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Stouman Black Avatar Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.30 21:36:00 - [691] Didn't read the forums, but read the dev blog; As usual, CCP on the whole has reaffirmed my faith in it being amazingly good-natureded, skilled, and brilliant... for human game developers.
Pseudothei GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 21:40:00 - [692] So we're back where we started, and CCP chose to not learn a single thing from this, nor see what this was about at the core of things. How uninspiring. Your signature was inappropriate, email [email protected] to find out why (don't forget to include a link to it) -Sahwoolo
Vaddy GAC	Posted - 2007.05.30 21:40:00 - [693] http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=472 nice screenshots CCP - but you doesnt accept screenshots as a proof - or can we now it too
Mister Spanky Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 21:45:00 - [694] Has anyone else seen the screenshots of BoB and CCP Dev's playing Battlefield 2142 together yet? Because they're pretty lol too.
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.30 21:47:00 - [695] Originally by: Caldari citizen5844564 Edited by: Caldari citizen5844564 on 30/05/2007 21:35:57 It saddens me that CCP has not addressed the issue of dianabolic's admissions to using msn to effectivly cheat. I have IA asking them why they have no response, but I find it unlikely they will answer me. I also emailed the mods several days ago with a very straightforward question, so far no response. Its safe to say that CCP is infact hiding something. And hi lo, in wow noone knows who the devs are....... They fire anyone who presents a conflict of interest. WoW seems to be run much more professionally, mainly for the reasons listed above. If anyone can't understand exactly what is in your sig. That I pity the fool. ( never thought I'd quote BA.. but anyway. HE DIDN'T admit to cheating he admited to talking to his friends, friends who happen to work at CCP, and who in all likelyhood where friends with him before the became CCP employees. And I'm sorry, NDA or not, telling your close friends where you work isn't exactly strange. Even if those friends work for a freaking GAME.. do people realise that.. GAME GAME GAME GAME!!!! you happen to play. And if they're your friends your not about to put them into a position that could lose them their jobs. The big difference is that if I shouted in local I was gonna text my DEV friends to do whatever, people would be ROFLMAO. but if someone in BoB says it has to be cheating cause BoB always wins... :-D Well guess what, BoB always wins, cause well they're the best. It's hard to swallow, but that's the truth.
Richard Johannson	Posted - 2007.05.30 21:48:00 - [696] Originally by: Reachok Originally by: Vantras How having a direct line to the "gods of the game" or the referees is not seen as a major conflict of interest is amazing to me... Picture if you will a soccer (football game). . Two teams on the field battling it out for the world cup championships. The score is 2 to 2, 10 minutes left. Coach A gets on his walkie talkie and starts chatting with the referee currently on the field refereeing the game! Coach B looks for his walkie talkie and finds none! Would anyone accept "hey man...coach A and that referee are just buddies--theyre talking about stuff unrelated to the game". The fact that they are friends is irrelevant, the fact that they "say" theyre talking about things unrelated to the game is irrelevant. The perception is !! yes PERCEPTION IS! that one team is getting an unfair advantage over another. Now we have our little game, we have a past record of bad behavior between Coach A and the Referee...theyve been caught breaking the rules before. We fast forward and we have Coach A declaring to the entire stadium "YES IM TALKING TO THAT REFEREE OUT THERE ON THE FIELD-STOP WHINING YOU ARE JUST JEALOUS OF US"... rofl...are you kidding ! QFT This is probably the best analogy I've seen yet! Well put. /signed - It is simply not correct that one side can talk to the referees and the other not! Where does that exist? I simply don't believe that if a GM/Dev sees something during his work in game i.e. a Titan is build in a particular station, that he don't give this tactical enormous important information to his corp mates if he plays in the evening at home. The in game char of the ccp employee must be anonym, they can not tell the other players: i am a Dev! Everybody knows they have inside information.
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.30 21:49:00 - [697] Originally by: Mister Spanky Has anyone else seen the screenshots of BoB and CCP Dev's playing Battlefield 2142 together yet? Because they're pretty lol too. Yes I'm 100% sure that all 50.000 EVE players are just dying to see some friends/aquantances/whatever playing that EA moneymaker together... I sure would be THRILLED to see those screens... no really.
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.30 21:54:00 - [698] Originally by: Richard Johannson Originally by: Reachok Originally by: Vantras How having a direct line to the "gods of the game" or the referees is not seen as a major conflict of interest is amazing to me... Picture if you will a soccer (football game). . Two teams on the field battling it out for the world cup championships. The score is 2 to 2, 10 minutes left. Coach A gets on his walkie talkie and starts chatting with the referee currently on the field refereeing the game! Coach B looks for his walkie talkie and finds none! Would anyone accept "hey man...coach A and that referee are just buddies--theyre talking about stuff unrelated to the game". The fact that they are friends is irrelevant, the fact that they "say" theyre talking about things unrelated to the game is irrelevant. The perception is !! yes PERCEPTION IS! that one team is getting an unfair advantage over another. Now we have our little game, we have a past record of bad behavior between Coach A and the Referee...theyve been caught breaking the rules before. We fast forward and we have Coach A declaring to the entire stadium "YES IM TALKING TO THAT REFEREE OUT THERE ON THE FIELD-STOP WHINING YOU ARE JUST JEALOUS OF US"... rofl...are you kidding ! QFT This is probably the best analogy I've seen yet! Well put. /signed - It is simply not correct that one side can talk to the referees and the other not! Where does that exist? I simply don't believe that if a GM/Dev sees something during his work in game i.e. a Titan is build in a particular station, that he don't give this tactical enormous important information to his corp mates if he plays in the evening at home. The in game char of the ccp employee must be anonym, they can not tell the other players: i am a Dev! Everybody knows they have inside information. You can't believe, just because 1 person made 1 mistake in a 4 year period in a 100 man company, that it is possible that someone would be professional enough to not share such critical informaton with their corpmates. You do realise that means that you yourself would be unable to do so, and that says more about you then about anyone else right? There's a good saying in dutch. Zo de waard is vertrouwd hij zijn gasten. Which basically translates to that how much you trusth others has direct relationship with how trustworthy you yourself are. Guess why I'm not exactly suprised from which corner the allegations have been coming.
JoCool Caldari MASS	Posted - 2007.05.30 22:01:00 - [699] So far there's nothing to worry about. Why are some people so excited, the accusations were without any base or causality. Those over there waste their time on the forums while they could play a perfectly neutral game instead. Excuse me, Joe /back to EVE _______________________________________________________________________ Trey Azagthoth > Youre my idol Jocool. I wanna be like Jocool jr. or Jocool the sequel! Oveur > ohnoes jocool
Richard Johannson	Posted - 2007.05.30 22:04:00 - [700] You can believe it or not, but i won't do it. But just the possibility it could happen let other MMORG have that rule. And simply because there are persons which have a lower or a higher ethic standard than me, i will be on the secure side.
Cadela Fria Amarr The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen	Posted - 2007.05.30 22:09:00 - [701] Edited by: Cadela Fria on 30/05/2007 22:08:44 Well now - I could be cruel and say "hahahahah told you so!" to you mob mentality people who spent every waking moment accussing CCP of wrongdoings. I could also be cruel and rub it in your faces that you said "Once this is proven to be true, you'll feel really stupid Cadela Fria, cause you are", and now just laugh at you for doing precisely that to yourselves. You deserve it. I could equally be really mean and also belittle you all for calling us supporters of CCP, "fanbois" and "mindless sheep" when we said we did our homework and presented our arguments that debunked (sp?) everything you said. You deserve it. I could more so be such a tard to all you anti-CCP people for being so full of crap and now having to swallow it again, because there it is..proof that all you have said and claimed are a bunch of nonsense lies. You deserve it. Speaking of lies, I could also now squash a certain alliance for their lies and illicit acts against not only CCP, but us the player community. You deserve it. BUT you know what? I already did long ago in my many old posts against your kind, and right now I'm just reminding you, and I'll leave it with saying this: I was RIGHT all along, and I KNEW I was. YOU were WRONG, and you deserve no better then suffer with knowing that fact for the rest of your EVE-Life, that you anti-CCP lot, were the sheep, 16th-century brainless mob, fanbois of a certain unnamed hacker, and pop-culture affected zombies doing what was cool to do - hating CCP. You - Deserve - It. To those of you complaining about the MSN thing, read Arkanon's post again - he says specifically that they aren't granting anyone any special favors or unfair advantages - Come on, think..it won't hurt I promise. No unfair advantages/Special favors = No advantage even if you DO have CCP on MSN, just get over yourselves and stop crying. Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right
Ezra Gallente Calista Industries	Posted - 2007.05.30 22:10:00 - [702] Continuation of my last post: Why is the ISD member being blamed for clear deficiencies of the tools provide to him by CCP? The ISD member claims they used a CCP-provided command for teleportation which had the unfortunate side effect of not allowing someone to teleport at a distance from the target object. Does this command not exist, or is it deficient as claimed in the open letter? Why do the ISD teleport tools not allow teleporting at a safe distance from the target to avoid the chance of accidental bumping? According to the ISD member they immediately moved to a distant range to avoid any further problems beyond the initial unavoidable one. *Why do the ships used by ISD reporters even have a physical presence? Why are they even capable of bumping, given the clear deficiencies in the teleportation tools? ------------ Ezra Cornell
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.30 22:15:00 - [703] Originally by: Sentinel Eeex P.P.S: For the life of me, I can't understand how Dark Shikari survives posting on forums so much. I've been posting for 2 days only, I am exhausted. DS should get an award or a faction ship, at least... Its normally pretty easy, but this mess is making it a lot more taxing. Yeah, I should win a faction ship. An award would be nice though, they're voting on it now in the E-ON awards --23 Member-- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio!
deadtear GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 22:16:00 - [704] Originally by: Solo Drakban Edited by: Solo Drakban on 30/05/2007 22:07:08 This is the official GoonFleet response. There will be no other response. We thank you for reading. GoonFleet Response to DevBlog (http://goonfleet.com/reply_to_CCP.html) It was bottom of the paged, and deserves to be read.
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.30 22:16:00 - [705] Originally by: Ezra Originally by: Kuseka Adama Why does BoB have a direct MSN pipe to the developers? (Which Dianabolic has admitted to). This ISD member's banning would have been a non-event if not for the circumstances surrounding it which you have not addressed. As said a few lines above, why is t20 still around? Why is CCP's initial reaction to any possible accusations always a forceful coverup? (Permabanning for even single links in public channels to Goon's open letter.) Coverups say you have something to hide. Why does CCP try to antagonize the playerbase and lie to them when responding to such accusations? First you claimed that Sharkbait joined DarkStar 1 to fix a POS bug. DarkStar 1 CEOs/members claimed that no POS petition had ever been filed. In this response, you accuse them of lying about that when in fact they were telling the truth - the petition had nothing to do with a POS, directly conflicting with your initial response to the issue. Why were DarkStar 1's attempts to resolve the issue privately via petitions ignored? Why are you now threatening legal action against GoonSwarm/SomethingAwful for actions you cannot prove they committed? Yes, they were obviously connected to the EVE-O threadnaught, but how many of the digg and Slashdot comments can you connect to them? Not many I'm guessing, as many of those comments were not made by GoonSwarm, despite your implication that they were. I know this for a fact - I think GoonSwarm/the Something Awful crew are *******s, but I posted negative comments about CCP on Slashdot regarding this incident. Are you going to sue me too now? If you had read anything you would know most of the answers to your questions already. 1. They don't have a direct pipeline to CCP, some EVE players have devs on their msn lists because their friends, big difference. ( and yeah one of those players apparently is Dianabolic... big deal. ) 2. t20 is still around cause he was already punished, and punishing someone twice for the same offense doesn't swing ( not from legal standpoint either, firing someone for a offence you've cut his pay for isn't exactly legal in most civilized countries. ) that doesn't meant hat that was handled well, but nothing to be done about it now. 3... read the information a bit better. 4. Says who? The people that also falsely accused CCP for a lot of other things???? 5. They aren't threating anything, but having your company slandered, quite obviously means you look into getting damage compasition etc. through legal means. No suprises there. And spamming someones forums till they point they have to shutdown is something to look into as well. It has little to do with 1 negative post. Which for sure doesn't gather any negative feelings from CCP if it's posted in a respectful mannner.
Cadela Fria Amarr The League of Legitimate Nigerian Businessmen	Posted - 2007.05.30 22:18:00 - [706] Originally by: Ezra Originally by: Kuseka Adama This being said: I would like to see CCP adopt the following policy. Should a member of CCP be fired for misconduct in the game the termination and the general reason should be posted on the forums. Show players that house cleaning is happening and i think a lot of this calms down. I think that' is what this all boils down to. What t20 did was a termination offense at any other MMO company. In fact, at other MMO companies, interference with FAR less impact on gameplay is a termination offense. So, why is t20 still with CCP? Until t20 is gone, or CCP gives an EXTREMELY good reason for keeping him around despite committing what any ethical MMO company considers to be an "immediate termination" offense, the playerbase cannot in any way trust CCP to be an ethical entity. Pffft, says you, and you aren't the the whole player community, and you have no right to speak for me nor the rest of it. I for one, am tired of hearing about T20 - Let him do his job and be punished by his dented record. I'm sure he doesn't like it, nor do I believe any of you would if you were in his shoes. A decision was made, and once you've made a decision it's bad policy and bad business to change such a decision, and thats what has happened here - So get over yourself, shut up and move on. Originally by: Kuseka Adama GoonSwarm's allegations and accusations would have gone nowhere if it weren't for the fact that the playerbase's trust in the company has already been destroyed. Many of us were already passively waiting for an alternative to EVE due to the t20 incident already, and I know I'm moving to actively searching for an alternative after seeing yet another "just trust us!" whitewash. CCP's response to these accusations has yet again skirted key issues: Why does BoB have a direct MSN pipe to the developers? (Which Dianabolic has admitted to). This ISD member's banning would have been a non-event if not for the circumstances surrounding it which you have not addressed. As said a few lines above, why is t20 still around? Why is CCP's initial reaction to any possible accusations always a forceful coverup? (Permabanning for even single links in public channels to Goon's open letter.) Coverups say you have something to hide. Why does CCP try to antagonize the playerbase and lie to them when responding to such accusations? First you claimed that Sharkbait joined DarkStar 1 to fix a POS bug. DarkStar 1 CEOs/members claimed that no POS petition had ever been filed. In this response, you accuse them of lying about that when in fact they were telling the truth - the petition had nothing to do with a POS, directly conflicting with your initial response to the issue. Why were DarkStar 1's attempts to resolve the issue privately via petitions ignored? Why are you now threatening legal action against GoonSwarm/SomethingAwful for actions you cannot prove they committed? Yes, they were obviously connected to the EVE-O threadnaught, but how many of the digg and Slashdot comments can you connect to them? Not many I'm guessing, as many of those comments were not made by GoonSwarm, despite your implication that they were. I know this for a fact - I think GoonSwarm/the Something Awful crew are *****s, but I posted negative comments about CCP on Slashdot regarding this incident. Are you going to sue me too now? Key issues my arse - Half of those questions have already been answered if you cared to use your brain for 2 seconds instead of doing feeble strawgrabbing on something that has already passed, just face it - You lost. Other half of those questions are none of your darn business, simple as that - If you can't live with that fact, I reference you to Kieron saying basically "If you don't like us, we're sorry, good luck finding a new game". Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right**
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.30 22:18:00 - [707] Originally by: Ezra Continuation of my last post: Why is the ISD member being blamed for clear deficiencies of the tools provide to him by CCP? The ISD member claims they used a CCP-provided command for teleportation which had the unfortunate side effect of not allowing someone to teleport at a distance from the target object. Does this command not exist, or is it deficient as claimed in the open letter? Why do the ISD teleport tools not allow teleporting at a safe distance from the target to avoid the chance of accidental bumping? According to the ISD member they immediately moved to a distant range to avoid any further problems beyond the initial unavoidable one. *Why do the ships used by ISD reporters even have a physical presence? Why are they even capable of bumping, given the clear deficiencies in the teleportation tools? 1. EHm the tool isn't defienced the guy didn't use it properly ( it's not required at all to spawn at 0 meters from a ship at ALL ) 2. see 1, 3. ehm cause it's cooler and the tool isn't deficient!
Richard Johannson	Posted - 2007.05.30 22:18:00 - [708] Gariuys, how is it, if he is the CEO of the corp? How can you be sure that he will hide the titan in production info from himself? Will you believe in a conflict of interest in that case?
Eyam	Posted - 2007.05.30 22:20:00 - [709] Hi, To add my t'uppenyworth, it seems Goons started with 3 points : 1.) They accused Sharkbait of spying on their POS; The accusation may not have been explicit by the original corps involved, but certainly was in the subsequent Goon threadnought. 2.) They accused CCP of fixing events to benefit Bob. 3.) They accused CCP of sacking an ISD reporter without cause, after an improper approach by Bob. Point one has been proved false. Does anyone have a link to a Goon apology? Point two has been proved false. Does anyone have a link to a Goon apology? Point three remains. (I don't need a link to Goon comments on point three.) It seems frankly impudent for so many GS to be talking about point three without apologising for points one & two. My personal opinion on point three, very few people appear to be arguing about whether or not the ISD reporter should have been sacked. The remaining GS argument/complaint appears to be that it was done too quickly, due to some nefariously chummy relationship between CCP & Bob. Post Arkanon's ... err ... post, point 3 suddenly appears to be the gravest concern GS ever had. That's surprising to me. The idea that CCP might spy on a corps for a paricular alliance, or rig events to benefit a particular alliance, seems far worse than Bob having a quicker than normal access to devs. To me, CCP having friends in Bob & vice versa is, I suppose, just maybe a tad worrying. However, I agree CCP employees need to play the game, & friendships will develop. Plus, of course, it's one thing for CCP & Bob to speak via Msn, it's another for Bob to gain an advantage from this, for anything improper to occur. Was the sacking of the ISD reporter a good thing? Seems so. Was it improper that it was done so quickly? Maybe? Depends on your affiliation I suppose. Does carping on about this last point excuse GS' actions re points one & two? Imo, hell no. I see GS posts re CCP's reputation. Ironic imo. I have only read the first 10 pages or so of this post, so if anyone has the link to the GS apology re points 1 & 2, I'd be grateful. Eyam.
General Windypops Gallente Skullduggery Inc	Posted - 2007.05.30 22:23:00 - [710] And when will Goonswarm be posting an official apology to the eve community for their deliberate, malicious attempts to sabotage a game that gives pleasure to so many people?
Debby Dallas Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2007.05.30 22:25:00 - [711] This thread has given me much amusement for the 30 pages of reading. From my point of view this seems to be a lot of. He said this, she said that, someone said this happened, she said the earth is square. Can everyone get a grip on their oversized ingame ego's. CCP have settled the issue you in their eyes, if you're still unhappy your only choice is to put your feet where your mouths are and walk.
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.30 22:27:00 - [712] Originally by: Richard Johannson Gariuys, how is it, if he is the CEO of the corp? How can you be sure that he will hide the titan in production info from himself? Will you believe in a conflict of interest in that case? If he found out by being a dev then yes he should not act on that information ( the exact reason why CCP employees should not be in command of anything, such as ehm someone who's name has been mentioned enough ) That there can be conflicts of interest noone denies. And that's unfortunate side effect of having devs be active in their own world we joined cause we share thier love for this type of game. And someone mistakes will be made, but BIG freaking deal, it's still just a game. And yes my view of this whole situation is biased, I sat down and had a beer with t20 during a fanfest and had a few laughs, he's a awesome guy, that made a mistake, and there's no bigger punishment imaginable that what is happening now.
Gariuys Evil Strangers Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.30 22:29:00 - [713] Originally by: Dark Shikari Originally by: Sentinel Eeex P.P.S: For the life of me, I can't understand how Dark Shikari survives posting on forums so much. I've been posting for 2 days only, I am exhausted. DS should get an award or a faction ship, at least... Its normally pretty easy, but this mess is making it a lot more taxing. Yeah, I should win a faction ship. An award would be nice though, they're voting on it now in the E-ON awards Your ego is plenty big enough as is :-P( and yes I'm one of your fanboys too, and did vote for you. ;-) )
Natasha Donnan Caldari The Kaminjosvig	Posted - 2007.05.30 22:33:00 - [714] Impressive Dev blog open frank and to the point. I hope that people can now take a big step back and consider the damage that this is doing to everyone around here. Just take that deep breath... _________________________________________ The Girl with the really Starey eyes.
Laura Baretta Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.05.30 22:39:00 - [715] The funny thing is, every statement CCP does, people keep raising new claims and accusations and questions. It's endless. Every point has been dismantled. Even the claim that BoB used direct contact to get that Dreadnought bumping handled. It was infact a petition. The only point thats left open is the one of people having MSN contacts with CCP employees, wich can't be proven or disproven, controlled or forbidden really. It's pointless arguing about it, but still people keep going on about it like they have nothing better to do. There is no evidence of any Players using MSN to bypass the petition system. Now you may not want to believe it, but that won't change the fact. Keep throwing around baseless assumptions and tantrums. The MSN Dilemma: CCP says it doesnt allow the use of MSN to bypass the Petition System ----> People don't believe it and demand a banning of MSN at CCP/ termination of any contacts between players and developers. This can never work, it's close to impossible. Yet for some people it would be the only way for CCP to redeem itself. That is the reason why there never will or can be a solution to this "problem". Some people demand to be notified when CCP members get fired for whatever reasons. ----> CCP can not do that, because it's forbidden by the law to make such things public. And as a side not, its none of our damn business. For some reason, some people seem to think that they need to know whats going on inside CCP. That is ofcourse totally utopic and stupid thinking. So yeah, the only thing you can do if you are STILL not satisfied how things are handled is to cancel your account and move on. You are falling on everyone elses nerves. Believe it or not, but 95% of the EvE population are happily playing an excellent and fair game. You are the hooligans of the internet. Going on a rampage for the sake of going on a rampage, making an elephant out of a mouse. It's tiresome and totally blown out of proportion, the way you have chosen to bring it to CCPs attention was totally wrong and damaged the company and the game alike. It's disgusting really.
Elmo Noguchi Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.05.30 22:42:00 - [716] Originally by: Solo Drakban Edited by: Solo Drakban on 30/05/2007 22:07:08 This is the official GoonFleet response. There will be no other response. We thank you for reading. GoonFleet Response to DevBlog (http://goonfleet.com/reply_to_CCP.html)
Drebble Gallente S-44 Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.05.30 22:47:00 - [717] So, if I have an issue I feel strongly about, its ok to use any means necessary to "get heard"? I will remember that if I ever file a petitions for reinbursement and it gets rejected. Then it's ON, CCP! --- Ships are just ISK. Honor is forever!
Ammoina University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.30 22:49:00 - [718] Originally by: Eyam Hi, To add my t'uppenyworth, it seems Goons started with 3 points : 1.) They accused Sharkbait of spying on their POS; The accusation may not have been explicit by the original corps involved, but certainly was in the subsequent Goon threadnought. 2.) They accused CCP of fixing events to benefit Bob. 3.) They accused CCP of sacking an ISD reporter without cause, after an improper approach by Bob. Point one has been proved false. Does anyone have a link to a Goon apology? Point one has been sidestepped. The issue raised by DS1 and the Goonfleet letter was never 'oh noes Sharkbait joined the corp and is spying on us', the issue was 'oh noes, we asked CCP why Sharkbait joined our corp and we got stonewalled and no resposne for 3 weeks.' CCP has now, after a gigantic forum hubris finally told DS1 why Sharkbait joined their corp. If anyone should be apologizing its CCP. Quote: Point two has been proved false. Does anyone have a link to a Goon apology? Goonfleet made no reference to events helping BoB. Rather than point in question was an Empire RP event that mainly concerned the Amarr role players. And it hasn't been proved false at all. CCP has essentially said 'um we err didn't get a chance to rig the end, so yeah we didn't rig it, yet' Quote: Post Arkanon's ... err ... post, point 3 suddenly appears to be the gravest concern GS ever had. That's surprising to me. The idea that CCP might spy on a corps for a paricular alliance, or rig events to benefit a particular alliance, seems far worse than Bob having a quicker than normal access to devs. Perhaps because while some spammers, goonfleet members and members of the rest of the playing public, myself included, hypothesized that he might have been spying is beside the point? Goonfleet's letter wasn't about him being a spy, it was about why they received no contact from CCP on the issue. And that still has yet to be addressed. Nor did GF accuse CCP of rigigng events to favor BoB. At least not in the open letter. That there might be event rigging going on to help out particular Alliances is probably true. That it is being done by CCP is most likely not. There are too many volunteers with too much information for event rigging to not occur.
Mik Nostrebor Minmatar Tech 3 Hotsauce Limited	Posted - 2007.05.30 22:51:00 - [719] Look, Now I am truly angry. Especially about issue 3. If this was supposed to be a report fro your IA people then sack them. The facts are not well documented (eg no time stamps) and sweeping statements (he has done it before) are made without the slightest evidence being provided. Q1. Had he ever been warned about his conduct before? A. You make no claim of that so that answer is NO Q2. When was this petition made? A. No dates...it was probably made AFTER THE FACT of that man's dismissal Q3. What formal processes do you have to deal with these situations? A. Obviously none. Even with the petition which really is not an issue. Bumping occurs. You do not refute his claim that the 'Jump to person' function he used does not put him extrememly close to the ship thereby causing a bump. Not to mention, a single bump on warp in to a dread is just tough luck. It is grounds for a warning maybe not dismissal. What sort of group sacks staff for this sort of thing? I doubt any court in the US or Iceland would uphold CCP's stance in an unfair dismissal suit (which of course a volunteer does not have access to). Your conclusions and report in section 3 show clearly the unprofessional and non- ISO 9001 compliant method of operation! How dare you serve up this absolute sham of a report and expect people to swallow it? Does Whitewolf know this is how you handle your business? If you decided to manage the issue in a professional and systematic way, EVEN ADMITTING THAT PROCESSES WHERE NOT FOLLOWED OR EXISTING would be better than the insult that this report is. We are your customers and though we are informal and often poorly educated you are the international corporation. Behave like one and report properly and act in a professional manner. Kim Robertson. 3.
Ammoina University of Caille	Posted - 2007.05.30 22:53:00 - [720] Edited by: Ammoina on 30/05/2007 22:52:33 Originally by: Laura Baretta The MSN Dilemma: CCP says it doesnt allow the use of MSN to bypass the Petition System ----> People don't believe it and demand a banning of MSN at CCP/ termination of any contacts between players and developers. This can never work, it's close to impossible. Yet for some people it would be the only way for CCP to redeem itself. People don't believe it because certian BoB members have come out and said 'we don't use petitions, we use MSN.' If they are lying they should be banned. If they are not lying.... Quote: Going on a rampage for the sake of going on a rampage, making an elephant out of a mouse. It's tiresome and totally blown out of proportion, the way you have chosen to bring it to CCPs attention was totally wrong and damaged the company and the game alike. It's disgusting really. GF tried petitions, they waited patiently for 3 weeks. They put up a single post on the board (a method recommend by the IA department). That post got axed. Yeah, they went about it all wrong And no, I'm not a Goonfleet alt. I'm an alt, but my Corp doesn't like people posting about this.

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