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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 11 post(s)
Vrizuh Caldari	Posted - 2007.09.12 04:13:00 - [121] Edited by: Vrizuh on 12/09/2007 04:13:21 Oh this is gonna be fun. PrismX and that female dev who does the drone regions are my fav devs. EDIT: more respectful
An Anarchyyt Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.09.12 04:20:00 - [122] Originally by: Vrizuh PrismX and that female dev who does the drone regions are my fav devs. EDIT: more respectful Prism is my favorite Dev too. Even if he nerfed his avatar. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
RedLion Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.12 04:37:00 - [123] Dear Prism X (I hope you read this): I don't know what logic CCP follows. But isn't it better to let 10 people go unpunished than punish an innocent person? On another topic: Do you find it strange that people buy ISK? I didn't know it was illegal for a longtime. Because I thought the GTC trading was kinda like allowing RMT. And people are spammed about buying isk, from the rookie channels, into the recruitment channels, into locals or what not.... I mean, how can people know it's illegal? It's not like everyone who install a software nowadays read all the wall of text in the installing process. I mean, if I didn't know buying isk was illegal and first lost my bought isk then the same amount additional, i would be pretty ****ed of. If you don't stop isk spam, you should not be so strict penalizing people who buy isk, because I believe there are people buying isk in good belief. though I have no idea how many people you penalize for buying isk compared to the real money of isk buyers.. On another topic, but it's still GM contact. Some days ago I lost like 400 mill worth of stuff (almost all my assets) due to a game bug. I know it was a game bug, but the GM who served me copy pasted some standard answer about he couldn't find it in the logs. Ofc I reopened my petition, but I mean, if now in the closest days a senior GM are lazy and don't do their job either, what can I do then? I know it was a bug, but what can I do? Keep on petitioning and petitioning? Or maybe stop subscribing on EVE? - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The Gallenteans must be destroyed - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Nyphur Pillowsoft Total Comfort	Posted - 2007.09.12 05:28:00 - [124] Originally by: RedLion Dear Prism X (I hope you read this): I don't know what logic CCP follows. But isn't it better to let 10 people go unpunished than punish an innocent person? They don't punish inno-- aw forget it, this just isn't getting through to people. Christ. Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Sabiokah	Posted - 2007.09.12 05:38:00 - [125] Edited by: Sabiokah on 12/09/2007 05:38:29 Actually, catching isk sellers is pretty easy. Buy isk on one site. Go in game, make the transaction, then "steal" the account. Then check all communication and examine logs on who is giving money to sellers. Then revoke the credit card transaction.
zincol S.A.S Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.09.12 06:02:00 - [126] A fellow corp m8 of mine had 30bil taken from him over 3 accounts leaving him -30bil isk gms would not give a straight answer. he has now left the game closing 4 accounts total. ccp suck.
Vilis Meretrix	Posted - 2007.09.12 06:12:00 - [127] The biggest problem with punishing ISK buyer is that it ALWAYS leads to a bad end for CCP. John_Doe buys ISK. John_Doe gets caught and punished John_Doe gets angry and quits, blaming CCP rather then admitting to buying ISK to his friends. Quiting is accompanied by a*****-and-bull story about how CCP messed up. Friends of John_Doe believe him. Therefore CCP is the bad guy. This post not aimed at anyone in particular, or any particular example. Just seems to be a common occurrence.
Mr Billybob Caldari Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.09.12 06:29:00 - [128] i think they are taking the easy way out of solving isk selling and decided to damage the honest players -------------------------------------------- grrrrr
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.09.12 06:30:00 - [129] Quote: I don't know what logic CCP follows. But isn't it better to let 10 people go unpunished than punish an innocent person? Don't know about you, but I think it's better to punish those 10 people and risk that one is 'innocent' as you put, and undo any 'bad' you've done to that person if possible. In this sort of case, the 'bad' is easily undone. So yeah, it's better to punish 10 and sweep up someone who wasn't deserving of it in the process. Personally, I'm surprised that this topic is still going. I've caught up with what people are saying, and the only reason this could actually have been an ISK Buyer caught out has not been debunked. Once again, for anyone who read me making this claim eariler, I'm not going to post how you'd do it, because it's a step-by-step to breaching the EULA, if you don't realise how this could be done, you should probably think before you hit the reply button to this topic again. And until my private little theory is debunked, I'm not going to believe one bit of the "zomg ccp lining their own characters pockets" rubbish. It's against CCP's policies to reveal any investigation details, and the OP has no need to tell us the truth or otherwise, so everyone's hands are tied in terms of recieving a proper answer. Improve Market Competition!
Bizz Lizz	Posted - 2007.09.12 07:21:00 - [130] @Prism X Good posts, but like you said yourself, people make mistakes. I hope that those people, who investigate in such cases, don't forget that, if someone complains. There is not much more annoying than dealing with customer support, if they think they are right and 'block' right from the beginning without listening to the customer. Yes, I've had some trouble once, not with EVE GMs though, on an occasion that doesn't matter here. In short: Got a temp ban for something based on wrong assumptions, then a perma ban for complaining and trying to prove my point. After that I ran against a wall for like 10 days and then I actually found someone, who listened, noticed that their decision was a mistake and removed the ban in no-time. I was happy and felt glad, but exausted and if someone had taken me seriously in the beginning instead of issuing a perma ban for me trying to communicate and prove my point, it would have been easier. So yes that's why I always feel with people now, who are punished somehow and then all communications stops without listening to them. People deserve to get heard, although it's usually not granted by the EULAs.

Nyphur Pillowsoft Total Comfort	Posted - 2007.09.12 07:37:00 - [131] Originally by: Mr Billybob i think they are taking the easy way out of solving isk selling and decided to damage the honest players Oh yeah, obviously CCP has decided that instead of banning isk-buyers and isk-sellers, they're going to ban random honest players that did nothing wrong. What are you smoking? Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened.
Imperius Blackheart Caldari Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.12 08:04:00 - [132] Prism X, you sir quite frankly are awesome.
Vele Nori Amarr	Posted - 2007.09.12 09:21:00 - [133] Edited by: Vele Nori on 12/09/2007 09:21:15 Originally by: Adeimantus Qir LOL...........some ppl......namely the one chiming in the most with gibberish crap doesnt realize its not just over priced crap....... hmmm... how to say it without starting trbl for myself agn... Mine was all at market value, or GTC going rates. Im not talking about the ones that sell 1 tritanium for 1 billion isk. I mean the guy who sells a hulk for 125mil and loses the hulk and the isk because it was bought with isk the buyer had purchased. GM Nova has told you that you did not use the secure system when you traded your GTC with someone. Someone paid you with ill-gotten ISK in which case CCP specifically said that they will take the ISK away and you will lose the code too because the buyer will obviously try to immediately apply it. They took something like 40 bil from Amber Leonne who traded GTCs with a EULA violator and did not use the secure system. CCP said that these are the measures they are going to take now. You chose to not use the secure system, so you have no reason to complain about gtc money now.
Vrizuh Caldari	Posted - 2007.09.12 10:26:00 - [134] Redlion, IRL we let the 10 walk free for the 1. In a game, execution is reversible. Every aspect of your time in game is logged (transactions, conversations etc). Guilt and Innocence are far easier to prove. That said, I agree that GMs prolly screw up every now and then. As long as they are quick to fix it, its ok. But they gotta be quick. One of the biggest mistakes a MMO maker can make (in my opinion) is to underestimate what their game means to their players. A player who has just lost 10 bil isk is going to be emotional and can't wait 3 weeks. I have heard, rumour only, that in South Korea there is a section of the police dept for handling MMO related crimes/gripes. Damn that'd be good. Someone to *** down on idiots who keylog for accounts, and *** down on MMO providers who deprive innocent players of their hard earned avatars/communities.
Kahlan Rahl	Posted - 2007.09.12 11:08:00 - [135] Wizard's First Rule "People Are Stupid."
Althea Nar'agh StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.09.12 11:21:00 - [136] What really puzzles me is this: We have this nice guy from CCP that says, give me some details, a petition subject what not, and I'll do a one in a life-time exception and will personally look into the issue... and then nothing... OP disappears... WTF? Someone realized it's better to lay low? (Disclaimer: if i did miss something then sorry, i retract my "subtle finger pointing") -------------------------- War. War never changes EvE Training Monitor / iMonitor / iCEO EvE iHelper
fuze	Posted - 2007.09.12 11:34:00 - [137] Originally by: CCP Prism X I will never be able to divulge information on how we differentiate between scammers and ISK sellers. Fair enough. As long as you keep questioning yourselves.
Jaedan Chantes Chantes Technologies	Posted - 2007.09.12 11:39:00 - [138] Originally by: RedLion I mean, how can people know it's illegal? It's not like everyone who install a software nowadays read all the wall of text in the installing process. I mean, if I didn't know buying isk was illegal and first lost my bought isk then the same amount additional, i would be pretty ****ed of. If you don't stop isk spam, you should not be so strict penalizing people who buy isk, because I believe there are people buying isk in good belief. though I have no idea how many people you penalize for buying isk compared to the real money of isk buyers.. I'm not necessarily supporting CCP's actions, but pleading ignorance is not a reason to get off the hook. Regardless of whether or not you actually read the EULA, you did click the "I Accept" button when you started playing EVE. And there are warnings: The MOTD box on the login screen says things about selling/buying ISk from time to time. This thread serves as a warning. And I'm sure there are warnings scattered throughout the website/forums.
pirategirl85	Posted - 2007.09.12 11:43:00 - [139] No. You cant risk punishing innoccent people just to persecute people who are doing things against the EULA.
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.09.12 12:14:00 - [140] Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 12/09/2007 12:16:20 Originally by: pirategirl85 No. You cant risk punishing innoccent people just to persecute people who are doing things against the EULA. Yes. You can. And the only 'innocent' people who need worry are those who know they're treading a fine line anyway. And I still love that all the OP has to do is say he's innocent, and straight away he is in the public eye. And yet CCP say "we can re-look into it if you go through the right channels" and nobody buys it. Bloody sheep. Improve Market Competition!

Aramendel Amarr Coreli Corporation Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.09.12 12:33:00 - [141] The base problem is: You have "dirty isk". You want to laundry it somehow. The obvious solution is to "fall" for a scam. Ah, stupid me. If GMs would ignore "dirty isk" which was transferred over "scams" it would be a 100% reliable way to wash it. Its about catching people trying to wash isk at all. The simply fact is that iskseller chars are little more than a isk relay station, They do not play the game. If you do not realyl do much at all and pretty much all of your transactions is "falling for scams"... well.

CCP PrismX	Posted - 2007.09.12 13:05:00 - [142] Originally by: Vrizuh Edited by: Vrizuh on 12/09/2007 04:13:21 Oh this is gonna be fun. PrismX and that female dev who does the drone regions are my fav devs. EDIT: more respectful If you're talking about my alternate personality as that female dev who does the drone regions then you are mistaken. I didn't do them, I just took interest in them afterwards. Then I noticed people were attributing female pronouns to me so I decided my Avatar had to change or I'd have to face the same comments and questions over and over again on the fanfest. I'm still awaiting information from the OP to be posted here. I cannot see any questions raised which I haven't already answered (and just because you ask them again in different ways doesn't mean I'm going to answer them differently) so we'll leave it at that. Damn I so miss this face. ~ Prism X Relocating your character to a cozy, giant secure container since 2006.

RedLion Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.12 14:33:00 - [143] Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Quote: I don't know what logic CCP follows. But isn't it better to let 10 people go unpunished than punish an innocent person? Don't know about you, but I think it's better to punish those 10 people and risk that one is 'innocent' as you put, and undo any 'bad' you've done to that person if possible. In this sort of case, the 'bad' is easily undone. So yeah, it's better to punish 10 and sweep up someone who wasn't deserving of it in the process. Personally, I'm surprised that this topic is still going. I've caught up with what people are saying, and the only reason this could actually have been an ISK Buyer caught out has not been debunked. Once again, for anyone who read me making this claim eariler, I'm not going to post how you'd do it, because it's a step-by-step to breaching the EULA, if you don't realise how this could be done, you should probably think before you hit the reply button to this topic again. And until my private little theory is debunked, I'm not going to believe one bit of the "zomg ccp lining their own characters pockets" rubbish. It's against CCP's policies to reveal any investigation details, and the OP has no need to tell us the truth or otherwise, so everyone's hands are tied in terms of recieving a proper answer. Well ask yourself, what does the community gain from 10 isk buyers quitting EVE? We get a more active economy, we get more active players, etc.. Not punishing 10 players is not a big loss, compared to totally devastate a character. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The Gallenteans must be destroyed - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Hllaxiu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.09.12 14:41:00 - [144] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: RedLion Dear Prism X (I hope you read this): I don't know what logic CCP follows. But isn't it better to let 10 people go unpunished than punish an innocent person? They don't punish inno-- aw forget it, this just isn't getting through to people. Christ. It is incredibly easy for farmers to frame people. All they have to do is deposit isk in your account - bam you're banned for isk buying. --- Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.09.12 14:43:00 - [145] What does the EVE community get? Ten less people who destroy the spirit of the game, and one person who just needs to take a deep breath, follow the procedures which are pretty clear, get his stuff back and continue with the game, clear in the knowledge of how his actions may have been interpreted as being against the EULA, knowing not to tread that line again. And believe me, the more I think about it and look at what others are saying, the less and less this individual case seems like it's just "I sold a rattlesnake and the GM took my isk and ship for it" Improve Market Competition!

CCP Prism X	Posted - 2007.09.12 15:16:00 - [146] Originally by: Hllaxiu It is incredibly easy for farmers to frame people. All they have to do is deposit isk in your account - bam you're banned for isk buying. It is also incredibly easy to petition to our GMs in the lines of: Greetings dear GMs, <Insert character name> just sent me 10 billion ISKs for reasons unkown to me. I have a rather shady feeling about this because I've been a thorn in the eyes of ISK farmers/sellers for quite some time now and fear they might be framing me. I'd like to request a GM to look into the matter regarding this transaction. I'm alright with the ISKs in question being frozen while you are investigating this. Thank you, CCP Prism X Or alternatively: Dear GMs, I was recently banned for buying ISK. Although I understand this is a delicate matter to you I'd like to request a senior GM to look into my plea of innocence. The fact of the matter is that I've been popping ISK Farmers like mad since May 3rd of this year and I believe this is a frame job on their behalf to get rid of me. If you look into my case you'll hopefully notice that I never spent any of this ISK as I never managed to log on before I was banned (I suspect they probably notified you of my business with ISK sellers so you'd look into it immediately and ban me before I could react) so I never even got a chance to report the dubious transaction. Of course I have no objections to the illegal ISK being removed from my account but I would greatly appreciate my ban being lifted and perhaps my permanent record ammended. If there is any further information I can give to speed up this investigation I wont hesitate to provide it. Regards, CCP Prism X Or alternatively you can notice the extra money you got. Hopefully some alarms are raised in your head but you decide to spend it anyway at which point you will possibly get a ban in accordance to the amount you received and, at the very least, all the illicit ISK revoked from your account. It is quite possible that even than you can claim ignorance and cite the possible reason for this frame-up job and hope for the best, but after spending blood money I can't make any promises as to your innocence being provable. After all, if I'd give you $10k for no reason, you are to report it to the IRS the very least.. and personaly I'd check each and every bill for being a forgery but that's because I've been burnt myself enough on not covering all my bases, thrice, so I've grown rather paranoid. ~ Prism X Relocating your character to a cozy, giant secure container since 2006.

Cpt Fina Insult to Injury	Posted - 2007.09.12 15:42:00 - [147] Quote: I cannot see any questions raised which I haven't already answered (and just because you ask them again in different ways doesn't mean I'm going to answer them differently) so we'll leave it at that. So basically everyone that have a hard time recognizing isk-sellers and either scams or make high margin deals will be risking getting their wallets erased and will have a hard time getting it back. I think I understand, but I definitely donÆt agree.
Mesacc Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.12 16:01:00 - [148] So let me get this straight. If I sell the veld in my hanger that I been mining over the last month and it gets bought by someone with isk that came from a credit seller, will I get banned? If I sell through contract? Market? Both? If so, im just gonna sit on the stuff for a while till this crap gets straightend out. I shouldent be banned for somthing out of my control. I know you can petition and get them to look into it further, but they should really look into it further and get all the facts before the swing the ban stick.
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.09.12 16:12:00 - [149] Edited by: Ki Tarra on 12/09/2007 16:15:17 Originally by: Cpt Fina Quote: I cannot see any questions raised which I haven't already answered (and just because you ask them again in different ways doesn't mean I'm going to answer them differently) so we'll leave it at that. So basically everyone that have a hard time recognizing isk-sellers and either scams or make high margin deals will be risking getting their wallets erased and will have a hard time getting it back. I think I understand, but I definitely donÆt agree. Did you read the above post? I just finished issuing a bond, raising 2.5 billion ISK from various investors. Now what if one of them was an ISK seller. Do I fear that a GM is going to ban my accounts, or seize my ISK. No! If CCP finds that some of that money is dirty there are several very simple routes to take. First they could seize the shares bought with that dirty ISK, then once the dividends are paid out the dirty ISK would be effectively removed from the game. Second they could return the shares, which I could then sell to a legitamate investor. Now suppose that my intentions were to scam my investors out of that healthy sum. All I need to do is file a petition along the lines of: Dear GM, I have just screwed all the people out of a health chuck of ISK. Could you please verify that there will be no problems with my keeping it as I would not want to tant my hard earned ISK with any dirty blood money, Thank you. I doubt that there is anyone out there who is seriously pulling the multi billion ISK scams on a regular basis. When a scam works, and the scammer wants to be in the clear, they only need to get a backgorund check done on the victum. Unlike other games, in this one, proper scams are GM approved. Originally by: Mesacc So let me get this straight. If I sell the veld in my hanger that I been mining over the last month and it gets bought by someone with isk that came from a credit seller, will I find -$ in my account? If I sell through contract? Market? Both? Not if it is sold for anything even remotely close to market value. Sell it for 10x profit, not a problem. Sell 1 unit for 1 billion ISK, petition the buyer for a background check before you spend it. Is that really so hard to understand. ************************** Ki Tech Industries - Bond Offer
Grawshellar	Posted - 2007.09.12 16:12:00 - [150] Heh, anyone else around when like 150 people ate a ban in SWG for getting credits given to them for no reason? Buncha people were banned for weeks because a few people had illicitly gained credits and were giving them to people as 'gifts' or supposed goodwill gestures to newbies. Honestly, if someone in eve tossed me 1 bil I wouldn't do much aside from maybe contact them and say thanks, and asked why I deserved such a tip. Heck, in the past I've gotten a 50+mil bit of ISK given to me by a stranger when I was a n00b. Now I guess instead of playing the game I get to spend my time second guessing where every ISK I acquire comes from, and worrying whether or not any market orders I put up get filled by ISK farmers or not.



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