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mama guru Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.08 13:56:00 - [121] Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: Kalissa The only area in which I think Titans would need nerfing is in the area of cyno jammers. Lets face it most big alliances now have multiple titans, all you need is a few at a cyno jammer and you have won the fight, the enemy will never ever be able to take the system. Wouldnt matter if the enemy brought 300 people and your fleet was just 5 strong, if they were titans you've won. I would make it to that a DD could not be set off on the same grid as an onlined cyno jammer. Lets face it though there are far more Titans in game than CCP estimated there would be and it's only a matter of time until Titans get hit by the nerf bat, and I suspect they'll do more to them than I think it warranted. If they have < 20 titans, you can probably have alarmclock op and knock down jammer before they know what hit them. Knocking head into wall won't do it, though. If they have 20ish titans they will have atleast 3 avavible at all times EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak.
Aeon Yakati Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.08 13:57:00 - [122] I vote for removal of all Titans except the first 10 ones that were built. As a titan gets killed, one more can be built. __________ Oh, you didn't think I forgot about you, did you?
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.08 13:58:00 - [123] Originally by: mama guru Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: Kalissa The only area in which I think Titans would need nerfing is in the area of cyno jammers. Lets face it most big alliances now have multiple titans, all you need is a few at a cyno jammer and you have won the fight, the enemy will never ever be able to take the system. Wouldnt matter if the enemy brought 300 people and your fleet was just 5 strong, if they were titans you've won. I would make it to that a DD could not be set off on the same grid as an onlined cyno jammer. Lets face it though there are far more Titans in game than CCP estimated there would be and it's only a matter of time until Titans get hit by the nerf bat, and I suspect they'll do more to them than I think it warranted. If they have < 20 titans, you can probably have alarmclock op and knock down jammer before they know what hit them. Knocking head into wall won't do it, though. If they have 20ish titans they will have atleast 3 avavible at all times you're really letting on how little of a life you have here, mama. Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Arendis The Phoenix Confederacy Raging Phoenix Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.08 14:02:00 - [124] Originally by: darkseed Edited by: darkseed on 08/05/2008 13:56:57 Originally by: Brunswick2 Cyno Jammers -- Something that can only be attacked by sub-capitals + something that can easily obliterate fleets of sub-capitals. No way you can't say that's a problem. Cyno jammers are really easy to take down, you just need a small BS fleet (20-30) with some logistic support. Also u do not need a large BS fleet or 400+ or a large capital fleet to kill a titan. 20-30bs? you place jammers on mining posses? a decent deathstar will shred 30 bs before you even target the damn thing
Yaay Game-Over Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.08 14:03:00 - [125] Edited by: Yaay on 08/05/2008 14:04:42 I think what's sad is to date, there are still only a handful of people who even actively risk their titans. I mean ffs, the north has at least 10, and we struggle to find one to kill if we're lucky 3 things: fix the economy, god knows it's borked. Make them harder /more time consuming to build as the economy gets fixed. remove titan's nano/speed ability. A titan warping less that 1 min should not happen Change carrier/mom/titan use, make them actual stations and anchorable. I have no issues with their firepower or their fighter use. I have huge issues with their warp capabilities. If I can find the old post I wrote, I came up with a solution to make these ships fall more adequately into the roles the are named for. As for Cyno jammed systems, while I agree taking a jammer down isn't hard on it's own, it should still require only fleet support to defend. Give it more HP, give guns less HP, dunno, but something. Problem with this game at the moment is that there's so many bad or flat out wrong features that are influencing patches/updates rather than being fixed themselves. The walls are caving in on themselves. Lets face it, Sov was the worst idea since Titans, it makes absolutely no sense. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=619019IT'S THE ECONOMY STUPID
mama guru Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.08 14:05:00 - [126] Edited by: mama guru on 08/05/2008 14:09:34 Originally by: Lord WarATron Edited by: Lord WarATron on 08/05/2008 13:48:46 Originally by: mama guru Originally by: Anna Valerios Originally by: ElrondMD Titans dont matter, its titans in Cyno Jammed systems that matter. Simple solution. Make a doomsday not work in a jammed system. fixed. Yes cos we didnt kill Oort with a bs fleet, 3 dreads are on the mail as far as I can see and they warped in as he was in armor. Yes but Oort didnt have the comfort of a cyno jammer and 6 other titans on the grid to get rid of that pesky BS fleet and the associated pods/reinforcements. You are aware that Oort was killed in a system that had a Cynojammer(disabled though) and multiple titans in it? Thats not the point and im well aware of that. However, Oort was not defending. He was not sitting at a cyno jammer with his titan friends waiting to hit the F1 key to delete the hostile fleet. Sure caps could have jumped in to kill him/save him. But that doesnt matter, because in that respect titans are not overpowerd. The only scenario when a titan is "overpowerd" is imo when there are more then 1 of them combined with a cyno jammer in a prepared defensive position. I.E NOL-M9 for instance. Now i dont know the details about that engagement but im fairly certain he did not have a bunch of ship ready to jump in and save him when he was in a pinch either, correct me if im wrong. Originally by: Dianabolic you're really letting on how little of a life you have here, mama. Different Timezones, account sharing etc. Sure at all times may be an overstatement, but i think we both know that when your spies smell an incoming attack you can get some online in a rather short notice.(keep in mind we're talking about the future BOB/whatever with some 20 individual titan pilots) EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak.
darkseed Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.05.08 14:22:00 - [127] Originally by: mama guru The only scenario when a titan is "overpowerd" is imo when there are more then 1 of them combined with a cyno jammer in a prepared defensive position. I.E NOL-M9 for instance. Now i dont know the details about that engagement but im fairly certain he did not have a bunch of ship ready to jump in and save him when he was in a pinch either, correct me if im wrong. 1. the jammer in NOL- was down at that time. 2. the engagement occured at a set trap by them, they had a goon carrier 250km outside of the pos as bait, we warped in half out fleet and got DDD by Jabin & Oort, Oort was tackled by one of our HIC's and Jabin ran off (logoffsky), the rest of our fleet than jumped on Oort and killed him (BS fleet). so.... your corrected. --- Happy user of CAOD cleaner
Snowcrow Minmatar Lyonesse. KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.08 14:24:00 - [128] Originally by: Yaay Edited by: Yaay on 08/05/2008 14:04:42 Change carrier/mom/titan use, make them actual stations and anchorable. I have no issues with their firepower or their fighter use. I have huge issues with their warp capabilities. i have an idea for this:) http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=766916&page=1
Swamp Ziro GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.08 14:25:00 - [129] Originally by: Dianabolic DD shouldn't be removed. It should be changed. Oh, and having artificial limits is far more "game breaking" than NOT having them. Man I'm going to quote the living **** out of this post, thanks diana
Swamp Ziro GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.08 14:26:00 - [130] Edited by: Swamp Ziro on 08/05/2008 14:26:26 Originally by: Anna Valerios No. Next stupid post please! Originally by: Dianabolic DD shouldn't be removed. It should be changed. Oh, and having artificial limits is far more "game breaking" than NOT having them. no u

Ponderous Thunderstroke Republic War Machine Industries	Posted - 2008.05.08 14:27:00 - [131] All titans in the game should be removed. Well, except for Remedial's titan, which was useless and served no purpose anyways. -- "PT, you are a complete and total jerk." Yes. Yes I am.
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.08 14:29:00 - [132] Originally by: Swamp Ziro Originally by: Dianabolic DD shouldn't be removed. It should be changed. Oh, and having artificial limits is far more "game breaking" than NOT having them. Man I'm going to quote the living **** out of this post, thanks diana I've said this before, I this just proves you need the "mass" in "media" before it gets anywhere :( Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
mama guru Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.05.08 14:33:00 - [133] Originally by: darkseed Originally by: mama guru The only scenario when a titan is "overpowerd" is imo when there are more then 1 of them combined with a cyno jammer in a prepared defensive position. I.E NOL-M9 for instance. Now i dont know the details about that engagement but im fairly certain he did not have a bunch of ship ready to jump in and save him when he was in a pinch either, correct me if im wrong. 1. the jammer in NOL- was down at that time. 2. the engagement occured at a set trap by them, they had a goon carrier 250km outside of the pos as bait, we warped in half out fleet and got DDD by Jabin & Oort, Oort was tackled by one of our HIC's and Jabin ran off (logoffsky), the rest of our fleet than jumped on Oort and killed him (BS fleet). so.... your corrected. Indeed i am, thanks for clearing that up. And i know the jammer was down as was stated earlier in this thread. GBC did well on that kill, the coalition simply failed to spring/plant their trap properly then it seems. EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak.
TroNaaR Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.08 14:34:00 - [134] Fix the DD in a pos bubble, thats bullcrap. Or better yet, make the pos's work off standings. Thanks! ps. Free Dastommy79 in '08
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.08 14:36:00 - [135] Originally by: TroNaaR Fix the DD in a pos bubble, thats bullcrap. Or better yet, make the pos's work off standings. Thanks! ps. Free Dastommy79 in '08 ALLIANCE STANDINGS PLZ TY! Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Scavok UA Industry Red Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.08 14:48:00 - [136] Edited by: Scavok on 08/05/2008 14:48:47 They've taken the majority of low stakes large scale combat out of the game, fights that just about anyone considers fun. They've encouraged dread and carrier use, and capital fights are probably the enjoyable experience in 0.0, but they're still pretty rare partly because of cyno jammers, and partly because of dreadnought mechanics. The combat style of dreads breaks it down to almost being entirely about numbers, so even less talented FCs know when they have no chance, and losing usually means you lose nearly everything. When you can just warp out when things don't go your way people are willing to take risks. DD's being nerfed in some fashion is inevitable as a single alliance being capable of instantly killing a capital fleet will ruin the very little fun that's left of large 0.0 combat.
Randy Foker	Posted - 2008.05.08 14:58:00 - [137] I think the answer to the volume of Titan's being brought into the game will be T2 capital ships. Dreads that can fire twice as quick and with more tank. Another idea would be to create an anti cyno jammer ship. It would need to operate on cyno strength though. Alliances can deploy more than one cyno jammer in a system and then the attacking force will need to get enough anti jammers in to counter them. Titans can ruin the tactical side of the game but there's nothing better than being there when one of them pops.
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.08 14:59:00 - [138] Originally by: Scavok Edited by: Scavok on 08/05/2008 14:48:47 They've taken the majority of low stakes large scale combat out of the game, fights that just about anyone considers fun. They've encouraged dread and carrier use, and capital fights are probably the enjoyable experience in 0.0, but they're still pretty rare partly because of cyno jammers, and partly because of dreadnought mechanics. The combat style of dreads breaks it down to almost being entirely about numbers, so even less talented FCs know when they have no chance, and losing usually means you lose nearly everything. When you can just warp out when things don't go your way people are willing to take risks. DD's being nerfed in some fashion is inevitable as a single alliance being capable of instantly killing a capital fleet will ruin the very little fun that's left of large 0.0 combat. No they haven't, Scavok, or are you ignoring the various roaming groups that are "just fine, thanks"? In fact, there are now MORE roaming groups than there was pre-sov, so I'm a bit confused as to where you think DD has cheesed anyone off? And again, I've gotta say, your claim that "it's all about numbers" is complete hogwash and shows a severe lack of tactical thought. Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.08 14:59:00 - [139] Originally by: Scavok DD's being nerfed in some fashion is inevitable as a single alliance being capable of instantly killing a capital fleet will ruin the very little fun that's left of large 0.0 combat. Who is to say that CCP will not modify caps to be resistant to Doomsdays or even boost Dreads? Every doom and gloom prediction of eve so far has turned out to be rubbish. Speaking of "the little fun that's left", how much fun do you feel tactics like logging off a fleet to avoid combat etc to be? -- Billion Isk Mission
Yorda Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.08 15:00:00 - [140] Damn, look at all those bob members jump to the defense of titans. I find it rather funny that the titan is the only ship in Eve completely useless against itself. Every other ship must commit itself to the grid to do damage, and is a serious threat to its own ship type. Titans are completely worthless against other titans (and even more so vs dreads), only a tiny bit effective against motherships / carriers (they can just deploy sentries or more drones), and is completely designed for taking out supcapitals. With the exception of the certain sniping hacs / bcs Titans are the only ship type specifically designed for taking out ships smaller than themselves, and doing so in mass. I'd personally like to see the doomsday replaced with a modified siege mod, that increased the damage done by more than that of a dread siege mod but still allowed the titans to be remote repped (lets face it, in a large fleet battle they'd be primaried and worthless pretty much every time if they couldn't be remote repped). They have turret slots / turret bonuses allready built into the ship anyway. Originally by: nlewis jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were

Aktivus	Posted - 2008.05.08 15:06:00 - [141] Well, wouldn't a 1B/day titan maintenance cost fix all the issues here ? - alliances wouldnt have many titans... - titans costing 1B/day would be USED - current titan numbers would probably decrease
ardik TunkbwahCorp GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.08 15:07:00 - [142] titans are pretty ***, especially under cyno jammers where the enemy won't have anything other than sub-capitals, which become pretty irrelevant with multiple titans around. For example, you have a cyno jammed system, you park 10 titans at 0 to the jammer. What exactly is the enemy supposed to do against that? I'm open to suggestions. and honestly, every single titan kill so far has been lucky as hell, where everyone goes "heh, that was really dumb of him". I really can't think of a single exception. Even if used solo, properly(sit cloaked, warp in at long range, dd snipe, warp out) then they're next to impossible to kill since they can warp out so quickly. The worst part is that they're really boring though. I can't think of a single example where i saw someone get dd'ed and didn't think that was pretty boring, even if it was hostiles, since then we wouldn't even get a fight.
Gromodzilla Gallente OGF Industries	Posted - 2008.05.08 15:08:00 - [143] Have DD do 500.000 damage, BUT have it evenly distributed between all effected hostile ships. 1 ship = 500k damage 10 ships = 50K damage 100 ships = 5K damage The way i see it is titan SHOULD have advantage over small fleet. There is no way a gang of 15-20 ppl be able to do anything against titan, however a fleet of 100-200 ppl should. So titan pilots still get to set off their DDs and hostiles fleets still get a chance to kill some as multiple titans will have to be used. You will see more titans dying and some of the pilots wont bother replacing. P.S. Damage output can be more/less. My 2 cents.
Astarte Nosferatu Minmatar Canes Pugnaces	Posted - 2008.05.08 15:22:00 - [144] Just make the DD use a special type of fuel, balance it so that one DD costs roughly 10bil isk to use, and you'll have fixed the problem on using a DD on anything less than Capital Ship fleets or really, really big blobs where you know the damage you do with a DD will outweigh the cost of activating it.
Rochel Hakiri principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.05.08 15:23:00 - [145] Edited by: Rochel Hakiri on 08/05/2008 15:25:39 CCP made the misstake of releasing BPO's instead of BPC's. ^They should convert all Titan BPO's to a 1 run BPC, so then it really start to hurt if you lose a Titan. But I guess it's already too late
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.08 15:26:00 - [146] Originally by: ardik For example, you have a cyno jammed system, you park 10 titans at 0 to the jammer. What exactly is the enemy supposed to do against that? I'm open to suggestions. Go attack the other systems that have no titans in Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Red Thunder	Posted - 2008.05.08 15:31:00 - [147] [14:02:23] KIAEddZ > generally KIA pilots will not ever respond to you in local, most will have you blocked by now, and certanly most have local minimised [14:02:36] Endeva > i notice most have local minimised:D [14:02:40] KIAEddZ > Have a good day. nuf said
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.08 15:33:00 - [148] Originally by: Scavok Roaming groups != large scale combat. Fighting the north in XZH, against V/LV, there were multiple daily fleet battles with hundreds of people. It was an absolute blast compared to pvp today, where if you expose fleets that large outside of a cyno jammer you either face a much stronger fleet that you're very unlikely to beat, or you're going to get DD'd until their fleet can beat you. Were a blast why? Because you were winning, right? Don't sit there and say "whaaa, titans", when the whole reason they are here is so it forces people NOT to use blobs. Some may say that it isn't working, that it only leads to more blobs. Yet I repeat my statement, there are now more roaming / small gang groups than ever and they completely reject titans, pos, capital ships - it's taking a while but titans are actually WORKING. Originally by: Scavok And capital combat is entirely about numbers. What other reason is there for how rare actual fights are? The vast majority of capital pvp is completely one-sided ganks that take place no different than your fabled op a couple months ago. When the numbers are close there are a million things to consider, but if one side has 30 dreads and the other has 50, the 50 will win 99% of the time. You get 30 battleships vs 50 battleships, the 50 certainly have an advantage, but the outcome is much less certain. You're wrong. I'll take 30 caps in to 50 any day, in fact I think we have done, and come out on top the majority of the time. Capital fights aren't just about "siege and stay until you die, or they do" and it's a real shame that someone who should know better is making statements like that. Numbers help. That is all they do, they are not the deciding factor. Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
ardik TunkbwahCorp GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.08 15:35:00 - [149] Originally by: Dianabolic You're wrong. I'll take 30 caps in to 50 any day, in fact I think we have done, and come out on top the majority of the time. Oh this is interesting, post fleet battle killboard links
Astarte Nosferatu Minmatar Canes Pugnaces	Posted - 2008.05.08 15:37:00 - [150] Originally by: Dianabolic You're wrong. I'll take 30 caps in to 50 any day, in fact I think we have done, and come out on top the majority of the time. Capital fights aren't just about "siege and stay until you die, or they do" and it's a real shame that someone who should know better is making statements like that. Numbers help. That is all they do, they are not the deciding factor. For once, I have to agree with Diana. Heck I would take 30 caps against 50 just for lulz.



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