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Laser Thorax better than Laser Omen?

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Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards	Posted - 2008.01.27 09:09:00 - [1] Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 27/01/2008 09:09:52 So far, peoples exceuses are that "Omg Lasers are long Rangezors" But let us discuss the ships and modules in this.... ships and modules forum. People call me a EFT warrior when I dont use EFT, but what the hell, today will be my first day of EFT. But in real practical terms, if someone used a laser thorax, they get the "instant Reload and Omg Range" which some people think make amarr omgPWN. And since the Omwn is impossible to fit, I will use Focused Medium pulse, which is the lowest t2 tier of medium gun, as a omen with 2 guns fitted is a joke. Since Omen needs CPU, I will use a couple of named modules as well on it. Omen: 4 x Focused Pulse/w Amarr MF 10mn MWD II, J5 Proto Scam, Fleeting Web 2 x Heatsink II, 2 x EANM II, Co-Processer II Thorax: 5 x Focused Pulse w/Amarr MF 10mn MWD II, J5 Proto Scam, Fleeting Web 2 x Heatsink II, 2 x EANM II, 1 x 800 Plate 5 x Hammerhead II Omen and Thorax both in same setup, but omen needs CPU mod. Omen needs to drop 2 eamn to fit rcu + plate, which is not effective IMO. Thorax does 422 DPS Omen does 341 DPS Thorax's cap lasts longer with all mods on. Thorax has MORE CAP, MORE CAP RECHARGE, MORE ARMOUR, 2 x the Effective Hitpoints, MORE DPS and outclasses Omen in every single way. Thorax should have its drone bay remove to be competitive with other races, as it is way overpowered currently. Oh great, my sig is nerfed to make it impossible to change. Another Amarr Nerf. :( Sig locked, lack of Eve content
Malken Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2008.01.27 09:14:00 - [2] lol is all i can say
LiGhTbUlB PlEaSe	Posted - 2008.01.27 09:18:00 - [3] Edited by: LiGhTbUlB PlEaSe on 27/01/2008 09:18:09 Did u ever think with all of your hours spent on here moaning about your race (granted some points are good) that maybe for your own wellbeing and stress lvls that another race might be a option?
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards	Posted - 2008.01.27 09:24:00 - [4] Originally by: LiGhTbUlB PlEaSe Edited by: LiGhTbUlB PlEaSe on 27/01/2008 09:18:09 Did u ever think with all of your hours spent on here moaning about your race (granted some points are good) that maybe for your own wellbeing and stress lvls that another race might be a option? Listen man, I dont play this game to be told by a smart ass prepubecesint on a internet forum that I should do a "50 step retrain" for something that requires predecent knowledge. Nor is it sensible to suggest such a thing. Why did you not retain Amarr when Amarr used to be good? If it was not for people like you, Amarr would never be nerfed in the first place. Sig locked, lack of Eve content
Bager Gray Gallente COBRA INC Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.01.27 09:24:00 - [5] Oh God Jonny JoJo is back.
NaBeRa DRUCKWELLE Majesta Empire	Posted - 2008.01.27 09:26:00 - [6] easy solution, give the Omen more CPU, more Grid, more Cap and a 5ths turret. it would do 414dps with 5 Heavy Pulse II and 3 Hobgoblin II (all lvl5). well, thorax with laser would still be better :D
Malken Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2008.01.27 09:27:00 - [7] Originally by: NaBeRa well, thorax with laser would still be better :D wouldnt that still be wrong?
Corwain Gallente Down In Flames	Posted - 2008.01.27 09:30:00 - [8] Compare the Maller to the Thorax and the Omen to the Vexor, thanks. --
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards	Posted - 2008.01.27 09:32:00 - [9] Originally by: Corwain Compare the Maller to the Thorax and the Omen to the Vexor, thanks. Go on, compare them - Laser Thorax outclasses Maller in every way, and Vexor eats omen for lunch Sig locked, lack of Eve content
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2008.01.27 09:35:00 - [10] The omen is a piece of ****, and there's no denying it. The Maller is passable if you fit autocannons, but when you need to fit other race's weapons on your cruisers to suck less, something ain't right. Amarr have terrible T1 cruisers.
Corwain Gallente Down In Flames	Posted - 2008.01.27 09:36:00 - [11] Edited by: Corwain on 27/01/2008 09:38:07 Of course, but if you'd done that you'd find that for the same tank as your omen setup the Vexor with lasers actually does more damage than the thorax with lasers. EDIT: your thorax setup does 422 dps, a vexor does 543 dps. --
LiGhTbUlB PlEaSe	Posted - 2008.01.27 09:40:00 - [12] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: LiGhTbUlB PlEaSe Edited by: LiGhTbUlB PlEaSe on 27/01/2008 09:18:09 Did u ever think with all of your hours spent on here moaning about your race (granted some points are good) that maybe for your own wellbeing and stress lvls that another race might be a option? Listen man, I dont play this game to be told by a smart ass prepubecesint on a internet forum that I should do a "50 step retrain" for something that requires predecent knowledge. Nor is it sensible to suggest such a thing. Why did you not retain Amarr when Amarr used to be good? If it was not for people like you, Amarr would never be nerfed in the first place. Clam down and chill out So u want us to be as good as we used to be, mmmmm there best darn mining ships out there well thats something worth looking forward too
Corwain Gallente Down In Flames	Posted - 2008.01.27 09:41:00 - [13] Edited by: Corwain on 27/01/2008 09:41:17 <3 EFT...this is kinda fun fitting absolutely no tank to ships and seeing how much damage they do and how much base HP they have... /sarcasm --
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.27 09:51:00 - [14] Jonny, who let you out of your cave? P.s. If a thorax outdamages a Omen with lasers, please, go train up for a thorax and fit it with lasers, but please, leave this forum alone because it should be obvious already 'we' dont care what you have to say. Nice hamster! - Mindstar Thanks! We wont touch this sig! - Cortes I lied - Cortes LIAR!
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards	Posted - 2008.01.27 09:51:00 - [15] Originally by: Corwain Edited by: Corwain on 27/01/2008 09:41:17 <3 EFT...this is kinda fun fitting absolutely no tank to ships and seeing how much damage they do and how much base HP they have... /sarcasm Yep. People in thorax's no longer use plated buffer Ships. But if you want, please remove 2 EANM on Omen and put in a RCU an a Rep. Just makes the numbers look even worse. LOL Sig locked, lack of Eve content
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.27 09:52:00 - [16] Now, the setup to make you all cry... the LaserMoa! Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Medium Shield Extender II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Warp Disruptor II Heavy Pulse Laser II,Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II,Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II,Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II,Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II,Caldari Navy Hellfire Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II,Caldari Navy Hellfire Assault Missile Drones_Active=Hobgoblin II,3 376 DPS!!!
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards	Posted - 2008.01.27 09:53:00 - [17] Originally by: arbalesttom Jonny, who let you out of your cave? P.s. If a thorax outdamages a Omen with lasers, please, go train up for a thorax and fit it with lasers, but please, leave this forum alone because it should be obvious already 'we' dont care what you have to say. Why should a Amarr player have to retrain because of Lasers. Do you beleive it is acceptable for a new Amarr player (and hundreds will be coming via steam) that they be told by a Internet Forum post that they should have had predecent knowldge of Amarr before playing the game? Are you going to give me SP back that I trained into Amarr so I can train Gallente? Sig locked, lack of Eve content
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards	Posted - 2008.01.27 09:55:00 - [18] Originally by: Corwain Edited by: Corwain on 27/01/2008 09:38:07 Of course, but if you'd done that you'd find that for the same tank as your omen setup the Vexor with lasers actually does more damage than the thorax with lasers. EDIT: your thorax setup does 422 dps, a vexor does 543 dps. I said in my post I was being conservitive by using crappy focused lasers on thorax, so it can compare to omen which is impossible to fit. I already know Vexor can chew up omen. Sig locked, lack of Eve content
GHO57	Posted - 2008.01.27 09:59:00 - [19] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Thorax should have its drone bay remove to be competitive with other races, as it is way overpowered currently. Even if the thorax is better than Omen is that the solution? "nerf, nerf", why don't ya try to play the game instead of whining? Maller and Arbi are good ships, try to fly them.
Corwain Gallente Down In Flames	Posted - 2008.01.27 10:13:00 - [20] Arbitrator 2x HPL II, 1x HAM II, Small Dim Nos MWD II, J5 disruptor, web, balmer TD 3x HS II, 1x BCU II 5x Hammerhead II OMG 419 DPS GUYS, GALLENTE NEED A NERF, THEY GET EWAR, AND CAPWAR AND MOAR DPS THAN THE OMEN, AMARR SUCK...Oh wait, my bad Arby is an Amarr ship...as you were! --
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.27 10:20:00 - [21] Edited by: arbalesttom on 27/01/2008 10:22:12 Jonny, back to your cave please. When do you start realizing that if no one agrees with your (lame) points, you shouldnt be posting at all? Because all you do is whine, you cant run the numbers (like all previous post you did, all whinage and no numbers) and you really start irritating alot of people in this channel. Go. Away. Now. (ps. i trained for caldari untill i found out i picked 'my' wrong race, so should that be a legitimate reason to whine on the forums? no! should that be a reason to cry about 'zomg i lots training time because i picked a race i dont like, please ccp i want it back'? no!) Nice hamster! - Mindstar Thanks! We wont touch this sig! - Cortes I lied - Cortes LIAR!
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2008.01.27 10:28:00 - [22] ITT: Setups that hurt more than physical blows ever could.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.	Posted - 2008.01.27 10:28:00 - [23] Tier 3 > Tier 2. shock -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.27 10:30:00 - [24] Edited by: arbalesttom on 27/01/2008 10:34:27 Edited by: arbalesttom on 27/01/2008 10:30:09 Originally by: James Lyrus Tier 3 > Tier 2. shock Jonny doesnt know what that means, hes a official eft warrior now. And yeah, we all know eft = eve....so... Nice hamster! - Mindstar Thanks! We wont touch this sig! - Cortes I lied - Cortes LIAR!
Great Artista Caldari Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2008.01.27 10:42:00 - [25] EFT or not, regardless of the tier, there is something fundamentally wrong with laser rax out damaging an omen. _______ Do yuo liek stabbers? ◕◡◕
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2008.01.27 10:43:00 - [26] [Exequror, lulz] Draclira's Modified Heat Sink Draclira's Modified Heat Sink Draclira's Modified Heat Sink Thukker Medium Shield Extender Estamel's Modified Invulnerability Field Estamel's Modified Invulnerability Field Domination Warp Disruptor Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Ancillary Current Router II Ancillary Current Router II Ancillary Current Router I Hammerhead II x3 Hobgoblin II x2 OMG 16k EHP, 446 DPS amarr sux nerf!
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards	Posted - 2008.01.27 10:53:00 - [27] Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad Originally by: William Hartas There's a video kicking around (can't remember who by) of a guy doing lots of solo PvP in a laser fitted Thorax. It's pretty damn awesome so this suggestion isn't as dumb as some people are saying. It still isn't as smart as a conventional throax fit. So what you are saying is that fitting lasers on a thorax is as silly as fitting them on Amarr ships. I agree with this which is why Amarr players use projectiles or even blasters since lasers are a joke. Sig locked, lack of Eve content
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.27 10:54:00 - [28] Originally by: Great Artista EFT or not, regardless of the tier, there is something fundamentally wrong with laser rax out damaging an omen. yeah, and how long do you think the cap lasts? So even then, its moot (but yeah jonny doesnt see that and will sprew moar crap around in this thread) Nice hamster! - Mindstar Thanks! We wont touch this sig! - Cortes I lied - Cortes LIAR!
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2008.01.27 10:55:00 - [29] Edited by: Paulo Damarr on 27/01/2008 10:55:15 I think jonny has a point here, the Thorax does more damage with unbonused weapons than the ship that's "supposed" to fit them. Sometimes I look at the Gallente ships and wonder if the design team that created them worked in isolation and never looked at the other races ships for example compare:- Thorax, Omen, Moa Brutix, Ferox, Prophecy The Gallente ships not only have hugely damaging weapons with damage bonuses on most ships but they also come with massive drone bays. I know Gallente are the "drone ships" but why do they also get crap loads of turrets to?
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2008.01.27 10:55:00 - [30] Originally by: Corwain Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad Originally by: William Hartas There's a video kicking around (can't remember who by) of a guy doing lots of solo PvP in a laser fitted Thorax. It's pretty damn awesome so this suggestion isn't as dumb as some people are saying. It still isn't as smart as a conventional throax fit. Depends what situation you're in and what ship you're fighting... Fair enough. I should say that in the majority of situations a conventional thorax fit is likely to outperform a laser thorax.
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards	Posted - 2008.01.27 10:56:00 - [31] Originally by: Corwain Arbitrator 2x HPL II, 1x HAM II, Small Dim Nos MWD II, J5 disruptor, web, balmer TD 3x HS II, 1x BCU II 5x Hammerhead II OMG 419 DPS GUYS, GALLENTE NEED A NERF, THEY GET EWAR, AND CAPWAR AND MOAR DPS THAN THE OMEN, AMARR SUCK...Oh wait, my bad Arby is an Amarr ship...as you were! Wait, that Arbitrator has more CAP, more CAP recharge, MORE ARMOUR, More RESISTS, More Effective Hitpoints, More Everything than a Laser THorax? Oh wait, Laser Thorax has more everthing than Laser Omen. Also, Vexor > Arbitrator so you even fail at droneships. Sig locked, lack of Eve content
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2008.01.27 10:59:00 - [32] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad Originally by: William Hartas There's a video kicking around (can't remember who by) of a guy doing lots of solo PvP in a laser fitted Thorax. It's pretty damn awesome so this suggestion isn't as dumb as some people are saying. It still isn't as smart as a conventional throax fit. So what you are saying is that fitting lasers on a thorax is as silly as fitting them on Amarr ships. I agree with this which is why Amarr players use projectiles or even blasters since lasers are a joke. No. Fitting them on the Maller is generally inferior to a fitting that uses another race's weapons primarily for DPS though. The omen would be even worse if you didn't fit it with lasers. It's more of a ship issue than a weapon system issue if you ask me.
Gladiator Jonny Omniscient Order Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.27 11:00:00 - [33] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: Corwain Arbitrator 2x HPL II, 1x HAM II, Small Dim Nos MWD II, J5 disruptor, web, balmer TD 3x HS II, 1x BCU II 5x Hammerhead II OMG 419 DPS GUYS, GALLENTE NEED A NERF, THEY GET EWAR, AND CAPWAR AND MOAR DPS THAN THE OMEN, AMARR SUCK...Oh wait, my bad Arby is an Amarr ship...as you were! Wait, that Arbitrator has more CAP, more CAP recharge, MORE ARMOUR, More RESISTS, More Effective Hitpoints, More Everything than a Laser THorax? Oh wait, Laser Thorax has more everthing than Laser Omen. Also, Vexor > Arbitrator so you even fail at droneships. Arb > Vexor tbh. Yea it gets less drone bay, but it gets more armor and a more usefull bonus. (who uses medium guns on a vexor anyhow? As for the comment earlier about Brutix - Ferox - Prophecy Yea... brutix has a shed load more damage. If it wants to use that damage the tank is basically JoJo, man up. If you dont like a ship dont fly it. If you dont like a race, dont train it ffs.
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2008.01.27 11:00:00 - [34] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: Corwain Arbitrator 2x HPL II, 1x HAM II, Small Dim Nos MWD II, J5 disruptor, web, balmer TD 3x HS II, 1x BCU II 5x Hammerhead II OMG 419 DPS GUYS, GALLENTE NEED A NERF, THEY GET EWAR, AND CAPWAR AND MOAR DPS THAN THE OMEN, AMARR SUCK...Oh wait, my bad Arby is an Amarr ship...as you were! Wait, that Arbitrator has more CAP, more CAP recharge, MORE ARMOUR, More RESISTS, More Effective Hitpoints, More Everything than a Laser THorax? Oh wait, Laser Thorax has more everthing than Laser Omen. Also, Vexor > Arbitrator so you even fail at droneships. Vexor isn't an EW ship.
Everyone Dies Caldari Lucky Tampon	Posted - 2008.01.27 11:15:00 - [35] Edited by: Everyone Dies on 27/01/2008 11:15:51 Tell me the vexor isn't overpowered: 4x Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M Small Nosferatu II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Stasis Webifier II Faint Warp Prohibitor I 400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 2xMagnetic Field Stabilizer II Damage Control II Hammerhead II x2 Hobgoblin II x1 Ogre II x2 654 DPS If anything Gallente dps needs to be looked at again.
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.27 11:15:00 - [36] Damn, looks like Jonny's ban was only temporary... --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.27 11:18:00 - [37] On a sidenote, please check the link in my bio because i think its really important! *Warning! Sig ahead!* Bounty: Jonny JoJo
Bazman Caldari Shinra Shinra Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.27 11:21:00 - [38] Your 624dps Vexor will die when sneezed at in that setup. Extreme firepower generally goes with an extreme lack of defense, at least until you approach BC/BS sized ships. What Amarr lack in frigates and cruisers, they more than make up for in HAC's/Recons and Battleships. Change the record and go whine about Minmatar battleships or something. -----
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.27 11:32:00 - [39] Originally by: Corwain Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad Originally by: William Hartas There's a video kicking around (can't remember who by) of a guy doing lots of solo PvP in a laser fitted Thorax. It's pretty damn awesome so this suggestion isn't as dumb as some people are saying. It still isn't as smart as a conventional throax fit. Depends what situation you're in and what ship you're fighting... Please name a situation where a laser thorax is superior to a thorax fitting hybrid guns.
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards	Posted - 2008.01.27 11:36:00 - [40] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Corwain Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad Originally by: William Hartas There's a video kicking around (can't remember who by) of a guy doing lots of solo PvP in a laser fitted Thorax. It's pretty damn awesome so this suggestion isn't as dumb as some people are saying. It still isn't as smart as a conventional throax fit. Depends what situation you're in and what ship you're fighting... Please name a situation where a laser thorax is superior to a thorax fitting hybrid guns. Please name a situation where a laser omen is superior to a thorax fitting laser guns Sig locked, lack of Eve content
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.27 11:37:00 - [41] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Corwain Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad Originally by: William Hartas There's a video kicking around (can't remember who by) of a guy doing lots of solo PvP in a laser fitted Thorax. It's pretty damn awesome so this suggestion isn't as dumb as some people are saying. It still isn't as smart as a conventional throax fit. Depends what situation you're in and what ship you're fighting... Please name a situation where a laser thorax is superior to a thorax fitting hybrid guns. Please name a situation where a laser omen is superior to a thorax fitting laser guns Please name a thread where you didnt trolled in the first place *Warning! Sig ahead!* Bounty: Jonny JoJo
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2008.01.27 11:39:00 - [42] Oh wow. You mean there's actually something to those Laseraxes I see about the place? EVE RELATED CONTENT
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards	Posted - 2008.01.27 11:40:00 - [43] Originally by: Bazman Your 624dps Vexor will die when sneezed at in that setup. Extreme firepower generally goes with an extreme lack of defense, at least until you approach BC/BS sized ships. What Amarr lack in frigates and cruisers, they more than make up for in HAC's/Recons and Battleships. Change the record and go whine about Minmatar battleships or something. This is thread about how useless Amarr is. Minmatar got 100% cap reduction bonus to projectiles, and this should be fixed asap Sig locked, lack of Eve content
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.27 11:44:00 - [44] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: Bazman Your 624dps Vexor will die when sneezed at in that setup. Extreme firepower generally goes with an extreme lack of defense, at least until you approach BC/BS sized ships. What Amarr lack in frigates and cruisers, they more than make up for in HAC's/Recons and Battleships. Change the record and go whine about Minmatar battleships or something. This is thread about how useless Amarr is. Minmatar got 100% cap reduction bonus to projectiles, and this should be fixed asap Why? Because you say so? Because you dont have a clue? Because you fail about backing up your words with numbers? Because eft says so? Because your buddy in his ubar farmer cnr said so? Because you dont know how to fly amarr? Because what jonny? Please mods, ban him for a year next time. *Warning! Sig ahead!* Bounty: Jonny JoJo
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.27 11:47:00 - [45] Originally by: arbalesttom Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Corwain Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad Originally by: William Hartas There's a video kicking around (can't remember who by) of a guy doing lots of solo PvP in a laser fitted Thorax. It's pretty damn awesome so this suggestion isn't as dumb as some people are saying. It still isn't as smart as a conventional throax fit. Depends what situation you're in and what ship you're fighting... Please name a situation where a laser thorax is superior to a thorax fitting hybrid guns. Please name a situation where a laser omen is superior to a thorax fitting laser guns Please name a thread where you didnt trolled in the first place You didnt answer my question.
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.27 11:49:00 - [46] Edited by: arbalesttom on 27/01/2008 11:51:09 Did i missed a question directed to me gamesguy? *Warning! Sig ahead!* Bounty: Jonny JoJo
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.27 12:12:00 - [47] Originally by: arbalesttom Edited by: arbalesttom on 27/01/2008 11:51:09 Did i missed a question directed to me gamesguy? http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=691963&page=2#43
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.27 12:18:00 - [48] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: arbalesttom Edited by: arbalesttom on 27/01/2008 11:51:09 Did i missed a question directed to me gamesguy? http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=691963&page=2#43 That was a Jonny reply, read it plz Are you referring to: "Please name a situation where a laser thorax is superior to a thorax fitting hybrid guns. Please name a situation where a laser omen is superior to a thorax fitting laser guns" Those wherent my ones... *Warning! Sig ahead!* Bounty: Jonny JoJo
Malken Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2008.01.27 12:28:00 - [49] Originally by: arbalesttom Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: arbalesttom Edited by: arbalesttom on 27/01/2008 11:51:09 Did i missed a question directed to me gamesguy? http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=691963&page=2#43 That was a Jonny reply, read it plz Are you referring to: "Please name a situation where a laser thorax is superior to a thorax fitting hybrid guns. Please name a situation where a laser omen is superior to a thorax fitting laser guns" Those wherent my ones... funny you are complaining that jojo is trolling and here you are obviously stalking and trolling him in a thread where he actually got a point. just fricking stop posting soon or hopefully the mods will make you stop being able to post because you are trolling.
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.27 12:34:00 - [50] Originally by: Malken Originally by: arbalesttom Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: arbalesttom Edited by: arbalesttom on 27/01/2008 11:51:09 Did i missed a question directed to me gamesguy? http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=691963&page=2#43 That was a Jonny reply, read it plz Are you referring to: "Please name a situation where a laser thorax is superior to a thorax fitting hybrid guns. Please name a situation where a laser omen is superior to a thorax fitting laser guns" Those wherent my ones... funny you are complaining that jojo is trolling and here you are obviously stalking and trolling him in a thread where he actually got a point. just fricking stop posting soon or hopefully the mods will make you stop being able to post because you are trolling. Yes, im trolling jonny's posts because he trolls the forum. If you start comparing tier2 to tier3 cruisers you fail. If you didnt noticed already, all we get from Jonny is 'amarr is crap this and that' posts wich are FAR FROM CONSTRUCTIVE/USEFULL. And what i wanted to ask gamesguy was, i dont know what 'question' he was referring to wich i should answer, so thats why i asked....................................... And please, stop derailing this thread yourself if you dont like what im doing eiter....your not the most constructive one in this thread as well. *Warning! Sig ahead!* Bounty: Jonny JoJo
Mik kyo D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.27 12:41:00 - [51] Originally by: Gamesguy Please name a situation where a laser thorax is superior to a thorax fitting hybrid guns. small neutron 1600mm plate thorax, medium blaster rax when out of web range.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.01.27 12:51:00 - [52] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/01/2008 12:55:11 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/01/2008 12:50:58 LOL! To add some proper trolling: RABBLE RABBLE! Also, why does the Autocannon Thorax do more DPS then the Autocannon Stabber?!? Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2008.01.27 13:00:00 - [53] Edited by: Paulo Damarr on 27/01/2008 13:02:49 I dont think some people are seeing the point Jonnys trying to make, A conventionally fit Thorax is obviously superior to the laser fit version posted here and that's the issue here, A Thorax fitted with unbonused weapons from another race not only out damages a ship intended to mount those weapons it does it by a significant degree and to add insult to injury it is more cap efficient than the ship with a cap reduction bonus. Also remember a "properly" fit Thorax is even more superior. Originally by: Cpt Branko Also, why does the Autocannon Thorax do more DPS then the Autocannon Stabber?!? Furthermore, a unarmed Thorax (just drones) does more DPS then a AML II Caracal (w/out damage mods)! Because the Thorax like many Gallente ships is busted.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.01.27 13:02:00 - [54] Originally by: Paulo Damarr I dont think some people are seeing the point Jonnys trying to make, A conventionally fit Thorax is obviously superior to the laser fit version posted here and that's the issue here, A Thorax fitted with unbonused weapons from another race not only out damages a ship intended to mount those weapons it does it by a significant degree and to add insult to injury it is more cap efficient than the ship with a cap reduction bonus. Also remember a "properly" fit Thorax is even more superior. But a autocannon thorax is so superior to the autocannon stabber Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
mama guru Gallente Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.01.27 13:13:00 - [55] DO NOT. NERF. GALLENTE. Boost Amarr, thats the way to go. If anything, gallente should be the role model for "balance" *signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link) - Jacques([email protected]) EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.01.27 13:19:00 - [56] Originally by: Paulo Damarr Originally by: Cpt Branko Also, why does the Autocannon Thorax do more DPS then the Autocannon Stabber?!? Furthermore, a unarmed Thorax (just drones) does more DPS then a AML II Caracal (w/out damage mods)! Because the Thorax like many Gallente ships is busted. No, it's because you cannot balance Tier 2 cruisers and Tier 3 cruisers. Both the Stabber,the Omen and the Caracal are different animals then a Thorax and do not, in fact, have much of a chance in direct combat. The only Tier 2 cruiser which can stand up to its Tier 3 brother (partially) is the Vexor, anyway. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2008.01.27 13:30:00 - [57] Except for perhaps the Rupture the Thorax still outclasses the other T1 tier 3 cruisers, Seriously compare the Moa and the Thorax and tell me that whoever designed and balanced them carefully compared and thought it through. Even if the Rax had a stupid 10m3 drone bay it would still be much better but it doesn't it has 50m3 The Gallente ships are great ships which then have a powerful secondary system tacked on.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.01.27 13:34:00 - [58] Originally by: Paulo Damarr Except for perhaps the Rupture the Thorax still outclasses the other T1 tier 3 cruisers, Seriously compare the Moa and the Thorax and tell me that whoever designed and balanced them carefully compared and thought it through. Even if the Rax had a stupid 10m3 drone bay it would still be much better but it doesn't it has 50m3 The Gallente ships are great ships which then have a powerful secondary system tacked on. Rupture and Thorax are very well balanced. Moa and Maller are a bit weaker in comparison. I don't have a clue what would I do with a Moa in particular. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2008.01.27 13:44:00 - [59] I'm not saying that Gallante needs to be nerfed I'm just pointing out some examples of where the game balance is way out of whack, as well as nerfing modules the balance team needs to take a serious look at every ship from the ground up and boost some ships instead of applying heavy handed nerfs. Plus the whole tier concept seems outdated, I'm sure it made sense in eves earlier days but now the price difference and the extra training times are almost irrelevant and a better system could be worked out instead of artificial tier limitations.
Meridius Dex Amarr Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.01.27 15:05:00 - [60] Johnny, are you stalking me? It's funny, but I posted this same fact about a week ago: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=685012&page=3#86 I originally cross-trained to Gallente to rat Guristas in zero sec in a (pre-nerf) Mrymidon. Not only did I realize it outclassed pretty much everything in the Amarr line (post-nerf, it has been balanced), but that it could both gank and dual-rep active tank with total cap stability. As an Amarrian, I can only imagine what actual cap stability must be like. Imagine flying a ship without requiring at least 2-3 slots for cap modules... it's like a wonderful dream... Imagine my even greater surprise to find that I could actually fit a Thorax WITH LASERS and get better DPS, better speed, better tank and - wait for it - better better cap stability than either an Omen or Maller. That's just.. sad. Yeah, Amarr have no issues. Right. -- Meridius Dex -- Amarr = EVE on Hard setting
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.27 15:20:00 - [61] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 27/01/2008 15:20:40 Originally by: Meridius Dex Johnny, are you stalking me? It's funny, but I posted this same fact about a week ago: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=685012&page=3#86 I originally cross-trained to Gallente to rat Guristas in zero sec in a (pre-nerf) Mrymidon. Not only did I realize it outclassed pretty much everything in the Amarr line (post-nerf, it has been balanced), but that it could both gank and dual-rep active tank with total cap stability. As an Amarrian, I can only imagine what actual cap stability must be like. Imagine flying a ship without requiring at least 2-3 slots for cap modules... it's like a wonderful dream... Imagine my even greater surprise to find that I could actually fit a Thorax WITH LASERS and get better DPS, better speed, better tank and - wait for it - better better cap stability than either an Omen or Maller. That's just.. sad. Yeah, Amarr have no issues. Right. CCP employees that put abominations like pre nerf myrmidon and eos into the game should be fired. Either they have an iq of a monkey or they havent looked at a single figure about the ship nor tested anything about it or compared it to the other races ships. Why do we want a nerf on overpowered gallente cruisers now instead of a boost to the other ones? Because we all know Boost Patch is going to be a joke so we'll just trust in the nerf power of ccp instead because it has already done something (the 2 ships mentioned above) to balance issues. Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.01.27 15:44:00 - [62] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Why do we want a nerf on overpowered gallente cruisers now instead of a boost to the other ones? Because we all know Boost Patch is going to be a joke so we'll just trust in the nerf power of ccp instead because it has already done something (the 2 ships mentioned above) to balance issues. LOL. The Thorax does not need a nerf. Since it's quite balanced with the Rupture, really, in realistic combat situations (and not EFT whoring). Furthermore, the cruisers are quite in line with bigger ships/etc, so. It's the Moa and the Maller which need love. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Josh Causto Gallente Fatalix Inc. Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.27 16:16:00 - [63] People still fly t1 cruisers? Originally by: Speed Devil Originally by: ReePeR McAllem Everytime you fit anything other than a laser on our ships, babies die. and when ya fit lasers on your ships nothing dies
Lili Lu Victory Not Vengeance	Posted - 2008.01.27 16:18:00 - [64] Edited by: Lili Lu on 27/01/2008 16:20:18 Originally by: Meridius Dex Johnny, are you stalking me? It's funny, but I posted this same fact about a week ago: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=685012&page=3#86 I originally cross-trained to Gallente to rat Guristas in zero sec in a (pre-nerf) Mrymidon. Not only did I realize it outclassed pretty much everything in the Amarr line (post-nerf, it has been balanced), but that it could both gank and dual-rep active tank with total cap stability. As an Amarrian, I can only imagine what actual cap stability must be like. Imagine flying a ship without requiring at least 2-3 slots for cap modules... it's like a wonderful dream... Imagine my even greater surprise to find that I could actually fit a Thorax WITH LASERS and get better DPS, better speed, better tank and - wait for it - better better cap stability than either an Omen or Maller. That's just.. sad. Yeah, Amarr have no issues. Right. Very well stated (Dex's sig also states the general propostion quite well). And to go off on a similar tangent, let's not forget powergrid: I have a gallente alt. That toon has not even begun training awu, but he can fit 7 425 on a hyperion plus a reasonable level 4 mission tank with only one power diagnostic. My amarr toon needed awu3 or 4 to fit 7 tachs and similar tank with one pdu on an abaddon. Speaking from experience, no EFT comparison there. Some folks may not like JoJo's methods and delivery, but underlying his complaints are some valid points. Amarr laser ships have serious problems. And I do fly other races, and they are on the whole much better options than amarr, which is sad because i like lasers and gold hulls for a spaceship game, .
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.27 16:19:00 - [65] Originally by: Cpt Branko It's the Moa and the Maller which need love. Uhm you dont think omen needs love? LoL Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.27 16:20:00 - [66] Originally by: Josh Causto People still fly t1 cruisers? I would if they wouldnt suck. Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.01.27 16:37:00 - [67] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Cpt Branko It's the Moa and the Maller which need love. Uhm you dont think omen needs love? LoL It does, but the reply was directed at people discussing Tier 3 cruiser balance. All the Tier 2 ones barring the Vexor are considerably inferior to their Tier 3 counterparts, and while Omen does needs a bit of love, it should not match the Maller/Moa/Thorax/Rupture in a slugfest. Originally by: Josh Causto People still fly t1 cruisers? Yes, lol, of course. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Julius Romanus Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.27 17:20:00 - [68] I used to hope jonny jojo would die of aids. But that would require him getting laid, and nice things shouldnt be wished on worthless people. So cancer. Anyway, yes the Thorax fit with SNOWBALL LAUNCHERS is a better ship than the Omen. Everyone knows the Omen is worthless, and the Rax is one of the best designed cruisers in the game. You didnt need to make a thread about it, it's not a revalation. Even zulupark likely knows the omen is not fine, and he cant tell highslots from too much beer.
MenanceWhite Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.27 17:33:00 - [69] Just because of this topic I'm going to lowsec in laser thoraxes when I get the skill up. AWESOME: --- Originally by: Torfi There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses Originally by: Oveur
arbalesttom Caldari Glauxian Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.27 17:37:00 - [70] Originally by: Julius Romanus I used to hope jonny jojo would die of aids. But that would require him getting laid, and nice things shouldnt be wished on worthless people. So cancer. That just goes a bit TOO far dont you think? Even i, Jonny-hater dont say that kind of stuff... *Warning! Sig ahead!* Bounty: Jonny JoJo
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.27 17:41:00 - [71] Originally by: Paulo Damarr Edited by: Paulo Damarr on 27/01/2008 13:02:49 I dont think some people are seeing the point Jonnys trying to make, A conventionally fit Thorax is obviously superior to the laser fit version posted here and that's the issue here, And that superiority is 100% based on an EFT (and comedy fit) DPS number and on comparing a tier 2 to a tier 3 cruiser. The fact that this flawed, flawed argument actually arrives at the right conclusion (aka the Omen sucks) does not justify anything. The fact that Jonny brings up a valid issue is more a case of a thousand monkeys humping a thousand typewriters than anything else. --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
MenanceWhite Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.27 17:48:00 - [72] Originally by: Ogul tier This argument is'nt particulary valid at this point. It's already stated that laser maller is still pretty inferior compared to a laser thorax. --- Originally by: Torfi There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses Originally by: Oveur
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.27 17:53:00 - [73] Originally by: MenanceWhite Originally by: Ogul tier This argument is'nt particulary valid at this point. It's already stated that laser maller is still pretty inferior compared to a laser thorax. And we could make the same argument about sticking the Moa full of heavy neutrons and comparing it to the Maller fitted with the same weapons (and more of it) - guess what, the Maller would come out on top. And THAT wouldn't be a balance issue either. --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
MenanceWhite Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.27 17:58:00 - [74] Originally by: Ogul blaster Maller vs blaster moa Have you even tried? Blaster moa is'nt so incredibly crap as some people think, actually. --- Originally by: Torfi There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses Originally by: Oveur
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.01.27 17:58:00 - [75] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 27/01/2008 17:59:09 Originally by: MenanceWhite Originally by: Ogul tier This argument is'nt particulary valid at this point. It's already stated that laser maller is still pretty inferior compared to a laser thorax. Not really. While laser Thorax DOES do more DPS (464 vs 306) it has doubly less effective HP (10240 vs 19913) with both ships using Navy Multifreq, two heatsink IIs, heavy pulse IIs and 400mm RT plates with the appropriate number of fitting modules. Comedy EFT fits ftw! Also, Maller can fire pernamently. Basically, a laser Thorax WILL die to a laser Maller ;) Yes, of course, the Omen/Maller/Moa (and to a certain extent, Caracal, since it can't fit HAMs sensibly, and Stabber has too few slots to compete with any of these cruisers) need some loving. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.27 18:01:00 - [76] Originally by: MenanceWhite Originally by: Ogul blaster Maller vs blaster moa Have you even tried? Blaster moa is'nt so incredibly crap as some people think, actually. The blaster Maller will still do more dps, which - following the arguments in this thread - makes it the better ship. Period. --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
MenanceWhite Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.27 18:07:00 - [77] Originally by: Ogul The blaster Maller will still do more dps, which - following the arguments in this thread - makes it the better ship. Period. But then the previous posts were about lasers, where thoraxes does'nt get any bonuses. The maller has only a cap reduction bonus for lasers. So they're equal regarding tracking and optimal if they fit the same turrets and crystal(plus thorax has drones). While here, the moa gets slight optimal range bonus (better than nothing). Did you count that in too? --- Originally by: Torfi There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses Originally by: Oveur
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.27 18:38:00 - [78] Edited by: Goumindong on 27/01/2008 18:40:13 Originally by: Ogul Originally by: MenanceWhite Originally by: Ogul blaster Maller vs blaster moa Have you even tried? Blaster moa is'nt so incredibly crap as some people think, actually. The blaster Maller will still do more dps, which - following the arguments in this thread - makes it the better ship. Period. No it will not. The Blaster Moa will do more DPS than a Blaster Maller. A maller does 401 DPS with 5 Heavy Neutron Blasters and 3 MFS[it also runs out of CPU and powergrid and fits literally no tank]. A Moa does 412 dps with 5 heavy electron blasters, 2 Ham launchers, 3 Hobgoblins, and 3 MFS. 412>401. Ergo a blaster moa does more dps than a Blaster Maller. The Moa also has 19,950 EHP, goes 1472m/s, has a web and a scram tanks 31 dps passivly, and its cap lasts for 7 minutes with the MWD off. [Moa, New Setup 1] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Damage Control II Large Shield Extender II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Hobgoblin II x3 A Maller, now looking at a maller that actually fits, cannot use 5 Heavy Neutron Blasters even with AWU 5 without implants[runs out of PG]. A Maller, fit as such still doesnt freaking fit due to CPU, it is 7 CPU short. Is slower, less damaging[376 dps], less versitily, less agility, its cap lasts less time[6 minutes 40 seconds vs 7 minutes 30 seconds], with about 12% more EHP[22.5k EHP vs 19.5k EHP], but remember, this doesnt fit with a web without sacrificing even more DPS, or even more EHP, making the ship worse in every single way imaginable than a Blaster Moa. [Maller, New Setup 1] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Internal Force Field Array I Adaptive Nano Plating II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Faint Warp Prohibitor I [empty med slot] Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M [empty high slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] The Maller is the worst cruiser in the game hands down. The Omen is the second worst cruiser in the game hands down. Johnny Jojo might be an *******, but he is right on this, Amarr cruisers suck. They suck with lasers, they suck without lasers, they just pretty much suck in general. The arbitrator being the one exception, and even then, its not all that great once you get down to brass tacks about it with its only real strength being versitility brought on by its huge drone bay[where it is inferior to a vexor in pretty much all other matters.
Mascia	Posted - 2008.01.27 19:19:00 - [79] Let's compare it to a ship of the same tier, ie the maller [Maller, New Setup 1] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II 800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Adaptive Nano Plating II Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II J5b Phased Prototype Warp Inhibitor I 'Langour' Drive Disruptor I Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M Medium YF-12a Smartbomb Only 246 dps, but the maller has 2k more effective hps, and could have a lot more if set up with more of a tank. It also has a smartbomb which will take care of those nasty drones, not that uncommon a choice since the nos nerf. The maller lasts longer if you just pulse the smartbomb, and it actually gains cap if you turn off the mwd unlike the thorax that is still losing cap. Finally it's worth noting that only Electron's would fit on the thorax with that build, which give it a whopping increase to 424 dps with faction ammo. So basically the Thorax gains nothing by switching to blasters as far as dps is concerned. Could Amarr frigates and cruisers use a little work? Sure, but it's not as bad as some people lead you to believe. Sadly if you switch to autocannons the maller gains dps and does even better with cap: [Maller, New Setup 1] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II 800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Reactor Control Unit II Adaptive Nano Plating II Adaptive Nano Plating II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II J5b Phased Prototype Warp Inhibitor I 'Langour' Drive Disruptor I 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M Medium Plasma Smartbomb II This gives it 4400 more effective hp's than the thorax and 270 dps and it's cap lasts a full minute longer than the thorax if both have the mwd on.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.01.27 19:29:00 - [80] Originally by: Goumindong Amarr cruisers suck. They suck with lasers, they suck without lasers, they just pretty much suck in general. This. Well, OK, barring the Arbitrator, Amarr cruisers quite suck. Especially and particularly the Maller, but the Omen is quite bad as well. I'd sooner have a Omen in gang then a Maller, since at least it can be fit to be more mobile and take advantage of its range (although, really, all Tier 2 combat cruisers except the Vexor aren't very stellar anyway). Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Pan Zhu'Liang	Posted - 2008.01.27 19:32:00 - [81] given that the cost to fly is pretty much the same for a battlecruiser as a tech 1 cruiser (since using decent modules will overshadow ship cost with insurance factored in), i don't think this is such a huge balance issue for the game overall. i'd personally be more interested in seeing tier 1 battlecrusiers other than the brutix be made more useful.
Andreask14 Alterum - Infinitus - Fabula Dragons Of Oceans	Posted - 2008.01.27 19:33:00 - [82] Yes a laser rax is better than a laser anything amarr cruiser. This is not so hot news anymore. To compensate, fit the omen with three webbers.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2008.01.27 19:35:00 - [83] Originally by: Lili Lu Very well stated (Dex's sig also states the general propostion quite well). And to go off on a similar tangent, let's not forget powergrid: I have a gallente alt. That toon has not even begun training awu, but he can fit 7 425 on a hyperion plus a reasonable level 4 mission tank with only one power diagnostic. My amarr toon needed awu3 or 4 to fit 7 tachs and similar tank with one pdu on an abaddon. Speaking from experience, no EFT comparison there. Hybrid equivalent of Tachs would be 500mm rails or something. You should be comparing 425s to Beams. And Beams both outdamage and outtrack Rails. Shooting at Guristas (or Angels) with lasers, now that's silly, but it has little to do with this thread. Whatever problem there is with Amarr, it isn't at the Battleship level, except maybe the prevalence of eanm tanks, which is universal and not a fault of Amarr.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.01.27 19:43:00 - [84] Originally by: Pan Zhu'Liang given that the cost to fly is pretty much the same for a battlecruiser as a tech 1 cruiser (since using decent modules will overshadow ship cost with insurance factored in), i don't think this is such a huge balance issue for the game overall. i'd personally be more interested in seeing tier 1 battlecrusiers other than the brutix be made more useful. It is the best situation if all ships in all classes are useful. Clearly, there will be some which are better and some which are worse, but they have to have performance close to each other; at different things, with different advantages and disadvantages. Take Tier-2 BCs; they're a example of a well-balanced ship class. Currently, in Tier-1 BC comparisons, we have the preety awesome Brutix, then the Cyclone with is preety good (but not really as good as the Brutix; I'm fine with it though, I personally use it), and the Prophecy which is bad and Ferox which is plain horrible. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Malken Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2008.01.27 19:51:00 - [85] where is my amarr oomph that was promised CCP? 2,5 years and counting!
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.27 20:01:00 - [86] Originally by: Malken where is my amarr oomph that was promised CCP? 2,5 years and counting! Its not coming, its like a friggin mirage just like the boost patch. Its just never going to happen. Instead they nerfed nos, bye bye pilgrim and they also nerfed TDs for being overpowered. Idiots. Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation	Posted - 2008.01.27 20:05:00 - [87] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Malken where is my amarr oomph that was promised CCP? 2,5 years and counting! Its not coming, its like a friggin mirage just like the boost patch. Its just never going to happen. Instead they nerfed nos, bye bye pilgrim and they also nerfed TDs for being overpowered. Idiots. I thought oomph was the sound of an Amarr pilot being kicked in the ribs while he's down? -Liang -- If it appears that my typing is lazy, I apologize. My hands/wrists hurt. Consider yourself warned. ^_^
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.27 20:08:00 - [88] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Malken where is my amarr oomph that was promised CCP? 2,5 years and counting! Its not coming, its like a friggin mirage just like the boost patch. Its just never going to happen. Instead they nerfed nos, bye bye pilgrim and they also nerfed TDs for being overpowered. Idiots. I thought oomph was the sound of an Amarr pilot being kicked in the ribs while he's down? -Liang No its the sound of our capacitors hitting 0 cap while using our racial guns Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II
Kel Dario Amarr Blue Sky Inc	Posted - 2008.01.27 20:15:00 - [89] Jonny JoJo may be considered a annoying troll but he do have some points. Hovewer nerfing another races ships to empower Amarr isn't a good idea. Then Caldari, Gallente and Minmatar would have to be nerfed a lot to make Amarr look good, and in the end it would make the game less fun for everyone. Another reason I don't want the other races nerfed is because I fly them myself with other characters. Especially Gallante/Minmatar. They rock /Kel
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.27 20:19:00 - [90] Originally by: Kel Dario Jonny JoJo may be considered a annoying troll but he do have some points. Hovewer nerfing another races ships to empower Amarr isn't a good idea. Then Caldari, Gallente and Minmatar would have to be nerfed a lot to make Amarr look good, and in the end it would make the game less fun for everyone. Another reason I don't want the other races nerfed is because I fly them myself with other characters. Especially Gallante/Minmatar. They rock /Kel Isnt game balance relative? I really dont understand this logic. I mean if one race A does 200 dps and race B does 300 dps and race C does 100 dps. Does it matter if A and B get nerfed down to 100 or if race C and A get boosted up to 300? No it doesnt and obviously ccp has no clue about buffing because oomph hasnt been seen around for 2,5 years but we sure have seen the nerf bat smack gallente in the face twice recently. So yeah what can we do, if not to hope for a nerf atleast... Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.01.27 20:33:00 - [91] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Isnt game balance relative? I really dont understand this logic. I mean if one race A does 200 dps and race B does 300 dps and race C does 100 dps. Does it matter if A and B get nerfed down to 100 or if race C and A get boosted up to 300? No it doesnt and obviously ccp has no clue about buffing because oomph hasnt been seen around for 2,5 years but we sure have seen the nerf bat smack gallente in the face twice recently. So yeah what can we do, if not to hope for a nerf atleast... Breaks balance between classes. Unless you nerf the entire bloody game. It's easier to buff a smaller number of sub-par ships. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.27 20:39:00 - [92] Originally by: Goumindong No it will not. The Blaster Moa will do more DPS than a Blaster Maller. A maller does 401 DPS with 5 Heavy Neutron Blasters and 3 MFS[it also runs out of CPU and powergrid and fits literally no tank]. A Moa does 412 dps with 5 heavy electron blasters, 2 Ham launchers, 3 Hobgoblins, and 3 MFS. ...more stuff about fitting... WTB Moa with 5 turret hardpoints. (Yes, I know it's a typo.) Of course I was comparing apples and oranges (just like the OP), that was the whole point of it. Obviously it's easy to prove me wrong by using completely different fittings... --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
Everyone Dies Caldari Lucky Tampon	Posted - 2008.01.27 20:39:00 - [93] Edited by: Everyone Dies on 27/01/2008 20:39:49 Another problem Laser Deimos vs Zealot [Deimos] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Small Armor Repairer II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Damage Control II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M [empty high slot] Hammerhead II x5 DPS: 468 ----------------------------------------- [Zealot] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Medium Armor Repairer II Armor Thermic Hardener II Adaptive Nano Plating II Internal Force Field Array I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 Faint Warp Prohibitor I Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M [empty high slot] DPS 413 I agree with JoJo, Amarr is screwed don't bother training for them. Gallente FOTM ftl.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.27 20:44:00 - [94] Edited by: Goumindong on 27/01/2008 20:45:18 Originally by: Ogul Originally by: Goumindong No it will not. The Blaster Moa will do more DPS than a Blaster Maller. A maller does 401 DPS with 5 Heavy Neutron Blasters and 3 MFS[it also runs out of CPU and powergrid and fits literally no tank]. A Moa does 412 dps with 5 heavy electron blasters, 2 Ham launchers, 3 Hobgoblins, and 3 MFS. ...more stuff about fitting... WTB Moa with 5 turret hardpoints. (Yes, I know it's a typo.) Of course I was comparing apples and oranges (just like the OP), that was the whole point of it. Obviously it's easy to prove me wrong by using completely different fittings... Actually it was a typo, the numbers are for a 4 turret Moa. edit: The fittings i used are the closest you can get to equivelent between the two. If you use neutrons the maller is just plain worse.
The Djego Minmatar FORTES FORTUNA ADIUVAT CORP. The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.27 20:49:00 - [95] Originally by: Cpt Branko Breaks balance between classes. Unless you nerf the entire bloody game. It's easier to buff a smaller number of sub-par ships. This is 100% true. First in implementation and later in rebalance. Omen and Maller need some love. Besides this Thread is preaty mutch wast of Time I could say the Prophecy do more damage with Aks than the Brutix because of the extra Low Slot. Would this be any point of rebalance ships? I think not. The Thorax only put out more DPS because of its bigger Drone Bay, thats all. Also the Thorax need big gank because it mostly got a small or no Tank. Rebalancing Ships should not be based around nerfing others. Btw Oomph is the sound of a player that got steamrolled by a Amarrship in PVP, because it is impossibly in theory but possilby in praxis. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Jonny JoJo 425 II In PVE? Surely hybrid users use Blaster in PvE.
The Djego Minmatar FORTES FORTUNA ADIUVAT CORP. The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.27 20:56:00 - [96] Edited by: The Djego on 27/01/2008 21:06:20 Originally by: Everyone Dies Edited by: Everyone Dies on 27/01/2008 20:39:49 Another problem Laser Deimos vs Zealot [Deimos] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Small Armor Repairer II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Damage Control II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M [empty high slot] Hammerhead II x5 DPS: 468 ----------------------------------------- [Zealot] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Medium Armor Repairer II Armor Thermic Hardener II Adaptive Nano Plating II Internal Force Field Array I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 Faint Warp Prohibitor I Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M [empty high slot] DPS 413 I agree with JoJo, Amarr is screwed don't bother training for them. Gallente FOTM ftl. EFT ftl... Deimos got a Falloffbonus for Hybrids and Zealot a Optimal Bonus for Laser for a reason. BTW you suck at fitting a Deimos because you not plugging the explosive Hole with a Hardner or a Faction Membrane. Have you even flown Deimos or Zealot in PVP? I think not. Deimos without Nos is preaty mutch a no no because you need all the Cap you can get(stated by someone that used the Deimos before the Grid/Speed boost). On a Zealot it is preaty mutch a eamty slot if you not using a Faction Nos/Neut because you will not enter Web Range. Web on a Zealot is also more or less a wast of Slots, only if you want to counter Ceptors or nano Frigs. Aganist a bigger Ship Zealot never enters Web Range. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Jonny JoJo 425 II In PVE? Surely hybrid users use Blaster in PvE.
master mikester Gallente The Sons of Lucifer Black Sheep Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.27 21:04:00 - [97] again just lol but sorry to burst ur propubescent bubble jojo a)last time i used u couldnt fit 5 turrets on a thorax, only 3 the other 2 are for lyk energy nos's b)the point of your post was c)there's still the ship bonuses d)larn to fly your own nations ships before using another nations ships and then saying that u should cross weapons e)i think u may have gotten ur facts wrong cos my omen could easily take out my m8's thorax with roughly the same skills and lasers so --------------signature------------------------ Those who show profit will pull through in the end. "Those who fear darkness, have never seen what the light can do" selenia- dark angel
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.27 21:07:00 - [98] I think you are missing the point.
Apocryphai Caldari	Posted - 2008.01.27 21:28:00 - [99] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Listen man, I dont play this game to be told by a smart ass prepubecesint on a internet forum that I should do a "50 step retrain" for something that requires predecent knowledge. Nor is it sensible to suggest such a thing. Why did you not retain Amarr when Amarr used to be good? If it was not for people like you, Amarr would never be nerfed in the first place. Er... you have some serious issues JoJo. I suggest professional help ASAP. You do realise that you're taking an internet spaceships game seriously yeah? Think about that for a few minutes, please ________________________________________________________________ Originally by: Victor Valka What the skull-chick said.
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2008.01.27 21:34:00 - [100] Originally by: Mascia Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency M 425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M Autocannon Maller FTW, but you really shouldn't be comparing T1 ammo to faction. Also, FMP has that lovely 20km optimal with scorch...
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation	Posted - 2008.01.27 21:36:00 - [101] Originally by: Goumindong I think you are missing the point. Is the point that Amarrian T1 cruisers suck? Because I thought everyone in Eve knew that... -Liang -- If it appears that my typing is lazy, I apologize. My hands/wrists hurt. Consider yourself warned. ^_^
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.27 21:53:00 - [102] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Goumindong I think you are missing the point. Is the point that Amarrian T1 cruisers suck? Because I thought everyone in Eve knew that... -Liang Apparently ccp doesnt know that because instead of boosting amarr cruisers theyve been nerf bat spanking gallente, boosting caldari and giving fake promises of a boost patch that is going to be a total joke. Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2008.01.27 22:04:00 - [103] It's bloody ridiculous, clearly the Omen & Maller need some work. Why are people even disagreeing with this? The blaster Bloa isn't bad either (Goumindong is right there) but its rubbish at what its supposed to do and still worse than both Gallente combat cruisers. All three ships need work, badly. --------------- you all smell!
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.27 22:09:00 - [104] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Goumindong I think you are missing the point. Is the point that Amarrian T1 cruisers suck? Because I thought everyone in Eve knew that... -Liang Then ignore the thread and it dies, or say "we all know they suck, we get it" and move on.
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar 54th Knights Templar Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2008.01.27 22:11:00 - [105] Edited by: Dromidas Shadowmoon on 27/01/2008 22:13:32 Lol go fit up a laser Stabber and tell me amarr cruisers suck :) Actually, given your skills at using EFT, the tool which has very little relevance on actual ingame combat, I bet you could make the stabber out damage an omen :P There's a reason why its called Eve FITTING Tool and not Eve COMBAT SIMULATOR :) _______________________________________________ Minmatar will always go faster than you, get over it.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation	Posted - 2008.01.27 22:17:00 - [106] Originally by: Goumindong "we all know they suck, we get it" and move on. Which is what I'd done. :p -Liang -- If it appears that my typing is lazy, I apologize. My hands/wrists hurt. Consider yourself warned. ^_^
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.01.28 00:21:00 - [107] Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon Edited by: Dromidas Shadowmoon on 27/01/2008 22:13:32 Lol go fit up a laser Stabber and tell me amarr cruisers suck :) Actually, given your skills at using EFT, the tool which has very little relevance on actual ingame combat, I bet you could make the stabber out damage an omen :P There's a reason why its called Eve FITTING Tool and not Eve COMBAT SIMULATOR :) there is plenty of relevance, its just plenty of times people seem to ignore this relevance. although I don't think a laser stabber proves much of anything although if it does out damage an omen then
marie claude Gallente	Posted - 2008.01.28 00:36:00 - [108] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Thorax should have its drone bay remove to be competitive with other races, as it is way overpowered currently. tisk dont ask for nefs! ask for boosts! nerf hurts play it never (and i MEAN never ) helps game play.FFS!! trinity = EPIC FAIL
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2008.01.28 00:57:00 - [109] Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon Edited by: Dromidas Shadowmoon on 27/01/2008 22:13:32 Lol go fit up a laser Stabber and tell me amarr cruisers suck :) Actually, given your skills at using EFT, the tool which has very little relevance on actual ingame combat, I bet you could make the stabber out damage an omen :P There's a reason why its called Eve FITTING Tool and not Eve COMBAT SIMULATOR :) [Stabber, l4z0rz] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Heavy Pulse Laser II, Dark Blood Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Dark Blood Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Dark Blood Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Dark Blood Multifrequency M Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Torrent Rage Assault Missile Ancillary Current Router I Ancillary Current Router II Ancillary Current Router II Hobgoblin II x1 It out dpses the omen. Totally realistic, too.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.28 01:07:00 - [110] Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon Edited by: Dromidas Shadowmoon on 27/01/2008 22:13:32 Lol go fit up a laser Stabber and tell me amarr cruisers suck :) Actually, given your skills at using EFT, the tool which has very little relevance on actual ingame combat, I bet you could make the stabber out damage an omen :P There's a reason why its called Eve FITTING Tool and not Eve COMBAT SIMULATOR :) Youre not complaining about the stabber are you? Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.01.28 02:29:00 - [111] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 28/01/2008 02:30:21 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Youre not complaining about the stabber are you? I am, autocannon Thorax outdamages it! Sorry, couldn't resist ;) Anyway, the Stabber is nice. It's not so awesome, but it's got its role, which is skirmish warfare and it's good at it. Is it going to actually beat many combat cruisers (counting in Amarr ones as well) which are decently setup? No. It's not the point of the ship anyway. If the Omen didn't have significant fitting problems (and a few other issues), you could use it in a quite similar way (although slower, but harder hitting at its operating range). Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.28 02:30:00 - [112] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Goumindong "we all know they suck, we get it" and move on. Which is what I'd done. :p -Liang Yea, but it wasnt you whom i was addressing.
Processor Failbox	Posted - 2008.01.28 04:01:00 - [113] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 27/01/2008 09:09:52 So far, peoples exceuses are that "Omg Lasers are long Rangezors" But let us discuss the ships and modules in this.... ships and modules forum. People call me a EFT warrior when I dont use EFT, but what the hell, today will be my first day of EFT. But in real practical terms, if someone used a laser thorax, they get the "instant Reload and Omg Range" which some people think make amarr omgPWN. And since the Omwn is impossible to fit, I will use Focused Medium pulse, which is the lowest t2 tier of medium gun, as a omen with 2 guns fitted is a joke. Since Omen needs CPU, I will use a couple of named modules as well on it. Omen: 4 x Focused Pulse/w Amarr MF 10mn MWD II, J5 Proto Scam, Fleeting Web 2 x Heatsink II, 2 x EANM II, Co-Processer II Thorax: 5 x Focused Pulse w/Amarr MF 10mn MWD II, J5 Proto Scam, Fleeting Web 2 x Heatsink II, 2 x EANM II, 1 x 800 Plate 5 x Hammerhead II Omen and Thorax both in same setup, but omen needs CPU mod. Omen needs to drop 2 eamn to fit rcu + plate, which is not effective IMO. Thorax does 422 DPS Omen does 341 DPS Thorax's cap lasts longer with all mods on. Thorax has MORE CAP, MORE CAP RECHARGE, MORE ARMOUR, 2 x the Effective Hitpoints, MORE DPS and outclasses Omen in every single way. Thorax should have its drone bay remove to be competitive with other races, as it is way overpowered currently. Oh great, my sig is nerfed to make it impossible to change. Another Amarr Nerf. :( drop the drones from the dps.....thats like comparing a tech 1 frig to an ishkur lol not to mention you put an MWD on an omen...when the thorax already gets a bonus to mwd....clearly it'll regen more cap a second because of it oh, and btw more armor doesn't mean much since you have no repper on either they will die just as fast anyway anyhow only thing the omen needs is another turret + cpu and/or powergrid
Shereza	Posted - 2008.01.28 04:36:00 - [114] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: LiGhTbUlB PlEaSe Edited by: LiGhTbUlB PlEaSe on 27/01/2008 09:18:09 Did u ever think with all of your hours spent on here moaning about your race (granted some points are good) that maybe for your own wellbeing and stress lvls that another race might be a option? Listen man, I dont play this game to be told by a smart ass prepubecesint on a internet forum that I should do a "50 step retrain" for something that requires predecent knowledge. Nor is it sensible to suggest such a thing. Why did you not retain Amarr when Amarr used to be good? If it was not for people like you, Amarr would never be nerfed in the first place. That response sounds like something a "smart ass prepubecesint" would say, especially one that didn't pay attention in 5th or 6th grade science class when the word "prepubescent" was spelled. Originally by: Jonny JoJo So what you are saying is that fitting lasers on a thorax is as silly as fitting them on Amarr ships. I agree with this which is why Amarr players use projectiles or even blasters since lasers are a joke. No, I'm pretty sure he was saying that putting lasers on a thorax, while effective, just isn't as "smart" as a more conventional thorax fit. I really can't say what Karyuudo Tydraad meant for sure but it didn't read as if he were saying a thing about Amarr ships. Originally by: Jonny JoJo Minmatar got 100% cap reduction bonus to projectiles, and this should be fixed asap Could you please link to the official documentation that states this? I've never seen it listed anywhere, but then I also don't see why they'd need a 100% cap reduction on weapons that have no activation cost. Originally by: Paulo Damarr I dont think some people are seeing the point Jonnys trying to make, A conventionally fit Thorax is obviously superior to the laser fit version posted here and that's the issue here, A Thorax fitted with unbonused weapons from another race not only out damages a ship intended to mount those weapons it does it by a significant degree and to add insult to injury it is more cap efficient than the ship with a cap reduction bonus. The point is valid but I often have problems hearing those points over the waves of wine crashing against the surf. Originally by: Lili Lu Some folks may not like JoJo's methods and delivery, And his either ability to outright ignore valid points and/or calls on him to provide valid data or utter inability to do so. Let's not forget that. I've called him on at least half a dozen points without any sort of response from him, not even one to defend his (poor) stance. Originally by: Kel Dario Then Caldari, Gallente and Minmatar would have to be nerfed a lot to make Amarr look good, and in the end it would make the game less fun for everyone. And then there's the ever so minor fact that there are so many caldari pilots that even the slightest nerf to any of their ships will create an uproar of complaints so loud that it'll shift the Earth's orbit by half a degree. __________ On a more humorous note, tachyphoon FTW. Seriously though, I wish I knew why DPS was the be-all-end-all of 90% of the arguments used by people crying for nerfs. While it might be what kills ships in the end there's more to the game than just DPS. Provide different bonuses, more bonuses, and or other balancing steps rather than simply adjusting DPS and ignoring everything else. Feh, would be nice if some ships had, for example, a 15%/level bonus to active shield or armor resistance mod bonus or even a 10%/level reduction in the effectiveness of cap warfare mods directed against it. ____________________ Behold the universal power of duct tape.
Malken Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2008.01.28 06:32:00 - [115] Originally by: Shereza} [quote=Jonny JoJo Minmatar got 100% cap reduction bonus to projectiles, and this should be fixed asap Could you please link to the official documentation that states this? I've never seen it listed anywhere, but then I also don't see why they'd need a 100% cap reduction on weapons that have no activation cost. with you being a little young you perhaps didnt notice the patch where they gave minmatar guns 0 cap use a while back and thus made minnie guns and missiles 100% cap reduction from what they had before. it is not a bonus on any ship but a flat buff with 100% reduction in cap use for those weapons. while gallente got a slight decrease in capuse in the same patch and amarr was not touched wich ment that they still sucked cap like jojo sucks wine on the parkbench on saturdays.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.01.28 06:37:00 - [116] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: LiGhTbUlB PlEaSe Edited by: LiGhTbUlB PlEaSe on 27/01/2008 09:18:09 Did u ever think with all of your hours spent on here moaning about your race (granted some points are good) that maybe for your own wellbeing and stress lvls that another race might be a option? Listen man, I dont play this game to be told by a smart ass prepubecesint on a internet forum that I should do a "50 step retrain" for something that requires predecent knowledge. Nor is it sensible to suggest such a thing. Why did you not retain Amarr when Amarr used to be good? If it was not for people like you, Amarr would never be nerfed in the first place. I'd have to say that given the fact that you can't seem to find anything redeemable about your choice of ships points you to a single course of action - fly a different race. You may not want to do this, and I completely understand your hesitation but let's face the truth. You want lasers to operate at the effeciency of hybrids and put out the damage of some of the greatest gank ships in the game. Unless CCP can make a laser that doesn't do primarily EM damage, or removes the stacking nerf on weapon upgrades it just isn't going to happen. Given the state of the game today, what you want cannot be easily achieved by your race of ships. Amarr had it's day, and it will have it's day again - until then, make do being underpowered or move into one of the flavor of the month races.
Shereza	Posted - 2008.01.28 07:05:00 - [117] Originally by: Malken Originally by: Shereza Originally by: Jonny JoJo Minmatar got 100% cap reduction bonus to projectiles, and this should be fixed asap Could you please link to the official documentation that states this? I've never seen it listed anywhere, but then I also don't see why they'd need a 100% cap reduction on weapons that have no activation cost. with you being a little young you perhaps didnt notice the patch where they gave minmatar guns 0 cap use a while back and thus made minnie guns and missiles 100% cap reduction from what they had before. it is not a bonus on any ship but a flat buff with 100% reduction in cap use for those weapons. while gallente got a slight decrease in capuse in the same patch and amarr was not touched wich ment that they still sucked cap like jojo sucks wine on the parkbench on saturdays. Be that as it may saying a 100% reduction in projectile weapon activation cost is a far cry from "Minmatar got 100% cap reduction bonus to projectiles." Also, and mind you this is really nitpicking but it's in line with the hair splitting I was doing earlier and I am mostly teasing right now, shouldn't it be that hybrid weapons got a minor cap use reduction and not just gallente ships? I mean after all no gallente ship (currently, that I can think of) has a weapon cap use bonus and caldari ships use hybrid weapons too. Either way you slice it no matter what it was originally as it stands now, and expecially to the new players, the "cap use bonus" of projectile guns is just the way things are, no bonus at all, and if you're going to talk about it you probably should also bring up missiles too. I won't insist on requiring people bringing projectiles into amarr/beam whines to also mention drones in addition to missiles but, to be honest, I think it would do them good to include yet a third weapon system for a third non-Amarr race that is often a primary or tied-for-primary weapon system that does not use cap. After all, wouldn't bringing in projectile/minmatar weapons, missile/caldari weapons, and drones/gallente weapons just go to further prove their point that CCP hates Amarr ships by virtue of the fact that every other race has ships with (bonused) primary weapon systems that do not use cap? ____________________ Behold the universal power of duct tape.
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2008.01.28 07:13:00 - [118] Halle-*******-luyah they locked Johnny JoJo's sigs, now if they would gag him for life we could maybe sleep at night without worrying that Johnny is gonna highjack our threads into some kind of "OMG AMARR SUX" thread. I mean god, i've seen persistance, but you missed the line by about.. 50k AU? Welcome to EvE
Jack Jombardo Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.28 07:32:00 - [119] Arbitrator: cheapest T1 Amarr Cruiser and not in line with the other Amarr ships Maller: T1 tank-cruiser Omen: T1 DPS-cruiser If Tank-Cruiser outdamages DPS-Cruiser and the cheapest, non in line Cruiser outclasses both ... makes me wonder. If now other races ships with laser outclasses all laser-race ships fittet with lasers ... makes me wonder. Problem of Laser? Don't know, sounds more of a design problem from Omen/Maller to me.
Hugh Ruka Caldari Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.01.28 09:58:00 - [120] Let's see. We have here an Omen: 5% ROF bonus with 4 turrets = 4 * 1.33 = 5.32 turret total, then we have a thorax with 5 unbonused lasers. So the thorax just by design leads by 0.32 turret DPS and you count in the drones also. And you complain about Thorax DPS being better thant Omen DPS ? ARE YOU SANE ??? I mean how can you cry when you do such a biased comparison ? Wake up and have a look at the ships !!! Just use simple math on the turret hardpoint number with bonuses applied AND FACTOR IN THE DRONEBAY DIFFERENCE !!!! (I did some EFT comparing. you can use an AB and Heavy Pulse II, there's anough range for this to work). Originally by: Aravel Thon Originally by: Nith Batoxxx Hi my alt just leanred to fly the ferox............... I am so so terribly sorry...
Shevar Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2008.01.28 10:15:00 - [121] As much as I hate the OP poster, it doesn't change the fact that he is claiming in this thread. Basicly said amarr t1 cruisers suck. --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
August Personage Caldari Clarf Inc	Posted - 2008.01.28 11:22:00 - [122] Originally by: Shevar Basicly said amarr t1 cruisers suck. apart from the arb
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.28 12:50:00 - [123] Originally by: Hugh Ruka Let's see. We have here an Omen: 5% ROF bonus with 4 turrets = 4 * 1.33 = 5.32 turret total, then we have a thorax with 5 unbonused lasers. So the thorax just by design leads by 0.32 turret DPS and you count in the drones also. And you complain about Thorax DPS being better thant Omen DPS ? ARE YOU SANE ??? I mean how can you cry when you do such a biased comparison ? Wake up and have a look at the ships !!! Just use simple math on the turret hardpoint number with bonuses applied AND FACTOR IN THE DRONEBAY DIFFERENCE !!!! (I did some EFT comparing. you can use an AB and Heavy Pulse II, there's anough range for this to work). The point is that an amarr player might have trained up T2 lasers and then can only train up gallente cruiser for 2 days and get into a thorax and do more damage then in an omen. Thats fail. Omen is a piece of crap and so is the maller and other ships. Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II
Shevar Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2008.01.28 13:03:00 - [124] Originally by: August Personage Originally by: Shevar Basicly said amarr t1 cruisers suck. apart from the arb The arb isn't total fail like the omen or maller, but quite frankly it doesn't fit in the top4 cruisers in my opinion. -Thorax -Vexor -Rupture -Blackbird Are all better for PvP in my opinion. --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.28 13:05:00 - [125] Originally by: Hugh Ruka Let's see. We have here an Omen: 5% ROF bonus with 4 turrets = 4 * 1.33 = 5.32 turret total, then we have a thorax with 5 unbonused lasers. So the thorax just by design leads by 0.32 turret DPS and you count in the drones also. And you complain about Thorax DPS being better thant Omen DPS ? ARE YOU SANE ??? I mean how can you cry when you do such a biased comparison ? Wake up and have a look at the ships !!! Just use simple math on the turret hardpoint number with bonuses applied AND FACTOR IN THE DRONEBAY DIFFERENCE !!!! (I did some EFT comparing. you can use an AB and Heavy Pulse II, there's anough range for this to work). Are you ********? Since drones dont matter in comparisons according to you, all gallente ships should have 0 m3 drone bay and all amarr ships should get 5000000 m3 and bandwidth. I think it would be balanced because drones dont matter obviously.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.01.28 13:05:00 - [126] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 28/01/2008 13:08:05 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer The point is that an amarr player might have trained up T2 lasers and then can only train up gallente cruiser for 2 days and get into a thorax and do more damage then in an omen. Thats fail. You are fail. Quoted numbers are all L5. All L5 in a Thorax involves: Scout Drone OP V Drones V Drone interfacing V Gallente drone spec V ...etc... to get the DPS listed. It is hardly two days. Drones V takes 5-6 days. If you train the Thorax for 2 days and jump in it (and you already have T2 lasers), you're going to fail in comparison really. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.28 13:08:00 - [127] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Lyria Skydancer The point is that an amarr player might have trained up T2 lasers and then can only train up gallente cruiser for 2 days and get into a thorax and do more damage then in an omen. Thats fail. You are fail. Quoted numbers are all L5. All L5 in a Thorax involves: Scout Drone OP V Drones V Drone interfacing V ...etc... to get the DPS listed. So what? I have scout drone op 5, drone 5, DI 5, combat drone op 5, drone spec 4, and I bet lots and lots of people in eve does as well. If you want to start using imperfect skills, then how about the fact that cruiser 5 matters a helluva lot more for the omen than it does for the thorax?
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.28 13:13:00 - [128] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 28/01/2008 13:08:05 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer The point is that an amarr player might have trained up T2 lasers and then can only train up gallente cruiser for 2 days and get into a thorax and do more damage then in an omen. Thats fail. You are fail. Quoted numbers are all L5. All L5 in a Thorax involves: Scout Drone OP V Drones V Drone interfacing V Gallente drone spec V ...etc... to get the DPS listed. It is hardly two days. Drones V takes 5-6 days. If you train the Thorax for 2 days and jump in it (and you already have T2 lasers), you're going to fail in comparison really. Uhm you dont need all lvl 5 to be out dps'ing an omen in a thorax...in fact you can look at this any way you like and there is nothing the omen will do better. Let me get this straight. Youre saying that a new amarr player that has T2 mediums and basic drone skills that go with that will do more damage in an omen then in a laser thorax? Is this what youre saying? Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.01.28 13:13:00 - [129] Originally by: Gamesguy So what? I have scout drone op 5, drone 5, DI 5, combat drone op 5, drone spec 4, and I bet lots and lots of people in eve does as well. Yes, but Lyria said specifically it's 'oh, train Rax for two days, jump in, do better', which is simply untrue. Originally by: Gamesguy If you want to start using imperfect skills, then how about the fact that cruiser 5 matters a helluva lot more for the omen than it does for the thorax? Well, true. I find the Thorax deals with low skills much better then other cruisers. I honestly consider the Rupture a somewhat better ship at high skills (T2 guns with spec IV, high gunnery support skills, cruiser at at least IV) then the Thorax - it simply benefits much more from the Cruiser skill due to having a double damage bonus. At lower skills though, the Thorax is definitely better. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.28 13:19:00 - [130] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Gamesguy So what? I have scout drone op 5, drone 5, DI 5, combat drone op 5, drone spec 4, and I bet lots and lots of people in eve does as well. Yes, but Lyria said specifically it's 'oh, train Rax for two days, jump in, do better', which is simply untrue. Yes but amarr needs drone skills as well. Arbitrator is a drone cruiser, all the amarr BS and espcially BC as well as their t2 lineup have heavy drone focus. Geddon only shines due to the 5 heavy drones, same goes for the harbinger(meds), and obviously there are the amarr drone recons, etc. Amarr is the 2nd drone race, its reasonable to expect good drone skills. And its not like hybrid takes more SP than lasers or something, so for a similar amount of SP, a gallente and amarr character would have equal gunnery and drone skills.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.01.28 13:31:00 - [131] Originally by: Gamesguy Yes but amarr needs drone skills as well. Arbitrator is a drone cruiser, all the amarr BS and espcially BC as well as their t2 lineup have heavy drone focus. Geddon only shines due to the 5 heavy drones, same goes for the harbinger(meds), and obviously there are the amarr drone recons, etc. Admittedly, all races need drone skills ;) However, many will spec in their T2 primary weapon system/gunnery before they get drone skills, and Amarr turret cruisers plus the Prophecy (in short, Amarr bad ships) do not require drone skills that much. Since I believe Lyria was making a point about a relatively new Amarr pilot who has T2 lasers jumping in a Rax in two days, the point is relatively valid. If you have good drone and all around skills, you can jump in a Arbitrator anyway and do better then jumping in a laser-rax (lol!). Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
I Believe DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.28 13:40:00 - [132] Jonny is either the most insistent troll or one of the worst mentally challenged people I've ever seen, don't know which, don't really care. Remember people, don't feed the trolls.
Kastar Paragon Horizons Intergalactic Brotherhood	Posted - 2008.01.28 14:03:00 - [133] Edited by: Kastar on 28/01/2008 14:02:56 I find this a very difficult discussion. The omen isn't the same tier cruiser as the thorax, so evidently the dmg output of the rax is or should be higher. Whether that ought to be with the same type of guns or not is a point I'm not starting at. As for the Maller being not on par with the rax ... well what can I say. Even when the rax could wield 5 heavy drones, a lot of people flew a maller. It's all a bout flavours and personal taste. People fly this or that, regardless of the capabilities. I'm amarr to the bone. Hell I won't fly a rax even if it outdamages a maller 3:1. why ? very simple. the occasion in which you'd encounter a rax in a maller in a pvp setting with no other ships around is close to inexistant. You could as well fly a pink bicycle with a US flag to it. It wouldn't make a difference. even if all ships become on par... some would still be slightly stronger, after which people will still whine. That being said... I'm so gonna try a thorax with lasers :) -----------------------------------------------
Bronson Hughes Knights of the Wild	Posted - 2008.01.28 14:14:00 - [134] All of this discussion has been focusing on the DPS of Amarr cruisers and a laser-fitted Thorax but we seem to be forgetting something. How do the tanks on Amarr cruisers compare to said laser-fitted Thorax? The Maller's 5% armor resists per level probably help it out compared to the Thorax; my gut says that Amarr would make better buffer tanks (assuming that they have enough grid for plates, which they may not) while Gallente would be able to field better active tanks (less cap issues), but having not flown Amarr cruisers I don't know. Hence, the question. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
Dark Solaris	Posted - 2008.01.28 14:17:00 - [135] "The Gallenteans are not alone in their Federation, whose boundaries are home to pockets of residents, varying in size and representing all the other races of EVE, most of whom left their own empires due to political or ideological differences, or simply in search of peace and prosperity. In addition to these there are two human races, the Intakis and the Mannars, both of whom the Gallenteans found while exploring and expanding their empire. Both were at a very primitive level when the Gallenteans found them, but since coming under the protection and guidance of the Gallenteans, both races have flourished and are today a full-fledged members of the Federation." - Gallentean History Archives "In recent years, however, the Amarrians have begun to run into serious opposition. First, they met the Gallente Federation. Although much smaller than the Amarr Empire, the Amarrians soon found the economic and military might of the Gallenteans a match for their own... Since these fateful events almost two centuries ago, the Amarrians have learned restraint. They have slowed down their expansion and are less forceful in their dealings with other races, but still view themselves as the most powerful race in EVE, if only because of their sheer numbers." - Amarrian History Archives Just read and think and you will know the answer for all the above questions. If you complain that Amarr is weak, so play Gallente. Otherwise, just accept the fact and keep going. Maybe a change in history course will make it different. Anyway, your ship is not the only factor that makes you strong.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.28 14:35:00 - [136] Originally by: Bronson Hughes All of this discussion has been focusing on the DPS of Amarr cruisers and a laser-fitted Thorax but we seem to be forgetting something. How do the tanks on Amarr cruisers compare to said laser-fitted Thorax? The Maller's 5% armor resists per level probably help it out compared to the Thorax; my gut says that Amarr would make better buffer tanks (assuming that they have enough grid for plates, which they may not) while Gallente would be able to field better active tanks (less cap issues), but having not flown Amarr cruisers I don't know. Hence, the question. Tanks on cruisers are meh. Most cruisers except the maller will do poof under fire anyway and the original post was complaining about how bad the omen sucked. How about you compare tank with omen k? Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II
Wu Jiun	Posted - 2008.01.28 14:41:00 - [137] Omen is of course a horrible cruiser. On the other hand if you decide to fly one then don't fit it in such a crappy way! Here are some setups which outperform your setup. 4 x focused med t2, 1 x assault missile launcher named mwd, x5 web, 20km scram 800mm RT, dcu2, adaptive nano plating 2, small rep 2, heat sink 2 Theoretical max of 313 dps with faction ammo and waaay better tank. You can also ditch the rep and fit another heatsink to still have better tank + more dmg than your setup. And if you're gonna fit a suicidal omen then how about: 4 x heavy pulse, arbalest rocket launcher mwd, x5 web, named sb rcu 2, 400mm RT, dcu2, 2 x hs 2 Fits with cheap cpu imp. Otherwise downgrade dcu to named one or ditch the launcher. 401 dps with faction ammo and guess what? STILL better tank than your setup. And this only took 5minutes. So either you're trying to make omen look even worse than it is (hardly possible but still...) or you just don't have a clue how to fit ships.
Commander Awkward	Posted - 2008.01.28 14:43:00 - [138] Originally by: I Believe Jonny is either the most insistent troll or one of the worst mentally challenged people I've ever seen, don't know which, don't really care. Remember people, don't feed the trolls. In defense of our friend Jonny; he stopped posting somewhere in page 2. After that all the other forum warriors rushed in to scavenge their piece of this thread before it decayes too much.
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2008.01.28 14:59:00 - [139] Originally by: Gamesguy all gallente ships should have 0 m3 drone bay Even if Gallente ships suddenly lost their drone bays over night they would still be some of the most powerful ships in the game, like I said before they took already decent ships and then added humongous drone bays on them.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.01.28 15:02:00 - [140] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Tanks on cruisers are meh. Most cruisers except the maller will do poof under fire anyway and the original post was complaining about how bad the omen sucked. How about you compare tank with omen k? Yeah. Because Tier 2 to Tier 3 cruiser comparisons are valid. The Thorax outdamages my Stabber when using autocannons on both, too! You have to look at sensible fits you would use in PvP and compare them, taking into account flying styles and playing to the ship's advantages. If we just do a EFT number crunch, the Stabber is quite certainly the worst crusier in the entire game, and we all know it's not that bad, but you cannot fly it like a Thorax/Rupture/Maller/Moa/Vexor and expect to live. Exageratting to prove your point doesn't make you right, it makes you a troll. Do the Omen/Maller have issues? Yes, I think we all realise they do have some issues. Are they as horrible as you make them? No. Should the Omen murder a Thorax in the Thorax's optimal? Definitely not. It shouldn't, in fact, even stand much of a chance versus it. Why? To illustrate, let's dig up another cruiser which is inferior to the Thorax when both are using its racial guns - namely, the Stabber. It is in the same EFT situation (lol!) as the Omen, since the AC Thorax outdamages it. Therefore, EFT say it must suck and needs a boost. Now, ignoring EFT arguments for a moment and assuming it was massively boosted (because of EFT says so jerks), think of the awesome ownage a Stabber would be in real PvP if it actually had a chance versus a Thorax at close-range and retained its current abilities? It would be the prime PvP cruiser, bar none. To fly anything except a Stabber boosted to that standard would be sheer idiocy. If we balance out the raw EFT DPS/tank numbers, we completely break ships like the Thorax which need their superiority at point-blank range. Trolling ships & modules with 'omg, lazorz Thorax does better' is neither constructive nor convincing, because people could counter-troll that, well, 'omg, AK Thorax does better then my Stabber, waaa' and prove it in EFT. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
PeacefullNub	Posted - 2008.01.28 15:29:00 - [141] Stabber has speed - omen pilots could only dream of 3,5 km/s. And eft shows speed btw If for example omen has stabber bonus to speed instead of laser cap usage? If thorax has blaster cap reduction bonus instead of mwd cap reduction? Or if maller has 50mb brandwich? Anyway - here is amarr thread.
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2008.01.28 15:37:00 - [142] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Tanks on cruisers are meh. Most cruisers except the maller will do poof under fire anyway and the original post was complaining about how bad the omen sucked. How about you compare tank with omen k? Yeah. Because Tier 2 to Tier 3 cruiser comparisons are valid. The Thorax outdamages my Stabber when using autocannons on both, too! You have to look at sensible fits you would use in PvP and compare them, taking into account flying styles and playing to the ship's advantages. If we just do a EFT number crunch, the Stabber is quite certainly the worst crusier in the entire game, and we all know it's not that bad, but you cannot fly it like a Thorax/Rupture/Maller/Moa/Vexor and expect to live. Exageratting to prove your point doesn't make you right, it makes you a troll. Do the Omen/Maller have issues? Yes, I think we all realise they do have some issues. Are they as horrible as you make them? No. Should the Omen murder a Thorax in the Thorax's optimal? Definitely not. It shouldn't, in fact, even stand much of a chance versus it. Why? To illustrate, let's dig up another cruiser which is inferior to the Thorax when both are using its racial guns - namely, the Stabber. It is in the same EFT situation (lol!) as the Omen, since the AC Thorax outdamages it. Therefore, EFT say it must suck and needs a boost. Now, ignoring EFT arguments for a moment and assuming it was massively boosted (because of EFT says so jerks), think of the awesome ownage a Stabber would be in real PvP if it actually had a chance versus a Thorax at close-range and retained its current abilities? It would be the prime PvP cruiser, bar none. To fly anything except a Stabber boosted to that standard would be sheer idiocy. If we balance out the raw EFT DPS/tank numbers, we completely break ships like the Thorax which need their superiority at point-blank range. Trolling ships & modules with 'omg, lazorz Thorax does better' is neither constructive nor convincing, because people could counter-troll that, well, 'omg, AK Thorax does better then my Stabber, waaa' and prove it in EFT. my god you managed to post all that and still fail to see the real point here, the issue is not about which EFT fits are the best its about how you can completely lol fit certain ships and still have the potential to outclass the ships that are completely crap. If you fit those lol fit ships properly the situation is even worse.
Gold Rogers Solitude Empires United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.28 16:07:00 - [143] Hardly a fair comparison since the Omen has a 15m3 drone bay and 1 launcher hardpoint which Jonny JoJo failed to mention. And please don't say he's only comparing laser damage since he gave the Thorax it's drones. ---------
Wu Jiun	Posted - 2008.01.28 16:15:00 - [144] Originally by: Gold Rogers Hardly a fair comparison since the Omen has a 15m3 drone bay and 1 launcher hardpoint which Jonny JoJo failed to mention. And please don't say he's only comparing laser damage since he gave the Thorax it's drones. He included the 3 x hobgoblin on the dps for the omen. I checked that. He ignored the launcher slot though and also went to some lengths to make the omen look extra-crappy i.e. by not fitting a 800mm plate and purposely wasting cpu etc. etc. See my post a few above this one.
master mikester Gallente The Sons of Lucifer Black Sheep Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.28 16:59:00 - [145] anyone noticed that jonny hasnt replied to defend his very very very (very) low level of pride take into account the ship bonuses people! oh btw jonny, used right any ship can beat any ship also in response to...i cant remember who, "make lasers do not mostly em damage" or something, im not going against you or anything but i would have thought that lasers would do more thermal damage? i mean it would make sense but... maybe jonny posts these to get attention...but he gets it in a bad way cos these posts get like the most replies --------------signature------------------------ Those who show profit will pull through in the end. "Those who fear darkness, have never seen what the light can do" selenia- dark angel
nihlanth	Posted - 2008.01.28 17:00:00 - [146] Amarr T1 cruisers just need a little more grid and CPU. As of now, in a Maller, you will either be: 1. Moderate Tackler with moderate tank, NEUT, moderate mwd speed, low-moderate dps (needs one photonic cpu enhancer). or: 2. BEST cruiser tanker with some sniping ability (moderate dps for sniping), but no tackling. (Hence the AB fitting and may need a RCU) It depends on what role you want it to be, it has the best unplated tank and an excellent battle-cruiser class plated tank. As for the omen, it definately needs more grid/cpu. As of now, if you sneeze on it, it will die, and it has crappy dps and 2nd best speed. So it has no advantages. The maller is just barely acceptable because it is capable of being a tackler with a good enough tank to last a little bit longer for your gangmates to gank the target (ok dps with Quad light beams II). Im able to wipe the floor with any stabber in my maller in the tackling setup. Because of the lack of grid and cpu, you cant put ALL T2 items on your setup. For instance, if you fit T2 quad light beams you can only fit a T1 nuet and you may need a Photonic CPU if you use 2 EANM II and 2 HS II's. But, if you use t1 beams and t1 eanm and t1 burner/or mwd, you may be able to fit a heavy plate instead . This makes things less expensive anyways... so meh...if you die, the enemies will be very dissapointed with their loot!
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.28 17:46:00 - [147] Originally by: Commander Awkward In defense of our friend Jonny; he stopped posting somewhere in page 2. After that all the other forum warriors rushed in to scavenge their piece of this thread before it decayes too much. If there was a way to find out I would be willing to bet he took another less than voluntary vacation from the forums. --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
Kadoes Khan	Posted - 2008.01.28 18:16:00 - [148] Quote: Yeah. Because Tier 2 to Tier 3 cruiser comparisons are valid. When comparing the same "type" of ships, I believe it is valid. Omen is Amarr's DPS cruiser, while Thorax is the same on Gallente end. If you're saying that no tier 2 ship should ever outclass a tier 3 ship even when the tier 3 ship has a complete lol fit then I think there is something wrong with you. There are other cases of tier 2 being better than tier 3 at specific elements. Take a look at geddon vs abaddon, geddon does more damage and it's a tier 1 battleship compared to abaddon's tier 3, by you're reasoning such a thing shouldn't be allowed. In this case I think it's not so much a laser issue but a failure in design for the cruisers. The omen lacks appropriate fitting to even be able to get a decent fit with focused pulses. It should be able to fit a full rack of them without issues, maybe struggling a bit to fit heavy pulses. It needs that launcher slot turned into another turret and it's bonus changed from RoF to damage, I realise that means less damage boost but it saves a good deal of cap and with only 3 meds not being able to field a injector this is important. Not so sure on the maller. -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity."
Moe Zus Caldari Resource Reallocators Incorporated	Posted - 2008.01.28 18:47:00 - [149] Theres only one reason to fly Amarr, and that is for the lulz. Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Pan Crastus Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.28 19:01:00 - [150] Originally by: Jonny JoJo [...] Valid complaint in some ways, but the Omen isn't supposed to be a DPS machine while the Thorax is. I think most of the problems with such comparisons come from the fact that Drone DPS on non-Droneships is too high. It makes no sense to add 100-150 DPS on most T1 Cruisers with the Drone bay, Drones were supposed to be useful for fighting smaller opponents and not to buff up DPS by 20-30%. Fix: reduce Drone DPS by 50% and increase the Droneship DPS bonus to 20% per level. EVE Online: a cold, cruel world where (RL-)rich people replace their losses with GTCs sold to poor students who need to farm ISK to afford their play time ...
Ashira Twilight	Posted - 2008.01.28 19:04:00 - [151] Originally by: Pan Crastus Originally by: Jonny JoJo [...] Valid complaint in some ways, but the Omen isn't supposed to be a DPS machine while the Thorax is. I think most of the problems with such comparisons come from the fact that Drone DPS on non-Droneships is too high. It makes no sense to add 100-150 DPS on most T1 Cruisers with the Drone bay, Drones were supposed to be useful for fighting smaller opponents and not to buff up DPS by 20-30%. Fix: reduce Drone DPS by 50% and increase the Droneship DPS bonus to 20% per level. If the omen isn't meant to be a dps ship, then what is it made for? ---------------------------------------
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.28 19:08:00 - [152] Edited by: Goumindong on 28/01/2008 19:16:16 Originally by: Wu Jiun Edited by: Wu Jiun on 28/01/2008 16:17:34 Originally by: Gold Rogers Hardly a fair comparison since the Omen has a 15m3 drone bay and 1 launcher hardpoint which Jonny JoJo failed to mention. And please don't say he's only comparing laser damage since he gave the Thorax it's drones. He included the 3 x hobgoblin on the dps for the omen. I checked that. He ignored the launcher slot though and also went to some lengths to make the omen look extra-crappy i.e. by not fitting a 800mm plate and purposely wasting cpu etc. etc. See my post a few above this one. Edit: Of course launcher slot or not the omen is a joke of a cruiser. I just don't think this is related to the thorax or how it performs with lasers specifically. That is because those modules will not fit on an Omen when set with heavy pulses. And you cant put a hml and 800mm on an Omen with AWU 5. Its one or the other. edit: Also teiring is stupid, but then i suppose we should reduce the number of drones on the vexor to 15 or 20 cubes in order to make it inline with the Omen? Ships need to be balanced by their roles and not their teirs. The stabber is good because its a great tackler and is very fast. The Rupture and Thorax and Vexor are different types of DPS cruisers. The Moa has a boat load of hit points and good agility with decent dps, it is also the best anti-support cruiser with the caracal, which has supplimentary ewar. Their teir has nothing to do with how good they are.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.28 19:34:00 - [153] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Tanks on cruisers are meh. Most cruisers except the maller will do poof under fire anyway and the original post was complaining about how bad the omen sucked. How about you compare tank with omen k? Yeah. Because Tier 2 to Tier 3 cruiser comparisons are valid. The Thorax outdamages my Stabber when using autocannons on both, too! You have to look at sensible fits you would use in PvP and compare them, taking into account flying styles and playing to the ship's advantages. If we just do a EFT number crunch, the Stabber is quite certainly the worst crusier in the entire game, and we all know it's not that bad, but you cannot fly it like a Thorax/Rupture/Maller/Moa/Vexor and expect to live. Exageratting to prove your point doesn't make you right, it makes you a troll. Do the Omen/Maller have issues? Yes, I think we all realise they do have some issues. Are they as horrible as you make them? No. Should the Omen murder a Thorax in the Thorax's optimal? Definitely not. It shouldn't, in fact, even stand much of a chance versus it. Why? To illustrate, let's dig up another cruiser which is inferior to the Thorax when both are using its racial guns - namely, the Stabber. It is in the same EFT situation (lol!) as the Omen, since the AC Thorax outdamages it. Therefore, EFT say it must suck and needs a boost. Now, ignoring EFT arguments for a moment and assuming it was massively boosted (because of EFT says so jerks), think of the awesome ownage a Stabber would be in real PvP if it actually had a chance versus a Thorax at close-range and retained its current abilities? It would be the prime PvP cruiser, bar none. To fly anything except a Stabber boosted to that standard would be sheer idiocy. If we balance out the raw EFT DPS/tank numbers, we completely break ships like the Thorax which need their superiority at point-blank range. Trolling ships & modules with 'omg, lazorz Thorax does better' is neither constructive nor convincing, because people could counter-troll that, well, 'omg, AK Thorax does better then my Stabber, waaa' and prove it in EFT. Uhm ok... 1. Omen is a gank cruiser like the thorax. Stabber is NOT a gank cruiser. 2. Yes they are almost as horrible as people make em out to be. Compare them to cruisers like thorax and rupture and stabber they fail by redicilous amounts. 3. This has nothing to do with fighting styles. Omen and maller are utter crap. 4. No, omen shouldnt destroy thorax in thorax optimal but it should destroy a thorax outside that optimal. 5. Why do you even bother to try to go against people that are complaining about the amarr ships? You know they are right, you know these ships suck, you even say so yourself. Why just not say, yes the do suck.....The point in this thread is that our gank cruiser gets outdamaged by a thorax fitting our racial guns. Thats wrong in so many ways and if you cant see why thats wrong Im not even sure youre playing this game at all. Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II
Corwain Gallente Down In Flames	Posted - 2008.01.28 19:58:00 - [154] Quite a few of the proponents of this thread say that Omen is a gank ship, then whining that it has no gank. I can much more easily set the Omen up for tank than gank. The Maller just tanks BETTER. Don't pick a primarily tank race then ***** that the damage sucks! 4x Medium Pulse Laser II, 1x Arbalest Assault (I also used undersized weapons on Thorax until I maxed my fitting skills, but it could only fit a 1600mm and a SAR II and only did a bit more damage at much less range than this Omen) 10MN AB or MWD, Faint Warp prihibitor, x5 web MAR II, 2x EANM II, 1x DC II, 1600mm plate So about 200dps, 7200 hp with great resists. Almost 30k effective hp. Might not compare to a Maller tank, but it's probly only outclassed by some Ruppie tanks and the Ruppie is touted as being the best T1 combat flavor cruiser bar none. --
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.28 20:15:00 - [155] Originally by: Corwain Quite a few of the proponents of this thread say that Omen is a gank ship, then whining that it has no gank. I can much more easily set the Omen up for tank than gank. The Maller just tanks BETTER. Don't pick a primarily tank race then ***** that the damage sucks! 4x Medium Pulse Laser II, 1x Arbalest Assault (I also used undersized weapons on Thorax until I maxed my fitting skills, but it could only fit a 1600mm and a SAR II and only did a bit more damage at much less range than this Omen) 10MN AB or MWD, Faint Warp prihibitor, x5 web MAR II, 2x EANM II, 1x DC II, 1600mm plate So about 200dps, 7200 hp with great resists. Almost 30k effective hp. Might not compare to a Maller tank, but it's probly only outclassed by some Ruppie tanks and the Ruppie is touted as being the best T1 combat flavor cruiser bar none. Wait, so amarr should have 2 tank cruisers? Also let me add, one of them tanking worse then a ruppie? We are the tanking race? Umm passive shield tanks get redicilous tanks. Vulture? Drake? Oh also, lets remove the gank from geddon and abaddon to get them inline with omen so we can have 3 tank BS's after all we should have a gank ship in any class. OMEN IS A GANK SHIP AND JUST BECAUSE ITS BROKEN AND CAN BE FITTED EASIER BY TANKING DOESNT MEAN ITS NOT BROKEN. btw, you make good vids corwain Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.28 20:33:00 - [156] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 28/01/2008 20:34:48 Dear god... I can't believe I'm posting in a thread agreeing with Goumindong again. The tier system is broken. Using the tier system to justify making the Omen a useless ship is completely, utterly broken. Tiers might have been relevant back in the good old days when having Cruiser III was actually something to brag about, instead of a trivial few-hours wait after getting Cruiser II. It might have been relevant when a cruiser of any kind was a major investment, and saving up for the more expensive tier-III would have been a difficult task. But now, the price difference is trivial, especially compared to the difference between a cruiser of any kind and a battlecruiser. The fundamental problem is the Omen has no role. At anything less than Cruiser V, the Maller out-damages it AND out-tanks it. And even at Cruiser V, where you move on to a Zealot anyway, the Omen barely does more damage. The ROF bonus is completely redundant thanks to the Maller's 5th turret, granting effectively the same damage while leaving a slot free for the resist bonus. Just to add insult to injury, the Omen is crippled with impossible fitting issues, while the Maller gets enough grid to fit Heavy Pulse IIs to the Omen's FMP IIs AND a 6th low slot. So really, there is no choice for Amarr players. If you want a tank cruiser, you buy a Maller. If you want a gank cruiser, you buy a Maller. If you want to invent Zealots, you buy an Omen.
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.28 21:44:00 - [157] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Wait, so amarr should have 2 tank cruisers? Also let me add, one of them tanking worse then a ruppie? We are the tanking race? Umm passive shield tanks get redicilous tanks. Vulture? Drake? Oh also, lets remove the gank from geddon and abaddon to get them inline with omen so we can have 3 tank BS's after all we should have a gank ship in any class. I really think you are not making your point if you complain about having 2 tank cruisers in the same post as you mention Caldari battlecruisers (which are indeed both "tank" ones and lacking a gank one)... --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2008.01.28 22:55:00 - [158] OP made me die inside. I remember flying an Omen once. Spent alot of time and isk getting something to fit with best named T1 gear. Came across a hostile basic t1 fitted thorax. It walked through me like I was nothing. I barely got through its shields by the time I popped. ok ok, omen is t2, thorax is t3, and t3 > t2. My basic problem is gallente t2 > amarr t3. tiering is mostly at fault for that tho. Originally by: Meridius Dex I could actually fit a Thorax WITH LASERS and get better DPS, better speed, better tank and - wait for it - better better cap stability
Wu Jiun	Posted - 2008.01.28 22:58:00 - [159] Originally by: Goumindong That is because those modules will not fit on an Omen when set with heavy pulses. I know that as you can see from my other post further above. But i refered to the focused medium pulse build in the op so that argument isn't valid. And if you fit only focused meds there is no reason not to fit an 800mm and an assault launcher which was kinda the point of my post. Omen is crap yes. But again if i fly one i am going to fit it as good as possible. And a cpu upgrade is not needed for fitting an omen neither with focused or heavy pulses. And there is no need to leave over 200pg and a launcher slot unused but waste your cpu for 2 x eanm instead of more reasonable tank configurations. Just look at the omen fittings he proposed and compare them to the ones i gave above. Not saying mine are perfect but they are way better than the ops and at least don't make the ship look even worse than it is.
Darth Kenzie Amarr Ganja Labs Pure.	Posted - 2008.01.28 23:48:00 - [160] This may have been mentioned already and I'm way too lazy/disinterested to find out, but umm how much of that dmg difference is due to the fact that the Thorax can field 5x med tec2 drones? Ulitimatly the only semivalid point would be if he could prove the Thorax was a superior pure laser platform to then the Omen. Also Omen is a fine ship... if you lined all the cruisers up I'm pretty sure it would rank middle of the road. Thorax is best pvp cruiser in the game and a higher tier. Thorax is fine. Omen is fine. I fly amarr, stop the whine. ------- Even my barge has kills...
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.01.28 23:57:00 - [161] Originally by: Ogul I really think you are not making your point if you complain about having 2 tank cruisers in the same post as you mention Caldari battlecruisers (which are indeed both "tank" ones and lacking a gank one)... Caldari having two tank BCs is entirely different, since Caldari ships aren't divided along the tank/gank line. Even though both the Drake and Ferox are more tanking oriented (though really, the Ferox is an untanked sniper), they still are completely different ships. One is missile ship, one is a railboat, and they use completely different strategies and setups. On the other hand, Amarr ships ARE divided by tank and gank. All of them use the same lasers with the exact same setups and strategies. And in the case of the Amarr cruisers, the Maller does both jobs better, leaving no role for the Omen.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.29 00:00:00 - [162] Originally by: Darth Kenzie This may have been mentioned already and I'm way too lazy/disinterested to find out, but umm how much of that dmg difference is due to the fact that the Thorax can field 5x med tec2 drones? Ulitimatly the only semivalid point would be if he could prove the Thorax was a superior pure laser platform to then the Omen. Also Omen is a fine ship... if you lined all the cruisers up I'm pretty sure it would rank middle of the road. Thorax is best pvp cruiser in the game and a higher tier. Thorax is fine. Omen is fine. I fly amarr, stop the whine. Bull**, omen is the worst cruiser in the game. It has terrible fitting issues, it has less gank than other race's tanking/sniping ships(bmoa outdps it). Tier arguments are completely and utterly ******. I demand the megathron be nerfed in dps because it outdamages the abaddon, which is a higher tier. While we're at it, nerf the brutix as well since it outdps the harbinger, which is also higher tier. Nerf the vexor as well, since it is a lower tier than the maller and yet far outdps it. People using the tier argument are dishonest and only using it to justify a complete imbalance in the t1 cruiser lineup between amarr/caldari vs gallente/minmatar. I fly all 4 races between 3 alts, and the gallente one is by far the easiest one to fly and the most useful, especially at the battleship level.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.29 02:32:00 - [163] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 29/01/2008 02:33:02 Originally by: Darth Kenzie Also Omen is a fine ship... if you lined all the cruisers up I'm pretty sure it would rank middle of the road. Thorax is best pvp cruiser in the game and a higher tier. Omen is fine. I fly amarr, stop the whine. Ive never wanted anything this much but I really really want to have whatever this guy is smoking. Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II
Ivan Kinsikor Amarr International Multi-Player Consortium Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.29 03:01:00 - [164] While the Thorax LOOKS like a giant ***, the only thing the Omen is good for IS as a giant ***. It really is one of the worst cruisers in the game. Its fit sucks, its dps sucks, and it basically does nothing well. In conclusion, nerf Amarr. Killing is business and business is good.
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation	Posted - 2008.01.29 03:17:00 - [165] Originally by: Gamesguy Bull****, omen is the worst cruiser in the game. While I don't disagree that the Omen is in dire need of help, consider the Bellicose and T1 "logistics" cruisers (specifically the and Scythe and Augoror). -Liang -- If it appears that my typing is lazy, I apologize. My hands/wrists hurt. Consider yourself warned. ^_^
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.01.29 03:21:00 - [166] yea the omen is a fantastic cruiser, when going up against an untanked caracel
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.29 03:33:00 - [167] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Gamesguy Bull****, omen is the worst cruiser in the game. While I don't disagree that the Omen is in dire need of help, consider the Bellicose and T1 "logistics" cruisers (specifically the and Scythe and Augoror). -Liang Scythe is a mining cruiser, would you call a covetor terrible because it sucks as pvp? Bellicose is actually excellente gang support, target painting is very useful vs nanoships, its just that people usually bring a huginn/rapier instead. Augror suffers from the same problem, people just bring a guardian instead.
Blutreiter Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.01.29 11:19:00 - [168] Originally by: Shevar Originally by: August Personage Originally by: Shevar Basicly said amarr t1 cruisers suck. apart from the arb The arb isn't total fail like the omen or maller, but quite frankly it doesn't fit in the top4 cruisers in my opinion. -Thorax -Vexor -Rupture -Blackbird Are all better for PvP in my opinion. Agreed. CCP made it worse when they nerfed the Arbitrators bandwidth from 75m^3 down to 50m^3. Plus the introduction of scripts for the Tracking Disruptors (ew in general yeah). Double hit for the Arbitrator, previously one of the top cruisers. Cogito ergo boom - I think i'll blow sht up* Originally by: CCP Explorer I know we have said this before, but this time we really mean itÖ
MITSUK0	Posted - 2008.01.29 11:35:00 - [169] EFT jockeys will be the death of EVE. Also on topic. Yes the omen sucks, yes the maller sucks. They are probably the only amarr ships that need serious help. The arbitrator is pwn though. In Before EFT Setups to "prove" me wrong.
Blutreiter Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.01.29 12:12:00 - [170] Originally by: MITSUK0 EFT jockeys will be the death of EVE. Also on topic. Yes the omen sucks, yes the maller sucks. They are probably the only amarr ships that need serious help. The arbitrator is pwn though. In Before EFT Setups to "prove" me wrong. Haha no need to prove that Arbi is good. Just not as good as bevore Revelations. It's decent. Cogito ergo boom - I think i'll blow sht up* Originally by: CCP Explorer I know we have said this before, but this time we really mean itÖ
Pinky Denmark The Cursed Navy	Posted - 2008.01.29 13:02:00 - [171] Isn't the Omen more like a tackler/dps cruiser as the Stabber is? (not saying it's better or even good at it though - it's the fastest amarr cruiser?) Btw: Arbitrator is IMO a cool combination of tackler/dps/EW even if it can "only" throw in 5 Medium drones. Isn't the role distribution more like -> (yes, ccp still have work to do) So in order from tier 1,2,2 and 3: Am: tank/logi, ew/drone(dps+), tackler(:P), combat Min: mining/logi, ew(:P), tackler, combat Gal: mining/logi, ew, drone(dps), combat(dps) Cal: mining/logi, ew, missile(dps), hybrid(tank) - I'm a nice guy!! But hook me up with some pew pew, because I'm really bored...
Perry Amarr The X-Trading Company Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.01.29 13:26:00 - [172] Originally by: Pinky Denmark (yes, ccp still have work to do) So in order from tier 1,2,2 and 3: Am: tank/logi, ew/drone(dps+), tackler(:P), combat Min: mining/logi, ew(:P), tackler, combat Gal: mining/logi, ew, drone(dps), combat(dps) Cal: mining/logi, ew, missile(dps), hybrid(tank) No, its more like this: A: support / mix / fail /fail M: mining / ew / speed / combat G: mining / ew / drone / combat C: support / ew / missle / sniper
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.29 13:36:00 - [173] Originally by: Perry Originally by: Pinky Denmark (yes, ccp still have work to do) So in order from tier 1,2,2 and 3: Am: tank/logi, ew/drone(dps+), tackler(:P), combat Min: mining/logi, ew(:P), tackler, combat Gal: mining/logi, ew, drone(dps), combat(dps) Cal: mining/logi, ew, missile(dps), hybrid(tank) No, its more like this: A: support / mix / fail /fail M: mining / ew / speed / combat G: mining / ew / drone / combat C: support / ew / missle / sniper You hit the nail there. Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.01.29 13:39:00 - [174] Originally by: Perry No, its more like this: A: support / mix / fail /fail M: mining / ew / speed / combat G: mining / ew / drone / combat C: support / ew / missle / sniper No, it's more like this: A: support / drone-combat / tackler (bad) / rubbish M: mining / comedy ship / tackler / combat G: mining / mostly rubbish / drone-combat / combat C: support(and mining) / EW / mostly rubbish / sniper Yes, gallente have the most valid combat cruisers (although, after the damp nerf, the Celestis is quite bad really), and Amarr have the most problematic ships. Caldari have the only real EW cruiser but have no real toe to toe combat cruisers to speak of (Caracal would be fine if there was a way to actually, you know, fit HAMs + MWD + LSE II on it with AWU). The Bellicose is only really good for comedy setups (or torp raven/typhoon support post-patch if there's a significant number of those and nobody can spare a mid for PWNAGE). Saying target painting is good EW is just Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Bronson Hughes Knights of the Wild	Posted - 2008.01.29 14:16:00 - [175] Originally by: Cpt Branko Saying target painting is good EW is just [offtopic] I've never really considered Target Painters to be EWar. I've always looked at them as something akin to targeted Tracking Computers that help missiles and guns hit better. That's why I've always been a little curious as to why dedicated target painting ships are considered EWar platforms, but dedicated tracking link ships are considered logistics platforms. [/offtopic] Uh, crap, I don't have anything on topic.... -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
Perry Amarr The X-Trading Company Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.01.29 14:28:00 - [176] Edited by: Perry on 29/01/2008 14:28:48 One way to define roles for Omen and Maller would be to stress their current ones more: Omenwould get a 25m¦ Dronebay to fend of tacklers, more Grid and CPU to fit Heavy Pulses more easely, and the cap reduction bonus gets swapped with a tracking or optimal bonus, not sure. Im with tracking here, better for T2 Pulses, they hit 20km well but would need more tracking against nanofags. The Launcher gets removed, Heavy Pulses do enough damage ^^ Utility High stays for nos or remote rep, but grid has to be balanced carefully. I would like a fitting similar to this (with awu5): Hi: 4x Heavy Pulse II (Scorch) - 1x Medium Nos II Me: 1x 10mn Afterburner II - Stasis Webbifier II - Warp Disruptor II Lo: 800mm Plate - Damage Control II - Tracking Enhancer II - 2x Heat Sink II Dr: 5x Small Drone -> 340dps (260 from Guns, 80 from Warriors) -> 26km range, nice tracking -> 622m/s in gang -> 5k armor, 16,6k effective hp -> good ship This Ship would need 1293 grid, but only has 913. I therefure suggest to boost Omens grid from 730 to 1035. This sounds reasonable for an amarrian dps mashine. Furthermore, this fitting would need 357cpu with a named plate, so we round up to 360cpu. This sounds about right, Thorax has 375. So we up Omens cpu from 250 to 288. Remove cpu if you think named equipment should be bought if one wants a very good fitting, like fleeting web and... wait. Thats it. ^^ Remember, this ship tops out at 340dps, Thorax tops out at what? 600?
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2008.01.29 14:38:00 - [177] Originally by: Perry Originally by: Pinky Denmark (yes, ccp still have work to do) So in order from tier 1,2,2 and 3: Am: tank/logi, ew/drone(dps+), tackler(:P), combat Min: mining/logi, ew(:P), tackler, combat Gal: mining/logi, ew, drone(dps), combat(dps) Cal: mining/logi, ew, missile(dps), hybrid(tank) No, its more like this: A: support / mix / fail /fail M: mining / ew / speed / combat G: mining / ew / drone / combat C: support / ew / missle / sniper Its more like this, A: support / mix / fail /fail M: mining / ew / speed / combat G: mining / ew / drone / combat C: support / ew / missle / fail The Moa is messed up and almost totally useless, except for a blaster setup which many other ships do much better although the Moas tank isnt to shabby.
Praxis1452 The Bastards	Posted - 2008.01.29 15:48:00 - [178] Originally by: Perry Edited by: Perry on 29/01/2008 14:28:48 One way to define roles for Omen and Maller would be to stress their current ones more: Omenwould get a 25m¦ Dronebay to fend of tacklers, more Grid and CPU to fit Heavy Pulses more easely, and the cap reduction bonus gets swapped with a tracking or optimal bonus, not sure. Im with tracking here, better for T2 Pulses, they hit 20km well but would need more tracking against nanofags. The Launcher gets removed, Heavy Pulses do enough damage ^^ Utility High stays for nos or remote rep, but grid has to be balanced carefully. I would like a fitting similar to this (with awu5): Hi: 4x Heavy Pulse II (Scorch) - 1x Medium Nos II Me: 1x 10mn Afterburner II - Stasis Webbifier II - Warp Disruptor II Lo: 800mm Plate - Damage Control II - Tracking Enhancer II - 2x Heat Sink II Dr: 5x Small Drone -> 340dps (260 from Guns, 80 from Warriors) -> 26km range, nice tracking -> 622m/s in gang -> 5k armor, 16,6k effective hp -> good ship This Ship would need 1293 grid, but only has 913. I therefure suggest to boost Omens grid from 730 to 1035. This sounds reasonable for an amarrian dps mashine. Furthermore, this fitting would need 357cpu with a named plate, so we round up to 360cpu. This sounds about right, Thorax has 375. So we up Omens cpu from 250 to 288. Remove cpu if you think named equipment should be bought if one wants a very good fitting, like fleeting web and... wait. Thats it. ^^ Remember, this ship tops out at 340dps, Thorax tops out at what? 600? Vexor tops out at around 700dps with mwd fit. Can get a bit more if you drop it and also with only 3 magstab's. ôHe who must expend his life to prolong life cannot enjoy it, and he who is still seeking for his life does not have it and can as little enjoy it.ö
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.01.29 17:20:00 - [179] Originally by: Paulo Damarr Pyramid of a bunch of people dogging on the Moa and Bellicose The Bellicose is a decent cruiser. Faster than a rupture with more non-tracking based DPS and the meds required to sustain it. Its not a common ship, but its not bad, if it had a bit more fitting it would be superb for a tech 1 cruiser. The Moa is the best cruiser for anti-support work. It also makes a fairly decent blaster boat, especially with the recent agility buff. I mean, its not perfect, but its not bad either.
Julius Romanus Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.29 20:02:00 - [180] Edited by: Julius Romanus on 29/01/2008 20:02:44 If anyone would like to duel their rax against my omen. I'll be on tomorrow night after 10pm eastern. It's a free kill afterall.
BlackHorizon Caldari Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.01.29 20:17:00 - [181] Edited by: BlackHorizon on 29/01/2008 20:17:02 This topic and the op are stupid. The Omen could use a bit of fitting love, but the comparison to a thorax is invalid. Not only the op's omen fit stupid, the op's assertion that thorax outclasses the omen in every single way is false.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.30 02:35:00 - [182] Originally by: BlackHorizon Edited by: BlackHorizon on 29/01/2008 20:17:36 This topic and the op are stupid. The Omen could use a bit of fitting love, but the comparison to a thorax is invalid. Not only is the op's omen setup stupid, the op's assertion that thorax outclasses the omen in every single way is false. Damien is turning in his grave. Fix omen. Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.01.30 04:50:00 - [183] Originally by: Julius Romanus Edited by: Julius Romanus on 29/01/2008 20:02:44 If anyone would like to duel their rax against my omen. I'll be on tomorrow night after 10pm eastern. It's a free kill afterall. give me a few days to train gallente frig to 4 and crusier to 3, as well as medium hybrid to 3
Julius Romanus Amarr	Posted - 2008.01.30 05:42:00 - [184] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Julius Romanus Edited by: Julius Romanus on 29/01/2008 20:02:44 If anyone would like to duel their rax against my omen. I'll be on tomorrow night after 10pm eastern. It's a free kill afterall. give me a few days to train gallente frig to 4 and crusier to 3, as well as medium hybrid to 3 You got it. Drop me an eve mail when is good for you.
Varrakk Phantom Squad Insurgency	Posted - 2008.01.30 12:08:00 - [185] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: Bazman Your 624dps Vexor will die when sneezed at in that setup. Extreme firepower generally goes with an extreme lack of defense, at least until you approach BC/BS sized ships. What Amarr lack in frigates and cruisers, they more than make up for in HAC's/Recons and Battleships. Change the record and go whine about Minmatar battleships or something. This is thread about how useless Amarr is. Minmatar got 100% cap reduction bonus to projectiles, and this should be fixed asap Removed. Navigator Sure minmatar doesnt have cap use on their weapons. Instead they compensate with short optimal and long falloff significantly reducing their damage output and increased misses. You cant only compare the drawback stats on amarr ships and modules when you have to look at the overall picture.
Inertial Blood Reavers	Posted - 2008.01.30 13:30:00 - [186] Here is some food for thought. Maller Armour: 34 587 HP Thorax Armour: 16 225 HP Yeah... the Maller totally sucks... Both these fits were made with T2 Guns, T2 MWD, Langour Webs, Fain Scrambler. The maller was even fitting a Co Processor. The Thorax didn't have enough grid to fit a 1600 plate without sacrificing two resistance mods for RCU's. I may be very wrong of course, but the Maller got a AWESOME tank, almost as good as my non rigged drake with alts skills, wich are admittedly not that good. I am far from a awesome EFT warrior tough, and I am sure that someone can come up with a better tank than my Thorax.
Shevar Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2008.01.30 13:42:00 - [187] Originally by: Inertial Here is some food for thought. Maller Armour: 34 587 HP Thorax Armour: 16 225 HP Yeah... the Maller totally sucks... Both these fits were made with T2 Guns, T2 MWD, Langour Webs, Fain Scrambler. The maller was even fitting a Co Processor. The Thorax didn't have enough grid to fit a 1600 plate without sacrificing two resistance mods for RCU's. I may be very wrong of course, but the Maller got a AWESOME tank, almost as good as my non rigged drake with alts skills, wich are admittedly not that good. I am far from a awesome EFT warrior tough, and I am sure that someone can come up with a better tank than my Thorax. Didn't you incidently fit small tech2 weapons? I can't seem to get a full rack of t2 med guns (focussed medium pulses, comparable to medium electron blasters), mwd and 1600 plate without running out of PG. Not to mention you need 6 rolled tungstens to reach the 30+k ammount of armor, which isn't really possible to fit. --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Amira Shadowsong Caldari	Posted - 2008.01.30 13:51:00 - [188] Originally by: Inertial Here is some food for thought. Maller Armour: 34 587 HP Thorax Armour: 16 225 HP Yeah... the Maller totally sucks... Both these fits were made with T2 Guns, T2 MWD, Langour Webs, Fain Scrambler. The maller was even fitting a Co Processor. The Thorax didn't have enough grid to fit a 1600 plate without sacrificing two resistance mods for RCU's. I may be very wrong of course, but the Maller got a AWESOME tank, almost as good as my non rigged drake with alts skills, wich are admittedly not that good. I am far from a awesome EFT warrior tough, and I am sure that someone can come up with a better tank than my Thorax. Its fun to make stuff up.
Hie Loe Gallente Intergalactic Science LLC	Posted - 2008.01.30 17:30:00 - [189] Originally by: mama guru DO NOT. NERF. GALLENTE. Boost Amarr, thats the way to go. If anything, gallente should be the role model for "balance" This. Why make Gallente worse to make the other races better? I fly Gallente ships, I like Gallente ships, I've already had to deal with drone bandwidth and scripts. I have no problem whatsoever with the dev's making the Omen a better ship. They are cool looking, and I have a BPO I don't use because no one buys them. Same with all the other crap ships nobody seems to fly: the Ferox, the Scorpion, the Procurer, whatever. Make them better, but not by in comparison making other ships worse. This is a game, it's supposed to be fun. Why make things people have trained for worse for "balance?" Insteadm make the other stuff better. That way everybody has more fun. HL I want a better signature.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.30 20:46:00 - [190] Originally by: Hie Loe Originally by: mama guru DO NOT. NERF. GALLENTE. Boost Amarr, thats the way to go. If anything, gallente should be the role model for "balance" This. Why make Gallente worse to make the other races better? I fly Gallente ships, I like Gallente ships, I've already had to deal with drone bandwidth and scripts. I have no problem whatsoever with the dev's making the Omen a better ship. They are cool looking, and I have a BPO I don't use because no one buys them. Same with all the other crap ships nobody seems to fly: the Ferox, the Scorpion, the Procurer, whatever. Make them better, but not by in comparison making other ships worse. This is a game, it's supposed to be fun. Why make things people have trained for worse for "balance?" Insteadm make the other stuff better. That way everybody has more fun. HL Because ccp doesnt own a boost-bat. So we are left to hope for the nerf-bat only. Dont blame us, blame ccp. Oh yeah, youre gonna say "but there is a boost patch coming, ccp said so": BS, its not coming. Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II
L70Rogue	Posted - 2008.01.30 22:16:00 - [191] Originally by: Hie Loe Originally by: mama guru DO NOT. NERF. GALLENTE. Boost Amarr, thats the way to go. If anything, gallente should be the role model for "balance" This. Why make Gallente worse to make the other races better? I fly Gallente ships, I like Gallente ships, I've already had to deal with drone bandwidth and scripts. I have no problem whatsoever with the dev's making the Omen a better ship. They are cool looking, and I have a BPO I don't use because no one buys them. Same with all the other crap ships nobody seems to fly: the Ferox, the Scorpion, the Procurer, whatever. Make them better, but not by in comparison making other ships worse. This is a game, it's supposed to be fun. Why make things people have trained for worse for "balance?" Insteadm make the other stuff better. That way everybody has more fun. HL Just because you've trained gallente and like to pilot gallente ships doesn't mean they don't need a nerf.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.30 22:18:00 - [192] Originally by: L70Rogue Just because you've trained gallente and like to pilot gallente ships doesn't mean they don't need a nerf. LOL Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II
Re Mi Caldari Funshine Unlimited	Posted - 2008.01.30 22:53:00 - [193] Amarr cruisers are supposed to be weak on guns, huge on tank. An Augorer for example has a 10% per level armor bonus. Its part of the Amarr racial setup. Amarr is about HUGE grand, impressive, scary BS tank. They are about standing there and taking punishment. As a result, you might expect their cruisers to be a bit worse. That is the trade off, speed and DPS for armor. Amarr BS however are among the best in the game. If you want to take down a capital ship or tank station guns to take down a cyno jammer, you fly Amarr. If you want to zip around near a gate and tackle people you fly Minmatar. If you want to warp to zero and pound someone you fly gallente. I could go on and on. You pick the tool to fit the job. Funshine Unlimited - An Industrial Services Corporation
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.01.30 23:10:00 - [194] Originally by: Re Mi Amarr cruisers are supposed to be weak on guns, huge on tank. An Augorer for example has a 10% per level armor bonus. Its part of the Amarr racial setup. Amarr is about HUGE grand, impressive, scary BS tank. They are about standing there and taking punishment. As a result, you might expect their cruisers to be a bit worse. That is the trade off, speed and DPS for armor. Amarr BS however are among the best in the game. If you want to take down a capital ship or tank station guns to take down a cyno jammer, you fly Amarr. If you want to zip around near a gate and tackle people you fly Minmatar. If you want to warp to zero and pound someone you fly gallente. I could go on and on. You pick the tool to fit the job. Thats bull****. Every race's BS can tank as well as Amarr BS. And no, if you want to kill a capital you bring dps, which is gallente/caldari. If you want to kill a cyno jammer you bring as many snipers as you can get your hands on, not amarr snipers that cap out in 3 minutes of firing. If you want to tank station guns you bring a hyperion, or a mega, or any ship that can run a rep. I hear the drake is popular for this as well. Amarr does not tank significantly better than other races. Amarr was also supposed to be the big gun race, because tanking is not a role. Tanking gets you laughed at like the passive tanked drakes because you're worthless.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.30 23:17:00 - [195] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Re Mi Amarr cruisers are supposed to be weak on guns, huge on tank. An Augorer for example has a 10% per level armor bonus. Its part of the Amarr racial setup. Amarr is about HUGE grand, impressive, scary BS tank. They are about standing there and taking punishment. As a result, you might expect their cruisers to be a bit worse. That is the trade off, speed and DPS for armor. Amarr BS however are among the best in the game. If you want to take down a capital ship or tank station guns to take down a cyno jammer, you fly Amarr. If you want to zip around near a gate and tackle people you fly Minmatar. If you want to warp to zero and pound someone you fly gallente. I could go on and on. You pick the tool to fit the job. Thats bull****. Every race's BS can tank as well as Amarr BS. And no, if you want to kill a capital you bring dps, which is gallente/caldari. If you want to kill a cyno jammer you bring as many snipers as you can get your hands on, not amarr snipers that cap out in 3 minutes of firing. If you want to tank station guns you bring a hyperion, or a mega, or any ship that can run a rep. I hear the drake is popular for this as well. Amarr does not tank significantly better than other races. Amarr was also supposed to be the big gun race, because tanking is not a role. Tanking gets you laughed at like the passive tanked drakes because you're worthless. QFT. I wanted to comment this but I got nothing more to add. Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards	Posted - 2008.01.30 23:45:00 - [196] Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 30/01/2008 23:46:24 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Hie Loe Originally by: mama guru DO NOT. NERF. GALLENTE. Boost Amarr, thats the way to go. If anything, gallente should be the role model for "balance" This. Why make Gallente worse to make the other races better? I fly Gallente ships, I like Gallente ships, I've already had to deal with drone bandwidth and scripts. I have no problem whatsoever with the dev's making the Omen a better ship. They are cool looking, and I have a BPO I don't use because no one buys them. Same with all the other crap ships nobody seems to fly: the Ferox, the Scorpion, the Procurer, whatever. Make them better, but not by in comparison making other ships worse. This is a game, it's supposed to be fun. Why make things people have trained for worse for "balance?" Insteadm make the other stuff better. That way everybody has more fun. HL Because ccp doesnt own a boost-bat. So we are left to hope for the nerf-bat only. Dont blame us, blame ccp. Oh yeah, youre gonna say "but there is a boost patch coming, ccp said so": BS, its not coming. Exactly. Sorry guys, but untill CCP do Amarr boost - I am going to post about broken issues on other races until every race gets fixed to be balanced with Amarr. Sorry, but eve is a game where every race needs to be competitive, as 100% equal balance is impossible and will never happen. Amarr are noware near competitive, and CCP are not going to boost Amarr, so the only alternative left is to nerf other races to be balanced and competitive with Amarr. If the 3 legged horse enters the grand national as a "favorate", then damm right every other 4 legged horse is going to get a leg nerfed to keep it competitive. Sig locked, lack of Eve content
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.30 23:55:00 - [197] Originally by: Jonny JoJo If the 3 legged horse enters the grand national as a "favorate", then damm right every other 4 legged horse is going to get a leg nerfed to keep it competitive. Hah, priceless analogy. Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II
Polkageist	Posted - 2008.01.31 00:24:00 - [198] nice vids lyria. My friend is gonna start as amarr tomorrow if he doest change his mind before that :) i guess these 2 vids will be good to encurage him. When will the retribution and personal crusade be available?
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.01.31 00:56:00 - [199] Originally by: Polkageist nice vids lyria. My friend is gonna start as amarr tomorrow if he doest change his mind before that :) i guess these 2 vids will be good to encurage him. When will the retribution and personal crusade be available? Thanks and yeah we have some good ships and Im glad to hear that ccp has decided to start fixing our race as of today. Your friend will prolly have fun as amarr if he likes the combat footage in the movies. 3rd part soon available, its basically finished but im sad because I didnt get any sentinel footage because of various ship movement issues. So its in limbo waiting for that rendering process. ps. maybe wrong thread to discuss this in heh Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2008.01.31 01:03:00 - [200] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 31/01/2008 01:07:36 Originally by: Jonny JoJo I will troll until CCP fixes me. Fixed it for you Furthermore, people who want 75% ships in the game nerfed instead of 25% fixed are being awesomely stupid. I don't care if you can whine 'onoz, ccp won't fix it, they only nerf' all day, you're still being awesomely stupid Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Praxis1452 The Bastards	Posted - 2008.01.31 01:11:00 - [201] 1v1 I'd say that the maller has a decent shot against the thorax. It can just have soooo many hp. Omen is a different story though... Anyway the EM/EXP nerf is not really gonna help amarr. It's not broken. It never was. The way T2 resists stack on minnie ships is broken. Hell the armor resist changes boost minmatar moreso than amarr, cause it's not like amarr ever fights another amarrian ship... and minmatar get EM & EXP dmg as their highest damage ammo. ôHe who must expend his life to prolong life cannot enjoy it, and he who is still seeking for his life does not have it and can as little enjoy it.ö
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2008.01.31 01:26:00 - [202] Originally by: Praxis1452 Anyway the EM/EXP nerf is not really gonna help amarr. It's not broken. It never was. The way T2 resists stack on minnie ships is broken. Hell the armor resist changes boost minmatar moreso than amarr, cause it's not like amarr ever fights another amarrian ship... and minmatar get EM & EXP dmg as their highest damage ammo. Please stop spreading this misconception. Even if we ignore the prevalence of armor tanking ships and the range limitations that only loading high damage ammo would impose, EMP has its damage split across three damage types. Of the "buff" to these damage types, two of them have had resistances on completely different kinds of tanks lowered, so against a single ship you can expect the difference in your effective dps to only marginally increase by a fixed % to a single of these damage types whereas Amarr high damage ammunition is not only focused across two damage types, the primary type of which receives the same % increase in efficiency, but is already the most effective weapon system against the type of tank it is not being buffed against. So while EMP may have been given a slight buff, lasers benefit far more from this alteration.
Hie Loe Gallente Intergalactic Science LLC	Posted - 2008.01.31 04:41:00 - [203] Originally by: L70Rogue Just because you've trained gallente and like to pilot gallente ships doesn't mean they don't need a nerf. Define "need" please? Why should anything in this game be made worse? Tell me why making other ships better is not a superior solution. To the Amarr, I'm on your side. Boost the living crap out of them, knock yourself out, I'm all for it. I wouldn't even mind if they ended up a little better than Gallente ships, then the prices I have to pay would drop. ;) Nerfing is no fun. No one likes it when it happens to you, and if you get your schadenfreude jollies from it happening to others then I recommend therapy. No more nerfs, just boosts. HL I want a better signature.
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2008.01.31 04:53:00 - [204] Originally by: Hie Loe Originally by: L70Rogue Just because you've trained gallente and like to pilot gallente ships doesn't mean they don't need a nerf. Define "need" please? Why should anything in this game be made worse? Tell me why making other ships better is not a superior solution. To the Amarr, I'm on your side. Boost the living crap out of them, knock yourself out, I'm all for it. I wouldn't even mind if they ended up a little better than Gallente ships, then the prices I have to pay would drop. ;) Nerfing is no fun. No one likes it when it happens to you, and if you get your schadenfreude jollies from it happening to others then I recommend therapy. No more nerfs, just boosts. HL Because if, say, ship A is overpowered in its size class, and they determine they're going to buff other ships, they need to buff every single ship in its class for every race, but now this class is out of line with the rest of the ships, so then those need to be buffed up to par. Then the rats need to be buffed. Then the structures, and drones, and on and on. Then maybe everything is dealing too much damage, so hp for every single entity in the game needs to be buffed. It's a huge amount of work, and the implications of a buff that far reaching are difficult to determine in advance. Maybe increasing a certain attribute across the board unfairly benefited a certain race, and everyone else needs to be buffed again. It just goes on and on. Or they can nerf one ship and be done.
Shevar Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2008.01.31 10:16:00 - [205] Originally by: Re Mi Amarr cruisers are supposed to be weak on guns, huge on tank. An Augorer for example has a 10% per level armor bonus. Its part of the Amarr racial setup. Amarr is about HUGE grand, impressive, scary BS tank. They are about standing there and taking punishment. As a result, you might expect their cruisers to be a bit worse. That is the trade off, speed and DPS for armor. Amarr BS however are among the best in the game. If you want to take down a capital ship or tank station guns to take down a cyno jammer, you fly Amarr. If you want to zip around near a gate and tackle people you fly Minmatar. If you want to warp to zero and pound someone you fly gallente. I could go on and on. You pick the tool to fit the job. So if a ship has a bad design it's fine because it was intended? Also which battleships have this "great" tanking ability you speak of? Amarr tanks are among the worst there are due to the fact we can't even fire our guns on the base cap recharge let alone run a rep. Our hitpoint tank snipers got crap tanks because we need tachs to be somewhat efficient with sniping and thus don't have enough PG to fit a MWD, injector and plates like for example the mega with 425's. --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards	Posted - 2008.01.31 10:51:00 - [206] Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 31/01/2008 10:52:36 Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Jonny JoJo Have them both fight each other all mods flaring. Did you realise how to turn off MWD in EFT yet? Yes I do. Laser users need to keep range, and they will fire a mwd burst or two to get in range. You are aware how to calculate maths of cap after 1-2 mwd bursts to see who has most cap left to fight? I dont use eft at all, other than for this single example, and since you cannot admit your failure to comprehend the amarr problem, it is easier to say "mwd EFT Lolzzers" insted of actually thinking about why Amarr are broken. Sig locked, lack of Eve content
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2008.01.31 11:07:00 - [207] Originally by: Jonny JoJo My EFT warfare is correct! Oneeleven! Yarr! Amarr haz issues! Undock and play the game instead of EFT At any rate, how do you fit your little omen? Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.01.31 11:14:00 - [208] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer ps. maybe wrong thread to discuss this in heh Probably, but it has already been derailed from a laser-thorax to a general Amarr thread anyway. So let me take this opportunity to say "nice videos" as well, especially because of the pre-nerf nightwish songs. --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
Shevar Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2008.01.31 11:15:00 - [209] Edited by: Shevar on 31/01/2008 11:15:30 Anyways the most efficient omen fitting in my opinion; 4x t2 focussed medium pulses MWD 7.5km scrambler cap booster kinetic/explosive harderer pdu adaptive nano plating med repper 3x hobgoblins It will do a whopping 226 DPS with an optimal of 6.8 km... And isn't possible to fit without using ONLY named items (outside the t2 guns). If you got a better suggestion for fitting let me know. --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Kadoes Khan	Posted - 2008.01.31 19:29:00 - [210] Originally by: Re Mi Amarr cruisers are supposed to be weak on guns, huge on tank. An Augorer for example has a 10% per level armor bonus. Its part of the Amarr racial setup. Amarr is about HUGE grand, impressive, scary BS tank. They are about standing there and taking punishment. As a result, you might expect their cruisers to be a bit worse. That is the trade off, speed and DPS for armor. Amarr BS however are among the best in the game. If you want to take down a capital ship or tank station guns to take down a cyno jammer, you fly Amarr. If you want to zip around near a gate and tackle people you fly Minmatar. If you want to warp to zero and pound someone you fly gallente. I could go on and on. You pick the tool to fit the job. Brilliant deduction, that's why they have 2 turret bonuses and not 2 tank bonuses... oh wait. -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity."
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards	Posted - 2008.02.01 09:14:00 - [211] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Jonny JoJo My EFT warfare is correct! Oneeleven! Yarr! Amarr haz issues! Undock and play the game instead of EFT At any rate, how do you fit your little omen? How would you reccomend us Amarr to fit our omen or even maller to fight a thorax or vexor? Sig locked, lack of Eve content
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2008.02.01 09:33:00 - [212] [Omen, nano?] Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Large Shield Extender II Warp Disruptor II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Standard M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Standard M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Standard M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Standard M Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thunderbolt Heavy Missile [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Hobgoblin II x3 I'm actually gonna try this tomorrow. I'm about 400m/s slower than in my stabber, but I'll have about double DPS @ 15km. I don't have high hopes, cap's gonna be a big problem. Can't run the MWD too often or too long (unless you shut off guns). Maybe I'll drop something for a CPR.
The Djego Minmatar FORTES FORTUNA ADIUVAT CORP. The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.01 09:34:00 - [213] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Jonny JoJo My EFT warfare is correct! Oneeleven! Yarr! Amarr haz issues! Undock and play the game instead of EFT At any rate, how do you fit your little omen? How would you reccomend us Amarr to fit our omen or even maller to fight a thorax or vexor? Simply fit the Omen for Speed not for Tank. O wait wasn¦t it you that complained you can¦t repacage a crystall while you never used it in combat. This makes sence now. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Jonny JoJo 425 II In PVE? Surely hybrid users use Blaster in PvE.
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards	Posted - 2008.02.01 09:36:00 - [214] Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad [Omen, nano?] Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Large Shield Extender II Warp Disruptor II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Standard M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Standard M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Standard M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Standard M Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thunderbolt Heavy Missile [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Hobgoblin II x3 I'm actually gonna try this tomorrow. I'm about 400m/s slower than in my stabber, but I'll have about double DPS @ 15km. I don't have high hopes, cap's gonna be a big problem. Can't run the MWD too often or too long (unless you shut off guns). Maybe I'll drop something for a CPR. Such a omen will miss most of its shots vs stabber. Basically, you are only really using 1 or 2 guns due to large amount of misses. Speed ONLY works on fast tracking turrets or non-turret weapon systems. Sig locked, lack of Eve content
The Djego Minmatar FORTES FORTUNA ADIUVAT CORP. The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.01 09:37:00 - [215] Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad [Omen, nano?] Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Large Shield Extender II Warp Disruptor II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Standard M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Standard M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Standard M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Standard M Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thunderbolt Heavy Missile [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Hobgoblin II x3 I'm actually gonna try this tomorrow. I'm about 400m/s slower than in my stabber, but I'll have about double DPS @ 15km. I don't have high hopes, cap's gonna be a big problem. Can't run the MWD too often or too long (unless you shut off guns). Maybe I'll drop something for a CPR. You will need Scorch or Microwave for it Multis will not hit outside of Web Range. I allready mentioned my Setup that goes with a minimal AT and a Cap Booster, but this is yust me. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Jonny JoJo 425 II In PVE? Surely hybrid users use Blaster in PvE.
The Djego Minmatar FORTES FORTUNA ADIUVAT CORP. The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.01 09:40:00 - [216] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 01/02/2008 09:37:16 Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad [Omen, nano?] Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Large Shield Extender II Warp Disruptor II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Standard M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Standard M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Standard M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Standard M Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thunderbolt Heavy Missile [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Hobgoblin II x3 I'm actually gonna try this tomorrow. I'm about 400m/s slower than in my stabber, but I'll have about double DPS @ 15km. I don't have high hopes, cap's gonna be a big problem. Can't run the MWD too often or too long (unless you shut off guns). Maybe I'll drop something for a CPR. Such a omen will miss most of its shots vs stabber. Basically, you are only really using 1 or 1/2 of a gun due to large amount of misses. Actually, using the tracking formula, it seems to be even worse, since you WILL be fighting close range as you dont have a web to keep people at your optimal. Speed ONLY works on fast tracking turrets or non-turret weapon systems. This is wrong, actualy Puls hit a bit better on 15km and more because of the Optimal. You will miss with AKs because some thing called Falloff. Or do you belive People shoot with her Guns while running the MWD? ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Jonny JoJo 425 II In PVE? Surely hybrid users use Blaster in PvE.
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards	Posted - 2008.02.01 09:40:00 - [217] Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 01/02/2008 09:40:53 Originally by: The Djego Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad [Omen, nano?] Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Large Shield Extender II Warp Disruptor II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Standard M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Standard M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Standard M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Standard M Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thunderbolt Heavy Missile [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Hobgoblin II x3 I'm actually gonna try this tomorrow. I'm about 400m/s slower than in my stabber, but I'll have about double DPS @ 15km. I don't have high hopes, cap's gonna be a big problem. Can't run the MWD too often or too long (unless you shut off guns). Maybe I'll drop something for a CPR. You will need Scorch or Microwave for it Multis will not hit outside of Web Range. I allready mentioned my Setup that goes with a minimal AT and a Cap Booster, but this is yust me. Its a crap setup. Please run tracking calculator. Scorch makes tracking even worse. No web to dictate range either If you want condor amount of damage due to tracking, then go ahead with joke setup. Nano only works on fast tracking guns or drones/missiles. It does not work on Amarr cruiser lasers as they have horrible tracking - the worst of all cruisers fact, so you will miss almost all your shots Sig locked, lack of Eve content
The Djego Minmatar FORTES FORTUNA ADIUVAT CORP. The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.01 09:42:00 - [218] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 01/02/2008 09:40:53 Originally by: The Djego Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad [Omen, nano?] Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II Overdrive Injector System II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Large Shield Extender II Warp Disruptor II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Standard M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Standard M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Standard M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Standard M Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thunderbolt Heavy Missile [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] Hobgoblin II x3 I'm actually gonna try this tomorrow. I'm about 400m/s slower than in my stabber, but I'll have about double DPS @ 15km. I don't have high hopes, cap's gonna be a big problem. Can't run the MWD too often or too long (unless you shut off guns). Maybe I'll drop something for a CPR. You will need Scorch or Microwave for it Multis will not hit outside of Web Range. I allready mentioned my Setup that goes with a minimal AT and a Cap Booster, but this is yust me. Its a crap setup. Please run tracking calculator. Scorch makes tracking even worse. No web to dictate range either If you want condor amount of damage due to tracking, then go ahead with joke setup. Nano only works on fast tracking guns or drones/missiles. It does not work on Amarr cruiser lasers as they have horrible tracking - the worst of all cruisers fact, so you will miss almost all your shots Says the one that never fired his Crystall??? ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Jonny JoJo 425 II In PVE? Surely hybrid users use Blaster in PvE.
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2008.02.01 10:21:00 - [219] Originally by: The Djego You will need Scorch or Microwave for it Multis will not hit outside of Web Range. I allready mentioned my Setup that goes with a minimal AT and a Cap Booster, but this is yust me. With my skills AN Standard M drops me @ 14km optimal (what I'm using). Cap usage and tracking penalty on T2 ammo means I'm gonna keep Scorch and AN MF in my hold and hopefully I won't have to use em. =\ I'll try it out tomorrow and post here how it goes.
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2008.02.01 10:24:00 - [220] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 01/02/2008 09:37:16 Such a omen will miss most of its shots vs stabber. Basically, you are only really using 1 or 1/2 of a gun due to large amount of misses. Actually, using the tracking formula, it seems to be even worse, since you WILL be fighting close range as you dont have a web to keep people at your optimal. Speed ONLY works on fast tracking turrets or non-turret weapon systems. Actually, it should track fine. It won't track as well with the MWD on, but you only burst it anyway when you need to dictate range. And I won't have to deal with a barrage tracking penalty. Or doing 44% of my paper dps because I'm @ 1 x falloff.
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2008.02.01 10:29:00 - [221] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 01/02/2008 09:40:53 Its a crap setup. Please run tracking calculator. Scorch makes tracking even worse. No web to dictate range either If you want condor amount of damage due to tracking, then go ahead with joke setup. Nano only works on fast tracking guns or drones/missiles. It does not work on Amarr cruiser lasers as they have horrible tracking - the worst of all cruisers fact, so you will miss almost all your shots If I'm in web range at all it's because I'm hitting something that's not going to be hitting back or I've seriously ****** up anyway. You don't usually fit a web on a stabber either, you rely on your speed keeping you out of web range. DPS drops to almost nothing when you MWD because of tracking, but most of the time I'm orbiting @ under 350 m/s @ 15km out.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2008.02.01 10:51:00 - [222] Originally by: The Djego This is wrong, actualy Puls hit a bit better on 15km and more because of the Optimal. You will miss with AKs because some thing called Falloff. Or do you belive People shoot with her Guns while running the MWD? He believes Vagabond use EMP M Originally by: Jonny JoJo Its a crap setup. Please run tracking calculator. Scorch makes tracking even worse. No web to dictate range either If you want condor amount of damage due to tracking, then go ahead with joke setup. Nano only works on fast tracking guns or drones/missiles. It does not work on Amarr cruiser lasers as they have horrible tracking - the worst of all cruisers fact, so you will miss almost all your shots JoJo, you are a noob. Tracking (with standards) is very comparable to 220mm AC tracking with barrage (which is a must). Still, it doesn't really stop everyone from shooting relatively reliably. Tracking is definitely not a problem for this setup. Furthermore, do you have any idea how turret-based nanoships are flown? Well, you don't shoot and MWD basically, unless you're shooting a MWD-ing target (so he has a big enough sig radius). You certainly don't out-traverse the guns, you outrange them. Also, it calls for manual piloting to be good with any turret-based nanoship. Originally by: Jonny JoJo Such a omen will miss most of its shots vs stabber. Basically, you are only really using 1 or 1/2 of a gun due to large amount of misses. Actually, using the tracking formula, it seems to be even worse, since you WILL be fighting close range as you dont have a web to keep people at your optimal. Yes, Vagabonds/Stabbers fight at close range too because they don't have a web to keep people at their optimal. Er...wait.... no Such a omen will have no issues hitting a MWD-ing stabber (sig size goes up with MWD, if you didn't know), and will have no issue hitting a non-MWD-ing stabber (very little angular velocity really). It is so painfully obvious you have no idea about EvE combat in general. So, I'll ask you again. Where can we see your awesome PvP record? Personally, for the omen setup above I'd replace one of the OD IIs with a CPR II so you can MWD for longer if needed, speed is very adequate anyway (since a 50-60% speed differential between you and your average target is quite enough). Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards	Posted - 2008.02.01 12:18:00 - [223] Cheers for confirming that you guys are blobers. 20 vs 1 or nanoblob vs 1 and you claim Amarr is balanced. Lol. Just LOL in 20 v 1, it makes no difference your cap, ship etc etc. The target is gonna die. in nanoblob vs 1, non-amarr ships are better due to having better speed. Thats why minmatar ships do so well. obviously you guys are unable to fight something that is able to fight back on equal terms. That is fine, but shows your lack of understanding for balance Sig locked, lack of Eve content
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.01 12:20:00 - [224] Edited by: Gamesguy on 01/02/2008 12:21:06 Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad Originally by: Jonny JoJo Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 01/02/2008 09:37:16 Such a omen will miss most of its shots vs stabber. Basically, you are only really using 1 or 1/2 of a gun due to large amount of misses. Actually, using the tracking formula, it seems to be even worse, since you WILL be fighting close range as you dont have a web to keep people at your optimal. Speed ONLY works on fast tracking turrets or non-turret weapon systems. Actually, it should track fine. It won't track as well with the MWD on, but you only burst it anyway when you need to dictate range. And I won't have to deal with a barrage tracking penalty. Or doing 44% of my paper dps because I'm @ 1 x falloff. You cant "burst the mwd to keep range". Have you actually flown a real nanoship? Vs any other ship that doesnt just flat outrun you, they will simple chase you with the mwd on. And just about every cruiser in the game has better cap than the omen does with lasers. You will cap out, end up webbed, and die unable to even fire back. Against a thorax, bmoa, rupture, stabber, vexor, etc. Seriously, a freaking rifter will eat that setup for lunch. Your setup is a joke. And please, accuse me of being an eft warrior so I can laugh at you.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2008.02.01 12:27:00 - [225] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Meep, I may be wrong, but you are blobbers!!! Yarrr! Not really. I think you can preety much find everyone's PvP stats and see in how big groups he flies. Except for you, which leads me to believe, together with your lol ideas, that you don't actually PvP, ever. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.01 13:15:00 - [226] Originally by: Cpt Branko Against a Thorax, every nano T1 cruiser has little chances because, well, a Thorax can MWD for longer then anyone else. Vexor? You can't take down a skilled Vexor pilot in a nano T1 cruiser. T1 nano cruiser vs Rupture is just asking to die in a horrible fashion anyway. Bmoa same, because it can hit at good range with Null M and neutrons. T1 nano cruisers are not very powerful, you see, but they do give you the option of disengaging if the other guy knows what he's doing, since you are faster then everything which can kill you and can gank the only T1 cruiser which can catch you (the Stabber). Incidentally, this omen is guaranteed to beat a stabber or draw with it. Unless it's a plate stabber with a web on, and I see a lot of those in PvP. You forgot the caracal, the various EW cruisers(yes even the bellicose). In fact, the only cruiser you can beat with that setup is maybe the osprey or the scythe, this is like bragging your setup is good because you can beat a covetor with it. I doubt a stabber would lose to it. At worst the stabber can always run being much faster than it. Originally by: Gamesguy Realistically, unless the Stabber pilot is very careful, a AB Rifter will kill him. I've done this a number of times personally in the Rifter. Let him idly orbit while you're AB-ing full time, then heat the AB/web when you spot the chance (since you're not getting hit much going at 956m/s with very small sig radius, you have some time to do this) - but it is the tricky part, web him, and after that he's dead as he can't counter-web and can't track even with the burn away trick. A MWD Rifter may be even better for this (at least at the catching part although you're guaranteed to soak up much more damage that way), never tried fighting a Stabber in one though, since I quite like a AB fit for low-sec soloing in a Rifter. AB setups are unrealistic because you will die to the first inty with a web you run into. I havent really flown the stabber in a combat capacity but the vaga can track most inties unwebbed. Quote: I'm digressing anyway. Are T1 nanos very powerful? No. However, the Omen can be used in this configuration and its preformance isn't that much worse then the Stabber. Then again, the Stabber isn't very powerful itself, and I really don't like flying the ship at all when compared to the Rupture. Stabber is far faster than the omen, it does everything this setup does but better. You can kill inties in a stabber setup for speed. You cannot do this on the omen. What good is this ship? It cant do dps, it cant tackle, it cant do EW, its not really fast enough to disengage from anything smaller than BS. Quote: Also: fyi, the Stabber/Fleet Stabber/Cynabal/Vagabond are NOT cap stable ships (or even close) and MUST pulse the MWD themselves, and can't hit accurately when MWD-ing. Not every nano-ship is a Sacriledge so you can cap boost and pelt people with HAMs ignoring tracking completely. Between 3 characters and counting only nanoships I fly the vaga, zealot, sacriledge, ishtar, deimos, and curse(ok this one sits in the hanger collecting dust). That setup is still made of fail.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2008.02.01 13:27:00 - [227] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 01/02/2008 13:28:56 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 01/02/2008 13:28:26 Originally by: Gamesguy You forgot the caracal, the various EW cruisers(yes even the bellicose). In fact, the only cruiser you can beat with that setup is maybe the osprey or the scythe, this is like bragging your setup is good because you can beat a covetor with it. I doubt a stabber would lose to it. At worst the stabber can always run being much faster than it. TBH, a Stabber won't really kill a well setup Caracal either, and it will have to run away from the Omen. Of course, T1 nanos are for killing newbies in the first place. Originally by: Gamesguy AB setups are unrealistic because you will die to the first inty with a web you run into. I havent really flown the stabber in a combat capacity but the vaga can track most inties unwebbed. I was talking about the Rifter AB setup. Of course, it dies to the first inty with a web you run into. LOL. Horrible fit, but still proves my point. Railtaranis fighting in webrange. Yes, I know it's stupid. Proper blaster-taranis Another blaster-taranis Another blaster taranis Rail taranis in webrange (Rapier pilot was just KM whoring) Malediction in webrange AB Rifter webs another blaster-taranis Taking a short-range interceptor vs a competent Rifter pilot (yes, with a AB) is a very risky maneuver. It's the long range ones you should be worried about if you fly with the AB on a Rifter. Anyway, I think it's beyond the point. Quote: Stabber is far faster than the omen, it does everything this setup does but better. You can kill inties in a stabber setup for speed. You cannot do this on the omen. Yeah, you can probably bring your average blaster-taranis to 50% armour before you get webbed and die in a utterly horrible fashion. Quote: What good is this ship? It cant do dps, it cant tackle, it cant do EW, its not really fast enough to disengage from anything smaller than BS. It'll disengage from a cruiser/BC/BS just fine. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards	Posted - 2008.02.01 14:34:00 - [228] Originally by: Cpt Branko Against a Thorax, every nano T1 cruiser has little chances because, well, a Thorax can MWD for longer then anyone else. Vexor? You can't take down a skilled Vexor pilot in a nano T1 cruiser. T1 nano cruiser vs Rupture is just asking to die in a horrible fashion anyway. Bmoa same, because it can hit at good range with Null M and neutrons. Laser Thorax still beats laser maller or Laser Omen. Therefore something is seriously wrong with thorax which is why it should have its dronebay nerfed. Vexor crushes both as well. So that proves my point - those ships are overpowered and CCP should nerf. Sig locked, lack of Eve content
Proxay Gallente Fallen Angel's Blade.	Posted - 2008.02.01 15:12:00 - [229] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: Cpt Branko Against a Thorax, every nano T1 cruiser has little chances because, well, a Thorax can MWD for longer then anyone else. Vexor? You can't take down a skilled Vexor pilot in a nano T1 cruiser. T1 nano cruiser vs Rupture is just asking to die in a horrible fashion anyway. Bmoa same, because it can hit at good range with Null M and neutrons. Laser Thorax still beats laser maller or Laser Omen. Therefore something is seriously wrong with thorax which is why it should have its dronebay nerfed. Vexor crushes both as well. So that proves my point - those ships are overpowered and CCP should nerf. Does this look like the bloody game development forum you utter tart?
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards	Posted - 2008.02.01 15:30:00 - [230] Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 01/02/2008 15:30:04 Originally by: Proxay Originally by: Jonny JoJo Laser Thorax still beats laser maller or Laser Omen. Therefore something is seriously wrong with thorax which is why it should have its dronebay nerfed. Vexor crushes both as well. So that proves my point - those ships are overpowered and CCP should nerf. Does this look like the bloody game development forum you utter tart? It certainly is not the back of Kings Cross Station, given your language! Sig locked, lack of Eve content
Copenhagen JuBa Corp RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.01 16:07:00 - [231] Originally by: Cpt Branko Undock and play the game instead of EFT /QFT There has been one of these threads about every ship in the game. Train some skills, learn how to fly the damn ship, do the unexpected, and have fun!! I think some of you want every races ships to be identical to the others just with a different name. Being a team player in your gang doesnt mean that you have to have better or even the same DPS as everybody else. Learn how to compliment them and make your gang stronger. As long as the hostile dies, does anything else really matter?
Jonny MoJo Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.25 07:39:00 - [232] Originally by: Copenhagen Originally by: Cpt Branko Undock and play the game instead of EFT /QFT There has been one of these threads about every ship in the game. Train some skills, learn how to fly the damn ship, do the unexpected, and have fun!! I think some of you want every races ships to be identical to the others just with a different name. Being a team player in your gang doesnt mean that you have to have better or even the same DPS as everybody else. Learn how to compliment them and make your gang stronger. As long as the hostile dies, does anything else really matter? Ok, given the new changes to Omen, Could someone suggest a high quality Laser Omen or Laser Maller setup that is better than laser thorax? Refresh for next Real life CCP Sig(21 Total)
Terianna Eri Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.25 08:01:00 - [233] Originally by: Jonny MoJo Originally by: Copenhagen Originally by: Cpt Branko Undock and play the game instead of EFT /QFT There has been one of these threads about every ship in the game. Train some skills, learn how to fly the damn ship, do the unexpected, and have fun!! I think some of you want every races ships to be identical to the others just with a different name. Being a team player in your gang doesnt mean that you have to have better or even the same DPS as everybody else. Learn how to compliment them and make your gang stronger. As long as the hostile dies, does anything else really matter? Ok, given the new changes to Omen, Could someone suggest a high quality Laser Omen or Laser Maller setup that is better than laser thorax? Sure. Hi: 5x FMP II, Scorch Mid: MWD, Faint disruptor, small cap booster Low: 2x Heat Sink II, Basic Heat Sink (CPU, o noes), PDU, Nano / Overdrive Drone: 3x Warrior II Goes pretty fast, deals pretty good damage, is cheap as balls, and has some drones for comedy anti-drone work. I think if you use a named MWD you can get rid of the PDU to upgrade the basic to a T2 heatsink and fit another nano/OD in there. Have used on Sisi a bit; gotten some nice kills. __________________________________
X99 Z990	Posted - 2008.02.25 13:23:00 - [234] Originally by: Jonny JoJo Originally by: Cpt Branko Against a Thorax, every nano T1 cruiser has little chances because, well, a Thorax can MWD for longer then anyone else. Vexor? You can't take down a skilled Vexor pilot in a nano T1 cruiser. T1 nano cruiser vs Rupture is just asking to die in a horrible fashion anyway. Bmoa same, because it can hit at good range with Null M and neutrons. Laser Thorax still beats laser maller or Laser Omen. Therefore something is seriously wrong with thorax which is why it should have its dronebay nerfed. Vexor crushes both as well. So that proves my point - those ships are overpowered and CCP should nerf. im willing to duel you in a maller, so long as you fly a laser thorax.
Bum Slave	Posted - 2008.03.01 19:39:00 - [235] WOoo

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