALREADY ZRAKOR! It's been posted about countless times on the forums and also bugreported via the proper channels, with no change seen.)
That said, with the current state of lowsec, none of us have any intention of going there to run missions. Things are simply skewed too far in favor of pirates. Miners and mission runners (especially mission runners) must commit to their activity for extended periods of time to succeed. Pirates, on the other hand, can achieve their goals with "hit, loot, run, dock, log" in 15 minutes or less. I'm not even referring to PvP vs. PvE ship setups here, although the dichotomy between the two is quite similar (tanking for the long haul in missions/mining, vs. "3 hours of boredom followed by 15 seconds of terror" for PvP). Let's face it - players have given up on controlling piracy in lowsec because the pirates will immediately run, dock, and log the moment they sense that any sort of resistance may be forming against them.
You claim you are going to give players the tools they need to fight pirates in lowsec, but so far, I'll believe it when I see it. EVE has been around for nearly four years, and with the exception of a few small tweaks in lowsec (sentry guns, nearly insignificant docking agro timers), nothing has changed to deal with the imbalance in committment required between pirates and other players in lowsec.
I'm not saying that non-pirate players should be given the ability to play in lowsec without committing to what they are doing, but that pirates must be force to commit to their activities in a similar manner. Things like: A previous poster mentioned deployable modules that would prevent acceleration gate access without being destroyed. (This should of course be configurable to let friendlies through). Such modules would send a broadcast message to local in the locked system when under attack. Players in a lowsec system should be able to upgrade the security of the system in ways that are agreeable with the owner of that system. (Deployable sentry guns, destroyable gate-locking mechanisms that don't allow passage unless the player has acceptable standing with the faction that owns the destination system, the ability to attack a player with high security status but low faction standing combined with loss of faction standing for attacking a player with high standing with that faction, to name a few possibilities.) ------------ Ezra Cornell
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Xelios
Minmatar Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.02.23 23:11:00 -
[93]
To everyone saying these missions aren't hard if you do xxxx, yes, thank you. Just about everyone knows how to beat these missions, but they asked for the 5 hardest lvl 4 missions.
They're all doable solo, but they're still the hardest of the bunch.
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kill0rbunny
Caldari Chimera Intelligence Agency
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Posted - 2007.02.24 01:01:00 -
[94]
1. Pirate Slaughter Stage 3 2. Enemys Abound 1-5 3. Worlds Collide 4. Angel Extra Bonusstage 5. Silence the Informant
Just According to Damage incoming.
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I got a portrait now, wheeeee! \o/
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Shorin
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Posted - 2007.02.24 03:38:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Zrakor Edited by: Zrakor on 23/02/2007 13:44:38 We'll be spicing up the level 4 missions in Empire space with escalating paths, possible commander spawns etc. They won't be as profitable or as hard as level 5 missions, but if you're looking for solo activity they will be fine.
We are also working at giving players more tools to fight against pirates in low sec. We want to see mission runners group up and fight as a gang, defend each other, make corporations and even alliances based on this. The bread and butter of mmorgs is group play, and we really want to nudge people into that. But we will not remove solo activities, and we will not push everyone into low sec (nudge not push), you will still be able to make a good living in high-sec.
Thanks Zrakor. I do have a concern based on what I've read today that empire space will end up being a dead end though, especially if you remove some of my favorite/most difficult missions. I was actually hoping for more challenges, not less. Harder missions with nerfed rewards would be more fun than easier missions (yawn) with normal rewards, so I'm really not trying to get something for nothing. The way it seems now, it is my way of playing that is going to being nerfed. I hope I am wrong. I do not enjoy PvP combat, nor will I ever. I've been playing since the game came out and no amount of carrots or sticks will change me. That's just the way it is.
That being said, here's the list (based on flying a high end CNR). They are all fairly easy, so I'm ranking them based on how much a bad Internet connection would make me sweat...
1. Angel Extravaganza Bonus Section (love that retirement home, lost a CNR once while sweating) 2. Stop the Thief (hardest on my tank I'd say) 3. Worlds Collide (if you don't know what to do, it will probably kill you) 4. Vengeance (not hard, but some have problems with the tank on last BS) 5. Blockade (if you don't know what to do, it could get very bad)
In Caldari space, Guristas Extravaganza isn't as hard as Angel Extravaganza, but would still be in the top 5.
Mordus Headhunters might deserve to be on the list. It does have a certain shock and awe factor to it, although it seems more bark than bite when you actually do it.
I reject In the Midst of Deadspace and Enemies Abound due to standing hits, so can't comment on those. By the sounds of it, perhaps at least one of those deserves to make the list as well.
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Xori Ruscuv
SniggWaffe Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.02.24 06:09:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 24/02/2007 06:06:33 My opinion on these changes:
I enjoy PVP. It is what I do. The **** state of the T2 market and bloody resellers make PVP expensive. In order to compete in PVP, I have to buy expensive things. I have two accounts. My other account funds my expensive things. That account has a T2 fit raven, which I run missions on when I need money.
Level 4 missions' value is killed = I don't have income I don't have income = I can't PVP I can't PVP = I quit I quit = you lose 2x paying accounts
Hundreds - IF NOT THOUSANDS - if PVPers/pirates do this.
Take your pick!
(See, I make money so that I can spend money. You can't encourage people to spend money by taking their money away.)
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
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Mikal Drey
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.24 08:07:00 -
[97]
hey hey
after a nights sleep on it I think the changes are for the worse.
the jump to L4 missions has been greater because its the top level of mission and the constant cries of 1-2 month old characters being able to do them solo has always been shouted loudest. now your making them easier ? ? ?? ? thats a sad day indeed.
L5 missions into low sec . . Grief fest for mission runners Good day for pierats the fact that they are going to be more like the curent l4's but with sightly adjusted difficulty and the Capital Class capabilities . . I See Dead Carriers. what i dont see is an attempt to poppulate low sec. :(
L6/7 for Capital pilots ? totally cant see the point here and not even sure whats trying to be achieved.
Escallation path in missions .. sounds retty good and may lead somewhere but can this be done dynamicly because what will happen is peeps will find the mission that escallates and just hit that one over and over again as well as DT farm it.
as to difficulty . .they truly arent difficult.
do a mission once and you get the see what spawns, how it works etc. do it a second time to confirm suspicions. do it a third to master it.
The new blockade was well thought up and was a good attempt at dynamic content in a mission but even then all you needed to do was remember not to kill the odd named ship. Mordus, Zor, Silence, Worlds collide all have their tricks that made them alot easier. Even when you get whole pocket aggro it still was very easy because you had other tricks you could do to help with agro management.
I think that making misions more Dynamic and Content more fun and varied is the direction in which missions need to go. If group content is what you guys at CCP are thinking then you could have missions require multiple skilled things eg mining/shooty shooty. or haulling that "might" require an escort. I think it would be fun if you were doing a courier mission then encountered a NPC hyjack team :)
I think that Bigger Badder Harder and Faster doesnt create a better or more difficult mission. It just made people think first before going in solo. @Zrakor you have a pretty clever and intellegent playerbase i think its time ou guys at CCP hit back with even more clever and ebil content. Whoever designed some of the COSMOS missions should help out after all look at the agony avot the kutill datachip mission :) although now you sorted that
Sorry for the long post, Mikal Drey
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J Valkor
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Posted - 2007.02.24 09:26:00 -
[98]
Edited by: J Valkor on 24/02/2007 09:24:09 Enemies Abound (1/5) Pirate Slaughter Vengeance
Two of those are the only ones I have had to warp out for. I don't exactly know what it is about those two. Most missions I can agg the whole room and by the time most of the enemies get in range to do their max DPS most of them are dead anyhow. Not those though. As for Vengeance, that final BS takes a while to kill.
I am 15 mil SP Nighthawk pilot.
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Tyler Lowe
Minmatar DROW Org
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Posted - 2007.02.24 09:45:00 -
[99]
Having spent a few minutes looking through and reading the requests for help and complaints about the same missions in multiple threads on this section of the forums:
Enemies Abound Stop the Thief Vengeance Pirate Slaughter
Those are your most complained about missions, in no particular order.
Since, as an "experienced" mission runner, I don't find any of the level 4's particularly difficult, the number of compliants and requests for help generated by specific missions on the forums seems a much more reasonable measurement of difficulty than my personal experience or opinion.
I did not see enough complaints about any other specific mission to include it in the list, although I guess you could add whatever other missions you'd like to "put in context with what [you] believe is the right context."
J.A.F.O.
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Galk
Gallente Autumn Tactics All the things she said
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Posted - 2007.02.24 11:09:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Galk on 24/02/2007 11:33:30
Originally by: Zrakor and we will not push everyone into low sec (nudge not push), you will still be able to make a good living in high-sec.
Hehe.
Doesn't take a chimp to realise that the rewards could never be high enough to cover those costs of losing those ships at gates.
Don't you listen.... NOBODY is going to be flying around in mission viable ships in low sec over gates.
Missions are a resource GRIND... so it becomes far less appealing to be doing missions in a ship fitted with standard t1/2 gear.. where you end up having to warp out... doubling/trebling the time it takes to complete it.
unless you have some trump card up your sleeve i don't know about, with what we have now... you could never entice any isk/resource gatherer into low sec... you will allways be making more in ubber fitted gist ravens in high sec over poor counterparts in low sec...
And you know as well as i... you can't raise the bar that high in low sec.. because the organised pro's will just exploit it.
Gl anyway... if there were one suggestion, id say lose the traveling 70-90km gates in low sec. ______
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Bunds
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Posted - 2007.02.24 11:59:00 -
[101]
i would say pirate slaughter-guristas wc -serpentis/guristas enemies abound 5 of 5 angel extrava bonus stage stop the theif.
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Cyclops43
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Posted - 2007.02.24 12:20:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Zrakor We'll be spicing up the level 4 missions in Empire space with escalating paths, possible commander spawns etc. They won't be as profitable or as hard as level 5 missions, but if you're looking for solo activity they will be fine.
At the moment, I think the difficulty level of lvl 4's is generally ok. There aren't many that are too tough for a decently skilled BS pilot, and you REALLY should leave the difficulty level of them as they are. There are quite a few players who're casual players (i.e. they don't have time to find a group of other players to run low-sec missions with), and if you remove the difficult level 4's, you'll be cutting these players off in challenges at about 3-4 months gaming time. So please, don't nerf level 4's (yes, removing the difficult missions IS nerfing, no matter what you try to call it).
Originally by: Zrakor We are also working at giving players more tools to fight against pirates in low sec. We want to see mission runners group up and fight as a gang, defend each other, make corporations and even alliances based on this. The bread and butter of mmorgs is group play, and we really want to nudge people into that.
Sorry, but I think you're promising more than you can deliver here....
The pirate has all the advantages over anyone else in low-sec, purely for one reason: HE picks whoever he attacks! The PvE'er will be dead if he's attacked, pure and simple! Why? Because the attacker fits his ship to do that, while the PvE'er has fitted his ship to fight NPC's. In addition, the attacker has NO risk, since the PvE'er will not fit warp scramblers.
It's all well and good for you to talk about 'groups', 'corps' and 'alliances' etc., but in reality it doesn't work, since the people with that inclination is already in 0.0. The only people who WOULD group up in low-sec are the PIRATES!
Also remember that many pirate characters are ALT accounts, while a lot (maybe most) mission characters are single/main accounts. This is a very significant difference, because if the pirate is camped in, he'll just play his other character, but if the mission runner is camped in, he is UNABLE to play!!!!
For this to work, you'd have to drastically change the way either low-sec or missions work.
For low-sec, it currently isn't 'LOW-sec'. It is 'no-bloody-security-whatsoever' and is (much) more dangerous than 0.0. To make it possible to PvE here, you'd have to help the PvE'er significantly. The only thing I can really think would work somewhat, is CONCORD assistance if attacked. I'm not thinking high-sec CONCORD insta-death, but a measured response that takes away the pirate's numerical and fitting advantages.
For missions, there's already been some suggestions in this thread, but here are a couple more: 1. Reintroduce mines. Make it possible to deploy mines around accelleration gates or something like that... 2. Make hacking an acceleration gate required before a pirate can come through, with the mission runner getting a warning or something like that.
As I said before, I REALLY don't think you can make low-sec attractive to mission runners unless you severely nerf pirating (or make low-sec MORE profitable than 0.0). Look at the reasons above for why....
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Joshua Deakin
Gallente A.W.M Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.02.24 12:47:00 -
[103]
In the midst of deadspace 4/5 second room. It's supposedly easy, only has a few ships and a gate to be destroyed. Problem is that there's a trigger (I don't what/how the trigger works) and the second room can be a full of reinforcements. I asked for a help and unfortunately the helper (T2 fitted Raven) was only able to boost about three times before his shields were down, he tried to warp out (was not scrambled) but just didn't have enough time align and warp. Needless to say I had to decline the mission with a severe faction loss. -------------------------------------------------
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Ludmilla Derik
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Posted - 2007.02.24 15:28:00 -
[104]
I say every Mission is easy when you know exactly what happens when you do this or that.
The real Challange is SURPRISE.
I saw that in the new Exploration Complexes, they are (were) a lot of fun fly. But after the 10 times you know exactly which ship you have to shoot as last for the respawn and so on.
So here is my Idea for the new Mission: Make the triggers for respawns and aggro Triggers normal NPC Ships. So you see 5 Cruisers in the first spawn, all the same name and one is the Bomb respawing 8 cruisers. In this respawn (again the same typs as to begin) is also one trigger for the last respawn.
So doing that mission can be quiet easy and boring ( shooting the triggers at last) or more challenging as you can have suddendly 15+ Crusiers on you ( bad luck you shoot both thriggers)
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Aramendel
Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.02.24 16:38:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Cyclops43 Also remember that many pirate characters are ALT accounts, while a lot (maybe most) mission characters are single/main accounts. This is a very significant difference, because if the pirate is camped in, he'll just play his other character, but if the mission runner is camped in, he is UNABLE to play!!!!
Riiiiiight. Assumptions != facts.
Personally I see far far more people saying they have missionrunning alts than PvP alts.
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Cyclops43
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Posted - 2007.02.24 17:55:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Cyclops43 Also remember that many pirate characters are ALT accounts, while a lot (maybe most) mission characters are single/main accounts. This is a very significant difference, because if the pirate is camped in, he'll just play his other character, but if the mission runner is camped in, he is UNABLE to play!!!!
Riiiiiight. Assumptions != facts.
Personally I see far far more people saying they have missionrunning alts than PvP alts.
As there is no statistics on this, I had nothing to go from except what is common among the people I talk to in the game. That's as close to facts as I or anyone else can get... Most of the people this char (my oldest, btw.) talks to are people with single accounts, and they generally do missions. Most people other characters chat to are in 0.0 PvP corp, and if they pirate, it's with an alt.
It doesn't really matter anyway, because no matter what, all these single-account mission runner players will NOT be able to play if camped, and playing IS what they're paying for. That is not a good incentive to keep p(l)aying...
Imagine having an hour to play EVE in the evening after the kids have been put to bed. Looking forward to a little bit of relaxation (and the player has played EVE for a while, so lvl 4's offer no challenge, especially if they're nerfed as suggested). DOH! Station/system camped by pirates, so can't do anything. A typical reaction would be 'Why the h... am I paying for this!', which I don't really think is the reaction CCP would like people to have when trying to play.
Also, in your last sentence, you're assuming that PvP=Pirate. However, I specifically meant PIRATE alts, not PvP alts (of which there are very few). There is a large difference between the two.
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Zhaine
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.02.24 19:38:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Zhaine on 24/02/2007 19:35:44 Pirate Slaughter is nasty Enemies Abound hurts Vengeance and Worlds Colide I turn down
Apart from that I'm sure it's the Extravs, but my agents never ever seem to give them to me. Blockade is easy (ie it never challenges a good tank, which the above do) but I'm pretty sure it's by far the most isk/hour on the current LvL 4s.
Off topic:
If you can't see a problem with being able to make isk/hour comparable (though maybe not equal) to 0.0 ratting with zero risk or chance of interuption (which hi sec running is) then you fundamentally mis-understand how this game works and is intended to work.
If you don't believe you should have to undertake risk and work with others to get the best rewards then you're playing the wrong game.
If you don't think CCP are considering those who want to solo in empire and ensuring that they still have something to do then, well, you can't read.
And low sec running is really not very dangerous. Pick your spot, don't use drones, turn down missions where you have to move systems (or use a scout). Don't believe the hype!
EDIT: Oh and just to clear any confusion, this char never runs missions. I run them in low sec with my alt. - - - - - - - - - -
Give this a read. |
JonShannow
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Posted - 2007.02.24 20:43:00 -
[108]
Only mission I regulary turn down are the Drone ones, Enemies Abound 5/5 the others are simple, maybe make 5/5 an escalation into low sec ?
As for the large portion of the mission runners income being nerfed, if I find myself unable to suuport my two chars and my lil toys, say bubye to my subs.
I would like to see some low quality level 5 agents in high sec, so at least you could take a look at em before risking your favourite faction fitted toy.
The idea of being able to if you wanted to use capital ships in missions would be fun, but I cant see that many folks going for it.
I understand why you want to make low sec more attractive and as you say nudge people into pvp, but the fact that it can take you weeks/months to get a faction fitted ship or a capital means folks just aint gonna risk em unless there is a huge increase in rewards.
Jon.
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Rossarian
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Posted - 2007.02.24 20:44:00 -
[109]
Edited by: Rossarian on 24/02/2007 20:42:38
Originally by: Zhaine
If you can't see a problem with being able to make isk/hour comparable (though maybe not equal) to 0.0 ratting with zero risk or chance of interuption (which hi sec running is) then you fundamentally mis-understand how this game works and is intended to work.
Indeed I don't see a problem there since running missions with the kind of efficiency that puts them close to 0.0 ratting requires a huge investment. Nothing wrong with getting good return on such an investment. Or would you rather we sell our faction ships and invest in T2 reselling, which actually is probably more profitable?
But of course I just play the wrong game, seeing how the most important qualities of the ideal EVE player seem to be a burning desire to spoil other people's days and to dictate the way others have to play to enjoy themselves...
Too bad I feel bad about hurting innocents and don't give a rats ass how others play the game.
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TROY STUBBER
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Posted - 2007.02.24 22:19:00 -
[110]
Bottom line is they want to move hardest missions that need faction setup to space where t2 is best people have. As a result all those faction fitted cnr's can finally rest since plain t2 drake is all u need to run lvl'3 or whatever lvl4's will become. I dont see how anyone will benefit from this since even complex runners wont be able to sell their stuff. I fly 5b+ ships with best imps and 40m sp so there no missions too difficult for me. But i'm sure there many people who think that their only gist booster is not worth losing for lausy or "difficult" mission in low space. If someone can think of a content that can make me want to go in my fancy ship to low space knowing full well all it takes is 2 nos happy domi's to bring me down im listening. |
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Gabriel'sBitch
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.02.25 01:25:00 -
[111]
Quote: Levels 5 and 6 will be open to certain capital ship classes (possibly all, including those moved from 4 to 5),
See that? Now you can run those "hard lv4 missions" in cap mod fitted carriers, super domi with figters + heavy + med + light ftw? say bye bye to low sec gankers, they better have a fleet of nanodomi ready... if I don't see them on scanner first.
Oh I forgot, there's a holy law that forbids anything to do with low sercuity. ----------------------------------------------- I am a forum alt, my main is too shy to show his face. |
The Fates
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2007.02.25 11:18:00 -
[112]
Edited by: The Fates on 25/02/2007 11:18:52 Edited by: The Fates on 25/02/2007 11:16:14 1. Enemies Abound, 5 of 5. If you don't get there the minute you take this mission and the npc's get a chance to build up you will NOT complete this mission solo. This one to me is the nastiest of all of them if you don't get a handle on it right after you click "Don't worry, you know I'm up to it".
2. Vengeance, Guristas Edition. The combination of the npc's here and then being jammed can result in the loss of an expensive ship. Rachen at the end has a tank that the first time you meet it, in addition to the sentry guns, will mean you are warping out to refit if you killed the scrambling frigs. If you didnt kill the frigs first you might be in trouble.
There's really no clear winner for spots 3 through 5 in my book, as the rest of the missions seem to depend a lot on what you fly and how its set-up. I'd say some of the other missions that will give you pause have been mentioned, Silence the Informant, Extravangazas, Pirate Slaughter, Right Hand of Zazzmatazz, and The Rouge Slave Traders (part 2). It really depends on your skill level for these, and what makes the above two missions stand out is that no matter how much skill you have or how good your setup is you can still get into trouble. That, or if you agro the whole stage in a lot of missions... but thats a mistake you soon learn to avoid.
And for the love of God if you don't run missions would you stfu.
Almost forgot... the extra stages in the extravs seem to be paticularly nasty, although they arent required to complete the missions.
Originally by: Sun Tzu In war, then, let your great object be victory, not lengthy campaigns.
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Roy Gordon
Caldari The Star Wolves
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Posted - 2007.02.25 12:41:00 -
[113]
Can't we just leave things the way they are now please. I am one of those players who through no fault of their own cannot play for more than a couple of hours per night as a rule (girlfriend, family, job commitments etc). The only way I can make decent isk is by mission running in 0.5 and above systems. I cannot afford to replace my ships on a regular basis, and thats what will happen if I'm forced to go to low sec/0.0 systems to mission run. And why pick on mission runners? What about asteroid miners? They can make a fortune in high sec systems from mining, are you going to require them to move to low sec as well? To be honest, I think there is an agenda behind this. I suspect the corps/alliances which control the low sec/0.0 systems have been the driving force behind all these changes. Who are the devs going to listen to, the small corp/solo mission running players or the HUGE great corps/alliances? And remember this little point as well, how on Earth are us small fry going to be able to mission run in low sec/0.0 anyway when all the systems with decent agents are owned/controlled by said corps/alliances? They are not exactly welcoming of us now, let alone when the changes take place. Yes, I know you can pay the corps/alliances to let you mission run in the systems they control, but this gives no guarantees for your safety either in my experience. That which does not kill us makes us stronger. The Universe is ruled by three basic principles- Matter, Energy and Enlightened Self-Interest! |
Danjira Ryuujin
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Posted - 2007.02.25 12:49:00 -
[114]
1. Enemies Abound 2. Pirate Slaughter 3. Worlds Collide 4. ... 5. ...
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Rakeris
Brethren Empire
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Posted - 2007.02.25 14:17:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Elsinaril Blockade (vs DED) Worlds Collide (vs Sansha + Gallente) Mordus Headhunters Vengeance (vs Mordus) Angel Extravaganza (bonus level)
Mirrors my opinion. ^^ (Only I don't do the angel extra mission anymore as I like my angel rep)
---------- I gave up on sigs. As all the beatings are starting to hurt and leave nasty bruises. |
VaderDSL
Caldari Orcus Inferno
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Posted - 2007.02.25 15:39:00 -
[116]
Is the last stage of pirate slaughter dificult? Reason I ask is my passive tanked vulture took aggro from everything in all the stages and lowest the shields got was 72%
Were these easy missions or relatively difficult, saying that 91% Kinetick 94% thermal may have something to do with it and 22,750 shields
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Zhaine
Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.02.25 16:03:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Roy Gordon Can't we just leave things the way they are now please. I am one of those players who through no fault of their own cannot play for more than a couple of hours per night as a rule (girlfriend, family, job commitments etc). The only way I can make decent isk is by mission running in 0.5 and above systems. I cannot afford to replace my ships on a regular basis, and thats what will happen if I'm forced to go to low sec/0.0 systems to mission run. And why pick on mission runners? What about asteroid miners? They can make a fortune in high sec systems from mining, are you going to require them to move to low sec as well? To be honest, I think there is an agenda behind this. I suspect the corps/alliances which control the low sec/0.0 systems have been the driving force behind all these changes. Who are the devs going to listen to, the small corp/solo mission running players or the HUGE great corps/alliances? And remember this little point as well, how on Earth are us small fry going to be able to mission run in low sec/0.0 anyway when all the systems with decent agents are owned/controlled by said corps/alliances? They are not exactly welcoming of us now, let alone when the changes take place. Yes, I know you can pay the corps/alliances to let you mission run in the systems they control, but this gives no guarantees for your safety either in my experience.
You have a lot of misconceptions about low sec, 0.0, alliances and the distribution of players in Eve. . . I don't what you base a lot of that on but most of it simply isn't true. - - - - - - - - - -
Give this a read. |
Galk
Gallente Autumn Tactics All the things she said
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Posted - 2007.02.25 16:24:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Cyclops43
Also remember that many pirate characters are ALT accounts, while a lot (maybe most) mission characters are single/main accounts. This is a very significant difference, because if the pirate is camped in, he'll just play his other character, but if the mission runner is camped in, he is UNABLE to play!!!!
Exactly.
Not exactly sure about the pk's being mainly alt's, but the rest is spot on.
Again the mission dev falls on that ccp line of 'mmorpg' we want players to work together ect.... not (well im sure he does) realising that many mission runners take out another 'subscription' to avoid just that...
As for corps/alliances.. forming to battle it out...
You have to wonder why ccp choose to make such statement.
It ain't gona happen... there's no money in it... your not fighting for the right to farm that plex... not fighting for the rights to strip the belts clean of bist/crok ect... there's no space for an outpost at a moon near you.. and ofc on simple set... most people are there, well just to run missions like.
If somebody would care to explain what actual incentive there is to be an 'anti' pk'er, im all ears..
I can only see good faith and character from individuals... not corps nor alliances of mission runners.... fighting back against the invisible enemy.
Invisible enemy:
Basicaly how it is if you have any experience of low sec anti'ing.... no matter what ccp do in game (short of pushing ships outside of stations, keeping them logged in space) thats exactly how it pans out.
Your average pk'er in eve (in my experience) gets more of a trip knowing your wasting your time.. while he sits in a cloaked ship, or sat in a station... afk asleep or at school ect,, correct ofc if you are there to run missions, as he well knows.
______
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Xori Ruscuv
SniggWaffe Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.02.25 21:24:00 -
[119]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 25/02/2007 21:21:15
Don't discount the pirates who pirate with their mains and make money with the alt. This is not uncommon. (see my post earlier)
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
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Tragus
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Posted - 2007.02.25 22:01:00 -
[120]
Great thread.
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J Valkor
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Posted - 2007.02.25 22:02:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Galk
Again the mission dev falls on that ccp line of 'mmorpg' we want players to work together ect.... not (well im sure he does) realising that many mission runners take out another 'subscription' to avoid just that...(mainly because it's not in your interest to form a gang to run a mission.. as the ccp top management choose to not allocate resources to see a shared rewards system structured into the game) (according to zhrakor anyway.. even though he's developed it)
Read the Dev Blog. Everything else in your post was discounted when you stated, quite clearly, in that paragraph, that you did not read the Dev Blog.
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Galk
Gallente Autumn Tactics All the things she said
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Posted - 2007.02.25 23:08:00 -
[122]
Youre right i don't, i read one of two of the early ones, i take stuff as it comes as half of whats writen never comes about anyway.
Tbh it's been a long standing one, so my words there were based on the ignorance shown on the issue over that time.
Wasn't aware of whats been noted till i started reading that other thread, i guess it comes about now because there moving anything that's an entity of a challenge to low sec.
Doing there old trick of crapping the level that stands now, bringing in the 'shiney' new thing with bells and whistles... which in fact ofc what we have now.
They've done it before.
Won't work anyway (not bitterness i assure you) but ccp are in dreamland if they belive good people are going to head up toe to toe with the pk'ers in low sec..
iv'e been there done it, 95% of it is boring and crap....
Esentialy it's just spawn camping, nobody (well i had 2 fights in 2 years, of any note) actualy is prepared to fight with you unless they can either win easily with a gank, or get away.
When neither is going to happen if you do organise.. they just laugh at you trying, as i said before. ______
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Veryez
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Posted - 2007.02.26 02:49:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Zrakor Edited by: Zrakor on 23/02/2007 13:44:38 We'll be spicing up the level 4 missions in Empire space with escalating paths, possible commander spawns etc. They won't be as profitable or as hard as level 5 missions, but if you're looking for solo activity they will be fine.
We are also working at giving players more tools to fight against pirates in low sec. We want to see mission runners group up and fight as a gang, defend each other, make corporations and even alliances based on this. The bread and butter of mmorgs is group play, and we really want to nudge people into that. But we will not remove solo activities, and we will not push everyone into low sec (nudge not push), you will still be able to make a good living in high-sec.
If I believed for one second you would do this in a competent mannor I would answer your question. However you don't have my trust (lost that last December or did you forget), nor are you likely to get it. When I have 1 hour to play, I don't want to spend 45 minutes getting a group together, nor do I want to get involved in "Escallating paths". Forget faction spawns - I have all the junk ammo I need. This is why I joined eve, so that if all I had was 45 minutes to play I could do something. When I have 5 hours to play I could join a gang and blow someone up. If you wish to nerf missions/high sec such that I cannot earn enough isk to buy ships/modules to compete w/people in Losec/0.0, and you expect my help in the matter? No.
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Xelios
Minmatar Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.02.26 05:03:00 -
[124]
I have to say Worlds Collide is probably the easiest lvl 4 mission if you're just concerned with getting it done and getting the lp. Fit up a few nanos, an AB, and a cap injected tank then make a run for each gate. Kill the frigs so they don't web you, get to the last stage, blow up the armory and you're done. Takes me 10 minutes max for 12k lp.
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Pytria Le'Danness
Placid Reborn
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Posted - 2007.02.26 07:47:00 -
[125]
I usually fly lvl 4 missions for Astral Mining solo since my euro corpmates are more of the trading type. To do that I use a heavily tanked Domi with 2 LR2, 4 T2 hardeners. Recently I upgraded it with resistance and repair rigs, but there was little noticeable benefit.
Those are the missions I regularly decline because I think they are too tough for the effort:
- Pirate Slaughter (whole room aggro no matter what I do) - Right Hand of Zazzmatazz (very tough to tank since the whole room aggroes) - Smuggler Interception (doable, but tough. Warpouts are a PITA due to the long travel)
I used to decline these but haven't gotten them in a long time so I cannot judge them currently. - In the midst of Deadspace - Silence the Informant
I usually decline - Angel Extravaganza - Serpentis Extravaganza because they take so long to complete that I am bored halfway through. I run missions for fun, these missions aren't.
Corporation RP channel: "PlacidReborn" |
BigRed
This Space 4 Rent
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Posted - 2007.02.26 10:06:00 -
[126]
Only mission I decline is enemies abound 5/5. Everything else I can do with a bit of tinkering about with my setups on ships.
Personally I would like you to leave all the lvl 4 missions alone and just start from scratch when making the lvl 5 missions. For me mission running is a way of funding other activities I take part in within eve. - Big & Red - |
Neuromandis
EPSILON TEAM Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2007.02.26 11:17:00 -
[127]
1) Pirate Slaughter (Guristas): The DPS in the mass-aggro of the last room is hilarious 2) Enemies Abound 3) Angel Extravaganza 4) Worlds Collide, IF the last room does full aggro 5) ???
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Jhereck
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Posted - 2007.02.26 14:11:00 -
[128]
Does Ccp know (or just you Zrakor) that a majority of the players have a life and does not play all the day ??
There's a suscription to pay per month :)
So if such a simple man want to play after a hard day of work, or after a clash with his/ her girl/boy friend, he usually want to run a mission he knows, so he can play about an hour, earn some ISK and go to bed to work the following day.
The simple man don't want to bother with pirates who just want to make people waste their times as they are wasting their time.
So this simple man will just not go in low sec, because he does not want to loose a billion ship and 100 m implants, neither he want to fly in a t1 ship...
And if this simple man can't make his favourite missions in high sec anymore, he simply close is suscription and try a new mmorpg which correspond to his playing time.
Ccp should think to the repercutions this modification could have on high sec missions runners, which are a great part of Eve players.
The problem is not there. If you want people to play together, make lvl 4 missions more difficult and move some of the most difficult complexes in high sec for people to gang do it.
Give real weapons to missions runners against pirates also, because they're is a lot of high quality lvl 4 agents in low sec. People how travel in low sec can be attacked all the time. A pirate how comes in high sec is in secure zone until he attacks somebody.... There's a problem : alloy people to attack pirates in high sec if their SS is below a certain level.
Some gate alert modules are welcome also.
Pirate's job is too easy to manage at this time. They should be tracked by authorities and people who want to see them dead (in high sec of course).
To make a 5th missions category in low sec is a good idea. People who are looking for more challenge could try them.
But why nerfing lvl 4 which are, according to experienced missions runners, already too easy, and force (this is the right term) people to move in low sec ??
This could only result in a loss of regular, non no life players which want to play quietly, without wanting to mine or discuss with stupid pirates who are always saying peoples in high sec are carebears.
Just remember that some people got a (real) life, and (or) they don't want to annoy their virtual neighbors
* Sorry for the mistakes I'm not a fluently english speaker
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.26 14:17:00 -
[129]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 26/02/2007 14:14:27
Originally by: Zrakor Edited by: Zrakor on 23/02/2007 13:44:38 We'll be spicing up the level 4 missions in Empire space with escalating paths, possible commander spawns etc. They won't be as profitable or as hard as level 5 missions, but if you're looking for solo activity they will be fine.
We are also working at giving players more tools to fight against pirates in low sec. We want to see mission runners group up and fight as a gang, defend each other, make corporations and even alliances based on this. The bread and butter of mmorgs is group play, and we really want to nudge people into that. But we will not remove solo activities, and we will not push everyone into low sec (nudge not push), you will still be able to make a good living in high-sec.
Zaknor, you are better than Oveur at making a smooth talk, but I, and I think most of us, dubt very much the end result.
Excalating path, seen that in exploration: dead end most of the time, no decent reward the rest.
Commander spawn: I reiterate what I have sayd in another thread: 99 mission give 1 million, 1 give 101 million, average is 2 million, but 99 people get 1 million, 1 get 101, this is not balance, I am doing that kind of game with the T2 lottery, but there the R&D agend don't fire back.
etc. = we haven't jet decided what?
Better anti pirate tools work only if you have the manpower, time, and resurces. Today pirate corporation and alliance have capital ships. So the inexperienced (with capitals) mission runners should cower them with the powers they display? It will be like the people buying a faction fitted CNR with GTC and losing it in a level 3 mission.
Gettin a anti-pirate allince? Again a great offer: build a 0.0 like structure to get low sec rewards. Who will do that and spend all the time required to run a similar alliance, will go to 0.0 directly.
An more: seeing the forum post in the Alliance sector I will not enter one. Those seem full of gung-ho youngster (in mind in not in body) willing to bully everone they feel is not playing the right way.
Most high sec corporation are made of people with limited time banding togheter to get some fun. Moving one of those in low sec - 0.0 is simply giving some lamb to slaughter to player with more time to dedicate to the game, and so the capacity of gater the blobs to destroy everithing on theyr path.
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Little Benjamin
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.02.26 14:19:00 -
[130]
I'm flying a nano-ishtar (around 900 speed, 2x named large shield extenders, t1 heavys, drone range ~100km) for gallente missions...
most disliked: slave traders (web + heavy em damage) angel missions (damage type, missiles) zazzmatazz (damage type) mordus hunters(missiles) missions with empire faction standing losses
most liked (consider them easy): vengeance, blockade, (put on second sensor booster and fine) WC, (1x warp out for initial gurista-spawn) serp extravaganza, in general serpentis missions... (you can pretty easy outmaneuver all ships, even the tackler frigs are slow)
but most feared is connection loss while t2 meds are out...
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ScreamingLord Sutch
Hand in Mouth
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Posted - 2007.02.26 15:40:00 -
[131]
Mordus headhunters
Pirate slaughter (or invasion - I forget)
Angel Extrav
Silence the informant
Worlds collide
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Dolly Parton
Amarr 5punkorp Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.02.26 16:02:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Dolly Parton i will start attacking every dev i see if they screw with my LP by nerfing my lvl 4 agents. i have 350k LP, 3x different agents, and you will owe me 3 amarr navy BS if you do and i will collect.
now to your request
enemies abound pirate slaughter (gurista) all the others are not hard to me so there you go thats my list
after this weekend and tweaking my tank need to update.
don't like right hand of some dumbass enemies abound massive attack
the first one is hard as well and never had an outcome i like. can do with domi supporting my tank but still the mission isn't worth the hassle.
enemies abound, why would you want to do that mission, risk everything you got and for what a faction standing hit. not a chance
massive attack, the stupidest lvl 4 mission you have come up with. lose all the frigs, change them to destroyers if need be. the cruisers once again change to BC. where are the BS? lvl 4 i think of BS and BC laying waste to you, if i wanted frigs I would still be doing lvl 2-3 missions
for the love of everything holy, gurista missions - why the need to make us travel so far. I am killing them all and still have 80km to go. so space gates at 50km and when they are all dead i can go kill some more instead of go grind some coffee, make a cup, then decide i need to make dinner go kill and pluck a chicken, disembowel it, roast it, eat it, take a dump and then go back to find out i still have 30km to go. *** Any comments made are mine and mine alone! *** |
Deez Nuttzy
Caldari Dark Order Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.02.26 16:10:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Zrakor Edited by: Zrakor on 23/02/2007 13:44:38 We are also working at giving players more tools to fight against pirates in low sec. We want to see mission runners group up and fight as a gang, defend each other, make corporations and even alliances based on this. The bread and butter of mmorgs is group play, and we really want to nudge people into that. But we will not remove solo activities, and we will not push everyone into low sec (nudge not push), you will still be able to make a good living in high-sec.
no you want to make this 100% PvP but the community who pays your checks doesn't want it but you do it anyways. Hmm and you wonder why people leave and talk trash about the DEVS. Just add on Lvl 5-7. Leave the others alone. Fix the **** LAG issue and you will all be nominated for Noble Prize. I love your game but your management ****es a lot of us off. The Eve I loved in the beginning is slowly being ripped apart and stepped on to just make a minority happy. Stop making all the asses in game happy and screwing over the common guy that comes to have some fun only to be grieved by the people you support. You can try and argue that its not you goal but it is.
This is not directed at you (Zrakor) but the DEV team itself.
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Commodore Yan
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Posted - 2007.02.26 16:46:00 -
[134]
Please, please, someone tell me what a CNR is ?
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Mikal Drey
Purgatorial Janitors Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.26 17:13:00 -
[135]
Edited by: Mikal Drey on 26/02/2007 17:10:03 Edited by: Mikal Drey on 26/02/2007 17:09:53
Originally by: Commodore Yan Please, please, someone tell me what a CNR is ?
Caldari Navy Raven. Generally considers by realmenÖ mission runners to be a n00bship of caldari design.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.26 20:16:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Commodore Yan Please, please, someone tell me what a CNR is ?
(Caldari) Raven Navy Issue probably RNI hadn't the right ring
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Guillame Herschel
Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires
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Posted - 2007.02.26 22:22:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar What the hell is so wrong with running missions fast in a faction fitted CNR? People spend 2 bil + for those ships, and getting a decent return on that investment is wrong how?
A ship is not an investment, it's a target. That's what's wrong.
Quote: People invest 100 mil into a crap fitted battleship in 0.0 and rake in MUCH more cash with ratting and plexing, but I guess that is fine because people in 0.0 are the friendliest and most reasonable players possible and people in highsec are sploiting and cheating sociopaths...
But you're the one who wants to play solo, flying undisturbed in your "investment."
-- Guile can always trump hardware -- |
DiNoer
MetaForge Ekliptika
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Posted - 2007.02.26 23:03:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Mikal Drey Caldari Navy Raven. Generally considers by realmenÖ mission runners to be a n00bship of caldari design.
QFT
Anyways, on topic:
Any of the missions are hell in space if you do em wrong. Some of the missions have odd random generators in em, someone quete me for the right mission name (It's the one with Minnie ships, once you kill the BS a whole fleet spawns on top of you) we lost a expensive Raven doing it wrongly.
The pride of Caldari design went down like a Gallente working girl. The same mission had been done multiple times prior, without any hitches. Enemy #1 is lag in mission systems. But that is an other topic.
But my list prolly be sumething like this:
WC, never ever do this alone or with high lag Any rooms that full drone agro Any rooms that full agro anyways
Side note #1: If I where a designer of Missions I'd look to these issues; - Design out predictability and dullness! Make 3-7 variants of the same mission to add some excitement. - Is it storyline logical? - Is it game-world logical? Good example of this is 'In the mids of deadspace part5', your are the lone ranger against.. what? Most navies call a faking full out fleet. I'd go with fewer units per room/group but add to toughness and waves. - Stop stupid dullness! 120km flights in BS's in DS is... just a FU in your face from the designer.
Side note #2: The basic idea of trying to even 'nudge' mission runners to lowsec one has to fix these problems: - Lower the threshold for forming gangs. EVE's 'hardcoreness' is here the inherit big problem. Missions are run on the basis just opposite of this. Easy 'event' access, no need to idle around waiting for your m8's to log in and fit for their time frames. Minimal concern for pirates or roming gangs. You can focus on your mission enemy. There is no way to ensure the same kind of security in lowsec. No mission runner will gang up unless it's a long term friend or a RL m8 who can held accountable later if something goes amiss. - Fix NPC-police/naval forces. It's just silly that a person with 9,7 faction standing and a ziljon missions under his belt gets gunned down when DEFENDING one self? Com on! Secondly in an effort to lure hardcore mission runners to lewsec, have the local agents faction unites do a Conkordonken if in a mission situ gets agroed by a non-mission element.
I got a ton of ideas.. msg me if you want to hear more.
La prospTritT de l'Gme libre. La prospTritT de la fTdTration |
Talio ZomB
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Posted - 2007.02.27 14:04:00 -
[139]
* Enemies abound 5 of 5, its a race against time, but lag, reload delays, the stutter when a group aggros, the rest is very managable solo if u know what ur doing,
* Worlds Collide either serp/gurista room 2 with gang mates, personally I can solo both with a large t2 booster and 3 race specific hardners, and no warp out on gursita side if they dont jam, if they do I lose too much shield before I can killl of the dps. But I never feel at threat of losing ship till gang mates are involved.
* Pirate Invasion, room 3 all aggro, but 3 kin hardeners and a large t2 booster is all u need, again, if u know what your doing the mission is easy with no warp outs.
* AE bonus room, due to the tower sentry 3 and dmg booster cruise hitting.
I dont feel any other scenario or mission is worth mentioning. either due to the ease of warping out.
I use a large t2 booster all the time, I understand a lot of ppl use an XL, so I am regening less than others
I use t2 siege, most use cruise so apparently I am doing less dmg vs those cruisers and frigs etc, oh dear I must really be making things difficult,
personally I dont feel that way, missions are too easy, we need missions that are well hard demanding a multitude of pilot roles, damage dealers, tanks, support etc.
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Dezzereth
Two Swords Guild
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Posted - 2007.02.27 17:52:00 -
[140]
Np, Zarkor.
1.) Duo of Death 2.) [insert faction] Spies
Those are the most hardest - all the others are insanely easy ... please make those two lvl 5, or better yet lvl 6 and leave the rest of lvl 4s alone. Kthnxbye.
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Kittamaru
Gallente TARDZ Gods of Night and Day
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Posted - 2007.02.27 20:45:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Isiss Svorxvo Make sure to read the Dev Blog fully. They are planning on taking these missions, moving them to low sec, and nerfing level 4's down to the difficulty of level 3's. This may be fine for you and others, but those of us that do not wish to risk our ships full of T2 mods, faction ships, expensive implants, etc etc, think the missions are just fine left alone.
Risk vs Reward buddy... I run L2's in a .4 system that shall remain unnamed but I must say it's not as scary as you think long as you uave a brain to use :)
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Blue Wraith
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Posted - 2007.02.27 21:38:00 -
[142]
Zrakor, please do not take away the most challenging missions to low sec.
Like others, I'm sure, I prefer not to go to low sec. I view my mission ship as a managed-risk investment. I've lost a few, but in the long run it has paid off well, and my investment has grown. When you go to low sec, the managed-risk just becomes risk, subject to the whim of gangs of 12-year-olds with nothing better to do but grief people. Heck, 0.0 is not even as bad as low sec, and lowsec will be even worse if you move all L5 agents there.
As to your question, I'd say the most difficult ones for me to do are the market and courier missions (coming from my combat agents), because they seem like a waste of time. :-D Feel free to take those out and move them to low sec. ;-)
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Darthirishguy
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.02.28 12:02:00 -
[143]
Edited by: Darthirishguy on 28/02/2007 12:01:06 1. Courier mission when i already rejected the previous courier mission. 2. Mission where i shave to move 40,000m3. 3. Mission where i have to jump 8 jumps each way. 4. Mission where i get little LP. 5. Worlds collide. (only when all have agro)
ATM low sec is more dangerous than 0.0, if you move all the good missions there then there will be less mission runners. Anyone who runs lvl 4's atm does the missions that you're considering to move to lvl 5. And for the most part they are done with ease.
How about you just make new ones with a few missions on similar difficulty and some harder?? Don't take my missions. PLEASE!!
and personally I like to run missions solo. I don't want to wait for buddies to come online, and i prefer taking all the bounty for myself.
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Borasao
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Posted - 2007.02.28 16:39:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Zrakor Edited by: Zrakor on 23/02/2007 13:44:38 We'll be spicing up the level 4 missions in Empire space with escalating paths, possible commander spawns etc. They won't be as profitable or as hard as level 5 missions, but if you're looking for solo activity they will be fine.
Read: We're gonna give you a lobotomy, but you'll be fine. Trust us. We know what is 'fine' for you. Don't worry your pretty little head about it.
The arrogance of the devs on this is staggering.
Quote:
We are also working at giving players more tools to fight against pirates in low sec. We want to see mission runners group up and fight as a gang, defend each other, make corporations and even alliances based on this. The bread and butter of mmorgs is group play, and we really want to nudge people into that. But we will not remove solo activities, and we will not push everyone into low sec (nudge not push), you will still be able to make a good living in high-sec.
Your 'vision' has clouded you to reality. PvE mission runners do not want to fight gankbears, period. Unless you give them all a doomsday weapon that can be used, it won't matter what you put in. They will avoid the confrontation against gankbears. It's as much about avoiding the personalities as it is about losing ships.
Gankbears are not going to attack anyone that they can't gank. Mission runners will group up to run missions. PvE fittings do not compare well against PvP fittings. 10 PvE fitted BS will die to 10 PvP fitted BS, period. Mission runners may be carebears but we aren't stupid. Unfortunately, the devs and their gankbear friends think we are.
A nudge is as good as a push, in this case.
We'll be able to make a 'good living'. Sorry, the 'easier' L4s do not give you enough money to replace a lost battleship in a reasonable amount of time. Dumb down all the highsec missions to 'hard' L3 missions and force anyone into low/no sec space to do what we're doing now will just force many from the game.
Why not just remove highsec space from the game completely? That will also achieve your goal of 'nudging' everyone into low/no sec so your gankbear friends can chop them to pieces with glee.
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Garric Vor'g
Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.02.28 22:54:00 -
[145]
I agree with most people on that this is a ******* stupid idea. Not because I care one way or another about people being forced into low/no-sec, but because LVL 5 MISSIONS are supposed to be 2x as hard as any current lvl 4. They need that to truely be gang/corp/alliance missions. They need to be acceptable by corps/alliance members with the proper roles, and add a BM to all corp members while the mission is active. They need to give the corp/alliance the LP/ISK reward.
In short leave the lvl 4's as is, and create lvl 5's the way they are ment to be.
CRAZED & INSANE |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.01 01:28:00 -
[146]
1, World's Collide. (Lag)
2, Angle Extravaganza. (Lag)
3, Enimies Abound. DPS very high
4, Pirate Slaughter (Guristas or Angles) (Lag).
Don't have a number five. Sorry.
-AS |
Dravin Dread
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Posted - 2007.03.01 01:56:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Aramendel
Riiiiiight. Assumptions != facts.
Personally I see far far more people saying they have missionrunning alts than PvP alts.
A horse cart is a vehicle, regardless of which direction it is being pulled. |
Linium
Without Reason FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.01 02:12:00 -
[148]
1. Extravaganza 2. Pirate Slaughter 3. World Collide 4. The Assault 5. Silence the Informant
In no order, some are hard due to lag, insane dps, some are very long, some just aint worth the LP vs time. I tend to avoid these ones. ----------------------------------------------------
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d026
Herrscher der Zeit Jagdgeschwader Fallen Souls
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Posted - 2007.03.01 02:31:00 -
[149]
11. the assault 22. worlds collide 13. all other missions ******* my standing or trying to send me out 20 jumps or have 200k gates
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Phaedruss
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Posted - 2007.03.01 02:50:00 -
[150]
As many have said, most of the 'hard' lev 4 missions (as with lower level missions)are only hard if they're managed incorrectly. Work out how to do them, and they become very routine because they are so predictable. My 3 month old acccount solos almost all of the lev 4 missions in a Raven (in Amarr space). You 'could' say that working out how to do them in the first place is part of the challenge, but everyone I know refers to various mission info sites for that anyway, so it's no big deal.
Again, the ones I tend to reject if I have to do them solo are the ones that cause a lot of lag and where there's plenty of opportunity for a disconnection/lockup to get you killed fast. A laggy mission shouldn't be considered a hard one...it should be considered a bugged one that needs fixing.
For any new lev 5 missions being created, please don't just pile the rooms full of enemy...they're tedious and laggy. The way to increase the difficulty rating, as someone mentioned before, is to make them less predictable, and that require some brain cells to complete. The whole concept of being able to systematically destroy a room by taking them out group by group without aggro from anything else, even when they're in range, is pretty lame. Please get the mission builders to show some creativity and put the effort in to making some good quality new missions that will stand the test of time. In the meantime, this plan to mess with Lev 4 missions sounds like a recipe for disaster that's going to alienate a lot of current mission runners...another opportunity for something to get fubar'd.
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Gefex
Thunderbolts
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Posted - 2007.03.01 10:16:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Zrakor Edited by: Zrakor on 23/02/2007 13:44:38 We'll be spicing up the level 4 missions in Empire space with escalating paths, possible commander spawns etc. They won't be as profitable or as hard as level 5 missions, but if you're looking for solo activity they will be fine.
Think everyone is flying off the handle here, they are going to give level 4's a boost, make them more fun, add in some juicy faction spawns. How is that bad in any way?
Then they add in level 5's in low sec, which you can take capital ships into, which arent meant to be solo'd, along with some tools to defend against pirates.
The hi-sec soloers get a boost, people who enjoy playing in a group get something fun to do, low sec gets busier. Its win win all round.
I would gladly lose worlds collide to low sec if it meant the other lvl 4's were more fun, paid more and occasionally dropped a Gist shield booster
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Leandro Salazar
Bravehearts Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.01 11:00:00 -
[152]
Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 01/03/2007 10:59:58 Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 01/03/2007 10:56:36
Originally by: Gefex
Originally by: Zrakor Edited by: Zrakor on 23/02/2007 13:44:38 We'll be spicing up the level 4 missions in Empire space with escalating paths, possible commander spawns etc. They won't be as profitable or as hard as level 5 missions, but if you're looking for solo activity they will be fine.
Think everyone is flying off the handle here, they are going to give level 4's a boost, make them more fun, add in some juicy faction spawns. How is that bad in any way?
Then they add in level 5's in low sec, which you can take capital ships into, which arent meant to be solo'd, along with some tools to defend against pirates.
The hi-sec soloers get a boost, people who enjoy playing in a group get something fun to do, low sec gets busier. Its win win all round.
I would gladly lose worlds collide to low sec if it meant the other lvl 4's were more fun, paid more and occasionally dropped a Gist shield booster
Now view it in context:
Originally by: Oveur We're adding more Agent levels
There, I said it. Let's get it all into the open so we can start focusing on the finer points of it. This is part of a bigger strategy of the colonization of EVE, attempting to tie the higher levels of gameplay into the various aspects of EVE. The key points we feel are important here are:
Level 4 will become closer to Level 3 in difficulty, the jump up will not be as drastic as it is now. Level 5 will be the new level, consisting partly of the most difficult Level 4 missions, but mainly new missions. New missions in Levels 4 and up will focus on the escalating warfare between the Empires and factions. This incidentally enables you to engage Dreadnoughts, Carriers and Motherships. Levels 5 and up are all in 0.4 security and below. Level 6 will be a brand new Agent Level, Levels 5 and 6 will be open to certain capital ship classes (possibly all, including those moved from 4 to 5), Level 7 is still a possible addition, also a brand new agent Level, Level 7 would be open to all ship classes, except Titans.
I highlighted the only real issue with all of this.
Commander spawn chances already exist, yet are so slim they might as well not be there at all. Not to mention they drop crap most of the time anyway. Definitely not Gist stuff, that is plex loot. And escalating paths only lead to dead ends most of the time from all I hear. So essentially what Zrakor is saying is that they will add some lameass boring lvl 3.1 missions to highsec while taking all the good lvl4s to lowsec, pretty much ending the ship progression for highsec once you are in a Drake, and putting those missions where faction ships really shine out of the reach of faction ships into lowsec.
I would be fine with an agent quality nerf, or only factional warfare missions in highsec anymore. And for all I care double the rewards in lowsec. But do not remove any challenge for high end ships from highsec.
Of course, since the devs are all destructivist PvPers, it is probably their secret agenda to drive down prices on faction stuff so they can regularly see it wasted in mindless gankage rather than being handled with the care it deserves by the mission runners... Like a Ferrari used for driving to work every day in a busy city
Now if they would do all of the above WITHOUT the nerf to L4 difficulty, I would rejoice, but this one issue totally kills the whole idea. --------- There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Kestrel
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Kesh McCall
Caldari Malkalen Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.03.01 11:11:00 -
[153]
Edited by: Kesh McCall on 01/03/2007 11:10:39 "Stop the thief" ( if you dont know the script ) "Enemy's abound" "Pirate Invasion" or " Pirate slaughter" cant remember .. i mean the one where the whole 3rd stage aggros you initially "Any mission that requires me to move around 40.000m3 of trash within reach of 8 jumps for a joke of reward"
I cant say that any other mission is a real challenge, maybe the bonus stages of the extravaganzas.
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Esab
Caldari United Divided
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Posted - 2007.03.01 12:12:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Zrakor Could the more experienced mission runners on this forum please write down a list of 5 of the most difficult level 4 missions they have had to face. It would be much appreciated, thanks.
Had you asked me this 12 months ago when I ventured into LvL 4s I would have been able to give you 10..let alone 5.
You say the 'more experienced mission runners' Well I guess I could be categorised as one of those and not wanting to sound big headed or a complete smart arse I can say now hand on heart that I find all the available missions I do on a regular basis to be quite easy.
WHAT !?! I hear people scream (as I rush for my tin foil hat). Well yes its true I do.
Now before I go any further let me explain a little. I play EvE to fit in around my Real Life. Im fortunate enough to be able to play more than others but obviously not as much as some. I started on LvL 4s as I like a challenge and dont get me wrong I have lost several hundred millions ..probably well over a billion isk in working my way through them. I dare not think the true amounts of isk I have spent or carelessly wasted over the last few months but to me it was all well spent as I learnt a lot along the way.
My first attempt at AE took me from D/T until 4 the following morning...over 15 hrs...think about it... Now I can do it with my feet up and watching TV. How does Mr Smartarse do it I hear them cry....heres how.
I use a Faction ship
I use Faction/Officer Modules
I spent several ( read over half a year ) months on skills that help me.
And mostly ...I have used the time spent to gain experience and work out the best ways to do them.
The thing is also during this time I have also had a very enjoyable period in an 0.0 alliance and used the skills I trained in missions to also benefit me in my PvP chosen ship as well.
So dont go screaming carebear at me either as I have done and will still do both
It has taken me quite a long time to get where I am and its not been without losses...a lot of it I did solo but also for a long time I used to have to call friends for help....same as I helped them when needed. Throughout all of this I consider it all was a team effort as there is not a day goes by where I dont talk with someone about missions and either offer advice or learn something new.
I for one am very keen on higher lvl missions becoming available and also pushing the boundarys a little more for us all....and the reason being?
I have spent time to learn said missions.
I have learnt by my mistakes and consider myself better for it.
I personally love the challenge and am looking forward to the future of missions because I feel I have gone as far as I can with whats available to me.
It gives others a goal to aim for...like LvL 4s did for me when I started out.
So where does that lead this post? To MY opinion of course
Leave the LvL 4s alone period. Keep them as they are in both Empire and Low Sec (yes they are there already you know) Let the newer players work their way up as I did and learn as they go. Experience counts for more than anything....as much in game as in the real world.
Introduce higher level agents of course...the ones who really want to do them will do so and I guess most of them are not even bothering to post in this thread as I very nearly never bothered myself.
Its natural progression and thats one thing that cant be ignored or we all get bored. Just dont make it harder for the ones out there who will enjoy the learning curve as much as I have.
There are tools available in game to counter pretty much anything....Use them and adapt as it sure as hell isnt going to stay as it is.
It would be nice to see a further Dev blog on all of this as as per usual its very vague and causes so much confusion and ranting on here that could be avoided otherwise..
Its months away yet..Just get ready!
I am
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d026
Herrscher der Zeit Jagdgeschwader Fallen Souls
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Posted - 2007.03.01 12:56:00 -
[155]
so you dont want to fly your cnr to < 0.5? heres the solution:
shield boosting dominix:
1 x dominix = 60 mil highs: 6 x large shield tranfer arrays 1-2mil mids: caprechargers 1-2 mil lows: capstuff 1-2 mil rigs: caprigs (if you cant build them yourself 60 mil)
if you build the rigs yourself you have the ueber shieldbooster for arround 65 mil!
with the best named you boost away 450 raw dps (no drones included)! and all for the fraction of the price of a gist booster!
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vibv
Caldari 5th Imperium
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Posted - 2007.03.01 13:45:00 -
[156]
This is a great thread!
Just as a quick intro, I'm still a newbie, been playing for a few months and IMHO none of the lvl 4 missions are hard. I believe Revelations essentially nerfed them by adding ships (Drake) and rigs. I can run all the lvl 4 missions with a properly outfitted Drake & 6M SP.
What CCP needs to do for loc sec missions is make the opponents more realistic. The approach since way back (space invaders / asteroids) has been if you can't make them more intelligent then make it more difficult by adding huge numbers. Unfortunately, this means we equip our ships differently to handle 20 stupid opponents that we would to handle a few smart (PvP) opponents. If the lvl 5 missions had one or a few intelligently equipped CNR opponents that warp jam when they're winning and warp out when they're losing we'd have to equip our ships in a more PvP manner - which would make it more dangerous for pirates that jumped in. Also, if the rats behaved in a more intelligent manner and ganged up on the biggest threat, or anyone warp jamming or other intelligent behavior it would make the missions more challenging for groups (e.g., an Ospry pushing shields couldn't follow everyone in and be assured of not being attacked) and it would be more dangerous for pirates. It would be cool to see a mission where you encountered one CNR that you needed a drop from to move on and if you warped in with overwelming force he tried to warp out immediately - just to return with reinforcements. Or if he started losing he warped out for reinforcements. And if he started losing with the reinforcements he'd try to warp out to get more ... By the way - I don't see the "drone bug" as a bug - I think the bug is that all the rats don't aggro all the time. I'd like to see them aggro on a random timer so you never really know how many are going to be coming. That all being said - I like that I've been able to get to where I am now, where I can actually dream of owning a CNR someday and don't think the difficultly or payoffs of the lvl 4s should be changed. As for moving mission runners to low-sec - last weekend a friend of mine, who was running lvl 3s in low-sec, ran into a Black Rabbit gate camp of about 10 ships. He lost a 100 Mil ship ++, and with returns of 1Mil per mission I'm guessing it'll be a while before running low-sec missions look fun or profitable to him again. The pirates have a major advantage in they decide when they're going to pirate so they can plan a week ahead to get 10 players together and start pirating. To defend against that the mission runners would need to get a large group together every time they wanted to play - it's not going to happen. What CCP needs to do is make it much more dangerous for the low-sec pirates. Perhaps having weaker Concord patrols that have a 10% probability of showing up at an attack. Or adding hacking / virus so if I give someone money and they accept it with proper skills I stand a chancing of cleaning out their corporate and personal accounts. Or if I give them money and they accept there's a chance their ship will get a virus that randomly disables modules or even major systems.
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OneSock
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Posted - 2007.03.01 14:48:00 -
[157]
Simple. Move all the missions with the drone agro bug.
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kill0rbunny
Chimera Intelligence Agency
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Posted - 2007.03.01 14:58:00 -
[158]
Edited by: kill0rbunny on 01/03/2007 14:57:36
Originally by: OneSock Simple. Move all the missions with the drone agro bug.
QFT. Drone Aggro Bug sucks, even on Ships that don't rely on drones.
I would like to use the extra damage of drones on my drake, as it surely has a great tank but lacks a bit of damage on battleships.
I get aggro on my drones from Sanshas that are 110km away, what's the sense in this crap? Maybe one should fix the current missions before implementing new ones.
BTW i don't understand how someone can find ae difficult. I do it afk while spamming the forums in a drake.
Killboard
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Aarin Wrath
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Posted - 2007.03.01 15:54:00 -
[159]
I am a lvl4 newb still (I fly a domi with T1 named fittings, no CNR equiped with 1 bil officer mods here) but here is my take on the hardest ones: (I never accept the following missions because I find them too hard)
1. Worlds Collide 2. Right hand of Zazzamatazz 3. Stop the thief 4. Angel Extravaganza 5. Enemies Abound (due to raw DPS at the first room, and the presence of interceptor scramblers) 6. Pirate Slaughter (Guristas, dont mind the entire mission except the last room where they *all* aggro at once and the resultant missle DPS is insane)
As for blockade: I do not agree with those who say it is too hard. You just have to be carefull not to spawn all waves at once. Once you figure out the officers and what to look for it really is not that bad.
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Level4
Minmatar Red Frog Investments Daikoku Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.01 16:15:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Dezzereth Edited by: Dezzereth on 27/02/2007 18:10:31 Np, Zrakor.
1.) Duo of Death 2.) [insert faction] Spies
Those are the most hardest - all the others are insanely easy ... please make those two lvl 5, or better yet lvl 6 and leave the rest of lvl 4s alone. Kthnxbye.
I agree with Dezz, those two are definitly the hardest ones, i lost several ravens to those two missions :(
Note: Hi Dezz
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Soltueur
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Posted - 2007.03.01 17:26:00 -
[161]
Is it me or is every mission gonne get called and the devs still have to sort it out themselfs?
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Inspiration
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Posted - 2007.03.01 17:57:00 -
[162]
Edited by: Inspiration on 01/03/2007 17:53:57
Originally by: Soltueur Is it me or is every mission gonne get called and the devs still have to sort it out themselfs?
Absolutely....they asked for the undefinable and inheritly subjective......they got just that!
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Stoner Queen
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.03.01 18:19:00 -
[163]
1. The Blockade (CONCORD) 2. Worlds Collide (gallente/sansha) 3. Silence the informant 4. Mordus Headhunters 5. Pirate or Police Invasion can't remember right now
I run missions in 0.0 and fly a maelstrom with artillery (mix of t1 and t2 stuff) and have low sp (<10 mil SP). I autoreject all these missions (and some others). They are a gigantic waste of time, specially the first two. The Blockade is a freaking joke and absolutely infuriating, I can't even break the tank of a single battleship from the first wave before I have to warp out. In Worlds Collide you have to choose between an impossible room or a room that takes 10+ warpouts. Nice.
The other ones are doable but they are way, way too long for the crap rewards they give. Waste of time when you can do a few of the less hard ones in the same time |
Dolly Parton
Amarr 5punkorp Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.01 20:08:00 -
[164]
Edited by: Dolly Parton on 01/03/2007 20:05:35 ^^ OMG i miss my !
Originally by: Tragus Great thread.
except that we'll never see these 5 missions again the way they are now =( *** Any comments made are mine and mine alone! *** |
Chepe Nolon
Core Domination Big Bang Quantum
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Posted - 2007.03.01 22:27:00 -
[165]
What Esab said.
I've seen 20 days old chars in a Drake doing level 4s. And then you're moving those he can't do into low sec? Now, where does my CnR with faction modules fit in? But as this isn't another whining thread, I'll give my .02 isk:
Every mission has three phases:
New (aka "It's too damn hard for a level 4!!!111") Documented (aka "nooo don't nerf it, we need that mission. It's the only one giving us challenge") Plundered (aka "I can do it in 8min30secs without activating the shieldbooster!")
... according to this you might remove those that people always get surprises in, but isn't necessarily the most difficult. Keep that in mind when reading peoples posts.
Chepe Nolon -- My notes about agent missions. |
Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.02 07:52:00 -
[166]
Edited by: Adunh Slavy on 02/03/2007 07:48:44 /me gets tin hat
How come after I report the lvl 4s I reject, those same missions seem to now be the only missions my agents want to offer? -AS |
Xelios
Minmatar Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.03.02 10:42:00 -
[167]
Quote: In Worlds Collide you have to choose between an impossible room or a room that takes 10+ warpouts. Nice.
Have you thought about rigging up some nanos and an AB with an injected tank and just running for the gates? The Worlds Collide I get is vs Angels and Amarr Empire, I just run for the gate on the Angel side, then run for the next gate (targetting the frigs but not shooting anything unless they scramble me), then blow up the small armory and warp out. Takes 10 minutes tops after you get the hang of it. Hardest part is maneuvering so you don't get stuck on the gates, and popping frigs quickly enough if they scramble you.
And don't release drones in the second stage. I don't know how it is in the other versions but in the Angel/Amarr one the entire room will aggro you *some* of the time if you release drones, and once that happens you won't be able to run for the gate anymore. If you don't get it the first time through you have to fight everything.
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Dolly Parton
Amarr 5punkorp Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.02 16:15:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Xelios
Quote: In Worlds Collide you have to choose between an impossible room or a room that takes 10+ warpouts. Nice.
Have you thought about rigging up some nanos and an AB with an injected tank and just running for the gates? The Worlds Collide I get is vs Angels and Amarr Empire, I just run for the gate on the Angel side, then run for the next gate (targetting the frigs but not shooting anything unless they scramble me), then blow up the small armory and warp out. Takes 10 minutes tops after you get the hang of it. Hardest part is maneuvering so you don't get stuck on the gates, and popping frigs quickly enough if they scramble you.
And don't release drones in the second stage. I don't know how it is in the other versions but in the Angel/Amarr one the entire room will aggro you *some* of the time if you release drones, and once that happens you won't be able to run for the gate anymore. If you don't get it the first time through you have to fight everything.
i did that mission last night for first time but it was Angel and Sanasha. They may have remover the amarr one but I am not sure (have never got the amarr one before) honestly it wasn't to bad. well i stupidly released the drones in first stage that sucked since i was set up angel so i had to go refit and get em damage but pwn them all. 2nd stage has 4x 1.2mil BS that were just a little tough but nothing compared to pirate slaughter. in the end i was running T2 - 2 invul 1 em 1 therm only 1 warp out - to get 4th hardner but if i started with the 4 i would have been fine. took a little bit but grossed 26 mil so 90 minutes and first time doing it i was happy.
*** Any comments made are mine and mine alone! *** |
Mawlith
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Posted - 2007.03.02 20:52:00 -
[169]
Guristas or Angel Vengeance Worlds Collide Pirate Slaughter Enemies Abound Midst of Deadspace
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Shaemell Buttleson
Darwin With Attitude
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Posted - 2007.03.03 03:22:00 -
[170]
Every so often I'd pop back into hi-sec empire and run level 4's for a few days as a break from the normal PVP and to recoup some ISK I allways lose with my PVP. So before I say what i'm going to say I want you to know I will be effected as well by the planned changes.
About a year ago or maybe less a thread was started about how fast you can run level 4 missions and what LP's you could expect for them and how much ISK per hour you were all making etc everything included.
PPL complaining or stating their concerns in this thread were in that old thread giving tips on LP farming saying it was where the real money is, giving advice on uber setups to make tanking a doddle, advising to use T2 torps etc because of the speed they dispatched the rats offset the the cost of buying them etc etc etc. Some even said how it was possible for players with characters less than 5 months old to be raking in incredible amounts of and gave advise how to make a character, give skill planning and exactly what to do so they could farm the LP's.
I knew that the Devs would have been watching the forums and I bet they all took notice of that thread and other threads like them and took notes. So to all the PPL here whining about the planned changes who were in those previouse threads you have no-one to blame but yourselves.
So quit moaning and get on with it or leave the game instead of just threatening to do so!
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hellraiser
Aliastra
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Posted - 2007.03.03 09:36:00 -
[171]
World's Collide (Gurista's Side) Pirate Slaughter (The DPS on last stage is nasty) Mordus Headhunters (Full Aggro on second stage)
These are the missions that I do, that I consider the most difficult. I really don't seem to have too much trouble with the others these days. It seems to usually be a matter of the right setup. The bug with the drones that causes full stage aggro really makes some of these missions alot more difficult than anything else. That is, if your a drone user.
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LordDiablo
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Posted - 2007.03.05 08:30:00 -
[172]
I think the the most hard missions are : 1- Enimies abound 5/5 only 2- Angle extravaganza the last room , although i did it alone but it's hard if i wasn't fitted well .
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Kelso Bluebane
Minmatar Un4seen Development
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Posted - 2007.03.05 08:56:00 -
[173]
1. Enemies abound 2. In the midst of deadspace 3. Worlds collide 4. STI 5. Blockade
A few points I consider relevant to this discussion
1. Why has no one considered the effect of level 5/6/7 missions on LP, this will be the biggest single nerf to high sec income. I am pressuming 30,000 lp for a top level 5 mission, 50,000 for a top level 6 and who knows if 7's make it in one day. The consequence of this is the market will be flooded with lp type items thus reducing value.
2. Instead of trying to draw folks into low sec with bigger and better missions. Why hasn't a more PVP 'fit' type of mission been invented. Thus giving the mission runner more confidence.
3. Bring back Faction Bpc module prints only given out by low sec agents.
4. Take away the pirate ships killed in space thing off the map.
5. Make POS more user friendly and less of a hassle and beef up there defences abit. Put an ice belt in every low sec system in eve and sell the trade componants in more npc stations. Also remove npc buy orders for these items. This might encourage more corps to try low sec.
6. Review security hits on players when taking on 'outlaw' players.
7. Do not introduce escalating paths into normal missions, leave that to cosmos.
8. Put better roids in low sec and completely upgrade fringe 0.0 belts.
9. Put so many good quality level 3/4/5/6 agents in low sec that they cannot be all camped, this may mean adding alot more stations.
10. Wether folks like it or not the biggest influence on wether a player is willing to go to low sec is isk and its loss. Something still needs to be done to address the cost of losing a mission fit ship. To joe average losing his pod and say a T2 fitted Raven just isn't worth it. Also only being able to Jumpclone once in 24 hours needs to be looked at.
There are probably more things to tempt a mission runner into low sec, but taking what are considered the top 5 missions away from high sec isnt one of them. If you make it so you need a capitol ship in your gang to do level 5's thats fair enough, If you make the grind to get the ship intolerable thats not.
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Akira2501
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Posted - 2007.03.07 04:37:00 -
[174]
Edited by: Akira2501 on 07/03/2007 04:33:46
Originally by: Zrakor Edited by: Zrakor on 23/02/2007 13:44:38 We want to see mission runners group up and fight as a gang, defend each other, make corporations and even alliances based on this. The bread and butter of mmorgs is group play, and we really want to nudge people into that.
Come on, I have a wife, a job, and a life. I donÆt have the time nor the desire to gang up in low sec. PLEASE accept the fact that not everyone has the same definition of fun.
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Akira2501
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Posted - 2007.03.07 05:10:00 -
[175]
Edited by: Akira2501 on 07/03/2007 05:10:13 One other thing, IÆm new to lvl4s. I skip most the ones listed here as I simply canÆt handle them in my T1 fitted BS.
But I hate the thought of these being taken away. Because games are about goals, if these missions are taken away then even newish, low SP, low ISK players such as myself have no goals, nothing to work for. If anything we need high-sec lvl5s.
I will not go to low-sec. ItÆs as much about avoiding certain personality types as anything else. IÆm not going to live in the ghetto of EVE. And IÆm not going to be interested in ôupgradingö my ship if there are no goals to work for. Thus; nothing to do and no reason to play
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Ghan Tylous
Caldari The Graduates Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.03.07 05:57:00 -
[176]
Once you have enough ISK from running lvl 4s, most of the hard missions mentioned in this thread are doable, if you fit low to mid end faction stuff.
People that say that some of these lvl 4s are hard are jumping into them, they don't train up to use T2 fitting or read up on the available mission guides/scources, so the end result will be they lose a ship.
Missions like Pirate Slaughther, mass/drone/buddy aggro needs to be looked in to. But instead you move the most challenging missions to lvl 5s/low sec. --- It have always fallen to a few to sacrifice for the good of many |
Presidente Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.07 08:13:00 -
[177]
01 Worlds Collide 02 Pirate Slaughter 03 Mordus Headhunters 04 Angel Extravaganza [Bonus Stage is insane] 05 Silent The Informant and not to forget: The Right Hand Of Zazzmatazz
I did them all solo in a Myrmidon so far. How hard those mishs are is a question of skills, experience and a specific setup at the end. You just need knowledge what happens exactly in the pockets. Since Rigs it's getting easier.
Fly strong skilled and well tanked!
Presidente Gallente
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Presidente Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.07 09:02:00 -
[178]
Edited by: Presidente Gallente on 07/03/2007 08:59:02
Originally by: Akira2501 Edited by: Akira2501 on 07/03/2007 04:33:46
Originally by: Zrakor Edited by: Zrakor on 23/02/2007 13:44:38 We want to see mission runners group up and fight as a gang, defend each other, make corporations and even alliances based on this. The bread and butter of mmorgs is group play, and we really want to nudge people into that.
Come on, I have a wife, a job, and a life. I donÆt have the time nor the desire to gang up in low sec. PLEASE accept the fact that not everyone has the same definition of fun.
Here, too. But eg. in High-Sec like Dodixie it's not a big deal to recruit a local gang for a l4 mish in a few minutes. I always had 3 to 8 wingmen on my side before I decided to run also the harder l4's solo.
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Zyrtan Keb'Lektar
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.03.07 09:52:00 -
[179]
1) In the midst of deadspace 1/5 2) Extravaganzas 3) Vengeance 4) Silent the Informant 5) Worlds Collide (if you do it wrong)
I'm using a standard T2 astarte with 250mm Rails T2 and i don't have problems with any lvl 4 while fitting 2-3 Mag Stabs
They are all not THAT hard if you have some sp, some knowledge and a good ship.
-----------
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Halafian
The Graduates
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Posted - 2007.03.07 14:07:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Akira2501
Originally by: Zrakor
We want to see mission runners group up and fight as a gang, defend each other, make corporations and even alliances based on this. The bread and butter of mmorgs is group play, and we really want to nudge people into that.
Come on, I have a wife, a job, and a life. I donÆt have the time nor the desire to gang up in low sec. PLEASE accept the fact that not everyone has the same definition of fun.
Exactly.
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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.03.07 14:56:00 -
[181]
Originally by: Zrakor We are also working at giving players more tools to fight against pirates in low sec. We want to see mission runners group up and fight as a gang, defend each other, make corporations and even alliances based on this. The bread and butter of mmorgs is group play, and we really want to nudge people into that. But we will not remove solo activities, and we will not push everyone into low sec (nudge not push), you will still be able to make a good living in high-sec.
In others MMOs, some players can't abuse the group mechanics to kill their groupmate. If you want to encourage group play, you should plug those holes first. People doesn't always have players they trust, and that are interested in doing missions, within range to group with, and forming a group with someone you don't know is taking a chance to get ganked.
But this "group to be safe" approach is, imho, ultimately doomed to fail.
- Because high-level missions REQUIRE specific pve fittings, putting you at huge disavantadges
- Because pirates know what you got, and whatever you have, they can bring more. And they sure will.
Upping the odds with capital ships and groups will only give them more incentive to come gank you, and losses to pirates will hurt more...
If you want to see mission runners come in low-sec by player interaction only, then there's only one answer: Bounty Hunters. And for bounty hunting to be a viable activity, there's need, among others things, to be harder for pirates to dock. If pirates can dock in the blink of an eye, as soon as something with teeths is heading their way, pirate hunting will be a boring, wortless activity, whatever reward they may get as incentive. ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types. |
Ezra
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.07 23:08:00 -
[182]
Originally by: OneSock Simple. Move all the missions with the drone agro bug.
Please stop calling it the drone agro bug. There is absolutely NOTHING about that bug that is drone specific. The buddy agro bug is triggered when ANY entity other than the mission holder attacks mission rats, whether that is a drone or another player. Yes, the most common "triggering entity" is a combat drone, but the facts are:
Hostile action against rats by a player-controlled ship will have the exact same effect. As a result, this bug strongly discourages group/team play, because it makes missions HARDER if you group with someone. Merely deploying drones will not trigger the bug. The drones must take hostile action against a mission rat to trigger it. It just happens that the first thing combat drones do upon being deployed is usually to take hostile action. Despite some misconceptions that merely deploying drones triggers the bug (which has resulted in some people not using repair drones on friends in missions), deploying them does not. For example, I can guarantee that no one will EVER trigger the "buddy agro" bug by deploying repair drones on a friend.
That said - I still maintain that the hardest missions are those that are affected by this bug (First room of Angel Extrav L4, last of Serp Extrav L4, first room of Worlds Collide Guristas/Serps L4) because they stop you from doing drones and also prevent you from bringing friends to help with the mission. ------------ Ezra Cornell
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Jezick
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.03.08 10:04:00 -
[183]
As said is previous posts all easy if paired or ganged, except 'Enemies Abound'.
If running solo then 'Worlds Collide' can be tough but only if you get the strategy wrong.
I use missions for replenishing isk and paying for kewl mods. If ccp feels the need to kerb my earning/spending of isk then my credit card will go elsewhere.
If they add a new level then "bring it on"
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Gainremi
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Posted - 2007.03.10 16:36:00 -
[184]
Originally by: Ezra
Merely deploying drones will not trigger the bug. The drones must take hostile action against a mission rat to trigger it. It just happens that the first thing combat drones do upon being deployed is usually to take hostile action.
Wrong. Merely deploying the drones will trigger the "bug". This is very evident for example in WC. Pop drones out. Let them be idle for a sec (they have not attacked nor have been commanded to do so), scoop them back as soon as you can and watch the second group aggro you (they first agroed the drones as soon as you release them). WC Angel and Sansha is a bit nasty on the drones as the Sansha npcs occasionally change targetting the drones... and of course the one getting hit will refuse to mwd back to drone bay.
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Kery Nysell
Caldari Nysell Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.03.10 16:55:00 -
[185]
Originally by: Akira2501 Edited by: Akira2501 on 07/03/2007 04:33:46
Originally by: Zrakor Edited by: Zrakor on 23/02/2007 13:44:38 We want to see mission runners group up and fight as a gang, defend each other, make corporations and even alliances based on this. The bread and butter of mmorgs is group play, and we really want to nudge people into that.
Come on, I have a wife, a job, and a life. I donÆt have the time nor the desire to gang up in low sec. PLEASE accept the fact that not everyone has the same definition of fun.
Almost the same for me (I'm still searching for a wife), and I'm in this situation : I have maybe 2 hours of playing time every couple of days, just enough for a mission + loot/salvage ... if I have to spend time, even 10 mins, searching for a group to do a mission, I won't have the time to finish said mission .. kinda pointless, no ?
I would love to be able to play in a group, but my corpmates and ingame (trusted) friends all have real lifes to live, we could maybe get together ingame on a week-end once every month ... not practical.
I think that I won't ever be able to do a level 5 mission, because of real life time constraints, but I would like to continue my "casual missionning" ...
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Draconius Krynar
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2007.03.11 08:22:00 -
[186]
Silence the Informant - annoying in the sense that you have mass-scrambling enemies which do heavy damage on all damage types.
Stop the Thief - Meh, silly surprise..
That stupid mission where you have to haul 40,000 containers.. meh
That equally stupid mission with the rubbish..
That immensely stupid mission with the miners..
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Spuck
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Posted - 2007.03.11 09:39:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Zrakor Could the more experienced mission runners on this forum please write down a list of 5 of the most difficult level 4 missions they have had to face. It would be much appreciated, thanks.
Angel Extra Bonus Stage is the only interesting part atm, please unlock missions up to lvl 7 for real fun ;)
thx forward
best regards
Spuck
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Dacus Alto
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.03.12 10:28:00 -
[188]
No level 4 missions are difficult from one point onwards and that point is based on ones skills and wallet (and please remember that getting to that point is a goal in itself for some of us). By saying this, my post might not be useful from ZarkorÆs point of view, but this is my opinion.
Originally by: Akira2501 Edited by: Akira2501 on 07/03/2007 04:33:46
Originally by: Zrakor Edited by: Zrakor on 23/02/2007 13:44:38 We want to see mission runners group up and fight as a gang, defend each other, make corporations and even alliances based on this. The bread and butter of mmorgs is group play, and we really want to nudge people into that.
Come on, I have a wife, a job, and a life. I donÆt have the time nor the desire to gang up in low sec. PLEASE accept the fact that not everyone has the same definition of fun.
IÆm a ôlonely wolfö within EvE not by choice, but by necessity. Even if I can be logged on for 3-4 hours every other day, I have enough respect for my corp mates not to let them down when I have to suddenly go AFK when my kids are crying or I have to answer a support call...and I assume IÆm not the only one in this boat.
IÆve read the dev blogs and comments and itÆs my feeling that there are good ideas in there. I donÆt know if IÆm right or even if it matters, but here are some points I think should be considered for missions (low-sec, high-sec or no-sec). Some of this might have been said already, but anyhow...
- As much as it would be fun to run missions (or any other profession for that matter) as a group, it might not be an option for some (most of the time anyhow).
- Some missions require certain items to be obtained and brought back to the agent. That, in its own, represents a problem if the mission is ôinterruptedö in some way (when no items are required, I don't think I mind if others will kill the rats for me)... - The ôcompatibilityö between PvP and PvE setups (and I doubt is anything to do in this respect) and the poor AI of mission rats puts the mission runner in a very ôunpleasantö position. This can only add to oneÆs frustration.
- I think it will be hard to have a correlation between the mission rewards and the high cost of a PvE setup (without breaking other things). Sure, one can try to use disposable T1 setups in low-sec missions, but...will that be ôfunö? I somehow doubt...
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Lilan Kahn
Amarr The Littlest Hobos
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Posted - 2007.03.12 10:39:00 -
[189]
gang up gang up gang up gang up hire mercs make frinds
eve = mmo ffs
whant solo play go play freelancer
Originally by: Eris Discordia
We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
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Dacus Alto
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.03.12 15:45:00 -
[190]
Let’s assume for the moment that you’re right and we don’t belong here and we should all go and play Freelancer.
But, before that, can you tell me which aspects of EvE do require a gang at the moment? As far as I could understand those would be the PvP fleet activities (pirating included but not required) and complex running (the high end ones).
What about the rest...Mining? It’s beneficial, but not required... Production? Not really… Trading? Nope... Mini-professions? Maybe (here and there; would be nice to be able to share your scanning speed and results)… Ratting? It could go faster, but again, not required… What about Missions? INHO, no. Not the way the missions are designed right now and not unless you bite more than you can chew or you don’t pay attention to your game…
I’m sure CPP has some ideas on how they intend to “nudge” us into group missions and tbh I’m quite curious on how they intend do it; it might be good, it might be bad for the game. We’ll hopefully live to see.
But, again…I might be wrong and you might be right. Better yet, let’s hope CPP will remove all solo activities from EvE (and we all go and play Freelancer) so you can truly enjoy your mmo game…
No offence intended.
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Roy Gordon
Caldari The Star Wolves
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Posted - 2007.03.12 17:11:00 -
[191]
The amount of times I've asked if any players would like to help me out with missions and never having anyone take up the offer is numerous. Lets be totally honest about this, hardly anyone out there is willing to assist mission runners as they dont see much profit from doing so. If you remove the option of obtaining bounty payments then there is even less chance of getting players to assist people in missions. That which does not kill us makes us stronger. The Universe is ruled by three basic principles- Matter, Energy and Enlightened Self-Interest! |
Lilan Kahn
Amarr The Littlest Hobos
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Posted - 2007.03.12 23:16:00 -
[192]
What about the rest...Mining? ItÆs beneficial, but not required... Production? Not reallyà Trading? Nope... Mini-professions? Maybe (here and there; would be nice to be able to share your scanning speed and results)à Ratting? It could go faster, but again, not requiredà What about Missions? INHO, no. Not the way the missions are designed right now and not unless you bite more than you can chew or you donÆt pay attention to your gameà
Erm all those things you listed requires some form of social interaktion with other players and affect others game play what exactly do your mission do?
Abosolutely **** all if you in high sec.
So cheer up and start playing with your fellow evians instead of being a xenofobic cave man. you whant the best missions? work for it risk vs reward.
Originally by: Eris Discordia
We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
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6Bagheera9
Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.13 04:15:00 -
[193]
-The Blockage (vs. Concord): 5 waves of seriously tough NPCs, I don't attempt it solo. The EM missiles hit so fast that even an armor tank will have trouble. -Worlds Collide (Sansha&Gallente): I almost never accept it. The warp-in point for the gallente second stage is the tactical equivalent of dropping your pants and bending over. I'm too scared to try the Sansha second stage... -Either of the Mordus Missions: Lots of tough NPCs, but you warp-in with some breathing room and they don't aggro off the bat. Challanging but not a headache.
That's the top three, the others really don't give me much trouble. And fyi, the rogue drones missions are still a joke. I can do any lvl 4 rogue drones mission in a tier 1 BC.
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HAL 9000
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Posted - 2007.03.13 06:24:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Akira2501 Edited by: Akira2501 on 07/03/2007 05:10:13 But I hate the thought of these being taken away. Because games are about goals, if these missions are taken away then even newish, low SP, low ISK players such as myself have no goals, nothing to work for. If anything we need high-sec lvl5s.
I will not go to low-sec. ItÆs as much about avoiding certain personality types as anything else. IÆm not going to live in the ghetto of EVE. And IÆm not going to be interested in ôupgradingö my ship if there are no goals to work for. Thus; nothing to do and no reason to play
I couldn't have said it better myself.
As for the argument that MMOs are about grouping: not for everyone they're not. I enjoy chatting with my friends all night in EVE. But I play MMOs as much for the massive worlds they offer as the social interaction. I have little kids, and I have to go AFK a lot. You can't do that in a gang.
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Krunk Burkel
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Posted - 2007.03.13 06:58:00 -
[195]
Here's my list.
1. Fix the bugs. 2. Get rid of the 90km gate hikes. 3. Get rid of the blobs. 4. Get rid of most of the lag inducing junk and clouds. 5. Add many new missions at all levels and in all securities.
No it's not the list you asked for, but it is the list you need.
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Thorozar
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Posted - 2007.03.13 18:03:00 -
[196]
I'm really getting sick of the DEVs trying to make people play the game the way they want us to play. A great deal of the player base has a real life and a few hours to play. As has been said many times on this tread, you dont have time to get a gang together to do a mission, watch local, etc. With all the changes in the last year to "nudge" players into low-sec, how many actually have? Mission hubs like Dodixie, Aunia, Auvergne, etc are packed with 100-250 players constantly. There are a lot of players who play for PvE, chatting with friends, whatever and dont want to deal with griefing, PvP, alliance politics, etc.
If you further nerf level 4 missions to the point that PvE players cannot make any isk, and as we know that low-sec and 0.0 have higher reweards but have not moved by now, many players will leave.
If the DEVs have to have a full PvP game, as they always say EVE is basically only PvP, just take away all security status, or just make war decs cost nothing and you can have as many as possible, that way everyone can be a privateer alliance ganker and attack people with do desire to PvP.
As for me, my 2 accounts will be closed and I will move on to other MMOs if the reasons I play are removed. And no, you cannot have my stuff, I will jettison it into space :p
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Darth Matt
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Posted - 2007.03.13 19:33:00 -
[197]
It is basically as I have said before, and will say again-
I have witnessed numerous people closing accounts already based on actions by cheating devs, or by the new goal of changing the missions.
1. I will wait and see what happens, and hope that the missions increase in fun and profitability with the new system. (im an optimist)
2. I enjoy flying missions with friends, and to tell the truth, a t2 fitted raven who grabs agro, and a pal in a basilisk = mission almost to easy to believe.(or even an osprey or auguror)
3. moving the harder missions to low sec = DISNEY move. I call it that based on disney's lack of abilty to be creative, so they just keep remaking older movies in straight to video releases to churn money while having no new content. Pay me in ISK and I will write cool and exciting missions...not just move some away because you lack the intellect to write new ones. that is sad.
4. in so many cases, almost immeasurable, i enjoy this game, and in so many cases nigh immpossible to imagine- CCP does not care about its customer base. they screw over there customers so often that if it werent for the game having a good original concept and ability to move multiple paths- this game would be bankrupt.
fundamentally, here is my advice to you mr DEV man. Dont move missions that exist into low sec. Come up with new missions, break out the notepad and write some up. have fun, be creative, and do something new, and stop screwing with people. want some ideas for missions, sit back and grab a pen and give me a call- i'll give ya one hundred ideas.
its fundamentally math- i can help ya there..
moving missions seems like such a lazy way to go about such a major "improvement to the game". Level 4 missioners should be able to make as much as ratters in Deklein making 50-60 millon in bounties in a night (unless a dread gurrista or officer spawns in-then whoa)[devs screwed with the respawning WC- but allow farmers in 0.0 to make billions a day..theres a fair balance for ya]
listen and learn..its a good human quality
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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.03.13 21:09:00 -
[198]
Originally by: Lilan Kahn What about the rest...Mining? ItÆs beneficial, but not required... Production? Not reallyà Trading? Nope... Mini-professions? Maybe (here and there; would be nice to be able to share your scanning speed and results)à Ratting? It could go faster, but again, not requiredà What about Missions? INHO, no. Not the way the missions are designed right now and not unless you bite more than you can chew or you donÆt pay attention to your gameà
Erm all those things you listed requires some form of social interaktion with other players and affect others game play what exactly do your mission do?
Abosolutely **** all if you in high sec.
The only social interaction required when mining is market pvp, when you sell your minerals. But what do you think mission runners do with the minerals from the loot they reprocessed? With the implants they got from agent offers? Your argument doesn't hold water...
------------------------------------------ A big nuke may be nice in a strategy game, but something like this in a game where every unit is a player, and each death costly, is insane. |
Akuma Gouki
Amarr Orion Ore International Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.03.14 05:25:00 -
[199]
I'm not really an avid mission runner, but I have done my fair share of level 4s in the past, and I just have to say..
Holy freakin' crap everything is difficult for Amarr except for Sansha/Bloodraider.. and occasionally drones (though last time I did one they all showed up as frigates on the overview and confused the crap out of me).
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Plasticine Perfection
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Posted - 2007.03.14 11:12:00 -
[200]
I have to be honest, I find very few of them difficult any more. Me and a fried run them as a duo, me in a Nighthawk, him in a Dominix remote-repping me with drones and hoovering loot.
I agro everything, he warps in and reps.
We still haven't managed Enemies Abound 5 of 5 although we've not tried it for a couple of months.
A Case of Kidnapping (storyline mission) stretches us a bit. Worlds Collide full agro requires us to stay alert.
Anything with that kind of DPS is difficult, but doable. Note I am not referring to soloing missions here, we always do them in a duo, sure the money's slower but it's a lot safer and more fun :)
However moving the upcoming lvl 5's into low/no sec will mean we stop doing missions, simple as. We're not going to add mission gankers to our risks, that's not how we play.
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Dacus Alto
Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.03.14 11:24:00 -
[201]
Edited by: Dacus Alto on 14/03/2007 11:22:19 I do not know the real reason behind the OP and might not be right to speculate about it. But just in case the reason is to move those ômost difficult level 4 missionsö somewhere else from high-sec, the following might be another reason not to.
First, let me say again that there are no ôdifficult level 4 missionsö per se. When one starts its level 4 runs, all missions are difficultàafter a while (when the skills go up and wallet fills in) only a handful missions will give him a pauseàfinally he is left with only a few that will give some sort of challenge.
At that point he might start looking at other thingsàa bit of cosmos, a bit of exploration, maybe take on other ôpart-timeö activities, R&D, production or a bit of pirating or whatever he finds interesting. But, the mission running (level 4s) will always remain there as a source of either a bit of ôknown funö or as an always accessible source of income to replenish an empty wallet. Taking that away might take the fun out of the game for some.
Sure enough, we should wait and see if and how this change will be implemented. It is quite possible that the final implementation will actually enhance the game experience and fun. It would be nice is if the game designers can tell us more about their ideas - the whys and hows... (I know this is wishful thinking)
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kill0rbunny
Chimera Intelligence Agency
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Posted - 2007.03.14 13:25:00 -
[202]
Edited by: kill0rbunny on 14/03/2007 13:21:28
Originally by: Akira2501 Edited by: Akira2501 on 07/03/2007 04:33:46
Originally by: Zrakor Edited by: Zrakor on 23/02/2007 13:44:38 We want to see mission runners group up and fight as a gang, defend each other, make corporations and even alliances based on this. The bread and butter of mmorgs is group play, and we really want to nudge people into that.
Come on, I have a wife, a job, and a life. I donÆt have the time nor the desire to gang up in low sec. PLEASE accept the fact that not everyone has the same definition of fun.
Then don't go there. Simple is it?
I am sick of those pimped up navy raven missionrunners that tell people how they have fun, when in the same sentence they complain they want more missions, because they are boring. It is totally ridiculous. The new missions are freaking corp missions and that is great, there is no interaction possible in missions like Worlds Collide now at all, because they are much harder now with a gang than alone.
There's much too few things for small groups to do now, that's why they want to boost small gangs, not solo mission *****s, that have too many benefits anyway.
Killboard
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Iudex
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.03.14 14:47:00 -
[203]
I just wanted to write down 5 hard missions, but no, to be honest there are no hard lvl 4 missions . Not a singel lvl 4 missions is hard, no bonusstages, nothing (unless you use wrong equipment, but then lvl 3 missions can be hard aswell, when you trying to do them in a kestrel for example). Don't take aways the good lvl 4s from empire, they are all very easy, make harder missions for lvl 5 instead please.
L...i...b...e...r...a...t...e.........C...a...l...d...a...r...i........P...r...i...m...e.!
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Hephaesteus
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.14 17:44:00 -
[204]
A veteran player will rip though any mission without much difficulty, but a younger char will have real trouble with the same mission. Hard missions, easy missions depends on your perspective. -----------------------------------------------
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APEXrevived
Imperium Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2007.03.15 00:03:00 -
[205]
Seriously. I agree with everyone who has said to leave LVL 4s alone. Taking away one of the few high-sec ways to make steady income is plain stupid and the player population will not be happy. I am taking a bit of a break from 0.0 and I'd very much like to make steady money in high-sec and NOT HAVE TO PVP! The rewards for running missions in low-sec are already tempting enough for people that the risk is worth the reward. Don't screw over the people who take less LP and less payouts in return for relative safety! I'm all for higher lvl missions being in low-sec, but don't change the current lvl 4s.
Warning: Never name your char by anything starting with an A... sig stolen from Apolyon I. I support this statement. |
Ezra
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.17 03:53:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Lilan Kahn gang up gang up gang up gang up
You clearly know nothing about mission mechanics and bugs.
Current game mechanics actively discourage ganging in a number of missions. See my previous post about the "buddy agro" bug - A number of missions actually become significantly HARDER if done with a gang. ------------ Ezra Cornell
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Andrue
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.03.17 11:59:00 -
[207]
Originally by: Plasticine Perfection However moving the upcoming lvl 5's into low/no sec will mean we stop doing missions, simple as. We're not going to add mission gankers to our risks, that's not how we play.
I dislike being rude but that is the most idiotic thing I've read recently. Why should the fact that new content is located somewhere you don't want to go stop you using the content you are currently happy with?
Did you quit when POSes were released? Did you quit when Titans were released? Why did you continue playing when you realised you can't mine Arkonite and Bistot?
FFs, some you whiners really need to calm down and stop jumping off the deep end. CCP are well aware how many of us play the game and they are not going to significantly nerf existing content. L5 missions are new content that doesn't already exist. When they are released you have a choice to run them if you want or continue with L4. They've said there will be new L4 missions so just WTF is your problem?
Wait until they are released and the rewards become obvious. Maybe if you know you can earn hundred mil per mission (my guess) you'll grow a pair. I know I will for that kind of money. -- (Battle hardened industrialist)
[Brackley, UK]
Please don't read this signature. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.03.17 12:37:00 -
[208]
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 17/03/2007 12:35:58 Andrue, before insulting other people whay don't you follow your own advice and calm down?
I will wait to see what appens, but putting some pressure on the Dev so they evalutate accuratly the impact of the changes is useful.
The things we don't like: take away the 5 hardest level 4 missions (and that it is not adding new contents); make the new missions like a bit souped up level 3, not even like middle difficulty level 4 (and that is in the dev blog); reducing the isk rewards without even an hint on revising the loot table; changing the LP system in a store like system (good) and a isk sink (not clear but it seem very bad, pay LP and plenty of isk for a reduced return?).
Add to the above the notorius slowness of CCp in developing new missions; look the time between the June 2006 change in mission, with a reduction of the available mission and a promise of a increase in the total number, and the actual introduction of new missions in November with Kali. And non combat missions are still in a mess.
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Kery Nysell
Caldari Nysell Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.03.17 16:30:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Andrue
Originally by: Plasticine Perfection However moving the upcoming lvl 5's into low/no sec will mean we stop doing missions, simple as. We're not going to add mission gankers to our risks, that's not how we play.
I dislike being rude but that is the most idiotic thing I've read recently. Why should the fact that new content is located somewhere you don't want to go stop you using the content you are currently happy with?
Did you quit when POSes were released? Did you quit when Titans were released? Why did you continue playing when you realised you can't mine Arkonite and Bistot?
FFs, some you whiners really need to calm down and stop jumping off the deep end. CCP are well aware how many of us play the game and they are not going to significantly nerf existing content. L5 missions are new content that doesn't already exist. When they are released you have a choice to run them if you want or continue with L4. They've said there will be new L4 missions so just WTF is your problem?
Wait until they are released and the rewards become obvious. Maybe if you know you can earn hundred mil per mission (my guess) you'll grow a pair. I know I will for that kind of money.
It's not a question of having a pair or not ... dumbing down the current lvl 4 missions, and moving the hardest (the only ones actually challenging) in low sec is a very detrimental thing for the casual players, the "carebears" and all those who don't have the time/motivation to go down in gank-land ...
As someone above said, keeping the current lvl 4 missions and doing a whole new set of missions for the lvls 5-6-7 in low sec is a much better idea ...
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inSpirAcy
The Solopwnmobiles
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Posted - 2007.03.18 00:34:00 -
[210]
Edited by: inSpirAcy on 18/03/2007 00:33:46
Darnit, I finally bring my faction pimped Nightmare together after 1.5 years of play and you want to nerf it's only purpose?
I like the idea of L5s. If you pack them into low sec the highest end mission runners will find a way to do them. But some of us like to relax a little after a hard day's work, and for all the reasons described in this thread current L4s provide that just fine. No looking over my shoulder for Johnny '80 hours/week' Yarr, just a nice head-on challenge with controllable risks.
And with the cash I pull together, I can hop into my modestly pimped PvP ship and go do the fighting you guys like to see so much. High sec missions are a social event in themselves (as anyone who remembers me from Kaunokka will no doubt tell you!). Low sec missions are fast earners with stressful risks. Both styles of play offer different rewards for different people, it's nothing to do with the ISK or difficulty.
Edit: Oh, and another vote for fixing the bugs. I've had to stop helping people in high sec with their missions because the gang system has so many unsafe intricacies that it's just not worth the hassle. And no, I don't want to spend my entire life studying every little gotcha in the rules to know what's safe and what isn't.
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Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Horizon Corp.
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Posted - 2007.03.18 03:42:00 -
[211]
Originally by: Andrue Why should the fact that new content is located somewhere you don't want to go stop you using the content you are currently happy with?
Did you quit when POSes were released? Did you quit when Titans were released? Why did you continue playing when you realised you can't mine Arkonite and Bistot?
Nitpicking I know, but the plans to move the hardest L4's to lowsec doesn't really count as "new content". The new content there is for piewats, who get new PvE'ers to gank. New content would mean leaving all L4's as they are and introducing new ones, to lowsec or wherever.
Regardless, the overwhelming response has been negative. L5's in lowsec? Fine with me (and probably most others too). They can put their "new content" wherever they want. And when L5 missions get totally ignored by people and corps then I'm sure they'll reevaluate. Why do L5's with your corp if you can do L6 or L7? Why try an L5 solo if along with an increased difficulty you also have to deal with piewats? It's simply going to drawl a line between empire runners and lowsec runners. Lowsec mission running groups will not bother with L5's because L6 and L7 will be much more profitable for the same risk. __________ The opinion(s) expressed above are mine alone and are not necessarily endorsed or supported by my Corporation. |
SILENT CARATICUS
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Posted - 2007.03.19 11:20:00 -
[212]
Originally by: Dezzereth Edited by: Dezzereth on 27/02/2007 18:10:31 Np, Zrakor.
1.) Duo of Death 2.) [insert faction] Spies
Those are the most hardest - all the others are insanely easy ... please make those two lvl 5, or better yet lvl 6 and leave the rest of lvl 4s alone. Kthnxbye.
1.Duo of Death = must be one of the easiest missions 2. [insert faction] Spies = also easy
hardest mission imo are= Worlds collide(guristas side)/enemys abound 5 of 5 < but both still possible solo.
other than that alll lvl 4's quite managable :)
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Frederick Sheh
Caldari Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative
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Posted - 2007.03.19 13:09:00 -
[213]
It's kinda hard for me to say what missions are the hardest, because I'm running L4 Caldari Navy Missions, and its nearly impossible to tell if the missions would be easier in a system that didn't also have 200 people in it, 100 of which were running missions as huge as I am, the other 100 seem to be hanging in space outside of Motsu station waiting for someone to start something.
That said:
Pirate Slaughter - dear god not another 90km realspace crawl Vengence - you need to somehow get a Raven to go 400m/s in order to catch the boss at the end so you can finish the damn thing Worlds Collide - I have't done L4 but I can imagine Enemies Abound - long, hard, oh and it tanks your standing elsewhere in space
Ensign Frederick Sheh (Agent Relations) - Military Division - Hadean Drive Yards
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Doxs Roxs
White Wolves Defence league The OSS
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Posted - 2007.03.19 14:32:00 -
[214]
Ill try and write this down as good as I can, but to be frank I think its a bit unclear what you are looking for. There are alot of missions that are very long but not hard as such. Ill try and include the missions where I feel there is a high chance of getting killed.
The top difficoult mission would have to be Enemies abound 1/5. The DPS you face there when getting full aggro and the amount of hard tackler frigs is what makes it hard. All but the most pimped faction tanks have a hard time tanking the damage.
Second place must be The Blockade vs DED. Their uniform resists make them hard to kill and all the while you have to tank alot of damage.
Third must be Worlds Collide, especially against Sanchas. If you get full aggro on the second stage you will have to tank a good deal of dps, Sanchas is slightly harder but even the Guristas one can be tough for most ships to deal with without having to warp out.
Mordous Headhunters can in some circumstances be fairly hard on the last stage, the damage you have to tank is staggering on paper but in most cases its easy to deal with if you move away from the blob.
5:th would have to be Angel Extravaganza due to the fairly hard bonus stage. If you disregard the bonus stage its not a hard mission, its just a long grind with only the first stage doing decent damage against you with full aggro.
Regards
/Doxs
After 9 months of being a "!" face, I now discover that Im butt ugly instead... |
Trisae
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Posted - 2007.03.20 00:58:00 -
[215]
Well I recently did a lvl4 Enemies Abound mission for the first time, it didn't go well.
1.Jumped in. 2.Aggroed 1st group while moving away from the rest. 3.Destroyed all BS/BC/cruiser, tank held up ok. Webbed by 5 frigs. 4.Thought "hmm I'm 40km from these other groups I should be fine to launch my drones". 5.Launched drones, attacked webbing frigs. 6.Look at my shield "hmm thats going down fast". 7.Realise everything has aggroed and shield has gone from 90% to 50% in about 2s. 8.Think "oh ****" and click warp to station. 9.Wonder why I'm taking so long to align as my ship goes into armor (damn webbers!). 10.Thinking "I'm aligned! I'm aligned! Warp! Warp!" but ship won't warp. 11.Ship hits warp and I think "Yes!" - see bright light - see pod. 12.
And for that reason I'd suggest the 5 hardest missions to be: Enemies Abound part1 Enemies Abound part2 Enemies Abound part3 Enemies Abound part4 Enemies Abound part5
Yeah yeah..I should have been aligned before I launched the drones but whatever I won't miss that mission if it's removed.
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Galea Wildfang
Inebriated Consortium Enterprises Inc.
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Posted - 2007.03.20 13:12:00 -
[216]
Enemy Abound Enemy Abound (yeah, doubled cause it's difficult in more than one way) I don't know if they still exist, but those missions like 'various deliveries' and 'elephantine haul' were 'teh pain'.
I personally turn down any mission that involves a faction hit for shooting NPC's. I derail my standing with a few factions already fast enough and don't need to increase the speed.
As I hope you're reading this. My take would be to have a couple level 5 agents in high sec. That way the multi-billion-CNR pilots can have their challenge (I doubt their payout/hour would be better than current level 4's, but it might provide a challenge). As others stated, almost noone is going to risk his uber-pimped boat in lowsec. A few people will try them in groups, but I don't think you'll populate lowsec much with it.
Differently might be level 6 and 7's if you can use capital ships ind groups. If the reward is worth it, people might actually go there and do them. You need to modify your coding though, so that everybody flying with you gets a part of the standing increase to finish it.
Flamming leads to anger, anger leads to pain, pain leads to suffering, and suffering leads to teh Dark Side !
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Terrance O'Conner
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Posted - 2007.03.20 15:49:00 -
[217]
The idea of makling the hardest lvl4 missions lvl 5s instead is just plain stupid. All lvl4 missions are kinda easy, just have to think and find the right setup (which can be found through the forum). Secondly, by removing the top lvl4 missions to lvl5, and essentially low-sec, you'll remove the only reason PvE players - carebears - whatever you call them, to actually do some small scale gang piloting.
What you ought to do in my oppinion is: 1. Leave current lvl4 missions as they are, slight changes inline with the need4speed initiative are more than welcome (this would in turn also make all lvl4 missions relatively easy to cope with). 2. Let lvl5 missions be available in safe space as well, - this will bring gang-warfare to the PvE pilots as well (hey another aspect to carebears, is that allowed in a mmorpg? Well, wakeup call, mmorpg is more than pvp, many like the social part of flying together not neccessarily blobing unfortunate pilots in low/no-sec. 3. lvl6 and 7 should be restricted to low-sec as the fleet-with-cap-ships missiontypes.
But to really answer your question: 1 - Enemies abound (wierd aggroes, faction ships and stupid faction standing hit). 2 - Stop the Thief (Due to too damn much crap in the mission-area causing everything to run slow as hell) 3 - Make your pick, - rest is a walk in the park (though some are a pain, due to stupid travel-distances between gates)
NB: As for making lvl4 missions easier because someone think they're too hard is just plain stupidity, if you cant fly lvl4 solo, bring a gang, or stick to lvl3.
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Neener
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Posted - 2007.03.20 16:45:00 -
[218]
Edited by: Neener on 20/03/2007 16:42:24
Originally by: kill0rbunny 1. Pirate Slaughter Stage 3 2. Enemys Abound 1-5 3. Worlds Collide 4. Angel Extra Bonusstage 5. Silence the Informant
Just According to Damage incoming.
Damage incoming doesnt mean squat in missions. More important is how easy that damage is to tank.
meaning that if theres 2 damage types, its really easy to tank. If theres all 4 damage types, your tank drops really quickly, even if those rats do bit less pure dps.
Thats why only missions i find hard with basic T2 fitted raven is those where i have to tank all 4 damage types extended amounts of time (right hand of zazzablahblah) and those where i need to tank heavy EM damage (slave traders, part 2).
Everything else is piece of cake (havent tried angel bonus stage though).
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Wackofuddy3
Caldari The PoeLice
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Posted - 2007.03.20 19:35:00 -
[219]
Damsel in Distress (seriously what the ****) angel extrav (also too long) Worlds Collide Silence the informant DAMSEL IN ******* DISTRESS (no really i am the one in disstress now, jesus christ)
_______________________________________________________________
Originally by: Yazoul Samaiel messing around with the boys > gate camping ! = Eve fact .
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Silthis Marna
Monkey Pickles
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Posted - 2007.03.21 11:09:00 -
[220]
Originally by: Wackofuddy3 Damsel in Distress (seriously what the ****) DAMSEL IN ******* DISTRESS (no really i am the one in disstress now, jesus christ)
/signed.
Just did it with my two accounts, flying an Abaddon and a Raven at the same time. Fine, first time I've ever done it, did some silly things and almost lost the ships. All part of being a mission humpin' empire lovin' carebear.
But really, the time it takes to destroy that god damn pleasure garden. I think I've destroyed battlestations in less time. Took my two ships (ammo types didn't hugely matter in the Raven) maybe 30 solid minutes of blasting 7 megabeams and 6 cruise into it to destroy it. Neat trick with the new spawns as you get the target down, I'm cool with that, but 30 plus minutes for a single target? And the bounties and rewards just sucked hard.
I have two questions.
1) When am I going to be able to bring a dread into this mission to kill that thing?
2) When is the BPO for that pleasure garden going to be seeded on the market? I wouldn't mind one as a POS component. Maybe it could run the shields too...
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.03.21 15:19:00 -
[221]
Originally by: Majin82 Leave the level 4's alone! The hard ones are the only fun ones.
Just fill level 5's with Dreads
VERY VERY VERY MUCH SIGNED... what CCP, you ran out of ideas for mission Scenarios for level 5's? Come one, just make up 5 new easier lvl 5 missions, and leave the lvl 4 alone, some people do missions when they need money, not when they need to be bored to death with cr4p shoot and loot..
One of those loyal montly payment guys...
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.03.21 15:22:00 -
[222]
Originally by: Elsinaril Blockade (vs DED) Worlds Collide (vs Sansha + Gallente) Mordus Headhunters Vengeance (vs Mordus) Angel Extravaganza (bonus level)
Worlds Collide is a perfectly good missions, the fact that you can't do it blindfolded doesn't mean you can't peak with one eye to complete it..
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Black Scorpio
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Posted - 2007.03.21 15:26:00 -
[223]
Edited by: Black Scorpio on 21/03/2007 15:30:15 Edited by: Black Scorpio on 21/03/2007 15:28:54
Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 22/02/2007 20:55:58 If those missions are gunna become lvl5s, I would say:
Angel Extravaganza Pirate Invasion Pirate Slaughter Stop the Thief Silence the Informant
Oh give me a break.. what are you trying to run them in a Caracal???
Pirate invasion, Pirate Slaughter Stop the thief and Silence the informant are EASY !!!!!
The only one that a solo guy might have a problem with is lvl 5 on Enemies Abound.. but it can be done too with lots of hoop jumping..
DON'T NERF MISSIONS !!! MAKE NEW MATERIAL DON'T DESTROY EXISTING ONE !!!!
Hope i put my idea across...
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kill0rbunny
Chimera Chaos Squadron Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.21 17:34:00 -
[224]
Edited by: kill0rbunny on 21/03/2007 17:30:28
Originally by: SILENT CARATICUS
Originally by: Dezzereth Edited by: Dezzereth on 27/02/2007 18:10:31 Np, Zrakor.
1.) Duo of Death 2.) [insert faction] Spies
Those are the most hardest - all the others are insanely easy ... please make those two lvl 5, or better yet lvl 6 and leave the rest of lvl 4s alone. Kthnxbye.
1.Duo of Death = must be one of the easiest missions 2. [insert faction] Spies = also easy
hardest mission imo are= Worlds collide(guristas side)/enemys abound 5 of 5 < but both still possible solo.
other than that alll lvl 4's quite managable :)
See how solo mission running dumbs people down? This poor fella didn¦t even notice the irony.
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Jaeuhl
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Posted - 2007.03.21 17:39:00 -
[225]
Angel Extravaganza (bonus stage) - Fun for the entire family. Even for the seasoned veteran, it's just nice to have a spotter to take down the pesky frigates and sentries...or a CS, HAC, and faction BS.
Enemies Abound (4 of 5) - It's not so much the mission but the lag you can get when you warp in from the pretty starry blue room into the insta/aggro/web/scram room. It's possible (and has happened) to be already into hull before you realize you're on fire.
Pirate Slaughter (3rd pocket) - Pretty standard for a shield tanker, but can be a little hard on the armor tanker.
Stop the Thief - Multiple spawns at close range is a nasty surprise.
Worlds Collide (Gurista pocket) - Yeah.
Basically these are the missions/instances I will avoid or make sure I bring competent help. Granted being faction/officer fitted makes some of these missions a walk in the park but for those who are not built like Tonka that's my top 5. (in no particular order)
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Dezzereth
Two Swords Guild
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Posted - 2007.03.21 18:36:00 -
[226]
Edited by: Dezzereth on 21/03/2007 18:34:09
Originally by: SILENT CARATICUS
Originally by: Dezzereth Edited by: Dezzereth on 27/02/2007 18:10:31 Np, Zrakor.
1.) Duo of Death 2.) [insert faction] Spies
Those are the most hardest - all the others are insanely easy ... please make those two lvl 5, or better yet lvl 6 and leave the rest of lvl 4s alone. Kthnxbye.
1.Duo of Death = must be one of the easiest missions 2. [insert faction] Spies = also easy
hardest mission imo are= Worlds collide(guristas side)/enemys abound 5 of 5 < but both still possible solo.
other than that alll lvl 4's quite managable :)
Grats for missing my point.
EDIT: Thnx kill0rbunny, you saved my day
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Leandro Salazar
Bravehearts Xelas Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.21 18:54:00 -
[227]
Originally by: Black Scorpio Edited by: Black Scorpio on 21/03/2007 15:30:15 Edited by: Black Scorpio on 21/03/2007 15:28:54
Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 22/02/2007 20:55:58 If those missions are gunna become lvl5s, I would say:
Angel Extravaganza Pirate Invasion Pirate Slaughter Stop the Thief Silence the Informant
Oh give me a break.. what are you trying to run them in a Caracal???
Pirate invasion, Pirate Slaughter Stop the thief and Silence the informant are EASY !!!!!
The only one that a solo guy might have a problem with is lvl 5 on Enemies Abound.. but it can be done too with lots of hoop jumping..
DON'T NERF MISSIONS !!! MAKE NEW MATERIAL DON'T DESTROY EXISTING ONE !!!!
Hope i put my idea across...
Another point missed by the cattle... Quoting old posts without knowing the context 4tl. I don't decline those missions because they are hard (there is no hard lvl4 for me) but because their ISK/time is crap. --------- There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Kestrel
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DRMALIKIA
United Technologies
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Posted - 2007.03.21 19:22:00 -
[228]
Edited by: DRMALIKIA on 21/03/2007 19:19:07 Why must EVE model every other MMORPG out there when it comes to GROUP activities? The mission system is not broken, stop trying to fix it! Mission Runners are just looking for some new content, ideas, creativeness on CCPÆs part. Instead, in one fell swoop; they all got their eyes poked out by a sharp pointy LVL 5+ stick.
Why must everything be focused 0.0 or low sec PVP engagements? I have yet to figure this out. More COMBAT! More FIGHTING! More . . . . just leave the carebears alone, let them care and bear to their little hearts content. They do serve a purpose in the grander scheme of things. Or just kill off your LVL 4 mission runner(s) who salvage and that will speed RIGs to their doom even faster.
Why it is so important to FORCE players into scenarios they are not interested in participating in?
For those of you that say ôNo one is forcing them into anythingö I disagree. If you are removing play options from people by altering their play style, income, or enjoyment factor. You are FORCING them to make decisions on. . .
1)Quitting the game (not enjoyable, not going to play anymore) 2)Train up skills for another means of living (I am a fighter who runs missions for isk, now I have to train up 6 months of mining skills to make isk) 3)Maintaining a lower level income because the better income has moved on to another low sec 0.0 area (cannot afford to take that risk and are left out of the profits)
If I am FORCED to make a choice as to risk vs reward in order to enjoy new content, I cannot risk my few hours a day reserved to play EVE on pirate gankers in low sec or the war forces of 0.0. The enjoyment factor of doing risky LVL 4 mission in high sec is that the mission(s) by themselves are quiet easy (based on skill, fittings, and funds) once you figure them out. However, toss in the ability for a pirate gank squad hunting you down in the middle of that mission, whether you are soloing it or your corporation of 20 members is assisting, the game mechanics go right out the*****pit window. (air lock opens, floating body ensues)
Think about the drastic change in game environment you are creating for mission runners?
Pirates know exactly where good agents are located just as mission runners do. Mission runners always go with the highest agent and highest quality yielding maximum profit. Pirates will camp gates/stations, probe out mission runners, and hinder in every way possible any mission runner(s) in that system from being profitable.
Remember the existing issue with deadspace complexes being controlled by certain corporations and alliances? Same scenario will happen with LVL 5+ agents in low sec & 0.0. The pirate/alliance/corporation in that system will control the agent and farm that agent for their endeavors. Once that happens CCP can kiss their new improvement good bye because no solo player, Small Corporation will be able to compete in that arena. If the mission runner cannot make a profit off a mission because a group controls the agent, how are they to make a living, fund a battle to control the agent in question? They cannot compete without investing 5 times the playing effort running LVL 4Æs not to mention they do not like PVP in the first place and probably would not have taken quit already.
Simply put, the creation of profitable low sec 0.0 LVL 5+ agents will exclude everyone else except strong corporations and alliances from utilizing those agents. 10% of the player population will control 90% of the wealth and, 90% of the population will control 10% of the wealth. *Please widen the gap more then what it currently is between the wealthy player class and the lowly mission runner. Go go gadget CCP NERF!* *sarcasm
Frustrated, DRMALIKIA
The doctor is at your service. |
Firane
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.03.21 20:00:00 -
[229]
Edited by: Firane on 21/03/2007 19:56:40 I have to agree with the above poster about nerfing things forcing them into lowsec or whatnot. I am a PvPer, I PvP 95% of the time, I do it in lowsec and 0.0. There is already a system in place to make running level 4s in lowsec much more profitable. Setting mission runners up for this by giving them level 4's in highsec and then nerfing them to **** making them do something that they haven't had to for years is borderline false advertising(and a good ******* way to lose customers) - something I can never agree with.
Adding level 5's and 6's and whatever in lowsec is fine, but do not change game mechanics that aren't broken to begin with and haven't been for a long time. And hey, you just might keep their monthly fee for a bit longer.
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Cavtrooper
Caldari Hades Ascent
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Posted - 2007.03.22 03:04:00 -
[230]
Enemies Abound Need a jump clone? Tired of jumping 30 jumps to hang out with friends? Try our new Jump Clone Service! |
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Plasticine Perfection
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Posted - 2007.03.22 07:53:00 -
[231]
Edited by: Plasticine Perfection on 22/03/2007 07:52:54
Originally by: Andrue
Originally by: Plasticine Perfection However moving the upcoming lvl 5's into low/no sec will mean we stop doing missions, simple as. We're not going to add mission gankers to our risks, that's not how we play.
I dislike being rude but that is the most idiotic thing I've read recently. Why should the fact that new content is located somewhere you don't want to go stop you using the content you are currently happy with?
Did you quit when POSes were released? Did you quit when Titans were released? Why did you continue playing when you realised you can't mine Arkonite and Bistot?
FFs, some you whiners really need to calm down and stop jumping off the deep end. CCP are well aware how many of us play the game and they are not going to significantly nerf existing content. L5 missions are new content that doesn't already exist. When they are released you have a choice to run them if you want or continue with L4. They've said there will be new L4 missions so just WTF is your problem?
Wait until they are released and the rewards become obvious. Maybe if you know you can earn hundred mil per mission (my guess) you'll grow a pair. I know I will for that kind of money.
Wow.... totally unessecarily aggressive and rude post. It doesn't really deserve a response because of the tone, but I'll give you one anyway because I'm nice like that.
We do missions to fund our pvp. We tend to pvp for a while, then run missions for a while. I have a wife and a family and when I'm pvp'ing it takes a LOT more of my attention and concentration than mission running. If I did that all the time I'd be neglecting my family.
Instead I alternate - after a bit of pvp I'll spend a week or so running the occasional missions in the evening. With the setup that we use, in high-sec, I am able to maintain conversations with my wife and my children, they get some of my attention.
That's not the case in no/low-sec. Let your attention waver for a second and that's when you'll get probed out and ganked.
Now, what's been said is that level 4's are going to become easier and the current hardest lvl 4's will be made into level 5's and moved to low-sec. Yes there will be new lvl 5 content, but the current content WILL NOT stay as it is.
Reducing the difficulty of level 4's (making them closer to current level 3's) will also bring along a reduction in rewards for them. This is self-evident, reduce risk, reduce reward, yes?
Now, if the rewards for level 4's are reduced further then they simply won't be worth us running in high-sec. We DON'T make 100 mil per mission, we DON'T make billions per month, not all of us can devote 3+ hours per day playing a computer game you know.
So, if the proposed changes happen as has been described by devs, i.e. reduce risk/reward of level 4's, make lvl 5's low-sec only, ie. FORCE me and my mission partner to move to low-sec to earn enough money from the limited play time that we have to fund our pvp then we will (read this bit carefully, ok?) simply stop doing missions.
Want me to spell that out clearly for you again? Simply. Stop. Doing. Missions.
Did I say quit? Did I say, in this post or my previous one, that we'd quit? No. You may want to go back and read it again if that eluded you.
Now, maybe you should try reading what people write and maybe, just maybe, try thinking about the fact that not every single person playing this game is the same as you and can play in the same way that you can and has the exact same real life situation that you have.
OK?
Edit: From your post: "CCP are well aware how many of us play the game and they are not going to significantly nerf existing content."
I'm sorry but that simply isn't true. I've been playing EVE for over 3 years now and significant nerfs, especially to missions are the norm. CCP operate by repeated and regular nerfing of content in response to forum whining.
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DRMALIKIA
United Technologies
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Posted - 2007.03.22 18:35:00 -
[232]
/signed with the above poster.
That is were CCP has gone wrong. PVE types want exactly that, PLAYER vs ENVIRONMENT. I am sorry but low sec mission running is a combination PVE & PVP. No different then ratting in 0.0 with the constant threat of being hunted down and popped. So by moving all this new content, along with existing difficult LVL 4 content to low sec 0.0, your robbing content from the people that enjoy the PVE experience the most; the mission runner.
Now that the ôGood Stuffö has been moved to areas most PVE types donÆt want to go, they are left with few alternatives, risk your 1/2 billion to 1 billion ship to run a few mission in low sec. OR the alternative is to make less isk with the same time invested running LVL 4Æs, minus the good LVL 4Æs. That is a counter productive game improvement all around. What is so wrong with having LVL 5+ agents in high sec, low sec &, 0.0? Risk vs Reward you say? Smart people, do not take stupid risks, or at least they are very calculating in the risks they do take.
If the missions are supposedly harder, requiring more personnel to complete the mission, isn't that still accomplishing the end goal of getting people to band together and work as a team? More people banding together to accomplish a goal, coming up against a large enemy out numbered and out gunned. You sure as heck will get more ôParticipationö and more ôTeam Workö from allowing LVL 5+ in all areas of security then just low sec on down. Put yourself in the shoes of a new player to the game. They will at some point have to PVP now if they wish to continually advance in the mission running aspect of the game. No way around it now, it isnÆt PVE just delayed PVP.
CCP already released EXODUS, you know the whole, traveling out to low sec and 0.0. When did Kali turn into Exodus 2.0?
But I suppose I am wasting my breath as the player population is just a bunch of whiners and cry babies and all the point making, ranting, complaining, offering of suggestions, etc does not seem to amount to jack diddly squat in the end.
I hear exploration is kinda fun, guess I will start training that up so I can stop mission running when it goes to the dogs.
I digress.
DRMALIKIA
The doctor is at your service. |
raven415
Caldari Special Projects Corp
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Posted - 2007.03.26 15:28:00 -
[233]
Originally by: Zrakor Edited by: Zrakor on 23/02/2007 13:44:38 We'll be spicing up the level 4 missions in Empire space with escalating paths, possible commander spawns etc. They won't be as profitable or as hard as level 5 missions, but if you're looking for solo activity they will be fine.
We are also working at giving players more tools to fight against pirates in low sec. We want to see mission runners group up and fight as a gang, defend each other, make corporations and even alliances based on this. The bread and butter of mmorgs is group play, and we really want to nudge people into that. But we will not remove solo activities, and we will not push everyone into low sec (nudge not push), you will still be able to make a good living in high-sec.
Sir my respects, I think what your not understanding is that most mission runners are mission runners for a reason. Not that their anti-social, just that their time is limited to a few hours. Or they have no desire to be in conflict with other real people. This goes against many peoples beliefs, then why play eve you might be thinking. Thats a good question. Not wanting to cause harm to another doesn't mean there is no competitive nature, just that it is focused in a different way.
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raven415
Caldari Special Projects Corp
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Posted - 2007.03.26 15:32:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Traak 1. Enemies abound 1 of 5: the warp scramblers and the DPS make it really tough. The risk coupled with the faction hit and the lack of bounties make me reject this every time, so I've never gone further in the storyline
2. Worlds Collide: Hard if you don't know what you're doing.
3. Blockade: Again, hard if you don't know what you're doing or if you trip the wrong ship. It's impossible to tell which is the trigger sometimes.
4. Angel Extravaganza: bonus room is the REAL hard part. Hardest of all rooms in any mission IMO.
5. Pirate Invasion: whole room aggro in nasty
Overall, any mission can be hard if you don't know what you're doing. Drones tripping whole room aggro make them harder. Gangs tripping whole room aggro make them harder. So, some of the ones I've listed *can* be "easy", but these are what I think are the "hardest".
Hint try selling the tags to a Caldari navy agent theres the bounties and 5 of 5 is harder then 1 of 5 tho the missions in between are easy.
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Voin
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Posted - 2007.03.27 05:29:00 -
[235]
The hardes "mission's" for me:
1. Battle with lag 2. Battle with my own stupied drones 3. Listening spam of npc's in all channels 4. Flying nearly 100 km on the Raven from acc gate to acc gate 5. Crap loot table (still)
Hmm... Well, PLEASE leave lvl 4 mission's alone and kick creators of new missions to make complitely new for the lvl 5, 6 and 7 agent's... Don't let they life easy, they have to work for their salary...
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Visionsz
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2007.04.07 09:05:00 -
[236]
Just doing 'Enemies Abound' the first 4 stages were not bad but the 5th stage is insane.
I can do all Level 4's in a Cerb but this is madness, need to wait till after DT now to reset the instance as I made the error of thinking I could take down the gate before getting to much aggro... oops
All other Level 4's are ok.
Just some pics! |
jumbie
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Posted - 2007.04.07 12:01:00 -
[237]
"Could the more experienced mission runners on this forum please write down a list of 5 of the most difficult level 4 missions they have had to face. It would be much appreciated, thanks."
Extremely worrying that a game dev cannot check which missions players are turning down without consulting a forum. Unless, they are comparing feedback here too there own statistics.
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ElweSingollo
The Vanyar
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Posted - 2007.04.08 01:08:00 -
[238]
Edited by: ElweSingollo on 08/04/2007 01:12:35 hmmm well I can't comment on the v faction ones as I had to stop doing those some time ago as I am already at -5.00 to the Caldari but of the ones I do regularly I would say.
Angel Extra (bonus room) - this mission is dangerous if you don't know how to do it and the bonus stage deadly to someone not able to use a highly tanked ship... that being said I would say once you know *how* to approach it it is fairly straight forward if a little tedious due to length.
Worlds Collide (Serp/Gurista) - Gurista side is a proverbial pain in the backside if you only do Serpentis it is a lot easier
Blockade - one thing made this insane and that was the very very heavy damping you receive in it that does seem to have been lessoned to an extent so it is less evil than it was and if you know which ships not to kill you can tank reasonably easy.
Mordus Headhunters - Simply used to hate this mission full room agro on the second lvl unless you snip at > 80k is insane and melts most tanks that being said snipe it and it is ok but tedious.
The new Damsel mission might make it on to that list but as I have only had it once it is hard to comment without getting the suprise of my long range setup abaddon getting pummeled by NPC's that suddenly appear almost on top of me when I attacked the pleasure garden.
One observation I would like to make is that although I haven't pvp'ed a lot recently (although I used to quite a lot) however I am mainly doing lvl 4 missions in order to fund that habit (gets expensive when your looking a 2.5bil to get a carrier, skills and semi - decent kit for it) if high sec missioning gets nerfed the hell out of it so it makes it pointless for me to do them tbh you will probably one less player doing the very thing you want them too. Be very carefull in how you implement this CCP I am not averse to chanegs god I have seen enough of them in the time I have played eve nerfing just because is not a good enough reason.
CCP and Eve Online... It's not a bug, it's a feature
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Janus Ovellian
Minmatar Encina Technologies Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.04.08 01:11:00 -
[239]
Originally by: jumbie "Could the more experienced mission runners on this forum please write down a list of 5 of the most difficult level 4 missions they have had to face. It would be much appreciated, thanks."
Extremely worrying that a game dev cannot check which missions players are turning down without consulting a forum. Unless, they are comparing feedback here too there own statistics.
I would imagine that the majority of missions turned down are courier missions. :)
And simply finidng the missions turned down most frequently is not necessarily a good indicator of which are considered the most challenging. I will turn down a mission if I know it is going to take a long time and I don't have enough time to complete it, or if I know the reward is not very good for that mission.
Interesting times await... |
Tragus
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Posted - 2007.04.15 22:40:00 -
[240]
Originally by: Janus Ovellian
Originally by: jumbie "Could the more experienced mission runners on this forum please write down a list of 5 of the most difficult level 4 missions they have had to face. It would be much appreciated, thanks."
Extremely worrying that a game dev cannot check which missions players are turning down without consulting a forum. Unless, they are comparing feedback here too there own statistics.
I would imagine that the majority of missions turned down are courier missions. :)
And simply finidng the missions turned down most frequently is not necessarily a good indicator of which are considered the most challenging. I will turn down a mission if I know it is going to take a long time and I don't have enough time to complete it, or if I know the reward is not very good for that mission.
:Idea:
When you turn down a mission have a pop up with a reason why: A) to Hard B) too long C) wrong type (courier) D) open ended response
Something like that for more accurate and active input on missions.
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Kalam
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.04.16 09:56:00 -
[241]
Well I'm pretty new to level 4s but I tried Damsel in Distress last night and was taking mental damage, with 2 LAR IIs and 5 hardeners in a domi it would still have killed me in about 15 seconds, I'm just really glad I didn't get scrambled
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Stacy Lavelle
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Posted - 2007.04.16 12:17:00 -
[242]
DO people actually bother reading other dev posts and blogs?
If so you would have read proposed agent level structures which this post is probably planning for. Level 5 agents are going to be availiable, but they are going to be the hardest lvl4 missions. Before every one throws their toys out of the pram, have a little think. Maybe they are asking what are the hardest missions because they are going to put them to lvl5, or need a benchmark to know what lvl5 missions are going to be like.
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Fitz VonHeise
United Connection's
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Posted - 2007.04.16 17:53:00 -
[243]
Originally by: DRMALIKIA Why it is so important to FORCE players into scenarios they are not interested in participating in?
^^//signed
I've got 8 accounts I pay for. I mission run Level IV with the little time I have available. Some days I like to run easy missions and some days hard ones. Why not just make new Level V missions and leave Level IV's alone. Your making me think about going back to playing Battlefield 42.
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Mik Nostrebor
Minmatar ORKS
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Posted - 2007.04.16 23:01:00 -
[244]
This thread is an odd one. I mean they ask what the 5 hardest missions are, then in the middle of it all they alter a bunch of missions making different ones harder.
On that note, I thought they were trying to make level 4's more accessible to newer players? Why then have the missions become much harder and more dangerous? I am a year old player, and while my setup wasn't the absolute most efficient tech II Raven missioning setup it should not have to be. What is the point of giving us ranges of mods and skills if we are all forced to fit our ships out in one way just to be able to tank the hideous amounts of damamge while scrambled to hell and sensor damped beyond belief?
Sure, go ahead and reduce the numbers of NPC's and make them more like player ships. Don't do this half pied messed up hybrid. Most EW is only good against a single target and while there are 20+ medium difficulty NPC's targetting us sensor damps, ECM etc are all pretty useless. In fact, they take up the slots needed to tank with.
I can understand that raising the threat of missions it has resulted in making level 4's much more inaccessible to younger players. With 1.4 I lost 3 Ravens in 2 weeks...even with having support vessels along. I am a very cautious player and found that the new mission designs were truly booby traps. Designed to trick and destroy even a partially informed and careful player.
Yes, I like the idea that missions may take different approches to complete. But for the sake of sanity, make it actually possible to use these approaches. Eg in the "Cargo" mission. I tried to use a shuttle, a rifter with ab and a rifter with MWD to get to the warehouse and get the goods and warp out (after losing a raven). Each time the placement and range of the NPC's was such that, as soon as I slowed down to access the warehouse (transversal drops) I died. Instantly. Even when orbitting at 500m.
Other missions that have traps force me to warp to a specific point where the NPC's just hammer me to death. The mission design is such that unless I am the Mission T2 Raven (tm) setup or the faction equivalent I cannot survive, even with othe player helping. One ship will die.
Now other people have no problems, due to using the Mission T2 Raven (tm) and having the 5mill +++ SP in Missiles and Engineering needed (I have 1 mill engineering and 1.2mill in missiles). I have been playing Eve for a year now and and have worked up to fly a raven with reasonable profeiciency (IE T2 capable in everything but cruise missiles) and I feel that this should be sufficient to make it work.
The complaints always were that the gap between level 2 & 3 and also the gap between 3 & 4 were excessive. Well now it looks like the gaps have widened. IE 3's are harder (you have to be a very good BC pilot to manage aall missions) and 4's are a greater step than before Rev 1.4.
Is this what you were intending? It did not seem so from your Blogs.
Mik
AUSSIE AND KIWI EVE Fansite |
Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2007.04.17 00:59:00 -
[245]
minnie mission runner - vagabond - gist x large sb, dread sb amp, ab, cap battery
1a) mordus headhunter lvl4 (dont like kinetic dmg...) 1b) mordus headhunter lvl3 (same) 2a) blockade lvl4 (painters.... kinetic missles) 2b) blockade lvl3 (see above) -- i hear both are easy with sniping BS - of course once you know what to not shoot first 5) stop the thief - okok i can outrun the wingmen but newcomers are bound to fail here 4) worlds collide, angel thingy (the spies' webs) - sansha part is easier with vaga stats 5) uhhh the new one with the nos ("cargo... something") - totally doable but i could imagine newer peeps having a lot of trouble
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Militis Kolosok
Caldari Praetorian BlackGuard
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Posted - 2007.05.12 21:43:00 -
[246]
I won't list five, but Silence the Informant is crazy. First time running it I wasn't able to take out all the frigs/drones in time on the second level/room (I did use my Hobgoblin IIs to help, etc) and pretty much got killed before being able to warp. Of course I didn't start immediately checking whether I could warp out. I did so when I was below 30% shields (I'm not passive tanked, just wanted to warp and come back to see where I can redo my fittings). Anyways, lost a Raven with named, t2, and faction gear. Oh well...
Praetorian BlackGuard Now Recruiting! |
Mortimerxvi
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Posted - 2007.05.13 05:32:00 -
[247]
Cigarettes. Hardest mission out there. Especially because of the second hand smoke issue. Do you know how hard that is to get out of my pod?!?
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Tortilla Smasher
SpearMint Rhino GentleMen's Club Carpe Diem.
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Posted - 2007.10.18 05:13:00 -
[248]
Edited by: Tortilla Smasher on 18/10/2007 05:14:15 Worlds Collide is pretty redic, I can't dual rep the angel side. Prolly cuz I rolled Ammar :( |
Dapper Danny
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.10.18 06:50:00 -
[249]
Edited by: Dapper Danny on 18/10/2007 06:53:02 Edited by: Dapper Danny on 18/10/2007 06:51:48 Ignore me ... didnt realise this was a sticky :P
Errr ... I need to go to bed... my brain aint workin, beh sticky indeed.
Oh and Necro much?...
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Rellana
The Silent Rage M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.10.18 07:01:00 -
[250]
I'd have to count the Blokade lv4 as a hard one as well if you don't know what you are doing,as I got this mission first off and proceeded to shoot the cruiser first,before long I had about 8 bsses to deal with,which required mutiple warp-outs..
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Qui Shon
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Posted - 2007.10.18 08:51:00 -
[251]
STOP necroing, when there is no point to doing so.
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Bimjo
Caldari SKULLDOGS
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Posted - 2007.10.18 14:38:00 -
[252]
Originally by: Tortilla Smasher Edited by: Tortilla Smasher on 18/10/2007 05:14:15 Worlds Collide is pretty redic, I can't dual rep the angel side. Prolly cuz I rolled Ammar :(
you sir are an idiot
can a dev please lock this thread
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Pwett
Minmatar QUANT Corp.
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Posted - 2007.10.18 19:03:00 -
[253]
bbrrraaaaiiiinnnnsssss _______________ Pwett CEO and Founder [QTC]QUANT Corp.
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Destructor1792
Minmatar Republic Justice Squad
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Posted - 2007.11.03 14:13:00 -
[254]
Originally by: CCP Zrakor Could the more experienced mission runners on this forum please write down a list of 5 of the most difficult level 4 missions they have had to face. It would be much appreciated, thanks.
Not sure about 5 but 3 i can think of (although not difficult... just annoyingly slow to complete):
Mordus Headhunters Angel Extravaganza (+bonus room) World Collide (Angel + Sansha) ______________________________________
WE BRAKE FOR NO-ONE.. BECAUSE WE HAVE NO BRAKES.... Arghhhhhhh........
I Have No Fear, Fear is for the weak. |
Coreantes
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Posted - 2007.11.03 15:34:00 -
[255]
Can't say I find "Worlds Collide" very hard!
My #1 hard mission: In The Midst Of Deadspace (5 stage storyline mission, non-important) ________________________________________________ Good is only skin deep, Evil is dead down to the bone... |
Koryvarn
Amarr Liberty Rogues
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Posted - 2007.11.03 16:21:00 -
[256]
Vengeance (guristas) The Assault (guristas) ---- The Blockade (sansha) Silence the informant Damsel in Distress
The top two are the only missions I really have any difficulty with, mainly due jamming.
The bottom 3 are the harder lvl 4's, where I occasionaly have to align for warp out if something goes wrong.
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.11.03 19:02:00 -
[257]
Originally by: Tortilla Smasher Edited by: Tortilla Smasher on 18/10/2007 05:14:15 Worlds Collide is pretty redic, I can't dual rep the angel side. Prolly cuz I rolled Ammar :(
Do not necro if you really don't have point to add.
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000Hunter000
Gallente Magners Marauders
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Posted - 2007.11.03 23:08:00 -
[258]
Edited by: 000Hunter000 on 03/11/2007 23:09:25 Hard missions? not a mission but a stage, the only stage that still makes me work for my isk is the bonus stage of angel ganza
EDIT: aaarghh didn't see the date on it!
Another good reason to add auto lock function to these forums. CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
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Najenna
Minmatar Caldari Deep Space Ventures
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Posted - 2007.11.05 06:05:00 -
[259]
Edited by: Najenna on 05/11/2007 06:06:01 Well if my opinion counts here I would have to say that the hardest lvl 4 mission or room is the Worlds Collide Angel/Sansha mission. The Angel side I can do in my sleep but the Shansha side is a very good challege but still is hard for me due to the loading of the room and the massive lag when the first set of npc's aggro me. Other than that, none of the other lvl 4 mission are hard. Atleast not hard in my eyes.
I have read a couple replies in here about people talking about the A.E. bonus room. That room is not that hard I mean once you destroy all the cruise missle lauchers I think 3 or 4 of them the bonus room is easy. Seriously I solo it in my Fleet Tempest with out warping out and I have a mediorcer shield tank.
If anything add some more harder lvl 4 missions. I need something new to pew pew at. Once you get this Robotech thing in your blood its there to stay... |
Bellator Militaris
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Posted - 2008.01.05 10:40:00 -
[260]
Stop the Thief: I wiped out the first swarm. np Then I charged into the second swarm. A minor mistake. My Armor went red so fast I thought, here goes another ship to the bone yard. I warped out. Came back with both reepers on and killed them all. Lucky me. I was in my Domi The big fat ship that needs to loose weight. hehe
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Ter Fordal
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Posted - 2008.01.05 16:34:00 -
[261]
Yay, CCP is nerfing the high sec isk extravaganza. Yes, lots of people may quit because of this, no, I don't think the game will miss those that do. People are going to have to put a little bit more thought into making their isk and take some pvp risk whilst doing so, this is an excellent development.
As for tools for making mission running much safer, put probes on the overview, voila! Mission running in low sec is just not very dangerous already if you are careful. Maybe if you are in a pimped CNR the risk/reward is not favourable but EVE is not supposed to be a game where you max out everything and then sit back WTFPWNing monsters. As for making missioning more like pvp, I don't see this as the issue. In Eve whenever you don't choose the engagement you are generally going to lose, changing mission setups would just ensure pirates changed their gangs accordingly.
I think those panicking about having to form a gang to make real isk are misreading this, presumably the current level 4's are going to be available in some form and still soloable. You will still be able to log on in your mission ship and knock off a few missions, you just won't be in high sec. As long as grouping up is more (or at least as) profitable, I see no reason for complaint.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.01.05 20:06:00 -
[262]
Necro, please lock.
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SheriffFruitfly
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.01.05 21:51:00 -
[263]
Enemies Abound 5. That sh#t's just crazy.
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