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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 11 post(s)
Cpt Fina Insult to Injury	Posted - 2007.09.11 18:27:00 - [61] Originally by: Jinx Barker Originally by: Cpt Fina Originally by: CCP Prism X CCP Prism X Stuff Can one get isk removed for trades (in game transactions) with "known isk-sellers"? If so, will CCP make sure that the information about known isk-sellers are handed out to the community or are you expecting us to keep track of the isk-sellers in game? I think that what he meant was we just need to make sure we keep common sense about things. If someone buys a Torpedo from you for 3 Billion ISk, then this is a sign that things may not be kosher. Or if someone buys a Raven from you for 500 Million ISk, well, that is not Kosher either. But if I buy 500 million trit each week and it turns out to be from an isk-seller. Will CCP say it's common sense that anyone selling that much so often might be an isk-seller and that it is up to me to clarify? Or will CCP atleast give the me a warning before taking any actions so that I have a chance of stopping before it's too late?
Omega Sinner	Posted - 2007.09.11 18:54:00 - [62] I love how ppl automatically believe you've done something wrong. "they wouldn't do soemthing like this unless you did something wrong first and formost" Mistakes happen all the time but gm's removing stuff from players is wrong.. and for......""EXAMPLE""......AND ONLY AN """EXAMPLE""" if I setup a contract for 10 bill for any other item if someone is stupid enough to buy it for that price because they didn't pay proper attention then its there fault they baught it in the first place and even if it was a isk seller buying the item if I truly don't know this and was playing the saps on the market then I shouldn't have a gm coming along and removing stuff from me is I was legally playing the market scam.. people buy things in this game all the time for stupid prices and I know CCP holds that policy as part of the game dynamic's.... Gm's Shouldn't have the ability to access players banks or stations or anything else unless the player is first warned and they get a mail of some sort stating that the company is condoning this..
Futher Bezluden Minmatar ORIGIN SYSTEMS Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.11 18:54:00 - [63] Punishing players because some idiot bought their stuff with illegally acquired isk... Priceless. How the hell are we to know that things we sell are bought by isk buyers? When will CCP start taking mods/ships and minerals from people because the minerals were sold by macro-miners with the justification: "Dear Player, You Moros contains 1500 units of tritanium purchased from a macro-mining team. We have a strict anti-macro policy so your Moros has been deleted." -and right there in a pos siege, you are in a capsule. THUKKER -Be Paranoid
Brutor Shaun	Posted - 2007.09.11 19:00:00 - [64] Please continue this discussion in this thread I think this is compulsory for all threads at the moment. Bookmark Idea - My skills
Cpt Fina Insult to Injury	Posted - 2007.09.11 19:03:00 - [65] I also think that "use common sense" is way to vague as a guideline. Will CCP be able to claim that i lack common sense if I make a trade-deal with 500% profit? Give me a maximum profit percentage allowed on trading to insure that CCP don't take my money, please. How will scammers be able to go on with their business? Scam-deals don't make any sense; they are based on lazy people that aren't paying any attention. According to these guidelines, scammers will have no way of defending themselves as most of their transactions don't make any sense,
Boomershoot Caldari Insurgent New Eden Tribe	Posted - 2007.09.11 19:07:00 - [66] new suggestion: make a damn public list of known isk buyers/sellers or, more strict do not allow known isk buyer/seller to open up public contracts or, even more remove public contracts ----------------------------------------------- Forum Warfare - Rank (4) - Level V Forum Warfare Specialist - Rank (9) - Level III Armor Flame Compensation - Rank (5) - Level IV
CharlieMurphy Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.09.11 19:08:00 - [67] the farmers are the ones that should be getting banned CCP have shown they are able to track the movement of isk so why not track it back to the account that is actually producing it it cant be very hard to tell the difference between an honest player and a farming account tbh if all the farmers got banned every month they would soon give up and the whole isk for cash issue would mostly go away
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2007.09.11 19:12:00 - [68] Originally by: Cpt Fina Originally by: Jinx Barker Originally by: Cpt Fina Originally by: CCP Prism X CCP Prism X Stuff Can one get isk removed for trades (in game transactions) with "known isk-sellers"? If so, will CCP make sure that the information about known isk-sellers are handed out to the community or are you expecting us to keep track of the isk-sellers in game? I think that what he meant was we just need to make sure we keep common sense about things. If someone buys a Torpedo from you for 3 Billion ISk, then this is a sign that things may not be kosher. Or if someone buys a Raven from you for 500 Million ISk, well, that is not Kosher either. But if I buy 500 million trit each week and it turns out to be from an isk-seller. Will CCP say it's common sense that anyone selling that much so often might be an isk-seller and that it is up to me to clarify? No, but if you buy it for megacyte prices they may. ----- Visible Implants - good for so many occasions
Adeimantus Qir Elite Ops Mafia	Posted - 2007.09.11 19:16:00 - [69] Edited by: Adeimantus Qir on 11/09/2007 19:16:57 I made a thread about a time card I sold and got the isk taken away AND never got the time code back. (guy who bought the code used isk he had bought) When I made a big fuss on the forums a GM set my account to -2 bil and said then "you bought isk". That blew me away and like trying to fight an enemy i cant return fire on, decided to give up. Even if they were wrong or wrong. I would drop it and leave it alone before everyone of you gets punished like me. CCP owns the game we pay for and unltimately can do whatever they want with it. Thing that would make me less angry would be that the game should be free then and I wouldnt get so upset. There are isk sellers out there, even buddies maybe. (they will never tell you incase you guys part and youll rat on em) So how do you determine who is the isk sellers are? Who's buying with bought isk? How are they known and not banned? How could a "known" isk seller sell anything and be known and not stopped? Why isnt the buyer punished and the seller released of all hardship? well whatever im not saying anyhting in depth (wish i could) I am barely breathing as it is from the 2.21 billion loss. (which i never bought)
Cpt Fina Insult to Injury	Posted - 2007.09.11 19:18:00 - [70] Originally by: Adonis 4174 No, but if you buy it for megacyte prices they may. Where did you get that information?

CharlieMurphy Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.09.11 19:19:00 - [71] Edited by: CharlieMurphy on 11/09/2007 19:20:07 if there is any truth to Adeimantus Qirs post then that is absolutly shocking... internal affairs?
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2007.09.11 19:22:00 - [72] Edited by: Jinx Barker on 11/09/2007 19:24:00 Originally by: Adeimantus Qir I made a thread about a time card I sold and got the isk taken away AND never got the time code back. (guy who bought the code used isk he had bought) When I made a big fuss on the forums a GM set my account to -2 bil and said then "you bought isk". That blew me away and like trying to fight an enemy i cant return fire on, decided to give up. Even if they were wrong or wrong. I would drop it and leave it alone before everyone of you gets punished like me. CCP owns the game we play for and unltimately can do whatever they want with it. Thing that would make me less angry would be that the game should be free then and I wouldnt get so upset. There are isk sellers out there, even buddies maybe. (they will never tell you incase you guys part and youll rat on em) So how do you determine who is the isk sellers are? Who's buying with bought isk? How are they known and not banned? How could a "known" isk seller sell anything and be known and not stopped? Why isnt the buyer punished and the seller released of all hardship? well whatever im not saying anyhting in depth (wish i could) I am barely breathing as it is from the 2.21 billion loss. (which i never bought) What you saying is this: You Sold a GTC, followed all the posted rules, that govern GTC sales. Guy bought GTC from you, following all the prescribed rules. Guy used "Dirty ISK" CCP took away your ISK. CCP did not give you back a GTC. CCP Fined you 2.21 Billion ISK/For no other reason than... "You Bought ISK"? If the above is correct to a letter, than there is something wrong with the picture. Well, if you followed the rules, if you did everything legitimately, that was an asinine decision on the part of CCP. I would not have just stopped, and contacted IA, and had them look over the transactions and make a determination.
SPIONKOP Caldari Macabre Votum INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.09.11 19:23:00 - [73] Edited by: SPIONKOP on 11/09/2007 19:25:04 A friend of mine who has been ingame since launch lost 3.5bil when the GM's took it from his character and "accused" him of cheating. The loss of the 3.5bil was hard to take as he had not bought the ISK, however to be accused of cheating by some snotty nosed GM was way too much. Despite appeals to the so called senior GM's and the admission that they can't prove he bought the ISK he has still been found guilty without proof. He has cancelled his subs on his 2 accounts and will soon leave Eve for pastures new. I have written to CCP to back up my friend but I guess the email will fall of death ears. Nice One GM's. Another vet leaves the game. --------------------------------------------- Space For Rent. 100mil ISK/Week.
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2007.09.11 19:24:00 - [74] Originally by: Cpt Fina Originally by: Adonis 4174 No, but if you buy it for megacyte prices they may. Where did you get that information? From an isk seller. I doubt I can say more but for the record I know they got reported shortly before I found they existed. ----- Visible Implants - good for so many occasions
Lugburz	Posted - 2007.09.11 19:25:00 - [75] Surely if you just sold it to a known isk seller...well..um... why didnt they deactivate the sellers account?
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.09.11 19:27:00 - [76] if this is true then thats really reaaally bad! I mean i sell a few BS now and then, so if i put up a buncha BS on market for say 100 mill each, iskseller/buyer/macroer comes along and buys me bs, then gm comes along, removes isk from my wallet and does not return my bs? WTF is up with that? if it were, remove isk and return item then i'd say ok, thats fair, i can atleast try to sell the bs to a genuine customer. but why punish someone who has no idea, worse still, who is not doing anything wrong??? Would be nice if someone from ccp clarifies this. CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
Donna Maria Amarr	Posted - 2007.09.11 19:31:00 - [77] Hmm, sounds like the war on drugs in the US. Instead of stopping the supplier, target the buyer. Because the supplier is beneficial and harder to stop. ISK selling is big business, thats why there are businesses devoted to making ISK available for sale. For CCP to stop ISK selling, targeting those that supply the ISK (And obviously pay to be in game and likely pay large amounts for multiple accounts) would hurt more than targeting those end users that are stupid/bold enough to try to avoid detection just to purchase 'ISK'. Conspiracy? Im the girl momma warned you about..
Cpt Fina Insult to Injury	Posted - 2007.09.11 19:34:00 - [78] Originally by: Adonis 4174 Originally by: Cpt Fina Originally by: Adonis 4174 No, but if you buy it for megacyte prices they may. Where did you get that information? From an isk seller. I doubt I can say more but for the record I know they got reported shortly before I found they existed. My point was that a sane price for some people isn't sane for others. If CCP tell us that "as long as we use our common sense you're ok" they can pretty much remove isk from whoever they like whenever they want.
Adeimantus Qir Elite Ops Mafia	Posted - 2007.09.11 19:35:00 - [79] I made a fuss and not only lost time card and isk......... they took all the other isk in my account too plus 2+bil isk. (I said some harsh things in my time code thread) So i guess thats how they got back at me.
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.09.11 19:36:00 - [80] Originally by: 000Hunter000 if this is true then thats really reaaally bad! I mean i sell a few BS now and then, so if i put up a buncha BS on market for say 100 mill each, iskseller/buyer/macroer comes along and buys me bs, then gm comes along, removes isk from my wallet and does not return my bs? WTF is up with that? if it were, remove isk and return item then i'd say ok, thats fair, i can atleast try to sell the bs to a genuine customer. but why punish someone who has no idea, worse still, who is not doing anything wrong??? Would be nice if someone from ccp clarifies this. Your only problem is if a ISK seller buys one of your BS for 1000 mill instead of 100 mill. Just keep an eye out for outragous sales. If there are any, petition the buyer. A GM will then decide if the buyer made a legit mistake and you can keep the ISK, or if the buyer is dirty and the ISK and buyer should be removed from the game. In the later case, you should get to keep either your ship or 100 mill. I have not heard of anyone who has followed the rules and not been a scammer get hit by the GM's. As Prism said, the GM's understand the concept of reasonable doubt. They also know how ISK buyers/sellers will work together to launder their transactions. Keep you books clean and you have nothing to fear. ************************** Ki Tech Industries - Bond Offer

Adonis 4174	Posted - 2007.09.11 19:37:00 - [81] Originally by: Cpt Fina Originally by: Adonis 4174 Originally by: Cpt Fina Originally by: Adonis 4174 No, but if you buy it for megacyte prices they may. Where did you get that information? From an isk seller. I doubt I can say more but for the record I know they got reported shortly before I found they existed. My point was that a sane price for some people isn't sane for others. If CCP tell us that "as long as we use our common sense you're ok" they can pretty much remove isk from whoever they like whenever they want. I think the actual reference was selling single units of trit for billions of isk. Can that be a sane price for anyone? ----- Visible Implants - good for so many occasions
Omega Sinner	Posted - 2007.09.11 19:38:00 - [82] There has been market scamming going on in this game from before I started 2 years ago. So now for gm's all of a sudden start removing items and isk from players selling things on market or contract legit or scamming the ppl who are just not paying attention after they have already taken the stance market scamming such as setting up a sale for 1 trit and trying to sell it as something else in the description was part of the game dynamics.. By saying there being baught by known isk sellers is still wrong..again players will not ever know who's a seller or a buyer unless told by that player that they are one or the other.. Take first ask questions later is a wrong stance to have that is how you lose players cause we all know who long ccp can take to get back to you.. and when you hear something you don't want to after waiting for how ever long it might have been then your ****ed and will leave this game..
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.09.11 19:43:00 - [83] Originally by: Omega Sinner There has been market scamming going on in this game from before I started 2 years ago. So now for gm's all of a sudden start removing items and isk from players selling things on market or contract legit or scamming the ppl who are just not paying attention after they have already taken the stance market scamming such as setting up a sale for 1 trit and trying to sell it as something else in the description was part of the game dynamics.. By saying there being baught by known isk sellers is still wrong..again players will not ever know who's a seller or a buyer unless told by that player that they are one or the other.. Take first ask questions later is a wrong stance to have that is how you lose players cause we all know who long ccp can take to get back to you.. and when you hear something you don't want to after waiting for how ever long it might have been then your **ed and will leave this game.. Scamming has been in the game since it was made, and continues today. However, scamming is a risky business these days. If you scam a legit sucker, then lucky you. If you "scam" and ISK seller, then not so lucky for you. Odds are high that ISK sellers aren't falling for scams by accident, and the GM's know this. If you pull of a successful 1 trit for 100 mill scam, then petition the sucker. GM's don't care if you scam within the rules, but if you try to using scamming to scam the rules they will take you down. ************************ Ki Tech Industries - Bond Offer
Brock McF Caldari Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.09.11 19:44:00 - [84] I don't honestly think CCP is out to screw over the innocent. I do agree with monitoring large isk transfers. There are still too many ways for isk sellers/buyers to get away with spending illicit isk. I dont know how hard it is to differentiate between innocent party and guilty party. But I think most of these threads are started by people who feel they did not have a proper pipe of communication with CCP or are just whining because they were at fault. Personally when I was accused, it was quite hard to find the correct pipe, was it an exploit petition or ... etc etc which I hope CCP has changed with the support upgrades. Yes CCP are people too and mistakes happen, but remember just because you are a GM doesnt mean you are right always (Double edged sword :P). Ultimately, the forums are a perfect place to discuss this sort of stuff, but not a place for accusations. However this thread begs the question, "Perhaps we are still lacking a sufficient communication channel?" Brock
Cpt Fina Insult to Injury	Posted - 2007.09.11 19:47:00 - [85] Originally by: Adonis 4174 Originally by: Cpt Fina Originally by: Adonis 4174 Originally by: Cpt Fina Originally by: Adonis 4174 No, but if you buy it for megacyte prices they may. Where did you get that information? From an isk seller. I doubt I can say more but for the record I know they got reported shortly before I found they existed. My point was that a sane price for some people isn't sane for others. If CCP tell us that "as long as we use our common sense you're ok" they can pretty much remove isk from whoever they like whenever they want. I think the actual reference was selling single units of trit for billions of isk. Can that be a sane price for anyone? How is that anything different from the common and sanctioned trade of scamming? If I find out that there's an extreme demand for Scorpions in a system and that people are more than willing to pay 3 billion isk each for them, should I pass up on that because CCP might think the deals is dirty? Should we allow the isk-sellers to have such a great impact on the players? And there's no such thing as sane and insane by default. Is it sane to buy a shuttle for 18k instead of 9k 1 jump away? Some don't think so, others do. That's why CCP need to give us clear guidelines for people, who don't want their wallets erased, to follow.
Eulalinda	Posted - 2007.09.11 20:00:00 - [86] Edited by: Eulalinda on 11/09/2007 19:59:53 Originally by: Svavz Originally by: Kuolematon So CCP has a brand new policy: You have market sell orders or contract up. Someone buys stuff from you or gets your contract. Then few hours later GM rips off your ISK leaving you WITHOUT your recently sold STUFF and ISK while saying that buyer was KNOWN ISK BUYER/SELLER. Oh the joy. I won't be putting up and sell orders anymore because you will get buthfuksored by nice CCP GM's. This thread (because Its not the first time I've heard this happening) is certainly make me reconsider selling things... Same here. Can you imagine the police coming to you after you sold your house and saying "Sorry Mister. The buyer is a wanted felon for counterfeit money. We're taking your money you got for your house AND we're keeping your house." wtf??
Omega Sinner	Posted - 2007.09.11 20:04:00 - [87] Originally by: Cynical Attitude Quote: for example "For example" just doesn't cut it for the kind of accusation you're making. Prove that the situation you're implying happened is what actually happened and Eve is dead as noone can safely use the market or contracts any more. If you can't prove it, or that isn't what happened, then what is your point? if you actualy put the rest of the for example and only example in your quote your point wouldn't be moot.
Adeimantus Qir Elite Ops Mafia	Posted - 2007.09.11 20:10:00 - [88] The responses I got after waiting dayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyys was not proof I asked for, yet simply "you did it". So after 4 petitions in a gentleman scripted manor, I gave up and realized they do what they want and determine the result of whatever they want the result to be instead of what it may be or IS.
Decision Process	Posted - 2007.09.11 20:13:00 - [89] Quote: if you actualy put the rest of the for example Well, it came straight from your original post, which should have been on your screen as you were replying anyway. Quote: for example player sells rattlesnake on open contract other player buys it gm comes along says it was sold to a known isk seller and takes the isk he just got for the ship But the original quote is irrelevant to my point - which is that you haven't provided enough information to prove your version of events or to establish any kind of credibility. If a GM has good reason to believe that someone is involved in the laundering of bought ISK, then I support their actions.
BoBoZoBo Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.09.11 20:15:00 - [90] If this is going on its pretty fuked up. How are we supposed to know if we buy something from an illegal ISK seller? I can see the slight line of logic. I mean, if I were an ISK seller I would try to launder the money that way. But if they don't wanna loose peeps they better prove it. ========================= Minister of Propaganda* - Operator 9



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