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Why not end the pretence and make highsec a safezone?

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Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.06 14:30:00 - [601] Originally by: Ruze Originally by: Malcanis Next up: banning hi-sec scamming. Yep. Because we are so weak-minded and soft that we need to pray to the god's of our internet universe to protect us, instead of doing it ourselves. Hmm. Seems remarkably like the existence of millions of human beings across the planet, to me. Don't take responsibility for yourself or your survival, no! Put it in the hands of whatever deity you believe in, despite the fact that they have a longstanding track-record of remaining 'hands off' when dealing with earthly affairs. Tsk, tsk. Yeah seriously. I see over and over again on this forum the implict assumption that defending oneself should be optional and unnecessary, and that asking someone to defend themselves is unreasonable, or even immoral. That all protection must and should come from authority. That's a basic split in philosophy right there. There's no way to have a reasonable discussion with someone who doesn't share your basic assumptions What the hell, people? Guns are legal in EvE. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Xeronn Amarr Ordo Drakonis Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.06 14:38:00 - [602] Originally by: Ruze Originally by: Malcanis Next up: banning hi-sec scamming. Yep. Because we are so weak-minded and soft that we need to pray to the god's of our internet universe to protect us, instead of doing it ourselves. Hmm. Seems remarkably like the existence of millions of human beings across the planet, to me. Don't take responsibility for yourself or your survival, no! Put it in the hands of whatever deity you believe in, despite the fact that they have a longstanding track-record of remaining 'hands off' when dealing with earthly affairs. Tsk, tsk. They must be shown the True Path and the Light Brother! Have Faith , Amarr will prevail and the universe shall bend to the will of His chosen people.
Somealt Ofmine	Posted - 2008.09.06 15:06:00 - [603] Edited by: Somealt Ofmine on 06/09/2008 15:12:49 Quote: So you're saying I can prevent your corp using POSes completely, indefinitely, by just having enough people in my corp, and keeping up the war fee? Without actually having to spend time shooting anything? That sounds like a pretty nice option to me. Yeah, you could keep my 4 man corp from having a POS up indefinately by maintaining your war-dec. Of course, most of my prints are already at max research and I'd just switch to buying T2 BPCs off sell orders, where they don't sell at much of a premium to their invention cost anyhow, but sure, knock yourself out. I don't think I've ever heard of someone war-deccing for the sake of quashing market competition. I think that's what the mechanic was intended for, but it didn't work out that way. It's just high-sec piracy at best, and grief "for lulz" at worst. The rest of this is pretty much moot. Looks like CCP's vision for low-sec is to turn it into 0.0 lite, where you'll be able to claim systems and become the "Viceroy" which I assume will let you deny station access to those with negative standings. It's worth a try, I guess.
Doris Dents	Posted - 2008.09.06 16:28:00 - [604] CCP once you've driven away all the people that were actually attracted to the cold, harsh universe and made your game a success in the first place then I hope you can get your act together and put out a well polished game. Because high churn WoW kids game hopping while they wait for the next expansion won't put up with 10 minute module lag or an interface that looks like it was programmed by interns.
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2008.09.06 17:23:00 - [605] Originally by: Doris Dents CCP once you've driven away all the people that were actually attracted to the cold, harsh universe and made your game a success in the first place then I hope you can get your act together and put out a well polished game. Because high churn WoW kids game hopping while they wait for the next expansion won't put up with 10 minute module lag or an interface that looks like it was programmed by interns. The problem with this statement....PVE servers have ALWAYS outnumbered the PvP servers in any-game. Eve-online is a busseness...in order for it to grow, they need more players to start playing the game. I really dont think CCP will sufer much if the hardcore PvP players all left. Makeing Empire "safer" is a good deal for CCP. I know they did'nt read all the threads about griefing word by word letter by letter to decide to do this. PvE market is huge compared to PvP. CCP wants more of that action...if you dont like it...click on 'my account' and leave CCP's game. Damn you CCP! Why did you have to make such a good game?? Yes you drew me back AGAIN! Oh well wheres the Omber?
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.06 17:25:00 - [606] Originally by: Roshan longshot Originally by: Doris Dents CCP once you've driven away all the people that were actually attracted to the cold, harsh universe and made your game a success in the first place then I hope you can get your act together and put out a well polished game. Because high churn WoW kids game hopping while they wait for the next expansion won't put up with 10 minute module lag or an interface that looks like it was programmed by interns. The problem with this statement....PVE servers have ALWAYS outnumbered the PvP servers in any-game. Eve-online is a busseness...in order for it to grow, they need more players to start playing the game. I really dont think CCP will sufer much if the hardcore PvP players all left. Makeing Empire "safer" is a good deal for CCP. I know they did'nt read all the threads about griefing word by word letter by letter to decide to do this. PvE market is huge compared to PvP. CCP wants more of that action...if you dont like it...click on 'my account' and leave CCP's game. That may be true (it could well be true) but that doesn't mean we have to like it or aquiesce quietly. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Maximillian Bayonette White Lion Manufacture and Salvage	Posted - 2008.09.06 17:31:00 - [607] Originally by: Roshan longshot The problem with this statement....PVE servers have ALWAYS outnumbered the PvP servers in any-game. Eve-online is a busseness...in order for it to grow, they need more players to start playing the game. I really dont think CCP will sufer much if the hardcore PvP players all left. Makeing Empire "safer" is a good deal for CCP. I know they did'nt read all the threads about griefing word by word letter by letter to decide to do this. PvE market is huge compared to PvP. CCP wants more of that action...if you dont like it...click on 'my account' and leave CCP's game. Well, the problem with this statement is that Eve isn't designed like all those other games. Eve requires the PvP playstyle in order to function as a game. So, if CCP should find it in their best interest to drive us out of the game, they would have to redesign the entire game. If they do that I can promise you that the game won't survive longer than 6 months. You carebear types are so fickle in your taste, and there are so many other PvE games on the market - most of which are better at PvE than Eve - that you would leave very quickly.
Sakura Nihil Stimulus	Posted - 2008.09.06 17:39:00 - [608] Directed towards specifically towards Greyscale... First off, nice to see some dev interaction again, its been too long. However, with regards to a wardec system that "offered no additional avenues for griefers in hisec space", I have reservations. First off, this game is the ultimate sandbox, who are you to determine whether or not a war against another corp has a valid purpose, or is griefing? I'm not trying to be an ass here, but it is a valid question. A group of vets might declare on a mining corp, and on the surface appear to just be looking for cheap ganks... but what if that mining corp is taking their minerals and selling them to a real enemy of theirs at discounted rates? Collaborating with the enemy warrants interference, many people would argue... or, what about a group of players declaring on a bunch of mission runners? Again, on the surface griefing, but by denying the ability of a group to make money in space, you give your own mission running alts more economic leverage, as it will drive up the prices of the products they can get (like CNRs and faction items) via supply and demand. Furthermore, why should this be an issue? With the new CONCORD response system to discourage suicide ganking, people in highsec are already the safest they've been in a long while (if ever), and all that's left to worry about is wardecs. Attempting to constrain these will only serve to make highsec even safer - how does this mesh with risk vs. reward? It doesn't, someone running highsec L4 missions receives a substantial amount of cash in the face of negligible danger, even while in a player corp - if wardeced, dock up or take a break from the game. Even worse still is that there is a significant portion of the highsec population that is nigh-invulnerable, those people still in NPC newb corps after years of playing the game, able to run missions or trade with no threat of consequences, while affecting the economy in potentially severe ways (see macro miners or farmers). This leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I realize the devs have a vested interest in trying to prevent griefing, as the nature of your playerbase has changed with time, but it goes against the sandbox nature the game has thrived on. Time and time again, threads pop up with newbies asking for help against people randomly decing their new and small player corp, and the vets give them advice - fly cheap ships, swarm their expensive ships and try to take them out (and win on ISK), get friends to assist you, et cetera. Hell, a similar situation happened to me three years ago, and it actually drove me into PvP after I saw how much fun could be had... The TLDR point I'm trying to make? Wardecs are fine, if you want them to be less about griefing and more about combat bump up the fees a bit, rather than revamping the system to be even more protective of a section of players that are the safest they've ever been. Football? Hell yes.
Dramaticus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.09.06 17:40:00 - [609] give us days where concord goes on strike tia Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2008.09.06 17:45:00 - [610] Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette Originally by: Roshan longshot The problem with this statement....PVE servers have ALWAYS outnumbered the PvP servers in any-game. Eve-online is a busseness...in order for it to grow, they need more players to start playing the game. I really dont think CCP will sufer much if the hardcore PvP players all left. Makeing Empire "safer" is a good deal for CCP. I know they did'nt read all the threads about griefing word by word letter by letter to decide to do this. PvE market is huge compared to PvP. CCP wants more of that action...if you dont like it...click on 'my account' and leave CCP's game. Well, the problem with this statement is that Eve isn't designed like all those other games. Eve requires the PvP playstyle in order to function as a game. So, if CCP should find it in their best interest to drive us out of the game, they would have to redesign the entire game. If they do that I can promise you that the game won't survive longer than 6 months. You carebear types are so fickle in your taste, and there are so many other PvE games on the market - most of which are better at PvE than Eve - that you would leave very quickly. This comming from a guy with 'Manufacture and salvage' in his corp title? I am not a "carebear" But I dislike gate camping...and I pay too much money in order to play this game...to sit on a gate for hours on end...This being the only good space game on the market, makes it what it is...PvE is ok, as long as there is a challange for me. PvP is ok, as long as long periods of boardom are kept at bay. The sad part is...in one to four years, most of the pvpers will get out of university, and get a real life, and a new group of PvP whinners will take their place.... Damn you CCP! Why did you have to make such a good game?? Yes you drew me back AGAIN! Oh well wheres the Omber?
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.09.06 18:38:00 - [611] Edited by: Le Skunk on 06/09/2008 18:40:47 Originally by: Roshan longshot PvE market is huge compared to PvP. CCP wants more of that action...if you dont like it...click on 'my account' and leave CCP's game. Unfortunatly, unlike the fickle PVE crowd currenlty catered for under CCPs masterplan, some people have a strange feeling of loyalty to the game. These people are playing the game DESPITE it filling ccps wallets. Not because of it. The comparison I like to draw, is that we are hard put upon football fans, who despise the chairman and his board. Are constantly let down and amased by the crappy player purchases, the shitty state of the football ground,the money men, the price hikes and the corruption Yet we still turn up every saturday, and spend our hard earned money, due to a sense of loyalty and love of the game, And probably out of habit, and enjoying a chat with the others who also turn up glum faced every sat. SKUNK EDIT: That said, I do have a great deal of respect for those quitting the game with the reasoning they do not want to fund CCP any further. These people should be praised for leaving for a reason, not because they want to go play AOC or whater crappy game is out next.
Maximillian Bayonette White Lion Manufacture and Salvage	Posted - 2008.09.06 18:50:00 - [612] Originally by: Roshan longshot This comming from a guy with 'Manufacture and salvage' in his corp title? What's wrong with my corp name? What the hell kind of a name is Ordos Humanitas anyway? My corp name hints at what this character normally does. "Order of Man" or however you translate yours doesn't really say anything at all. Originally by: Roshan longshot I am not a "carebear" But I dislike gate camping...and I pay too much money in order to play this game...to sit on a gate for hours on end...This being the only good space game on the market, makes it what it is...PvE is ok, as long as there is a challange for me. PvP is ok, as long as long periods of boardom are kept at bay. I don't particularly fancy gate camping either. It's boring as hell, but given how this game has been simplified over the years, it's one of the few places left to get any kills. Originally by: Roshan longshot The sad part is...in one to four years, most of the pvpers will get out of university, and get a real life, and a new group of PvP whinners will take their place.... See, this is why you are a carebear. You feel so intimidated by the "evil griefers" that you have to come out with ad hominem attacks like this. From your post, it is more likely that it is you who are in school (not necessarily university, your post hinted more at high school) and have yet to get a "real life".
Doris Dents	Posted - 2008.09.06 22:27:00 - [613] Originally by: Roshan longshot Originally by: Doris Dents CCP once you've driven away all the people that were actually attracted to the cold, harsh universe and made your game a success in the first place then I hope you can get your act together and put out a well polished game. Because high churn WoW kids game hopping while they wait for the next expansion won't put up with 10 minute module lag or an interface that looks like it was programmed by interns. The problem with this statement....PVE servers have ALWAYS outnumbered the PvP servers in any-game. Eve-online is a busseness...in order for it to grow, they need more players to start playing the game. I really dont think CCP will sufer much if the hardcore PvP players all left. Makeing Empire "safer" is a good deal for CCP. I know they did'nt read all the threads about griefing word by word letter by letter to decide to do this. PvE market is huge compared to PvP. CCP wants more of that action...if you dont like it...click on 'my account' and leave CCP's game. Number of hardcore PVP MMOs worth the bandwidth: 1 Number of PVE or low-to-none death penalty PVP MMOs: Damned if I know, lots and growing all the time Eve is doing very well for itself in it's little niche but if CCP reckons they can compete with the likes of WoW and the watered down but well polished PVP of WAR then I think they're dreaming. The game is old, laggy, difficult to understand and the PVE content is highly repetitive. But they've got an extremely loyal player base, many of whom sub for years, because it's the best hardcore PVP game around. Even when I was a total carebear and had never shot a gun in anger the "dog eat dog" atmosphere was attractive to me, sure I'm not alone in that. And thanks but I won't cancel just yet, but I reserve the right to whine like hell when we get devs talking about "pay to grief" like they were beamed in from an alternate Eve universe.
Laechyd Eldgorn Caldari Karjala Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.06 23:04:00 - [614] Edited by: Laechyd Eldgorn on 06/09/2008 23:04:26 remove hi sec. I think op has certain point though. Why have hi sec at first place... Everyone would do just fine without it.
Terranid Meester Tactical Assault and Recon Unit	Posted - 2008.09.07 02:36:00 - [615] I think there should be alternatives to suicide ganking that will satisfy both parties. I don't think CONCORD should be invulnerable either but should be capable of being combated too. Instead of reducing the options they should be increased. For example make CONCORD capable of atopping suicide attacks but not appearing suddenly. Make CONCORD capable of repairing a victims ship and/or dampening enemy vessels to take away their target locks. If the suicide vessels can destroy the CONCORD ships they might be able to destroy the industrial ship. CONCORD should not be invulnerable. You wouldn't have suicide attacks anymore because there would be a chance to destroy combat vessels. You could extend killrights to not just include the individual, but to their corporation and alliance. Keep the insurance penaty for the attacking ships in high sec too. I also believe there should be a proper system for economic warfare in EVE, that doesn't rely on the shooting and blasting combat but allows you to drain an individuals or corporations isk resource and maybe create a prelude to war. It should always be easier to destroy than create in combat.
Vikarion Caldari BLACK 0RIGIN Red Dawn Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.07 03:13:00 - [616] Edited by: Vikarion on 07/09/2008 03:14:21 I think the best way to deal with it all is to simply make hi-sec resources limited. That solves a lot of problems. The real question is, HOW limited? -------- EVE - The only non-consensual PvP MMORPG* *Note: does not contain non-consensual PvP as of 9/3/2008
DiamondEdges Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.09.07 03:41:00 - [617] you got to be kidding me... why do you play this game? just to make isk and do nothing but hide in high sec? thats the impression you give with this post. Ya wanna make it gank proof, sure ok, thats a legit complaint, but war decs are there for a good reason. high sec should NOT stop people from going after their war targets, if it did, it would effect every major 0.0 war in eve, and not in a good way. bad idea.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.09.07 13:46:00 - [618] Edited by: Le Skunk on 07/09/2008 13:49:46 Originally by: DiamondEdges but war decs are there for a good reason. high sec should NOT stop people from going after their war targets, if it did, it would effect every major 0.0 war in eve, and not in a good way. bad idea. If war decs are there for a good reason, why do ccp allow * MULTI ALT WARDECCING ON YOUR OWN CORP - to push the price to unafordable levels for alliance decs * NPC CORP INVULNERABLILTY - As soon as an alliance is wardecced logistic corps drop out of of the alliance, and if the corp is subsequently wardecced they drop into untouchable npc corps. * RING ALT CORP AVOIDAL - Wherby you simply set up 5 or 6 corps with an alt ceo. As soon as you are wardeced, your membership jumps into the next corp in the ring - escaping the wardec. The simple face is nobody in high sec has to be at war if they dont want to. And this is endorsed by CCP. The question is then, what is the point of the wardec. Seen them three year old freighters flying round in npc corps? They are not still in the NPC corp because they like the corp chat. They are there to haul corp and 0.0 alliance logistics around empire without fear of a wardec. I should like to see an answer from CCP over how the above underlined situation is acceptable given their stated aim of wardecs as being possible to disrupt logistics of the 0.0 alliance in highsec? Anyone? Their only concern is a suicide gank - which is very easy to avoid for the non lazy pilot. CCP have recently made suicide ganking harder and will soon make practicaly impossible with the insurance nerf. TLDR: Nobody in eve who is at war needs to be. There is no reason for wardecs in empire. OP is asking for CCP to stop with the pretense in high sec "oh noes this game is so dangerous" and simply formalise what the situation is now. SKUNK
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.07 14:29:00 - [619] Edited by: Malcanis on 07/09/2008 14:33:54 Originally by: Le Skunk OP is asking for CCP to stop with the pretense in high sec "oh noes this game is so dangerous" and simply formalise what the situation is now. SKUNK And he got his answer: Greyscale said in so many words that CCP want to preserve the illusion of danger in hi-sec, whilst removing the reality (a.k.a. "greifing") So hi-sec mission runners can kid themselves that they're L33t playaz whilst never actually facing any risk whatsover apart from perhaps making an EFT mistake and losing a ship to mission rats. And of course by preserving the illusion of danger while removing the reality, the illusion of risk/reward balance can be maintained while removing the reality. Neat. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.09.07 14:34:00 - [620] if they ever ever did safe zones it should only be restricted to the player start star systems. that said we need a better system at dealing with pirates, currently if you hunt them as far as concord is concerned(unless you do it in 0.0) you are one as well. it would be pretty nifty if you could get some kinda Pirate Hunting Permit(would need to have a pretty high sec rating and pay some ISK)that would allow you to freely hunt and eliminate those below a certain sec rating. i think the term is Rights of Marqe(sp)? or something like that.
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.07 14:37:00 - [621] Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker if they ever ever did safe zones it should only be restricted to the player start star systems. that said we need a better system at dealing with pirates, currently if you hunt them as far as concord is concerned(unless you do it in 0.0) you are one as well. it would be pretty nifty if you could get some kinda Pirate Hunting Permit(would need to have a pretty high sec rating and pay some ISK)that would allow you to freely hunt and eliminate those below a certain sec rating. i think the term is Rights of Marqe(sp)? or something like that. Heh. A Letter Of Marque is the exact opposite of what you're thinking of. It's basically state-authorised piracy. And yeah if instead of slapping increasingly ridiculous restrictions on who can touch who's doll where, we had a decent reform of the bounty system (many, many ideas have been proposed), then, well... eh, what the hell. The hay is in the barn. It's a done deal: hi-sec is not for all intents and purposes, a safe-zone. Deal with it and get over it CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Viktor Fyretracker Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.09.07 14:43:00 - [622] i knew i had the term wrong. =( compare EVE to the big city, High sec is Midtown Manhattan its safe but you can still get mugged.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.07 14:50:00 - [623] Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker i knew i had the term wrong. =( compare EVE to the big city, High sec is Midtown Manhattan its safe but you can still get mugged. See in a real world analogy Malcanis and Le Skunk are upset because they can't drive through Midtown, pull up to a delivery van, empty their shotguns into it. Then the cops show up and carefully blow up their 78 dodge K car without touching them, plus tell Allstate to make sure they get 100% of the insurance on it while ignoring thier buddy walking up and checking the back to see if anything is there. Note that they didn't even check to see if the delivery driver was returning to shop or not, and they shot it up right as it was sitting trying to get into traffic; it didn't even have its cruise control set. And that is how the game worked until CCP determined something was wrong. Ignore their whining. ------------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Wrangler Not it isn't, people should be encouraged to get out in low sec space, but never forced to do so.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.07 15:01:00 - [624] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker i knew i had the term wrong. =( compare EVE to the big city, High sec is Midtown Manhattan its safe but you can still get mugged. See in a real world analogy Malcanis and Le Skunk are upset because they can't drive through Midtown, pull up to a delivery van, empty their shotguns into it. Then the cops show up and carefully blow up their 78 dodge K car without touching them, plus tell Allstate to make sure they get 100% of the insurance on it while ignoring thier buddy walking up and checking the back to see if anything is there. Note that they didn't even check to see if the delivery driver was returning to shop or not, and they shot it up right as it was sitting trying to get into traffic; it didn't even have its cruise control set. And that is how the game worked until CCP determined something was wrong. Ignore their whining. Personally, CONCORD needs more forms of punishment. I want to see the level of punishment subjective to the level of the crime. Pod killer? Yep, they send you to the cloning bays. Also, it's not really punishment unless you take something the player values. To really punish a player, you have to either take away isk (as being done with insurance changes) and/or time. So, imagine if CONCORD warped in and put up a real stasis field on your ship. I mean, no moving around, no activating modules, nothing. 'Prison', so to speak. Nobody can attack you, mind it, without getting a CONCORD response of their own (even with kill rights). However, this ten minutes to an hour long imprisonment is metted out for the level of criminal you are, as well as the type of crime you committed. If you log out, your timer freezes and resumes when you log back in. And you can't log out and log in another character on that account until a prison sentence is served. And yes, if you are scheduled to be killed for heinous acts, you can be put under a stasis field first, and killed AFTER. There also needs to be criminal records, permanent and kept per empire. A player who performs lots of crimes will have a track record, and those with positive standings can bribe DED for the report (and tag these individuals for their alliance/corp). Originally by: CCP Greyscale consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.07 15:04:00 - [625] To go along with this, if players think it's unfair to extend limit a prison sentence to play-time only, then make the sentence far longer, upwards of a week for extreme repeat offenders. Sure, you can log out and log in another character. 'Sorry guys, but my other account has three more days to serve for a pod kill I did in Jita.' Originally by: CCP Greyscale consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
TimMc Gallente SolaR KillerS	Posted - 2008.09.07 15:05:00 - [626] Originally by: Dirk Magnum Never ever ever put an end to the resistance against safezones in Eve. Ever. Don't give in on this, people. This. Lack of absolutes makes Eve unique.
Mr Crowley Minmatar Eve Liberation Force Liberty.	Posted - 2008.09.07 15:18:00 - [627] Ive said it before and I will say it agian. We do not need more high security. We need no security. Remove all pvp restrictions and leave security status of systems simply for a indication of NPC strength. Alliances are strong, Corps are strong and in 0.0 a new player can do fine if involved in a corp, only problem is they cant rat/mine cause NPC strength. This will make the region markets more defined and make pvp more focused on trade and industry then OMG there is a smaller ship then mine lemme wtfblast it to nothing. No discussion of moderation in signatures please - email us if you have any questions - Jacques([email protected])
Mr Crowley Minmatar Eve Liberation Force Liberty.	Posted - 2008.09.07 15:20:00 - [628] Ive said it before and I will say it agian. We do not need more high security. We need no security. Remove all pvp restrictions and leave security status of systems simply for a indication of NPC strength. Alliances are strong, Corps are strong and in 0.0 a new player can do fine if involved in a corp, only problem is they cant rat/mine cause NPC strength. This will make the region markets more defined and make pvp more focused on trade and industry then OMG there is a smaller ship then mine lemme wtfblast it to nothing. No discussion of moderation in signatures please - email us if you have any questions - Jacques([email protected])
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.07 15:31:00 - [629] Originally by: Mr Crowley Ive said it before and I will say it agian. We do not need more high security. We need no security. Remove all pvp restrictions and leave security status of systems simply for a indication of NPC strength. Alliances are strong, Corps are strong and in 0.0 a new player can do fine if involved in a corp, only problem is they cant rat/mine cause NPC strength. This will make the region markets more defined and make pvp more focused on trade and industry then OMG there is a smaller ship then mine lemme wtfblast it to nothing. Counterstrike is that way.... Counterstrike Source because that is what you are asking for. 100% war, in a game where losses count, is not sustainable. ------------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Wrangler Not it isn't, people should be encouraged to get out in low sec space, but never forced to do so.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.09.07 16:36:00 - [630] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Originally by: Viktor Fyretracker i knew i had the term wrong. =( compare EVE to the big city, High sec is Midtown Manhattan its safe but you can still get mugged. See in a real world analogy Malcanis and Le Skunk are upset because they can't drive through Midtown, pull up to a delivery van, empty their shotguns into it. Then the cops show up and carefully blow up their 78 dodge K car without touching them, plus tell Allstate to make sure they get 100% of the insurance on it while ignoring thier buddy walking up and checking the back to see if anything is there. Note that they didn't even check to see if the delivery driver was returning to shop or not, and they shot it up right as it was sitting trying to get into traffic; it didn't even have its cruise control set. And that is how the game worked until CCP determined something was wrong. Ignore their whining. Dont make me link the other post you did today where you complain about people making real world comparisions. And oh yeah, in a real world the corps wouldnt turn up after 10 seconds, the cops dont have a 100% detection rate, you would be able to evade the corps etcetcetc so lets ignore your crap comparisons SKUNK

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The comparison I like to draw, is that we are hard put upon football fans, who despise the chairman and his board. Are constantly let down and amased by the crappy player purchases, the shitty state of the football ground,the money men, the price hikes and the corruption