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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Kaloss
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Posted - 2008.01.22 21:44:00 -
[451]
Wow - Eve and DNS tonight @ 9:25 - they really are spoiling me tonight - u'd think I was paying for this service 
Anyway in case it is of interest / help, my last 6 hops are identical to when I can't connect but the the first 3 are not. These are still all named Pipex hops and not Tiscali and on the same subnets - but this suggests they're different routers?
Typcial that eve is working when I don't have time to play - anyway here's hoping some other folks on here are lucky tonight as well.
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elohllird
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.01.22 23:46:00 -
[452]
Guess what got my my mac code today, and Eve is working fine 
******* typical.
Checkin out new ISP'S atm
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Complex Potential
Soliders Of Eve
The Church.
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Posted - 2008.01.23 08:56:00 -
[453]
 Originally by: Mackers UK
Hi All,
So Tiscali sucks - but the big question is - who do we go to?
-----------
So in advance - who should i be looking at for service..? BT, PlusNet, Utility WareHouse, etc...
I wish there was a dedicated group of ISPs - one for film/music downloads (i don't do)one ISP for Mail/surfing (which is what work lunch break is for) - then one dedicated to games (i'd be using that one at home)...
Heck - i'd even pay 30 quid if the damned thing worked...
Hi Guys
I was with Tiscali until about a month ago. They started this traffic shaping crap on me around November and I finally got out just after new year.
A few people have pointed out that other ISPs are probably going to follow Tiscali's traffic shaping policy and I think they are right. So how can you find an ISP that wont go down the same road (or even worse, get eaten by the Tiscali monster)?
I was having the same issue until I stumbled on this service from Plusnet:
Plusnet's Your Way Pro
Plusnet used to use Tiscali's architecture but dropped them a few months back (so no chance of them going back any time soon). And the above package gives priority bandwidth to online gamers ALL OF THE TIME. And this includes Eve!
It has a 10GB per month limit, but Eve uses less than 15MB per hour so it will never come into play unless you want to download reams of movies.
I've been impressed with their service and the support guys are UK based and actually know what they're talking about.
I pay ú20 per month now rather than the ú15 I paid Tiscali, but I'm happy to say I'm getting 10 times the service and would thoroughly recommend Plusnet to any gamers.
Hope this helps.
CP
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Freya B
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Posted - 2008.01.23 11:35:00 -
[454]
GRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've been emailing Pipex for the last 16 days about this with loads of references, ideas, data. Today I get the generic reply:
"It is more than likely that your online game is being traffic managed. Games and downloads that use high bandwidth are manages to ensure all users on our network get a fair amount of bandwidth. More details on this issue can be found on our website or clicking on the following link - http://www.pipex.co.uk/legal/aup.php
Please feel free to contact us for further assistance"
That's it??? 
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Snaith
Minmatar
Bug Eyed Monsters
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Posted - 2008.01.23 11:49:00 -
[455]
Originally by: Freya B
GRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've been emailing Pipex for the last 16 days about this with loads of references, ideas, data. Today I get the generic reply:
"It is more than likely that your online game is being traffic managed. Games and downloads that use high bandwidth are manages to ensure all users on our network get a fair amount of bandwidth. More details on this issue can be found on our website or clicking on the following link - http://www.pipex.co.uk/legal/aup.php
Please feel free to contact us for further assistance"
That's it???
Well thats a load of ....... as we all know, so if they are saying it's because the game is a high bandwith usage, you can show it isn't, and ask them to then justify, shaping it, and keeping you in your contract.
I would be interested in their reply.
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Ofca
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Posted - 2008.01.23 12:54:00 -
[456]
EVE doesn't use anything near to a "lot" of bandwidth - it's playable on 55.6k modem. It's just sad case of accidental L7 filtering - eve's communication protocol just matched a known fingerprint somehow and it's treated as filesharing traffic. Simplest proof of this is my ssh tunneling service - tiscali/pipex sees only encrypted traffic which doesn't hit any filters, and therefore for 20mln ISK/week eve is working fine for you again. When I did some testing with some of my first customers, we tried simple port redirection without encrypting traffic, which of course failed in exactly same way as direct connection - so they don't care to/from where you send/receive your traffic, they care what the payload is.
This is exactly the same thing that happened to iTunes. Why was iTunes reason enough to rollback configuration changes, and eve wasn't? Compare user-base of the two :(
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Snaith
Minmatar
Bug Eyed Monsters
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Posted - 2008.01.23 14:07:00 -
[457]
Originally by: Ofca
EVE doesn't use anything near to a "lot" of bandwidth - it's playable on 55.6k modem. It's just sad case of accidental L7 filtering - eve's communication protocol just matched a known fingerprint somehow and it's treated as filesharing traffic. Simplest proof of this is my ssh tunneling service - tiscali/pipex sees only encrypted traffic which doesn't hit any filters, and therefore for 20mln ISK/week eve is working fine for you again. When I did some testing with some of my first customers, we tried simple port redirection without encrypting traffic, which of course failed in exactly same way as direct connection - so they don't care to/from where you send/receive your traffic, they care what the payload is.
This is exactly the same thing that happened to iTunes. Why was iTunes reason enough to rollback configuration changes, and eve wasn't? Compare user-base of the two :(
Yep thats right , we established this ages ago, and Tiscali admitted too.
Thats why people going on about blocked ports were on the wrong track, and also why the alternate port to 26000 suggested fix didn't work.
It's also why other online games don't suffer as much, some not at all.
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Freya B
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Posted - 2008.01.23 14:23:00 -
[458]
Originally by: Snaith
Yep thats right , we established this ages ago, and Tiscali admitted too.
Originally by: Ofca
It's just sad case of accidental L7 filtering - eve's communication protocol just matched a known fingerprint somehow and it's treated as filesharing traffic.
OK, what I need now then is something I can quote back to Pipex, please.
I can't get onto the Tiscali forum, and Pipex doesn't have one. Is there any published information (i.e. some quotes from Tiscali or Pipex employees) that I can access? I need to prove to them, out of their own mouths, that it is a fault that they have not fixed.
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Ofca
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Posted - 2008.01.23 14:28:00 -
[459]
It's not their "fault". They have every right to filter and shape your traffic as they see fit limited by legal contract between you and them, which contract is further limited by laws in your country. On the other hand you have every right to change your provider. They know what the problem is at this point, and judging by the looks of things you are wasting your time (problem persists for months now). Fixing this problem takes no more than few man-hours of competent administrator - they probably feel that they did a good job with minor collateral damage (eve online).
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Riggwelter
Caldari
Drinkers Appreciation Soiciety
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Posted - 2008.01.23 15:09:00 -
[460]
Edited by: Riggwelter on 23/01/2008 15:09:57
Edited by: Riggwelter on 23/01/2008 15:09:12
Originally by: Freya B
Originally by: Snaith
Yep thats right , we established this ages ago, and Tiscali admitted too.
Originally by: Ofca
It's just sad case of accidental L7 filtering - eve's communication protocol just matched a known fingerprint somehow and it's treated as filesharing traffic.
OK, what I need now then is something I can quote back to Pipex, please.
I can't get onto the Tiscali forum, and Pipex doesn't have one. Is there any published information (i.e. some quotes from Tiscali or Pipex employees) that I can access? I need to prove to them, out of their own mouths, that it is a fault that they have not fixed.
try here
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Freya B
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Posted - 2008.01.23 16:02:00 -
[461]
Thanks - can you be a bit more specific? I'm at work and can't really read through 37 pages of user comments. Is there a statement from Tiscali somewhere within it, where they accept that it's a fault not a policy?
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Zenith Bane
Intercommercial Aerospace Retail United Stations
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Posted - 2008.01.23 19:07:00 -
[462]
UPDATE:
Had a pointless response from Tiscali asking my to do everything I've already tried. (Delete temporary internet files + DNS checks etc)
Also, can't seem to access the support section to update my query to them.
Tried to register on the forums, still waiting for an activation email.
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Snaith
Minmatar
Bug Eyed Monsters
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Posted - 2008.01.23 20:08:00 -
[463]
Originally by: Freya B
Thanks - can you be a bit more specific? I'm at work and can't really read through 37 pages of user comments. Is there a statement from Tiscali somewhere within it, where they accept that it's a fault not a policy?
The whole Tiscali Eve sticky thread is a technical ticket, see the number at the front, several ref inside that it's a problem etc, post numbers 201,219,221,231,225,261,263,263,287,355,393,426.
Anyone can see from that lot, it's an admission of a technical issue thats being fixed.
It's also the ticket number used to get out of your Tiscali contract (yes I know your Pipex)
And any more help from people to fight this would be appreciated, not just using the info and running, we need you to continue the pressure , spreading the word, even if you change providers.
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Snaith
Minmatar
Bug Eyed Monsters
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Posted - 2008.01.23 20:21:00 -
[464]
Read this click here
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Kaloss
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Posted - 2008.01.23 21:09:00 -
[465]
Yeah right
"He insisted that Tiscali is not for sale, but said the ongoing squeeze on margins makes the firm vulnerable"
Sounds like a company desperately hoping someone will come along and buy them out to me
Fact is Tiscali have never make a profit, have grown their user base on the back of cheap prices and exaggerated promises, have struggled to control spiralling costs by cutting everything to the bone and now is desperately hoping that some muppet comes along and gives them a wad of cash for their ôuser baseö before they all leaveà.
You can probably tell that after being after to briefly connect this evening IÆve now been kicked off again.
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Cherrykin99
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Posted - 2008.01.23 21:45:00 -
[466]
Edited by: Cherrykin99 on 23/01/2008 21:46:33
Originally by: Snaith
.....And any more help from people to fight this would be appreciated, not just using the info and running, we need you to continue the pressure , spreading the word, even if you change providers.
I can see no point in fighting this. Tiscali (Pipex) have had a very long time to fix this problem and have shown very little competence or interest. Let's face it, If you're an online gamer you have no business being with any ISP with connections to Tiscali. You want to fight them? Stop paying them. Get your MAC code and pay someone who does not screw you. Stand up for your right. You can get your cancellation fee waived since they have changed their service so drastically that they rendered it useless, you just have to stand up to them. Hit them where it hurts, in the wallet.
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Snaith
Minmatar
Bug Eyed Monsters
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Posted - 2008.01.23 21:56:00 -
[467]
Edited by: Snaith on 23/01/2008 22:05:10
Originally by: Cherrykin99
Edited by: Cherrykin99 on 23/01/2008 21:46:33
Originally by: Snaith
.....And any more help from people to fight this would be appreciated, not just using the info and running, we need you to continue the pressure , spreading the word, even if you change providers.
I can see no point in fighting this. Tiscali (Pipex) have had a very long time to fix this problem and have shown very little competence or interest. Let's face it, If you're an online gamer you have no business being with any ISP with connections to Tiscali. You want to fight them? Stop paying them. Get your MAC code and pay someone who does not screw you. Stand up for your right. You can get your cancellation fee waived since they have changed their service so drastically that they rendered it useless, you just have to stand up to them. Hit them where it hurts, in the wallet.
They are holding Pipex customers to their contracts, and refusing to release them, there are people who play Eve who cannot dictate theit ISP
The repeated hit them where it hurts is about is killing off future custom, current custom they have already lost.
Tiscali and Pipex are changing peoples T and C's by offering free upgrades only then does the trouble hit. 12 month new contract.
Always the assumption we Tiscali, Pipex people are stupid, with your statement of the bleeding obvious, I'd just like to say we are not.
We are just getting caught by a bit of clever marketing.
Finally with the new contracts they moved a lot of people over to their own telephone lines, getting out of that situation can cost as much as a years ISP fees alone.
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Dr Akwami
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.01.23 23:51:00 -
[468]
Edited by: Dr Akwami on 23/01/2008 23:52:49
I read a really interesting post on a workaround to this problem. It was a post on this board - thread 429290 Page 1 Post 22.
The author suggested using SSH tunneling to reroute the traffic. Unfortunately I could only follow the instructions about half way. I followed the instructions ok up until he says "enter the Server that you are going to connect to. Im not sure if there are any free servers out there but its worth a try to look and see" Presumably this means the server i want to route through...or? Does anyone have any idea where I could find out if there's any servers out there that would allow you to route through them in this way?
Any suggestions here would be very helpful.
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Ofca
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Posted - 2008.01.24 07:00:00 -
[469]
I have such service ready for you and will help you with setup, my service is not free however (I mean, it's free $-wise, but not ISK-wise) - evemail me in game :)
Since SSH is used for remote access to somebody's machine, and it's resources - and you can abuse the machine itself, I don't see anyone giving out free ssh access.
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Zenith Bane
Intercommercial Aerospace Retail United Stations
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Posted - 2008.01.24 16:43:00 -
[470]
I posted my problem on the Tiscali forum last night in our dedicated thread and my post appears to be deleted and I don't seem to be able to log in properly, even though I'm getting the welcome message.
So thats their email and forum support useless, all thats left now is to be told it's not their fault over the phone.
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Mallikanth
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Posted - 2008.01.24 19:08:00 -
[471]
I would recommend ofca as a guy who can get you connected if you're stuck with Tiscali / Pipex like I was.
Good clear instructions and gets you sorted straight away.
Highly recommended.
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Hooch Flux
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.01.24 22:07:00 -
[472]
Waaahhhaaaaayyyy, I'm in the club! With Pipex and things have got really bad this week! Spoke to their Tech support droid and was told their is NO packet shaping or throttling going on, two of my mates who live in the same area code with Pipex have exactly the same problem, Pipex droid reckons that BT are doing maintenance on our exchange and it should be done tommorow, but somehow I doubt it!
I say prep for dustoff, nuke the site from orbit...
Only way to be sure! |
Deepsy
Caldari
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.01.24 22:47:00 -
[473]
Edited by: Deepsy on 24/01/2008 22:47:18
i'm a pipex user too and haven't been able to play between 4pm and midnight for the last few days including tonight :(
a bit fecked off with the whole thing, it's not just eve though, a certain hobbit populated ring fest doesn't let me connect either....
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Snaith
Minmatar
Bug Eyed Monsters
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Posted - 2008.01.25 14:26:00 -
[474]
Latest from Tiscali forum, plenty of links to it further up.
Quote
"Hi,
I know I haven't posted for a while, but I don't have any news for you at the moment. I know I've said this before and I'm going to say it again because all though you don't believe it, I know it's true: Our engineers are working to resolve this. The issue is not as simple as first thought and it is taking a lot longer then expected. All I can do is apologise for the delay.
Oh, and while I'm here, those of you that don't have tickets yet will do soon.
__________________
Regards
Brett
Technical Administrator
Tiscali UK LTD " End of quote.
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VelvetJones
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Posted - 2008.01.25 16:06:00 -
[475]
Logged MY crap with CISAS
http://www.cisas.org.uk/
Its ON!
Case 212081821 Childs v Tiscali UK LTD
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Klipp Pyro
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Posted - 2008.01.25 16:15:00 -
[476]
I am a Pipex Customer had the same problems since the 9th made around 4 calls and sent 2 e mails to them no replies to e mails yet one guy told ' why cant you play EVE in the morning?,but yeah they lie and i want to know where they live!also tech support is now 10p a minute or 5p if you have there phone package included.
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Kaloss
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Posted - 2008.01.25 20:02:00 -
[477]
Strangely tonight Eve is working but I now have zero confidence in it staying on - do I really want to play fleet battles with Tiscali reliability? I'll be monitoring this evening and over the weekend.
I'm now going through 9 hops instead of my previous 10 so they've removed one pipex hop from my route ~ the one that controls the traffic management? My download speed is also normal - this is looking less and less like a co-incidence.
The "our engineers are working on it - but its difficult" line frankly is old and worn out. They need to be taking a more pro-active approach either offering everyone affected their mac code or compensation. Alternatively they could just try telling us exactly what the problem is and the steps they are taking to fix it - they never know some of us may have a better idea as to their problem that they seem to have...
I'd tell all this to Pipex support but the best I've managed to get out of them in the last 16 days is confirmation of their support email address 
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Hooch Flux
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.01.26 00:57:00 -
[478]
Edited by: Hooch Flux on 26/01/2008 00:59:29
Originally by: Kaloss
Edited by: Kaloss on 25/01/2008 20:06:58
Strangely tonight Eve is working but I now have zero confidence in it staying on - do I really want to play fleet battles with Tiscali reliability? I'll be monitoring this evening and over the weekend.
I'm now going through 9 hops instead of my previous 10 so they've removed one pipex hop from my route ~ the one that controls the traffic management? My download speed is also normal - this is looking less and less like a co-incidence.
The "our engineers are working on it - but its difficult" line frankly is old and worn out. They need to be taking a more pro-active approach either offering everyone affected their mac code or compensation. Alternatively they could just try telling us exactly what the problem is and the steps they are taking to fix it - they never know some of us may have a better idea as to their problem that they seem to have...
I'd tell all this to Pipex support but the best I've managed to get out of them in the last 16 days is confirmation of their support email address
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Pipex Service 1/10, Pipex Customer Services 0/10, Pipex Sales... TBC
Just got home and did the same thing, can confirm 9 instead of the 10 from last night. Looks like they have definatly been doing something, my friend who is also in the same area code was on tonight during the normal bad time and he said he didn't have any probs tonight, so maybe they are starting to get the message (I hope). Have to see what happens though.
I say prep for dustoff, nuke the site from orbit...
Only way to be sure! |
Mallikanth
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Posted - 2008.01.26 07:59:00 -
[479]
Same for me. Pipex now works again with eve.
See my post Here
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Tropeza
Spartan Dynamics
Rally Against Evil
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Posted - 2008.01.26 15:54:00 -
[480]
Not to rain on anyones parade, but my connection to Eve was unchanged last night; down between 7-11PM. When I get connected I have zero confidence in it lasting so am severely restricted in what I can do. Basically it's just a glorified chat client at the moment. Naturally I'll post if this changes or if I have any updates on my dispute with Pipex.
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