I have had my NDA in place since CSM 2. Waiting for the Skype information now.

I started this thread because I saw repeated posted in other threads that asked the CSM for their position related to this event. If the rest of the CSM 7 can't find it in themselves to take a stand then I wonder how they think they deserve their position in the CSM.

I wish I could triple like this post!

Issler

Regardless, you've got email waiting to be answered it seems. v0v



This kind of talk is only going to alienate every other member of the CSM before you are even involved. Right now I think it's beyond debate that Mittens did something really dumb. He's owned it and apologized for it. Now we need to decide what the result of all this is. It is only fair that we allow every member of the CSM to have time to do things like get back from Iceland before any decisions are made. (Two Step is literally IN THE AIR as I type this).

I considered doing a point by point to many of your statements but I'll just leave it at this: the campaign is over and most of your posts on this subject read like you are still campaigning for something. You've earned your spot on the team so come on board and start being a team member. o7 o7

I know the person who the apology was sent to personally.....and no the apology didn't "cut it". lawls

It is revolting that Mittens said what he did, and he should suffer heavy consequences for his casual disregard for someone suffering.

He should suffer more than stepping down from CSM as chair, he should be OFF CSM. He should not be allowed to represent the players of EVE at all.

You people give this jerk entirely too much pretend power.

No one is hiding behind anything, m8. But, as I said before, the CSM is a group of people and we've worked hard to not just REACT to things. Mittens / Alex did something really dumb and I've no doubt there will be consequenses.

I started this thread because I saw repeated posted in other threads that asked the CSM for their position related to this event.

If the rest of the CSM 7 can't find it in themselves to take a stand then I wonder how they think they deserve their position in the CSM.

I knew this would further polarize any opinions about me but I didn't sign up for this to win some sort of popularity contest. I did this to server the players of Eve and it looks to me like a lot of them want more than just a "I'm sorry, I was drunk and was an asshat, can we hug and make up, I swear I'll never do it again".

I really looked forward to working with Mittens, by all accounts he is very effective in the CSM and I wanted to see how the "new" structure of the CSM worked compared to the older and less effective model I was involved in.

Here is one final point. The original purpose if the CSM was to make sure that the players had direct representation when scandals in Eve occurred. To give the player's a voice when scandals happen. If this isn't a scandal then I'm confused about the meaning of the word.

We do agree that the CSM is not a "popularity contest" and it is in fact best utilized as a communication tool between the players and CCP. Going out as a lone wolf with a megaphone and a soap box is fine as an individual, but while representing a greater body tact and communication are vital. I look forward to working with you, but please take the leap and join us so you can communicate with the CSM without blindly throwing us under the bus.

Also, while I completely agree that it was out of line to ask for other people to message him, somehow there are a few things people are forgetting.

1. CCP had access to all presentations beforehand and obviously didn't object to anything. The Alliance Panel is traditionally pretty laissez-faire. People presenting drunk is not something new on this particular panel and CCP obviously doesn't mind.

2. Mittens wasn't on the alliance panel in his capacity as a CSM member. He was there to represent Goonswarm. I wasn't a particular fan of the slide in question, since Depression is unfortunately a pretty serious condition, but other people didn't seem to mind.
During the CSM panel where he actually spoke in an official capacity, he was not drunk and he behaved completely professional, doing exactly the job that was expected from him.

3. Nobody seemed to mind for 2 days after the alliance panel was presented. There were no sanctions by CCP, very few comments on the slide. Not even Evenews picked it up and Riverini and Mittens are not exactly the closest of friends.


I agree he did something wrong, but he apologized and I seriously doubt he will anything like that ever happen again. The absolute most he should do is step down as chairman of the CSM and let TwoStep take over, while remaining on the CSM panel as a normal member.
Removing him from the CSM alltogether will undoubtedly hurt Eve and that can't be in the interest of any player.

Thank you Seleene!!! As the new CSM members consider how best to respond, might I suggest that the members also keep a channel open to CCP?

Protests, even a cry from goons for Mittens to step down started almost immediately after the panel. So it wasn't quiet for several days. I was up till 2:00 AM trying to catch the repeat feed (which I think CCP broke on purpose) to figure out what the kerfuffle was about. It wasn't till someone posted a link to a youtube of the panel that I saw what the protesters were going on about.

I actually am concerned about your point that CCP had this material in advance. I'm expecting CCP meeds to explain that.

Issler

Protests, even a cry from goons for Mittens to step down started almost immediately after the panel. So it wasn't quiet for several days. I was up till 2:00 AM trying to catch the repeat feed (which I think CCP broke on purpose) to figure out what the kerfuffle was about. It wasn't till someone posted a link to a youtube of the panel that I saw what the protesters were going on about.

I actually am concerned about your point that CCP had this material in advance. I'm expecting CCP meeds to explain that.

Issler

While I was posting Seleene made some very poised and polite comments. Nonetheless, I feel it is necessary for me to chime in because you asked me to.

Not only do I find this comment to be the furthest thing from constructive, I find it deeply offensive as both a member of CSM 6 and CSM 7. Previous incarnations of the CSM proved that when the CSM act as a disjointed set of individuals, very little is achieved. However, as CSM 6 illustrated, when they step off the soap box to actually communicate with one another and act with a united front, they are able to make waves.

While you are absolutely entitled to your opinion, it is downright shameful for you to pass judgement onto CSM members while you are the only one who has yet to join in the Skype channel and the only one who is not involved in our communication.



We do agree that the CSM is not a "popularity contest" and it is in fact best utilized as a communication tool between the players and CCP. Going out as a lone wolf with a megaphone and a soap box is fine as an individual, but while representing a greater body tact and communication are vital. I look forward to working with you, but please take the leap and join us so you can communicate with the CSM without blindly throwing us under the bus.

As has been stated many times throughout the campaign, the CSM and CCP work together constantly through a persistent conversation over Skype. So yes, we do have a channel open, and we make good use of it.

CCP has stepped away from making pretty clothes and stepped back towards making spaceships better.

That's what this 'pretend power' has done.

I am sure the players will be very impressed with your strong statement regarding the issue at hand.

Issler

My statement on the Mitanni (and incidentally Issler "accepting" his apology though she sure doesn't act like it)

For me statement on Isslergate: At this point, you're doing more harm to the CSM than anything Mitanni has done. And I'd tell you that in person if you bothered talking to the rest of us.

I'm not throwing anyone under the bus, I'm responding to the players that elected me to take a stand. And that only a few other of the CSM feels a need to provide the same player representation is puzzling. To stay quiet and worry about "the message" behind closed doors is exactly what the players fear about the CSM's lack of transparency to the players.

Sad to see I was the only CSM 7 member to go on the record with my outrage at the incident.

We got what I believe is a sincere apology now the question I believe is before CSM 7, CCP and most importantly the players. "is that enough"?

Issler

There isn't anything to think about. Either you thought what Mittens did was OK and sit on the sidelines (or even seem to support him) or you honestly address the players with your thoughts and what outcomes you think are appropriate.

My statement on the Mitanni (and incidentally Issler "accepting" his apology though she sure doesn't act like it)

For me statement on Isslergate: At this point, you're doing more harm to the CSM than anything Mitanni has done. And I'd tell you that in person if you bothered talking to the rest of us.