Originally by: Koala Bare

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Nothing wrong with titans, plenty people fly dreads, dreads melt titans.

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Originally by: darkseed

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Ok getting DD'd sucks sometimes, but what other way of defence does a titan have ?

I think with the introduction of Heavy interdictors the titans got nerved enough to a point that they are really easy to kill.

I do however want the DD in a hostile pos bubble see adressed.

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Originally by: ElrondMD

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Titans dont matter, its titans in Cyno Jammed systems that matter.

Simple solution. Make a doomsday not work in a jammed system.

fixed.

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Originally by: KIAEddZ

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it is simple to make a Titan align and warp in sub 15 seconds, and still give it a 10+k DPS tank, even with the basic of officer mods, a full setup which would admittedly cost a lot, could have you warping in 10 seconds and tanking 15k+ dps...

Lets be honest, the day of 20 Titans on a battlefield is not far away.. thats 1.5ish million raw damage

10+k DPS tank, even with the basic of officer mods, a full setup which would admittedly cost a lot, could have you warping in 10 seconds and tanking 15k+ dps...
1.5ish million raw damage

tanking 15k+ dps
1.5ish million raw damage

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Originally by: KIAEddZ

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Dreads do indeed melt Titans. But something that can warp in 220km away, DD and warp out 15 seconds later, is pretty hard to tackle. Now multiply that by 2 or 3 Titans doing that together in syncronisation, then they become virtually impossible to tackle.

And what about the day when a Dread fleet is melted via DD... is it only then we must look at the problem?

AND, i guess my last point on that POV, is they are so easy to replace, you lose one, there's always a way to get another pretty quickly.

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Originally by: Frobond

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To me the way to fix this is to negate the effects of "nano" mods on a titan. so it cant re-aline to warp out in 15 seconds. Or make it to where it takes say 30 seconds for the titan to "recover" from dding and it cant move during that time

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Originally by: Anna Valerios

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Edited by: Anna Valerios on 08/05/2008 11:15:03

Originally by: Frobond

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To me the way to fix this is to negate the effects of "nano" mods on a titan. so it cant re-aline to warp out in 15 seconds. Or make it to where it takes say 30 seconds for the titan to "recover" from dding and it cant move during that time

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Best suggestion so far. Nano titans are the only stupid part of titans atm, being able to warp out faster than a battleship is just ******* stupid.

Avatar warp time with max skills is 45 seconds, if you cant get a tackle on that then your pretty **** ¼_¼

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Originally by: geno effort

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The solution is to nerf doomsday stacking. One doomsday per grid per hour. Let the titan pilots and their support fleets themselves do some tactics and actual fighting for a change.

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Originally by: KIAEddZ

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When someone is getting close, can I join your team

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Originally by: KIAEddZ

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Its no secret KIA own a Titan, and we will be getting another couple in the coming months.

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Originally by: KIAEddZ

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I am a firm believer that the the DD part of their capabilities must be removed from the game asap.

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Originally by: TWD

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Voting to nerf titans!

Remove DD, add a ship that feeds from the power of 10 titans so it can fire a remote super DD to a cyno!

Only alliances with 10 or more titans can make us of it, so it remains rare/fair (for a while).

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Originally by: geno effort

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Nanotitans are the least of the worries if all major alliances start stacking 10+ titans on a grid. No tackler can withstand an arbitrary number of concurrent doomsdays.

The solution is to nerf doomsday stacking. One doomsday per grid per hour. Let the titan pilots and their support fleets themselves do some tactics and actual fighting for a change.

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Originally by: geno effort

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One doomsday per grid per hour

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Originally by: Kaar

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Originally by: geno effort

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One doomsday per grid per hour

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Yeah cos thats not exploitable

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Originally by: CWevers

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What an immensly exaggerated whine post. Quit trying to change the gamerules by pressuring CCP all the time but adapt to them like you should in any game.

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Originally by: HellsRazor

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with that thought id get my alliance to DD the grid of hostile POS then kill it before hour is done lol according to your 1 DD per grid an hour :)

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Originally by: Anna Valerios

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Avatar warp time with max skills is 45 seconds, if you cant get a tackle on that then your pretty **** ¼_¼

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Originally by: geno effort

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Originally by: HellsRazor

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with that thought id get my alliance to DD the grid of hostile POS then kill it before hour is done lol according to your 1 DD per grid an hour :)

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Exactly. To "exploit" this in, say, a POS siege scenario you'd need to bring and expose your own titan into the (presumaby cynojammed) system, and expose it to a hostile POS. That looks less like an exploit and more like a fun tactical opportunity if you ask me.

Meanwhile, the titan-wielding alliance would be inclined nuke the hostile fleet at the gate, at the gate in the system next door and other unexpected places. All of which add opportunities for fun combat.

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Originally by: 7sunami

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So you want Titans nerfed to a commandship that sit inside a POS shield 100% of the time? :p

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Originally by: HellsRazor

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im drunk but can read this wrong. when FIGHTING of a system not cyno jamed you just need to DD the POS you wanna kill and garrentee 1 hour free killing :) with out worring about hostile TITAN right?

your assuming a cynojammed system not a frontline system like us REAL alliances are fighting :)

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Originally by: Gregoriuses

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Titans should be rare in EVE. 1 titan per alliance i say it should be and number of alliances should be limited

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Originally by: Gregoriuses

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Titans should be rare in EVE. 1 titan per alliance i say it should be and number of alliances should be limited

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Originally by: Gregoriuses

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Titans should be rare in EVE. 1 titan per alliance i say it should be and number of alliances should be limited

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Originally by: Koala Bare

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Nothing wrong with titans, plenty people fly dreads, dreads melt titans.

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Originally by: NokNok

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- Alarm clock op to take a jammer and jumpbridges down without much fuzz, and then hop into caps again.

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Originally by: s4mp3r0r

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"Hey man, you're mom has a cruise missile".

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Originally by: Billy Merc

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i lol'd @ "Having seen just how easy they are to train for, build or purchase"

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Originally by: KIAEddZ

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Dreads do indeed melt Titans. But something that can warp in 220km away, DD and warp out 15 seconds later, is pretty hard to tackle. Now multiply that by 2 or 3 Titans doing that together in syncronisation, then they become virtually impossible to tackle.

And what about the day when a Dread fleet is melted via DD... is it only then we must look at the problem?

AND, i guess my last point on that POV, is they are so easy to replace, you lose one, there's always a way to get another pretty quickly.

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Originally by: Fitz Chivalry

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especially given that they are now so common that people use them in ridiculous circumstances like RA using one to destroy a 10 man frigate gang we were roaming .

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Originally by: Mizuho Tsukihime

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Originally by: KIAEddZ

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Dreads do indeed melt Titans. But something that can warp in 220km away, DD and warp out 15 seconds later, is pretty hard to tackle. Now multiply that by 2 or 3 Titans doing that together in syncronisation, then they become virtually impossible to tackle.

And what about the day when a Dread fleet is melted via DD... is it only then we must look at the problem?

AND, i guess my last point on that POV, is they are so easy to replace, you lose one, there's always a way to get another pretty quickly.

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ROFL, all i'm seeing is crying "nerf the bigboys alliance titans thread", let me know if its easy for you to replace one if you got your titan blown up =).

Fact its, its not about the weapon in titan, its about how you counter them. The nanos/istab suggestions is good on titan but not the removing DD part of the titan.

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Originally by: Billy Merc

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Edited by: Billy Merc on 08/05/2008 11:28:11
i lol'd @ "Having seen just how easy they are to train for, build or purchase"

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Originally by: HellsRazor

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The MAIN (not the future issue)issue is IMO the fact a TITAN can DD and warp under 30 seconds.

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Originally by: Doctor Oda

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Stuff...
I hate you more and more with every post.

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Originally by: geno effort

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Originally by: Billy Merc

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Edited by: Billy Merc on 08/05/2008 11:28:11
i lol'd @ "Having seen just how easy they are to train for, build or purchase"

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IIRC, you only need Capital Ships V and some racial Titan/Doomsday Operation to go from flying dreads to titans.

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Originally by: CCP Atropos

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Personally I think Amarr ships should consume slaves in a similar way that other ships consume ammunition.

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Originally by: Lance Fighter

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This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route.

Originally by: Setana Manoro

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The number of titan pilots alone on the first page against this ideea is truly interesting. As is the fact that there are 70 titans accounted for in-game, with only 5 dead so far. Number of sov4 systems has also dramatically increased. I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of next year we would have 300 titans in game at the current pace.

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Originally by: Kay Han

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I was always under the impression, that titans are some kind of a Status symbol. That they should be rare ofc.

But atm, they are way to common.
So i agree, a change is needed. But what kind isnt up to me to decide.

But the day i see 10 Titans in one system, is the day i¦ll pull back from 0.0, cause then its just plain stupid to be there anymore.

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Originally by: Delichon

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Originally by: NokNok

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- Alarm clock op to take a jammer and jumpbridges down without much fuzz, and then hop into caps again.

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I personally don't know anything about Titans, but it looks like Alarm Clock (c) would be the main winning factor in a few months. Since it does not look like hamsters are getting more fit any time soon, the alliance to field the most pilots (BS/caps/supercaps) exactly when it is required would be the strongest.

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Originally by: Lord WarATron

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Originally by: Fitz Chivalry

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especially given that they are now so common that people use them in ridiculous circumstances like RA using one to destroy a 10 man frigate gang we were roaming .

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If they did not use the titan, then they could have done a logon trap, used 100man blob or any number of "unfair" tactics that alliance warfare involves to kill that 10 man gang. When I fly solo around hostile space, the minimum ratio people use to engage me is around 5-1 otherwise they just logoff or dock up. Its not fair but then again, its never meant to be fair. Its meant to be effective.

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Originally by: s4mp3r0r

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"Hey man, you're mom has a cruise missile".

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Originally by: Crax McGee

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Originally by: Setana Manoro

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The number of titan pilots alone on the first page against this ideea is truly interesting. As is the fact that there are 70 titans accounted for in-game, with only 5 dead so far. Number of sov4 systems has also dramatically increased. I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of next year we would have 300 titans in game at the current pace.

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i think titans will be the way motherships are now by winter this year.. which would mean alliances like Tri would be able 2 pop a cap fleet with titans :(

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Originally by: Setana Manoro

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Edited by: Setana Manoro on 08/05/2008 12:11:29

Originally by: Kay Han

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I was always under the impression, that titans are some kind of a Status symbol. That they should be rare ofc.

But atm, they are way to common.
So i agree, a change is needed. But what kind isnt up to me to decide.

But the day i see 10 Titans in one system, is the day i¦ll pull back from 0.0, cause then its just plain stupid to be there anymore.

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In the defense of Delve, BoB had 6-8 titans in the same system, i can't remember in which fight.
10 in the same system, it is not that far away.

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Originally by: CCP Atropos

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Personally I think Amarr ships should consume slaves in a similar way that other ships consume ammunition.

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Originally by: Fitz Chivalry

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Titans were suppposed to be incredibly rare, difficult to obtain and to be used to turn the tide in huge epic fleet battles, now they are used to pop small roaming gangs.

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Originally by: Ver0nik

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make titans able to scramble and web other titans.

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Originally by: Centuri

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Originally by: Fitz Chivalry

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Titans were suppposed to be incredibly rare, difficult to obtain and to be used to turn the tide in huge epic fleet battles, now they are used to pop small roaming gangs.

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That's the problem. Titans are not dying because most titan pilots or alliance don't have the balls to use them. The alliances that use them properly in huge battles are the ones that invariably have lost them so far. Therefore I put forward the idea to give titans a "Ball Growing Vat Bay" where they could grow themselves enough balls to actually risk their titans.

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Originally by: Fitz Chivalry

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Yes but people need 5 to 1 odds to fight you because you are so awesome

Titans were suppposed to be incredibly rare, difficult to obtain and to be used to turn the tide in huge epic fleet battles, now they are used to pop small roaming gangs.

We have and do happily take our gangs into station systems of 100+ and expect to get blobbed but think that we can get some good kills or at least some good fun out of it, I dont have a problem fighting outnumbered, but if you are faced with a real chance that every time you enter a bubbled station system someone is going to warp a titan in and dd the grid then it soon gets a bit meh.

edt: changing choice of smiley.

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Originally by: Kalissa

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The only area in which I think Titans would need nerfing is in the area of cyno jammers. Lets face it most big alliances now have multiple titans, all you need is a few at a cyno jammer and you have won the fight, the enemy will never ever be able to take the system. Wouldnt matter if the enemy brought 300 people and your fleet was just 5 strong, if they were titans you've won.

I would make it to that a DD could not be set off on the same grid as an onlined cyno jammer. Lets face it though there are far more Titans in game than CCP estimated there would be and it's only a matter of time until Titans get hit by the nerf bat, and I suspect they'll do more to them than I think it warranted.

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Originally by: Fizzy Logic

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The DD shouldn't be removed, but its mechanics certainly need looking at.

e.g. Keep the same penalties/requirements as current system, but have 2 modes, Open Mode DD does same racial damages as current except it is proportional to signature radius. Therefore BS and Caps take full damage down to interceptors/ frig hull taking minimal damage. Similar to Bombs.

Focused Mode makes the full force of the DD focused down onto a single ship, in most cases a capital ship. Damage should be much greater (x10 or more) in this mode making the titan an anti cap/supercap weapon. Probably some holes in my logic though (use against POS) :)

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Originally by: Lance Fighter

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This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route.

Originally by: Rebellion

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In Greek mythology, the Titans were greater even than the gods. They ruled their universe with absolute power! Well that football field out there tonight, that's our universe. Let's rule it like Titans!

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Originally by: Lance Fighter

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This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route.

Originally by: Kalissa

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Edited by: Kalissa on 08/05/2008 12:27:01
The only area in which I think Titans would need nerfing is in the area of cyno jammers. Lets face it most big alliances now have multiple titans, all you need is a few at a cyno jammer and you have won the fight, the enemy will never ever be able to take the system. Wouldnt matter if the enemy brought 300 people and your fleet was just 5 strong, if they were titans you've won.

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Originally by: LUKEC

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Originally by: Kalissa

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The only area in which I think Titans would need nerfing is in the area of cyno jammers. Lets face it most big alliances now have multiple titans, all you need is a few at a cyno jammer and you have won the fight, the enemy will never ever be able to take the system. Wouldnt matter if the enemy brought 300 people and your fleet was just 5 strong, if they were titans you've won.

I would make it to that a DD could not be set off on the same grid as an onlined cyno jammer. Lets face it though there are far more Titans in game than CCP estimated there would be and it's only a matter of time until Titans get hit by the nerf bat, and I suspect they'll do more to them than I think it warranted.

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If they have < 20 titans, you can probably have alarmclock op and knock down jammer before they know what hit them. Knocking head into wall won't do it, though.

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Originally by: LUKEC

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Originally by: Kalissa

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The only area in which I think Titans would need nerfing is in the area of cyno jammers. Lets face it most big alliances now have multiple titans, all you need is a few at a cyno jammer and you have won the fight, the enemy will never ever be able to take the system. Wouldnt matter if the enemy brought 300 people and your fleet was just 5 strong, if they were titans you've won.

I would make it to that a DD could not be set off on the same grid as an onlined cyno jammer. Lets face it though there are far more Titans in game than CCP estimated there would be and it's only a matter of time until Titans get hit by the nerf bat, and I suspect they'll do more to them than I think it warranted.

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If they have < 20 titans, you can probably have alarmclock op and knock down jammer before they know what hit them. Knocking head into wall won't do it, though.

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Originally by: Crax McGee

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Originally by: HellsRazor

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The MAIN (not the future issue)issue is IMO the fact a TITAN can DD and warp under 30 seconds.

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future issue is a more inportant issue tho and 1 that needs to be addressed today, hope ur the original ownder Hell <3

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Originally by: Kalissa

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Originally by: LUKEC

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Originally by: Kalissa

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The only area in which I think Titans would need nerfing is in the area of cyno jammers. Lets face it most big alliances now have multiple titans, all you need is a few at a cyno jammer and you have won the fight, the enemy will never ever be able to take the system. Wouldnt matter if the enemy brought 300 people and your fleet was just 5 strong, if they were titans you've won.

I would make it to that a DD could not be set off on the same grid as an onlined cyno jammer. Lets face it though there are far more Titans in game than CCP estimated there would be and it's only a matter of time until Titans get hit by the nerf bat, and I suspect they'll do more to them than I think it warranted.

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If they have < 20 titans, you can probably have alarmclock op and knock down jammer before they know what hit them. Knocking head into wall won't do it, though.

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No I dont think alarmclock ops are the answer. The majority of people in eve wont take the game to that kinda meta level and it'd be a pretty sad state of affairs for Eve if the only way of taking systems ended up being that setting your alarm clock was the only way to do it. Besides what if you ever needed to get reinforcements into the system? Once the enemy is aware, what you got is all you're gonna get. The cyno jammer by definition is somewhere where large amounts of Battleships will end up firing on the jammer, if the defender is good enough to fight them off with their own ships or pos gunners then fine, but not by sitting multiple titans next to the jammer.

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Originally by: K'Bar

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Before CCP nerfs, adds, or changes another ship, mod, and space particle they need to work on one thing and one thing only, the lag. So fu~k the Titan, fix the lag! Scr~w the pretty ships, fix the lag! Forget about adding new mods, fix the lag! I'm tired of not being able to turn on and off a mod during battle. I'm tired of reading the forums to see if I lived or died during a battle. You want to make the game better, then fix the lag!!! That's it, one thing to work on, nothing else.

/me kick's the dog and storms off

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Originally by: Lance Fighter

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This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route.

Originally by: darkseed

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I do however want the DD in a hostile pos bubble see adressed.

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Originally by: Doosh Bagge

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Originally by: darkseed

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I do however want the DD in a hostile pos bubble see adressed.

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This.

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Originally by: Anna Valerios

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Originally by: ElrondMD

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Titans dont matter, its titans in Cyno Jammed systems that matter.

Simple solution. Make a doomsday not work in a jammed system.

fixed.

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Yes cos we didnt kill Oort with a bs fleet, 3 dreads are on the mail as far as I can see and they warped in as he was in armor.

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Originally by: mama guru

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Originally by: Anna Valerios

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Originally by: ElrondMD

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Titans dont matter, its titans in Cyno Jammed systems that matter.

Simple solution. Make a doomsday not work in a jammed system.

fixed.

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Yes cos we didnt kill Oort with a bs fleet, 3 dreads are on the mail as far as I can see and they warped in as he was in armor.

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Yes but Oort didnt have the comfort of a cyno jammer and 6 other titans on the grid to get rid of that pesky BS fleet and the associated pods/reinforcements.

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Originally by: mama guru

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Originally by: Anna Valerios

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Originally by: ElrondMD

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Titans dont matter, its titans in Cyno Jammed systems that matter.

Simple solution. Make a doomsday not work in a jammed system.

fixed.

---

Yes cos we didnt kill Oort with a bs fleet, 3 dreads are on the mail as far as I can see and they warped in as he was in armor.

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Yes but Oort didnt have the comfort of a cyno jammer and 6 other titans on the grid to get rid of that pesky BS fleet and the associated pods/reinforcements.

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Originally by: mama guru

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Originally by: Anna Valerios

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Originally by: ElrondMD

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Titans dont matter, its titans in Cyno Jammed systems that matter.

Simple solution. Make a doomsday not work in a jammed system.

fixed.

---

Yes cos we didnt kill Oort with a bs fleet, 3 dreads are on the mail as far as I can see and they warped in as he was in armor.

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Yes but Oort didnt have the comfort of a cyno jammer and 6 other titans on the grid to get rid of that pesky BS fleet and the associated pods/reinforcements.

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• Stacking Doomsdays (4+)


• Cyno Jammers

Originally by: Brunswick2

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Cyno Jammers -- Something that can only be attacked by sub-capitals + something that can easily obliterate fleets of sub-capitals. No way you can't say that's a problem.

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Originally by: LUKEC

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Originally by: Kalissa

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The only area in which I think Titans would need nerfing is in the area of cyno jammers. Lets face it most big alliances now have multiple titans, all you need is a few at a cyno jammer and you have won the fight, the enemy will never ever be able to take the system. Wouldnt matter if the enemy brought 300 people and your fleet was just 5 strong, if they were titans you've won.

I would make it to that a DD could not be set off on the same grid as an onlined cyno jammer. Lets face it though there are far more Titans in game than CCP estimated there would be and it's only a matter of time until Titans get hit by the nerf bat, and I suspect they'll do more to them than I think it warranted.

---

If they have < 20 titans, you can probably have alarmclock op and knock down jammer before they know what hit them. Knocking head into wall won't do it, though.

---

Originally by: mama guru

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Originally by: LUKEC

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Originally by: Kalissa

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The only area in which I think Titans would need nerfing is in the area of cyno jammers. Lets face it most big alliances now have multiple titans, all you need is a few at a cyno jammer and you have won the fight, the enemy will never ever be able to take the system. Wouldnt matter if the enemy brought 300 people and your fleet was just 5 strong, if they were titans you've won.

I would make it to that a DD could not be set off on the same grid as an onlined cyno jammer. Lets face it though there are far more Titans in game than CCP estimated there would be and it's only a matter of time until Titans get hit by the nerf bat, and I suspect they'll do more to them than I think it warranted.

---

If they have < 20 titans, you can probably have alarmclock op and knock down jammer before they know what hit them. Knocking head into wall won't do it, though.

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If they have 20ish titans they will have atleast 3 avavible at all times

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Originally by: darkseed

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Edited by: darkseed on 08/05/2008 13:56:57

Originally by: Brunswick2

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Cyno Jammers -- Something that can only be attacked by sub-capitals + something that can easily obliterate fleets of sub-capitals. No way you can't say that's a problem.

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Cyno jammers are really easy to take down, you just need a small BS fleet (20-30) with some logistic support.

Also u do not need a large BS fleet or 400+ or a large capital fleet to kill a titan.

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Originally by: Lord WarATron

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Edited by: Lord WarATron on 08/05/2008 13:48:46

Originally by: mama guru

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Originally by: Anna Valerios

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Originally by: ElrondMD

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Titans dont matter, its titans in Cyno Jammed systems that matter.

Simple solution. Make a doomsday not work in a jammed system.

fixed.

---

Yes cos we didnt kill Oort with a bs fleet, 3 dreads are on the mail as far as I can see and they warped in as he was in armor.

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Yes but Oort didnt have the comfort of a cyno jammer and 6 other titans on the grid to get rid of that pesky BS fleet and the associated pods/reinforcements.

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You are aware that Oort was killed in a system that had a Cynojammer(disabled though) and multiple titans in it?

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Originally by: Dianabolic

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you're really letting on how little of a life you have here, mama.

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Originally by: mama guru

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The only scenario when a titan is "overpowerd" is imo when there are more then 1 of them combined with a cyno jammer in a prepared defensive position. I.E NOL-M9 for instance.

Now i dont know the details about that engagement but im fairly certain he did not have a bunch of ship ready to jump in and save him when he was in a pinch either, correct me if im wrong.

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Originally by: Yaay

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Edited by: Yaay on 08/05/2008 14:04:42

Change carrier/mom/titan use, make them actual stations and anchorable. I have no issues with their firepower or their fighter use. I have huge issues with their warp capabilities.

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Originally by: Dianabolic

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DD shouldn't be removed.

It should be changed.

Oh, and having artificial limits is far more "game breaking" than NOT having them.

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Originally by: Anna Valerios

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No. Next stupid post please!

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Originally by: Dianabolic

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DD shouldn't be removed.

It should be changed.

Oh, and having artificial limits is far more "game breaking" than NOT having them.

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Originally by: Swamp Ziro

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Originally by: Dianabolic

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DD shouldn't be removed.

It should be changed.

Oh, and having artificial limits is far more "game breaking" than NOT having them.

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Man I'm going to quote the living **** out of this post, thanks diana

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Originally by: darkseed

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Originally by: mama guru

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The only scenario when a titan is "overpowerd" is imo when there are more then 1 of them combined with a cyno jammer in a prepared defensive position. I.E NOL-M9 for instance.

Now i dont know the details about that engagement but im fairly certain he did not have a bunch of ship ready to jump in and save him when he was in a pinch either, correct me if im wrong.

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1. the jammer in NOL- was down at that time.
2. the engagement occured at a set trap by them, they had a goon carrier 250km outside of the pos as bait, we warped in half out fleet and got DDD by Jabin & Oort, Oort was tackled by one of our HIC's and Jabin ran off (logoffsky), the rest of our fleet than jumped on Oort and killed him (BS fleet).

so.... your corrected.

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Originally by: TroNaaR

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Fix the DD in a pos bubble, thats bullcrap. Or better yet, make the pos's work off standings.

Thanks!

ps.
Free Dastommy79 in '08

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Originally by: Scavok

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Edited by: Scavok on 08/05/2008 14:48:47
They've taken the majority of low stakes large scale combat out of the game, fights that just about anyone considers fun. They've encouraged dread and carrier use, and capital fights are probably the enjoyable experience in 0.0, but they're still pretty rare partly because of cyno jammers, and partly because of dreadnought mechanics. The combat style of dreads breaks it down to almost being entirely about numbers, so even less talented FCs know when they have no chance, and losing usually means you lose nearly everything. When you can just warp out when things don't go your way people are willing to take risks.

DD's being nerfed in some fashion is inevitable as a single alliance being capable of instantly killing a capital fleet will ruin the very little fun that's left of large 0.0 combat.

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Originally by: Scavok

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DD's being nerfed in some fashion is inevitable as a single alliance being capable of instantly killing a capital fleet will ruin the very little fun that's left of large 0.0 combat.

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Originally by: nlewis

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jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were

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Originally by: ardik

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For example, you have a cyno jammed system, you park 10 titans at 0 to the jammer. What exactly is the enemy supposed to do against that? I'm open to suggestions.

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Originally by: Scavok

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Roaming groups != large scale combat. Fighting the north in XZH, against V/LV, there were multiple daily fleet battles with hundreds of people. It was an absolute blast compared to pvp today, where if you expose fleets that large outside of a cyno jammer you either face a much stronger fleet that you're very unlikely to beat, or you're going to get DD'd until their fleet can beat you.

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Originally by: Scavok

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And capital combat is entirely about numbers. What other reason is there for how rare actual fights are? The vast majority of capital pvp is completely one-sided ganks that take place no different than your fabled op a couple months ago. When the numbers are close there are a million things to consider, but if one side has 30 dreads and the other has 50, the 50 will win 99% of the time. You get 30 battleships vs 50 battleships, the 50 certainly have an advantage, but the outcome is much less certain.

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Originally by: Dianabolic

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You're wrong. I'll take 30 caps in to 50 any day, in fact I think we have done, and come out on top the majority of the time.

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Originally by: Dianabolic

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You're wrong. I'll take 30 caps in to 50 any day, in fact I think we have done, and come out on top the majority of the time.

Capital fights aren't just about "siege and stay until you die, or they do" and it's a real shame that someone who should know better is making statements like that.

Numbers help. That is all they do, they are not the deciding factor.

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Originally by: Don Z0LA

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im too lasy to calc, can anyone be arsed to tell how many titans is needed to dd other titan or ms, ie how many dds at same time to pop titan or ms ? :D

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Originally by: Dianabolic

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Were a blast why? Because you were winning, right? Don't sit there and say "whaaa, titans", when the whole reason they are here is so it forces people NOT to use blobs. Some may say that it isn't working, that it only leads to more blobs. Yet I repeat my statement, there are now more roaming / small gang groups than ever and they completely reject titans, pos, capital ships - it's taking a while but titans are actually WORKING.

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Quote:

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You're wrong. I'll take 30 caps in to 50 any day, in fact I think we have done, and come out on top the majority of the time.

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Originally by: Scavok

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:words:

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Originally by: Orange Species

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Originally by: Scavok

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:words:

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Originally by: Gromodzilla

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Have DD do 500.000 damage, BUT have it evenly distributed between all effected hostile ships.

1 ship = 500k damage
10 ships = 50K damage
100 ships = 5K damage

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Originally by: Gromodzilla

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Have DD do 500.000 damage, BUT have it evenly distributed between all effected hostile ships.

1 ship = 500k damage
10 ships = 50K damage
100 ships = 5K damage

The way i see it is titan SHOULD have advantage over small fleet. There is no way a gang of 15-20 ppl be able to do anything against titan, however a fleet of 100-200 ppl should.

So titan pilots still get to set off their DDs and hostiles fleets still get a chance to kill some as multiple titans will have to be used.

You will see more titans dying and some of the pilots wont bother replacing.

P.S. Damage output can be more/less. My 2 cents.

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Originally by: Scavok

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Originally by: Orange Species

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Originally by: Scavok

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:words:

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Originally by: Scavok

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If we were winning goonswarm would be up in XZH. We lost frequently against V/LV, and the only time it wasn't fun was when we would lose after a node crash, but in those days CCP reimbursed ships when they failed so it didn't really matter. I've never found roaming/small stuff very fun. I don't understand the joy people get from ganking some ratting ****** who couldn't cloak fast with 15 hacs. If that's how CCP wants 0.0 combat then that's really unfortunate.

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Originally by: Scavok

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No, you never have and never will. You're also one of the few people in BoB who really has no room to make these kinds of statements considering you were the FC who lost 9 dreads for 0 kills to RA's 15 dreads +9 carriers.

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Originally by: Hans Roaming

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Biggest problem is Titans being able to DD through POS shields, both friendly and hostile. There is simple no fun for either side in that. Have the shield take the damage if need be.

Personally I'd love to see titans have super anti-cap guns on them, imagine seeing them drop on field and hammer your dreads! Much more dramatic and risky than a warp in, DD, then warp out 15 secs later.

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Originally by: Gnulpie

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Originally by: Gromodzilla

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Have DD do 500.000 damage, BUT have it evenly distributed between all effected hostile ships.

1 ship = 500k damage
10 ships = 50K damage
100 ships = 5K damage

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LOL thread winner

DD is thought to be an anti-blob weapon. The suggestion is just so funny. The more ships you bring, the less effective the anti-blob weapon should be? Hehe, yeah. Please more of such ideas!

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Originally by: Shadoo

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There were ways around the titans in Delve BoB fielded, but it required massive numbers and simultanious attacks on outposts.

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Originally by: Shadoo

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If you want to make DDing interesting -- why not add a "siege" element to the device that makes the ship stay in place for a period of time. And to make it really interesting -- any DD activation disables the cynojammer in system for the 30min onlining period .

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Originally by: Shadoo

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I can understand the BoB point of view on this having invested so much isk into Titans. However, you guys MUST agree there's something a bit off with the current rate the Titans are flying out the oven and the way they are being used (not nessesarily by BoB).
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However, without DD -- Titan is definately not worth the current investment made in them. So you can't just remove it. Titans either need a role change or a way to defend itself against dictors & hictors.

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Originally by: ardik

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Not really, bob would bridge them around and coupled with POS timers the only thing you achived was spreading your forces thin.

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Originally by: Dianabolic

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Originally by: ardik

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Not really, bob would bridge them around and coupled with POS timers the only thing you achived was spreading your forces thin.

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But but but, I thought there was a cynojammer in every system, how can this be?

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Originally by: Dianabolic

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Originally by: Scavok

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If we were winning goonswarm would be up in XZH. We lost frequently against V/LV, and the only time it wasn't fun was when we would lose after a node crash, but in those days CCP reimbursed ships when they failed so it didn't really matter. I've never found roaming/small stuff very fun. I don't understand the joy people get from ganking some ratting ****** who couldn't cloak fast with 15 hacs. If that's how CCP wants 0.0 combat then that's really unfortunate.

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Shame, our last roam bagged a mothership. Guess you need to improve a bit?

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Quote:

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Originally by: Scavok

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No, you never have and never will. You're also one of the few people in BoB who really has no room to make these kinds of statements considering you were the FC who lost 9 dreads for 0 kills to RA's 15 dreads +9 carriers.

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Have, will and do - so what if I've been hotdropped and lost a load of caps, Scavok? We laugh about it and get on with it, you cry and quit, amirite?

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Originally by: Nick Curso

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Scavok the roam originally had 30 ppl in crusers and below who kept the MS tackled, the rest of the fleet hot tailed it from PR to fountain something like 20 jumps to kill it once we were called for.

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Originally by: Scavok

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most recent words

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Originally by: ardik

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Originally by: Nick Curso

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Scavok the roam originally had 30 ppl in crusers and below who kept the MS tackled, the rest of the fleet hot tailed it from PR to fountain something like 20 jumps to kill it once we were called for.

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Ugh, so you just pushed as many ppl into one system as you could, with little effort!!!!

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Originally by: Rochel Hakiri

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Edited by: Rochel Hakiri on 08/05/2008 15:25:39
CCP made the misstake of releasing BPO's instead of BPC's.

^They should convert all Titan BPO's to a 1 run BPC, so then it really start to hurt if you lose a Titan.

But I guess it's already too late

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Originally by: Nick Curso

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Originally by: ardik

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Originally by: Nick Curso

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Scavok the roam originally had 30 ppl in crusers and below who kept the MS tackled, the rest of the fleet hot tailed it from PR to fountain something like 20 jumps to kill it once we were called for.

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Ugh, so you just pushed as many ppl into one system as you could, with little effort!!!!

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yep a whole 120 ppl into a hostile cyno jammed system and killed a super cap with a support fleet.

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Originally by: ardik

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Originally by: Nick Curso

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Originally by: ardik

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Originally by: Nick Curso

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Scavok the roam originally had 30 ppl in crusers and below who kept the MS tackled, the rest of the fleet hot tailed it from PR to fountain something like 20 jumps to kill it once we were called for.

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Ugh, so you just pushed as many ppl into one system as you could, with little effort!!!!

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yep a whole 120 ppl into a hostile cyno jammed system and killed a super cap with a support fleet.

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Ok, I see I'll have to be blunt here: this totally awesome roam you had here which was totally fun and everyone should try out, happened to be against the one single alliance in the game without a titan. If BRUCE actually had a titan they'd warp it in after like 5 mins, DD your gang from 200km out, warp out 10 seconds later while laughing at the silly, lil' bobbits in pods.

This is exactly the thing BoB has done against as little as SOLO people roaming around their space.

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Originally by: Yaay

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Originally by: Scavok

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most recent words

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anyone who argues that numbers currently do, or ever have dictated the outcome of fights are clueless.

Does that mean they aren't a factor, no. But numbers do not win fights.


and don't be a tard who comments on 50 v 200, be realistic.

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Originally by: Scavok

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There's much less actual fun, large scale combat taking place because of titans. That doesn't seem good to me.

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Originally by: Nick Curso

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Originally by: ardik

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Originally by: Nick Curso

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Originally by: ardik

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Originally by: Nick Curso

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Scavok the roam originally had 30 ppl in crusers and below who kept the MS tackled, the rest of the fleet hot tailed it from PR to fountain something like 20 jumps to kill it once we were called for.

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Ugh, so you just pushed as many ppl into one system as you could, with little effort!!!!

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yep a whole 120 ppl into a hostile cyno jammed system and killed a super cap with a support fleet.

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Ok, I see I'll have to be blunt here: this totally awesome roam you had here which was totally fun and everyone should try out, happened to be against the one single alliance in the game without a titan. If BRUCE actually had a titan they'd warp it in after like 5 mins, DD your gang from 200km out, warp out 10 seconds later while laughing at the silly, lil' bobbits in pods.

This is exactly the thing BoB has done against as little as SOLO people roaming around their space.

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So whats stopping them?

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Originally by: Dianabolic

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Originally by: Scavok

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There's much less actual fun, large scale combat taking place because of titans. That doesn't seem good to me.

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And we disagree, perhaps you should just have less blues?

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Originally by: ardik

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Originally by: Dianabolic

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Originally by: Scavok

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There's much less actual fun, large scale combat taking place because of titans. That doesn't seem good to me.

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And we disagree, perhaps you should just have less blues?

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hey were are those killboard links you promised? you can mail them to me in game if you will ;-*

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Originally by: ardik

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If BRUCE actually had a titan they'd warp it in after like 5 mins, DD your gang from 200km out, warp out 10 seconds later while laughing at the silly, lil' bobbits in pods.

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Originally by: Dianabolic

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Originally by: ardik

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Originally by: Dianabolic

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Originally by: Scavok

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There's much less actual fun, large scale combat taking place because of titans. That doesn't seem good to me.

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And we disagree, perhaps you should just have less blues?

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hey were are those killboard links you promised? you can mail them to me in game if you will ;-*

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I didn't promise you any links, ardik, you asked for them and I ignored you.

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Originally by: Dianabolic

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Originally by: Scavok

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There's much less actual fun, large scale combat taking place because of titans. That doesn't seem good to me.

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And we disagree, perhaps you should just have less blues?

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Originally by: thoth foc

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Originally by: ardik

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If BRUCE actually had a titan they'd warp it in after like 5 mins, DD your gang from 200km out, warp out 10 seconds later while laughing at the silly, lil' bobbits in pods.

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Like goonies did... and MC did... and all the other hostile (to bob) titans do against us?

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Originally by: Dianabolic

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Originally by: Scavok

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There's much less actual fun, large scale combat taking place because of titans. That doesn't seem good to me.

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And we disagree, perhaps you should just have less blues?

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Originally by: Yaay

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Originally by: Dianabolic

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Originally by: Scavok

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There's much less actual fun, large scale combat taking place because of titans. That doesn't seem good to me.

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And we disagree, perhaps you should just have less blues?

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QFT.... people just don't understand, naps were the number 1 reason titan numbers got out of hand in the first place.

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Originally by: Aeon Yakati

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I vote for removal of all Titans except the first 10 ones that were built. As a titan gets killed, one more can be built.

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Originally by: Shadoo

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If you recall, QY6 was taken because a simultanious assault took place in several systems at the same time.

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Quote:

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There are still places you can roam to with 80 people and have a good fun fight. <3 BRUCE.

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Originally by: Yaay

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Originally by: Dianabolic

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Originally by: Scavok

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There's much less actual fun, large scale combat taking place because of titans. That doesn't seem good to me.

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And we disagree, perhaps you should just have less blues?

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QFT.... people just don't understand, naps were the number 1 reason titan numbers got out of hand in the first place.

Imagine how many Titans or even MoMs the north would have if they didn't go a year and a half w/o any significant war on their doorsteps. Remember, MC stopped well short of MM space.

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Originally by: Scavok

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Originally by: Yaay

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Originally by: Dianabolic

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Originally by: Scavok

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There's much less actual fun, large scale combat taking place because of titans. That doesn't seem good to me.

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And we disagree, perhaps you should just have less blues?

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QFT.... people just don't understand, naps were the number 1 reason titan numbers got out of hand in the first place.

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Not really, everyone still had their enemies. Sov 4 was the reason numbers took off. BoB had no trouble popping out titans even at times that we had free reign over their primetime. I can't imagine Tri, MM, RZR, blah blah, not threatening each other's cap yards if they were vulnerable.

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Originally by: Scavok

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Originally by: Dianabolic

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Originally by: Scavok

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There's much less actual fun, large scale combat taking place because of titans. That doesn't seem good to me.

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And we disagree, perhaps you should just have less blues?

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And coming from the alliance with the most titans, I'm not surprised in the least.

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Originally by: KIAEddZ

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There has been a lot of discussion about this, in general chat etc. But I'd like to bring a sister discussion here, from the point of the Corporations and Alliances that inhabit 0.0 space.

Its no secret KIA own a Titan, and we will be getting another couple in the coming months. They are becoming more and more common and a decent sell market, with 1 available most of the time, has sprung up.

Having seen just how easy they are to train for, build or purchase and use, I am a firm believer that the the DD part of their capabilities must be removed from the game asap. We are well over 50 Titans now, and that number is accelerating, as people become more adept at building them, the process lines for those with secure space are becoming more efficient, and thus more are arriving, it almost seems weekly now..

And despite that, they aren't dieing. They are too easy to use, too easy to protect (don't get me started on the POS Bubble DD'ing)... it is simple to make a Titan align and warp in sub 15 seconds, and still give it a 10+k DPS tank, even with the basic of officer mods, a full setup which would admittedly cost a lot, could have you warping in 10 seconds and tanking 15k+ dps...

Killing a Titan isnt easy enough for the damage they can do, and as the game begins to fill faster and faster with them, I for one am very worried on how this will play out. I remmeber when people argued that something costing 50 billion to build, shouldnt be easy to kill.... well 50 Billion is chump change to the big guys.

Would the likes of BoB and Ra/AAA/Goons etc like to see some of their roles removed from the game, or do they see their advantage, which grows every day, over other players too much to give up?

Lets be honest, the day of 20 Titans on a battlefield is not far away.. thats 1.5ish million raw damage

How long before popping a carrier fleet will be effected by a mass Titan DD?

It feels like a race, first team to 30 or so Titans wins Eve...

When someone is getting close, can I join your team

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Originally by: Yaay

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Edited by: Yaay on 08/05/2008 17:04:48

Originally by: Scavok

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Originally by: Yaay

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Originally by: Dianabolic

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Originally by: Scavok

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are you even aware of the state of the north since bob left?

Right now, 2 main powers are going up against 8-9 to try and end the joke that is those monkeys. Its total nap land and they are struggling at best to move on us, just like they nearly collapsed when TCF invaded about 1.5 years ago. It's the south 2.0 but w/o an equal of BoB doing the work up here to hold space. I think more than anything, what does that say about the power of numbers, and the will of nappers.

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i was under impression that 2 main powers have some more by their side, and i find it lame to label your alliance and allies as monkeys.

before others start flamewar this was a joke! but definately MM is 1 of main powers, second one choose yourself :)