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AFK Cloaking, Really?

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Paramite Pies	Posted - 2008.08.17 01:45:00 - [361] Originally by: Torso Addenda 2) If we want to keep the present cloaking system, I suggest a trade that many will appreciate: all players have a afk timer of 10 minutes, and in return, cloakers are no longer visible on local. The character list on local offers the option of sorting the list by alphabet or by time elapsed since any player first appeared in system. Therefore, sorted by time elapsed, cloaker ships would appear briefly at the top of the list and immediately disappear, allowing all in system at that time to be aware of the presence of predators. This! In my opinion, a AFK timer of 10-30 minutes should be implemented to many situations, not just cloaking. But I like this idea. As it doesn't really effect no one else, but definitely eases the issue of this topic. Torso Addenda, I approve your idea.
Herring Caldari Alcatraz Inc. Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.08.17 01:52:00 - [362] There's some whinging going on here. While I don't care for the afk cloakers (I believe the mechanic gives them the chance to dictate too many terms of engagement too easily, at any point they choose when they ARE online), my real beef with afk cloaking is with certain exploration complexes that are being held open by afk cloakers so that others cannot complete them. This, I have a problem with. Cloaking should be disabled within deadspace complexes. Period.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar Oyster Colors	Posted - 2008.08.17 03:21:00 - [363] While I agree that playing afk psycho games is pretty cheesy if its overdone (23/7 dedicating a whole account might get in that direction), you have to see the other side as well: the time needed to warp in on a possible target after entering system makes it virtually impossible to catch anyone that watches local, no matter what you do he'll be safespotted and cloaked or docked up until you leave. The only way to catch that kind of pilot is to have him getting used to your presence, and it takes a lot of time to get a coward to undock/uncloak, so I'd say valid tactic until the field is leveled in that respect. Its supposed to be low-/nullsec for a reason, and even if its your secured space you should never be completely safe.
oilio Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.08.17 03:36:00 - [364] Originally by: Herring There's some whinging going on here. While I don't care for the afk cloakers (I believe the mechanic gives them the chance to dictate too many terms of engagement too easily, at any point they choose when they ARE online), my real beef with afk cloaking is with certain exploration complexes that are being held open by afk cloakers so that others cannot complete them. This, I have a problem with. Cloaking should be disabled within deadspace complexes. Period. Yeah, that's fair enough - that's more like an exploit.
Mortuus Minmatar Fat J Elitist Cowards	Posted - 2008.08.17 03:44:00 - [365] It makes me sad that someone in my alliance started this.... Also, I have been trying to get this guy to try and jump me while ratting for a few days, sadly he has not =( Seriously, learn to fight back, you can rat in a pvp fit no problem. Occassus Republica <3
Po3tank Amarr Basgerin Pirate	Posted - 2008.08.17 03:47:00 - [366] Quote: . Sure , tactics, manouvering and deciding when to fight and when to run is great but it becomes broken when one side has 100% ability to decide when to fight and when to stay safe . rating ships are not ment for pvp im sry your ship fitting cant i win button the claoker but you need to deffend your home instead of carebear.... use a little somthing called tactics. exp.you jump into the next system and then the afk cloaker jumps in, kill him end of story. if you are in lowsec/0.0 and you are unable to kill the cloaker with valid tactics instead of crying nerf you dont deserve to be in a 0.4 and bellow systems.go into high sec where you belong.
Beardponderer You're Doing It Wrong	Posted - 2008.08.17 04:16:00 - [367] Yes, really.
C4LYP50 HeXstoof	Posted - 2008.08.17 05:27:00 - [368] Originally by: Helox Can't CCP make it that I have to click a box that allows other people to engage in combat with me? Ummm..............they have! The "Undock Button" Brunette By Birth...............Blonde By Nature. ------------------------------------------------- "Your shrieks of agony are Divine" "No tears, please; it's a waste of good suffering" - Pi
Xeronn Amarr Ordo Drakonis Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.17 05:59:00 - [369] Originally by: Dr Slaughter Edited by: Dr Slaughter on 16/08/2008 22:25:29 Originally by: Xeronn i have NO way whatsoever to bring upon him the praised non-consensual PvP he claims to love so much. So a bait ship with points a large buffer and mates in the next system won't work? Are you for real? Ok. I guess you are. Just out of interest... please could all those posters that want cloaks nerfing help CCP decide that it's definitely a problem. Go through all your loss mails and identify all the times you've been killed by a until recently cloaked ship. I don't care about AFK or otherwise. I'm interested in: 1. How many ships you've lost to 'recently cloaked' ships, 2. The distribution of the type of ships you lost, 3. Where you lost them (0.0, low sec, hi sec). Then do the same thing for all your other losses and compare and contrast. Please post your results here. I'm sure it will make fascinating reading for both sides of this argument. Ok you have a good point there . Personaly last thing i lost to a cloaker (if i remember right ) was a hulk, and yea, I was afk , Oklet me try to rephrase I find it great that a smaller force, IF really determined , using tactics/isk/skill/coordonation, can get past system defences unharmed , go in , cause damage and get out ...guerilla warfare...awessome...player skills and tactics should allways matter and should never be totaly undone by simple game mechanics. But now reverse the issue . Shouldn`t a very determined /resourcefull/skilled (hehe not me...just a hypothetical one) defender be able to ACTIVELY pursue and stand a chanche to catch/kill the attackers? Note that I say actively , I mean having a way to tacke the initiative and not simply beeing ready for the time you decide to take the initiative and fight . Sure if he` dumb hell fall for random bait...
Xeronn Amarr Ordo Drakonis Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.17 06:16:00 - [370] Originally by: Po3tank Quote: . Sure , tactics, manouvering and deciding when to fight and when to run is great but it becomes broken when one side has 100% ability to decide when to fight and when to stay safe . rating ships are not ment for pvp im sry your ship fitting cant i win button the claoker but you need to deffend your home instead of carebear.... use a little somthing called tactics. exp.you jump into the next system and then the afk cloaker jumps in, kill him end of story. if you are in lowsec/0.0 and you are unable to kill the cloaker with valid tactics instead of crying nerf you dont deserve to be in a 0.4 and bellow systems.go into high sec where you belong. Great example! don`t bother reading or discussing just spew the same expired useless line over and over again and again ....clasic!Arrogance at it`s finest really! WHat part of the "the cloaker is the only carebear in this situation" don`t you understand?He`s the one with the "look i`m 100% safe button!" He`s the one with the "i get to chose if i wanna PvP or not button". Probably he`s the one who doesnt deserve to be in lowsec/0.0 since he `s the 100% risk free player in most situations. To be honest personaly i could care less about frig-sized cloakers , i can probably chase away cruiser-class ones easy , it`s not like he`s gona stay if he smells a neut, and i was never lucky enough to run into a BS class one...guess because a BS class cloaker may actually get caught and killed while a nanoed cruiser is guaranteed to escape if the pilot has any friggin clue. Thing is chase him away and he`ll just go cloak again , and he`ll stay safe till HE decides to reactivate his PvP flag and decloak . Don`t tell me you don`t see the issue here....he`s 100% immune to PvP unless he decides to activate his pvp flag and declak.
Po3tank Amarr Basgerin Pirate	Posted - 2008.08.17 07:51:00 - [371] Edited by: Po3tank on 17/08/2008 07:52:07 Quote: nanoed cruiser is guaranteed to escape if the pilot has any friggin clue. so what your telling me here is its not the fact that he is cloaked its the fact that he can run away becuse he is nano when you set a trap. that dose not sound like a cloaking ishue get your story strait befor you start crying nerf. you seam to be having a nano problem my friend... Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
Zachstar	Posted - 2008.08.17 10:47:00 - [372] "Look! I am 100 percent safe!" button that is an excellent description for this current system without an AFK timer.. CCP the solution is quite simple and can easily branch out to other AFK problems.. A timer.. Some say 10 mins some say 15 I say 25 but the simple matter is.. If a person can be completely safe while having an effect away from the keyboard at ANY skill it is wrong.. The only "safe afk" place needs to be docked..
Loike coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.08.17 11:00:00 - [373] This thread delivers epicly.
Sral TBear Mark Of Chaos	Posted - 2008.08.17 11:05:00 - [374] i will say what i have said since 2005.... Make cloaks use fuel and dedicatet cloakers less fuel...siiiimple
Karentaki Gallente Fighting While Intoxicated	Posted - 2008.08.17 11:14:00 - [375] Originally by: Xeronn Originally by: Po3tank Quote: . Sure , tactics, manouvering and deciding when to fight and when to run is great but it becomes broken when one side has 100% ability to decide when to fight and when to stay safe . rating ships are not ment for pvp im sry your ship fitting cant i win button the claoker but you need to deffend your home instead of carebear.... use a little somthing called tactics. exp.you jump into the next system and then the afk cloaker jumps in, kill him end of story. if you are in lowsec/0.0 and you are unable to kill the cloaker with valid tactics instead of crying nerf you dont deserve to be in a 0.4 and bellow systems.go into high sec where you belong. Great example! don`t bother reading or discussing just spew the same expired useless line over and over again and again ....clasic!Arrogance at it`s finest really! WHat part of the "the cloaker is the only carebear in this situation" don`t you understand?He`s the one with the "look i`m 100% safe button!" He`s the one with the "i get to chose if i wanna PvP or not button". Probably he`s the one who doesnt deserve to be in lowsec/0.0 since he `s the 100% risk free player in most situations. To be honest personaly i could care less about frig-sized cloakers , i can probably chase away cruiser-class ones easy , it`s not like he`s gona stay if he smells a neut, and i was never lucky enough to run into a BS class one...guess because a BS class cloaker may actually get caught and killed while a nanoed cruiser is guaranteed to escape if the pilot has any friggin clue. Thing is chase him away and he`ll just go cloak again , and he`ll stay safe till HE decides to reactivate his PvP flag and decloak . Don`t tell me you don`t see the issue here....he`s 100% immune to PvP unless he decides to activate his pvp flag and declak. LOL @ CVA calling someone a carebear. I take it you want undocking nerfed too, since that's effectively a PvP flag too. ============= RE: The suicide nerf Originally by: agent apple I believe I can safely speak for many of us when I say, Dear Devs, Go Back to WOW
Paramite Pies	Posted - 2008.08.17 11:28:00 - [376] Originally by: C4LYP50 Originally by: Helox Can't CCP make it that I have to click a box that allows other people to engage in combat with me? Ummm..............they have! The "Undock Button" This had to be quoted for awesome. EVE is a cruel game. and if you can't take it, go play some wussy game. When you go out into space you're putting your life on the line, just like you do when you walk outside.
Ambien Torca	Posted - 2008.08.17 12:09:00 - [377] Edited by: Ambien Torca on 17/08/2008 12:09:25 Ratting in pairs is not really worth it in most places sadly (you¦ll make more money overall from highsec level 4 and you still have more risk in 0.0 anyway). How to deal with them? Use same tactic on them and yep you need patience of a saint and some prober alts / scouts. This is the way to deal with people who do this currently. They camp you, you camp them. And both run level 4:s with alts while waiting.
Dr Slaughter Minmatar Rabies Inc.	Posted - 2008.08.17 13:14:00 - [378] Proof or STFU that this is an issue Come on.. where are the stats people? Xeronn, I do understand you've got some good points btw. My suggested solutions is this: Ships capable of fitting a cov-ops cloak (i.e. can warp cloaked) are not effected by any timers. Everything else gets a max. run timer based on quality of cloak and cloaking skill. There's a cool down timer too before you can re-activate, again based on the quality of your cloak and skills. Once cloaked you disappear from local, and local disappears for you and your ships scanner reduces to your current grid (if you can use probes that's un-effected). Titans are also excluded from timers until something more appropriate is worked out. If you want to introduce fuel fine, but a max skilled cov-ops or force recon pilot had better be able to stay continually cloaked for several hours. A simple timer that doesn't take into account: Skills Ship time Module quality is simple too simple. Personally it's unlikely I will shift in my opinion and suggested solution until people start posting some raw stats about where/what/how often and to what they're losing all their ships.
Zachstar	Posted - 2008.08.17 13:34:00 - [379] It it not too simple.. If you cant sit on the computer while logged in you have no business being in hostile territory.. We aint asking for "Play follow the leader or we think you are a marco and turn off your cloak and disable your shields" A simple "Hey buddy you taking a shower after 25 mins of being cloaked?" Looks like its time to turn off the cloak module.. How to prevent this? When the box comes up telling you to indicate you are active (Changing direction) or you will decloak.. You do it.. You stay on the computer.. You do not get a "100 percent safety while I sleep" button.. And the game is more balanced..
Zachstar	Posted - 2008.08.17 13:38:00 - [380] Originally by: Sral TBear i will say what i have said since 2005.... Make cloaks use fuel and dedicatet cloakers less fuel...siiiimple Well covops and force recon really have an argument for being without fuel costs.. Mainly due to the fact that someone may need to do long stays in hostile territory.. So thats why a simple AFK timer is much better for them.. It allows the real players who actually want to do something to continue to be without fuel needs while the people who revel in their unbalanced ability to go to sleep or go to the movies while being 100 percent safe undocked will finally have to actually work.. Even if it is a simple double click every 25 mins..
SiJira	Posted - 2008.08.17 14:03:00 - [381] everything has already been said here and then discussed and then flamed and discussed again Trashed sig, Shark was here
Xipheas	Posted - 2008.08.17 14:50:00 - [382] Originally by: Zachstar Well covops and force recon really have an argument for being without fuel costs.. Mainly due to the fact that someone may need to do long stays in hostile territory.. Oh wait ... Originally by: Zachstar So thats why a simple AFK timer is much better for them.. It allows the real players who actually want to do something to continue to be without fuel needs while the people who revel in their unbalanced ability to go to sleep or go to the movies while being 100 percent safe undocked will finally have to actually work.. Even if it is a simple double click every 25 mins.. And the same will apply to people who afk in a POS, right? Man, I just can't wait for the first 'I lost my carrier because the POS ejected me for being AFK' thread, that one will be a classic. Don't get me wrong, AFK is not a valid play style in eve. But if a solution is implemented, it needs to be the equivalent of what happens when you disconnect. Anything else would require the same 'fix' to be applied to docking and sheltering in POS shields IMO. If cloaking is an instant '100% safe' button, then both of those are just the same.
Zachstar	Posted - 2008.08.17 15:11:00 - [383] Edited by: Zachstar on 17/08/2008 15:12:55 I can see how AFK in a pos can be annoying.. And yes it is a bit silly as well.. But atleast it has a really good solution.. Blow up the pos
Dr Slaughter Minmatar Rabies Inc.	Posted - 2008.08.17 17:28:00 - [384] Originally by: Zachstar It is not too simple because I say so So skills, quality of cloak, type of ship should have nothing to do with it and instead it should be all controlled by some arbitrary value arrived at by you, because, you know.. your view point is special. When did you last get killed by a cloaked ship? How many ships have you lost to cloaked ships? What have you lost? How often do AFK cloaked ships ruined your enjoyment of the game? Daily, Weekly, Monthly, or more likely always because they might be there? Of all your time in eve playing, what % of time has it ruined for you? How do you know the pilot was AFK when you thought they were AFK? With regards 'hostile territory' CCP will tell you that includes ALL of eve. I assume you think that your simple arbitrary solution is going to be applied to every pilot in eve with or without a cloak. After all.. 'if you cant sit on the computer while logged in you have no business being in hostile territory..' Obviously I don't actually expect you to provide any proof and answer my questions, you're just going to repeat yourself over and over until the threads locked or dies of old age.
Zachstar	Posted - 2008.08.17 18:30:00 - [385] Edited by: Zachstar on 17/08/2008 18:33:29 Edited by: Zachstar on 17/08/2008 18:31:39 I have never been killed by a cloaked ganker I have lost zero to cloaked gankers.. My points are based on principle and for those who have to endure such nonsence.. So before you declare I am some kind of inexperienced idiot for going against something that does not affect me.. Keep in mind the response on if I had (Defend your stuff better foo! go back to empire crybaby etc...) So I could care less.. Especially when the fix is so simple.. A timer BTW a quote like that when I made no such post is libel..
Dr Slaughter Minmatar Rabies Inc.	Posted - 2008.08.17 19:19:00 - [386] Edited by: Dr Slaughter on 17/08/2008 19:19:15 Originally by: Zachstar BTW a quote like that when I made no such post is libel.. My solicitors can be located at Olswang in London. CCP can provide you with my personal details when presented with an appropriate court order, and, just so we're clear: I think you obviously have a limited mental capacity based on your posts in this thread and would recommend, rather than seeking legal advice, you seek the help of a mental health institution.
Zachstar	Posted - 2008.08.17 19:54:00 - [387] Edited by: Zachstar on 17/08/2008 19:58:27 Originally by: Dr Slaughter Edited by: Dr Slaughter on 17/08/2008 19:19:15 Originally by: Zachstar BTW a quote like that when I made no such post is libel.. My solicitors can be located at Olswang in London. CCP can provide you with my personal details when presented with an appropriate court order, and, just so we're clear: I think you obviously have a limited mental capacity based on your posts in this thread and would recommend, rather than seeking legal advice, you seek the help of a mental health institution. Edit: Looks like I am hitting quite a few nerves here.. Sounds like a find just like the hisec gankers based on the responses I have been getting in this thread I will only laugh when CCP decides to nerf covops with fuel requirements or cooldown times like they did with standings AS WELL as cutting out insurance for concord kills.. As for you opinion on my state of mental health. I am glad that is your view. And I am glad that it is not true.. Now back to the topic please?
Dr Slaughter Minmatar Rabies Inc.	Posted - 2008.08.17 20:12:00 - [388] Originally by: Zachstar Edited by: Zachstar on 17/08/2008 19:58:27 Originally by: Dr Slaughter Edited by: Dr Slaughter on 17/08/2008 19:19:15 Originally by: Zachstar BTW a quote like that when I made no such post is libel.. My solicitors can be located at Olswang in London. CCP can provide you with my personal details when presented with an appropriate court order, and, just so we're clear: I think you obviously have a limited mental capacity based on your posts in this thread and would recommend, rather than seeking legal advice, you seek the help of a mental health institution. Edit: Looks like I am hitting quite a few nerves here.. Sounds like a find just like the hisec gankers based on the responses I have been getting in this thread I will only laugh when CCP decides to nerf covops with fuel requirements or cooldown times like they did with standings AS WELL as cutting out insurance for concord kills.. As for you opinion on my state of mental health. I am glad that is your view. And I am glad that it is not true.. Now back to the topic please? Edited above and didn't see your post. Glad you're not a real nut job and only seem like one to me I'm going to leave you to argue the point. I don't really have anything to add beyond what I've posted above. I think we can safely agree on one thing though. We don't agree with each other. ~~~~ There is no parody in this thread. Honest.
Zachstar	Posted - 2008.08.17 20:18:00 - [389] That is unfortunate as I am attempting to get CCP to go for a light solution now.. Rather than "Come to it" later with a much more heavy handed approach.. We did not really ask for much standing change for the Hisec gankers.. We wanted removal of insurance for their unlawful ganks.. Yet they got both.. Therefore it can also happen here.. Instead of an AFK timer to get at the abusers.. They may do somthing that will harm those who use it legit purposes.. Don't think a cooldown timer or fuel for even covops is out of the question.. They have done MUCH MUCH MUCH larger nerfs before..
Space Wanderer	Posted - 2008.08.17 21:45:00 - [390] Remove local. Problem solved.

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