I kept a list of goods I normally trade from early Dec 2011. I haven't played since then until just now.

Prices across the board are up around 20%. By this rate, the price of everything will double in a year. Is CCP looking at ways of managing isk flow or should I start converting my ISK into "hard" assets like PLEX or trit?

More like 30% for many of the ships I build. CCP need to turn turn the Incursion tap off before it's too late.

It's going to continue. CCP have created an environment where the majority of players now either have a bot or are making billions a month in the free-flowing isk avalanche that is Incursions. It's probably the biggest problem facing the game right now. People are less inclined to rat, mission run, explore or mine (because what's the point?) and the special and rarely seen is now commonplace and mundane.

PLEX was around 350m a year ago. It is now hovering at 500m. You'll need to run at least 40% more missions than a year ago just to buy a PLEX.

[



30 Day gtc's used to cost 140m or so in 2008 too, pretty funny to think about

There's nothing wrong with Incursions. The option is there for anyone and everyone to go to an Incursion system and take part. Those who are moaning and bitching about it have some form of bad feeling towards it for no good reason.

Do we moan about all the Tech moons constantly like you guys do? nope...

Incursions is maybe the fastest way to make isk yes indeed but it is deserved because the majority of subs come from empire people. That is a fact.

If you continue to take away every isk making solution to high sec subs will fall drastically.

It may be in CCPs interest to change them around slightly as they do with everything [just look at PI] I cannot see it changing too much.

I'm predicting no end of posts about moons by ignorant incursion runners.

There's nothing wrong with Incursions. The option is there for anyone and everyone to go to an Incursion system and take part. Those who are moaning and bitching about it have some form of bad feeling towards it for no good reason.

Do we moan about all the Tech moons constantly like you guys do? nope...

There's nothing wrong with Incursions. The option is there for anyone and everyone to go to an Incursion system and take part. Those who are moaning and bitching about it have some form of bad feeling towards it for no good reason.

Do we moan about all the Tech moons constantly like you guys do? nope...

Incursions is maybe the fastest way to make isk yes indeed but it is deserved because the majority of subs come from empire people. That is a fact.

If you continue to take away every isk making solution to high sec subs will fall drastically.

It may be in CCPs interest to change them around slightly as they do with everything [just look at PI] I cannot see it changing too much.

It the amount of isk being injected that is the problem. Moon goo adds no isk so its of no impact.

Incursions need a nerf to stop the hyper inflation otherwise we will lose subs because stuff will become too expensive for anyone not running incursions or ratting/missioning 23.5/7.

At the current rate ships will double in price before the year is out.

So the people hoarding in Zydrine in the hopes of a dronepoo change have absolutly nothing to do with this inflation.

The option is there for anyone and everyone to go to an Incursion system and take part.

And there are still carebears who want highsec lvl5's. Though with the ammount of isk you can make in incursions, Lvl5's are obsolete

L5s aren't nearly as bad since they're mostly LP-based, with a healthy helping of tags that further feeds the LP spendings of other players.

L5s aren't nearly as bad since they're mostly LP-based, with a healthy helping of tags that further feeds the LP spendings of other players.

Very true, also, if you can't match incursion income running level 5s, you're not running level 5s very well.

Incursions can generate between 70 and 130 mil an hour. Not including the Concord LP... Incursions easily outperform any other form of PvE in the game, including Wormholes. My corp just shut down 2 of its wormholes specifically in favor of Incursions.

There's nothing wrong with Incursions. The option is there for anyone and everyone to go to an Incursion system and take part.

dust is gonna be the biggest isk sink ever

stock up on isk if possible :P

Best way to deal with this is to continue sitting in null running your bots full time while keeping everyone focused on incursions.

Hold on...y'all are already doing that.

Carry on.

Mr Epeen

dust is gonna be the biggest isk sink ever

stock up on isk if possible :P

We're looking at the economy constantly and looking at our options.

One of the fundamental issues we have is that we're making everyone "better" at making money, so the effect kind of snowballs. Right now we're considering everything form increasing taxes to lowering bounties across the board.

or maybe do the 1 thing you KNOW will regulate the flow...

Switching Incursions from ISK to LP payout...


Or tell the Sansha to go home...

We're looking at the economy constantly and looking at our options.

One of the fundamental issues we have is that we're making everyone "better" at making money, so the effect kind of snowballs. Right now we're considering everything form increasing taxes to lowering bounties across the board.

There's nothing wrong with Incursions. The option is there for anyone and everyone to go to an Incursion system and take part. Those who are moaning and bitching about it have some form of bad feeling towards it for no good reason.

Do we moan about all the Tech moons constantly like you guys do? nope...

Incursions is maybe the fastest way to make isk yes indeed but it is deserved because the majority of subs come from empire people. That is a fact.

If you continue to take away every isk making solution to high sec subs will fall drastically.

It may be in CCPs interest to change them around slightly as they do with everything [just look at PI] I cannot see it changing too much.

Decrease null sec bounties by 10%, low sec by 20% and high sec by 50%.

IB4 high sec tears.

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=9133

look who's wrong!!!

Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally.

10 plus days old? Dead and buried. Ten days is forever in bot world as you well know. There is a whole new generation of Bee bots dispersing through 0.0 as we speak. This too, you well know.

What are you trying to distract everyone from? No need to answer. We already know.

Mr Epeen

We're looking at the economy constantly and looking at our options.

One of the fundamental issues we have is that we're making everyone "better" at making money, so the effect kind of snowballs. Right now we're considering everything form increasing taxes to lowering bounties across the board.

10 plus days old? Dead and buried. Ten days is forever in bot world as you well know. There is a whole new generation of Bee bots dispersing through 0.0 as we speak. This too, you well know.

What are you trying to distract everyone from? No need to answer. We already know.

Mr Epeen

Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally.

Finally, NOW can we please stop the nerf Incursion threads!

As for the inflation, you wanted a mining buff here it is! Trit selling at 5 ISK a pop! Nice!

We're looking at the economy constantly and looking at our options.

One of the fundamental issues we have is that we're making everyone "better" at making money, so the effect kind of snowballs. Right now we're considering everything form increasing taxes to lowering bounties across the board.

You're going to have to elaborate on that one a bit.

Nope.
Inflation is not a mining buff since it doesn't mean mining is more worth-while.

Very true, also, if you can't match incursion income running level 5s, you're not running level 5s very well.

The biggest problem with incursion payouts as they are (and no, it hasn't obsoleted everything else in the game, nor can it simply because of the fact that there are a very finite number of sites that can be run in 1 system, more than 60-70 in a system and you're dropping sites faster than they can spawn) is that the LP market is absolutely ****. In their attempt to turn LP stores into isk sinks, CCP set a minimum price on everything in them, and by making tags so much harder to get than LP, and required for so many of the mods in their stores, they end up in a place where a massive part of the income from missions (as well as what they could have potentially shifted incursions towards to lower the impact on inflation) is worthless.

A few years ago someone who knew what they were doing could blitz missions and pull 100mil/hour in highsec running lvl 4s, but a large part of that was LP. With the LP/tag imbalance being as bad as it is, this is no longer possible, and you'd be lucky to pull 60-70, which is a pity because the easiest way to fix the inflation problem in incursions would be to shift more of the reward to LPs and add more rewards, but, looking at what's there now, the artificial floor on the prices is set too high for there to be much demand for the rewards currently there, and the LP is mostly useless.


Also vanguards need a nerf, assaults need a notable buff and HQs need a slight buff.

Promote PvP

Fun Facts:

In the month of Feb:


~8.6T ISK in Incursion Payouts

~4.8T in Mission Rewards + Mission Bonuses
~32T in NPC bounty


So of the combined Incursion/Missions/Ratting/etc ISK faucet

~81% comes from non-Incursion activity


EDIT: Beaten. Damn you Soundwave!

Someone already posted the numbers, the majority of isk in EVE comes off bounties and if anything, we should be reviewing the current bounties on battleship NPCs.

* Promote PvP

You can lead a horse to water.....

Look, inflation hurts only a few classes of people: Old People, Children, people on some types of welfare or fixed income, and the poor.

What do they have in common? Unemployment.

You have a job in EvE... we all do. Inflation is a non-factor because everyone (but people who only play NPCs and f-em anyway) will see their income go up proportionally with the inflation of the currency. It's totally a non-issue!

Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally.

We're looking at the economy constantly and looking at our options.

One of the fundamental issues we have is that we're making everyone "better" at making money, so the effect kind of snowballs. Right now we're considering everything form increasing taxes to lowering bounties across the board.

Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally.

Someone already posted the numbers, the majority of isk in EVE comes off bounties and if anything, we should be reviewing the current bounties on battleship NPCs.

the scaling effect of more people doing incursions are quite shocking.

Not really, it balances itself out.

How do you control the EVE economy when anyone can buy a PLEX out of game and turn it into isk?

Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally.

As for the inflation, you wanted a mining buff here it is! Trit selling at 5 ISK a pop! Nice!

Someone already posted the numbers, the majority of isk in EVE comes off bounties and if anything, we should be reviewing the current bounties on battleship NPCs.

Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally.

Also, a large portion of the bounties already follow that rule GÇö the more people rat/explore/run anomalies, the fewer are available. So by that token, bounties aren't a problem eitherGǪ

There's nothing wrong with Incursions. The option is there for anyone and everyone to go to an Incursion system and take part. Those who are moaning and bitching about it have some form of bad feeling towards it for no good reason.

Do we moan about all the Tech moons constantly like you guys do? nope...

Incursions is maybe the fastest way to make isk yes indeed but it is deserved because the majority of subs come from empire people. That is a fact.

If you continue to take away every isk making solution to high sec subs will fall drastically.

It may be in CCPs interest to change them around slightly as they do with everything [just look at PI] I cannot see it changing too much.

Regardless, missions do not follow the same laws given that there is an infinite supply of them.

This should be the way it works.

The problem is that the various sources of income seem to be somewhat out of balance, more so than they have been in the past. If the biggest easy income source drives up the prices, then the rest have to work harder to keep their head above water. So we all have to become incursion runners (or whatever FOTM), at least part time, and every other "profession" becomes a redundant hobby.

If the inflation is caused by one job standing head and shoulders above the rest, then the answer to every noob question "Is it profitable to do X?" becomes "No, run incursions", and we end up with a more boring homogeneous game.

As long as there are a number of viable professions, inflation shouldn't be a problem at all, and the game will remain fun.

Not really, it balances itself out.

The more people that do incursions, the less sites are available, more competitions. Heck, nowadays you can easily get 3 - 4 fleets on the gate to the same vg. That means 10 ppl get paid, 20 - 30 other people don't in the same amount of time.

How do you control the EVE economy when anyone can buy a PLEX out of game and turn it into isk?

GǪexcept that you cannot buy PLEX and turn it into ISK.

You can only buy PLEX and trade it for pre-existing ISK. PLEX are almost completely economy-neutral.

...if anything, we should be reviewing the current bounties on battleship NPCs.

We're looking at the economy constantly and looking at our options.

One of the fundamental issues we have is that we're making everyone "better" at making money, so the effect kind of snowballs. Right now we're considering everything form increasing taxes to lowering bounties across the board.

Someone already posted the numbers, the majority of isk in EVE comes off bounties and if anything, we should be reviewing the current bounties on battleship NPCs.

Fun Facts:

In the month of Feb:


~8.6T ISK in Incursion Payouts

~4.8T in Mission Rewards + Mission Bonuses
~32T in NPC bounty


So of the combined Incursion/Missions/Ratting/etc ISK faucet

~81% comes from non-Incursion activity


EDIT: Beaten. Damn you Soundwave!

If currently 16% of all the ISK from all activities available in Eve comes from Incursions, I cant see how anyone can claim that THIS is not an issue. Or are 16% of all players (not characters, mind you) involved in Incursion running? I guess not.

So your saying that there is a cap on the amount of isk in game? or are you saying that sell my plex to someone who earn't the isk from one of the many unlimited isk sources in game isn't effectively creating isk?

So your saying that there is a cap on the amount of isk in game? or are you saying that sell my plex to someone who earn't the isk from one of the many unlimited isk sources in game isn't effectively creating isk?

I believe Tippia is point out the following:

- When you run an incursion the ISK you obtain is spontaneously created from nothing

- When you sell a PLEX, the ISK you obtain was already in existence (where that ISK comes from is irrelevant, the point is that the ISK you personally obtain already existed in game because you obtained it through trade with another player)

The key comparison is between the incursion runner and the PLEX vendor, where as you appear to mistake the comparison to be between the incursion runner and the PLEX purchaser (which is a nonsensical one at best).

- Jumpclone USAGE fee

I see your point of view. However mine is that if you can create isk from nothing by running missions or what ever and your only motivation to create that is is to buy a PLEX, that PLEX is effectively creating isk just buy being on the market. The player is just the middle man between the isk seller and the unlimited sources of isk in game..

Learn math.

* numbers showing there is money in the system *

I see your point of view. However mine is that if you can create isk from nothing by running missions or what ever and your only motivation to create that is is to buy a PLEX, that PLEX is effectively creating isk just buy being on the market. The player is just the middle man between the isk seller and the unlimited sources of isk in game..

How much ISK was paid out over the same time period in insurance?
How does that amount compare with the other sources of income we are discussing?

Ship destruction should be an ISK sink, not an ISK faucet.

I realize the implications and issues that would have to be dealt with, but frankly Insurance either needs to go or be completely reworked.

This would bring balance to the force.

This isn't a point of view issue. You're just wrong.

True, which is why they have classically been a source of worryGǪ

GǪso when people are abandoning that infinite supply of ISK for something that's supposedly finite, that tells you something about what that finite activity can deliver, and why you should keep a very close eye on it.

We're looking at the economy constantly and looking at our options.

One of the fundamental issues we have is that we're making everyone "better" at making money, so the effect kind of snowballs. Right now we're considering everything form increasing taxes to lowering bounties across the board.

How much ISK was paid out over the same time period in insurance?
How does that amount compare with the other sources of income we are discussing?

Ship destruction should be an ISK sink, not an ISK faucet.

I realize the implications and issues that would have to be dealt with, but frankly Insurance either needs to go or be completely reworked.

This would bring balance to the force.

How much ISK was paid out over the same time period in insurance?
How does that amount compare with the other sources of income we are discussing?

Ship destruction should be an ISK sink, not an ISK faucet.

I realize the implications and issues that would have to be dealt with, but frankly Insurance either needs to go or be completely reworked.

This would bring balance to the force.

This does not alter the hard cap on the amount of ISK that can be generated from incursions. The same amount of ISK can be injected into the global economy if 1000 people run them or 1000000000000 people run them.

Assuming, that is, that there are not intangible benefits also created by incursion running.

Someone already posted the numbers, the majority of isk in EVE comes off bounties and if anything, we should be reviewing the current bounties on battleship NPCs.

Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally.

We're looking at the economy constantly and looking at our options.

One of the fundamental issues we have is that we're making everyone "better" at making money, so the effect kind of snowballs. Right now we're considering everything form increasing taxes to lowering bounties across the board.

Someone already posted the numbers, the majority of isk in EVE comes off bounties and if anything, we should be reviewing the current bounties on battleship NPCs.

For those discussing the insurance faucet:

~3.4T payed out
~1.6T payed in

So insurance injected about 1.8T in Feb.

People crying left and right on the forums about so called Incursion inflation when in reality the amount from bounties is astronomically higher a good chunk of that due to nullsec botting.

So 80%ish of all the ISK income comes from rats?

But, wouldn't rat bounty income have remained roughly stable over the last few years? Why would that cause prices to explode?

Because people fail at arithmetics and dont understand that 16% increase isk generation(incursions) can actually mean multiplying by a huge factor isk that stays in the economy

if people are abandoning an infinite ISK source to get to it, it is a cause for worry since it tells us that we're nowhere near that yet and it's already a significant contributor to the ISK supply.

And there is one. Your sec status goes up quite nicely when you pop Sansha BS. So one could very well keep running Incursions even if the wallet is about to explode already.

Except that "some" people fail to realize in this very same topic CCP said Incursions arent the problem.



Should I quote CCP about Incursions again? They aren't the issue here.

Should I quote CCP about Incursions again? They aren't the issue here.

This is all theory, given that we do not know the distribution of incursion ISK across security. IF incursions are only being run in highsec....ever.... then there is significant room for more injection once people start running them in low/null.

Not necessarily.

You may have a situation where the minimum number of people needed to harvest 100% of the total possible ISK (perfect efficiency) gives a greater ISK/hr than missions/ratting/etc

So long as the ISK/hr is greater people will move to incursions. Meaning that the distribution of total possible ISK is spread across more players, and yet the total injection remains the same.

This is all theory, given that we do not know the distribution of incursion ISK across security. IF incursions are only being run in highsec....ever.... then there is significant room for more injection once people start running them in low/null. However, when an incursion pops up in your deep-blue 0.0 sov sys it would be silly not to farm it like crazy (little risk) so I can only assume that SOME of the feb numbers include 0.0 space.

We're looking at the economy constantly and looking at our options.

One of the fundamental issues we have is that we're making everyone "better" at making money, so the effect kind of snowballs. Right now we're considering everything form increasing taxes to lowering bounties across the board.

Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally.

Someone already posted the numbers, the majority of isk in EVE comes off bounties and if anything, we should be reviewing the current bounties on battleship NPCs.

Sorry to quote it again but some here just don't get the point.

they have ALOT more data than you considering they WORK for the company.

Sorry to quote it again but some here just don't get the point. Incursions are not the issue. And yes they have ALOT more data than you considering they WORK for the company.

Sorry to quote it again but some here just don't get the point. Incursions are not the issue. And yes they have ALOT more data than you considering they WORK for the company.

Seriously any post by Endeavour Starfleet in threads about incursions should just be glossed over entirely because he doesn't want his risk-free 150m ISK/hour fountain touched

Cant figure the issues?

You have had a CCP member say without beating around the bush that Incursions aren't the big bad inflation monster I see so many posts make it out as. You know the fake numbers on incursion inflation y'all used to get the uninformed screaming in topics even tho they have never run an incursion.

Cant figure the issues? It says it RIGHT there. Incursions arent the problem.

You and the others screaming about incursions have lost. You have had a CCP member say without beating around the bush that Incursions aren't the big bad inflation monster I see so many posts make it out as. You know the fake numbers on incursion inflation y'all used to get the uninformed screaming in topics even tho they have never run an incursion.

Now instead of beating a dead horse how about trying to provide real solutions such as ways to encourage people to report the blue bots that ARE generating massive inflation.

If you want to stop inflation, you need to let inflation run its course in some sectors of the economy, the systemic imbalances are what need fixing. Make the use of ISK faucets more expensive in terms of materials consumed, and do it in a way that doesn't freak out carebears and lead to mass whines by blowing up ships from overly aggressive NPCs. One of the best ways I have seen suggested is material consumption via active modules, and that may help balance out some of the PVP issues as well.

Activities that do not create ISK from the faucets need a bump, but this does not mean allow some player to create more trit or moon goo. Stop dropping loot that can be refined, (drone poo change is a good start, adding ISK to drones however is a half step back but an easy fix so understandable). Create consumable goods, increase the mineral requirements of ammo, add some PI into ship building, lower end moon goo, add fuel to ABs and MWDs, charges for shied boosters and armour reps, multi-tier T1 production like T2 uses, etc. Increase consumption of raw materials by means other than just ships blowing up.

There is a significant portion of the player base that never goes out to PVP - this means they are not blowing things up. Eve's economy works because, in Eve, the Broken Window Fallacy, is not a fallacy, but that is true only up to a point. Not enough windows are breaking and all attempts at getting people to break more windows has failed, because for many individuals, not having windows broken on your own house is good thing. So ... if we can't get more windows to break, use more coal in the fire when making the glass.

The value in terms of time, of activities that are not sucking at the giant ISK tit, need to increase. The most useful sinks you could increase are material sinks.

Slowing down how much ISK enters the economy, will not fix the imbalances. All it will do is concentrate wealth in the hands of those who already have massive reserves. Increasing this sink or that sink will only push people away from those activities and create further imbalances in the economy.

As luck would have it, we do know that. Even if we assume that the highsec incursions are run at max efficiency, there's still roughly twice as much in untapped incursion income waiting in the systemGǪ

I did not see that one. Good catch!

Someone needs to ask him to break out bounties by security for feb.

Real numbers Tippia? So your "real" numbers beat CCPs even tho they have a market expert with access to their data.

Epic and I mean epic fail!

And Andski I know about the bot ban wave but it is not enough by far. And it dosen't help that blues are "encouraged" not to report blue bots with promises of sharing and ship replacement programs.

And I have called time and again for hisec bots to be reported tho I highly doubt they beat the numbers in nullsec. Report them anyway because the more bots banned the better!

Cant figure the issues? It says it RIGHT there. Incursions arent the problem.

Real numbers Tippia? So your "real" numbers beat CCPs even tho they have a market expert with access to their data.

Epic and I mean epic fail!

I did not see that one. Good catch!

Someone needs to ask him to break out bounties by security for feb.

How about these nullbears start reporting blue bots before screaming about incursions?

I did not see that one. Good catch!

Someone needs to ask him to break out bounties by security for feb.

What it does show as well as even though low and nullsec incursions have a very high payout and can be done with low cost ships they don't get done. Why is that? They supposedly have higher pay than anoms? right?

Or is it that even with the free Cyno jams and ability to run with far less and make more still. They don't get run because its interfering with the real income source which in my opinion is mass scale botting.

Don't give me that crap about numbers online. VGs require a small amount of people.

Wrong. PvP is an isk faucet due to insurance. Try harder.

How do you feel about risk/reward imbalances between high-sec incursions and nullsec anomalies?

2/10

What it does show as well as even though low and nullsec incursions have a very high payout and can be done with low cost ships they don't get done. Why is that? They supposedly have higher pay than anoms? right?

Not possible right now. Like all political bodies, the CSM is corrupt on some levels. You have null representatives who punish their own members who report blue bots. RMT is big business when the convesion ratio is highly profitable in a country that has a broken economy or if you currently are not employed at all.

Farm bounties in 0.0 for an hour. Proceed to farm incursions in high-sec for an hour. See where you make more ISK.

Hint: It's not the 0.0 bounties.

That they are balanced minus the issue of AFK cloaking which I already proposed a solution for. With Blitzing VGs are on a bit of the high side but I am not too worried about that because I know eventually the blitzing part will be changed. HQs and As could use a buff tho.

You see I do not like the idea of bounty nerf. I think it will legitimately harm active players and yes greatly change the balance to favor hisec again. Instead I'm going to call as much as I can for action on botting.

You are a goon right? Rumor is the norm is "Don't $*&^ over other goons" Help prevent this madness by reporting the blue bots you see. As my opinion seems to mean little if they are bent on nerfing bounties eh?

sorry to spoil your lil rant but GSF and TEST have been running lowsec incursions since the damn things were released, we even got the first revenant BPC drop! heh!

now here's a better question: why would anyone bother running incursions in lowsec (or, hahahaha nullsec), jumping around in carriers with PvE ships in the hold and scouting all over the place when they can fork over a few billion for a shiny faction BS and farm them in high-sec with significantly less risk of losing ships?

Please tell me exactly how my alliance's leadership would enforce the "don't report blue bots" rule.

Wrong. PvP is an isk faucet due to insurance. Try harder.

Nullsec pays better. ALOT better. Goons know that as they run them.

You can try to defend the actions of other alliances all you want but the sheer amount of nullsecs that pop without intervention speaks for itself in my opinion.

Farm bounties in 0.0 for an hour. Proceed to farm incursions in high-sec for an hour. See where you make more ISK.

Hint: It's not the 0.0 bounties.

Incursions? The cause of this thing this weekend?

Not so sure about that.

If battleship bounties get nerfed you will have a lot of angry high sec missioners. Remember those are the bulk of your costumers.
TIme to go mining i guess?

Farm bounties in 0.0 for an hour. Proceed to farm incursions in high-sec for an hour. See where you make more ISK.

Hint: It's not the 0.0 bounties.

Not saying goons do this but I have heard of people expelled and blacklisted for bot reporting. Of course it would likely involve someone telling another blue or saying in corp or alliance that they had reported or spotted a bot.

Don't have to actually remove that many members. If many think you have the power to spot them reporting. You get the point.


Edit: My main point is encouraging you and others to start getting serious about reporting blue bots before they really do end up lowering bounty payments.

Incursions are (currently) significantly less than bounties in terms of ISK injection.

Knowing how feb's bounty numbers break out will give some idea (albeit inferential) about where the biggest ISK faucet is in EVE.

If people are worried about hyper-inflation caused by ISK faucets, which I think is pretty lolworthy....but it is my opinion, then knowing where the biggest faucet is necessary.


Hint: It is not currently Incursions

Seriously any post by Endeavour Starfleet in threads about incursions should just be glossed over entirely because he doesn't want his risk-free 150m ISK/hour fountain touched

We're looking at the economy constantly and looking at our options.

One of the fundamental issues we have is that we're making everyone "better" at making money, so the effect kind of snowballs. Right now we're considering everything form increasing taxes to lowering bounties across the board.

The day when i have to agree with a goon is a sad day indeed.

Incursions are (currently) significantly less than bounties in terms of ISK injection.

Knowing how feb's bounty numbers break out will give some idea (albeit inferential) about where the biggest ISK faucet is in EVE.

Top level income for incursions is less than 100m/hour in optimal conditions. There is already noticable competition in sites to make ISK, and it's likely competition will increase as more people find it's not as hard/risky as it used to be. It's still not 100% safe though, I have seen faction battleships explode recently.

Not empty quoting anther clueless post about " i dont understand that introducing what would think is small isk injection(18%) can actually multiply amount of isk retained in a economy by huge factor"

ahaha look at you calling me a nullbear when you literally never leave high-sec or PvP at all

hisec "shiny" fleets can milk vanguards at well over 100m/hour, fyi

Not empty quoting another clueless post about "I don't understand that a new income source, however much lacking balance by a new isk-sink, is not the problem unless it is, itself, injecting greater amounts of ISK than it should." Whether it is the straw that breaks the camels back is irrelevant.

The straw that breaks the camels back: Incursions
The anvil already on the camel's back: Bounties.

Which one is the root of the problem?

The straw that breaks the camels back: Incursions
The anvil already on the camel's back: Bounties.

Which one is the root of the problem?

The straw that breaks the camels back: Incursions
The anvil already on the camel's back: Bounties.

Which one is the root of the problem?

Shall I assume that's from your long experience as a member of a hisec shiny fleet, or are you pulling that fact from your rectum?

I regularly talk to shinyfleet FCs, if that's what you're asking.

"Please leave my no-risk ISK fountain alone and nerf the already pathetic income from 0.0 bounties"

"Inflation!"

"Why you keep using that word... I do not think it meaans what you think it means."

Look, inflation hurts only a few classes of people: Old People, Children, people on some types of welfare or fixed income, and the poor.

What do they have in common? Unemployment.

You have a job in EvE... we all do. Inflation is a non-factor because everyone (but people who only play NPCs and f-em anyway) will see their income go up proportionally with the inflation of the currency. It's totally a non-issue!

The only thing coming out of nullsec of late is 'nerf highsec, nerf wormholes, lowsec is fine, buff nullsec' with little regard to the fact that you need income to support a PvP lifestyle, and if you nerf highsec enough, all you're going to accomplish is that the only way to get out of highsec is in the arms of an entrenched and bloated nullsec coalition.

Except if the payment for said job doesn't rise with the rising costs of things, your point is moot. When was the last time you got a "raise" in EVE. Level 4s pay the same as they ever did, yet everything costs more.

Edit: Ok fine "industrialists" might get raises, but marketeers (assuming price margin remains the same even though the actual price of an item rises), mission runners, and ratters don't see any increase in the rewards for their effots.

Bottomline: Nerfhammer Incursions PLEASE

Top level income for incursions is less than It wasn't what I was asking, but you did indirectly answer it. No, you do not participate in incursions, and they in fact are relatively lessening your income a little bit, but you are quite certain from an unbiased standpoint that they need nerfed. Coincidentally, so does Scissors.

The only thing coming out of nullsec of late is 'nerf highsec, nerf wormholes, lowsec is fine, buff nullsec' with little regard to the fact that you need income to support a PvP lifestyle, and if you nerf highsec enough, all you're going to accomplish is that the only way to get out of highsec is in the arms of an entrenched and bloated nullsec coalition.

Except if the payment for said job doesn't rise with the rising costs of things, your point is moot. When was the last time you got a "raise" in EVE.

Where does the idea to nerf highsec (and just highsec) ever come in the minds of people wanting to fix inflation? NPC bounties are much, much more plentiful in nullsec than in highsec, incursions pay out a lot more in dangerous areas than highsec. Even ship deaths you may suffer while generating NPC bounties end up adding even more ISK into the economy.

Incursions are not a big issue in terms of isk globally.

What make you think we dont?

We simply do not police for CCP.

Where does the idea to nerf highsec (and just highsec) ever come in the minds of people wanting to fix inflation? NPC bounties are much, much more plentiful in nullsec than in highsec, incursions pay out a lot more in dangerous areas than highsec. Even ship deaths you may suffer while generating NPC bounties end up adding even more ISK into the economy.

UMAD?!?!

Seems like Soundwave just promised us that he won't be nerfing Incursions but will instead focus on bounties via ratting, anoms, and missions.

The real solution is not to try to pin the nerf to one specific area of the game, as there isn't a specific mechanic causing the inflation singularly. It's to do an all around slight nerf to income, which will result in a net no-change to people's wealth.

The thing that's not helping is people trying to bandwagon this as another nerf-highsec thread.

Soundwave also wanted to sell us back saved fitting slots that was allready there before they were removed.

Who cares ?

This assumes that inflation is a bad thing. It is NOT. The materials sector is not the problem at all... you are ignoring a critical difference between material faucets and NPC payment faucets: Material price levels are set by player demand vs. supply. This relationship is balanced by the EvE economy and is not a problem at all. When mineral prices rise more miners find it profitable and worth while to mine. When mineral prices fall, fewer people mine. It's not the mineral supply that determines market price... it's labor supply!!!
When EvE pays you directly in ISK, the market doesn't get a say and that is where the problems pop up.

This is incoherent. The problem is not anemic consumption but a market economy trying to balance itself against NPC payments/entitlements.

I agree with the first sentence but not the last. Mining floats with the economy however, and does not represent "sucking at the great ISK tit" in my view.

Read this and then read this. You clearly haven't read a thing I've said.

My point is precisely that anywhere the EvE system is paying people directly in ISK for something there is a problem. I don't want to nerf incursions. I want to remove all EvE system ISK payouts entirely and replace them with something you can sell on the market. It's the only way to achieve any kind of balance that doesn't require CCP to constantly intervene. My point isn't moot you just didn't read anything in this thread.

BTW - I get raises in EvE every day the market inflates. So do most people. The only people who's paychecks don't keep pace with inflation are people who play exclusively PvE content. Your knowledge of market mechanics explains why you keep getting passed up for that raise...

You had better get started then eh? Considering their next step is to nerf bounties. If nullsec folks can report blue bots and people get serious about reporting hisec bots. Inflation may be able to be stopped. Or atleast slowed to acceptable levels.

The real solution is not to try to pin the nerf to one specific area of the game, as there isn't a specific mechanic causing the inflation singularly. It's to do an all around slight nerf to income, which will result in a net no-change to people's wealth.

The thing that's not helping is people trying to bandwagon this as another nerf-highsec thread.

Removing bots will do very little to stop the massive inflation going on.

Just curious, are there any numbers for what bounty isk facets were like pre-incursions for comparison? I'm curious to see how much isk influx from other activities decreased if any as a result of their introduction.

We're looking at the economy constantly and looking at our options.

One of the fundamental issues we have is that we're making everyone "better" at making money, so the effect kind of snowballs. Right now we're considering everything form increasing taxes to lowering bounties across the board.

Just curious, are there any numbers for what bounty isk facets were like pre-incursions for comparison? I'm curious to see how much isk influx from other activities decreased if any as a result of their introduction.

Are you serious? Or are you a botter yourself?

[quote=CCP Soundwave]
Love makes pretty blind, you know. We all know how much you love your baby that is Incursions. Please don't cuddle it until it dies.

Seems like Soundwave just promised us that he won't be nerfing Incursions but will instead focus on bounties via ratting, anoms, and missions. I'm very curious how that's gonna pan out - I suppose that there's (theoretically?) an absolute cap to the Incursion faucet, so it'll really emphasize the income differential between high sec Incursions and other high end activities like L5s and high level WH ops.

I guess the net result is that high sec incursion runners will become even more fantastically wealthy compared to everyone else, and Shiny Fleet will be the only way to make ISK at it?

It'll be interesting!

-Liang

Nothing to do with inflation, but again, Incursions are terrible for the EVE universe for more than just inflation.

Should I quote CCP about Incursions again?

You're aware that we're making adjustments to Incursions right? I've never said we didn't need to look at Incursion income in isolation, the point I made was that in terms of money coming into the economy, bounties are a massive issue. I'm not entirely sure why some of you keep insisting that it's either or.

Do Incursions need looking at? Absolutely, that's already been done and is awaiting deployment. Are Incursions the big issue in terms of isk coming into the economy? Not even remotely.

I think you can go check out Tippia's rants for some numbers gathered from dev posts all over the forums throughout the years. IIRC missions and bounties have basically remained unchanged for years while Incursions provide what amounts to a wholly new ISK faucet.

-Liang