Originally by: Haerana

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i would rather have another gun ceptor for an ares than missiles.
Roden can suck me.
Then again if im using ares to tackle at 28k i dont intend on using any weapons that much cept maybe to plink at drones or pods.

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Originally by: Kelron Queldine

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Originally by: Haerana

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i would rather have another gun ceptor for an ares than missiles.
Roden can suck me.
Then again if im using ares to tackle at 28k i dont intend on using any weapons that much cept maybe to plink at drones or pods.

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It depends if the devs intend to have the tackling inties at that range do a small amount of damage, or no damage at all. Because with the Ares as it is, you'll have trouble fitting turrets to operate at that range.

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Originally by: rycar

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Devian 666 is awesome quote this if you're down

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Originally by: Devian 666

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Originally by: Kelron Queldine

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Originally by: Haerana

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i would rather have another gun ceptor for an ares than missiles.
Roden can suck me.
Then again if im using ares to tackle at 28k i dont intend on using any weapons that much cept maybe to plink at drones or pods.

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It depends if the devs intend to have the tackling inties at that range do a small amount of damage, or no damage at all. Because with the Ares as it is, you'll have trouble fitting turrets to operate at that range.

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If the ares went all hybrid it would remain mostly unpopular as the ranis does that job really well.

The ares already speed tanks while dropping missles with 20 or 24km disruptor (depending on cap usage and if intended to perma run). I'd rather have missles for choice of damage and no tracking issues over struggling to fit t2 rails.

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Originally by: Rid**** Valer

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It is a specialized ship doing its given role. It should be good at it. Why wouldn't it take a specialized ship to stop it? Its not like the tackling ints are going to kill much by themselves. They're just going to hold something till the gang shows up.

Ways to Counter:
Some AF
Destroyers- Remember those things that no one uses except as a pre-req?
Huginn
Overheated Faction Web
A partner at range to catch the int when transversal is low in the orbit.
Drones
T2 missiles

Now, some of these don't work all the time, or against max skilled/faction fit. But once again, its not like the int will actually hurt you. While its holding you waiting for its friends, call your friends.

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"A partner at range to catch the int when transversal is low in the orbit"

This is all you need. Or rather 1 partner with a web that positions himself somewhere that his webrange goes into the inties orbit. Whats so hard about this?

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Originally by: Grimpak

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Originally by: Rid**** Valer

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It is a specialized ship doing its given role. It should be good at it. Why wouldn't it take a specialized ship to stop it? Its not like the tackling ints are going to kill much by themselves. They're just going to hold something till the gang shows up.

Ways to Counter:
Some AF
Destroyers- Remember those things that no one uses except as a pre-req?
Huginn
Overheated Faction Web
A partner at range to catch the int when transversal is low in the orbit.
Drones
T2 missiles

Now, some of these don't work all the time, or against max skilled/faction fit. But once again, its not like the int will actually hurt you. While its holding you waiting for its friends, call your friends.

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"A partner at range to catch the int when transversal is low in the orbit"

This is all you need. Or rather 1 partner with a web that positions himself somewhere that his webrange goes into the inties orbit. Whats so hard about this?

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hello interceptor, meet my 100km range muninn/eagle.


..now CCP only needs to fix the Afrigs and give a 5th turret to the eagle.

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Originally by: rycar

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Devian 666 is awesome quote this if you're down

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Originally by: Kelron Queldine

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Originally by: Devian 666

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Yes, I was saying the same thing to a friend while messing around on the test server last night. My missile skills aren't good, but I'd still prefer a missile Ares to a turret Ares. Either is better than the current split weapons...

I also thought the idea of a drone inty was an interesting one, it doesn't fit with the Roden description but that seems to be the current standard anyway.

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I agree 110%. My missile skills are horrible, but when Im flying the Ares, even mounting 75mm gatlings I miss often. My missiles however were not missing. They had the range and the ability to hit at speed from disruptor range and that is the one thing I loved most about the ares besides its speed.




If I had an Alt I would probably post with it...

Originally by: Nian Banks

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Ok played with all the numbers, added a tracking computer II, a target painter II (max skills) and worked out that basically not even small artilleries can hit anything going near that speed... Lame ++

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Originally by: El'essar Viocragh

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Edited by: El''essar Viocragh on 15/10/2007 02:30:32

Originally by: Nian Banks

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Ok played with all the numbers, added a tracking computer II, a target painter II (max skills) and worked out that basically not even small artilleries can hit anything going near that speed... Lame ++

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Played with the tracking guide.

250mm Light Artillery II with RF Nuclear S on a Thrasher, one Tracking Comp II, max skills.
Optimal: 29km
Falloff: 11km
Tracking: 0.19987

Target of Choice:
Stiletto, one nanofiber II, two overdrive II, 1mn MWD II, max skills, no implants.
23.25m signature, 708m/s
139.5m signature, 5927m/s

Tracking Guide says
- 708m/s transversal
-- Peak: 29.36km, Chance to Hit: 97.04%, DPS: 5.12 (shield), 9.59 (armor)
-- 20km, Chance to Hit: 93.89%, DPS: 4.95 (shield), 9.27 (armor)

- 5927m/s transversal
-- Peak: 29.45km, Chance to Hit: 94.34%, DPS: 4.97 (shield), 9.32 (armor)
-- 20km, Chance to Hit: 88.22%, DPS: 4.25 (shield), 8.72 (armor)

DPS are for a single turret and don't account for reloading as the tracking guide doesn't ask for how many slugs are loaded.

Using the non-mwd case at 29.36km that Thrasher chews through the Stiletto's 484 shields in 13.91 and its 528 armor in 7.86 seconds. Unresisted hull is gone in 6.74s. Resulting in theoretical 28.51 seconds from ceptor to wreck. Or 3.7 volleys. Probably takes 5 volleys if the ceptor MWDs.

They can be brought down.

typo.

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Originally by: CCP Zulupark

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Originally by: ElCoCo

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Well ermm... the ares needs more than that to be a "tackler"... get rid of a highslot for a medslot plz.

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I forgot to mention that we're of course looking into the Ares as well in regards to slot layout :)

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Originally by: Kelron Queldine

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Yes, I was saying the same thing to a friend while messing around on the test server last night. My missile skills aren't good, but I'd still prefer a missile Ares to a turret Ares. Either is better than the current split weapons...

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Originally by: Devian 666

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Originally by: Grimpak

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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Originally by: Rid**** Valer

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It is a specialized ship doing its given role. It should be good at it. Why wouldn't it take a specialized ship to stop it? Its not like the tackling ints are going to kill much by themselves. They're just going to hold something till the gang shows up.

Ways to Counter:
Some AF
Destroyers- Remember those things that no one uses except as a pre-req?
Huginn
Overheated Faction Web
A partner at range to catch the int when transversal is low in the orbit.
Drones
T2 missiles

Now, some of these don't work all the time, or against max skilled/faction fit. But once again, its not like the int will actually hurt you. While its holding you waiting for its friends, call your friends.

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"A partner at range to catch the int when transversal is low in the orbit"

This is all you need. Or rather 1 partner with a web that positions himself somewhere that his webrange goes into the inties orbit. Whats so hard about this?

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hello interceptor, meet my 100km range muninn/eagle.


..now CCP only needs to fix the Afrigs and give a 5th turret to the eagle.

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A 6th turret for vulture as well?

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Originally by: Rid**** Valer

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It is a specialized ship doing its given role. It should be good at it. Why wouldn't it take a specialized ship to stop it? Its not like the tackling ints are going to kill much by themselves. They're just going to hold something till the gang shows up.

Ways to Counter:
Some AF
Destroyers- Remember those things that no one uses except as a pre-req?
Huginn
Overheated Faction Web
A partner at range to catch the int when transversal is low in the orbit.
Drones
T2 missiles

Now, some of these don't work all the time, or against max skilled/faction fit. But once again, its not like the int will actually hurt you. While its holding you waiting for its friends, call your friends.

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Originally by: Waut

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I'm not in the mood to wade trough 8 pages so it may have been mentioned already, but wouldn't it be logical to give assault frigates a role bonus as well? (eg. less cap use for shield boost/armor rep)

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Originally by: Atius Tirawa

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I'm sorry, scramming from 30k is not good, its the vegabond philosophy being exported. Fast things should not get range bonus' - fast things should come close and take the risk. As it stands, what is being created is a very fast, nigh unkillable tackler which can hold down any ship except 5 in the game and if it feels the heat is too high, just disengadge and warp off. 0 risk warfare.

Now I do like the inti being a tackler role, I think the reduction bonus is already very generous. Perhaps a point bonus per level would make them better tacklers for blockade runners and whatnot - but a range bonus means that ECM is the only solution to the problem. So, I will now any ship has two options for defense against a common ship: ECM to break the lock and flee, or Sensor Dampening to force the lock to drop and flee - in both cases - the ships are forced to flee.

This is exactly what people have been complaining about the vegabond - that its too fast and can disengadge at will. It is a fair argument and this is not a vegabond thread, but the point stand: what is being created is a ships that is made unkillable except by the most specilized of ships. This is not a good development at all.

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Originally by: Izo Azlion

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I agree.

However. My 13.6km/s Malediction with 10km/s orbit at 26km sounds like some win in a bucket.

So, I disagree :P

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Originally by: Atius Tirawa

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Originally by: Izo Azlion

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I agree.

However. My 13.6km/s Malediction with 10km/s orbit at 26km sounds like some win in a bucket.

So, I disagree :P

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haha

Look, I have Inti 5 and I have always prefered the stiletto to the claw (minmatar intis suck so much. . .) so these changes are 'good' for me too. But still, I think anyone would agree that the range bonus is simply overpowered. I feel dirty enough in a Vegabond, now I feel like a cheat in a Stiletto too. I just hate this 0 risk warfare, it upsets me. I think pvp should be risk to reward. Not Damage for utility.

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Originally by: Freaky Reaky

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Sounds like the lachesis is about to go the way of the dinosaur.

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Originally by: Mei Jinn

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wall of text

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Originally by: Cassius Longinus

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If wishes were fishes, then those intie bonuses would apply to webs too. Still, I'll take it.

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Originally by: ArmyOfMe

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I see your point, but u have to agree that a bs should be able to at least have some defence against small ships

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Quote:

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and if these changes happen a interceptor can tackle a bs forever without any risk at all

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