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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 11 post(s)
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.09.12 16:15:00 - [151] Originally by: Mesacc Edited by: Mesacc on 12/09/2007 16:12:04 So let me get this straight. If I sell the veld in my hanger that I been mining over the last month and it gets bought by someone with isk that came from a credit seller, will I find -$ in my account? If I sell through contract? Market? Both? If you sell your one unit of trit for one billion credits :P Seriously,, the over-hyping this is getting. Quick ladies and gentlemen, grab your pitchforks and torches! Christ,,,, Improve Market Competition!
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.09.12 16:20:00 - [152] Originally by: Grawshellar Heh, anyone else around when like 150 people ate a ban in SWG for getting credits given to them for no reason? Buncha people were banned for weeks because a few people had illicitly gained credits and were giving them to people as 'gifts' or supposed goodwill gestures to newbies. Honestly, if someone in eve tossed me 1 bil I wouldn't do much aside from maybe contact them and say thanks, and asked why I deserved such a tip. Heck, in the past I've gotten a 50+mil bit of ISK given to me by a stranger when I was a n00b. Now I guess instead of playing the game I get to spend my time second guessing where every ISK I acquire comes from, and worrying whether or not any market orders I put up get filled by ISK farmers or not. Good will gestures measure in the millions maybe 10's of millions. ISK sellers deal in the 100's of millions or billions. We are talking about 1 or 2 orders of magnatude difference in the vary least. It is really not hard to tell the difference. If someone gave you 1 billion for no reason, then you would be stupid not to petition them if you intend to spend that ISK. If someone gave you 50 million out of the kindness of their heart, you have nothing to fear. Just like Prism's example. It is the difference between finding $100 on the side of the road and finding $10,000. The first you keep, the second you report. ************************** Ki Tech Industries - Bond Offer
Grawshellar	Posted - 2007.09.12 16:21:00 - [153] Originally by: Kylar Renpurs If you sell your one unit of trit for one billion credits :P Seriously,, the over-hyping this is getting. Quick ladies and gentlemen, grab your pitchforks and torches! Christ,,,, It's due to the fact that the potential for abuse is staggering. step 1: Go to friends house that doesn't play eve, set up a trial account with a fishy sounding email. step 2: Buy ISK from a website. step 3: Once you recieve it tip it to someone you dislike. step 4: Repeat 3 days later. Boom, someone gets a permaban or 2 marks to their account at the least, except in the very unlikely event that they report getting a gift of 100mil from someone, where most people would probably just smile and buy a shiny new BS instead of worrying over the ISKs true origin.
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.09.12 16:21:00 - [154] Edited by: Ki Tarra on 12/09/2007 16:24:02 Originally by: Grawshellar Originally by: Kylar Renpurs If you sell your one unit of trit for one billion credits :P Seriously,, the over-hyping this is getting. Quick ladies and gentlemen, grab your pitchforks and torches! Christ,,,, It's due to the fact that the potential for abuse is staggering. step 1: Go to friends house that doesn't play eve, set up a trial account with a fishy sounding email. step 2: Buy ISK from a website. step 3: Once you recieve it tip it to someone you dislike. step 4: Repeat 3 days later. Boom, someone gets a permaban or 2 marks to their account at the least, except in the very unlikely event that they report getting a gift of 100mil from someone, where most people would probably just smile and buy a shiny new BS instead of worrying over the ISKs true origin. So how much real money are you willing to spend to ban your enemies? ************************** Ki Tech Industries - Bond Offer
Grawshellar	Posted - 2007.09.12 16:23:00 - [155] Edited by: Grawshellar on 12/09/2007 16:25:16 Originally by: Ki Tarra If someone gave you 1 billion for no reason, then you would be stupid not to petition them if you intend to spend that ISK. If someone gave you 50 million out of the kindness of their heart, you have nothing to fear. The biggest problem being that there is no guideline for this sort of thing, and 90% of the playerbase doesn't read the forums. I can just see the tutorial now: "And remember, be suspicious of any large donations from other players! Please report any ISK donations in excess of X number of ISK promptly!" Would definitely set the mood for a pleasant gaming experience, eh?
Cpt Fina Insult to Injury	Posted - 2007.09.12 16:23:00 - [156] Originally by: Ki Tarra Originally by: Cpt Fina Quote: I cannot see any questions raised which I haven't already answered (and just because you ask them again in different ways doesn't mean I'm going to answer them differently) so we'll leave it at that. So basically everyone that have a hard time recognizing isk-sellers and either scams or make high margin deals will be risking getting their wallets erased and will have a hard time getting it back. I think I understand, but I definitely donÆt agree. Did you read the above post? I just finished issuing a bond, raising 2.5 billion ISK from various investors. Now what if one of them was an ISK seller. Do I fear that a GM is going to ban my accounts, or seize my ISK. No! If CCP finds that some of that money is dirty there are several very simple routes to take. First they could seize the shares bought with that dirty ISK, then once the dividends are paid out the dirty ISK would be effectively removed from the game. Second they could return the shares, which I could then sell to a legitamate investor. Now suppose that my intentions were to scam my investors out of that healthy sum. All I need to do is file a petition along the lines of: Dear GM, I have just screwed all the people out of a health chuck of ISK. Could you please verify that there will be no problems with my keeping it as I would not want to tant my hard earned ISK with any dirty blood money, Thank you. I doubt that there is anyone out there who is seriously pulling the multi billion ISK scams on a regular basis. When a scam works, and the scammer wants to be in the clear, they only need to get a backgorund check done on the victum. Unlike other games, in this one, proper scams are GM approved. Did YOU read the above posts? The only guidelines provided are that we should use common sense regarding prices and avoid isk-sellers. Now how does my post contradict that statement? I donÆt really care what you say that you think CCP are going to do when a Dev clearly has stated the vague procedures one can follow to minimize the risk.
Grawshellar	Posted - 2007.09.12 16:29:00 - [157] Originally by: Ki Tarra So how much real money are you willing to spend to ban your enemies? I really haven't ever had the opportunity to make many enemies, mostly due to the fact that I enjoy getting blown up when taking on impossible fights :P But with the level of meta-gaming that goes on I'm sure that it would be a possibility for someone. If people are willing to commit crimes (ie hacking) to get information, how much would they pay to get an enemy titan pilot baned?
Brock McF Caldari Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.09.12 16:29:00 - [158] Firstly, I would like to point out any discussion about the matter at hand with no experience dealing with a similar incident is quite invalid and pointless. Like I said before the masses will always assume you are wrong, simple. I support Prism 100% here, the OP needs to prove his case. I will repeat myself once more, if you prove your case you will most likely get justice. Give him a chance people. What most are squabbling about is whether or not CCP should take isk first before verifying the account is innocent, and in most cases this method works. Of course there are those instances where they mess up, Hence we have a GM trying to help. What is interesting is it always seems these issues arise because of someones lack of communication, GM or Player. Brock
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.09.12 16:35:00 - [159] Edited by: Ki Tarra on 12/09/2007 16:36:40 Originally by: Cpt Fina Did YOU read the above posts? The only guidelines provided are that we should use common sense regarding prices and avoid isk-sellers. Now how does my post contradict that statement? I donÆt really care what you say that you think CCP are going to do when a Dev clearly has stated the vague procedures one can follow to minimize the risk. If you are so short on common sence that you cannot tell the difference between the two I will give you a number. Any dubious transaction over 95 million should be reported. Does that make you happy? Oh now you are sure to have problems telling the difference between dubious and practical transactions. Do you need a profit margin now. How about any profit margin of 300%? It is not like there are a lot of opportunities in empire space for 300% profit that could possibly be mistaken with ISK trade. How much hand holding do you people need? Prism has offered to personally investigate the claim of misapplied justice. The OP has disappeared, and no body else can bring forth specifics. Quote: "How much pain they have cost us, the evils which have never happened." --Thomas Jefferson What part of the appeals process has you confussed. Where is any indication that the appeals process has failed. Please site just one example. I am sure that Prism doesn't care if it was the OP's case or anyone elses. Just give us ONE case where the appeals process has failed to find the innocent to be innocent. Until we see that one case, we are in the relm of Thomas Jeffersons quote. ************************** Ki Tech Industries - Bond Offer
Grawshellar	Posted - 2007.09.12 16:45:00 - [160] Originally by: Ki Tarra Quote: "How much pain they have cost us, the evils which have never happened." --Thomas Jefferson What part of the appeals process has you confussed. Where is any indication that the appeals process has failed. Please site just one example. I am sure that Prism doesn't care if it was the OP's case or anyone elses. Just give us ONE case where the appeals process has failed to find the innocent to be innocent. Until we see that one case, we are in the relm of Thomas Jeffersons quote. Not that I really feel that there are many, if any, banning of innocents, but wouldn't the victim of an unfair ban be unable to prove his innocence, and also unable to speak of it on this board? Seeing as they would be banned :P

Cpt Fina Insult to Injury	Posted - 2007.09.12 17:07:00 - [161] Edited by: Cpt Fina on 12/09/2007 17:15:04 Originally by: Ki Tarra Edited by: Ki Tarra on 12/09/2007 16:36:40 Originally by: Cpt Fina Did YOU read the above posts? The only guidelines provided are that we should use common sense regarding prices and avoid isk-sellers. Now how does my post contradict that statement? I donÆt really care what you say that you think CCP are going to do when a Dev clearly has stated the vague procedures one can follow to minimize the risk. If you are so short on common sence that you cannot tell the difference between the two I will give you a number. Any dubious transaction over 95 million should be reported. Does that make you happy? Oh now you are sure to have problems telling the difference between dubious and practical transactions. Do you need a profit margin now. How about any profit margin of 300%? It is not like there are a lot of opportunities in empire space for 300% profit that could possibly be mistaken with ISK trade. How much hand holding do you people need? Yes, now that you've given me numbers that you just made up I feel much more comfortable. There's allot of scams that exceeds 95 million, 101% of them if youÆre to trust my imaginary statistics just as you wanted me to trust yours. Quote: How about any profit margin of 300%? How about any profit above 1000% or 20%? Again, your made-up numbers wonÆt help me back up my case when CCP comes knocking on my door. You can keep on following your set of rules (which iÆm not saying is wrong but just havenÆt been confirmed). That doesnÆt mean that CCP might remove your isk and say that ôcommon senseö wouldÆve told you that any deal over 25 mil with a margin greater than 100% should be considered dubious. People make multibillion transactions on a daily basis, investing years of hard earned ISK. You don't see why they would've want a set of guidelines to minimize the risk of getting their ISK removed? Quote: Just give us ONE case where the appeals process has failed to find the innocent to be innocent. The problem isn't that innocent people are getting punished. The problem is that it's too hard to avoid fulfilling CCP's criteria of being a guilty person.
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.09.12 17:08:00 - [162] Originally by: Grawshellar Originally by: Ki Tarra Quote: "How much pain they have cost us, the evils which have never happened." --Thomas Jefferson What part of the appeals process has you confussed. Where is any indication that the appeals process has failed. Please site just one example. I am sure that Prism doesn't care if it was the OP's case or anyone elses. Just give us ONE case where the appeals process has failed to find the innocent to be innocent. Until we see that one case, we are in the relm of Thomas Jeffersons quote. Not that I really feel that there are many, if any, banning of innocents, but wouldn't the victim of an unfair ban be unable to prove his innocence, and also unable to speak of it on this board? Seeing as they would be banned :P Do you have any examples where an person protests his innocence against GM action taken because of suspected ISK-RMT. This person must also have followed the estallation process all the way through to IA. Have this person step forward and offer to be a case study and we will see if Prism will transfer his one time offer since the OP has disappeared. If not we are still dealing with theoretical worst case senarios. Worst possible case is that there is some idiot out there who is so deprived of cognative ability that they set themselves up to appear to be purchasing ISK in every possible way, and have no viable explaination for the transactions that mysteriously appear in his favor. Then ya, he might get punished for something he didn't do. Such a person, due to his complete lack of cognative ability, would not be creditable within the commmunity, so appeals to the forums would also be useless. Then again such intellegence deficient persons are not likely to be missed either. As for their in ablility to communicate with the community due to a ban. There are many cases where such outcries have been voiced on the forums. CCP has in the past proven them selves capable of handling such cases in a professional manner. If you know of such a person, please present the details for review in this thread. ************************** Ki Tech Industries - Bond Offer
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.09.12 17:15:00 - [163] Edited by: Ki Tarra on 12/09/2007 17:16:52 Originally by: Cpt Fina People make multibillion transactions on a daily basis, investing years of hard earned ISK. You don't see why they would've want a set of guidelines to minimize the risk of getting their ISK removed? Those who make multibillion ISK transactions do so because they have the common sense and business savy to get multi-billions. They are not likely to fall victum to accusations of ISK purchasing, due to their abundant supply of common sense. I am not going to try and guess whether or not you have suffience common sense to work your way into the multibillion ISK crowd. Time will tell. In the mean while those numbers that I provided, should keep those who lack the intellegence to put together such large sums, safe from false accusations. We keep talking about theorectic senarios. Give us one real world senario. Please, just one. ************************** Ki Tech Industries - Bond Offer
Grawshellar	Posted - 2007.09.12 17:20:00 - [164] Edited by: Grawshellar on 12/09/2007 17:24:01 Edited by: Grawshellar on 12/09/2007 17:22:43 Originally by: Ki Tarra We keep talking about theorectic senarios. Give us one real world senario. Please, just one. The nature of CCPs system is such that no one can realistically do this. People eat a ban, they can no longer discuss what happens. CCP doesn't release the information. This is pretty simple: 1.) Unless the person themselves personally experienced this, then its hearsay secondhand, thus not a good example. 2.) If the person experienced this, they can't post here to give their own scenario as an example. If you're just looking for a secondhand account the OP seems to feel he has one. His lack of response seems to imply that maybe he's not as confident in his information now that a higher-up has offered to look into it though :P EDIT: Also, I don't know 99.5% of the players in this game. Saying something didn't happen because you haven't seen it seems pretty silly :P Obviously protests of innocence happens enough that there is a system in place to deal with them, and obviously there have been enough false bannings to warrant such a system. From there is is such a large jump to say there has likely been a false banning, or mroe then one? FRUTEHR EDIT: Furthermore, me coming forward with one such example and having Prism disprove it doesn't mean jack, you can't examine one case and conclude from it that all such cases must be similar.
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.09.12 17:30:00 - [165] Edited by: Ki Tarra on 12/09/2007 17:35:29 Originally by: Grawshellar If you're just looking for a secondhand account the OP seems to feel he has one. His lack of response seems to imply that maybe he's not as confident in his information now that a higher-up has offered to look into it though :P I will accept second hand, provided that a character name is specified, and that the information is infact second hand and not third, forth, etc... Like you said, the OP doesn't seem so confident now with an offer for an open review. Maybe now he sees the real reason for CCP's privacy policy. It is not to protect CCP, it is to protect the players. Would you really want your guilt made public? Give the reason that Prism gave for offering to do an open review, I bet he would transfer his one time offer to anyone who stepped forward, just as a one time case study that everyone could reference to see the next time a thread like this starts up. As yet, there has not been anyone who has stood by there claim in an open review. Everytime some has claimed that they were wronged due to an GM ruling regarding ISK purchasing, either they have not followed the escallation path, or they did something outside the standard frame work that voided their innocence. We now have an opportunity to prove otherwise, but nobody is coming forward. Edit - this topic comes up often. You are right that the one test of a claim doesn't prove much. However, the complete lack of even one case where someone has been unjustly conficted and appeals disregarded, and further review by the community to back their innocence does say something about CCP. Everytime someone makes a claim like this, it always seems to end with a oops the OP screwed up or didn't bother to appeal through proper channels. ************************** Ki Tech Industries - Bond Offer
Cpt Fina Insult to Injury	Posted - 2007.09.12 17:33:00 - [166] Originally by: Ki Tarra Originally by: Cpt Fina People make multibillion transactions on a daily basis, investing years of hard earned ISK. You don't see why they would've want a set of guidelines to minimize the risk of getting their ISK removed? Those who make multibillion ISK transactions do so because they have the common sense and business savy to get multi-billions. They are not likely to fall victum to accusations of ISK purchasing, due to their abundant supply of common sense. I am not going to try and guess whether or not you have suffience common sense to work your way into the multibillion ISK crowd. Time will tell. Common sense - the unreflective opinions of ordinary men Webster's English Dictionary Mark "oppinionS" as in plural, as in several, as in not one single opinion. Or maybe you just became the measure stick of what common sense is and Webster's English Dictionary just haven't had time to update their definition. People's oppinion about what is and what isn't common sense about prices and margins WILL vary, unlike CCP's who use their own definition which they won't share. Neither time nor me will tell wether i'm in the "multibillion ISK crowd" or not but your assumtion that the multi-billionaires share the same oppinion on where to draw the lines for "dubious deals" are as over-confident as it is made up. Quote: We keep talking about theorectic senarios. Give us one real world senario. Please, just one. As i posted before: The problem isn't that innocent people are getting punished. The problem is that it's too hard to avoid fulfilling CCP's criteria of being a guilty person.
Silack	Posted - 2007.09.12 17:34:00 - [167] Ah but CCP dont do anything to get rid of isk farmers do they. They just hit the player rightly or wrongly for buying just to pay this game....the isk seller get off scott free. At present I sell ETC and am just waiting for them to remove isk from my wallet as the last 9 I sold went to someone from china. Now if they do that then who are the theives???? In my opion CCP are as corrupt as hell and make the rules to suit them.. For instance when have you ever heard them give a straight answer? errrr never. When do they show any logs of game crashes, who buy what and when....errr never. So in essance CCP dictate the players as to what they can or cant do....who dictates to CCP.. I wait the day when some one sues CCP for breach of their own EULA. So to round it up play the game and earn ISK and then wait for ccp to steal all you hard earned and honest isk right from under your nose and there is not a damn thing we can do about it , until there is someone scrutinising CCP Silack (only plays the game as there is **** all on tv)
An Anarchyyt Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.09.12 17:35:00 - [168] Originally by: Cpt Fina Common sense - the unreflective opinions of ordinary men Webster's English Dictionary Actually, according to Merriam-Webster, common sense is defined as: Main Entry: common sense Function: noun Date: 1726 : sound and prudent judgment based on a simple perception of the situation or facts Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Alois Hammer Minmatar Hammers Slammers Slammer's Republic	Posted - 2007.09.12 17:35:00 - [169] i ate a loss because i sold some GTC"s to an "known ISK seller" the end result i got for complaining was a pat on the head , loss of 500 mill and "you should have known better" , email. now im exceptionally leery of selling a bloody unit of trit due to the loss you can incurr. and complainng does zip. zippity zip zip zip. you acutaly bite real-money loss and theres nothing you can do about it . personally as a real-life corporation you get a serious legal hassle if someone takes money out of your account for no reasons that can be justified . its called theft . simple. for that there are laws that govern cases like that. they are not dependant upon a individuals whim and calls. we are at the mercy of the GM"s. as such you could lose a ton of work to someones bad coffe-day , or get a slap on the wrist and a pat on the back of the head , leaving you in a hole that could take months to get out of. my 3 cents
Nicola Sardonicus	Posted - 2007.09.12 17:37:00 - [170] Originally by: Ki Tarra Originally by: Grawshellar Heh, anyone else around when like 150 people ate a ban in SWG for getting credits given to them for no reason? Buncha people were banned for weeks because a few people had illicitly gained credits and were giving them to people as 'gifts' or supposed goodwill gestures to newbies. Honestly, if someone in eve tossed me 1 bil I wouldn't do much aside from maybe contact them and say thanks, and asked why I deserved such a tip. Heck, in the past I've gotten a 50+mil bit of ISK given to me by a stranger when I was a n00b. Now I guess instead of playing the game I get to spend my time second guessing where every ISK I acquire comes from, and worrying whether or not any market orders I put up get filled by ISK farmers or not. Good will gestures measure in the millions maybe 10's of millions. ISK sellers deal in the 100's of millions or billions. We are talking about 1 or 2 orders of magnatude difference in the vary least. It is really not hard to tell the difference. If someone gave you 1 billion for no reason, then you would be stupid not to petition them if you intend to spend that ISK. If someone gave you 50 million out of the kindness of their heart, you have nothing to fear. Just like Prism's example. It is the difference between finding $100 on the side of the road and finding $10,000. The first you keep, the second you report. ____________________________________ No good deed goes unpunished.

Grawshellar	Posted - 2007.09.12 17:38:00 - [171] Originally by: Ki Tarra I will accept second hand, provided that a character name is specified, and that the information is infact second hand and not third, forth, etc... Like you said, the OP doesn't seem so confident now with an offer for an open review. Maybe now he sees the real reason for CCP's privacy policy. It is not to protect CCP, it is to protect the players. Would you really want your guilt made public? Give the reason that Prism gave for offering to do an open review, I bet he would transfer his one time offer to anyone who stepped forward, just as a one time case study that everyone could reference to see the next time a thread like this starts up. As yet, there has not been anyone who has stood by there claim in an open review. Everytime some has claimed that they were wronged due to an GM ruling regarding ISK purchasing, either they have not followed the escallation path, or they did something outside the standard frame work that voided their innocence. We now have an opportunity to prove otherwise, but nobody is coming forward. People wrongly banned are unlikely to visit here to know that their friend has a chance to plead their case, and the fact that the majority of players don't bother to read the occasional random thread on the board makes this unlikely. I'd be more interested to hear CCP Prisms' opinion on the possibility of unwarranted bans, or of past bans that were only caught much after the fact due to circumstances. I doubt that he would be able to say much though, which I would consider telling. Seriously, IRL courts convict and JAIL people for life wrongfully, you seriously think that the gm team bats 100%? You're quite the optimist :P
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.09.12 17:40:00 - [172] Originally by: Cpt Fina The problem is that it's too hard to avoid fulfilling CCP's criteria of being a guilty person. Please back this claim up with any real world example. You make a claim, back it up. My claim that it is easy to avoid the critria of being guilty when innocent is currently backed by a well established appeals process that has to date not left a single case open for public review where someone that was falsely accused did not have the ruling overturned in the appeals process. ************************** Ki Tech Industries - Bond Offer
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.09.12 17:42:00 - [173] Edited by: Ki Tarra on 12/09/2007 17:42:37 Originally by: Alois Hammer i ate a loss because i sold some GTC"s to an "known ISK seller" Are you offering yourself as an example? In your transaction with the known ISK seller did you use the secure GTC trade method? ************************** Ki Tech Industries - Bond Offer
Cpt Fina Insult to Injury	Posted - 2007.09.12 17:44:00 - [174] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: Cpt Fina Common sense - the unreflective opinions of ordinary men Webster's English Dictionary Actually, according to Merriam-Webster, common sense is defined as: Main Entry: common sense Function: noun Date: 1726 : sound and prudent judgment based on a simple perception of the situation or facts Above states what it is based on, not who or how many that can be the judge of common sense.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.09.12 17:45:00 - [175] Originally by: Cpt Fina Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: Cpt Fina Common sense - the unreflective opinions of ordinary men Webster's English Dictionary Actually, according to Merriam-Webster, common sense is defined as: Main Entry: common sense Function: noun Date: 1726 : sound and prudent judgment based on a simple perception of the situation or facts Above states what it is based on, not who or how many that can be the judge of common sense. You said Webster's Dictionary, that is the definition from Webster's Dictionary. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Cpt Fina Insult to Injury	Posted - 2007.09.12 18:01:00 - [176] Edited by: Cpt Fina on 12/09/2007 18:06:29 Edited by: Cpt Fina on 12/09/2007 18:04:39 What, you're not going to respond on the other part of my post? Originally by: Ki Tarra Originally by: Cpt Fina The problem is that it's too hard to avoid fulfilling CCP's criteria of being a guilty person. Please back this claim up with any real world example. You make a claim, back it up. I back it up with from game developer CCP Prismx's post earlier in this thread which makes it clear that common sense is a (and almost the only given) guideline that we should follow. Quote: My claim that it is easy to avoid the critria of being guilty when innocent is currently backed by a well established appeals process that has to date not left a single case open for public review where someone that was falsely accused did not have the ruling overturned in the appeals process. Well then our opinions on how easy it is to fulfil the criteria of being considered incautious, which apparently is the crime of the guilty players, differ. I think that the fact that every player that have a hard time recognizing isk-sellers and are in the scamming business/high margin profit trader, will be considered as incautious (and thus will have a hard time proving their innocence) by CCP, is wrong. You seem not to. Judging by this thread other do. Originally by: An Anarchyyt You said Webster's Dictionary, that is the definition from Webster's Dictionary. Yes, I did
Arii Smith Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.09.12 18:04:00 - [177] I am sure this has been mentioned already but... What are the "known ISK sellers" doing with their accounts still? If they are known to be a seller why can they log in, much less buy anything!?
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.09.12 18:14:00 - [178] Edited by: Ki Tarra on 12/09/2007 18:16:16 Originally by: Arii Smith I am sure this has been mentioned already but... What are the "known ISK sellers" doing with their accounts still? If they are known to be a seller why can they log in, much less buy anything!? When they become a "known ISK seller" their accounts are closed. They then track transaction out from there. The ISK seller was not known to CCP at the time of the transaction. However, due to the nature of the transaction it would appear to CCP that the recipient of the ISK did know that it was from an ISK seller. The appeals process is in place to handle exceptions. Originally by: Cpt Fina Yes, I did Would it helped if I did a find/replace in my earlier post to change it to the definition found on the official merriam-websters website, as that is the definition that I was using the phase based on. ************************** Ki Tech Industries - Bond Offer
Grawshellar	Posted - 2007.09.12 18:19:00 - [179] Just a question, when did "ways to avoid getting wrongfully banned" come under the heading of common sense? Thats similar to assuming that "ways not to get framed" is common sense. Not something that enough people are concerned with the really fit in that category in my opinion.
Ki Tarra Caldari Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.09.12 18:23:00 - [180] Edited by: Ki Tarra on 12/09/2007 18:25:07 Originally by: Grawshellar Thats similar to assuming that "ways not to get framed" is common sense. How about ways to not look like your laundering drug money as common sense. Don't know a lot of real life people who are wrongfully convicted of laundering drug money and the real life justice system is much less forgiving than the appeals process in place with CCP. It real doesn't take that much to stay out of trouble. Even when you are walking on the darkside of the line. ************************** Ki Tech Industries - Bond Offer



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