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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Torso Addenda
Nihilists LLC
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Posted - 2008.08.15 17:53:00 -
[331]
Au contraire, I fly both Cheetah and Falcon, and I've never personally been ganked by an AFK cloaker. When Burn Eden or Goonswarm black ops came to play, I just moved income ops to a part of the region distant from transit bottlenecks or station/outpost systems.
The issue is simply that the tactic, AFK cloaking, requires no vigilance at all, and fits fairly optimized for PvP ganking, whereas the counter, requires eternal vigilance, and fits that are less optimized for their own role. Yes, its possible to counter, but as I said, the counter requires a magnitude more effort and lost productivity than the tactic itself, and infinitely more if the player is in fact AFK.
Make cloaks probeable and you can go AFK all you like. At present the system does not work in the favor of CCP's revenue. And that's the only important question.
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Taram Caldar
Noir.
Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.15 18:02:00 -
[332]
Edited by: Taram Caldar on 15/08/2008 18:03:11
 Originally by: Torso Addenda
Au contraire, I fly both Cheetah and Falcon, and I've never personally been ganked by an AFK cloaker. When Burn Eden or Goonswarm black ops came to play, I just moved income ops to a part of the region distant from transit bottlenecks or station/outpost systems.
The issue is simply that the tactic, AFK cloaking, requires no vigilance at all, and fits fairly optimized for PvP ganking, whereas the counter, requires eternal vigilance, and fits that are less optimized for their own role. Yes, its possible to counter, but as I said, the counter requires a magnitude more effort and lost productivity than the tactic itself, and infinitely more if the player is in fact AFK.
Make cloaks probeable and you can go AFK all you like. At present the system does not work in the favor of CCP's revenue. And that's the only important question.
Nonsense
The counter for AFK cloakers is exactly the same practics anyone living in 0.0 should be doing EVERY SINGLE MOMENT they are in space. Period.
If you live in 0.0 you should:
- Always watch local and overview for hostiles
- Always be aligned to a safespot or pos
- Always carry a point if at all possible
- Always warp out the first moment you see a potential hostile show up on overview.
- Always be ganged with other active pilots in system for mutual support/defense. You DONT need an active fleet for this. 4 or 5 ratting ravens showing up with points fitted is MORE than enough to scare off ANY 'afk cloaker' when they decide to show up. At least long enough for everyone to get safe.
The only reason people don't do these all the time?
Laziness and GREED. Ratters don't want to gang up because 'Zomg someone might show up in my belt and get part of my bounties!!!!' I've lived in 0.0 most of my EVE life... trust me... I've actually witnessed people saying this. It is NOT hard to counter cloakers. Not at all.
Ask Pandemic Legion how many times they caught me in a belt when they were camping RISE into the RHG cluster (hint: 0) ;) When I wasn't out fighting them I was actively ratting (and mining on my alt) right under their noses the entire time. And trust me... that was a LOT more than 1 or 2 AFK cloakers to deal with. But even in that situation yes absolutely our alliance forums were filled with moaning about 'afk cloakers are ebil' blah blah blah.
Bottom line: Learn to live in 0.0 or stay in empire.
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Zachstar
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Posted - 2008.08.15 18:08:00 -
[333]
Originally by: Callib Gor'Karrithe
There's a pretty simple solution to this. We all need to go to the nearest locator agent and hunt down the OP. Then, collectively, we will ALL sit in his space, cloaked and AFK.
They're just lonely and trying to encourage more of the same activity... they're just not too good at asking about it.
That's really what this is all about, isn't it? You're just lonely. Dont' worry. We'll all help you out!!
:: heads off to the nearest locator to begin his work ::
Great way to encourage people to post with their main eh?
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Zachstar
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Posted - 2008.08.15 18:16:00 -
[334]
Absolutely hilarious that people are telling noncloakers to learn to live in 00 when they don't want to learn to double click every 10-30 mins... And learn to actually be on the computer instead of taking a shower and going to sleep.. While they have perfect safety while having an effect..
It was like when the hisec gankers told people to tank for their 10-20 blaster batships that they always could afford to lose because standings were easy to get and there way always insurance to make the kill extremely profitable..
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Empyre
Domestic Reform
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Posted - 2008.08.15 18:20:00 -
[335]
i can't believe i'm about to post this as i absolutely hate the ease of playability the role of an afk cloaker has versus almost any other role in eve. God i can't believe i'm about to say this..
but you can counter it. you just need presence and security. think about it this way. if you had a company with a staff that only worked 8 hours a day, you built a building in a bad area and filled it full of capital assets, would you leave the doors unlocked when you aren't there simply because you don't agree with illegal tactics of thieves and burglars? i think not.
now afk cloaking isn't illegal (yet, hopefully) but the same theory can be applied here. make sure that you have enough people in your corp to cover all the time zones of the people who need protected. otherwise, this stuff will happen.
if your corp doesn't have people in employ that will pvp to protect you while you want to rat/mine then convince them to hire some or find another corp. because dissent will eventually tear the unprotected people from the ranks, and maybe even the rest that follow. and this is what afk cloakers hope for.. the ultimate grief.
Destroy all that which is evil, so that which is good may flourish. |
Zachstar
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Posted - 2008.08.15 18:35:00 -
[336]
Edited by: Zachstar on 15/08/2008 18:40:33
Originally by: Empyre
i can't believe i'm about to post this as i absolutely hate the ease of playability the role of an afk cloaker has versus almost any other role in eve. God i can't believe i'm about to say this..
but you can counter it. you just need presence and security. think about it this way. if you had a company with a staff that only worked 8 hours a day, you built a building in a bad area and filled it full of capital assets, would you leave the doors unlocked when you aren't there simply because you don't agree with illegal tactics of thieves and burglars? i think not.
now afk cloaking isn't illegal (yet, hopefully) but the same theory can be applied here. make sure that you have enough people in your corp to cover all the time zones of the people who need protected. otherwise, this stuff will happen.
if your corp doesn't have people in employ that will pvp to protect you while you want to rat/mine then convince them to hire some or find another corp. because dissent will eventually tear the unprotected people from the ranks, and maybe even the rest that follow. and this is what afk cloakers hope for.. the ultimate grief.
And they get it for free.. I am perfectly fine with a cloaker watching the results of him hanging around and changing direction "Jinking".
The problem is not about that.. Its the fact that he can do with with absolutely no effort once he is in.. He can go take a bath.. Go to the movies.. Go to sleep.. Whatever with perfect safety..
I will admit tho that the BIGGEST problem comes from cloaker fleets.. And I am glad it seems it is being noticed and dealt with.. So don't think I am just targeting the covops guys..
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Qinglong Zhong
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Posted - 2008.08.15 18:36:00 -
[337]
Originally by: Ghostthor
You sir, just made my black books.
Not kew.
-hOr
...but Mojo Lux and someone named N0vix sent me.
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Fir Q
Minmatar
Trident Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.08.15 19:16:00 -
[338]
wow this thing is still going?
and lol @ TNT claiming they made our lives miserable. right... lol.
Anyways, take this to the Features and Ideas Discussion Forum already.
Fir Q |
Pithecanthropus
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Posted - 2008.08.15 19:24:00 -
[339]
Originally by: Taram Caldar
Countering an AFK cloaker is simple:
Fly in a ship that carries a point (yes, even a hulk can do this)
Be ganged with other active pilots in system (so they can come to your aid)
Be aligned when ratting/mining
Warp out if a red/neut shows up on overview.
The mechanic is not broken. The perception of people who don't like it is.
I have no problem doing that if all of us involved can be reassured there is actually a human being behind the other computer. Can you comprehend that? If you are there anyway, you should have no reason why you would be against a cloaking change to insure this. Right?
Would you fish in a lake if it was empty?
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Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man. |
Mojo Lux
Killer Koalas
Kingdom of Butan
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Posted - 2008.08.15 19:50:00 -
[340]
Originally by: Qinglong Zhong
Originally by: Ghostthor
You sir, just made my black books.
Not kew.
-hOr
...but Mojo Lux and someone named N0vix sent me.
Hehehe, I wouldn't worry too much Qinglong. According to some very knowledgeable people in this thread Ghostie is either in the shower or sleeping 23 hours a day all the while enjoying an incredibly unfair tactical advantage which robs ratters/miners of the ability to defend themselves, organize ops, correctly fit their ships, watch local/scanner, rat in pairs, align properly, or even seek out alternative systems.
Besides, Novix and I have been in Ghost'sblack books for ages and nothing really happens. 
Oh, and thank you for mentioning your .1 isk Wub Donation I almost forgot to send mine in today (horror!)
Mojo 
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Machelli
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Posted - 2008.08.15 20:39:00 -
[341]
Something terribly amusing to think of: If (when) they ever decide to do away with local then AFK cloaking will no longer be an issue... you won't even know they're there, just as if they had logged off...
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Mag's
MASS
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Posted - 2008.08.15 20:53:00 -
[342]
Again I'll post and hope for an answer from the nerf jockeys.
So how many ships does an AFK cloaker kill, whilst AFK?
And if there is an AFK cloaker in a system, does that stop the use of Stargates to move to another system?
If you did move to another system and the AFK cloaker entered said system, then he/she wouldn't be AFK and that would be like watching local for enemies anyway, wouldn't it?
Surely at that point, normal safety precautions would apply and the Corp/Alliance you were in would act.
Sorry but... what is the issue here?
Mag's
Originally by: Avernus
One of these days, the realization that MASS is no longer significant will catch up with you. |
Zachstar
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Posted - 2008.08.15 22:35:00 -
[343]
Originally by: Machelli
Something terribly amusing to think of: If (when) they ever decide to do away with local then AFK cloaking will no longer be an issue... you won't even know they're there, just as if they had logged off...
Except for the gate letting everyone know a Covops entered system..
You think local is just going to go away?
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Soul Redemption
Caldari
xtort
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Posted - 2008.08.15 22:36:00 -
[344]
s
Does this Ion supercharging Death Beam makes me look FAT?! *Zaaappp*
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Zachstar
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Posted - 2008.08.15 22:38:00 -
[345]
Originally by: Pithecanthropus
Originally by: Taram Caldar
Countering an AFK cloaker is simple:
Fly in a ship that carries a point (yes, even a hulk can do this)
Be ganged with other active pilots in system (so they can come to your aid)
Be aligned when ratting/mining
Warp out if a red/neut shows up on overview.
The mechanic is not broken. The perception of people who don't like it is.
I have no problem doing that if all of us involved can be reassured there is actually a human being behind the other computer. Can you comprehend that? If you are there anyway, you should have no reason why you would be against a cloaking change to insure this. Right?
Would you fish in a lake if it was empty?
Before you know it they will be saying they have the right to use Macros and hacks...
Its silly how hostile people get when you go against their unbalanced style of play.. Or taking a shower.. Or going to sleep while the computer burns power..
Just like the hisec gankers..
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Zachstar
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Posted - 2008.08.16 07:34:00 -
[346]
Originally by: Soul Redemption
s
ay what?
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Dez Affinity
Ore Mongers
Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.08.16 08:42:00 -
[347]
Originally by: Zachstar
Before you know it they will be saying they have the right to use Macros and hacks...
Its silly how hostile people get when you go against their unbalanced style of play.. Or taking a shower.. Or going to sleep while the computer burns power..
Just like the hisec gankers..
Ohhh, you are trolling, fell for it myself.
_______________
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Laila Eldgorn
Caldari
Certified Household Sweeping Consulting
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Posted - 2008.08.16 08:59:00 -
[348]
There could be afk timer which logs you out after being cloaked and afk for x minutes/hours. However, cloak is vital equipment for those who're not part of decreasing number of naptrains.
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Po3tank
Amarr
Basgerin Pirate
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Posted - 2008.08.16 09:40:00 -
[349]
Edited by: Po3tank on 16/08/2008 09:41:27
just jump to the next system.watch for a local bump if it is the supposed afk cloaker that jumps in then that means he is not afk and you should deal with the problem accordingley 
FLAME TIME
your a ****ing fool if you cant click the jump button or even possabley protect yourself,hell even dock up.plz do somthing besides cry becuse your world is not 100% safe.
this is a mass multiplayer online game not a singleplayer game.get some friends and kll the hoe. 
/thread
edit:and plz dont put a damn afk timer in this game.I alrdy lose my connection to the server enuff.
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal |
techzer0
Minmatar Mafia
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Posted - 2008.08.16 09:44:00 -
[350]
Originally by: Pithecanthropus
Originally by: Drunk Driver
Originally by: Pithecanthropus
A cloak is simply too powerful of a module. I don't know if a timer is the fix, maybe it's fuel... but its definitely in line for a change.
How about we have cloaked ships just randomly decloak and start spewing sparks?
How about we have cloaked ships use fuel so you can't sit afk and then go play with your G.I. Joe dolls?
Not that bad of an idea... if I can carry a few hours of fuel for long roams
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CCP > Let's play the nerf a race game! Next up minmatar! |
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Xviix
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.08.16 10:15:00 -
[351]
I agree that its lame, therre needs to be some type of counter measure 2 stop it from being exploited
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Mag's
MASS
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Posted - 2008.08.16 10:29:00 -
[352]
It speaks volumes that Zachstar and the other nerf jockeys, cannot answer my questions. 
Mag's
Originally by: Avernus
One of these days, the realization that MASS is no longer significant will catch up with you. |
Dr Slaughter
Minmatar
Rabies Inc.
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Posted - 2008.08.16 11:18:00 -
[353]
Originally by: Mag's
It speaks volumes that Zachstar and the other nerf jockeys, cannot answer my questions.
Not 'can't' but 'won't' because they don't like the answer.
This thread really hasn't added anything new to the debate that's come and gone for years really has it?
Anyway forget about the nerf jockeys they just can't play the game properly.
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Siberys
Gallente
Nebula Sharks
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Posted - 2008.08.16 11:19:00 -
[354]
Edited by: Siberys on 16/08/2008 11:18:54
Originally by: Sweet Laylah
Alliance name says it all tbh
QTF
PvE is VERY SERIOUS BUSINESS... |
Rikeka
Amarr
Eye of God
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.08.16 12:05:00 -
[355]
Originally by: Ghostthor
All of this for little ol' me?
I'm sorry.
-hOr
PS Rade if ANYONE sends me 0.1 isk, I'm ocming to 'visit' you...
PSS You should be worried I play 23/7
Booo!
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Zachstar
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Posted - 2008.08.16 17:43:00 -
[356]
Originally by: Laila Eldgorn
There could be afk timer which logs you out after being cloaked and afk for x minutes/hours. However, cloak is vital equipment for those who're not part of decreasing number of naptrains.
Why make it so complicated? A simple 15 mins of no activity means deactivation of modules time will do quite fine..
No need to turn this into the double whammy the hisec gankers got when they could not accept that Insurance for Concord kills was wrong..
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Xeronn
Amarr
Ordo Drakonis
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.08.16 21:44:00 -
[357]
FLAME TIME
your a ****ing fool if you cant click the jump button or even possabley protect yourself,hell even dock up.plz do somthing besides cry becuse your world is not 100% safe.
this is a mass multiplayer online game not a singleplayer game.get some friends and kll the hoe. Laughing
/thread
And why wouldn`t the cloaker have to do the same eh? Can you actually read your posts? You are ridiculous . You go about how harsh eve is and how everyone should ALLWAYS be in a pvp fit and in a fleet and cary a point and a NOS and whatever...EVERYONE except the cloaker?
This isn`t about the raters not able to protect themselves, this isn`t about griefed people , this is about a game mechanic misused and abused to provide 100% safety Anywhere while still affecting the gameplay of others .
I don`t give a frack really if the cloaker is afk or not what i care about is that fact that i have NO way whatsoever to bring upon him the praised non-consensual PvP he claims to love so much . But the nerve to sugest that a red in local doesnt matter (the "so what can he do if he`s cloaked argument) is...OMFG..
Ok what i want to say is that the "targets" , the "defenders" should allways have the option to agressively pursue the threat and remove it , not only the option to wait it out . To sugest otherwise is either incredibly arrogant or down right stupid .
You would love EvE PvP to be a twisted-version of arena PvP ? where in an arena ussualy both sides agree on when to enter arena/engage , you`d like it t have that option just to yourself ...and wave your e-peen about how good you are at griefing and how eve is about nonconsensual PvP while you`d go to any lengths to avoid nonconsensual PvP .
Newsflash : nonconsensual PvP means someone can force PvP on you aswell as you can force PvP on someone else...it should Never work 100% one way . Sure , tactics, manouvering and deciding when to fight and when to run is great but it becomes broken when one side has 100% ability to decide when to fight and when to stay safe . But then again this is what nanos/WCS`s/cloaking is all about isn`t it?
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Dr Slaughter
Minmatar
Rabies Inc.
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Posted - 2008.08.16 22:15:00 -
[358]
Edited by: Dr Slaughter on 16/08/2008 22:25:29
Originally by: Xeronn
i have NO way whatsoever to bring upon him the praised non-consensual PvP he claims to love so much.
So a bait ship with points a large buffer and mates in the next system won't work? Are you for real?
Ok. I guess you are.
Just out of interest... please could all those posters that want cloaks nerfing help CCP decide that it's definitely a problem. Go through all your loss mails and identify all the times you've been killed by a until recently cloaked ship. I don't care about AFK or otherwise. I'm interested in:
1. How many ships you've lost to 'recently cloaked' ships,
2. The distribution of the type of ships you lost,
3. Where you lost them (0.0, low sec, hi sec).
Then do the same thing for all your other losses and compare and contrast. Please post your results here. I'm sure it will make fascinating reading for both sides of this argument.
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EveJoker
Minmatar
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.08.16 22:19:00 -
[359]
Edited by: EveJoker on 16/08/2008 22:23:07
Edited by: EveJoker on 16/08/2008 22:22:32
Edited by: EveJoker on 16/08/2008 22:21:35
Ive seen cloaking from both sides of the fence.
Cloakers are there for a reason, I saw it as a challange and enjoyed baiting them out.
Nowdays I would rather upset people more by killing "their" systems, but pos warefare sucks so much and I get a similar reaction from cloaking.
Nerf cloaking and the whiners will start on about login traps.
Edit: oh and its not like you dont have access to cyno jammers, jump bridges, safe pos and stations. Nerf docking tbh.
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Pithecanthropus
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Posted - 2008.08.17 01:34:00 -
[360]
If you can't cloak and monitor your computer, playing Eve is far too complicated for you. What you are all calling a nerf to cloaks, is simply an assurance that you are playing.
If you can't do that.... OMFG, leave.
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Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man. |
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