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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Omega Sinner
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Posted - 2007.09.13 03:13:00 -
[271]
 Originally by:
Quote:
It isn't blatant abuse of GM power, abuse would indicate GM's would do it to futher their own goals, they aren't doing that but instead they are just following work procedures.
but if a procedure indicates that players are suffering great losses with no validation.and are suffering for it with no compensation or fixing the problem it is abuse of the consumer when there is no warranted means to do so and its done on a possibilaty of wrong doing..
like the old saying shoot first ask questions later..but that gets you knowhere but with more problems..
do it enough and your left with nothing but wondering why you can't get out..
because you've shot some of those that could have helped you and chased everybody else away for fear of being shot..
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RedLion
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.09.13 03:19:00 -
[272]
GM's should support, not ban! :P
But what can we expect? We pay to a mysterious icelandic company for something we can't controle.
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The Gallenteans must be destroyed
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Devian 666
Sectoid Technologies
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Posted - 2007.09.13 03:45:00 -
[273]
All I can say is this. If you bunch of moaners were my clients I would decline work from you.
If you have an issue with your isk being taken by a GM contact CCP as moaning without giving full details is pointless and achieves nothing.
If a mistake has occurred contact CCP. Be polite and ask for escalation. Not explaining the problem clearly and being abusive doesn't help you to recover anything.
A dev has offered to help the op why not contact the dev as instructed and tell us the results of this investigation. If you don't contact the dev then you have no sympathy from anyone.
For all the people panicing you should perhaps consider that in fact nothing has happend to you so why are you panicing?
I agree I don't have the features to be a holoreel star.
Most people have missed the point that this is Mobsters Online and that carebears are at the bottom of the foodchain. |
Zaferia
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Posted - 2007.09.13 04:27:00 -
[274]
[quote\]If you have an issue with your isk being taken by a GM contact CCP as moaning without giving full details is pointless and achieves nothing.
Read the first post on this page you'll see that issue has been explained and that the Dev was sent the information that he requested in previous posts.
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Devian 666
Sectoid Technologies
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Posted - 2007.09.13 04:33:00 -
[275]
Edited by: Devian 666 on 13/09/2007 04:33:28
Originally by: Zaferia
[quote\]If you have an issue with your isk being taken by a GM contact CCP as moaning without giving full details is pointless and achieves nothing.
Read the first post on this page you'll see that issue has been explained and that the Dev was sent the information that he requested in previous posts.
You should read the thread prior to posting as there is a Dev response in this thread. You may also note that the first post on this page is not the OP.
I agree I don't have the features to be a holoreel star.
Most people have missed the point that this is Mobsters Online and that carebears are at the bottom of the foodchain. |
Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
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Posted - 2007.09.13 04:33:00 -
[276]
So where'd the faction BS come from?
Improve Market Competition!
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Zaferia
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Posted - 2007.09.13 04:52:00 -
[277]
You should read the thread prior to posting as there is a Dev response in this thread. You may also note that the first post on this page is not the OP.
No your right it's not the OP, but the post at the top of the page is the alt of the affected said toon that the op was talking about, and the op did say he sent the info that was requested to the dev.
I'm sorry I should have posted it this way the first time to avoid confusion
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Devian 666
Sectoid Technologies
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Posted - 2007.09.13 04:56:00 -
[278]
Originally by: Zaferia
You should read the thread prior to posting as there is a Dev response in this thread. You may also note that the first post on this page is not the OP.
No your right it's not the OP, but the post at the top of the page is the alt of the affected said toon that the op was talking about, and the op did say he sent the info that was requested to the dev.
I'm sorry I should have posted it this way the first time to avoid confusion
Ok understood. Needs to go to Dev in this thread for investigation.
I don't think anyone needs to have their isk taken if they're innocent. I do think there needs to be a clear process to allow people to establish innocence. Now's it's over to the Dev.
I agree I don't have the features to be a holoreel star.
Most people have missed the point that this is Mobsters Online and that carebears are at the bottom of the foodchain. |
Grawshellar
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Posted - 2007.09.13 05:02:00 -
[279]
Originally by: Devian 666
Now's it's over to the Dev.
The worst part is the waiting... now I'm horribly interested to find out whats the scoop.
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Usarua
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Posted - 2007.09.13 05:46:00 -
[280]
simple, just never sell anything on the market or use contracts again, until all the isk sellers leave.
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SuicidalMerchant
Republic University
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Posted - 2007.09.13 06:37:00 -
[281]
Hopefully PrismX will investigate that guy's issue at the top there. If its found that the GM banned a guy for selling a legally acquired faction BS at market value on a public contract, that GM should have to face playing the game until he has access to level 4 agents. You know, so he actually understands the frikkin basics.
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Usarua
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Posted - 2007.09.13 07:18:00 -
[282]
to me, the anti-isk seller pitchfork and torches mob seems like a lot of overblown reaction, such as to the supposed "necro posting".
About isk sellers. the market and contracts work based on players. they put in, they take out. ISK sellers usually have a supply of ISK either from creating market buys for extremely low price and marking them up for huge gains when people would rather sell them than reprocess or ask for a reasonable price (so its lazy people that support ISK sellers  ), or they have a supply of isk from farmers. ISK farmers get isk the same way as everyone else, by massive mining ops or mission or rat runs. what happens when you take out ISK farmers? you remove those people, and the ones who would've been future isk buyers are now farming for their own isk instead, the same job. also consider that isk sellers and isk farmers need paid accounts to use. so CCP does still make money, and in fact, the isk sellers and farmers are really only inflating the player base and economy the same as having real players doing it all themselves instead of to sell to other players for money. this is not the problem. the real problem with isk sellers is that they allow people to jump ahead in the game and they make a profit off of CCPs property and at the same time giving real world value to the game, and making money of other's copyrighted material is internationally illegal, at least where countries agree. for the ones that dont recognize this and take their own internal measures against these groups and people, that seems irresponsible enough to create embargoes against them.
Since it takes isk sellers time and hard work, I'm actually sympathetic, but I still think they should be removed. if you think about it, the vehement outcries and constant complaints are likely what is prompting CCP to take such quick and harsh action that it also effects players. You all complain so much, and deluge the forums and petitions with complaints, that CCP would be accused of not doing anything if they didnt react quickly. they do, and they get accused of this stuff. You cant have it both ways, and I prefer it to be done right, so let CCP handle the isk sellers and simply block their conversation in game, im quite sure they can easily detect sellers and get rid of them themselves, we dont need 150k people sending them petitions and forum or email complaints all at once. hmm perhaps thats creating undue lag on the servers? So, Id personally rather CCP take a little longer to get rid of them, and all the trouble they caused, while still protecting the innocent and giving them back what was lost, rather than moving too quickly because of the QQ rain.
if you're interested in my views of necro posting. Im amused when a thread gets locked because someone responded to it after the last response was 1 month to a year old. This thread then simply gets replaced by a new one of the same topic. I enjoy hearing the complaints about how theres so many "this kind of topic" threads constantly, or so many "that kind of topic" threads. Dont you think if people are creating threads similar to old ones, having one page of threads each 100 pages long so that anyone can read everyones views and make arguments all in one neat little thread, rather than having to make new ones that start the debate from the beginning again, and continue until the cycle repeats, is more efficient for server use and for looking for threads on particular topics? I dont really care about anyones argument against "necro posting" since if there's something of value or some new information that changes it, its far better to deal with it on a thread that was already created for it, than a new thred. I highly doubt necro posting was supposed to go as far as knee jerk lock and flame responses for anyone who posts anything in an older thread. in fact, I consider that the original definition of necro poster is someone who spams a post or puts meaningless content in it just to bump it
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Usarua
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Posted - 2007.09.13 07:19:00 -
[283]
to the top without adding value to it. and thats always against the forum rules, so it should be deleted and the results reversed. but thats just how I feel about that, not really going to change my mind based on anyones arguments.
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CharlieMurphy
Amarr
Viziam
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Posted - 2007.09.13 08:25:00 -
[284]
im taking your post at face value when i say this omax1 but i think thats a sad sitation for you and frankly i dont know how CCP could ever lose interest to the point that GMs can run rampant like that
after having to deal with GMs myself i have no faith in them whatsoever and truly beleive that they have no real interest in the players they deal with
when this thread started i would have said it was out of the question for a GM to rob a player like that and maybe even pocket the isk themself but as more and more people seem to be comming forward with similar tails it makes you wonder
Originally by: CCP Prism X
But that's why we have watchers who watch the watchers).
your talking about a system where the people who are handing out the punishments are the exact same people you have to ask to reconsider
who are GMs really accountable to? if i dont like the response i get i can ask for another GM and a new name materialises but i dont really know if its a different person or not
the idea of "escalating" petitions is nice enough and no doubt a comfort to people that have faith in the system but what does it really mean ? IA sounds all well and good but is it really anything more than a new name for the same failing system?
from personal experience i know that when you wont accept the response your given and you ask for a senior GM to look at the petition you can be put on hold for months
in omax1s case months of waiting is rather damaging to his gaming experience (like having billions wrongly removed for even a few days wasnt bad enough)
i wonder if it turns out that he didnt buy isk or knowingly trade with a "known seller" - who shouldnt even be in the game - will CCP be refunding him with some free game time?
banning the the farmers is the only solution to isk selling, you can pull up weeds from your garden again and again but they will keep returning until you poison the root
how much do you really care CCP?
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RedLion
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.09.13 08:45:00 -
[285]
Edited by: RedLion on 13/09/2007 08:47:03
Well, what CCP says and what CCP does could be 2 different things:
Officially there is no doubt that any MMORPG company gains from having an anti RMT policy.
My impression is that other mmorpg developers (such as Blizzard) does not punish buyers, as they know they lose customers then.
I don't know what CCP does to people who buy ISK, or how big this problem is. But it looks to me that you can pay all from $5 to $hundreds for isk. Now if people use $5 on isk, and CCP take so strong action against the people who did it, that they lose customers... Well it's abit strange. CCP rather lose like $150 a year to punish people who buy isk for $5?
Economics and EVE is kinda the same thing. In eve you need to break the tank of the other ship, so it's the relative dps that matters. Same with IRL and economics. CCP have more or less the same expenses. As the variable expenses for each new subscription is really low. So I wonder how serious CCP is about punishing people involved in RMT. I don't expect any correct answer on this will come from official hold though.
BTW I agree with with CharlieMurphy, the whole "Watch the watcher" thing is flawed. But as I said in my previous post somewhere....
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The Gallenteans must be destroyed
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RedLion
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.09.13 08:52:00 -
[286]
Edited by: RedLion on 13/09/2007 08:54:00
Another fun thing to ask is,
If people get 1 billion isk for free from someone, they get punished by CCP, however the only thing that stands in EULA is:
Quote:
B. Selling Items and Objects
You may not transfer, sell or auction, or buy or accept any offer to transfer, sell or auction (or offer to do any of the foregoing), any content appearing within the Game environment, including without limitation characters, character attributes, items, currency, and objects, other than via a permitted Character Transfer as described in section 3 above. You may not encourage or induce any other person to participate in such a prohibited transaction. The buying, selling or auctioning (or any attempt at doing so) of characters, character attributes, items, currency, or objects, whether through online auctions (such as ebay), newsgroups, postings on message boards or any other means is prohibited by the EULA and a violation of CCP's proprietary rights in the Game.
So if you get 1 bill isk from someone and spend it, it should be CCPs problem and not yours.
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The Gallenteans must be destroyed
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Omega Sinner
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Posted - 2007.09.13 09:05:00 -
[287]
Edited by: Omega Sinner on 13/09/2007 09:07:58
to early in the morning need sleep...
Still waiting on reply from prisim x will be posted as soon as one is heard....
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Cornucopian
Gallente
Dutch Omega
United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.13 09:06:00 -
[288]
Originally by: RedLion
Edited by: RedLion on 13/09/2007 08:54:00
Another fun thing to ask is,
If people get 1 billion isk for free from someone, they get punished by CCP, however the only thing that stands in EULA is:
Quote:
B. Selling Items and Objects
You may not transfer, sell or auction, or buy or accept any offer to transfer, sell or auction (or offer to do any of the foregoing), any content appearing within the Game environment, including without limitation characters, character attributes, items, currency, and objects, other than via a permitted Character Transfer as described in section 3 above. You may not encourage or induce any other person to participate in such a prohibited transaction. The buying, selling or auctioning (or any attempt at doing so) of characters, character attributes, items, currency, or objects, whether through online auctions (such as ebay), newsgroups, postings on message boards or any other means is prohibited by the EULA and a violation of CCP's proprietary rights in the Game.
So if you get 1 bill isk from someone and spend it, it should be CCPs problem and not yours.
so basically were ****** either way? if someone decides to by my megathron in deep 0.0 voor a billion, I loose the billion as well as my megathron. CCP rulez! way to go. why not just reset everyones wallet to 0 ? that would be a much faster way to kill all the isk sellers and macroers: that way you get a 100% coverage on them.
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"post with your main. delete your alt, you sad little exploiting metagamer."
Originally by: Royaldo
complete win by Cornucopian!
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w0rmy
M. Corp
M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.09.13 09:07:00 -
[289]
Originally by: CCP Prism X
I'll have a topic to link to every time this is posted to show our good intentions in action.
I'm still not saying we don't do mistakes. I'm saying we mean well. Everyone does mistakes. I just did a huge mistake by posting this offer so I'm living proof. I'm just saying we're ready to admit it and work it out. M'kay?
Good intentions mean jack, if when those intentions are put into action, theyre put into action so poorly.
Everyone makes mistakes, except when mistakes are made in eve it is only your customers who suffer.
Your GM department takes a 'Guilty untill he proves himself innocent' policy, I've lost count of the number of times friends have had their accounts suspended for "I dont even know why I am banned! All 5 of my accounts, I cant log in to find out why, the website isnt working properly and CCP's mailserver is RBL'd again!!!! Anyone got a GM on msn???"
Im sure bush has the best of intentions too!
Originally by: CCP Oveur
I'm very sorry w0rmy, I beg your forgiveness.
Originally by: Dianabolic
I was never sworn to secrecy, w0rmy, sorry to dissappoint you.
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Matata Hakuna
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Posted - 2007.09.13 09:08:00 -
[290]
This reminds me of the CCP name screwup. They just went on name-changing rampage without consulting anyone.
CCP is still very immature company in terms or customer relations. What they fail to realise is that customer is the king and they should be eternaly gratefull to all of their paying customers. Very often they act as if we should be the gratefull ones for being allowed to play their mother-of-all-games.
It is better to let 5 isk sellers unpunished then to punish an innocent and honest player.
Sometimes I wonder why do we even bother trying to save EVE from all of CCP screwups.
And yes, their current strategy on dealing with isk sellers is just plain retarted.
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Omega Sinner
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Posted - 2007.09.13 09:11:00 -
[291]
Roflmfaro...I love that post...too true...
like he said intention may be good but really there only intentions..and when put in to poor practice then there nolonger good intentions are they....
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Laboratus
Gallente
BGG
League of Abnormal Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.09.13 09:11:00 -
[292]
I have to say I have recieved better service from CCP than any other MMO company.
___
P.S.
Post with your main.
Mind control and tin hats |
RedLion
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.09.13 09:13:00 -
[293]
Well I think we customers should have the right to:
1. Not be framed for anything we haven't done, whatsoever.
2. Be reimbursed for all items lost due to CCP bugs.
I don't support isk selling, but heck, I rather allow it than getting innocent people pay for icelandic fail(tm).
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The Gallenteans must be destroyed
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w0rmy
M. Corp
M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.09.13 09:14:00 -
[294]
Originally by: Matata Hakuna
This reminds me of the CCP name screwup. They just went on name-changing rampage without consulting anyone.
Ahhh yes, and the changing of some corps names...
That was all handled so brilliantly 
Originally by: CCP Oveur
I'm very sorry w0rmy, I beg your forgiveness.
Originally by: Dianabolic
I was never sworn to secrecy, w0rmy, sorry to dissappoint you.
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Omega Sinner
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Posted - 2007.09.13 09:14:00 -
[295]
not me mine hasn't been all bad but I've gotten way better service out of other mmo's which will remain nameless 
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RedLion
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.09.13 09:18:00 -
[296]
Originally by: Laboratus
I have to say I have recieved better service from CCP than any other MMO company.
Many people say WoW has bad support. Well shoot me if I'm wrong but:
CCP don't have phone support.
CCP have 20 times slower GM response than Blizzard.
CCPs GMs are not customer orientated.
CCP does not protect the individual player/character.
NO doubt there still is service provided from CCP. And some GMs are doing a great job, but that CCPs support is better than any other mmorpg company.. Well it's hard to get an objective discussion here, it will only get painted by fanbois.
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The Gallenteans must be destroyed
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CCP Prism X
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Posted - 2007.09.13 09:21:00 -
[297]
Omega, can you please post the relevant information here. I saw it was already posted yesterday but now that I'm no longer trying to sleep it's gone. Mailing it to Kieron or Wrangler would be the proper way to go about things after the second petition but there is no point in mailing to them since we're already going well beyond the scope of our process by involving me.
~ Prism X
Relocating your character to a cozy, giant secure container since 2006. |
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Cornucopian
Gallente
Dutch Omega
United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.13 09:52:00 -
[298]
Originally by: RedLion
Originally by: Laboratus
I have to say I have recieved better service from CCP than any other MMO company.
Many people say WoW has bad support. Well shoot me if I'm wrong but:
CCP don't have phone support.
CCP have 20 times slower GM response than Blizzard.
CCPs GMs are not customer orientated.
CCP does not protect the individual player/character.
NO doubt there still is service provided from CCP. And some GMs are doing a great job, but that CCPs support is better than any other mmorpg company.. Well it's hard to get an objective discussion here, it will only get painted by fanbois.
agreed. I dont think CCP needs phone support though: that usually devolves into something like, 'we cannot help you but are very sorry, now **** off, and have a nice day!'
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"post with your main. delete your alt, you sad little exploiting metagamer."
Originally by: Royaldo
complete win by Cornucopian!
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CCP Prism X
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Posted - 2007.09.13 15:46:00 -
[299]
Well this backfired big time. Here I was hoping I could show how much we care by helping out a player in need and get the protocols revised some for good measures. 
I still cannot divulge any information about our methods. I'm bound by NDAs to not release any information that could be considered confidential information. This leads me to believe that you are all going to hate me from this day forward. 
Fact of the matter is the contract the OP mentions was never reversed.
The reason for this loss ISK from the character in question was due to a considerable player donation, from a known and banned ISK seller, which occurred before said contract. Coincidentally that was the exact same amount as the contract in question yielded the player in question which created this misunderstanding. Further investigation into this matter revealed even further connections with known, and already banned, ISK sellers and we acted on that according to our protocols.
I'm absolutely certain that Sinner, and Sheylyn, acted on the best of intentions on behalf of their friend and I can only assume they didn't possess this information beforehand. However, this case is as blatant as they come. There's no doubt when we're talking about such sums of ISK repeatedly donated from known sellers (and let me state again that known ISK sellers are banned once they become known).
If the character in question is unhappy with this resolution he will have to go through the correct channels like everyone else and I will stay true to my promise of never doing this again as it really didn't have the results I had hoped for. Results aside I have lived up to my promise so from my end the matter is dead.
~ Prism X
EvE Lead Database Developer,
Relocating your character to a cozy, giant secure container since 2006. |
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GM Nova
Game Masters
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Posted - 2007.09.13 15:50:00 -
[300]
Omega wanted a public inquiry, here it is.
His "friend" bought ISK for real money and got busted and that ISK was removed. Looking at his "friend's" wallet more closely we discovered that he had bought over ten billion ISK and thanks to Omega, his "friend" has received a two week vacation from EVE and a hefty negative balance.
No market transaction was reversed nor any contract. In fact, we simply do not do that, unless an ISK seller accepts a one trit contract for a billion ISK.
This sort of slander, misinformation and outright lies is sickening.
Who of you reading this like receiving ISK seller mails? Who likes to see "Hello friend, visit www.idiotiskbuyersareus.com for cheap ISK" mails in chat channels? Well you can thank Omega Sinner and his "friend" for that spam since by buying ISk they are directly responsible for it.
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