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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 11 post(s)
Cpt Fina Insult to Injury	Posted - 2007.09.12 23:14:00 - [241] Originally by: Decarus Originally by: CCP Prism X Of course we are going to ban you for selling 1 unit of Veldspar for half a billion ISK to a known ISK seller. Of course there are no magic numbers for when a transaction becomes suspect. You're implying that the numbers are the only thing that matters. We wouldn't need GMs then, I'd write a script which would eventually ban you all and I'd have to find a new job. We have GMs because of the human factor. We need their intuition. With this intuition comes the so called 'Human Nature' which is flawed which leads us to doing mistakes even when our intentions are angelic. No, this would be the proper quote in my opinion. The omitted part makes the whole thing alot clearer and even implies that the Veldspar quote was just an arbitrary example because the Dev already said he couldn't elaborate at all. Don't know, maybe it's just me. I do enjoy using selective quoting against those who use them. I just wanted to be a part of this dooms day prophecy. Yeah he states that it's the GMs that makes the final decision of where to draw the linein each case. But it is still a line that is drawn and that was what i used as an argument.
Cpt Fina Insult to Injury	Posted - 2007.09.12 23:15:00 - [242] Originally by: Grawshellar Originally by: Cpt Fina Even tho Poland didn't put up a real fight when Germany attacked them it is still considered that Germany declared war. Isk sellers are hardly Poland. They don't put up any fight. They are Ghandi, without the morally superior high ground :P Would you say that Ghandi declared war on the British? :P No i'd say that he demonstrated against opression. Much like i'm doing in this thread :P
Grawshellar	Posted - 2007.09.12 23:19:00 - [243] Originally by: Cpt Fina No i'd say that he demonstrated against opression. Much like i'm doing in this thread :P In the same way the the ISK sellers are demonstrating against their oppression. And CCP definitely oppresses them!
Sheylyn	Posted - 2007.09.12 23:22:00 - [244] Ok I need an email address to send the requested info for Prism X. Can anyone help me out, by chance have the address please, as I can't find one for him
Cpt Fina Insult to Injury	Posted - 2007.09.12 23:25:00 - [245] Originally by: Grawshellar Originally by: Cpt Fina No i'd say that he demonstrated against opression. Much like i'm doing in this thread :P In the same way the the ISK sellers are demonstrating against their oppression. And CCP definitely oppresses them! Or in the way that there's a state of conflict (war) between the two.
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.09.12 23:29:00 - [246] Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 12/09/2007 23:31:42 Quote: Even tho Poland didn't put up a real fight when Germany attacked them it is still considered that Germany declared war. Ah,, dammit, who's law is it that states all online discussions degenerate into talks about Germany, WW2 and **'s? Three cheers for off topic. EDIT: Godwins law :) Quote: Godwin's Law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Analogies)[1] is an adage formulated by Mike Godwin in 1990. The law states:[2] As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving s or **** approaches one. More cheers for profanity filters :O Improve Market Competition!
Grawshellar	Posted - 2007.09.12 23:34:00 - [247] Originally by: Sheylyn Ok I need an email address to send the requested info for Prism X. Can anyone help me out, by chance have the address please, as I can't find one for him Not sure it is available anywhere, maybe send it to [email protected] and explain that it needs forward to CCP Prism as per his request, and that you don't have the email. Thats the only email I have :P
Sheylyn	Posted - 2007.09.12 23:37:00 - [248] thanks again I'll send it straight off
Cpt Fina Insult to Injury	Posted - 2007.09.12 23:37:00 - [249] Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 12/09/2007 23:31:04 Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 12/09/2007 23:30:10 Quote: Even tho Poland didn't put up a real fight when Germany attacked them it is still considered that Germany declared war. Ah,, dammit, who's law is it that states all online discussions degenerate into talks about Germany, WW2 and **'s? Three cheers for off topic. EDIT: Godwins law :) Quote: Godwin's Law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Analogies)[1] is an adage formulated by Mike Godwin in 1990. The law states:[2] As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving s or **** approaches one. When discussing the definition of war, WW2 comparisons are OK imo. It's really amusing how you don't have anything but this to provide to the discussion and I really hope, for your own sake, that your post isn't a fair display of your intellect.
Grawshellar	Posted - 2007.09.12 23:40:00 - [250] Originally by: Cpt Fina Or in the way that there's a state of conflict (war) between the two. There was a 'state of conflict' between Ghandi and the British, but you already said you wouldn't call that war.

Grawshellar	Posted - 2007.09.12 23:42:00 - [251] Edited by: Grawshellar on 12/09/2007 23:44:30 Originally by: Cpt Fina Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 12/09/2007 23:31:04 Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 12/09/2007 23:30:10 Quote: Even tho Poland didn't put up a real fight when Germany attacked them it is still considered that Germany declared war. Ah,, dammit, who's law is it that states all online discussions degenerate into talks about Germany, WW2 and **'s? Three cheers for off topic. EDIT: Godwins law :) Quote: Godwin's Law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Analogies)[1] is an adage formulated by Mike Godwin in 1990. The law states:[2] As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving s or **** approaches one. When discussing the definition of war, WW2 comparisons are OK imo. It's really amusing how you don't have anything but this to provide to the discussion and I really hope, for your own sake, that your post isn't a fair display of your intellect. Eh, its all in good fun, anytime you see a discussion approaching Godwins law you are honour-bound to point it out. He's just doing his civic duty as a proud member of teh interweb. EDIT: And this isn't off topic, we're still discussing ISK sellers, which has been the main point of this thread!
Cpt Fina Insult to Injury	Posted - 2007.09.12 23:46:00 - [252] Originally by: Grawshellar Originally by: Cpt Fina Or in the way that there's a state of conflict (war) between the two. There was a 'state of conflict' between Ghandi and the British, but you already said you wouldn't call that war. I really didn't think you were being serious when you started to discuss if my use of the word "war" was correct or not. Quote: war Pronunciation: 'wor Function: noun 2 a : a state of hostility, conflict, or antagonism b : a struggle or competition between opposing forces or for a particular end <a class war> <a war against disease Webster Now, i'm sure you can call the conflict between CCP and the isk-sellers alot of things. "War" is one of them.
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.09.12 23:47:00 - [253] Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 12/09/2007 23:49:41 Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 12/09/2007 23:49:22 Quote: When discussing the definition of war, WW2 comparisons are OK imo. It's really amusing how you don't have anything but this to provide to the discussion and I really hope, for your own sake, that your post isn't a fair display of your intellect. I've put my content four pages ago when this topic had a point. I'll say it again if you missed my repost two pages ago. The OP has NOT proven his innocence, in fact there's a considerable lack of information which COULD prove his innocence, and the OP hasn't said this to prove his point. Many other people who've come out of the woodwork and said "It's happened to me too" have also failed to prove their innocence. Until anyone does this, there's really no reason to be concerned about this action by GM's. This topic was about a GM stripping isk away from his account, and whether GM's condone this or not. Quote: Do you condone your gm's making players lose there hard earned ships and isk by riping them off.. The question^^ A certain player sells rattlesnake on open contract other player buys it gm comes along says it was sold to a known isk seller and takes the isk he just got for the ship,,the ship itself and then take another bill off him aswell and that = lost player and soon many more to come if this type of thing is aloud to keep up The scenario ^^ Something must be done about this abuse of power by gm's ingame.its not the first time I've heard of this happening. Don't bother telling me this is the first time you've heard this cause i know it is not. What are you going to do about this me as a customer of your fine product would really like to know.. The conclusion NOT the definition of a war on isk-sellers, proper quoting of each other, comparisons to passive and aggressive actions, and evaluations of each others posts, ergo, you and Graw's ramblings are completely off topic and derailed any meaningful progress of this thread. Improve Market Competition!
Grawshellar	Posted - 2007.09.12 23:55:00 - [254] Originally by: Cpt Fina I really didn't think you were being serious when you started to discuss if my use of the word "war" was correct or not. Yeah, let your guard down and I strike! Sophistry is my medium, Protagoras my teacher, etc etc :P Seriously though, about time to log in and play eve. I think we've squeezed every bit of productive thought out of this thread :P
cRaNbErRy MuFfInMaN mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.09.12 23:58:00 - [255] Edited by: cRaNbErRy MuFfInMaN on 13/09/2007 00:05:10 Check out http://dl1.eve-files.com/media/0608/new.jpg
Grawshellar	Posted - 2007.09.12 23:59:00 - [256] Originally by: Kylar Renpurs NOT the definition of a war on isk-sellers, proper quoting of each other, comparisons to passive and aggressive actions, and evaluations of each others posts, ergo, you and Graw's ramblings are completely off topic and derailed any meaningful progress of this thread. The friend of the original poster only returned a few moments ago, and I directed him to the proper location to send the information to those who need it. He didn't have any use for the thread in the meantime, so there shouldn't be any issues with us keeping it warm for him.
Cpt Fina Insult to Injury	Posted - 2007.09.13 00:02:00 - [257] Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 12/09/2007 23:49:22 Quote: When discussing the definition of war, WW2 comparisons are OK imo. It's really amusing how you don't have anything but this to provide to the discussion and I really hope, for your own sake, that your post isn't a fair display of your intellect. I've put my content four pages ago when this topic had a point. I'll say it again if you missed my repost two pages ago. The OP has NOT proven his innocence, in fact there's a considerable lack of information which COULD prove his innocence, and the OP hasn't said this to prove his point. Many other people who've come out of the woodwork and said "It's happened to me too" have also failed to prove their innocence. Until anyone does this, there's really no reason to be concerned about this action by GM's. This topic was about a GM stripping isk away from his account, and whether GM's condone this or not. Quote: Do you condone your gm's making players lose there hard earned ships and isk by riping them off.. The question^^ A certain player sells rattlesnake on open contract other player buys it gm comes along says it was sold to a known isk seller and takes the isk he just got for the ship,,the ship itself and then take another bill off him aswell and that = lost player and soon many more to come if this type of thing is aloud to keep up The scenario ^^ Something must be done about this abuse of power by gm's ingame.its not the first time I've heard of this happening. Don't bother telling me this is the first time you've heard this cause i know it is not. What are you going to do about this me as a customer of your fine product would really like to know.. [i] The conclusion And i've already stated why I think them being guilty or not has little to no bearing at all. Quote: NOT the definition of a war on isk-sellers, proper quoting of each other, comparisons to passive and aggressive actions, and evaluations of each others posts, ergo, you and Graw's ramblings are completely off topic and derailed any meaningful progress of this thread. I responded to a lame theory-quote with coming from nowhere from a guy who hasn't been active in the discussion for several pages. The WW2 comparison was relevant given the context. Your abrupt input to this discussion were taken seriously. That combined with the sheer lameness of Godwin's Law resulted into my answer.
Fact Foreman	Posted - 2007.09.13 00:08:00 - [258] Edited by: Fact Foreman on 13/09/2007 00:12:13 Edited by: Fact Foreman on 13/09/2007 00:08:38 Originally by: CCP PrismX Originally by: Vrizuh Edited by: Vrizuh on 12/09/2007 04:13:21 Oh this is gonna be fun. PrismX and that female dev who does the drone regions are my fav devs. EDIT: more respectful If you're talking about my alternate personality as that female dev who does the drone regions then you are mistaken. I didn't do them, I just took interest in them afterwards. Then I noticed people were attributing female pronouns to me so I decided my Avatar had to change or I'd have to face the same comments and questions over and over again on the fanfest. I'm still awaiting information from the OP to be posted here. I cannot see any questions raised which I haven't already answered (and just because you ask them again in different ways doesn't mean I'm going to answer them differently) so we'll leave it at that. Damn I so miss this face. Well as u state above then you say you have answered every question that have come in this threat, so now that we have someone from CCP that seems to be intresed in the problem thats killing EvE, i wana ask, what proof do ppl have to hold on to get ppl banned for isk sellin ?, can CCP just take 4 sticks with name on and the shortest one gets ban or do they care about straight facts ? and if its not workin the way i ask here then why are isk farmers let to stay in game ewen when they brag about it and say it in local that they sell isk ?. Now i see you are gona say that you need some kinda proof, enjoy it and close your eyes against it, thats the CCP way :l " ME > u isk farmin for family ? Ronnie Pickering > In order to study ME > to study ? ME > u sell isk to stay school ? Ronnie Pickering > yes " What more you want ? BTW: ofc i did SS this and send to CCP in the form of petition, and ofc hes still isk farming, and ofc i am still wondering why i did spend 5 minutes of the playtime i pay for to try help solve CCP's problem
Tu Madre	Posted - 2007.09.13 00:09:00 - [259] ok i just want to know one thing - WTF is a "known ISK seller" still doing in game? as soon as that account is known he should be booted out of the game and the isk he still holds donated to ME... sounds like those CCP guys are allowing known isk sellers to exist. i think the account should be suspended as soon as it become suspect and not allowed to trade any further. and i also dont think that blanket reversals are the answer either. the transactrion log needs closer analysis than that. isk sellers can play thier accoun ts too you know... and some of the purchases they make are legitimate im sure lets not punish the wider comunity for other peoples crimes
Grawshellar	Posted - 2007.09.13 00:15:00 - [260] Originally by: Tu Madre ok i just want to know one thing - WTF is a "known ISK seller" still doing in game? as soon as that account is known he should be booted out of the game and the isk he still holds donated to ME... sounds like those CCP guys are allowing known isk sellers to exist. i think the account should be suspended as soon as it become suspect and not allowed to trade any further. and i also dont think that blanket reversals are the answer either. the transactrion log needs closer analysis than that. isk sellers can play thier accoun ts too you know... and some of the purchases they make are legitimate im sure lets not punish the wider comunity for other peoples crimes I think this was clarified earlier, but I don't blame you for missing it :P Once someone is discovered to be an ISK seller, they go back and look at all their transactions. You might deal with a guy, and a week later he gets caught, THEN you get punished. Of course this leads to the question of what to do about people who suddenly take up ISK selling, how can they decide that this person has always been an ISK seller?

Omega Sinner	Posted - 2007.09.13 00:29:00 - [261] This thread is not just about one player and one incident..I want every incident that players have had were items and isk have been taken away by gm's here.. its time for a collective mind to stand and say this is happening.. whats going on. gm's need to take more care on there actions and investigate the situation before taking extreme action.. They need more training and more guidence on there actions before there aloud to make such decsions as to remove items and isk and in my oppinion only senior gm's should be the ones aloud to do such actions....once a proper investigation has been taken.. Not at a whime of a possible situation specially when a player has no idea who is buying there auctions or contracts and wether its dirty isk or ligit isk.. every system isn't perfect we are only human after all..but there are ways to fix a situation that is becoming increasingly more common and slowly making the paying consumer distrust the gm's and there actions and fear about selling anything for it being taken away.. Followed by a lengthy fight to get it back.. Most won't bother and just leave to find a different game.. Don't let a few isk sellers ruin a good game for other ligit players who want to play and trust they are looked well after.. Don't be vast and cold like your game can be show the fact you care about the ppl who make this game great fun to play.. the inforamtion about this one incident has been sent yet again..
Grawshellar	Posted - 2007.09.13 00:32:00 - [262] Originally by: Omega Sinner This thread is not just about one player and one incident..I want every incident that players have had were items and isk have been taken away by gm's here.. its time for a collective mind to stand and say this is happening.. whats going on. gm's need to take more care on there actions and investigate the situation before taking extreme action.. They need more training and more guidence on there actions before there aloud to make such decsions as to remove items and isk and in my oppinion only senior gm's should be the ones aloud to do such actions....once a proper investigation has been taken.. Not at a whime of a possible situation specially when a player has no idea who is buying there auctions or contracts and wether its dirty isk or ligit isk.. every system isn't perfect we are only human after all..but there are ways to fix a situation that is becoming increasingly more common and slowly making the paying consumer distrust the gm's and there actions and fear about selling anything for it being taken away.. Followed by a lengthy fight to get it back.. Most won't bother and just leave to find a different game.. Don't let a few isk sellers ruin a good game for other ligit players who want to play and trust they are looked well after.. Don't be vast and cold like your game can be show the fact you care about the ppl who make this game great fun to play.. the inforamtion about this one incident has been sent yet again.. If ya have trouble getting a response, or getting it forwarded to the proper place, you can also try [email protected] Good luck with your investigation, I hope it comes out in your friends favour.
Omega Sinner	Posted - 2007.09.13 00:35:00 - [263] Thank you for the info Grawshellar and for your support
Grawshellar	Posted - 2007.09.13 00:37:00 - [264] Originally by: Omega Sinner Thank you for the info Grawshellar and for your support No problem :P If ya don't mind, let us all know how it goes!
Omega Sinner	Posted - 2007.09.13 01:00:00 - [265] I will.. My intent with this post is not to slam ccp or its gm's its to try and bring forth a new thought process towards there actions and more caution with there extreme actions so that players aren't left wondering why this happened and should I continue in this game.. then it spreads making ppl wonder if they should sell anything on market for fear this might happen to them aswell.. proper procedures need to be put into place so this doesn't happen anymore.. a long fight to get something you know you didn't do anything wrong with is hard to follow through with..specially if nothing seems to be happening..
Omax1	Posted - 2007.09.13 02:20:00 - [266] Ok I am responding to this post because I can see that it is a heated topic and that GM's have been guilty of this before. I have 3 accounts two of which have now been cancelled, this one hasnt been cancelled yet because it is on a time card. I am the one that this has happened to, well one of my other toons on another account. So I well post exactly what happened to me....I log into my main account which is 3+ years old to discover that I have a negative balance around 900mill i think. I immediatly set out to find out what has happened... I do a journal search in my isk account to discover that a GM has taken out 1,010,000,000 isk from my account with no explenation.... I therefore petition to find out what has happened... the GM that responded was very short with me and simply said your being punished for recieving isk from a known isk seller and lists that name of that person.... I research more only to discover that this person purchased off of contracts a faction BS from me a couple of days earlier for the same price... I petition again this time a little more heated in my words.... I get the response back that basically I was SOL and thats what happens to isk buyers. Having come to expect this kind of BS from GM's and having spent far to long playing the game, enjoying it I might add. I send off another email this time to customer support from the website as a petition to a senior GM. I then continue to play the game and am working very hard to gain a + balance as I use this toon for research and industrial ops as well as combat, combat seems to be the only way to work your way out of a hole. So after around 25 or so lvl 4's and 2 days later im at around 350mill in the hole. In the mean time I do report isk farmers and isk sellers as well as buyers. No more than 6 hours after listing such an email to GM's via petition I log back into my account to discover that another 1 Billion isk has been taken out of my account.... well I'm pretty **ed now and again start the research proscess only to discover that there is a journal entry in my isk account listing a bunch of numbers next to a [r] for reason (Isk buying from some known isk seller). I then send a petition to guess who... a senior GM only to get the response that I am being punished for buying isk. After going back with this GM through several responses I get know where and no info for what I can do to stop what is happening to me. Heh by the way I get my response back from (Customer service) I use that word losely, that they appreciate my information and concerns but there is nothing they can do. So it is now 2am Pacific and I am pretty **ed.... and it takes alot to get me there. I have simply had enough of what CCP is calling GM's who do not investigate what is going on give no reasons and no proof of what they have found only punish someone who has for a long time put up with much, but enjoys the actual game itself. I apologize to anyone following this post for my late response as I am a business man who understands well what customer service really is and who succesfully runs a 10 million dollar retail store front. I am sure there will be plenty of people to pick this apart, but this is what has happened in this particular chain of events. I have given CCP the chance to make this right and can see that it is truly the players that make this game what it is. CCP has all the info on how to get ahold of me, but I have yet to hear a peep. Thanks to all who have posted in here who know me and how I play the game. I dont buy isk, I dont sell isk.... I did report those that do though. I have sent a second email to customer service on this very thing and have yet to recieve a response......that one had a few choice words in it as you can imagine.
pirategirl85	Posted - 2007.09.13 02:34:00 - [267] How long ago was the second removal of funds?
Omax1	Posted - 2007.09.13 02:36:00 - [268] Two Days after the first incident Originally by: pirategirl85 How long ago was the second removal of funds?
Sheylyn	Posted - 2007.09.13 02:59:00 - [269] you should send the info to Prism X as he was asking for the info on the problem as it is you who was affected (well your main toon was)
Traderboy 001	Posted - 2007.09.13 03:03:00 - [270] Quote: It isn't blatant abuse of GM power, abuse would indicate GM's would do it to futher their own goals, they aren't doing that but instead they are just following work procedures. Just to tweak the rampent BoB people..bet theres not a single BoB alt missing isk or getting banned



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