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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
hammyhamm
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.12 07:22:00 -
[271]
I care alot about this game, which is why I invest alot of my personal time in it. Jade has shown his character, and it is one that is not suitable for running on the chair of a council that I have entrusted the future of my game to. Supported. |
RDevz
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.12 08:03:00 -
[272]
Jade is a loose cannon. He should be taken off the case. |
Kyguard
Game-Over Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.06.12 08:24:00 -
[273]
Edited by: Kyguard on 12/06/2008 08:25:33 I haven't really cared about this CSM and decided to poke into it. I read 4 threads thoroughly and I've gotta agree, Jade can't handle power or things beyond his control.
Maybe that's not enough to say anything on the matter, but that's what I've gathered. |
Esmenet
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Posted - 2008.06.12 09:39:00 -
[274]
Clearly unsuitable for the task, |
Riesia
Star Bucks.
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Posted - 2008.06.12 10:19:00 -
[275]
From what I have seen on jades behaviour I must support the removal of Jade.
I will be very highly surprised if anything comes of this though. |
Dariah Stardweller
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Posted - 2008.06.12 10:33:00 -
[276]
Any place I can find the chatlogs of this event? |
Tharrn
Vigilia Valeria Expeditionary Forces
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Posted - 2008.06.12 10:36:00 -
[277]
Edited by: Tharrn on 12/06/2008 10:36:38 I am not exactly known to be Jade's bumchum but this is taking on ridicolous proportions. I think the message that people are unhappy with Jade's conduct during the last meeting has come across by now.
If this persists all the important issues will get burried in all the 'OUTRAGE!' threads. Or maybe that is exactly the plan: to just undermine the CSM and make sure it gets nothing done, which would be a shame as it is in general a good idea.
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Lonak Silu
GeoCorp. Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2008.06.12 10:42:00 -
[278]
After reading the logs, different threads and observing the behavior of the main actors of this "drama", I wanted to make a comedy post here, asking to not throw J.Constantine out of his (so loved) chair just for the sake of the good lulz.
But I came across a (now locked)thread in an external forums (SHC) about this CSM thing. I was literaly shocked to see the posts of that guy there, and I was even more disgusted when I saw his website linked there (concerning his "roleplay").
So, I decided to come here and vote against that..guy.
Not only because of his "roleplay" choices, but mainly because of his psychotic dictatorial behavior, and his inaptitude to handle a process who will maybe decide of our future gameplay.
now, to get back on his roleplay choices : I would like to tell him that it's the kind of stuffs that made a bad name of roleplay in general, and you must not forget that there is also kids playing this game. Roleplaying in an Internet spaceship game should be about : spaceships, politics and economics. Nothing else.
(Lets cut short your paranoia : I'm not a Goon alt. I think I even shooted at them once.)
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Ethaet
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.06.12 10:42:00 -
[279]
Edited by: Ethaet on 12/06/2008 10:43:00
Originally by: Dariah Stardweller Any place I can find the chatlogs of this event?
http://www.eve-csm.com/meetings/chatlogs/20080608councilofstellarmanagementlogs.rtf |
Esmenet
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Posted - 2008.06.12 10:55:00 -
[280]
Originally by: Tharrn Edited by: Tharrn on 12/06/2008 10:36:38 I am not exactly known to be Jade's bumchum but this is taking on ridicolous proportions. I think the message that people are unhappy with Jade's conduct during the last meeting has come across by now.
If it was only the last meeting things would have blown over by now. But jade keeps putting more fuel on the fire with practically every post he makes.
He should have just said sorry and moved on. |
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JafoPBCFR
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Posted - 2008.06.12 11:06:00 -
[281]
Jade seriously. Step Down you have Gone way way to far. Your Refusal to even look at the fact your wrong. You are a GOONSWARM hater. you see them everywhere you turn. Do you check under your bed too?
Read up on McCarthyism. And Read up on how much of a nut he was. Your rite up there with him. Seek some RL professional help. |
sophisticatedlimabean
Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2008.06.12 12:03:00 -
[282]
Edited by: sophisticatedlimabean on 12/06/2008 12:05:24
Originally by: Esmenet
Originally by: Tharrn
I am not exactly known to be Jade's bumchum but this is taking on ridicolous proportions. I think the message that people are unhappy with Jade's conduct during the last meeting has come across by now.
If it was only the last meeting things would have blown over by now. But jade keeps putting more fuel on the fire with practically every post he makes.
He should have just said sorry and moved on.
Actually he said "screw you" (or words to that effect) and then moved on.
Unfortunately the rest of you did not so he is still responding to your crap, he should have joined goons as the sort of behavior they are criticizing in him is something they applaud in and from their members.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
GO MaZ
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.06.12 12:29:00 -
[283]
The whole idea was to make the CSM a channel whereby we (paying customers) may voice our issues with CCP via community reps. After reading the logs of the meeting where all this occurred and the subsequent postings by Jade on this subject, I've come to realise that the CSM is chaired by someone in it for his own benefit and who has no intention of being a neutral chair.
Basically, get out. If you keep this crap up the CSM will get nowhere. |
Leonora Webb
CompleXion Industries
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Posted - 2008.06.12 12:40:00 -
[284]
Disappointing behaviour. |
Qaedienne
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Posted - 2008.06.12 12:41:00 -
[285]
Originally by: Aprudena Gist Edited by: Aprudena Gist on 11/06/2008 23:59:13
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Aprudena Gist So Apparely you can deny Darius Mail about the Vote of no Confidence then anyways?
Can I ask what you are talking about please?
He send a Mail the other day on your Fancy E-Mail List thing about a vote of no confidence in the chairman of the CSM i do believe and you said you would not add item so said agenda for the meeting.
Is/should it even be possible for the council to alter a position determined by popular vote in the CSM elections?
I'd say no.
Also, Goons continuing to stir **** up just shows that despite all their talk, they are undemocratic. They are all in favor of democratic elections, they are not in favor of the results of democratic elections. |
fuze
InfoMorph Services Ltd
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Posted - 2008.06.12 13:00:00 -
[286]
After giving this a long thought I just started to wonder if Jade seems to realize that he has a huge responsibility on his shoulders representing all those who voted for him. And same goes for the rest of the CSM. You all have to learn to work together and really think about improving Eve by representing the views of the players.
As CSM, your actions have RL consequences with possible influence of jobs at CCP. Think about it. |
Telaan
Pat Sharp's Potato Rodeo Daedalus Hegemony
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Posted - 2008.06.12 13:08:00 -
[287]
What's kept my attention is how Jade has managed to make Goons look good with his actions. Considering they are generally a group of rowdy hooligans who happily play to the limits of allowable behaviour in game (hi2u Jihadswarm and Recruitment channel people), this is quite an accomplishment.
I'm also gonna disagree with some of the views in this thread about Darius being disruptive and trying to break the CSM process. If anything, he's trying to get its sorry ass up and running and looking to actually get stuff done.
Jade, can you either sort this mess out ASAP or just give up the chair to someone who will actually treat the position properly? The CSM are the players chance to voice their issues to CCP, through the CSM, and you have so far managed to sandbag it terribly. |
Savesti Kyrsst
White-Noise
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Posted - 2008.06.12 13:31:00 -
[288]
Inanna had every right to act as she did. I think she acted very reasonably after having one vote editorialised and then being locked out of channel (apparently accidentally) for a revote.
After reading all this thread and all the logs (good grief), yes. |
Nynaeve Ares
Animus Incarnate
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Posted - 2008.06.12 13:42:00 -
[289]
Originally by: Qaedienne
Is/should it even be possible for the council to alter a position determined by popular vote in the CSM elections?
I'd say no.
Also, Goons continuing to stir **** up just shows that despite all their talk, they are undemocratic. They are all in favor of democratic elections, they are not in favor of the results of democratic elections.
I'd say yes, lets go for a RL analogy here. If your president/leader of choice goes bat**** insane in the middle of his/her term and starts firing nukes off all over the place do the vice-president/leader and all the other elected leaders say "oh crap, we voted for this idiot we got two more years of this"? No! There are ways of removing incompetents. As there should be a way of removing Jade. |
Damion Zyne
Des Esseintes Social Club
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Posted - 2008.06.12 13:51:00 -
[290]
*Yawn* I cant belive you started yet another thread about it.
Since he got elected as chair people started campaigning to get him out of this position. The only thing Jade should be sorry about is giving this bunch another reason by an not needed mute. Even TT and Verone (who stated that he is happy that he stepped out of CSM so he cant be that worried about the outcome of it)jumped into it crying "Censorship" where there was moderating and waving their names to score some easy eve-celeb points.
Also, CCP wake up and help the guys to sort some basic rules out. If this fails, its to a great part your fault, giving it not enough consideration. Dont think you can hide behind the poor sods (thats all the CSM reps)who stood up and tried (more or less) to make this work.
No support for this. Only CCP should be allowed to replace the chair. Also, CCP should indeed get a DEV to do chair as no player will be neutral and able to defend against claims to be biased.
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sophisticatedlimabean
Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2008.06.12 14:01:00 -
[291]
Originally by: Nynaeve Ares
Originally by: Qaedienne
Is/should it even be possible for the council to alter a position determined by popular vote in the CSM elections?
I'd say no.
Also, Goons continuing to stir **** up just shows that despite all their talk, they are undemocratic. They are all in favor of democratic elections, they are not in favor of the results of democratic elections.
I'd say yes, lets go for a RL analogy here. If your president/leader of choice goes bat**** insane in the middle of his/her term and starts firing nukes off all over the place do the vice-president/leader and all the other elected leaders say "oh crap, we voted for this idiot we got two more years of this"? No! There are ways of removing incompetents. As there should be a way of removing Jade.
I am sure that if jade does go "bat ****" insane and starts trashing ccp offices they will do something about it. But until then comparing his muting of a disruptive member to mass world wide murder is just pathetic.
My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake. |
Morgenreiter
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Posted - 2008.06.12 14:06:00 -
[292]
Not supported. I¦m a pretty new player and all these things about goons or whatever don¦t interest me. What interests me is, if someone speaks mature (so far as it is possible in a game environment), with reason and is open for dialogue and not just sending his opinions.
Another point is that this is a destrucive issue. A construcive would have been to propose another CSM member for chair. But even if: The issue about how the chair is chosen out is -already- on the agenda with ccp as far as i understood.
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Nynaeve Ares
Animus Incarnate
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Posted - 2008.06.12 14:17:00 -
[293]
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
I am sure that if jade does go "bat ****" insane and starts trashing ccp offices they will do something about it. But until then comparing his muting of a disruptive member to mass world wide murder is just pathetic.
Do you fear the apocalypse?
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sophisticatedlimabean
Terra Incognita.
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Posted - 2008.06.12 14:32:00 -
[294]
Originally by: Nynaeve Ares
Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean
I am sure that if jade does go "bat ****" insane and starts trashing ccp offices they will do something about it.
But until then comparing his muting of a disruptive member to mass world wide murder is just pathetic.
Do you fear the apocalypse?
Keep posting you are giving a good example for your "bat **** crazy" theory. |
Nynaeve Ares
Animus Incarnate
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Posted - 2008.06.12 14:54:00 -
[295]
Say that with your main! Filthy alt.
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.06.12 16:22:00 -
[296]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 12/06/2008 16:23:49
Originally by: Morgenreiter Not supported. I¦m a pretty new player and all these things about goons or whatever don¦t interest me. What interests me is, if someone speaks mature (so far as it is possible in a game environment), with reason and is open for dialogue and not just sending his opinions.
Another point is that this is a destrucive issue. A construcive would have been to propose another CSM member for chair. But even if: The issue about how the chair is chosen out is -already- on the agenda with ccp as far as i understood.
Yep the " Electable Chair"Issue was raised by me (ironically). It was posted on the Assembly hall for 7 days public discussion (tick) It got public support AND CSM member endorsement (tick) Raised on the agenda in a formal CSM meeting (tick) Got voted for by the CSM committee 4/2/2 (tick) I documented it yesterday and sent it to the CSM secretary (tick) And its getting submitted to CCP 7 days in advance of the conference as specified in our docs (tick)
This is how you get Issues that can impact the constitution/foundation documentation of the CSM into formal discussion. I've explained this quite a few times.
What would have been nice to see on the agenda as well would have been Issues raising the question of a non-voting CCP provided Chair. A rotating Chair, proposals of that sort. I think there is a problem with a voting CSM member acting in the role of Chair, and its something we need to consider, but we do need to raise Issues in the proper fashion.
This kind of thread (op post) doesn't help much because its just a lot shouting and no CSM advocacy. As long as it doesn't gain 5% of total player base in support (or specific CSM advocacy) it won't get added to the agenda automatically. But even getting a thread like this onto Issues agenda doesn't mean the Issue (itself) could get voted on there and then in any case, the principle of whether we in the CSM think its an important matter for the player base as a whole will be considered on the CSM and a vote held on the subject of whether we commend the Issue to CCP's attention: if it gets through that vote then it must then be raised in the CSM/CCP discussions at the formal conference since CCP need to have final sign off on any of these constitutional changes.
I'd like to see more people actively trying to understand the process at work here since it would render the apparent motivation behind a lot of these threads void and let us see more important Issues getting the air time they deserve.
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fuze
InfoMorph Services Ltd
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Posted - 2008.06.12 21:57:00 -
[297]
Originally by: Jade Constantine I'd like to see more people actively trying to understand the process at work here since it would render the apparent motivation behind a lot of these threads void and let us see more important Issues getting the air time they deserve.
You think this isn't important?
If CSM wouldn't be able to get their act together all issues wouldn't get handled properly. You don't have to agree or even like each other. Just that you accept your responsibility to give this your utmost best to make it work. That applies to all members. That you owe to all the people that voted for you. |
Morgenrei
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Posted - 2008.06.12 22:02:00 -
[298]
(Sorry, the MorgenreiTER was the first try char...)
Just some thoughts out of political experience:
The chairman/woman of an institution (the council in this case) and of a meeting don¦t HAVE to be the same. In RL-politics the chair of an institution, it can be several but this makes some things more complicated, is the representative for outer relations, like media and so on. The chair of a conference can rotate or be elected at the beginning of each session.
A big question is, if the council really MUST publish the whole log of a meeting, this is a source of endless.....like it is now. A short protocol is much more useful, even for the public. These are normally to be confirmed at the beginning of the following meeting. The discussions to the issues happen ALREADY here in the forum. If the council spends much time discussing/fighting with each other, its the councils business. Transparency would be given if it stood there how each member voted on an issue. It would certainly reduce the gossip factor. The question is if this is wanted. I¦d really like to see what kind of figure other csm members would give as moderators.
To the question of alternates as substitutes: It¦s the most normal thing of the world that when a regular member steps out, an alternate moves in and vice versa, when the regular comes back. On big party conferences you just cant sit there three days 16 hours each at all time for example. By the way: Many seem to think of the council as some party thing like "Highsecpeopleparty", "Pvpersunion", certain alliances and so on. The mechanics of the council and its election are not exactly designed in this way and this has not only consequences for the questions concerning alternates. There is a gap that needs clarification over long. |
Hegotu Alecto
Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.06.12 23:24:00 -
[299]
No. i like Jade. some good stuff in the manifesto. |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.06.12 23:28:00 -
[300]
Originally by: fuze You think this isn't important?
Nope this thread isn't important.
Quote: If CSM wouldn't be able to get their act together all issues wouldn't get handled properly. You don't have to agree or even like each other. Just that you accept your responsibility to give this your utmost best to make it work. That applies to all members. That you owe to all the people that voted for you.
Latest meeting of the CSM
Thats what people getting down to the hard work of actually being CSM reps looks like.
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