I started playing eve in April 2005. When I started the price of a Raven was 122 million. I bought that Raven about three months later. I used it to run Level 4 missions. I still have it. It has sat in my hanger in Empire ever since.

If there had been 1% inflation a month since I started playing Eve, the current value of that Raven would be 278.63 Million Isk.

The effective rate of inflation on the value of my first Raven is -7.12x10^4% per month.

There's unfortunately not enough information here to say whether your conclusion is true or false. There have been large amounts of literal mechanic changes since then. :(

-Liang

I take it back. It's exactly like what goes on in academic economics.

Someone already posted the numbers, the majority of isk in EVE comes off bounties and if anything, we should be reviewing the current bounties on battleship NPCs.

It's those running sites/mission/incursions 24h/d with their bots,

I didn't state a conclusion. Nor did I intend to state a conclusion.

I take it back. It's exactly like what goes on in academic economics.

(snip)
It's those running sites/mission/incursions 24h/d with their bots, mining entire belts al alone with their bots, running belts/sites in null with their very numerous bot alts, running incursions with their numerous alts and bots.
(Darth Nefarius: YOU CAN'T bot incursions except maybe in deep NULL SEC SOV? )

(snip)
Add moon goo, the biggest passive income in the game.
Throw some drone crap once again profiting to a very small part of eve players and killing a major part of the game for years now: mining

The list can go on, but whatever you'll pick each and every one of these will always bring exponential rewards for those playing more than 2 accounts, exploiting game mechanics, using bots.
At the end of the day the single player, the guy discovering the game and playing it normally with some fellows found here and there when he reads this kind of threads he might as well think there are different servers of eve online.

We're looking at the economy constantly and looking at our options.

One of the fundamental issues we have is that we're making everyone "better" at making money, so the effect kind of snowballs. Right now we're considering everything form increasing taxes to lowering bounties across the board.

Fun Facts:

In the month of Feb:


~8.6T ISK in Incursion Payouts

~4.8T in Mission Rewards + Mission Bonuses
~32T in NPC bounty


So of the combined Incursion/Missions/Ratting/etc ISK faucet

~81% comes from non-Incursion activity


EDIT: Beaten. Damn you Soundwave!

I agree the passive MOON goo focuses the ISK into the hands of a few & it needs some rethinking becuase T2 prices are strangle holded by a few cartels... I like idea of drones pooping moon goo myself or MOONs eventually being depleted & new moons popping up somehow. I think an increase in availability of moon goo to all would be a godsend to T2 inflation
Wormhole products don't seem to be concentrated in the hands of a few, yet...

Someone already posted the numbers, the majority of isk in EVE comes off bounties and if anything, we should be reviewing the current bounties on battleship NPCs.

That suggests to me that the run-away prices are a tech 1 phenomenon which means driven by the mineral market. That sounds like a supply shortfall and not a demand spike.

Checking on the tech 1 battleship volume numbers, they look pretty steady over time. So, it's not a spike in demand.

This looks like a mineral supply issue to me.

I went and looked at the last 720 days so that I could see a bit of context from before Incursions launched (Nov 2010). What I see is that the prices back then were significantly lower and that there has been a long drawn out process of the prices going up - usually in large market readjustments. The price never goes back down.

Exactly what I expect to see.

[quote=Liang Nuren]

Really that's what you'd expect to see in a case of run away inflation?

Market index 7-12-2009: 120
Market index 12-3-2011: 137

[
What if WH moons also provide moongoo, but only at a lower level of efficiency depending on the WH-level? Say 25% for a L3 and 50% for a L6. Adding the additional logistical headaches, WH corps will never be able to really compete with null-sec moons, but they can crack up the monopolies a bit. Especially since there is an abundance of free moons to be found.

Really that's what you'd expect to see in a case of run away inflation?

Market index 7-12-2009: 120
Market index 12-3-2011: 137

Not exactly run away inflation.
yeah so Incursions were launched 11-2010 you'd expect to see the market index significantly higher after compared to before right? assuming inflation was the problem?

Market index 6-25-2010: 137

Yep that's inflation alright

Interesting idea to break up the T2 monopoly & its decrease T2 costs... I guess I'd also ask why not also start replacing the Sansha incursion with a sleeper incursion to spread the nano ribbons out amongst all 3 spaces (Empire, NULL, & WH )

In other words: Start producing your own Nomad, you should get rich, don't you?

Your conclusion was a stated effective rate of inflation - though we don't actually know whether you bought that Raven at a reasonable price, got scammed, etc. Furthermore, the laws of physics have dramatically changed since then - such things as the shuttle change.

However, since Incursions there haven't been similar changes.

It would not have been a valid example if it was not purchased at market value. I also remember I was given a Cap Recharger II by a friend. It was worth 28.5 mil at the time (I remember it distinctly because we had a funny conversation about it and he then explained Tech2 manufacturing value chains to me). It would be unfair of me to have used a Cap Recharger II as an example since the current sale price is ~580,000 and the old prices were affected by heavy market manipulations of moon minerals, reaction material, and BPO cartels. And just so we're clear, I bought the Raven at going mineral prices at the time. I wasn't duped or scammed.

Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally.

Were there major inflationary problems before you introduced incursions?

Were there major inflationary problems before you introduced incursions?

You graphs are still not showing monetary inflation. Monetary inflation due to an over abundance of ISK would result in a relatively steady increase in prices overtime. What the graph shows is market volatility as a result of many different factors not price inflation due to an increase in the money supply

The data just doesn't support your position. the initial bump on the graph coincides with the introduction of PI not incursions. Which makes perfect sense, CCP replaced a heavily regulated market that had a fixed price/costs and an unlimited supply with a completely new player controlled mechanic.

The data just isn't consistent with monetary inflation. once again if we were looking at monetary inflation we'd see a steady increase in prices over time as the general supply of isk increased relative to production. This is not what has happened.

Now you probably won't see a return to pre-PI prices because those inputs are limited by supply rather than simply being a factor of demand (NPC supplied items have an effective unlimited supply and their price is fixed which puts an artificial constraint on the market). Whether prices return to the Dec levels is going to depend on how the Russian war resolves itself and whether CCP removes drone goo as a major sources of minerals.

The EVE economy is a fairly complex beast but monetary inflation isn't. Monetary inflation is a oversupply of currency relative to the overall economy and would manifest in a steady increase in prices over time.

Now I'm not saying that there isn't any monetary inflation, there probably is. in fact a certain amount of inflation is generally healthy for an economy as it provides an disincentive to hoard currency.

You would expect a general increase the supply of currency as the player base matures and becomes more efficient at harvesting isk, you'll also see a change in spending habits overtime as this happens. which is why I don't consider the 5% increase in money supply relative to population that CCP's economist reported to be indicative of a problem

The point is the level of monetary inflation that has manifested in EVE has not caused the market failures associated with hyper-inflation. In fact all indicators are to the opposite. The EVE economy is humming along quite nicely. The bears are farming their isk the PVPers are blowing up their ships and everyone is having a good ole time. Which in the end is the whole point of the economy in the game.

Heh, go read the latest dev blog. ;-)

-Liang

You are talking through your bum I didn't see a relaxation in PLEX prices until afterwards on my graphs which indicates another factor was at play... the 'interdiction' was so short lived you could not say PLEX's prices went up or down either way without horrible p values statistically.