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Idaeus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.09 14:31:00 - [421] Originally by: Ghaelsto Kakram There are numerous threads there already. This one just is crammed with political interest. That's the problem with this thread, TBH. If this was any non-mechanics/gameplay thread, I'd gleefully troll the hell out of BoB and friends because they are my space enemies. But this is a gameplay/mechanics discussion in regards to a game that I, and everyone else for that matter, play to entertain themselves (in a forum which isn't really suited for that purpose) and a number of people aren't approaching it like that and discussing it rationally. Part of the reason why people aren't is because CAOD is part of that game (the political/social aspect of said game) and everything here is filled with corporate or alliance bias. Which is why this thread is in the wrong place. All you will get here is: "Nyah, nyah, nyah, We're better then you." "Why don't you lose six regions about it then?"
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.09 14:33:00 - [422] Originally by: Tassi If those things would be special gifts from events, okay, but not this joke. lmao, I can see it now. CCP: "grats bob for winning a doomsday mod" Cryalition: "WHAAAAAAAAAA CHEATZ HAX WHAAAAAAAAAAAA" Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Waagaa Ktlehr Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.09 14:35:00 - [423] Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Except nobody ever filled a system with 1000 pilots UNTIL there were titans. There was no titan around in jv1v, ok there was one in production, but that's about it. Human nature is so that it will exploit any advantage it can get to win. If that means having to pour 1000 people into a system, they will. Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr The fact of the matter is if you make smaller fleets and be 'mindful', each of your fleets will get outblobbed by the guys with the titans one at a time and you'll get DD'd. Then if the lockdown is that severe, hit another place, make your enemy have to move. Or do something about your opsec. Or maybe hit multiple different places. Fleets of that size are not moved quickly, if only due to traffic control. Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Titans are DD'ing small-medium gangs everyday that could be fought instead. Titans are used LESS versus huge blobs precisely because the risk is greater. They will only be used if you have your own blob to realisticly get in there are defend your asset. EVE isn't fair, never been fair. If your enemy can DD your nano or roaming gang, more power to them, next time set up a trap and tackle and kill him. There are pretty good ways to tackle and kill a titan, especially when you set up a trap. Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Whats the point in spliting your force when you need everything you've got to attacking/defend your/their Titan, while simultainiously fighting off their fleet which is trying to accomplish the same thing? Titans are the lense that focuses 80% of the firepower onto one grid. No they are not, human nature is. Even in the Battleship, pre-capital era, most alliances would always blob up in one big fleet. Nothing has changed. And if anything, it's POS and sovereignty mechanics that amplify this. Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Your statement is pure theorycraft and doesn't match with any war involving Titans thus far. It is not, it is speaking from experience with being part of the command of fleet that have multiple titans to their disposal. When the coalition hit NOL, we were ready to defend another place. We took too long to get our fleet to NOL to defend the jammer and the jammer was taken down. The coalition failed to follow through on it. - -
Phrixus Zephyr Prospero Incorperated	Posted - 2008.05.09 14:37:00 - [424] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Except nobody ever filled a system with 1000 pilots UNTIL there were titans. rofl. quoting for future hilarity. First time iirc was JV? LVs baby titan? Other publisiced 1000 pilot events. Shike. Delve/Querious H-something? When CCP capped some system at 800? Etc etc. Titans were heavily involved and a direct cause of the numbers brought to bare in every instance. I'd go search out the system names but it really doesnt matter as you're just diverting attention from what i was actually saying onto some arbitrary comment which holds little relevance to the fact that im right.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.05.09 14:37:00 - [425] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Tassi If those things would be special gifts from events, okay, but not this joke. lmao, I can see it now. CCP: "grats bob for winning a doomsday mod" Cryalition: "WHAAAAAAAAAA CHEATZ HAX WHAAAAAAAAAAAA" Yes, because you have never gotten anything unfairly from CCP.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.05.09 14:39:00 - [426] Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr Edited by: Waagaa Ktlehr on 09/05/2008 14:36:30 Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Except nobody ever filled a system with 1000 pilots UNTIL there were titans. There was no titan around in jv1v, or was Ens/Chow in system? ok there was one in production, but that's about it. Human nature is so that it will exploit any advantage it can get to win. If that means having to pour 1000 people into a system, they will. It was about killing a baby-titan. Think Chow was around as well, not sure though. But even when ASCN and BOB attacked EC- it was about supercaps. A continuous camp of 300-600 people, camping a system for 6 days straight. And why? Because it was the possible buildlocation of a supercap... And you say titans don't cause blobs
Vardemis Jericho Fraction	Posted - 2008.05.09 14:42:00 - [427] Edited by: Vardemis on 09/05/2008 14:42:39 Blobs are the problem of eve, not blobs of Titans or blobs of Carriers or blobs of Battleships. Once that issue is addressed, this whole discussion will go away. When a blob doesn't grant a significant advantage anymore or it is easier to deal with big blobs. (Pretty much the same, but different points of view.) The DDD will be less used, since there will be less blobs worth nuking. Until the blob issue is fixed, the Titan actually needs the DDD, to level the playing field a little. Besides all that, this thread belongs into the game development forum.
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.09 14:42:00 - [428] Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr Edited by: Waagaa Ktlehr on 09/05/2008 14:36:30 Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Except nobody ever filled a system with 1000 pilots UNTIL there were titans. There was no titan around in jv1v, or was Ens/Chow in system? ok there was one in production, but that's about it. Human nature is so that it will exploit any advantage it can get to win. If that means having to pour 1000 people into a system, they will. It was about killing a baby-titan. Think Chow was around as well, not sure though. But even when ASCN and BOB attacked EC- it was about supercaps. A continuous camp of 300-600 people, camping a system for 6 days straight. And why? Because it was the possible buildlocation of a supercap... And you say titans don't cause blobs Titans didn't exist, Malachon, that was all about motherships. F-T was also all about motherships. So I do deduce by your statement that, in fact, titans don't cause blobbing, motherships do! Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.09 14:43:00 - [429] Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Tassi If those things would be special gifts from events, okay, but not this joke. lmao, I can see it now. CCP: "grats bob for winning a doomsday mod" Cryalition: "WHAAAAAAAAAA CHEATZ HAX WHAAAAAAAAAAAA" Yes, because you have never gotten anything unfairly from CCP. Way to miss the point by a country mile. I wonder, Malachon, were you one of those whiners that complained and *****ed when the Miner II bpos were dropped and held it so bitterly close to your heart for so long you stopped seeing straight? Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Tassi Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2008.05.09 14:44:00 - [430] Originally by: Dianabolic lmao, I can see it now. CCP: "grats bob for winning a doomsday mod" Cryalition: "WHAAAAAAAAAA CHEATZ HAX WHAAAAAAAAAAAA" 10 thorax's, anyone?

Digiblast Minmatar The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.05.09 14:46:00 - [431] Originally by: KIAEddZ There has been a lot of discussion about this, in general chat etc. But I'd like to bring a sister discussion here, from the point of the Corporations and Alliances that inhabit 0.0 space. Its no secret KIA own a Titan, and we will be getting another couple in the coming months. They are becoming more and more common and a decent sell market, with 1 available most of the time, has sprung up. Having seen just how easy they are to train for, build or purchase and use, I am a firm believer that the the DD part of their capabilities must be removed from the game asap. We are well over 50 Titans now, and that number is accelerating, as people become more adept at building them, the process lines for those with secure space are becoming more efficient, and thus more are arriving, it almost seems weekly now.. And despite that, they aren't dieing. They are too easy to use, too easy to protect (don't get me started on the POS Bubble DD'ing)... it is simple to make a Titan align and warp in sub 15 seconds, and still give it a 10+k DPS tank, even with the basic of officer mods, a full setup which would admittedly cost a lot, could have you warping in 10 seconds and tanking 15k+ dps... Killing a Titan isnt easy enough for the damage they can do, and as the game begins to fill faster and faster with them, I for one am very worried on how this will play out. I remmeber when people argued that something costing 50 billion to build, shouldnt be easy to kill.... well 50 Billion is chump change to the big guys. Would the likes of BoB and Ra/AAA/Goons etc like to see some of their roles removed from the game, or do they see their advantage, which grows every day, over other players too much to give up? Lets be honest, the day of 20 Titans on a battlefield is not far away.. thats 1.5ish million raw damage How long before popping a carrier fleet will be effected by a mass Titan DD? It feels like a race, first team to 30 or so Titans wins Eve... When someone is getting close, can I join your team What about Stealth Bombers using bombs.... They bomb 15km radius and if the target signiture is under 400 it will be harder to hit and might dodge the blast. And another thing about them is that you can't get the enemy inside posses. Even thou you have theyr passwords.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.09 14:54:00 - [432] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 09/05/2008 14:54:04 Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: Depp Knight I will add nothing to this discussion except this. Why is this thread on CAOD? That one is easy to answer. The OP first clicked on the CAOD forum linky. Then he clicked on the post new topic linky. And then he wrote his message and posted it He asked 'Why' and not 'How'. -- Billion Isk Mission
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.09 14:55:00 - [433] Phrixus, for someone who is trying to speak with authority on this subject, you're pretty ignorant. Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.05.09 14:58:00 - [434] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Malachon Draco Too bad you've been playing for so long and still can't spot a trolling remark though :( I'm still in shock are you being blue! HEY! Don't speak in the present tense please. And I can see you're in shock, or you would not garble the sequence of words in your sentences, that is so unlike you.
Ghaelsto Kakram Mindgamers	Posted - 2008.05.09 15:02:00 - [435] Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr Human nature is so that it will exploit any advantage it can get to win. If that means stacking 8 dmg mods in lowslot they will. If that means timing stront at russian prime time they will. If that means infiltrating TS they will. If that means letting isk sellers rat in their systems they will. If that means crashing nodes they will. If that means creating lag with bookmarks in shuttles they will. If that means being nanofags they will. If that means using ctrl+Q they will. If that means using remote DDD they will. If that means using DDD with a single Titan they will. If that means DDD'ing the crap out of everybody with multiple Titans they will. QFT
Goktar illiat Gallente Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.09 15:02:00 - [436] Originally by: Dianabolic Phrixus, for someone who is trying to speak with authority on this subject, you're pretty ignorant. For someone trying to justify a obvious game balance breaker, you're sounding rather desperate (pathetic)
Smith Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.09 15:04:00 - [437] Change EVE all you want. Someone in EVE is always going to exploit something in the game to its fullest extent. Thats part of the beauty of EVE...its a total beach if you are on the wrong side of the beat stick and very satisfying when its you who is doing the beat downs. GOD BLESS EVE!
Tzrailasa Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.09 15:06:00 - [438] Originally by: Ghaelsto Kakram Originally by: Tzrailasa If there're no opposing fleet, there'll normally not be any lag of consequence, so titan DD's are easy to avoid. You only need 5 minutes to take down a jammer, so it really doesn't matter if titans can use bridges between systems. 4 Titans, DDD every 4 min. 5 Titans, DDD every 3 min. 6 Titans, DDD every 2 min. etc. Besides DDD = lag. Argument = void Ehem... will someone else point out the errors of this troll??? Oh, wth.... Titans can only fire once per hour. DD is only equal to lag if it kersplodes large amounts of ships. It only does so against stupid people. So you warp out when he fires, then warp back. If too heavily defended, A-D applies. Originally by: Ghaelsto Kakram Quote: If the system is defended to that degree, we'd either: a. Attack somewhere else (H74) b. Wait until they get tired (1-N) c. Wait until we can surprise them (QY6) d. Break their morale, then attack (EIM,Y-C) None of these were defended by multiple Titans. Argument = void They would have been if we coalition style had announced our intentions to attack 2 days in advance (or had stupidly left the systems before the POS were dead)! My views are my own. They do not represent the views of my corporation or alliance.
Yorda Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.09 15:06:00 - [439] Originally by: Smith Change EVE all you want. Someone in EVE is always going to exploit something in the game to its fullest extent. Thats part of the beauty of EVE...its a total beach if you are on the wrong side of the beat stick and very satisfying when its you who is doing the beat downs. GOD BLESS EVE! I think this may be my new favorite post. I'd just like to thank Eddz for this epic troll. It's made at least two boring days at work pass a lot faster. Originally by: nlewis jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were
TWD Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.09 15:09:00 - [440] Originally by: Goktar illiat Originally by: Dianabolic Phrixus, for someone who is trying to speak with authority on this subject, you're pretty ignorant. For someone trying to justify a obvious game balance breaker, you're sounding rather desperate (pathetic) I'm sure that when your alliance gets this game balance breaking ship, you'll be unstoppable!

Phrixus Zephyr Prospero Incorperated	Posted - 2008.05.09 15:10:00 - [441] Originally by: Dianabolic Phrixus, for someone who is trying to speak with authority on this subject, you're pretty ignorant. For someone whos trying to take part in this discussion, you've yet to make a point.
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.09 15:10:00 - [442] Originally by: Goktar illiat Originally by: Dianabolic Phrixus, for someone who is trying to speak with authority on this subject, you're pretty ignorant. For someone trying to justify a obvious game balance breaker, you're sounding rather desperate (pathetic) Pretty obviously you're not reading what I'm posting then, well done, because if you had you would see I'm not justifying it - there's a difference between saying "removing it is stupid" and "yes, things need to be changed, but overall the mechanic is fine". I guess you'd know, if your titans managed to hit a dd before getting destroyed, hey? Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.09 15:11:00 - [443] Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Originally by: Dianabolic Phrixus, for someone who is trying to speak with authority on this subject, you're pretty ignorant. For someone whos trying to take part in this discussion, you've yet to make a point. Perhaps you should put down the cup'o'whine and read what people are posting, then. Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Pnuka GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.09 15:12:00 - [444] Originally by: Smith Change EVE all you want. Someone in EVE is always going to exploit something in the game to its fullest extent. Thats part of the beauty of EVE...its a total beach if you are on the wrong side of the beat stick and very satisfying when its you who is doing the beat downs. GOD BLESS EVE! Like invulnerable cyno ships!
Phyrr Minmatar The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2008.05.09 15:18:00 - [445] Edited by: Phyrr on 09/05/2008 15:21:20 Tie titans to sov. For every 3 constellations you have constellation sov in you can build one titan. If you lose sov in a constellation, you keep your additional titan, but if it dies you need to retake sov to build a new one. This limits titans to true 0.0 alliances. Rough calculations say: 2858 non npc systems in eve. 476 constellations (approx 5 systems a constellation for example)usually 7 in my experience, but im at work and cant do in depth eve thingies:P This leaves 158 possible titans that can be constructed. IF every constellation has constellation sov. This would limit Delve to 6 titans if my calculations are correct. Bagging insmother would allow for 7 potential titans. etc etc. With titans tied to territory you make them part of empire building and limit their production. Titans sold on still count as your constellations titan So no getting around the system that way. DDD cannot be fired in a system with a cyno jammer anchored due to planck bubble stabilizers or whatever RP reason you need. Titans used to shoot through cyno's so it would make sense that something that jams cyno's could disrupt a DDD. Join us in the Exploration channel. The odds on me being here are rather slim evolutionary speaking, yet in the infinite bounds of probability my being here is a certainty.
Phrixus Zephyr Prospero Incorperated	Posted - 2008.05.09 15:23:00 - [446] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Originally by: Dianabolic Phrixus, for someone who is trying to speak with authority on this subject, you're pretty ignorant. For someone whos trying to take part in this discussion, you've yet to make a point. Perhaps you should put down the cup'o'whine and read what people are posting, then. As much as it appears you'd like arguing like a school child in the playground, i'm going bite this one last time until you start bringing something relevent to the discussion. I am reading what people are posting and i am disagreeing with them, some of us are even trying to have a discussion. This is where one person gives their opinion and backs it up with reason and the other does the same. It is not dismissing posts as 'whine' just because they don't agree with your point of view.
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2008.05.09 15:28:00 - [447] Originally by: thoth foc I didn't specify anyone as top players, but thanx for the compliment.. and the conditons are the same with or without titans.. since everyone plays the same game.. excellent job on missing the point.. Oh, you certainly think of yourself as one, my friend. And conditions are not the same in this game when some people have to start from scratch where others have inumerous advantages for just having been here for more time like you. You want an easy game for yourself. A game where you have I-WIN buttons and can chest beat about how good you are. The truth is, you and your peers are just as common and mediocre as everybody. Give the same numbers and the same budget and you lose to RA, Goons or about anyone else as much as you win, which would mean the "good" fights you say you love. Unfortunately that is not what you want. What you want is to win whatever it takes to do it. Be it metagaming, cheating or anything else. ===== "If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron...
Phyrr Minmatar The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2008.05.09 15:30:00 - [448] Edited by: Phyrr on 09/05/2008 15:31:04 Please for the love of god stop the whining. I've had forum issues with Eddz in the past, but he has a point. I think folks should stay on topic and grow up. He's right to post it here, as titans are an alliance specific issue. TBH other sections of the forum don't get the traffic to discuss such issues. Join us in the Exploration channel. The odds on me being here are rather slim evolutionary speaking, yet in the infinite bounds of probability my being here is a certainty.
Yorda Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.09 15:33:00 - [449] Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Originally by: Dianabolic Phrixus, for someone who is trying to speak with authority on this subject, you're pretty ignorant. For someone whos trying to take part in this discussion, you've yet to make a point. Perhaps you should put down the cup'o'whine and read what people are posting, then. As much as it appears you'd like arguing like a school child in the playground, i'm going bite this one last time until you start bringing something relevent to the discussion. I am reading what people are posting and i am disagreeing with them, some of us are even trying to have a discussion. This is where one person gives their opinion and backs it up with reason and the other does the same. It is not dismissing posts as 'whine' just because they don't agree with your point of view. Actually he did post his thoughts on titans on page 4 with two simple posts. Since then he's been trying to troll people or something I dunno. Also, this is probably the last place you should come when wanting to have a discussion. I think SPYAD would be a better choice. Originally by: nlewis jammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were
Tzrailasa Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.09 15:42:00 - [450] Originally by: Phyrr Tie titans to sov. For every 3 constellations you have constellation sov in you can build one titan. If you lose sov in a constellation, you keep your additional titan, but if it dies you need to retake sov to build a new one. Won't work as any other 'fixes' of anything that involves 'limits per something'.... Example: Alliance 'zzz0' takes a constellation.... Alliance 'zzz0' builds a titan Alliance 'zzz0' creates a new alliance 'zzz1' Alliance 'zzz0' looses constellation to 'zzz1' Alliance 'zzz1' builds a titan etc.etc.etc. Number limits applied to alliances/corp/players/etc simply doesn't work in EVE. My views are my own. They do not represent the views of my corporation or alliance.



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