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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 7 post(s)
Mei Jinn	Posted - 2007.10.13 11:29:00 - [1] Name: Stiletto Hull: Slasher Class Role: Interceptor Interceptors utilize a combination of advanced alloys and electronics to reduce their effective signature radius. This, along with superior maneuverability and speed, makes them very hard to target and track, particularly for high caliber turrets. Developer: Core Complexion Core Complexion's ships are unusual in that they favor electronics and defense over the "Lots of guns" approach traditionally favored by the Minmatar. Minmatar Frigate Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret damage and 7.5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret tracking speed per level Interceptors Skill Bonus: 5% reduction in Signature Radius and 5% bonus to Warp Scrambler and Warp Disruptor range per level Role bonus: 80% reduction in Propulsion Jamming systems activation cost Name: Malediction Hull: Executioner Class Role: Interceptor Interceptors utilize a combination of advanced alloys and electronics to reduce their effective signature radius. This, along with superior maneuverability and speed, makes them very hard to target and track, particularly for high caliber turrets. Developer: Khanid Innovations In addition to robust electronics systems, the Khanid Kingdom's ships possess advanced armor alloys capable of withstanding a great deal of punishment. Generally eschewing the use of turrets, they tend to gear their vessels more towards close-range missile combat. Amarr Frigate Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to rocket damage and 5% bonus to armor resistances per level Interceptors Skill Bonus: 5% reduction in Signature Radius and 5% bonus to Warp Scrambler and Warp Disruptor range per level Role bonus: 80% reduction in Propulsion Jamming systems activation cost Whilst the up close and personal Anti-Inty-Inties get a 80% reduction in Warp Scram/Disrupt cap use. Unbelieveably good news. Come to Sisi and check it out
ArmyOfMe hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.10.13 11:33:00 - [2] Edited by: ArmyOfMe on 13/10/2007 11:35:59 come to think about it, this would be a very bad change for any bs since they will now allways be scramed from outside nos/neut range
Sleepkevert Paradox v2.0	Posted - 2007.10.13 11:34:00 - [3] Damn, talk about uber tacklers! Only thing is, won't this obsolete the lachesis a bit? Sign my sig
Mei Jinn	Posted - 2007.10.13 11:36:00 - [4] Yup this is true,at least on the rangy tacklers.
Tsia Synthetic Frontiers	Posted - 2007.10.13 11:37:00 - [5] Omg. Wtf? BBQ! This calls for a celebration. I love you CCP <3 <3 <3
Kanonus Amarr 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.10.13 11:38:00 - [6] Originally by: ArmyOfMe Edited by: ArmyOfMe on 13/10/2007 11:35:59 come to think about it, this would be a very bad change for any bs since they will now allways be scramed from outside nos/neut range Did it ever come to you that's exactly the idea behind it? As it is right now a ceptor is dead meat when tackling a BS with a neut (and the number of neut equipped BS is on the rise). The job of the intercetor is tackling. A job it fails horribly at right now. They are no alternative over a sabre as it is.
ArmyOfMe hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.10.13 11:40:00 - [7] Originally by: Kanonus Originally by: ArmyOfMe Edited by: ArmyOfMe on 13/10/2007 11:35:59 come to think about it, this would be a very bad change for any bs since they will now allways be scramed from outside nos/neut range Did it ever come to you that's exactly the idea behind it? As it is right now a ceptor is dead meat when tackling a BS with a neut (and the number of neut equipped BS is on the rise). The job of the intercetor is tackling. A job it fails horribly at right now. They are no alternative over a sabre as it is. I see your point, but u have to agree that a bs should be able to at least have some defence against small ships, and if these changes happen a interceptor can tackle a bs forever without any risk at all
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.13 11:40:00 - [8] holy ****. --- planetary interaction idea!
Kanonus Amarr 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.10.13 11:44:00 - [9] Originally by: ArmyOfMe Originally by: Kanonus Originally by: ArmyOfMe Edited by: ArmyOfMe on 13/10/2007 11:35:59 come to think about it, this would be a very bad change for any bs since they will now allways be scramed from outside nos/neut range Did it ever come to you that's exactly the idea behind it? As it is right now a ceptor is dead meat when tackling a BS with a neut (and the number of neut equipped BS is on the rise). The job of the intercetor is tackling. A job it fails horribly at right now. They are no alternative over a sabre as it is. I see your point, but u have to agree that a bs should be able to at least have some defence against small ships, and if these changes happen a interceptor can tackle a bs forever without any risk at all BS were never meant to be solo ships. Bring a friend. It's a mMog. That being said unless you are in a belt you can allways go for the gate. For webbign he still needs to enterer the world of pain.
iiOs Blood Corsair's	Posted - 2007.10.13 11:47:00 - [10] OMG ---------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- BB

Mei Jinn	Posted - 2007.10.13 11:53:00 - [11] Edited by: Mei Jinn on 13/10/2007 11:57:31 Edited by: Mei Jinn on 13/10/2007 11:54:00 Originally by: ArmyOfMe Edited by: ArmyOfMe on 13/10/2007 11:35:59 come to think about it, this would be a very bad change for any bs since they will now allways be scramed from outside nos/neut range Hehe as they say one man's meat is another man's poison ;p For me these changes are good,and yes good because they can scram outside of NOS range,oh and BTW I get 4.25 Energy costs/cycle on a T2 Warp disruptor (N.B with max Claymore GB I can get 39km scram range probably +40km with Inty LvL5)
ArmyOfMe hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.10.13 11:53:00 - [12] Originally by: Kanonus Originally by: ArmyOfMe Originally by: Kanonus Originally by: ArmyOfMe Edited by: ArmyOfMe on 13/10/2007 11:35:59 come to think about it, this would be a very bad change for any bs since they will now allways be scramed from outside nos/neut range Did it ever come to you that's exactly the idea behind it? As it is right now a ceptor is dead meat when tackling a BS with a neut (and the number of neut equipped BS is on the rise). The job of the intercetor is tackling. A job it fails horribly at right now. They are no alternative over a sabre as it is. I see your point, but u have to agree that a bs should be able to at least have some defence against small ships, and if these changes happen a interceptor can tackle a bs forever without any risk at all BS were never meant to be solo ships. Bring a friend. It's a mMog. That being said unless you are in a belt you can allways go for the gate. For webbign he still needs to enterer the world of pain. the answer to any problem in this game seems to be, bring more friends. Sorry, but i dont agree that it has to be needed to have either a curse or a huginn in a gang to be able to undock in anything bigger then a interceptor
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Hooligans Of War Insurgency	Posted - 2007.10.13 11:59:00 - [13] Sweet, add a Claymore to the gang and a T2 disruptor fitted on one of those tacklers will reach over 40km :D The distributed market hub
Mei Jinn	Posted - 2007.10.13 12:00:00 - [14] *I wonder if Goonswarm are doing a Jig over this*
MassonA Caldari coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.13 12:03:00 - [15] now if only the claw could lock further than an ibis
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.13 12:13:00 - [16] Originally by: Sleepkevert Damn, talk about uber tacklers! Only thing is, won't this obsolete the lachesis a bit? considering that a lach can scram at ranges over 50km with faction/gang bonuses/overheating, no. ...however I am seeing a point in slapping 2pointers in inties now. --- planetary interaction idea!
Central Scrutinizer RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.13 12:15:00 - [17] Yeah, bad idea, tbh. BS currently have two choices to detackle themselves: neutralizer, or damps/ECM. After this, there is one choice: damps/ECM. I thought we wanted this game to move away from fitting damps/ECM to non-bonused ships, but apparently I'm out of touch with the Eve community.
Trypho Minmatar Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.10.13 12:16:00 - [18] The Lachesis can easily damp the hell out of you and do decent damage itself, while a ceptor will rely on others... Except if it tackles like a pod --- Newsposter/contenteditor EVE - MMOZone.nl
Central Scrutinizer RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.13 12:21:00 - [19] Lachesis doesn't do "nice damage"....
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.13 12:22:00 - [20] Imo bad idea. I like perhaps cap reduction, range isn't needed though

Wild Rho Amarr Endgame.	Posted - 2007.10.13 12:22:00 - [21] The locking ranges of these new "tackling" inties may need looked at, although they do have the mids to mount a sensor booster for the same effect.
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.13 12:24:00 - [22] Originally by: Central Scrutinizer Lachesis doesn't do "nice damage".... Actually this isn't true. Fit 3x ham II and 2 200mm rails with 2 bcus and 1 mag stab and 5 t2 drones.
Stakhanov Katana's Edge	Posted - 2007.10.13 12:25:00 - [23] Yay , my Ares will be useful at last Originally by: F'nog One does not simply log into Jita.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.10.13 12:29:00 - [24] An easy solution to the range vs. neut problem would be to reduce the range of the web/scrambling modules so the specialised ship (the 'ceptor) would have unchanged range (or maybe slightly increased) range compared to today, but others would be reduced..... Not saying it would be a good idea..... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.13 12:31:00 - [25] thats more like it \o/
IamBen Caldari Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.10.13 12:32:00 - [26] yeah this is a good change. Oh well, there goes my uber crow though :) But still its cool
Lowanaera Amarr Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.13 12:37:00 - [27] Wow 7.5km scrams are useful again.
Haerana The Republican Guard The Sundering	Posted - 2007.10.13 12:37:00 - [28] just wow... Im wondering what CCP are going to change next. Seems to me like they are trying to do a complete overhaul of the game. ------------------------------- Here comes the sig............. The Cake is a Lie The Cake is a Lie The Cake is a Lie The Cake is a Lie
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.10.13 12:41:00 - [29] Well this blows, good bye fighting in falloff with the Stiletto ;( So it can tackle, cool. It does it in range, so I guess its going to only ever fit artillery now. Cool. Can I get a buff artillery thread going please. Now that more ships are been forced to use them and they are borked atmo.
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.13 12:41:00 - [30] I'd still prefer web strength boosted or web range or something to "stop" people, not to hold them down. That can be done good enough with other ships.

Acoco Osiris Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.10.13 12:42:00 - [31] Originally by: Kanonus That being said unless you are in a belt you can allways go for the gate. For webbign he still needs to enterer the world of pain. Actually there's dangers for interceptors in belts. The asteroids themselves are surprisingly difficult for interceptors to fly through. ------------------------------ One more soldier off to war... And one Velator in my hangars.
Tuomas Oravainen Caldari Rosvosektori Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.10.13 12:50:00 - [32] Pretty good change, finally some use for those ships. I hope they'll change ares' slot layout though, 2 mid slots isn't really all that good. Could use a third for a sensor booster at least.
Trypho Minmatar Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.10.13 12:53:00 - [33] Originally by: Central Scrutinizer Lachesis doesn't do "nice damage".... It does if you count in that your opponent doesn`t do damage at all --- Newsposter/contenteditor EVE - MMOZone.nl
MITSUK0	Posted - 2007.10.13 13:20:00 - [34] I really dont want to lose an offensive bonus on my stiletto Its my little ceptor that could. Also totally underrated with its current bonuses. Bah.
Sc0rphion	Posted - 2007.10.13 13:28:00 - [35] Originally by: ArmyOfMe Originally by: Kanonus Originally by: ArmyOfMe Edited by: ArmyOfMe on 13/10/2007 11:35:59 come to think about it, this would be a very bad change for any bs since they will now allways be scramed from outside nos/neut range Did it ever come to you that's exactly the idea behind it? As it is right now a ceptor is dead meat when tackling a BS with a neut (and the number of neut equipped BS is on the rise). The job of the intercetor is tackling. A job it fails horribly at right now. They are no alternative over a sabre as it is. I see your point, but u have to agree that a bs should be able to at least have some defence against small ships, and if these changes happen a interceptor can tackle a bs forever without any risk at all Are you really a morsus mihi? I believed that they knew their thing but u are the big dissapoint and exception the word DRONES its something to you? and the word BShAveSoMUcHDrOnECapability also??? or you think that drones canot du EW or even worst FIGHT Dont post crap like this only becouse you want to flame the changes... And see this. You are the only one full of crap
ArmyOfMe hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.10.13 13:32:00 - [36] Edited by: ArmyOfMe on 13/10/2007 13:32:52 Originally by: Sc0rphion the word DRONES its something to you? and the word BShAveSoMUcHDrOnECapability also??? or you think that drones canot du EW or even worst FIGHT Dont post crap like this only becouse you want to flame the changes... And see this. You are the only one full of crap Have you ever tried hitting a fast interceptor orbiting at 20-30km at all? Not sure what planet u come from m8, but as far as i can see i havnt flamed the changes at all, i pointed out things that worries both me and other ppl. The only one flaming here is you. Ps: unlike you i at least dear to have my corp ticker showing
Atius Tirawa Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.13 13:37:00 - [37] a very bad change. It makes intis too powerful against larger ships. The NoS nurf was enough - this is just pure bad. As stated before, BBs don't have a real defense against these small ships. Their reduced sig is already bad, but this adds a new level of inti gankage. The Stilleto has very poor DPS, but the Malidiction is going to rule the skys now.
Sangxianc Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.13 13:40:00 - [38] A flat 80% reduction is way overboard in my opinion, should be 50%. A sensor booster/signal amplifier is required now if you're going to fit a faction disruptor or fly with a command ship, so that's too bad again for the Ares who has to make do with the crap one (sig amp). Still with stock T2 it'll be much improved.
Forsch Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.13 13:55:00 - [39] Kinda bad for the malediction. What good is that rocket bonus if your new bonus is better tackling range. We'll see.. Forsch Defender of the empire
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War	Posted - 2007.10.13 14:08:00 - [40] The 80% role bonus for propulsion jamming reduction costs is a good change. Tech-2 warp-disruptors plus some other active modules suck too much cap on my Stilletto imho. Don't like the range bonus, I think. Nosing got nerfed, neutralizers don't get used that much like nos (before) and the cycle time probably means that you are able to regenerate some cap during one cycle, especially if you fit for it and assume, you get the 80% role bonus. So don't really see the reason for more range. Fit a true sansha or domination warp disruptor, if you want more range or overload for a short-time. (Ok, I can't overload yet)

Kap Lan	Posted - 2007.10.13 14:13:00 - [41] Originally by: ArmyOfMe I see your point, but u have to agree that a bs should be able to at least have some defence against small ships, and if these changes happen a interceptor can tackle a bs forever without any risk at all What about T2 light drones? I have very little experience in PVP, so perhaps I'm off base. But it seems that five Hobgoblin II drones, for example, would eat up an interceptor. They certainly have no problem eating up Spider Drone IIs and other very fast, little ships in PVE.
ArmyOfMe hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.10.13 14:16:00 - [42] Originally by: Kap Lan Originally by: ArmyOfMe I see your point, but u have to agree that a bs should be able to at least have some defence against small ships, and if these changes happen a interceptor can tackle a bs forever without any risk at all What about T2 light drones? I have very little experience in PVP, so perhaps I'm off base. But it seems that five Hobgoblin II drones, for example, would eat up an interceptor. They certainly have no problem eating up Spider Drone IIs and other very fast, little ships in PVE. those spider drones doest even come close to the speed of a interceptor, neither does small drones sadly, and there is the problem
Elliott Manchild omen. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.13 14:17:00 - [43] Originally by: Kap Lan Originally by: ArmyOfMe I see your point, but u have to agree that a bs should be able to at least have some defence against small ships, and if these changes happen a interceptor can tackle a bs forever without any risk at all What about T2 light drones? I have very little experience in PVP, so perhaps I'm off base. But it seems that five Hobgoblin II drones, for example, would eat up an interceptor. They certainly have no problem eating up Spider Drone IIs and other very fast, little ships in PVE. Lets take for example, a well setup crow, without snakes you can easily get them over 10km per second and they are the most used interceptor. How can t2 light drones catch this? ;p
Malibu Stacey Gallente Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.13 14:28:00 - [44] Can anyone copy & paste the description for the damage dealer tacklers (Taranis, Crusader, Claw) please? This is nice but sucks for the Ares unless they unbugger it's slot layout & split weapon hardpoints. --- Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
Plave Okice Gallente 5hockWave	Posted - 2007.10.13 14:30:00 - [45] Given that the only real use for the Ares is as a cheap tackler this is more like an Ares boost.
Cailais Amarr VITOC Fang Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.13 14:31:00 - [46] *"Interceptors Skill Bonus: 5% reduction in Signature Radius and 5% bonus to Warp Scrambler and Warp Disruptor range per level"* Yeeeeeehhaaaa! Awesome, simply brilliant!! /me runs to his Malediction C. - sig designer - eve mail
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.10.13 14:33:00 - [47] Edited by: Death Kill on 13/10/2007 14:33:30 Originally by: Kanonus BS were never meant to be solo ships. Bring a friend. It's a mMog. That being said unless you are in a belt you can allways go for the gate. For webbign he still needs to enterer the world of pain. What an idiot reply. Just because a bs is able to somehow make a smaller ship not being able to tackle it doesnt mean its a solo ship. This change is STUPID, UTTER STUPID: Beware of the inty gang, 15 intys will own 15 battleships. Call to arms!!!
Cailais Amarr VITOC Fang Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.13 14:43:00 - [48] Originally by: Death Kill Edited by: Death Kill on 13/10/2007 14:33:30 Originally by: Kanonus BS were never meant to be solo ships. Bring a friend. It's a mMog. That being said unless you are in a belt you can allways go for the gate. For webbign he still needs to enterer the world of pain. What an idiot reply. Just because a bs is able to somehow make a smaller ship not being able to tackle it doesnt mean its a solo ship. This change is STUPID, UTTER STUPID: Beware of the inty gang, 15 intys will own 15 battleships. Indeed. The Battleship Era is over, the new Frigate Era has begun. Interceptors, EW Frigates, HACs and Hacdictors will dominate the face of Eve. C. - sig designer - eve mail
Elmicker Black Sea Industries Cult of War	Posted - 2007.10.13 14:45:00 - [49] Edited by: Elmicker on 13/10/2007 14:45:34 Speaking as a near-dedicated crow pilot, this change is a tad ridiculous. It's gonna make crows absolutely untouchable as a tackler. Scrambling from 28.8km and running their mwd and disruptor forever. Good luck hitting a crow going 7km/s around you at 25km. Oh, and that's the T2 fit. Domi/Gistii fit, you're talking 35km, going even faster.
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.13 14:57:00 - [50] Originally by: Elmicker Edited by: Elmicker on 13/10/2007 14:50:40 Speaking as a near-dedicated crow pilot, this change is a tad ridiculous. It's gonna make crows absolutely untouchable as a tackler. Scrambling from 28.8km and running their mwd and disruptor forever. Good luck hitting a crow going 7km/s around you at 25km. Oh, and that's the T2 fit. Domi/Gistii fit, you're talking 35km, going even faster. edit: lol. Crow with faction disruptor will likely outrange most huginns' webs. Excuse my ignorance (I'm mostly a missile user), but won't the larger orbit range translate to a lower angular velocity? Traversing a 35Km radius orbit at 7Km/s gives, hmmm... ~0.2 r/s. Or will this still be too high to matter? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.

velocity7	Posted - 2007.10.13 15:01:00 - [51] Here's the full list of changes at the moment.
Stakhanov Katana's Edge	Posted - 2007.10.13 15:08:00 - [52] Uber inty buff Malediction makes no sense though - rockets with scram range bonus ? Originally by: F'nog One does not simply log into Jita.
Elmicker Black Sea Industries Cult of War	Posted - 2007.10.13 15:12:00 - [53] Edited by: Elmicker on 13/10/2007 15:12:31 Originally by: Malcanis Excuse my ignorance (I'm mostly a missile user), but won't the larger orbit range translate to a lower angular velocity? Traversing a 35Km radius orbit at 7Km/s gives, hmmm... ~0.2 r/s. Or will this still be too high to matter? A megathron's 425s track at 0.02r/s. You'd need something like a muninn with a couple of tracking mods and smaller ACs to hit it with any success. Missiles will do 0.0 damage. Just run it through eft and a max-skilled muninn (which gets a tracking bonus with its HAC skill) with 220 ACs will track at 0.201 before tracking mods. However, even using carbonized lead (the long range t1 ammo), you don't come anywhere close to 35km range. You can manage it with barrage, but then you take a tracking hit down to 0.15. So basically, they're untouchable unless they're webbed, and considering they can now outrange the specialised webbing ship, it's starting to get a bit silly.
ElCoCo KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.13 15:13:00 - [54] Originally by: velocity7 Here's the full list of changes at the moment. Ok then false alarm, crow/ranis/sader/claw are not getting the scramble range bonus. That would have been insane.
Unaralas V i r u s	Posted - 2007.10.13 15:15:00 - [55] Uhmm... the crow doesn't get the scram range bonus dude. Raptor does ______________________
Tonto Auri	Posted - 2007.10.13 15:17:00 - [56] Originally by: Central Scrutinizer Yeah, bad idea, tbh. BS currently have two choices to detackle themselves: neutralizer, or damps/ECM. After this, there is one choice: damps/ECM. I thought we wanted this game to move away from fitting damps/ECM to non-bonused ships, but apparently I'm out of touch with the Eve community. Drones, smarts, friends. -- Thanks CCP for cu<end of sig>
Elmicker Black Sea Industries Cult of War	Posted - 2007.10.13 15:17:00 - [57] Originally by: Unaralas Uhmm... the crow doesn't get the scram range bonus dude. Raptor does Then replace everywhere i've said "Crow" with "Raptor" or whatever inty you prefer to fly. Inties don't kill things, they tackle. However, the point still stands about the crow now being able to constantly run its mwd + point. Previously it could only keep that up for a minute or so.
Tonto Auri	Posted - 2007.10.13 15:23:00 - [58] Originally by: Forsch Kinda bad for the malediction. What good is that rocket bonus if your new bonus is better tackling range. We'll see.. Better tackling range is about to catch Your enemy sooner. I still prefer to orbit at 3-5km and lay out my missile bays than staying at range and wait when the next shoot will hit me or not. -- Thanks CCP for cu<end of sig>
Udyr Vulpayne Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.13 15:35:00 - [59] Originally by: Forsch Kinda bad for the malediction. What good is that rocket bonus if your new bonus is better tackling range. We'll see.. wondering about this one myself. at least one of the bonuses will be pretty useless on the maled. not that em missile damage was all that awesome before.
Elmicker Black Sea Industries Cult of War	Posted - 2007.10.13 15:37:00 - [60] Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne wondering about this one myself. at least one of the bonuses will be pretty useless on the maled. not that em missile damage was all that awesome before. Just fly and fit it like a crow. Remember your job is to tackle, not to kill things.

Rodamus Zero Gallente Nova Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.13 15:40:00 - [61] "Unlike most Gallente ship manufacturers, Roden Shipyards tend to favor missiles over drones and their ships generaly possess stronger armor. Their electronics capacity, however, tends to be weaker than ships from their competitors." Changes to... "Unlike most Gallente ship manufacturers, Roden Shipyards tend to favor missiles over drones and their ships are generally faster than other Gallente ship in their class. They generally have a substantial amount of hull modifications but limited electronic systems." So... the Ares no longer has a missile bonus and now will come with an advantage to "electronics systems" where the Scramble range bonus comes into play... and slightly off the Ceptor topic to deal with Roden Shipyards, the Enyo may have missile hardpoints but no missile bonus. The changed description ties in with both the Ares and the Enyo... yet, whats happening with Roden Shipyards? a fair point their ships have missile hardpoints over a drone bay but now their Ceptor has a dedicated tackle bonus over its missle advantage. Back to Ceptors, personally, the 80% cap reduction is a tad excessive, 50% sounds a better option while still needing a slight bit of micro managment if you dont have top notch skills etc. 13.5 AU/s warp speed on the tackling bonused Ceptors? that definantly IS an Interceptor with the "damage" dealing Ceptors remaining at 9 AU/s As someone mentioned earlier, now there is a reason to be fitting 2pointers on Ceptors. - Tell Them, Zero was Here.
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.13 15:40:00 - [62] Originally by: Elmicker Edited by: Elmicker on 13/10/2007 15:12:31 Originally by: Malcanis Excuse my ignorance (I'm mostly a missile user), but won't the larger orbit range translate to a lower angular velocity? Traversing a 35Km radius orbit at 7Km/s gives, hmmm... ~0.2 r/s. Or will this still be too high to matter? A megathron's 425s track at 0.02r/s. You'd need something like a muninn with a couple of tracking mods and smaller ACs to hit it with any success. Missiles will do 0.0 damage. Just run it through eft and a max-skilled muninn (which gets a tracking bonus with its HAC skill) with 220 ACs will track at 0.201 before tracking mods. However, even using carbonized lead (the long range t1 ammo), you don't come anywhere close to 35km range. You can manage it with barrage, but then you take a tracking hit down to 0.15. So basically, they're untouchable unless they're webbed, and considering they can now outrange the specialised webbing ship, it's starting to get a bit silly. Gosh, that's terrible. eyes Caldari Frigate 5 and Interceptors 4 on character sheet thoughtfully CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Julius Romanus Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2007.10.13 15:41:00 - [63] The range bonus is pointless on the Malediction. Being able to lay a point at 28km is no different than 24 when you're orbiting at 17km at 4-9kmss depending on fit. It's 1 second of flight time further out. Its absolute max lock range before mods is 28km so by the time you actually lock someone, you'll be well inside normal scram range. The power reduction is nice. But give it a web range bonus if you want to start messing with range. also, one final thing, nothing that does less than 90dps is overpowered. =P
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War	Posted - 2007.10.13 15:44:00 - [64] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Elmicker Edited by: Elmicker on 13/10/2007 14:50:40 Speaking as a near-dedicated crow pilot, this change is a tad ridiculous. It's gonna make crows absolutely untouchable as a tackler. Scrambling from 28.8km and running their mwd and disruptor forever. Good luck hitting a crow going 7km/s around you at 25km. Oh, and that's the T2 fit. Domi/Gistii fit, you're talking 35km, going even faster. edit: lol. Crow with faction disruptor will likely outrange most huginns' webs. Excuse my ignorance (I'm mostly a missile user), but won't the larger orbit range translate to a lower angular velocity? Traversing a 35Km radius orbit at 7Km/s gives, hmmm... ~0.2 r/s. Or will this still be too high to matter? I've just tried it out in the tracking guide. Chance to hit an mwd-crow going 7km/sec with my 800mm autocannon tempest is about zero at all ranges with one tracking comp and 180mm sig radius for the crow due to mwd usage. ) The chance to hit is already tiny/about zero at much lower speeds, so even 425mm tech-2 won't be able to track it.
Pattern Clarc Reikoku	Posted - 2007.10.13 16:01:00 - [65] Originally by: Julius Romanus The range bonus is pointless on the Malediction. Being able to lay a point at 28km is no different than 24 when you're orbiting at 17km at 4-9kmss depending on fit. It's 1 second of flight time further out. Its absolute max lock range before mods is 28km so by the time you actually lock someone, you'll be well inside normal scram range. The power reduction is nice. But give it a web range bonus if you want to start messing with range. also, one final thing, nothing that does less than 90dps is overpowered. =P propultion jamming = web's, and scrambs iirc Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
mallina Caldari Sybrite Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.13 16:05:00 - [66] Originally by: Elmicker So basically, they're untouchable unless they're webbed, and considering they can now outrange the specialised webbing ship, it's starting to get a bit silly. Not many people fly Interceptors these days, it's all about speedtanked HACs (which are essentially Interceptors with DPS that are much harder to kill) This would at least get people flying Inties more. ---
Nomme Mugen Shipyards	Posted - 2007.10.13 16:08:00 - [67] Edited by: Nomme on 13/10/2007 16:09:15 I thought I would add my 2pennyworth to this discussion. Being a heavy malediction user for a long while,I can say this boost is a good thing. Just fit a 2+ Scram on the ship and you get a nice 10km range,this is with Inty lvl4,...5 would give you +10 range which would keep you within a hairsbreadth of web range,and coincidentally at max rocket range. So what initially looks bad actually isn't. The Malediction before this boost wasn't any use with a 20km scram anyway and was never a damage dealer like the MuscleInties,(Taranis,Crusader ect).so its a moot point anyway. My understanding of this buff is that CCP want to make the dedicated tackler Inties more suited to the role,and let the MuscleInties more durable in close in dirty tackling. (Oh and to the poster that said it wasn't possible to keep a T2 20km scram running with the correct fit,it is cap boosters and Beta lows,I could keep a puppy running way long enough to kill a BS).
Trixie Baggz Pyrrhus Sicarii	Posted - 2007.10.13 16:11:00 - [68] Originally by: Sc0rphion Originally by: ArmyOfMe Originally by: Kanonus Originally by: ArmyOfMe Edited by: ArmyOfMe on 13/10/2007 11:35:59 come to think about it, this would be a very bad change for any bs since they will now allways be scramed from outside nos/neut range Did it ever come to you that's exactly the idea behind it? As it is right now a ceptor is dead meat when tackling a BS with a neut (and the number of neut equipped BS is on the rise). The job of the intercetor is tackling. A job it fails horribly at right now. They are no alternative over a sabre as it is. I see your point, but u have to agree that a bs should be able to at least have some defence against small ships, and if these changes happen a interceptor can tackle a bs forever without any risk at all Are you really a morsus mihi? I believed that they knew their thing but u are the big dissapoint and exception the word DRONES its something to you? and the word BShAveSoMUcHDrOnECapability also??? or you think that drones canot du EW or even worst FIGHT Dont post crap like this only becouse you want to flame the changes... And see this. You are the only one full of crap You are the worst thing about these forums and quite possibly the world.
Tuschii Filthy Scum	Posted - 2007.10.13 16:22:00 - [69] Originally by: Cailais Edited by: Cailais on 13/10/2007 15:03:43 Originally by: Death Kill Edited by: Death Kill on 13/10/2007 14:33:30 Originally by: Kanonus BS were never meant to be solo ships. Bring a friend. It's a mMog. That being said unless you are in a belt you can allways go for the gate. For webbign he still needs to enterer the world of pain. What an idiot reply. Just because a bs is able to somehow make a smaller ship not being able to tackle it doesnt mean its a solo ship. This change is STUPID, UTTER STUPID: Beware of the inty gang, 15 intys will own 15 battleships. Indeed. The Battleship Era is over, the new Frigate Era has begun. Interceptors, EW Frigates, HACs and Hacdictors will dominate the face of Eve. C. Quoted For awesome Thanks CCP for allowing ships to do their jobs.

CCP Zulupark	Posted - 2007.10.13 16:31:00 - [70] Indeed, we are intending these changes to allow the Ares, Malediction. Raptor and Stiletto more of a 'tackler' role, these ships now have the option of going for the long range warp scramble, but doing so will sacrifice pretty much all their damage, so they will in fact only be useful in gangs. Another thing we looked at regarding this, is that if people want to fully utilize faction disruptors and overload them to get obscene ranges, they have to sacrifice a midslot for a sensor booster, or a lowslot for a signal amplifier. You can of course still use these ships as you did before by fitting a +2 warp scrambler instead of a disruptor. The 'damage' interceptors will now be able to run their warp disruptor+mwd indefinetly, but they will however have to stay inside of NOS/Neutralizer range to do so.


Incantare Caldari Darkness Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.13 16:38:00 - [71] These are good changed, if very slow to come.
ElCoCo KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.13 16:38:00 - [72] Well ermm... the ares needs more than that to be a "tackler"... get rid of a highslot for a medslot plz.

CCP Zulupark	Posted - 2007.10.13 16:39:00 - [73] Originally by: ElCoCo Well ermm... the ares needs more than that to be a "tackler"... get rid of a highslot for a medslot plz. I forgot to mention that we're of course looking into the Ares as well in regards to slot layout :)

Elmicker Black Sea Industries Cult of War	Posted - 2007.10.13 16:43:00 - [74] Originally by: CCP Zulupark but doing so will sacrifice pretty much all their damage, so they will in fact only be useful in gangs. A flawed argument. Interceptors are only useful as gang ships anyway, because they deal nearly no damage. Though, i suppose this doesnt matter as the inties this applies to were never used at all before (except maybe the amarr one). They might see the light of day now. Quote: You can of course still use these ships as you did before by fitting a +2 warp scrambler instead of a disruptor. a 9km scrambler + 25% range is still only 11.25km. That's so close to web range that it'll never be a viable choice over the 30km a t2 disruptor gives you, especially now there are no cap issues at all. Quote: The 'damage' interceptors will now be able to run their warp disruptor+mwd indefinetly, but they will however have to stay inside of NOS/Neutralizer range to do so. Yay. Crow can finally use both meds for tackling purposes . Might the webbing rocket crow make a comeback?
Zhecao Vai Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.13 16:46:00 - [75] Originally by: Elmicker Originally by: velocity7 With the right setup, you can get an MWD and scram on a target constantly as well. Not without compromising on speed, which makes you vulnerable to missiles, and some turrets. That just isn't true. Most Crow pilots with a brain fit 3 speed mods in the lows and a MWD, WD, and micro cap booster in the mid, which results in perma-MWD+scram as long as they have booster charges. No special skills required.
ElCoCo KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.13 16:47:00 - [76] Originally by: CCP Zulupark Originally by: ElCoCo Well ermm... the ares needs more than that to be a "tackler"... get rid of a highslot for a medslot plz. I forgot to mention that we're of course looking into the Ares as well in regards to slot layout :) Oh my

CCP Zulupark	Posted - 2007.10.13 16:53:00 - [77] Originally by: ElCoCo Originally by: CCP Zulupark Originally by: ElCoCo Well ermm... the ares needs more than that to be a "tackler"... get rid of a highslot for a medslot plz. I forgot to mention that we're of course looking into the Ares as well in regards to slot layout :) Oh my Keep your pants on, I just said we're looking into it ;)

Elmicker Black Sea Industries Cult of War	Posted - 2007.10.13 16:54:00 - [78] Quote: Most Crow pilots with a brain fit 3 speed mods in the lows and a MWD, WD, and micro cap booster in the mid, which results in perma-MWD+scram as long as they have booster charges. to permarun requires you to use cap 75s. You have 77m3 cargo hold. The charges are 3m3 each, that's a lovely 25 charges. 12s RoF on an electrochemical micro injector, you've got 300 seconds of perma-run. 5 minutes of combat before you have to go back to a friendly station and pick up more charges. Cap recharger and micromanagement is the better choice.
Dylan Rhade Caldari UK Corp	Posted - 2007.10.13 16:56:00 - [79] Ok now i am baffled, this isnt a nerf, this is an upgrade. Has CCP been taken over by intelligent people? D If my views represent the views of my corporation and alliance, then you, sir/madam, are a spoon
Udyr Vulpayne Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.13 16:56:00 - [80] Originally by: Elmicker Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne wondering about this one myself. at least one of the bonuses will be pretty useless on the maled. not that em missile damage was all that awesome before. Just fly and fit it like a crow. Remember your job is to tackle, not to kill things. with the slight difference that a crow would be able to use all its bonuses at that range. hence: "at least one of the bonuses will be pretty useless on the maled."

Shar'Tuk TheHated	Posted - 2007.10.13 16:59:00 - [81] This is awesome news! About time! DRINK RUM It fights scurvy & boosts morale! THE BEATINGS WILL CONTINUE UNTIL MORALE IMPROVES!
Elmicker Black Sea Industries Cult of War	Posted - 2007.10.13 16:59:00 - [82] Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne with the slight difference that a crow would be able to use all its bonuses at that range. hence: "at least one of the bonuses will be pretty useless on the maled." Heh, i suppose. But i don't think the bonuses on the crow really matter when a maxed pilot will be doing 64 dps.
ElCoCo KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.13 17:10:00 - [83] Originally by: CCP Zulupark Keep your pants on, I just said we're looking into it ;) Heh, well ok, I'm not that excited... it would just be nice... there are more important stuff I'm anxious for
Sangxianc Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.13 17:14:00 - [84] Looks like the MWD/disruptor/EWofchoice inty will be a popular tackling choice when this hits TQ. (Unless you fly Gallente.) It's too bad you guys are nerfing RSDs before inties get a chance to be overpowered with them. Originally by: CCP Zulupark I forgot to mention that we're of course looking into the Ares as well in regards to slot layout :) That's interesting to hear. Do you think it likely that you'll have decided whether to change the Ares before you introduce these new bonuses? Also, does the altered Roden Shipyards description mean that you are considering reassessing the rest of the Pink Fleet?
Bein Glorious GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.13 17:17:00 - [85] DON'T FORGET THE RAPTOR DEAR GOD assault frigates too

CCP Zulupark	Posted - 2007.10.13 17:19:00 - [86] Originally by: Sangxianc Looks like the MWD/disruptor/EWofchoice inty will be a popular tackling choice when this hits TQ. (Unless you fly Gallente.) It's too bad you guys are nerfing RSDs before inties get a chance to be overpowered with them. Originally by: CCP Zulupark I forgot to mention that we're of course looking into the Ares as well in regards to slot layout :) That's interesting to hear. Do you think it likely that you'll have decided whether to change the Ares before you introduce these new bonuses? Also, does the altered Roden Shipyards description mean that you are considering reassessing the rest of the Pink Fleet? I have no idea about the Roden Shipyard stuff, that's outside my field of work tbh, but we will look at the Ares before these changes make it to TQ.

Lisa Ikura New World Disorders	Posted - 2007.10.13 17:20:00 - [87] Originally by: CCP Zulupark Indeed, we are intending these changes to allow the Ares, Malediction. Raptor and Stiletto more of a 'tackler' role, these ships now have the option of going for the long range warp scramble, but doing so will sacrifice pretty much all their damage, so they will in fact only be useful in gangs. Another thing we looked at regarding this, is that if people want to fully utilize faction disruptors and overload them to get obscene ranges, they have to sacrifice a midslot for a sensor booster, or a lowslot for a signal amplifier. You can of course still use these ships as you did before by fitting a +2 warp scrambler instead of a disruptor. The 'damage' interceptors will now be able to run their warp disruptor+mwd indefinetly, but they will however have to stay inside of NOS/Neutralizer range to do so. So what your saying is that its a intended feature that a interceptor will be able to tackle a bs without the bs having any sort of defence against it?
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.13 17:26:00 - [88] Originally by: CCP Zulupark I have no idea about the Roden Shipyard stuff, that's outside my field of work tbh, but we will look at the Ares before these changes make it to TQ. No need, ive done it for you. With 2 meds, and 4 lows, the Ares is fine, and perfectly inline with all the other "tackle" interceptors with 6 total med/low slots.

CCP Zulupark	Posted - 2007.10.13 17:29:00 - [89] Originally by: Lisa Ikura So what your saying is that its a intended feature that a interceptor will be able to tackle a bs without the bs having any sort of defence against it? I'm saying that Ares, Malediction, Raptor and Stiletto will be able to lay down +1 warp scramble from up to 30km (approx) on a battleships, and the battleship will not be able to do much about it... except maybe MWD to a gate or station, call in friends (cause there's NO way that these interceptors will break a BS's tank from that range) or.... or.. or.. maybe not fly around in a BS solo without a scout? The Arazu and Lachesis can also do this, and much more effectively, scrambling up to 40km range (or more) and sensor dampen their target completely. There's nothing a solo BS can do against that either.

Sc0rphion	Posted - 2007.10.13 17:30:00 - [90] Now that the attention of CCP is in the post mmm mmaybe try to add a Crusier that works with damage bonus to AMarrians people Why all have? and amarrians no? BTW sometimes one of you CCp guys told that Lasers eat caps so much becouse in theory they hit harder than another weapons.... YOu ppl are liers And you also told that your khanid changes will add Lasers and Missiles !! and after a time you will put more missiles .. Just becoz need time to ppl train the skillss NOW IS TIME.. to add more missiles launcher to the khanid ships ;) Thanks CCP And dont forget.. God said... U Will NOt NErf AMarrians Or was joda? ...

mallina Caldari Sybrite Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.13 17:31:00 - [91] Does this mean the Crusader is going to lose it's Tracking Bonus? ---

CCP Zulupark	Posted - 2007.10.13 17:33:00 - [92] Originally by: mallina Does this mean the Crusader is going to lose it's Tracking Bonus? Crow, Claw, Crusader and Taranis will not have their bonuses changed one bit, they only get the new role bonus added.

Udyr Vulpayne Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.13 17:38:00 - [93] Originally by: CCP Zulupark Originally by: mallina Does this mean the Crusader is going to lose it's Tracking Bonus? Crow, Claw, Crusader and Taranis will not have their bonuses changed one bit, they only get the new role bonus added. for the malediction it just means that amarrians will once more fit unbonused weapons to their ships....everything back to normal so to speak.
ArmyOfMe hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.10.13 17:39:00 - [94] Originally by: CCP Zulupark The Arazu and Lachesis can also do this, and much more effectively, scrambling up to 40km range (or more) and sensor dampen their target completely. There's nothing a solo BS can do against that either. Imo your wrong on this point, ive to date not ever run into a single lachesis or arazu that have been able to outrun my small drones, a interceptor on the other hand has no problems with that at all
Shoukei Boobs Ahoy	Posted - 2007.10.13 17:41:00 - [95] Originally by: CCP Zulupark I'm saying that Ares, Malediction, Raptor and Stiletto will be able to lay down +1 warp scramble from up to 30km (approx) on a battleships, and the battleship will not be able to do much about it... except maybe MWD to a gate or station, call in friends (cause there's NO way that these interceptors will break a BS's tank from that range) or.... or.. or.. maybe not fly around in a BS solo without a scout? The Arazu and Lachesis can also do this, and much more effectively, scrambling up to 40km range (or more) and sensor dampen their target completely. There's nothing a solo BS can do against that either. will the locking range on these ceptors be boosted as well? right now they cant lock beyond 22km. here be signatures!

CCP Zulupark	Posted - 2007.10.13 17:43:00 - [96] Originally by: Shoukei Originally by: CCP Zulupark I'm saying that Ares, Malediction, Raptor and Stiletto will be able to lay down +1 warp scramble from up to 30km (approx) on a battleships, and the battleship will not be able to do much about it... except maybe MWD to a gate or station, call in friends (cause there's NO way that these interceptors will break a BS's tank from that range) or.... or.. or.. maybe not fly around in a BS solo without a scout? The Arazu and Lachesis can also do this, and much more effectively, scrambling up to 40km range (or more) and sensor dampen their target completely. There's nothing a solo BS can do against that either. will the locking range on these ceptors be boosted as well? right now they cant lock beyond 22km. Actually they can lock up to about 30km with skills (22km is just the base). This is fully intended.

Sangxianc Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.13 17:48:00 - [97] Edited by: Sangxianc on 13/10/2007 17:48:05 <whoops too slow>
Kayosoni Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.13 17:56:00 - [98] it's about ****in time for this change. ----------------------------------- btw, threatening to close 1 account really hurt my eyes. - xaioguai
ElCoCo KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.13 17:58:00 - [99] Originally by: Goumindong No need, ive done it for you. With 2 meds, and 4 lows, the Ares is fine, and perfectly inline with all the other "tackle" interceptors with 6 total med/low slots. You mean like the stiletto?
Cippalippus Primus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.13 18:05:00 - [100] Originally by: Mei Jinn *I wonder if Goonswarm are doing a Jig over this* i can tell you that i'm laughing histerically atm MY CROW just became uber.

Szprinkoth Sponsz Invicta. Synchr0nicity	Posted - 2007.10.13 18:07:00 - [101] Originally by: CCP Zulupark Originally by: Shoukei Originally by: CCP Zulupark I'm saying that Ares, Malediction, Raptor and Stiletto will be able to lay down +1 warp scramble from up to 30km (approx) on a battleships, and the battleship will not be able to do much about it... except maybe MWD to a gate or station, call in friends (cause there's NO way that these interceptors will break a BS's tank from that range) or.... or.. or.. maybe not fly around in a BS solo without a scout? The Arazu and Lachesis can also do this, and much more effectively, scrambling up to 40km range (or more) and sensor dampen their target completely. There's nothing a solo BS can do against that either. will the locking range on these ceptors be boosted as well? right now they cant lock beyond 22km. Actually they can lock up to about 30km with skills (22km is just the base). This is fully intended. Look at the Claw. Then get back to us.
Broska coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.13 18:08:00 - [102] To be honest a web range bonus would be more usefull. Scram, Web + Orbit at 20km would rock a hell of alot more than scramble at 30km. Considering the 10km can be covered in 2 seconds by most inties.
Kelron Queldine Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.10.13 18:09:00 - [103] Originally by: Szprinkoth Sponsz Look at the Claw. Then get back to us. The Claw which isn't getting a scram range bonus? Claps --------------------------- Signatures are for the weak.
Nomme Mugen Shipyards	Posted - 2007.10.13 18:10:00 - [104] Originally by: Elmicker Originally by: CCP Zulupark but doing so will sacrifice pretty much all their damage, so they will in fact only be useful in gangs. A flawed argument. Interceptors are only useful as gang ships anyway, because they deal nearly no damage. Though, i suppose this doesnt matter as the inties this applies to were never used at all before (except maybe the amarr one). They might see the light of day now. Quote: You can of course still use these ships as you did before by fitting a +2 warp scrambler instead of a disruptor. a 9km scrambler + 25% range is still only 11.25km. That's so close to web range that it'll never be a viable choice over the 30km a t2 disruptor gives you, especially now there are no cap issues at all. Quote: The 'damage' interceptors will now be able to run their warp disruptor+mwd indefinetly, but they will however have to stay inside of NOS/Neutralizer range to do so. Yay. Crow can finally use both meds for tackling purposes . Might the webbing rocket crow make a comeback? Sorry Elmicker but I had alot of success in holding down BS in the 11.5-13km range pre,Khanid buff. With the lack of Cap issues its now no problem to set an orbit of 7,500m and spin out to +10 from here with 2 points and no tracking issues with rockets the Malediction will really shine.
Semkhet KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.10.13 18:15:00 - [105] Originally by: Elliott Manchild Originally by: Kap Lan Originally by: ArmyOfMe I see your point, but u have to agree that a bs should be able to at least have some defence against small ships, and if these changes happen a interceptor can tackle a bs forever without any risk at all What about T2 light drones? I have very little experience in PVP, so perhaps I'm off base. But it seems that five Hobgoblin II drones, for example, would eat up an interceptor. They certainly have no problem eating up Spider Drone IIs and other very fast, little ships in PVE. Lets take for example, a well setup crow, without snakes you can easily get them over 10km per second and they are the most used interceptor. How can t2 light drones catch this? ;p Hmmm... Do you fly a Crow to start with in order to have a clue what you are talking about ? Because I hope you don't think that a "well setup Crow" use 3 OD's right ? Nah, I'll tell you. A well setup Crow combining speed and agility on a pimp setup (but without using polycarbs II) will get you between 8.5 and 9.5 Km/sec WITHOUT snakes and gang mods but INCLUDING your skirmish warfare leadership skills and maxed navigation skills.
Aramendel Amarr North Face Force	Posted - 2007.10.13 18:26:00 - [106] Originally by: Nomme Sorry Elmicker but I had alot of success in holding down BS in the 11.5-13km range pre,Khanid buff. Until you meet overloaded webs. And you'll have a max range of 11.25k, which is still below the ranges you've used. 10.8k with inty 4.
Semkhet KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.10.13 18:30:00 - [107] Originally by: Elmicker Originally by: Unaralas Uhmm... the crow doesn't get the scram range bonus dude. Raptor does Then replace everywhere i've said "Crow" with "Raptor" or whatever inty you prefer to fly. Inties don't kill things, they tackle. However, the point still stands about the crow now being able to constantly run its mwd + point. Previously it could only keep that up for a minute or so. Cough cough... So say I fall on you and actually MWD and ACTUALLY scramble you for 10 consecutive minutes, you would petition it ? Seems that you don't know how to setup a Crow...
Yaggher Xanuben	Posted - 2007.10.13 18:32:00 - [108] My stiletto is not a one-time ship anymore, cheers. All that cry about a battleship not being able to defeat a small tackler anymore, wtf? Ever heard of tank? OK. The tackler has a friend in a BS to pewpew you. So what, kill the BS! Then fly to gate and you're outta there. Tackler and two BSes you say? Kill one BS and die. As you would anyway, tackler or no tackler. 15 ceptros you say? How come you are always alone and all the others have friends with them? Carebears :P I don't post with main because it's too wellknown. It would affect the popularity of my posts
Zikka The Establishment	Posted - 2007.10.13 18:36:00 - [109] Just an idea, but rather than a +5% bonus to range per level how about a +1km range per level bonus? It comes to about the same for disruptors ( 24km used to go to 30, now goes to 29 ) but for shorter range stuff like 2 pt scramblers and webs it makes a much bigger difference.
MITSUK0	Posted - 2007.10.13 18:40:00 - [110] lol So the crow now gets a bonus to cap use on disrupters? Bye bye cap mods, hello speed mods! All you people who stuck it out with caldari should be pleased, uber crows and uber ravens will be the order of the day!

Azirapheal Amarr The Bastards	Posted - 2007.10.13 18:46:00 - [111] Originally by: ArmyOfMe Originally by: Kanonus Originally by: ArmyOfMe Edited by: ArmyOfMe on 13/10/2007 11:35:59 come to think about it, this would be a very bad change for any bs since they will now allways be scramed from outside nos/neut range Did it ever come to you that's exactly the idea behind it? As it is right now a ceptor is dead meat when tackling a BS with a neut (and the number of neut equipped BS is on the rise). The job of the intercetor is tackling. A job it fails horribly at right now. They are no alternative over a sabre as it is. I see your point, but u have to agree that a bs should be able to at least have some defence against small ships, and if these changes happen a interceptor can tackle a bs forever without any risk at all and you are talking *******s. drones you nubbin, every battleship has a drone bay
Ezekiel Sulastin Gallente Eve University	Posted - 2007.10.13 18:48:00 - [112] Meh, still can't run an Ares for more than a couple minutes before it caps out. At least my Taranis will last a bit longer.
Wrayeth Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.10.13 18:52:00 - [113] Edited by: Wrayeth on 13/10/2007 18:52:52 FFS. I hope you realize you just spelled the doom of every ship larger than a destroyer (and maybe even destroyers - I don't fly 'em enough to know if they have the speed/range/tracking needed). Cruisers unable to fight back against the lone 'ceptor that's killing them? Check (not enough range/tracking on medium weaponry, and medium neuts don't have the range either). Battlecruisers unable to fight back against the lone 'ceptor tackling them? Also check (same problem as cruisers). Battleships unable to fight back against the lone 'ceptor? Check as well (BS guns may have the range, depending on type, but can't track worth a damn; neuts used to be the only defense against 'ceptors, but now they won't help at all). Seriously, CCP, why are you doing this? Are you trying to turn this into all of the other MMOs out there with enforced grouping and an inability to be useful without 6283 friends? It may be cliche, but if this change makes it in I may have to cancel my account (no you can't have my stuff). I prefer flying the larger ships, and this change will make them useless without a fair-sized gang to back them up, even against a lone 'ceptor. TBH, the torp nerf is bad enough, with the increase in sig radius FORCING anyone who wants to fly a torp raven to have a buddy with a painter, but now this? Repeat after me: there are no elves or giant rats in EVE. The game was not designed for a particular ship class to be absolutely useless without other, complementary ships (at least until you got to the capital level). We joined EVE to get away from all of the "You must have a fighter for tank, a healer to keep him alive, a crowd-control to mez the mobs, and a caster for DPS" crap of other MMOs, yet it seems that's the direction EVE is now going. One word: WHY? -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.13 18:55:00 - [114] Originally by: Wrayeth One word: WHY? Because new players will be useful. I support any change that is positive in improving new players experience. You could always get a friend to scout or take up the extra account offer and make an alt scout. It is not that difficult. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Wrayeth Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.10.13 19:04:00 - [115] Edited by: Wrayeth on 13/10/2007 19:06:34 Originally by: shinsushi This is an awesome change CCP. \o/ Don't listen to the whining and crying. Finally, ships might have different roles rather than just BS>BC>cruiser>frig. Yes, now it will be frig > BS > BC > cruiser, despite the fact that the larger ships cost a lot more. Great idea, truly. EDIT: Quote: EDIT: Oh NOES!!! My BS might be vulnerable to a tackle !!! I get tackled all the time, so I don't know what you're talking about. Sure, I can run off a single 'ceptor in my tempest, but my ship also costs about ten to twenty times more, all told. Make it two or three 'ceptors and I'm screwed. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Synapse X Gallente United Eve Directorate	Posted - 2007.10.13 19:04:00 - [116] Originally by: Wrayeth TBH, the torp nerf is bad enough, with the increase in sig radius FORCING anyone who wants to fly a torp raven to have a buddy with a painter, but now this? Repeat after me: there are no elves or giant rats in EVE. The game was not designed for a particular ship class to be absolutely useless without other, complementary ships (at least until you got to the capital level). We joined EVE to get away from all of the "You must have a fighter for tank, a healer to keep him alive, a crowd-control to mez the mobs, and a caster for DPS" crap of other MMOs, yet it seems that's the direction EVE is now going. "You must have X gang composition to be able to do anything." One word: WHY? QFMFT
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.13 19:05:00 - [117] Wrayeth, this is the nature of the game. Scouts and cloaks win the game. If you do not want to adapt, you don't need to whine about it. I agree with BS > BC > Cruisers > Frigates > BS. :) --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.10.13 19:06:00 - [118] Originally by: Wrayeth Yes, now it will be frig > BS > BC > cruiser, despite the fact that the larger ships cost a lot more. Great idea, truly. Dude your whine gear is stuck in overdrive eh? Tell me when 1 frig is gonna pwn a BS? It can tackle and tickle it. Imagine that, a Battleship needing support... Jenny has it right.
Jenny Spitfire Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.13 19:08:00 - [119] Thank you Shinsushi. I am glad you see it my way that I am always right. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Kali is for KArebearLIng. I 100% agree with Avon. Female EVE gamers? Mail Zajo or visit WGOE.Public in-game.
Leon 026 Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.10.13 19:10:00 - [120] Edited by: Leon 026 on 13/10/2007 19:10:22 Looks like inty haters now got what they want, nerfed interceptor dps. Only this time, inties will be tackling out of range of everything and orbitting even faster. This is what happens when you scream for nerf too much. Being an inty pilot, this is a great thing for me :D ------- Leon 026 Once I was fallen, now I have wings

Wrayeth Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.10.13 19:10:00 - [121] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Wrayeth, this is the nature of the game. Scouts and cloaks win the game. If you do not want to adapt, you don't need to whine about it. Again, you did not read. This is NOT about avoiding combat with a scout. This is about being able to ENGAGE in combat. Quote: I agree with BS > BC > Cruisers > Frigates > BS. :) Even if one were to accept that as stated (I believe it should be similar, but should be more along the lines of 2-3 frigates > BS for tackling), there's a critical break in the chain: cruisers and BCs won't be able to do a damned thing to 'ceptors after this patch. They don't have the range with weapons and neuts. -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"
Boomershoot Caldari Insurgent New Eden Tribe Deus Ex.	Posted - 2007.10.13 19:11:00 - [122] raptor at 4m, jita price. i bet it will be thrice in 24h :P nice changes, it's quite a change in the ceptor universe, no more cap issues :E ----------------------------------------------- "1, 2, 3, shuttle reprocessing is right for me"
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.10.13 19:11:00 - [123] Originally by: Leon 026 Edited by: Leon 026 on 13/10/2007 19:10:22 Looks like inty haters now got what they want, nerfed interceptor dps. Only this time, inties will be tackling out of range of everything and orbitting even faster. This is what happens when you scream for nerf too much. Being an inty pilot, this is a great thing for me :D I never really thought ceptors should have alot of damage anyway. I always thought of them as hot-rods with harpoons.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.13 19:12:00 - [124] Originally by: Leon 026 Edited by: Leon 026 on 13/10/2007 19:10:22 Looks like inty haters now got what they want, nerfed interceptor dps. Only this time, inties will be tackling out of range of everything and orbitting even faster. This is what happens when you scream for nerf too much. Being an inty pilot, this is a great thing for me :D the taranis, crow, claw and crusader still do the same damage. actually now they are even better with -80% cap usage on them scrammers. --- planetary interaction idea!
Semkhet KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.10.13 19:21:00 - [125] Edited by: Semkhet on 13/10/2007 19:23:22 Funny how everybody whines about how these changes will make the Crow even better, and no one has realized that actually, these are the worst changes a Crow could fear. Bear in mind that my favorite ship is a Crow... Check that, the Crow Hunter: Take 1 Malediction, add snakes, add 2 polycarbs, a Gistii-A MWD, a warp disruptor T2, a fleeting propulsion inhibitor, 2 Domination or Republic Fleet overdrives, a Domination BCU, 3x rocket launchers T2 with CN gremlins (you don't want to screw your speed with javelins) and a DLPL2. - Goes faster than most Crows, even pimped ones + snakes. - Way more DPS - Can web the crow. - Disruptor range at 30 Km With good cap & nav skills, the malediction doesen't need any cap mod to sustain indefinitely both the MWD and the disruptor. MWD = - 2.9 cap/sec Disruptor = 0.75 cap/sec = 3.65, Malediction cap recharge rate: 3.8 cap/sec ;) Once you activate additionally the web and the gun, you drain 2 cap/sec more, and with a total cap of 322, you can do that during 2 and half minutes, at 115 DPS when the crow does max 70 and something. I will definitely get a Malediction as soon the changes go live ;)
Elmicker Black Sea Industries Cult of War	Posted - 2007.10.13 19:26:00 - [126] Originally by: Semkhet Cough cough... So say I fall on you and actually MWD and ACTUALLY scramble you for 10 consecutive minutes, you would petition it ? Seems that you don't know how to setup a Crow... No. Please don't pick and choose my comments. you'll see i've also said that cap-stable setups in almost all cases require you to compromise your speed. This leaves you vulnerable to light drones, smaller guns and almost all missiles.
Semkhet KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.10.13 19:35:00 - [127] Originally by: Elmicker Edited by: Elmicker on 13/10/2007 19:31:11 Edited by: Elmicker on 13/10/2007 19:27:45 Originally by: Semkhet Cough cough... So say I fall on you and actually MWD and ACTUALLY scramble you for 10 consecutive minutes, you would petition it ? Seems that you don't know how to setup a Crow... No. Please don't pick and choose my comments. you'll see i've also said that cap-stable setups in almost all cases require you to compromise your speed. This leaves you vulnerable to light drones, smaller guns and almost all missiles. Quote: these are the worst changes a Crow could fear. eh? How? The crow can now fit a web, and is faster than almost all other inties. It's only real competitor, the malediction, has just lost a bonus for something that in an anti-inti capacity is utterly useless. For it to be useful versus the crow, it has to sacrifice yet another bonus by fitting missiles over rockets. Originally by: Semkhet [- Goes faster than most Crows, even pimped ones + snakes. Of course it goes faster than most crows, you've just spent 300mil+ on the setup and into the billions with the implants. May as well spend 200m on a half-arsed nanohuginn thats dozens of times more effective. Actually you can use MWD and disruptor for 10 consecutive minutes while only devoting a SINGLE mid to a cap mod And my Malediction setup stated above is purely meant to catch snake-crows, in case you didn't realize that... Besides, nobody EVER managed to pop my Crow, rapier or huginn still have to show on scanner and overview before they can do anything dude. Oh... You never heard about people checking their overview when fighting ?
Elmicker Black Sea Industries Cult of War	Posted - 2007.10.13 19:40:00 - [128] Edited by: Elmicker on 13/10/2007 19:44:10 Originally by: Semkhet Actually you can use MWD and disruptor for 10 consecutive minutes while only devoting a SINGLE mid to a cap mod On a crow right now? I'd like to see the setup you're using for that. A cap recharger 2 will hold a gistii/disruptor 2 for 1m50s, and you can only hold about 3 minutes worth of cap charges for a micro injector, so unless you've got some new magical cap mod that's 3 times more effective than the injector, you're talking utter bull**. Quote: And my Malediction setup stated above is purely meant to catch snake-crows, in case you didn't realize that... Quote: Check that, the Crow Hunter: You never said snakes until later on, and that was preceded by "even" implying that it was aimed at non-pimp crows, but it was still effective against them. Quote: Besides, nobody EVER managed to pop my Crow, rapier or huginn still have to show on scanner and overview before they can do anything dude. Oh... You never heard about people checking their overview when fighting ? ... what? Quote: Fit a web on a pimped crow ? Why ? Well, the idea is, you use a web to slow targets down. That's generally the idea anyway. It doesn't take a genius of a pilot to work out which ships its too risky to web. It'd mainly be used for webbing ships that would otherwise easily reapproach the gate, or for webbing inties that you are siginificantly faster than, or inties who will suffer tracking issues in the v. close range, such as rail ranises. It actually makes the crow useful versus inties, against whom it'll usually do 0 damage. In combination with your gang's EW (maybe in the form of the new ew frig), it'll make the usualy "oh ** i'm not going anywhere near that" ships such as the vaga and huginn extremely vulnerable to webbing crows, who are usually the only ones quick enough in gang to do the job.
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.10.13 19:48:00 - [129] Edited by: Death Kill on 13/10/2007 19:50:03 Originally by: CCP Zulupark Originally by: Lisa Ikura So what your saying is that its a intended feature that a interceptor will be able to tackle a bs without the bs having any sort of defence against it? I'm saying that Ares, Malediction, Raptor and Stiletto will be able to lay down +1 warp scramble from up to 30km (approx) on a battleships, and the battleship will not be able to do much about it... except maybe MWD to a gate or station, call in friends (cause there's NO way that these interceptors will break a BS's tank from that range) or.... or.. or.. maybe not fly around in a BS solo without a scout? The Arazu and Lachesis can also do this, and much more effectively, scrambling up to 40km range (or more) and sensor dampen their target completely. There's nothing a solo BS can do against that either. Im sorry, you(CCP) always claim you want to reduce blobbing but every damn new feture you present encourages blobbing....considering the ****ty state of the servers are in (LAG!!!!) dont you ever question your new and 'clever' changes? Its obvios you dont want solo pvp in EVE, but why the hell do you always have to encourage blob/alliance warfare? Your servers cant handle it, if theres any changes you should do its to boost solo pvp. edit : Oh and fear the interceptor blob! Call to arms!!!
Semkhet KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.10.13 19:52:00 - [130] I use a Small Cap Booster T2 with 50's charges. Works like a charm And the point is that since classic crows MUST use at least 1 mid for cap purposes, pimped/snaked crows don't use webs because they don't want to risk a 1.5 bil pod to start with since there's no way of using a web without taking the risk to fall yourself into web range. But even if the new crow fits a web, you still have almost double DPS in the Malediction, and way better resists where it matters.

nmwone Caldari Endgame.	Posted - 2007.10.13 19:54:00 - [131] Though I like these changes (any changes to Ares, Raptor, Malediction and Stiletto towards tackling) and lobbied for ceptor changes a long time ago, it do annoys a bit that you give all these the same bonuses. Though it's not totally relevant, ceptors can allready get this edge by having a BC/CS in gang with skirmish links, except the cap use. One and a half year ago I suggested these bonuses given current slot layouts. Malediction: 10% to stasis webifier range per level. Raptor: 20% to warp scrambler range per level. (not warp disruptor) Ares: 50% to warp scrambler strength per level. (not warp disruptor) Stiletto: 95-99% max velocity on stasis webifiers per level. Role bonus: Propulsion jamming modules use no capacitator. Not saying these are perfect or that these are the bonuses that should be implented. Just dont overlook scramble strength, web range and web strength as possible bonuses for these tackling ships. There are more attributes than range that can/is usefull when tackling.
Julius Romanus Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2007.10.13 20:34:00 - [132] CCP seems pretty set on what they are doing, so I'm not going to argue it. I like the cap reduction, I like the cap reduction. I dont like losing a bonus to get a range bonus I wont get much use out of.
Faekurias Federation Fleet Endless Horizon	Posted - 2007.10.13 21:24:00 - [133] Originally by: Cailais Edited by: Cailais on 13/10/2007 15:03:43 Originally by: Death Kill Edited by: Death Kill on 13/10/2007 14:33:30 Originally by: Kanonus BS were never meant to be solo ships. Bring a friend. It's a mMog. That being said unless you are in a belt you can allways go for the gate. For webbign he still needs to enterer the world of pain. What an idiot reply. Just because a bs is able to somehow make a smaller ship not being able to tackle it doesnt mean its a solo ship. This change is STUPID, UTTER STUPID: Beware of the inty gang, 15 intys will own 15 battleships. Indeed. The Battleship Era is over, the new Frigate Era has begun. Interceptors, EW Frigates, HACs and Hacdictors will dominate the face of Eve. C. Commandships \o/ !!!!! MY SIG FTW! \o/
Royaldo Gallente KVA Noble Inc. Institute of Cooperative Education	Posted - 2007.10.13 21:34:00 - [134] Originally by: Semkhet Edited by: Semkhet on 13/10/2007 19:23:22 Funny how everybody whines about how these changes will make the Crow even better, and no one has realized that actually, these are the worst changes a Crow could fear. Bear in mind that my favorite ship is a Crow... Check that, the Crow Hunter: Take 1 Malediction, add snakes, add 2 polycarbs, a Gistii-A MWD, a warp disruptor T2, a fleeting propulsion inhibitor, 2 Domination or Republic Fleet overdrives, a Domination BCU, 3x rocket launchers T2 with CN gremlins (you don't want to screw your speed with javelins) and a DLPL2. - Goes faster than most Crows, even pimped ones + snakes. - Way more DPS - Can web the crow. - Disruptor range at 30 Km With good cap & nav skills, the malediction doesen't need any cap mod to sustain indefinitely both the MWD and the disruptor. MWD = - 2.9 cap/sec Disruptor = 0.75 cap/sec = 3.65, Malediction cap recharge rate: 3.8 cap/sec ;) Once you activate additionally the web and the gun, you drain 2 cap/sec more, and with a total cap of 322, you can do that during 2 and half minutes, at 115 DPS when the crow does max 70 and something. I will definitely get a Malediction as soon the changes go live ;) im gonna laugh my ass of when you go pop with that ******** expensive ship
MassonA Caldari coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.13 21:34:00 - [135] Originally by: Kelron Queldine Originally by: Szprinkoth Sponsz Look at the Claw. Then get back to us. The Claw which isn't getting a scram range bonus? Claps the claw which cant lock past 21km :)
Cpt Fina Blood Corsair's	Posted - 2007.10.13 21:39:00 - [136] Can't say I see why Crows and the other "heavy hitter intys" need a cap-reduction. They are perfectly fine as they are.
Kelron Queldine Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.10.13 21:43:00 - [137] Originally by: MassonA Originally by: Kelron Queldine Originally by: Szprinkoth Sponsz Look at the Claw. Then get back to us. The Claw which isn't getting a scram range bonus? Claps the claw which cant lock past 21km :) Yes, that was the point of the post I quoted: the Claw has a short lock range. But the Claw isn't getting a scram range bonus, so it's irrelevant. --------------------------- Signatures are for the weak.
Tammarr	Posted - 2007.10.13 22:09:00 - [138] So... nos is bad, good for your cap and no drawbacks while killing ceptors. Change of nos: Great. Need neuts to fight off a ceptor coming to tackle you, check. I adapt and fit a neut to get a chance to slipout. Now, I cant even have the chance the ceptor will be out of cap for long enough for me to hit warp due to neut. I suppose I dont need that fitting mod in the lowslot anymore since my skills are way better, or so eft tells me. a wcs is a good option to add on there.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.10.13 22:16:00 - [139] I think the change is good. What is also needed though is adding more 'anti-frig weapons' for BS. I think we could certainly use for example a 'Quad 220mm Vulcan AC' for BS to fit against small ships. And/or more ships that have a specific tracking bonus for small weapons. The fastest ships are currently practically unhittable, and that is also not a good situation. Or introduce Tier 2/Tech 2 Destroyers that have huge tracking bonuses so they can hit those 12-15km/s interceptors/interdictors. ------------------------------------------------
Sangxianc Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.13 22:17:00 - [140] Edited by: Sangxianc on 13/10/2007 22:20:34 In my opinion, the 'combat' interceptors (Taranis, Crow, Crusader, Claw) should receive no more than a 50% reduction in cap usage, if any. Originally by: Wrayeth cruisers and BCs won't be able to do a damned thing to 'ceptors after this patch. They don't have the range with weapons and neuts. I think you raise a perfectly valid point here. Would you think these changes were more suitable if light- and medium-sized sentry drones were introduced, and the light versions had good enough tracking/range to ward off a solo mwding interceptor at 20-30km? Regular light drones would still have the advantage of maneuverability and the ability to hit inties close-up, but the sentry versions would take the role of ranged tackler defence. Alternatively (or additionally), perhaps if Drone Navigation Computers were changed from a medslot to a highslot, people could use one instead of a neut and make Warrior II's fast enough to harrass an interceptor. I don't know how much use these modules really see with their current slot, but I wouldn't be suprised if they became more popular when people became able to fit them in a spare highslot. Neither of these changes would be designed to melt a tackler in seconds, but instead to do enough damage to dissuade lone 20km tacklers from engaging for more than, say, twenty to thirty seconds while backup arrives.

Kelron Queldine Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.10.13 22:22:00 - [141] Drone nav computers could be used on the 'spare' mid a lot of Gallente drone ships have on a standard setup, but I don't know how practical it would be to fit them on other race's ships - certainly not useful for Caldari. I've never used them; I remember being told not to bother with them when I was a newer player because the drones go too fast to track their target, but I've never checked this for myself. --------------------------- Signatures are for the weak.
Tammarr	Posted - 2007.10.13 22:27:00 - [142] yes Sang, something such as more anti frig weaponry for a bs is sorely needed. light sentry drones would be very nifty. or a highslot for nav so thoose warriorz might save my butt if I havent been fast enough to warpout. else fitting a wcs to get a 'out of jail freecard' vs ceptors or adapting for the ever winning "ctrl-q on hostile local entry' option seems to be the best answer, despite the ugly taste it leaves in my mouth, adapt or die...
Cadiz Caldari No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.10.13 22:46:00 - [143] Edited by: Cadiz on 13/10/2007 22:47:07 Originally by: Elmicker Edited by: Elmicker on 13/10/2007 19:44:10 Originally by: Semkhet Actually you can use MWD and disruptor for 10 consecutive minutes while only devoting a SINGLE mid to a cap mod On a crow right now? I'd like to see the setup you're using for that. A cap recharger 2 will hold a gistii/disruptor 2 for 1m50s, and you can only hold about 3 minutes worth of cap charges for a micro injector, so unless you've got some new magical cap mod that's 3 times more effective than the injector, you're talking utter bull***. Actually, with perfect skills and a faction/deadspace MWD, you can run the MWD and a t2/faction warp disruptor on a Crow for up to 20min before capping out with just a t2 cap recharger and a t2/beta cap power relay. That does require High Speed Maneuvering V, though. With that at IV plus Propulsion Jamming V & the direct capacitor skills at V, you should be able to run for 5 - 6min. Assuming you use a Gistii MWD, this kind of setup can still go some 9.6km/sec with only some hardwirings and no Snakes. And don't forget the MWD cap reduction hardwirings... ------ Director, No Quarter "There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence."*
Semkhet KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.10.13 22:54:00 - [144] Originally by: Royaldo Originally by: Semkhet Edited by: Semkhet on 13/10/2007 19:23:22 Funny how everybody whines about how these changes will make the Crow even better, and no one has realized that actually, these are the worst changes a Crow could fear. Bear in mind that my favorite ship is a Crow... Check that, the Crow Hunter: Take 1 Malediction, add snakes, add 2 polycarbs, a Gistii-A MWD, a warp disruptor T2, a fleeting propulsion inhibitor, 2 Domination or Republic Fleet overdrives, a Domination BCU, 3x rocket launchers T2 with CN gremlins (you don't want to screw your speed with javelins) and a DLPL2. - Goes faster than most Crows, even pimped ones + snakes. - Way more DPS - Can web the crow. - Disruptor range at 30 Km With good cap & nav skills, the malediction doesen't need any cap mod to sustain indefinitely both the MWD and the disruptor. MWD = - 2.9 cap/sec Disruptor = 0.75 cap/sec = 3.65, Malediction cap recharge rate: 3.8 cap/sec ;) Once you activate additionally the web and the gun, you drain 2 cap/sec more, and with a total cap of 322, you can do that during 2 and half minutes, at 115 DPS when the crow does max 70 and something. I will definitely get a Malediction as soon the changes go live ;) im gonna laugh my ass of when you go pop with that ******** expensive ship Since it's over two years that I've been using snakes/crow without ever having lost that combo to another player, so I guess I've a slight clue about flying crows, what puts me in a privileged position if I want to go after them. You should only fly what you can afford to loose, and your appreciation leads me to believe that we don't play in the same league... Keep waiting in the hope you can laugh your ass off, In the mean time you will excuse me if I actually PLAY the game Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected])
Ivor Gunn No One Expects The Spanish Inquisition	Posted - 2007.10.13 22:58:00 - [145] Originally by: Semkhet In the mean time you will excuse me if I actually PLAY the game You have 2 kills. Neither of them in a crow. Even in the priory you only had 40 crow kills. Your play time must rock.
Camulos Redne Amarr No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2007.10.13 23:06:00 - [146] Originally by: Cadiz Edited by: Cadiz on 13/10/2007 22:47:07 Originally by: Elmicker Edited by: Elmicker on 13/10/2007 19:44:10 Originally by: Semkhet Actually you can use MWD and disruptor for 10 consecutive minutes while only devoting a SINGLE mid to a cap mod On a crow right now? I'd like to see the setup you're using for that. A cap recharger 2 will hold a gistii/disruptor 2 for 1m50s, and you can only hold about 3 minutes worth of cap charges for a micro injector, so unless you've got some new magical cap mod that's 3 times more effective than the injector, you're talking utter bull****. Actually, with perfect skills and a faction/deadspace MWD, you can run the MWD and a t2/faction warp disruptor on a Crow for up to 20min before capping out with just a t2 cap recharger and a t2/beta cap power relay. That does require High Speed Maneuvering V, though. With that at IV plus Propulsion Jamming V & the direct capacitor skills at V, you should be able to run for 5 - 6min. Assuming you use a Gistii MWD, this kind of setup can still go some 9.6km/sec with only some hardwirings and no Snakes. And don't forget the MWD cap reduction hardwirings... you have no idea! /run
Cailais Amarr VITOC Fang Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.13 23:12:00 - [147] Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Wrayeth, this is the nature of the game. Scouts and cloaks win the game. If you do not want to adapt, you don't need to whine about it. I agree with BS > BC > Cruisers > Frigates > BS. :) Are you ENTIRELY sure youre feeling ok Jenny?? I mean, this sounds like fightin' talk, quite unlike Jenny Spitfire ver 3.0 - you're actually making a lot of sense! C. - sig designer - eve mail
Semkhet KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.10.13 23:23:00 - [148] Edited by: Semkhet on 13/10/2007 23:25:38 Originally by: Ivor Gunn Originally by: Semkhet In the mean time you will excuse me if I actually PLAY the game You have 2 kills. Neither of them in a crow. Even in the priory you only had 40 crow kills. Your play time must rock. Well, since you ask I will be polite enough to answer... I'm one of those players who don't give a damn about KB's anymore since I ran into a period of over 6 months where I never received a killmail, precisely starting a few weeks after I joined The Priory for the second time. Was quite irritating since when I was in gang, when we killed something and we did'n receive the KM we finished to realize that it was always happening when I gave the final blow. Petitioned a few times without never getting even an answer, so moved on and that's it. Now it's working again but old habits remain, when I get the KM maybe I post it, maybe not. Besides, killboards are all but reliable, you have people faking them, or corps using more than one killboard (Priory was the case), etc... So the bottom line is: you care about KB's, I don't give a damn. But if you really believe that I can help you rub your ego then convo me and I will gladly tell you when and where we may meet for an inty tango
Trojanman190 Caldari Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.10.13 23:56:00 - [149] Originally by: CCP Zulupark Originally by: mallina Does this mean the Crusader is going to lose it's Tracking Bonus? Crow, Claw, Crusader and Taranis will not have their bonuses changed one bit, they only get the new role bonus added. But but but... the claw is the one that needed fixing!
MITSUK0	Posted - 2007.10.13 23:59:00 - [150] Originally by: Trojanman190 Originally by: CCP Zulupark Originally by: mallina Does this mean the Crusader is going to lose it's Tracking Bonus? Crow, Claw, Crusader and Taranis will not have their bonuses changed one bit, they only get the new role bonus added. But but but... the claw is the one that needed fixing! gief thurd midzlot

Kelron Queldine Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.10.14 00:00:00 - [151] Originally by: Trojanman190 Originally by: CCP Zulupark Originally by: mallina Does this mean the Crusader is going to lose it's Tracking Bonus? Crow, Claw, Crusader and Taranis will not have their bonuses changed one bit, they only get the new role bonus added. But but but... the claw is the one that needed fixing! What's wrong with the Claw? The Minmatar inty pilots I've spoken to about all seem to think it's a great ship, and even went so far as to suggest it was better that my Taranis. Naturally I had to prove them wrong on that point, but it's still a fairly good inty. --------------------------- Vanilla Crazy Cake!
Haerana The Republican Guard The Sundering	Posted - 2007.10.14 00:06:00 - [152] Originally by: Kelron Queldine Drone nav computers could be used on the 'spare' mid a lot of Gallente drone ships have on a standard setup, but I don't know how practical it would be to fit them on other race's ships - certainly not useful for Caldari. I've never used them; I remember being told not to bother with them when I was a newer player because the drones go too fast to track their target, but I've never checked this for myself. In my time using drone ships. i have had warrior II overshoot stuff alot on my domi. Got drone sniping 4 and drone nav skills 3. i was advised to always keep drone nav lower than sniping or they became to fast. I used to run a ratting domi with 2drone nav mods to speed up my heavies. but i did try em out for other purposes... if i tried to use warrior II they would overshoot on slow frigs constantly. with 1 omni link it improved it abit. I had to fit 2omni links to make them hit anything well enough to use... but again this is for ratting npc frigs in belts. then again this was messing about along time ago. So who knows nowadays. ------------------------------- Here comes the sig............. The Cake is a Lie The Cake is a Lie The Cake is a Lie The Cake is a Lie
Vitrael Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.10.14 00:12:00 - [153] /me jumps up and down /me kisses numerous stilettos.
Celestra Doxaila Enosis	Posted - 2007.10.14 01:09:00 - [154] Edited by: Celestra Doxaila on 14/10/2007 01:09:22 Originally by: Trypho The Lachesis can easily damp the hell out of you and do decent damage itself, while a ceptor will rely on others... Except if it tackles like a pod True, and I am a big fan of the Lachesis/Arazu; but for simple tackling duties, I can buy 5 interceptors for the price of one Recon Cruiser. Originally by: Vitrael /me jumps up and down /me kisses numerous stilettos. You may not want to do that.
Kelron Queldine Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.10.14 01:16:00 - [155] Originally by: Vitrael /me jumps up and down /me kisses numerous stilettos. Watch out for the Tetanus. --------------------------- Vanilla Crazy Cake!
Locke Ateid Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.10.14 01:28:00 - [156] Edited by: Locke Ateid on 14/10/2007 01:30:50 Originally by: Kelron Queldine Originally by: Trojanman190 Originally by: CCP Zulupark Originally by: mallina Does this mean the Crusader is going to lose it's Tracking Bonus? Crow, Claw, Crusader and Taranis will not have their bonuses changed one bit, they only get the new role bonus added. But but but... the claw is the one that needed fixing! What's wrong with the Claw? The Minmatar inty pilots I've spoken to about all seem to think it's a great ship, and even went so far as to suggest it was better that my Taranis. Naturally I had to prove them wrong on that point, but it's still a fairly good inty. The Claw is a great Ceptor, when used in the right situation (popping other Ceptors), but plenty of people don't think it's not nearly as versatile as say a Taranis or Crow. And while it may be the fastest Ceptor, ironically it's also the heaviest, making it not as nearly as fast as one would think when MWDs come into play. And some think that the "low cpu + two mid slot" is bad decision on CCP's part, believing that it needs either a slight CPU boost and/or an extra mid slot. Personally, I'm fine with the Claw...course, any boost would be icing on the cake for me :P .
Sky Grunthor Minmatar MKS Directorate	Posted - 2007.10.14 01:43:00 - [157] Bs's can alway fit missiles for detackleing. Kill the int and it can't tackle you any more. However an inti is a support ship. it won't be there without friends. so if you don't have freinds your screwed. YOU need support ships in your BS.
Pattern Clarc Reikoku	Posted - 2007.10.14 02:22:00 - [158] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: CCP Zulupark I have no idea about the Roden Shipyard stuff, that's outside my field of work tbh, but we will look at the Ares before these changes make it to TQ. No need, ive done it for you. With 2 meds, and 4 lows, the Ares is fine, and perfectly inline with all the other "tackle" interceptors with 6 total med/low slots. Like the stiletto? Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
Pattern Clarc Reikoku	Posted - 2007.10.14 02:26:00 - [159] Edited by: Pattern Clarc on 14/10/2007 02:26:13 Originally by: Wrayeth Edited by: Wrayeth on 13/10/2007 18:57:20 FFS. I hope you realize you just spelled the doom of every ship larger than a destroyer (and maybe even destroyers - I don't fly 'em enough to know if they have the speed/range/tracking needed). Cruisers unable to fight back against the lone 'ceptor that's killing them? Check (not enough range/tracking on medium weaponry, and medium neuts don't have the range either). Battlecruisers unable to fight back against the lone 'ceptor tackling them? Also check (same problem as cruisers). Battleships unable to fight back against the lone 'ceptor? Check as well (BS guns may have the range, depending on type, but can't track worth a damn; neuts used to be the only defense against 'ceptors, but now they won't help at all). Seriously, CCP, why are you doing this? Are you trying to turn this into all of the other MMOs out there with enforced grouping and an inability to be useful without 6283 friends? It may be cliche, but if this change makes it in I may have to cancel my account (no you can't have my stuff). I prefer flying the larger ships, and this change will make them useless without a fair-sized gang to back them up, even against a lone 'ceptor. One word: WHY? WTS Remote Sensor Dampener Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
Zana Kito Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.14 02:27:00 - [160] Originally by: Sky Grunthor Bs's can alway fit missiles for detackleing. Kill the int and it can't tackle you any more. However an inti is a support ship. it won't be there without friends. so if you don't have freinds your screwed. YOU need support ships in your BS. Since when can missiles hurt inties? Seriously people who reply that anti inty tactics are to use drones or missiles are either ignorant or stupid. They can't touch any decent inty going at 9km/s. Tackling with impunity is a silly game mechanic. There should always be risks involved in any tactic. What risks are there when you orbit at 29km going over 9km/s, are immune to drones, missiles, neuts, all turreted weapons.. With all the recent usage of nanos/speed-tanking, weapon systems need a big update to match. They were designed in a time where flying at 4km/s was the max and are simply obsolete in todays speed focused warfare. Light Drones and Light Missiles SHOULD always be the anti-frig/inty weapon since they were designed for that. Now they can't do squat. CCP time for a rethink.

Velt Lhasar Generals Of Destruction Syndicate	Posted - 2007.10.14 02:28:00 - [161] CCP should consider swithing the warp disruptor/scram from malediction to crusader. As it stands, crusaders are often fit with beams and it would make more sense staying outside of 25km with this than the rocket bonus malediction
Kelron Queldine Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.10.14 02:44:00 - [162] To the people whining about 9km/s inties: I know it's annoying that they're hard to catch, but remember that to go that fast they've had to fit faction gear which most likely cost far more than your BS and setup (unless that is faction fit too, ofc). And they still run the risk of dying to minmatar recons, or long range/overloaded webs, or another fast inty. --------------------------- Vanilla Crazy Cake!
Pattern Clarc Reikoku	Posted - 2007.10.14 02:45:00 - [163] Originally by: Kelron Queldine To the people whining about 9km/s inties: I know it's annoying that they're hard to catch, but remember that to go that fast they've had to fit faction gear which most likely cost far more than your BS and setup (unless that is faction fit too, ofc). And they still run the risk of dying to minmatar recons, or long range/overloaded webs, or another fast inty. Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
Gragnor Ordos Humanitas FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.14 04:13:00 - [164] Originally by: Kelron Queldine To the people whining about 9km/s inties: I know it's annoying that they're hard to catch, but remember that to go that fast they've had to fit faction gear which most likely cost far more than your BS and setup (unless that is faction fit too, ofc). And they still run the risk of dying to minmatar recons, or long range/overloaded webs, or another fast inty. When a bs runs at 9km/s after spending $300m isk in mods - its gets nerfed..........tell me why it should be any different for an inty?
Bardi MecAuldnis Amarr Heretic Army Fang Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.14 04:50:00 - [165] Originally by: Gragnor Originally by: Kelron Queldine To the people whining about 9km/s inties: I know it's annoying that they're hard to catch, but remember that to go that fast they've had to fit faction gear which most likely cost far more than your BS and setup (unless that is faction fit too, ofc). And they still run the risk of dying to minmatar recons, or long range/overloaded webs, or another fast inty. When a bs runs at 9km/s after spending $300m isk in mods - its gets nerfed..........tell me why it should be any different for an inty? Because they are INTERCEPTORS. They are designed for speed. When a Double-decker bus can outrun my RX-7, there is a problem. --- Amarr/Caldari, and proud of it. Hey hey let's go kenka suru! Taisetsuna mono protect my balls! Boku ga warui so lets fighting! LET'S FIGHTING LOVE!!!
Uncle Smokey Minmatar Infestation.	Posted - 2007.10.14 04:56:00 - [166] YAY! YAY! uncle clapz hands .:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. \o/ EVERYBODY SAY HELL YEAH! \o/
Andreya	Posted - 2007.10.14 05:13:00 - [167] Originally by: Trojanman190 Originally by: CCP Zulupark Originally by: mallina Does this mean the Crusader is going to lose it's Tracking Bonus? Crow, Claw, Crusader and Taranis will not have their bonuses changed one bit, they only get the new role bonus added. But but but... the claw is the one that needed fixing! 4th turret ftw!!!!!!!!!!!! ... please
Akashyi Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.14 05:13:00 - [168] just dont touch my ranis.............
Pattern Clarc Reikoku	Posted - 2007.10.14 05:15:00 - [169] Originally by: CCP Zulupark Originally by: Sangxianc Looks like the MWD/disruptor/EWofchoice inty will be a popular tackling choice when this hits TQ. (Unless you fly Gallente.) It's too bad you guys are nerfing RSDs before inties get a chance to be overpowered with them. Originally by: CCP Zulupark I forgot to mention that we're of course looking into the Ares as well in regards to slot layout :) That's interesting to hear. Do you think it likely that you'll have decided whether to change the Ares before you introduce these new bonuses? Also, does the altered Roden Shipyards description mean that you are considering reassessing the rest of the Pink Fleet? I have no idea about the Roden Shipyard stuff, that's outside my field of work tbh, but we will look at the Ares before these changes make it to TQ. You can't really solve the Ares problem without solving the whole Roden Shipyards issuse tbh. Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
Andreya	Posted - 2007.10.14 05:16:00 - [170] Originally by: Kelron Queldine To the people whining about 9km/s inties: I know it's annoying that they're hard to catch, but remember that to go that fast they've had to fit faction gear which most likely cost far more than your BS and setup (unless that is faction fit too, ofc). And they still run the risk of dying to minmatar recons, or long range/overloaded webs, or another fast inty. thank you, my malediciton is over 300 mill... it better do its job tackling a BS without dying .. i still want my double rocket damage bonus tho armour resist wont help much

Andreya	Posted - 2007.10.14 05:17:00 - [171] Originally by: Gragnor Originally by: Kelron Queldine To the people whining about 9km/s inties: I know it's annoying that they're hard to catch, but remember that to go that fast they've had to fit faction gear which most likely cost far more than your BS and setup (unless that is faction fit too, ofc). And they still run the risk of dying to minmatar recons, or long range/overloaded webs, or another fast inty. When a bs runs at 9km/s after spending $300m isk in mods - its gets nerfed..........tell me why it should be any different for an inty? ummmm? are you serious? maybe cause it can still do 500+ dps,? and can still tank a bit. and the inty? ... 70 dps at 28km, and zero tank... nuff said
Andreya	Posted - 2007.10.14 05:18:00 - [172] wow.. sorry. im done my rant now :P
Herring Pimpology Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2007.10.14 05:42:00 - [173] Originally by: ArmyOfMe Originally by: Kap Lan Originally by: ArmyOfMe I see your point, but u have to agree that a bs should be able to at least have some defence against small ships, and if these changes happen a interceptor can tackle a bs forever without any risk at all What about T2 light drones? I have very little experience in PVP, so perhaps I'm off base. But it seems that five Hobgoblin II drones, for example, would eat up an interceptor. They certainly have no problem eating up Spider Drone IIs and other very fast, little ships in PVE. those spider drones doest even come close to the speed of a interceptor, neither does small drones sadly, and there is the problem How fast can inties go? I know a viable cruiser setup that can get t2 light drones to go up to 7.5k/sec. I'll have to test it again soon I think...
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.14 05:58:00 - [174] Originally by: Wrayeth Edited by: Wrayeth on 13/10/2007 19:06:34 Yes, now it will be frig > BS > BC > cruiser, despite the fact that the larger ships cost a lot more. Great idea, truly. I'll pay you 5bill isk if your inty can kill my battleship. Because this is what youre implying here. kkthxbai.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.14 06:04:00 - [175] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Wrayeth Edited by: Wrayeth on 13/10/2007 19:06:34 Yes, now it will be frig > BS > BC > cruiser, despite the fact that the larger ships cost a lot more. Great idea, truly. I'll pay you 5bill isk if your inty can kill my battleship. Because this is what youre implying here. kkthxbai. Where do you want to fight?
Uncle Smokey Minmatar Infestation.	Posted - 2007.10.14 06:28:00 - [176] i want claw more ninja! .:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:. \o/ EVERYBODY SAY HELL YEAH! \o/
General Apocalypse Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.10.14 06:50:00 - [177] Originally by: CCP Zulupark Originally by: Lisa Ikura So what your saying is that its a intended feature that a interceptor will be able to tackle a bs without the bs having any sort of defence against it? I'm saying that Ares, Malediction, Raptor and Stiletto will be able to lay down +1 warp scramble from up to 30km (approx) on a battleships, and the battleship will not be able to do much about it... except maybe MWD to a gate or station, call in friends (cause there's NO way that these interceptors will break a BS's tank from that range) or.... or.. or.. maybe not fly around in a BS solo without a scout? The Arazu and Lachesis can also do this, and much more effectively, scrambling up to 40km range (or more) and sensor dampen their target completely. There's nothing a solo BS can do against that either. That is stupid 100% . You need to get in a BS and fly it in 0.0 . The range bonus should only go on scramblers not on distruptors . Originally by: CCP Morpheus nerf ccp plz Originally by: CCP Oveur To the gankmobile!
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.14 06:58:00 - [178] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Wrayeth Edited by: Wrayeth on 13/10/2007 19:06:34 Yes, now it will be frig > BS > BC > cruiser, despite the fact that the larger ships cost a lot more. Great idea, truly. I'll pay you 5bill isk if your inty can kill my battleship. Because this is what youre implying here. kkthxbai. Where do you want to fight? Do the math, 1 inty wont break a non-******** fitted BS tank.
Kai Lae Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.10.14 07:24:00 - [179] If CCP is going to go through with this change, than ships that can fight interceptors will become more important - any chance they'll look at a class of ships that actually need some help, which are assualt frigates? When a MWD hawk or harpy is slower than a typhoon w/ a 100mn MWD II and no nanos, that's a problem.
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.10.14 07:28:00 - [180] Well atleast I know one thing, my alt will be happy, just finished yesterday maxing all relevant skills to small proj weapons and flies desties / dictors. With this change, a sniping thrasher will be a welcome addition to many gangs.

Gunstar Zero Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.14 07:48:00 - [181] Originally by: CCP Zulupark Originally by: ElCoCo Well ermm... the ares needs more than that to be a "tackler"... get rid of a highslot for a medslot plz. I forgot to mention that we're of course looking into the Ares as well in regards to slot layout :) Changes are looking good - nice one! The raptor could do with having a chunk of mass shaved off whilst you're fiddling :)
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.10.14 08:56:00 - [182] Great, now fix the damn tracking formula so I can (with skill and a lazy inty pilot) match their orbit by rotating my ship at the precise rate... ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Kelron Queldine Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.10.14 11:55:00 - [183] Fast inties are difficult to kill, but easy enough to chase off. Take the much-overlooked destroyer, for example. I took a 10km/s Ares out for a spin on the test server last night, and harrassed a bunch of inties, AFs and Stealth Bombers which couldn't do anything to touch me. Then along came a humble Coercer, I dropped into a 20km orbit, going about 7km/s to hold the orbit at that range, and it was no problem for him to hit me. I had plenty of time to fly off out of range, with a big dent in my armour, but we might start seeing some destroyers coming along with slow gangs. There's also the minor issue of my DPS at that range and speed being the total of 2 standard missile launchers with no bonuses. --------------------------- Vanilla Crazy Cake!
Pesadel0 Ordem dos Templarios	Posted - 2007.10.14 12:46:00 - [184] Originally by: CCP Zulupark Originally by: Shoukei Originally by: CCP Zulupark I'm saying that Ares, Malediction, Raptor and Stiletto will be able to lay down +1 warp scramble from up to 30km (approx) on a battleships, and the battleship will not be able to do much about it... except maybe MWD to a gate or station, call in friends (cause there's NO way that these interceptors will break a BS's tank from that range) or.... or.. or.. maybe not fly around in a BS solo without a scout? The Arazu and Lachesis can also do this, and much more effectively, scrambling up to 40km range (or more) and sensor dampen their target completely. There's nothing a solo BS can do against that either. will the locking range on these ceptors be boosted as well? right now they cant lock beyond 22km. Actually they can lock up to about 30km with skills (22km is just the base). This is fully intended. What?My claw can¦t lock further then 21Km i think or he couldn¦t...
Kelron Queldine Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.10.14 13:02:00 - [185] /me sighs Again: The Claw is not getting a scram range bonus so its lock range is not relevant. --------------------------- Vanilla Crazy Cake!
Pheonix Kanan Caldari Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.10.14 13:14:00 - [186] The new inty changes are interesting, to say the least. I don't think it's fair that one of the hardest ships to kill in the game is now getting a bonus to negate one of the few weapons that can stop them (neuts). Then gangs will be 100% required to bring a specialized anti-inty ship (rapier/huggin probably), which takes away from gang diversity and forces gang to carry certain ships in order to function properly (instead of flying what ever you feel like). Originally by: Curzon Dax shrugs Play the game the way you want to, and respect other peoples' ability to do the same.
Riddick Valer	Posted - 2007.10.14 14:57:00 - [187] Your argument makes no sense. You seem to imply that if all of you want to fly dreads, you should be able to kill any kind of target. What if you all wanted to fly Griffins? Gang diversity means you have a variety of ships for different tactical purposes. This isn't just a boost to ints, this is also a boost to destroyers. Expect to see more of them.
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.10.14 15:03:00 - [188] Great changes, something like this has been on the wish list for ages now. Glad to hear you're taking a look at the Ares, those 2 mids make it a bit sad as a tacler. Also about the Ares: I'd prefer the missile bonus to be left, not the turret one -- the ship works much better as a missile inty than as a gun inty... and missiles are supposed to be the Roden thing, anyway.
DEFCON4	Posted - 2007.10.14 15:40:00 - [189] Speaking from my Alt. CCP want to make sure all the Newbies have fun and all the older memebers just deal with it. This is about memberships and money, if all the noobs get their butts kicked they will more likely leave game and CCP lose money. Over 4 yrs ago when I started playiny your new char started with just about no skill points, now you can make a new char with over 1 mil skill points, so don't be surprise if one day skills and Skill points mean ZERO in this game, Money over loyality and fairness guys. That the CCP way. YEAH!!!!! GO CCP, Making that Cash!!!
Riddick Valer	Posted - 2007.10.14 16:37:00 - [190] Originally by: DEFCON4 Speaking from my Alt. CCP want to make sure all the Newbies have fun and all the older memebers just deal with it. This is about memberships and money, if all the noobs get their butts kicked they will more likely leave game and CCP lose money. Over 4 yrs ago when I started playiny your new char started with just about no skill points, now you can make a new char with over 1 mil skill points, so don't be surprise if one day skills and Skill points mean ZERO in this game, Money over loyality and fairness guys. That the CCP way. YEAH!!!!! GO CCP, Making that Cash!!! Whine much? They start with less than 1 mil SP. At your age, you're making more than 1 mil SP a month. Does a newbie starting with 1 month of SP really ruin the game for you that much? If after years of playing, a 1 mil SP character can own you, you're doing something wrong. Thats enough Sp for someone to get a basic start in a career, and fixed some problems with the new player experience. Grow up and stop whining.

Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.10.14 16:39:00 - [191] Ok this may sound odd but how fast can a 280mm arty track with max skills, no ship bonuses plus using republic fleet carbonized lead s? plus does it have the range and tracking to hit an 8km/s inty at 20km range? Also is one 280mm with that ammo enough to scare off the inty?
Elmicker Black Sea Industries Cult of War	Posted - 2007.10.14 16:45:00 - [192] Originally by: Nian Banks Ok this may sound odd but how fast can a 280mm arty track with max skills, no ship bonuses plus using republic fleet carbonized lead s? 0.07r/s Quote: plus does it have the range and tracking to hit an 8km/s inty at 20km range? Range, yes. Tracking, no. Quote: Also is one 280mm with that ammo enough to scare off the inty? It does 6.4dps. No.
SaorAlba Cataclysm Enterprises Kraftwerk.	Posted - 2007.10.14 17:57:00 - [193] I love 8k inties doing a orbit around me. Maybe this change will put some courage into the hart of the commen interceptor pilot. Most pilots take a run for there money whenever I show up with my little Thrasher. I guess I just have to adapt once again:)
Andreya	Posted - 2007.10.14 18:02:00 - [194] someone said something about needing to always have rapiers huginn in gangs now.. i think you guys are forgetting some of those t2 EW frigs can probably disable 2 or more intys themselves... keep an open mind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Decimo DEATH'S LEGION Dark Nebula Galactic Empire	Posted - 2007.10.14 18:48:00 - [195] That is AWESOME.
Vanessa Vale	Posted - 2007.10.14 19:05:00 - [196] Originally by: Kelron Queldine Originally by: Trojanman190 Originally by: CCP Zulupark Originally by: mallina Does this mean the Crusader is going to lose it's Tracking Bonus? Crow, Claw, Crusader and Taranis will not have their bonuses changed one bit, they only get the new role bonus added. But but but... the claw is the one that needed fixing! What's wrong with the Claw? The Minmatar inty pilots I've spoken to about all seem to think it's a great ship, and even went so far as to suggest it was better that my Taranis. Naturally I had to prove them wrong on that point, but it's still a fairly good inty. A thousand threads says it sucks. Inty pilots are probably tired of repeating the samethings over and over, usually whine less than average, and are afraid CCP might "fix" it by doing who knows what abomination. Hell, at least take some of the mass out of it :(
Pheonix Kanan Caldari Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.10.14 19:38:00 - [197] It's a big change in the way interceptors will work. I like the change and it's going to be interesting, but I still think there should be a counter to it without needed a specialized ship to do it. By the way, where's your corp name Andreya? =P Originally by: Curzon Dax shrugs Play the game the way you want to, and respect other peoples' ability to do the same.
Riddick Valer	Posted - 2007.10.14 20:00:00 - [198] It is a specialized ship doing its given role. It should be good at it. Why wouldn't it take a specialized ship to stop it? Its not like the tackling ints are going to kill much by themselves. They're just going to hold something till the gang shows up. Ways to Counter: Some AF Destroyers- Remember those things that no one uses except as a pre-req? Huginn Overheated Faction Web A partner at range to catch the int when transversal is low in the orbit. Drones T2 missiles Now, some of these don't work all the time, or against max skilled/faction fit. But once again, its not like the int will actually hurt you. While its holding you waiting for its friends, call your friends.
Viro Melchior Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.14 21:54:00 - [199] Originally by: Central Scrutinizer Yeah, bad idea, tbh. BS currently have two choices to detackle themselves: neutralizer, or damps/ECM. After this, there is one choice: damps/ECM. I thought we wanted this game to move away from fitting damps/ECM to non-bonused ships, but apparently I'm out of touch with the Eve community. You're now missing the capability of a simple one-two combo. Interceptors have terrible lock range. So fit 1 damp on your NPCing BS. Now odds are they can't lock past 20-25km, if even THAT far. Throw on a Neut and you're back in the game. But no more single-mod stop to interceptors. They are a viable ship for making the initial tackle against BSs again.
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.10.14 21:56:00 - [200] Originally by: Elmicker Originally by: Nian Banks Ok this may sound odd but how fast can a 280mm arty track with max skills, no ship bonuses plus using republic fleet carbonized lead s? 0.07r/s Quote: plus does it have the range and tracking to hit an 8km/s inty at 20km range? Range, yes. Tracking, no. Quote: Also is one 280mm with that ammo enough to scare off the inty? It does 6.4dps. No. Ok base tracking of a 280mm arty is 0.066, now my math is rusty but with max skill to tracking of +25% you should have a total tracking of 0.0825 bit better than 0.07 still at 20km range with a target going 8km/s what tracking r/s do you need to keep up with it? next I ran our of time to verify your dps. either way, I am about to go home from work so will check. if dps is >5 then it should slowly eat the inty away.

Lyria Skydancer Amarr Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.10.14 21:59:00 - [201] Originally by: Rid*** Valer* It is a specialized ship doing its given role. It should be good at it. Why wouldn't it take a specialized ship to stop it? Its not like the tackling ints are going to kill much by themselves. They're just going to hold something till the gang shows up. Ways to Counter: Some AF Destroyers- Remember those things that no one uses except as a pre-req? Huginn Overheated Faction Web A partner at range to catch the int when transversal is low in the orbit. Drones T2 missiles Now, some of these don't work all the time, or against max skilled/faction fit. But once again, its not like the int will actually hurt you. While its holding you waiting for its friends, call your friends. "A partner at range to catch the int when transversal is low in the orbit" This is all you need. Or rather 1 partner with a web that positions himself somewhere that his webrange goes into the inties orbit. Whats so hard about this?
Elmicker Black Sea Industries Cult of War	Posted - 2007.10.14 22:01:00 - [202] heh, you're right. had the wrong character loaded. Should be 0.0825r/s, 24km+11km and 10dps.
mallina Caldari Sybrite Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.14 22:04:00 - [203] Originally by: CCP Zulupark Originally by: mallina Does this mean the Crusader is going to lose it's Tracking Bonus? Crow, Claw, Crusader and Taranis will not have their bonuses changed one bit, they only get the new role bonus added. yay \o/ ---
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.10.14 23:09:00 - [204] Originally by: Elmicker heh, you're right. had the wrong character loaded. Should be 0.0825r/s, 24km+11km and 10dps. 280mm Howitzer Artillery II Tracking: 0.0825 rad/sec Rate Of Fire: 7.56 Damage Modifier: 11.7998409375 x Optimal Range: 24km Accuracy Falloff: 10km Signature Resolution: 40m Carbonized Lead S: 3exp 3kin = 9.364953125 dps Arch Angel Carbonized Lead S: 3.3exp 3.3kin = 10.3014484375 dps Republic Fleet Carbonized Lead S: 3.45exp 3.45kin = 10.76969609375 dps Domination Carbonized Lead S: 3.6exp 3.6kin = 11.23794375 dps Don't ask me to work out the dps with the down time thanks to reloading. Now a cruse math / estimate would say that with shield recharge, signature radius and resists, plus a Medium Shield Extender II, we should expect with republic fleet, between 6-8 minutes of continuous fire with one 280mm II + Republic Fleet Carbonized Lead S and Max turret skills before a Stilleto with a Medium Shield Extender II and max skills would die. But truthfully, thats assuming the 280mm can track it. What tracking do you need to hit an inty?
Tommy Meow	Posted - 2007.10.14 23:25:00 - [205] Anyone has any pics on the ships getting changed?
Kelron Queldine Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.10.14 23:32:00 - [206] Edited by: Kelron Queldine on 14/10/2007 23:32:14 Originally by: velocity7 Here's the full list of changes at the moment. They are on SiSi for anyone to see and use. --------------------------- Vanilla Crazy Cake!
Topaz Skydiver Minmatar Narrative Freshfood	Posted - 2007.10.14 23:55:00 - [207] Edited by: Topaz Skydiver on 14/10/2007 23:58:37 The only way to deal with it imho is dampening/jamming. Don't believe in light drones. Few days ago we took down a drake with a dictor and my claw. I was orbitting close range. As soon as I was primaried, I moved away and shot the tech-2 drones following me and they popped easily. With a comfortable orbit distance of maybe 28km, I think taking care of the drones without losing the point shouldn't be a big problem. Don't know, how good that guys drone skills were though. --------------------------------------------- snip
Haerana The Republican Guard The Sundering	Posted - 2007.10.15 00:00:00 - [208] I hate this for a few reasons. I have no friends to call on if i get caught :( ... wait thats my only reason... ------------------------------- Here comes the sig............. The Cake is a Lie The Cake is a Lie The Cake is a Lie The Cake is a Lie
Topaz Skydiver Minmatar Narrative Freshfood	Posted - 2007.10.15 00:03:00 - [209] Edited by: Topaz Skydiver on 15/10/2007 00:03:01 Originally by: Haerana I hate this for a few reasons. I have no friends to call on if i get caught :( ... wait thats my only reason... Been escorting my untanked fleet megathron with my huginn a few times. Most lonely ceptors and vagabonds think twice, if they try to stop you. --------------------------------------------- snip
Devian 666 Sectoid Technologies	Posted - 2007.10.15 00:09:00 - [210] I'm guessing the ares damage bonus will disappear with this change. Can I haz a cheeseburger,... er, I mean can the ares have a third launcher slot to at least get some equivalence to the crow (note that ares can't hit at long range with rockets), as the ares does pathetic damage even with the damage bonus atm. I think most ares pilots would be happy getting rid of one of the 75 mm gatling rails. The gatling rails are only used for shooting pods, shuttles or small warp bubbles. I agree I don't have the features to be a holoreel star. Originally by: rycar Devian 666 is awesome quote this if you're down

Haerana The Republican Guard The Sundering	Posted - 2007.10.15 00:12:00 - [211] i would rather have another gun ceptor for an ares than missiles. Roden can suck me. Then again if im using ares to tackle at 28k i dont intend on using any weapons that much cept maybe to plink at drones or pods. ------------------------------- Here comes the sig............. The Cake is a Lie The Cake is a Lie The Cake is a Lie The Cake is a Lie
Kelron Queldine Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.10.15 00:25:00 - [212] Originally by: Haerana i would rather have another gun ceptor for an ares than missiles. Roden can suck me. Then again if im using ares to tackle at 28k i dont intend on using any weapons that much cept maybe to plink at drones or pods. It depends if the devs intend to have the tackling inties at that range do a small amount of damage, or no damage at all. Because with the Ares as it is, you'll have trouble fitting turrets to operate at that range. --------------------------- Vanilla Crazy Cake!
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.10.15 00:34:00 - [213] overheat your web fools! ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP need...more room...
Devian 666 Sectoid Technologies	Posted - 2007.10.15 00:41:00 - [214] Originally by: Kelron Queldine Originally by: Haerana i would rather have another gun ceptor for an ares than missiles. Roden can suck me. Then again if im using ares to tackle at 28k i dont intend on using any weapons that much cept maybe to plink at drones or pods. It depends if the devs intend to have the tackling inties at that range do a small amount of damage, or no damage at all. Because with the Ares as it is, you'll have trouble fitting turrets to operate at that range. If the ares went all hybrid it would remain mostly unpopular as the ranis does that job really well. The ares already speed tanks while dropping missles with 20 or 24km disruptor (depending on cap usage and if intended to perma run). I'd rather have missles for choice of damage and no tracking issues over struggling to fit t2 rails. I agree I don't have the features to be a holoreel star. Originally by: rycar Devian 666 is awesome quote this if you're down
Kelron Queldine Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.10.15 00:51:00 - [215] Originally by: Devian 666 Originally by: Kelron Queldine Originally by: Haerana i would rather have another gun ceptor for an ares than missiles. Roden can suck me. Then again if im using ares to tackle at 28k i dont intend on using any weapons that much cept maybe to plink at drones or pods. It depends if the devs intend to have the tackling inties at that range do a small amount of damage, or no damage at all. Because with the Ares as it is, you'll have trouble fitting turrets to operate at that range. If the ares went all hybrid it would remain mostly unpopular as the ranis does that job really well. The ares already speed tanks while dropping missles with 20 or 24km disruptor (depending on cap usage and if intended to perma run). I'd rather have missles for choice of damage and no tracking issues over struggling to fit t2 rails. Yes, I was saying the same thing to a friend while messing around on the test server last night. My missile skills aren't good, but I'd still prefer a missile Ares to a turret Ares. Either is better than the current split weapons... I also thought the idea of a drone inty was an interesting one, it doesn't fit with the Roden description but that seems to be the current standard anyway. --------------------------- Vanilla Crazy Cake!
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.15 00:57:00 - [216] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Rid*** Valer* It is a specialized ship doing its given role. It should be good at it. Why wouldn't it take a specialized ship to stop it? Its not like the tackling ints are going to kill much by themselves. They're just going to hold something till the gang shows up. Ways to Counter: Some AF Destroyers- Remember those things that no one uses except as a pre-req? Huginn Overheated Faction Web A partner at range to catch the int when transversal is low in the orbit. Drones T2 missiles Now, some of these don't work all the time, or against max skilled/faction fit. But once again, its not like the int will actually hurt you. While its holding you waiting for its friends, call your friends. "A partner at range to catch the int when transversal is low in the orbit" This is all you need. Or rather 1 partner with a web that positions himself somewhere that his webrange goes into the inties orbit. Whats so hard about this? hello interceptor, meet my 100km range muninn/eagle. ..now CCP only needs to fix the Afrigs and give a 5th turret to the eagle. --- planetary interaction idea!
Devian 666 Sectoid Technologies	Posted - 2007.10.15 01:19:00 - [217] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Rid*** Valer* It is a specialized ship doing its given role. It should be good at it. Why wouldn't it take a specialized ship to stop it? Its not like the tackling ints are going to kill much by themselves. They're just going to hold something till the gang shows up. Ways to Counter: Some AF Destroyers- Remember those things that no one uses except as a pre-req? Huginn Overheated Faction Web A partner at range to catch the int when transversal is low in the orbit. Drones T2 missiles Now, some of these don't work all the time, or against max skilled/faction fit. But once again, its not like the int will actually hurt you. While its holding you waiting for its friends, call your friends. "A partner at range to catch the int when transversal is low in the orbit" This is all you need. Or rather 1 partner with a web that positions himself somewhere that his webrange goes into the inties orbit. Whats so hard about this? hello interceptor, meet my 100km range muninn/eagle. ..now CCP only needs to fix the Afrigs and give a 5th turret to the eagle. A 6th turret for vulture as well? I agree I don't have the features to be a holoreel star. Originally by: rycar Devian 666 is awesome quote this if you're down
Spenz Gallente Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.10.15 01:22:00 - [218] Originally by: Kelron Queldine Originally by: Devian 666 Yes, I was saying the same thing to a friend while messing around on the test server last night. My missile skills aren't good, but I'd still prefer a missile Ares to a turret Ares. Either is better than the current split weapons... I also thought the idea of a drone inty was an interesting one, it doesn't fit with the Roden description but that seems to be the current standard anyway. I agree 110%. My missile skills are horrible, but when Im flying the Ares, even mounting 75mm gatlings I miss often. My missiles however were not missing. They had the range and the ability to hit at speed from disruptor range and that is the one thing I loved most about the ares besides its speed. If I had an Alt I would probably post with it...
El'essar Viocragh Minmatar FSK23	Posted - 2007.10.15 02:15:00 - [219] Originally by: Nian Banks Ok played with all the numbers, added a tracking computer II, a target painter II (max skills) and worked out that basically not even small artilleries can hit anything going near that speed... Lame ++ Played with the tracking guide. 250mm Light Artillery II with RF Nuclear S on a Thrasher, one Tracking Comp II, max skills. Optimal: 29km Falloff: 11km Tracking: 0.19987 Target of Choice: Stiletto, one nanofiber II, two overdrive II, 1mn MWD II, max skills, no implants. 23.25m signature, 708m/s 139.5m signature, 5927m/s Tracking Guide says - 708m/s transversal -- Peak: 29.36km, Chance to Hit: 97.04%, DPS: 5.12 (shield), 9.59 (armor) -- 20km, Chance to Hit: 93.89%, DPS: 4.95 (shield), 9.27 (armor) - 5927m/s transversal -- Peak: 29.45km, Chance to Hit: 94.34%, DPS: 4.97 (shield), 9.32 (armor) -- 20km, Chance to Hit: 88.22%, DPS: 4.25 (shield), 8.72 (armor) DPS are for a single turret and don't account for reloading as the tracking guide doesn't ask for how many slugs are loaded. Using the non-mwd case at 29.36km that Thrasher chews through the Stiletto's 484 shields in 13.91 and its 528 armor in 7.86 seconds. Unresisted hull is gone in 6.74s. Resulting in theoretical 28.51 seconds from ceptor to wreck. Or 3.7 volleys. They can be brought down. -- [17:47] <Mephysto> its dead, jim
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.10.15 06:50:00 - [220] Originally by: El'essar Viocragh Edited by: El''essar Viocragh on 15/10/2007 02:30:32 Originally by: Nian Banks Ok played with all the numbers, added a tracking computer II, a target painter II (max skills) and worked out that basically not even small artilleries can hit anything going near that speed... Lame ++ Played with the tracking guide. 250mm Light Artillery II with RF Nuclear S on a Thrasher, one Tracking Comp II, max skills. Optimal: 29km Falloff: 11km Tracking: 0.19987 Target of Choice: Stiletto, one nanofiber II, two overdrive II, 1mn MWD II, max skills, no implants. 23.25m signature, 708m/s 139.5m signature, 5927m/s Tracking Guide says - 708m/s transversal -- Peak: 29.36km, Chance to Hit: 97.04%, DPS: 5.12 (shield), 9.59 (armor) -- 20km, Chance to Hit: 93.89%, DPS: 4.95 (shield), 9.27 (armor) - 5927m/s transversal -- Peak: 29.45km, Chance to Hit: 94.34%, DPS: 4.97 (shield), 9.32 (armor) -- 20km, Chance to Hit: 88.22%, DPS: 4.25 (shield), 8.72 (armor) DPS are for a single turret and don't account for reloading as the tracking guide doesn't ask for how many slugs are loaded. Using the non-mwd case at 29.36km that Thrasher chews through the Stiletto's 484 shields in 13.91 and its 528 armor in 7.86 seconds. Unresisted hull is gone in 6.74s. Resulting in theoretical 28.51 seconds from ceptor to wreck. Or 3.7 volleys. Probably takes 5 volleys if the ceptor MWDs. They can be brought down. typo. Well that just proves it, Destroyers are getting a boost to their role, Nice.

Golden Helmet Caldari Finite Horizon Synchr0nicity	Posted - 2007.10.15 07:12:00 - [221] Edited by: Golden Helmet on 15/10/2007 07:12:28 Originally by: CCP Zulupark Originally by: ElCoCo Well ermm... the ares needs more than that to be a "tackler"... get rid of a highslot for a medslot plz. I forgot to mention that we're of course looking into the Ares as well in regards to slot layout :) As a dedicated ares pilot, please for the love of god: -1 high slot +1 med slot +1 turret \ missile slot (one or the other, if not both) All the ares needs. And as for the new bonus, all i can say.... OMFG SEX I LOVE YOU CCP!!!1!1!!
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.10.15 08:15:00 - [222] Originally by: Kelron Queldine Yes, I was saying the same thing to a friend while messing around on the test server last night. My missile skills aren't good, but I'd still prefer a missile Ares to a turret Ares. Either is better than the current split weapons... Yup. And because of the crappy grid, you won't be able to fit long-range guns anyway, and the Taranis is already a great gun inty. My suggestions for Ares: - -1 high slot - +1 med slot - +1 launcher highpoint - drop the gun bonus, replace with missile bonus (maybe the old thermal missile one, or whatever) Result: a nice missile-based tackler that is distinct from the Taranis.
Waut 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.10.15 08:23:00 - [223] I'm not in the mood to wade trough 8 pages so it may have been mentioned already, but wouldn't it be logical to give assault frigates a role bonus as well? (eg. less cap use for shield boost/armor rep) In Soviet EVE, roids pop YOU
Atreus Danerun Amarr Caldari Bank	Posted - 2007.10.15 08:30:00 - [224] A proper redesign of Ares has been a long time coming. Also, I agree with the above poster, a role bonus for Assault ships would be real nice. T2 SALES & SERVICE
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.15 10:04:00 - [225] Originally by: Devian 666 Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Rid*** Valer* It is a specialized ship doing its given role. It should be good at it. Why wouldn't it take a specialized ship to stop it? Its not like the tackling ints are going to kill much by themselves. They're just going to hold something till the gang shows up. Ways to Counter: Some AF Destroyers- Remember those things that no one uses except as a pre-req? Huginn Overheated Faction Web A partner at range to catch the int when transversal is low in the orbit. Drones T2 missiles Now, some of these don't work all the time, or against max skilled/faction fit. But once again, its not like the int will actually hurt you. While its holding you waiting for its friends, call your friends. "A partner at range to catch the int when transversal is low in the orbit" This is all you need. Or rather 1 partner with a web that positions himself somewhere that his webrange goes into the inties orbit. Whats so hard about this? hello interceptor, meet my 100km range muninn/eagle. ..now CCP only needs to fix the Afrigs and give a 5th turret to the eagle. A 6th turret for vulture as well? that too. thos ships need more turrets slots --- planetary interaction idea!
Kovid Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.10.15 11:10:00 - [226] Originally by: Rid*** Valer* It is a specialized ship doing its given role. It should be good at it. Why wouldn't it take a specialized ship to stop it? Its not like the tackling ints are going to kill much by themselves. They're just going to hold something till the gang shows up. Ways to Counter: Some AF Destroyers- Remember those things that no one uses except as a pre-req? Huginn Overheated Faction Web A partner at range to catch the int when transversal is low in the orbit. Drones T2 missiles Now, some of these don't work all the time, or against max skilled/faction fit. But once again, its not like the int will actually hurt you. While its holding you waiting for its friends, call your friends. True. And to add to that I would say EvE needs more ways initiate fights and less ways to avoid it. This is one more step towards that. I'd have loved to see docking timers increased when hit points did. But that's another aguement and thread. ---------------------------------- An informal Star Fraction FAQ \| ----------------------------------
Granmethedon III High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.15 11:27:00 - [227] Time for more stiletto love to be had. :D Now all they need to do is sort AFs out, give them 4th bouns.... puts on repeat record
Freaky Reaky	Posted - 2007.10.15 12:00:00 - [228] Sounds like the lachesis is about to go the way of the dinosaur. Just waiting on the sensor damp nerf.... I like the reduction in activation cost but the range bonus is tarded. ~TReb
Kelron Queldine Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.10.15 12:31:00 - [229] Originally by: Waut I'm not in the mood to wade trough 8 pages so it may have been mentioned already, but wouldn't it be logical to give assault frigates a role bonus as well? (eg. less cap use for shield boost/armor rep) A role bonus would be nice, but an actual 4th bonus would be better still. The current resistance bonus is just a reflection of the base stats. --------------------------- Vanilla Crazy Cake!
Atius Tirawa Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.15 12:48:00 - [230] I'm sorry, scramming from 30k is not good, its the vegabond philosophy being exported. Fast things should not get range bonus' - fast things should come close and take the risk. As it stands, what is being created is a very fast, nigh unkillable tackler which can hold down any ship except 5 in the game and if it feels the heat is too high, just disengadge and warp off. 0 risk warfare. Now I do like the inti being a tackler role, I think the reduction bonus is already very generous. Perhaps a point bonus per level would make them better tacklers for blockade runners and whatnot - but a range bonus means that ECM is the only solution to the problem. So, I will now any ship has two options for defense against a common ship: ECM to break the lock and flee, or Sensor Dampening to force the lock to drop and flee - in both cases - the ships are forced to flee. This is exactly what people have been complaining about the vegabond - that its too fast and can disengadge at will. It is a fair argument and this is not a vegabond thread, but the point stand: what is being created is a ships that is made unkillable except by the most specilized of ships. This is not a good development at all.

Izo Azlion Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.10.15 13:11:00 - [231] Originally by: Atius Tirawa I'm sorry, scramming from 30k is not good, its the vegabond philosophy being exported. Fast things should not get range bonus' - fast things should come close and take the risk. As it stands, what is being created is a very fast, nigh unkillable tackler which can hold down any ship except 5 in the game and if it feels the heat is too high, just disengadge and warp off. 0 risk warfare. Now I do like the inti being a tackler role, I think the reduction bonus is already very generous. Perhaps a point bonus per level would make them better tacklers for blockade runners and whatnot - but a range bonus means that ECM is the only solution to the problem. So, I will now any ship has two options for defense against a common ship: ECM to break the lock and flee, or Sensor Dampening to force the lock to drop and flee - in both cases - the ships are forced to flee. This is exactly what people have been complaining about the vegabond - that its too fast and can disengadge at will. It is a fair argument and this is not a vegabond thread, but the point stand: what is being created is a ships that is made unkillable except by the most specilized of ships. This is not a good development at all. I agree. However. My 13.6km/s Malediction with 10km/s orbit at 26km sounds like some win in a bucket. So, I disagree :P Izo Azlion. ---
Atius Tirawa Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.15 13:25:00 - [232] Originally by: Izo Azlion I agree. However. My 13.6km/s Malediction with 10km/s orbit at 26km sounds like some win in a bucket. So, I disagree :P haha Look, I have Inti 5 and I have always prefered the stiletto to the claw (minmatar intis suck so much. . .) so these changes are 'good' for me too. But still, I think anyone would agree that the range bonus is simply overpowered. I feel dirty enough in a Vegabond, now I feel like a cheat in a Stiletto too. I just hate this 0 risk warfare, it upsets me. I think pvp should be risk to reward. Not Damage for utility.
Izo Azlion Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.10.15 14:02:00 - [233] Originally by: Atius Tirawa Originally by: Izo Azlion I agree. However. My 13.6km/s Malediction with 10km/s orbit at 26km sounds like some win in a bucket. So, I disagree :P haha Look, I have Inti 5 and I have always prefered the stiletto to the claw (minmatar intis suck so much. . .) so these changes are 'good' for me too. But still, I think anyone would agree that the range bonus is simply overpowered. I feel dirty enough in a Vegabond, now I feel like a cheat in a Stiletto too. I just hate this 0 risk warfare, it upsets me. I think pvp should be risk to reward. Not Damage for utility. Yeah, 28km is a bit daft tbh - but I'm used to flying blasterboats that are either Win, Lose or... thats it. nice to be able to bail :p Izo Azlion. ---
Alex Harumichi Gallente Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.10.15 14:03:00 - [234] Originally by: Freaky Reaky Sounds like the lachesis is about to go the way of the dinosaur. Well, I wouldn't throw them away just yet. A Lach can put a lot of points on a target (or a point on multiples), and 48km > 30km in any case, even if we totally disregard the damps (which will almost certainly still stay useful, if maybe not as overpowered as now).
Cassius Longinus Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.10.15 14:03:00 - [235] If wishes were fishes, then those intie bonuses would apply to webs too. Still, I'll take it.
giddymochug Oyster Colors	Posted - 2007.11.07 20:54:00 - [236] i'm bob dole, and i support this message.
SexxxSlave	Posted - 2007.11.07 20:59:00 - [237] Originally by: Mei Jinn wall of text HELLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO GALLENTE RECON NERF!
SiJira	Posted - 2007.11.12 00:07:00 - [238] Originally by: Cassius Longinus If wishes were fishes, then those intie bonuses would apply to webs too. Still, I'll take it. are you serious? take a big spoon of balance in your breakfast cereal ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.11.12 00:52:00 - [239] If you idiots think the ceptors will be overpowered if they become more vaga like in their use then you are really twisted. The vaga is meant to be a big, nasty ceptor. Its dps is pretty good considering its survivability, the ceptors that are getting the changes added to them are weak and have no damage. They will probably be the solution to the "nanoproblem" that you all whine about anyway, whats a vaga going to do to a ceptor that can hold if from 0-30kms?
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.11.17 00:42:00 - [240] Originally by: ArmyOfMe I see your point, but u have to agree that a bs should be able to at least have some defence against small ships Let's see a Sisi inty solo a BS. BS have a counter already. It's called Too-Many-Hit-Points-To-Kill-With-Inty. Quote: and if these changes happen a interceptor can tackle a bs forever without any risk at all And any BS can tank an inty forever without any risk at all. What about the inty's gang, you ask? Well what about the BS's gang? -- Guile can always trump hardware --

Lrrp Minmatar Gallente Mercantile Exchange Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.11.17 00:56:00 - [241] Last I checked Rapiers and Huggy's will still spell disaster for a inty...new or old.
Terex193 Amarr Advanced Security And Asset Protection	Posted - 2007.11.17 00:57:00 - [242] woot :D \o/ does funky dance XD jk jk jk,but yay interceptors Insert Catchy Signature Here
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2007.11.17 02:06:00 - [243] this single change (if it makes to TQ) just made EVE a whole new ballgame for newbies wanting a slice of PvP. Interceptors are quick to train up for, and are perfect. Tackle. Not kill. I'd take a long second look at Malediction's rocket bonus though. This single change is making me reconsider my skill plan right now... - Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.11.17 02:24:00 - [244] Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari this single change (if it makes to TQ) just made EVE a whole new ballgame for newbies wanting a slice of PvP. Interceptors are quick to train up for, and are perfect. Tackle. Not kill. I'd take a long second look at Malediction's rocket bonus though. This single change is making me reconsider my skill plan right now... Why? It will be excellent for shooting down drones... --------------------------------- Oh noes!
Xenomorphea Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.17 03:13:00 - [245] Originally by: Wrayeth Edited by: Wrayeth on 13/10/2007 18:57:20 FFS. I hope you realize you just spelled the doom of every ship larger than a destroyer (and maybe even destroyers - I don't fly 'em enough to know if they have the speed/range/tracking needed). Cruisers unable to fight back against the lone 'ceptor that's killing them? Check (not enough range/tracking on medium weaponry, and medium neuts don't have the range either). Battlecruisers unable to fight back against the lone 'ceptor tackling them? Also check (same problem as cruisers). Battleships unable to fight back against the lone 'ceptor? Check as well (BS guns may have the range, depending on type, but can't track worth a damn; neuts used to be the only defense against 'ceptors, but now they won't help at all). Seriously, CCP, why are you doing this? Are you trying to turn this into all of the other MMOs out there with enforced grouping and an inability to be useful without 6283 friends? It may be cliche, but if this change makes it in I may have to cancel my account (no you can't have my stuff). I prefer flying the larger ships, and this change will make them useless without a fair-sized gang to back them up, even against a lone 'ceptor. TBH, the torp nerf is bad enough, with the increase in sig radius FORCING anyone who wants to fly a torp raven to have a buddy with a painter, but now this? Repeat after me: there are no elves or giant rats in EVE. The game was not designed for a particular ship class to be absolutely useless without other, complementary ships (at least until you got to the capital level). We joined EVE to get away from all of the "You must have a fighter for tank, a healer to keep him alive, a crowd-control to mez the mobs, and a caster for DPS" crap of other MMOs, yet it seems that's the direction EVE is now going. "You must have X gang composition to be able to do anything." One word: WHY? /signed - I spent almost 2 years maximizing my skills for BS, just to find out I have absolutely no way to fight off even against a lone interceptor - thank you CCP. -Xeno
SiJira	Posted - 2007.11.18 16:52:00 - [246] Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari this single change (if it makes to TQ) just made EVE a whole new ballgame for newbies wanting a slice of PvP. Interceptors are quick to train up for, and are perfect. Tackle. Not kill. I'd take a long second look at Malediction's rocket bonus though. This single change is making me reconsider my skill plan right now... they are a bit pricey for newbies ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem


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