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Sara Hobbs
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Posted - 2008.06.11 09:01:00 -
[181]
Edited by: Sara Hobbs on 11/06/2008 09:01:10 Gets my vote. I want to see fixes to lag and making the Moa not suck. I don't want this to be a platform for a repugnant little publicity-junkie to sidetrack the process in order to further his own interests and those of his alliance.
Serenity needs to grow a pair and stand up to Jade, too: at the moment he is at risk of being implicated due to his absolute unwillingness to step in and control someone who is his personal friend. |
Sigmorhair
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.11 09:12:00 -
[182]
Originally by: lecrotta
Originally by: Jane Spondogolo Anyone who suggests that a democratic committee needs a "Strong leader" to "Discipline" it , clearly has no ******* idea how a committee work.
Every committee has a chair person who's responsibilities include keeping order during meetings, and that takes a certain strength of personality to accomplish or things become a shouting match.
And anybody who does not see that, clearly has no ******* idea what ppl can be like.
I sure am glad we had one man corp alt people telling us how people are. Clearly their success in people management is demonstrated in game. |
lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2008.06.11 09:15:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Sigmorhair
I sure am glad we had one man corp alt people telling us how people are. Clearly their success in people management is demonstrated in game.
A good chair person keeps the topic relevant to the topic and also stops ppl from using "ad hominem" attacks like this individual. |
Myk Taison
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.11 09:17:00 -
[184]
oust |
Caleese
New Eden Research And Design School
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Posted - 2008.06.11 09:17:00 -
[185]
Right from the start I knew having Jade as chair would be a bad move. Obviously I don't know Jade personally, but just going on the sheer amount of waffling he does, he obviously loves the sound of his own voice. I mean read his posts, or an even better example would be to listen to the evecast interview he did before the csm elections. All the others that were interviewed gave nice, "to the point" answers to the questions asked. Jade on the other hand droned on about every little detail.
I didn't mind having Jade on the council, but as chairman, he seems to believe this gives him some special rights/power that the others don't. And nobody actually elected Jade a chairman.
It's NOT your council Jade. Seriously, if you care about the csm as much as you made out you did before the elections, it's time to pull your head in and stop trying to play puppet master.
Be the bigger man (roleplaying as a girl) and step down. You'll do more good as a member of the council, than you will "trying" to run it. |
Waterfowl Democracy
The Ministry of Indigenous Affairs GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.11 09:24:00 -
[186]
Originally by: lecrotta
A good chair person keeps the discussion relevant to the topic and also stops ppl from using "ad hominem" attacks and other disruptive comments like this individual seems to think are worth saying. Maybe those who cannot keep to the agenda (mostly goons as per usual) should move back to caod where they belong.
Get back to us when you've read the CSM meeting minutes and seen with your own eyes Jade's behaviour. |
Ethaet
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.06.11 09:32:00 -
[187]
Did I just agree with a goon?
Jade constantine muting everyone who disagrees with him is wrong, not to mention 99% of what he says is TL;DR and could be written in 1/4 of the length. (already supported so can't in this post) -------------------------------------------------------------- Seriously, we need some kind of separation between the post and signature. There you go. Now that wasn't so hard |
lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2008.06.11 09:35:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy
Originally by: lecrotta
Originally by: Sigmorhair
I sure am glad we had one man corp alt people telling us how people are. Clearly their success in people management is demonstrated in game.
A good chair person keeps the discussion relevant to the topic and also stops ppl from using "ad hominem" attacks and other disruptive comments like this individual insulting me seems to think are worth saying.
Maybe those who cannot keep to the agenda (mostly goons as per usual) should move back to caod where they belong.
Get back to us when you've read the CSM meeting minutes and seen with your own eyes Jade's behaviour.
I see a chair person dealing with a disruption to a meeting, warnings were given initially then a mute when the problem continued.
Seems pretty cut and dried to me.
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Sigmorhair
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.11 09:40:00 -
[189]
Edited by: Sigmorhair on 11/06/2008 09:42:51
Originally by: lecrotta
Originally by: Waterfowl Democracy
Originally by: lecrotta
Originally by: Sigmorhair
I sure am glad we had one man corp alt people telling us how people are. Clearly their success in people management is demonstrated in game.
A good chair person keeps the discussion relevant to the topic and also stops ppl from using "ad hominem" attacks and other disruptive comments like this individual insulting me seems to think are worth saying.
Maybe those who cannot keep to the agenda (mostly goons as per usual) should move back to caod where they belong.
Get back to us when you've read the CSM meeting minutes and seen with your own eyes Jade's behaviour.
I see a chair person dealing with a disruption to a meeting, warnings were given initially then a mute when the problem continued.
Seems pretty cut and dried to me.
Ha ha are you Jade's alt? I doubt many people could cast this in such a partisan light. Considering how split the counci is already your outright lies are transparent.
The only way this is cut and dried is if you really believe Jade has the right to silence members and ignore votes. Neither of which is outlined in the charter. So spare me your bull**** on cut and dried - JADE.
Perhaps you should type "WALL OF TEXT" for all your replies - it would matter as much.
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Illaria
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Posted - 2008.06.11 09:42:00 -
[190]
So... Goonswarm have found a new griefing toy with the CSM it seems. How very much unsurprising.
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Theramin Dogon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.11 09:42:00 -
[191]
Originally by: lecrotta A good chair person keeps the discussion relevant to the topic and also stops ppl from using "ad hominem" attacks and other disruptive comments like this individual seems to think are worth saying. Maybe those who cannot keep to the agenda (mostly goons as per usual) should move back to caod where they belong.
Jade is no stranger to relying on ad hominem. And why do you think CAOD is so important to us? Goons post where the action is, and there's plenty of drama to be had here -- but don't worry, we'll still post in CAOD.
Originally by: Ethaet Did I just agree with a goon?
Is that really such a big deal? Did you think we were going to be okay with this? Darius and Bane have continually pushed for fairness and equality to the point of calling Jade out several times, and that won't change. If it did, I'd expect people to rise up and call for a vote of no confidence. |
Illaria
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Posted - 2008.06.11 09:44:00 -
[192]
Originally by: Theramin Dogon Darius and Bane have continually pushed for fairness and equality
Quoting for hilarity
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Narciss Sevar
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.11 09:55:00 -
[193]
Jade had a chance to act responsibly, he has shown he can't. This has my support. |
Theramin Dogon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.11 10:00:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Illaria So... Goonswarm have found a new griefing toy with the CSM it seems. How very much unsurprising.
Yes, it's a shame Jade had to do something the council disagrees with before our grand master plan was unveiled. We hardly had any goons at all come into these forums, but I guess that must be those goonies blobbing the forums so they'll lag out. It's clearly "griefing" and not at all related to what had just happened during the last meeting. |
lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2008.06.11 10:00:00 -
[195]
Originally by: Sigmorhair
Ha ha are you Jade's alt? I doubt many people could cast this in such a partisan light. Considering how split the counci is already your outright lies are transparent.
So i'm a alt and a liar??. You really do belong on CAOD don't you *******.
Originally by: Sigmorhair
The only way this is cut and dried is if you really believe Jade has the right to silence members and ignore votes. Neither of which is outlined in the charter. So spare me your bull**** on cut and dried - JADE.
1. I do believe that the chair has the right to silence a disruptive member, its a necessary power.
2. I do not think that votes should or can be ignored but then i see no votes being ignored only a proposed clarification on the voting system.
Originally by: Sigmorhair
Perhaps you should type "WALL OF TEXT" for all your replies - it would matter as much.
Maybe you should type more goon drama bomb bull****, it would save reading time.
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Sigmorhair
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.11 10:06:00 -
[196]
Originally by: lecrotta
Originally by: Sigmorhair
Ha ha are you Jade's alt? I doubt many people could cast this in such a partisan light. Considering how split the counci is already your outright lies are transparent.
So i'm a alt and a liar??. You really do belong on CAOD don't you *******.
Originally by: Sigmorhair
The only way this is cut and dried is if you really believe Jade has the right to silence members and ignore votes. Neither of which is outlined in the charter. So spare me your bull**** on cut and dried - JADE.
1. I do believe that the chair has the right to silence a disruptive member, its a necessary power.
2. I do not think that votes should or can be ignored but then i see no votes being ignored only a proposed clarification on the voting system.
Originally by: Sigmorhair
Perhaps you should type "WALL OF TEXT" for all your replies - it would matter as much.
Maybe you should type more goon drama bomb bull****, it would save reading time.
Like most idiots against this motion you fail to describe what "disruptive" is - like anyone is going to take you or your ilk seriously. Try harder.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2008.06.11 10:49:00 -
[197]
Considering Jade's response and behavior regarding the minuscule incident, I have to support this notion. Jade is obviously neither mature, nor honest, nor objective enough to fill in the position of a chairman. Remove him from chair and vote in another.
It almost makes me belief that Jade was voted in by all those people that want the CSM to fail.... |
RiotGrrrl
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Posted - 2008.06.11 11:20:00 -
[198]
After seeing the attitude that Jade has made in the csm minutes, I regret voting for him. Supported. |
Xelloss Metallum
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Posted - 2008.06.11 12:11:00 -
[199]
Originally by: Xplained Judging by some of Jade's answers, is he like 14 yrs of age?
I vote to remove him from the chair, i've never been a fan of BOB, but i would rather see DB Preacher in the chair
Closer to 40, believe it or not. |
Kalinda Veldrin
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Posted - 2008.06.11 12:30:00 -
[200]
After having read the minutes of the last meeting it is with a heavy heart that I have to support this issue. Jade you failed several times to allow Iz to finish what she was saying and thus to you it looked like she was speaking while you were trying to force a vote. If you stuck to the decision made at the previous meeting to show that you had finished talking properly before moving on this may not have happened. Serenity is one of the few of you to actually request to speak and signal when she has finished properly. However your knee-jerk reaction and subsequent moderation with attempt to veto (even tho other elected CSM's disagreed) shows that you are not at this time capable of being the Chair of our elected CSM.
I for one do not wish the CSM to fail and I voted for a candidate that has proven to be professional, courteous and level headed so far. Perhaps you should re-read the minutes of the meetings and see what the rest of us are seeing.
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Qaedienne
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Posted - 2008.06.11 12:40:00 -
[201]
Quote: Unfortunately. these godforsaken forums won't let me fisk that list properly inside of ten posts. That said, at least 2/3 of the actions posted on there are both reasonable and correct, and the rest are no worse than other, non-silenced, people's actions.
I have a hard time believing a rational person can claim Inanna's constant and focused attempts to be disruptive throughout that meeting are reasonable and correct, and then turn around and have a hissy fit over a single action, that actually was reasonable and correct.
Perhaps you can explain it for me.
Quote: Seriously, you're calling abstaining misconduct?
I didn't say abstaining is misconduct. I do think abstaining is a sign the CSM candidate is not prepared. The playerbase has put forward ideas to make the game better. I think the least a CSM candidate can do is review it enough to form an opinion about it, and either support it or reject it.
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Veronika Cash
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Posted - 2008.06.11 12:44:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Darius JOHNSON
Goons have no restrictions on their posting. There's no need to use an alt. v0v
Did you or did you not threaten some of your members on the goon forum with infractions if they kept posting in Eve's Corporation, Alliances and Organization Discussion forum? Please deny it so I can post a picture of the thread with your posting, and show what kind of liar you are. Many goons post on alts, their posting pattern and their anti-bob attitude makes that much obvious. Let's not forget the spy goons in different alliances posting here to make it look like many alliances agree with you on removing Jade. This is an entirely goon fed propaganda campaign, it was even you Mr. Johnson that forced Jade to tighten control over the council as you were doing everything in your power to disrupt the meeting.
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Ethaet
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.06.11 12:47:00 -
[203]
Originally by: Qaedienne
Quote: Unfortunately. these godforsaken forums won't let me fisk that list properly inside of ten posts. That said, at least 2/3 of the actions posted on there are both reasonable and correct, and the rest are no worse than other, non-silenced, people's actions.
I have a hard time believing a rational person can claim Inanna's constant and focused attempts to be disruptive throughout that meeting are reasonable and correct, and then turn around and have a hissy fit over a single action, that actually was reasonable and correct.
Perhaps you can explain it for me.
Quote: Seriously, you're calling abstaining misconduct?
I didn't say abstaining is misconduct. I do think abstaining is a sign the CSM candidate is not prepared. The playerbase has put forward ideas to make the game better. I think the least a CSM candidate can do is review it enough to form an opinion about it, and either support it or reject it.
Jade Constantine alt spotted.
Inanna's actions were fine, Jade muting and then kicking him/her for disagreeing with his point of view is not. -------------------------------------------------------------- Seriously, we need some kind of separation between the post and signature. There you go. Now that wasn't so hard |
Qaedienne
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Posted - 2008.06.11 12:55:00 -
[204]
Quote: And heres the nuts of the problem. Jade has no formal power to issue warnings. They certainly are not "formal". Heres why.
Theres an aparent contradiction in the CSM summary that says
1) The chair moderates the meeting
BUT
2) "A simple majority vote is required for passage"
Now under almost all legal jurastictions, 2) is generally read to mean what is known as a "Limited freedom of speech". Specifically that the person involved is permited full freedom of speech on any matter pertaining to the democratic process. Because if members are barred from speech, it is therefore not a democracy. For an example of a ruling of this , see "The crown vs the Communist Party of Australia", and note that this heuristic is backed up from follow up rulings around the world.
So how does the "Freedom of speech" thing interact with the seemingly contradictory power of moderation?
The key is in the word "Limited". The moderator has no power to stop a person speaking to matters pertaining to the meeting. If someone is a pain in the arse, but is speaking about matters regarding democracy or topics of discussion, that person has an inviolable right to do so. If however people start doing "z0r chains" or posting "farts", or whatever, then yes, the moderator can intervene. But only to the extent is restrains THAT behavior.
To mute someone for interjection or uncomfortable speech that is within the scope is a denial of Natural Law within the scope of democracy.
Jade stuffed up, and should conceed as much. I wouldn't support a no confidence, but I would if the behavior continuted. It is unbecoming of a chair (Along with Jades, and admittedly much of the councils concept of what an abstain vote means) and I'd remind Jade, that Jade does not have a choice in the matter. The chair is constrained by the very clear wording of "Simple majority" to permit ALL democratic speech, and respect the meaning of "Simple majority" to not count an abstain as a "Nae".
The chair is not required to permit "all democratic speech", whatever that means. Regardless, time was given to people who wanted to discuss a topic. She isn't required to allow time to people who just want to emo-rage.
Also, Inanna's interruption of a vote, and demands that the council support the opposite verdict of a previous vote (that she willfully abstained from and allowed to pass), is a direct contradiction of democracy, and the democratic process. For what it's worth.
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Qaedienne
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Posted - 2008.06.11 12:57:00 -
[205]
Originally by: Ethaet Jade Constantine alt spotted.
Inanna's actions were fine, Jade muting and then kicking him/her for disagreeing with his point of view is not.
Lol. I'm not Jade. Glad I could get under your skin though.
Inanna was an ass in that meeting, she should have been kicked earlier. It's not like she was voting much anyway.
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Qaedienne
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Posted - 2008.06.11 13:00:00 -
[206]
Quote: PS. Qaedienne, post with your main.
Lol, CAOD troll spotted. |
Pnuka
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.11 13:04:00 -
[207]
Originally by: Qaedienne
Originally by: Ethaet Jade Constantine alt spotted.
Inanna's actions were fine, Jade muting and then kicking him/her for disagreeing with his point of view is not.
Lol. I'm not Jade. Glad I could get under your skin though.
Inanna was an ass in that meeting, she should have been kicked earlier. It's not like she was voting much anyway.
The fact you hide behind a alt pretty much negates anything you because in fact you could be Jade. |
Qaedienne
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Posted - 2008.06.11 13:08:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Pnuka
Originally by: Qaedienne
Originally by: Ethaet Jade Constantine alt spotted.
Inanna's actions were fine, Jade muting and then kicking him/her for disagreeing with his point of view is not.
Lol. I'm not Jade. Glad I could get under your skin though.
Inanna was an ass in that meeting, she should have been kicked earlier. It's not like she was voting much anyway.
The fact you hide behind a alt pretty much negates anything you because in fact you could be Jade.
I am a sinner and a lazy person, but at least I'm not a goon.
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lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2008.06.11 13:22:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Sigmorhair
Like most idiots against this motion you fail to describe what "disruptive" is - like anyone is going to take you or your ilk seriously. Try harder.
This is not a motion its a witch hunt ran by all those who's candidate or ideas did not make it and also by the natural *******s and trouble makers who look for any reason to dish out a bit of venom.
The votes have been counted and the candidates chosen if you cannot deal with the fact your guys lost then tough **** thats your problem. |
lecrotta
lecrotta Corp
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Posted - 2008.06.11 13:25:00 -
[210]
Edited by: lecrotta on 11/06/2008 13:26:54
Originally by: Qaedienne
Originally by: Ethaet Jade Constantine alt spotted.
Inanna's actions were fine, Jade muting and then kicking him/her for disagreeing with his point of view is not.
Lol. I'm not Jade. Glad I could get under your skin though.
Inanna was an ass in that meeting, she should have been kicked earlier. It's not like she was voting much anyway.
I thought i was the ALT?...maybe its just the way ******s minds work that they need to blame and accuse anybody who does not share their delusion? |
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