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Void Seller All In Enterprise	Posted - 2008.05.09 08:39:00 - [361] Originally by: Ghaelsto Kakram When you use the cynojammed system deathstar multiple Titan setup you're putting up all three all the time. Some Bob members already agreed with it that this setup is impossible to break. Because this setup simply is a broken game mechanic. If you use this logic it would make sense that within a cynojammed system you wouldn't be able to DDD. But its amusing to see you make up excuses Titans shouldn't be nerfed. Your arguments backfired. Originally by: Lord WarATron nobody has had any major problem incaping a jammer by surprise since nobody camps a jammer 24/7 365 days a year. Use your brain before posting ghaelsto
Space Explorer Minmatar Evil Fluffy Bunnies	Posted - 2008.05.09 08:49:00 - [362] Just make Titans mobile stations with a lot of restrictions, and make them conquerable o/
Darcuese Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.09 08:51:00 - [363] 85% is something i was hoping to get lower in Eve community. Unfortunalty, hope is not a fact. Clue - stupidity me, myself and I ------>
thoth foc Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.09 08:53:00 - [364] Edited by: thoth foc on 09/05/2008 08:54:14 Originally by: geno effort Nobody can keep a sizable defense force in a system 23/7, but they can definitely keep a few titans (out of 10... 20... 30 in the future) in a system 23/7, or a system that's jumpbridged to the target system, or in jump range to a system that's jumpbridged to the target system, especially with the account sharing going on. This is the whole point of the thread, remember? Sure, there are other broken mechanics in current sov warfare, such as jump bridges working under cyno jammers, incapacitated cyno jammers destroyable and new ones re-anchorable in minutes, and so on, but let's talk titans in this thread. Account sharing is against the EULA.. i suggest you petition characters rather than spamming accusations on CAOD.. As for your titan arguements.. well if your only thoughts on attack is to lemming jump fleets into systems.. it is only proper that you should keep on dying horribly to DD's tbh.. If you read molle's post 361, a far better solution is to remove insurance.. that hits all parts of a fleet.. initially, further reduces blobbing and leaves the titan ship much more vulnerable to getting kill.. titans getting killed by players is always going to be a far better solution to having "too many titans" than whining to get them nerfed.. ------------------ x-DSMA (Menta) x-CA (OMEGA/BOS) x-.5.(ATUK) BOB (DICE)
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.09 09:02:00 - [365] Originally by: Void Seller Originally by: Lord WarATron nobody has had any major problem incaping a jammer by surprise since nobody camps a jammer 24/7 365 days a year. Use your brain before posting ghaelsto People camp Jammers 24/7 365 days a year? -- Billion Isk Mission
Dashboard Hard Rock Cafe	Posted - 2008.05.09 09:07:00 - [366] Originally by: Etho Demerzel Originally by: Shrike To kill a titan you need; 1 HID, 5 dreads. To survive in a titan you need; A support fleet of 100. NERF DREADS! Its clearly unbalanced that the titan needs a support fleet to be safe vs 5 dreads and a HIC. Sure sure. LOL. That is why yours was killed by 5 dreads and a HID right? Oh wait, it took about 100 people to take your titan down when you were almost alone. Clearly a balanced ship... I understand that you know you are not good enough to win when your opponets have the same resources, but try to campaign for your I-WIN button more discreetly, please. Your irony detector is faulty. Try again.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.05.09 09:09:00 - [367] Originally by: thoth foc Edited by: thoth foc on 09/05/2008 08:54:14 Originally by: geno effort Nobody can keep a sizable defense force in a system 23/7, but they can definitely keep a few titans (out of 10... 20... 30 in the future) in a system 23/7, or a system that's jumpbridged to the target system, or in jump range to a system that's jumpbridged to the target system, especially with the account sharing going on. This is the whole point of the thread, remember? Sure, there are other broken mechanics in current sov warfare, such as jump bridges working under cyno jammers, incapacitated cyno jammers destroyable and new ones re-anchorable in minutes, and so on, but let's talk titans in this thread. Account sharing is against the EULA.. i suggest you petition characters rather than spamming accusations on CAOD.. As for your titan arguements.. well if your only thoughts on attack is to lemming jump fleets into systems.. it is only proper that you should keep on dying horribly to DD's tbh.. If you read molle's post 361, a far better solution is to remove insurance.. that hits all parts of a fleet.. initially, further reduces blobbing and leaves the titan ship much more vulnerable to getting kill.. titans getting killed by players is always going to be a far better solution to having "too many titans" than whining to get them nerfed.. I guess we'll just have to see how 0.0 warfare evolves with the number of titans increasing. I predict that unless they are changed/nerfed or sovereignty mechanics seriously modified, the steady increase in the number of titans will lead to serious problems in terms of the attractiveness/viability of 0.0 warfare. Just like happened before the remote DD was nerfed. And before the HICtor was introduced. And before titans could not jump out. Had we/CCP listened to you before that happened, none of these changes would have occurred. But of course, none of those were actually needed nerfs, right? Maybe CCP should introduce the Polaris frigate. To be built at a cost of 1 trillion isk. And then laugh at anyone who whines about it being overpowered.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.05.09 09:12:00 - [368] Originally by: Lord WarATron Originally by: Void Seller Originally by: Lord WarATron nobody has had any major problem incaping a jammer by surprise since nobody camps a jammer 24/7 365 days a year. Use your brain before posting ghaelsto People camp Jammers 24/7 365 days a year? Yes, because its really hard to have a few spies around who tell you who is going to attack you at any given moment, and you are not able to react to attackers by jumpbridging your titans between cynojammed systems at will.
Void Seller All In Enterprise	Posted - 2008.05.09 09:16:00 - [369] Originally by: Lord WarATron Originally by: Void Seller Originally by: Lord WarATron nobody has had any major problem incaping a jammer by surprise since nobody camps a jammer 24/7 365 days a year. Use your brain before posting ghaelsto People camp Jammers 24/7 365 days a year? Ofc no, that's my point
Waagaa Ktlehr Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.09 09:16:00 - [370] Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: Lord WarATron Originally by: Void Seller Originally by: Lord WarATron nobody has had any major problem incaping a jammer by surprise since nobody camps a jammer 24/7 365 days a year. Use your brain before posting ghaelsto People camp Jammers 24/7 365 days a year? Yes, because its really hard to have a few spies around who tell you who is going to attack you at any given moment, and you are not able to react to attackers by jumpbridging your titans between cynojammed systems at will. So if it is so easy, why hasn't the coalition done any of this? Maybe it is harder than BoB makes it look like? - -

Void Seller All In Enterprise	Posted - 2008.05.09 09:22:00 - [371] Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: Lord WarATron Originally by: Void Seller Originally by: Lord WarATron nobody has had any major problem incaping a jammer by surprise since nobody camps a jammer 24/7 365 days a year. Use your brain before posting ghaelsto People camp Jammers 24/7 365 days a year? Yes, because its really hard to have a few spies around who tell you who is going to attack you at any given moment, and you are not able to react to attackers by jumpbridging your titans between cynojammed systems at will. Rofl, spies work 24/7, titan camp 24/7... omagad bob don't sleep?
thoth foc Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.09 09:23:00 - [372] Originally by: Malachon Draco I guess we'll just have to see how 0.0 warfare evolves with the number of titans increasing. I predict that unless they are changed/nerfed or sovereignty mechanics seriously modified, the steady increase in the number of titans will lead to serious problems in terms of the attractiveness/viability of 0.0 warfare. Sovereignty mechanics and the game economy are far more serious issues than titans.. in the end a titan is just a ship, and if you apply a little intelligence a ship can be killed.. ------------------ x-DSMA (Menta) x-CA (OMEGA/BOS) x-.5.(ATUK) BOB (DICE)
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.05.09 09:28:00 - [373] Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr So if it is so easy, why hasn't the coalition done any of this? Maybe it is harder than BoB makes it look like? How many Sov 4 constellations have you taken from RA? Or Triumvirate? Or MM? Or AAA? How about you prove how easy it is to take out Sov 4 constellations from an alliance with a large enough membership and numerous titans that has not already fallen apart due to internal bickering or absence of leadership (i.e. MC).
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.05.09 09:30:00 - [374] Originally by: Void Seller Rofl, spies work 24/7, titan camp 24/7... omagad bob don't sleep? Yes, because an alliance is only able/allowed to have one spy. And a spy must be online at the exact moment of the attack to be able to reveal the attack beforehand. Its not like he could be online in the 2-3 days prior to an attack and hear about the upcoming operation, since it takes no preparation to get the BS fleet and the capital fleet ready and within jumprange of a prospective target. So you must be right, BoB has a spy that is online 23/7. Haxxors!
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.05.09 09:33:00 - [375] Originally by: thoth foc Originally by: Malachon Draco I guess we'll just have to see how 0.0 warfare evolves with the number of titans increasing. I predict that unless they are changed/nerfed or sovereignty mechanics seriously modified, the steady increase in the number of titans will lead to serious problems in terms of the attractiveness/viability of 0.0 warfare. Sovereignty mechanics and the game economy are far more serious issues than titans.. in the end a titan is just a ship, and if you apply a little intelligence a ship can be killed.. Only if your opponent is reckless/stupid. And you didn't address my main point. Already we have seen 3 solid nerfs to titans. Yet many of you claimed beforehand that 'titans were fine'. So what happened? Did CCP cave in? Do you think you would have been able to kill Oort if it had still been possible to remote DD? Or if the HICtor had not been introduced? Or if he could have jumped out seconds after DDing?
thoth foc Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.09 09:34:00 - [376] Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr So if it is so easy, why hasn't the coalition done any of this? Maybe it is harder than BoB makes it look like? How many Sov 4 constellations have you taken from RA? Or Triumvirate? Or MM? Or AAA? How about you prove how easy it is to take out Sov 4 constellations from an alliance with a large enough membership and numerous titans that has not already fallen apart due to internal bickering or absence of leadership (i.e. MC). Is that like the "omg you cant take cynojammed + titan systems.. cynojammer must be overpowered" arguement? I dont honestly think you believe BOB's leadership decides it's goals based on CAOD.. do you? ------------------ x-DSMA (Menta) x-CA (OMEGA/BOS) x-.5.(ATUK) BOB (DICE)
Star Nove Minmatar Blueprint Haus Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.05.09 09:37:00 - [377] Just a thought, make mom's and titans lockable. So you can eject in a POS and put in a password to the SuperCap's own shields that stop it a: moving (no bumpage) and b: being flown by anyone else without your password. (tip: Make it secure, don't forget it. The GM's will laugh at you and anyone who can cr*ck the password can take it) What has this got to do with the OP's OP? Well, when I lost my dread in the BQO fight the other day, I decided I didn't want to risk my carrier in the mini home invasions that arrived that evening so I jumped into a brutix. And boy did I have a ball!! Using all those skill points nothing to do with capitals again was a breath of fresh air. So, maybe, if all those Titan/MoM pilots didn't have to sit in their ships for fear of losing them to a corp/alliance thief, they might choose to fly in something else, relive their youth so to speak. Then the DDD's might only ever happen when they really are the last resort. Rather than bored titan pilots wiping out a gate camp that a 30 man fleet could have dealt with.. Also loved the AOE guns idea further up the thread.. -- The views expressed in this post are mine and in no way reflect the views of my Corp, my Alliance or my pet Iquana, Julio Ignacio DoubleGlazias.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.05.09 09:41:00 - [378] Originally by: thoth foc Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr So if it is so easy, why hasn't the coalition done any of this? Maybe it is harder than BoB makes it look like? How many Sov 4 constellations have you taken from RA? Or Triumvirate? Or MM? Or AAA? How about you prove how easy it is to take out Sov 4 constellations from an alliance with a large enough membership and numerous titans that has not already fallen apart due to internal bickering or absence of leadership (i.e. MC). Is that like the "omg you cant take cynojammed + titan systems.. cynojammer must be overpowered" arguement? I dont honestly think you believe BOB's leadership decides it's goals based on CAOD.. do you? Where did I say that? All I am saying is that a Sov 4 constellation defended by a functioning alliance with a number of titans is virtually impregnable. Your response is: Nuhuh! It is easy. My response is: Show us some proof. Forget the bloody theorycrafting. Show us proof. Either by you, or by anyone else. I'm also satisfied if Triumvirate manages to break a MM Sov 4 constellation or vice versa. Or if SMACK-FIX or whatever they are called manage to take out a RA Sov 4 constellation which is being defended. So far all I see from you is theory about 'how easy it is' while you ignore all the practical problems of spies, accountsharing, lag and people having lives beyond Eve.
Tearavygh Quillam Caldari Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.09 09:42:00 - [379] Originally by: thoth foc I dont honestly think you believe BOB's leadership decides it's goals based on CAOD.. do you? BoB decides its goals upon what's achievable. Just like everyone else.
Zeveron Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.09 09:57:00 - [380] Originally by: Tearavygh Quillam Originally by: thoth foc I dont honestly think you believe BOB's leadership decides it's goals based on CAOD.. do you? BoB decides its goals upon what's achievable. Just like everyone else. nahh others choose to run and hide than fight. Then bring other 30 alliances to get their space back. Atleast BoB stands and fights not concidering the odds :-) Titans are just fine. The only adjustment that maybe needed is, if a DD is fired then make the cynojammer not working for 10 mins.

thoth foc Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.09 09:58:00 - [381] Edited by: thoth foc on 09/05/2008 10:07:06 Originally by: Malachon Draco And you didn't address my main point. Already we have seen 3 solid nerfs to titans. Yet many of you claimed beforehand that 'titans were fine'. So what happened? Did CCP cave in? Do you think you would have been able to kill Oort if it had still been possible to remote DD? Or if the HICtor had not been introduced? Or if he could have jumped out seconds after DDing? Correct me if i'm wrong, but both D2's and ASCN's titan could remote DD? Actually, I wasnt hughly upset by titans pre nerf (but then this is only a game nothing really bothers me that much in it tbh).. with 100% insurance, you dont actually losing much dying.. with such easy isk making these days.. i prefer to see anti-blob aspects to the game, i would prefer that it is the economy that is used to address this, and i like to see ships being risked in combat.. It is not uncommon for a ship to be introduce overpowered, and later nerfed.. i think it was generally accepted that titans were overpowered in some aspects, you are very good at pointing out they were nerfed, but they also got "boosted" to conpensate for the removal if the remote DD.. prior to the changes to bumping using titans were too vulnerable to use on grid.. that was fixed so that the pilot no longer had as valid an "excuse" not to use the ship on grid.. i know Molle, Dian and others were suggesting it needed changed.. so i'm sure you can find an example of someone saying titans pre nerf were prefect, but i would suggest that more likely it is you wanting to read that into someone post, and lacking the consideration that the titan nerf wasnt the fix that was needed, as we can see from the fact you are still whining about them.. In the end, I wont deny that since i have billions, losing ships really doesnt mean much to me.. Originally by: Malachon Draco Where did I say that? I didnt say you said it, i just asked if the analogy was true.. It is just an example of how hugh numbers of ppl said something was impossible until BOB/GBC did it.. ------------------ x-DSMA (Menta) x-CA (OMEGA/BOS) x-.5.(ATUK) BOB (DICE)
ChoppinBrocolli GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.09 10:12:00 - [382] Originally by: Zeveron Atleast BoB stands and fights not concidering the odds :-) yeah you did a good job at that in the last 3 regions we took from you guys, kudos
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.09 10:14:00 - [383] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 09/05/2008 10:15:01 Originally by: Malachon Draco My response is: Show us some proof. Forget the bloody theorycrafting. Show us proof. Either by you, or by anyone else. NOL System. Cynojammer was taken down and Oort and Jabin and and a super blob of hostile capitals jumped in. Thats your proof. What went wrong was people cynoed out of NOL as they did not want to risk their caps. So insted of seiging the system for a couple of days so it drops sov, they simply packed their bags and left. Cynojammers force cap fights if the defenders want one, since titans obsolete crapfit ships. Strage how the people complaining most are those that were expecting the 2005/6 tactic of seiging pos's and cynoing out 20 jumps away out of danger for risk free cap usage as well as thouse who use t1 rat loot fitted cruisers and frigs. -- Billion Isk Mission
Waagaa Ktlehr Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.09 10:17:00 - [384] Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr So if it is so easy, why hasn't the coalition done any of this? Maybe it is harder than BoB makes it look like? How many Sov 4 constellations have you taken from RA? Or Triumvirate? Or MM? Or AAA? How about you prove how easy it is to take out Sov 4 constellations from an alliance with a large enough membership and numerous titans that has not already fallen apart due to internal bickering or absence of leadership (i.e. MC). I am sure, in due time, BoB will show you how it is done. About the never ending: "we killed ourselves, you had nothing to do with it argument" - meh, dying alliance have used that excuse since day one in EVE. It's as transparent as it will ever be and has always been. - -
Centauris Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.09 10:57:00 - [385] Edited by: Centauris on 09/05/2008 11:00:02 Basically introduce a system counter if we MUST keep doomsdays. 1 DD per system per hour per any alliance, just 1 doomsday per system per hour PERIOD. That negates the effect of having XXX amount of titans guard a cyno jammer for example and DD every 6 minutes or so. It will make every DD need to be 100% thought out and make you decide when it will be the most advantageous to use it, if you misfire thats your bad luck and bad luck for an hour for every other entity who has a titan in that system itching to use it. TC4LIFE
Ghaelsto Kakram Mindgamers	Posted - 2008.05.09 11:04:00 - [386] Originally by: Lord WarATron People camp Jammers 24/7 365 days a year? Are you naive or stoopid? Or both? BS suprise attack on a jammer succeeded because spies were out of the loop. No titans defended the POS. Caps jump in and put the tower in RF. BS camp gates while caps are putting all towers in RF. During this time the defenders will have time to destroy the old jammer and put up a new one. Pos bridge is working overtime for the troops to come and defend. Lag is killing, defenders fail and all POS are in RF. Stront timing is tweaked for defenders optimal time. n amount of hours pass and defenders get ready for the fight. First they will rep POS with the jammer when it comes out of RF. Overlooked by Titans to annihilate anything sub capital with support of sniper BS. They refuel it and put jammer on line. Back to square one. Attackers lose 100+ BS, 100+ support and 50+ caps. Even this scenario will fail because of this large operation already will be reported way before it actually will happen. BS who are supposed to shoot down the jammer will be 'greated' by some nice splosions. Key element. Multiple Titan DDD. Why were all current jammed systems taken over? Because they weren't defended with multiple Titans.
Digiblast Minmatar The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.05.09 11:09:00 - [387] Originally by: Imperius Blackheart I'm of the opinion that Titans should be changed, in their current state they are overpowered but not massively, there just needs to be more drawbacks, the remote DD removal was a step in the right direction, as was the introduction of hictors. (although personally I think hictors are a little harsh against Motherships) Either the financial burden aquiring titan and maintaining a titan should be extreme, to a point that even the "big boys" only consider deploying them extremely rarely. I've been thinking about Titans of late and would like to see all or some of the following changes: Titan / Mothership shielding of a fleet, at the expense of their own protection if a shield is breeched, unable to move after the shield has fallen. Titans unable to use the safety of a POS Titans unable to be remote repped. Titans unable to move for 20 mins + after a doomsday, no warping no moving at all (kinda seige mode for a DD to be able to be fired). BPC's only available 1 run at the cost of current BPO's and material costs doubling. Titans given a bonus to turrets, becoming the same as seiged dreads for damage output. There needs to be major risk in fielding the ultimate ships. Cyno Jammers only deployable in 1 or 2 sov 4 systems. I'm just throwing ideas out now, but my point is something needs to change, the risk isn't really acceptable for 50-60 billion +10-20 billion in mods.. And the current proliferation is crazy. Most of the people who have posted here otherwise have something to defend clouding their judgement and I applaud Eddz's honesty coming out and saying this. Only a Idiot will use a supercap after these changes. Titan not able to move after DD for 20 min LOL Thats like Suicide. Titans unable to use the safety of a POS : The pos shield was changed by ccp back when the first Titan got killed by bob. So they could log out safely.! Titans unable to be remote repped.: It can hardly tank. KIA maybe you guys should take few months and learn more about your Titan. If there is anything needed to be changed then the Titan needs more Power. Maybe not the DD. It's perfect as it is. More like giving it more Turrent power, as most Titans have just smartbombs fitted. Give them tanking ability's.
Zeveron Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.09 11:10:00 - [388] Originally by: Centauris Edited by: Centauris on 09/05/2008 11:00:02 Basically introduce a system counter if we MUST keep doomsdays. 1 DD per system per hour per any alliance, just 1 doomsday per system per hour PERIOD. That negates the effect of having XXX amount of titans guard a cyno jammer for example and DD every 6 minutes or so. It will make every DD need to be 100% thought out and make you decide when it will be the most advantageous to use it, if you misfire thats your bad luck and bad luck for an hour for every other entity who has a titan in that system itching to use it. Wrong bcs of many reasons. It can be exploitable by many ways (alt aliances any1?) There are no such limits in eve for any other ship. Why titans? Its ok to blob with bs but not with titans? Again if somthing needs to be done is disable the cynojammer functionality for a sort period of time so the attacker can jump in dreads and try to kill the titan, if and only if a DD is fired.
Brmble Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.09 11:31:00 - [389] Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 09/05/2008 10:18:15 Originally by: Malachon Draco My response is: Show us some proof. Forget the bloody theorycrafting. Show us proof. Either by you, or by anyone else. NOL System. Cynojammer was taken down and Oort and Jabin and and a super blob of hostile capitals jumped in. Thats your proof. What went wrong was people cynoed out of NOL as they did not want to risk their caps. So insted of seiging the system for a couple of days so it drops sov, they simply packed their bags and left. Cynojammers force cap fights if the defenders want one, since titans obsolete crapfit ships. Strage how the people complaining most are those that were expecting the 2005/6 tactic of seiging pos's and cynoing out 20 jumps away out of danger for risk free cap usage as well as those who use t1 rat loot fitted cruisers and frigs. well least we can see where BoB's expertise lies: attacking strawmen ~ no not believin in urself ~
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.09 11:43:00 - [390] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 09/05/2008 11:43:21 Originally by: Brmble well least we can see where BoB's expertise lies: attacking strawmen You mean its not beating up your corpmates so much that they run to empire to emo rage on mining barges? -- Billion Isk Mission



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