Walk up to a real goon at a bar this weekend, if you're old enough to drink, and tell him with all heartfelt sincerity he should kill himself because he's a waste of space. Go on....see what happens. That's my whole point..in the real world there are grown ass consequences for talking this kind of sht to people.

Honestly, if I walked up to a goonie and told him to kill himself, while grinning the same grin that Mittens grinned on the panel, I'm pretty confident it'd get laughed off. I'd probably even get laughed at.

Goonies, back me up here.

So Issler, how does it feel to basically tell the entire CSM to suck your **** just days before you have to start working with them for a year? Do you feel that this will help you in your goals to make eve a better place for miners?

I thought it was good a couple of them spoke out. I wish they all had rather than just tow the party line.

Especially when the party line seems to be "Duck and Cover"

I too am curious what possessed Issler to run off and make this thread without consulting the rest of the CSM about how to approach MittaniGate. It would have made a lot more sense for them to discuss the situation privately, decide what they were going to do (after seeing what CCP wanted/required out of the situation)) and then make a united public front about the post. Having one of them run off and immediately condemn her fellow CSM member's actions (while arguably morally justifiable to an extent) is not a very politically thought out move.

Is Issler really so quick to stab her fellow CSM in the back? She has to work with the rest of the CSM for a year, and I don't think this is a very good way to start off for her. They probably see her as some kind of rogue element that does whatever she wants for her own purposes. Not a very good first impression.

But, you know, to each their own or whatever.

We've seen the effects of a CSM member acting without thinking. I think it isn't appropriate to immediately rush off and post your first instinct without consulting your co-workers about what happened, what now needs to happen, etc. It just doesn't seem very professional to me, and professionalism from the CSM is what started this whole shebang.

In evolutionary psychology and in cognitive neuroscience, patience is studied as a decision-making problem, involving the choice of either a small reward in the short term, or a more valuable reward in the long term. When given a choice, all animals, humans included, are inclined to favour short term rewards over long term rewards. This is despite the often greater benefits associated with long term rewards.

In a 2005 study involving common marmosets and cottontop tamarins, animals of both species faced a self-control paradigm in which individuals chose between taking an immediate small reward and waiting a variable amount of time for a large reward. Under these conditions, marmosets waited significantly longer for food than tamarins. This difference cannot be explained by life history, social behaviour or brain size. It can, however, be explained by feeding ecology: marmosets rely on gum, a food product acquired by waiting for exudate to flow from trees, whereas tamarins feed on insects, a food product requiring impulsive action. Foraging ecology, therefore, may provide a selective pressure for the evolution of self-control.

I think Hans just ninja-compared Issler to a small marsupial. Cool.

I wasn't trying to make a statement about anyone here, I was simply meditating on the value of patience during times like this. I came across that anecdote and found it interesting.

Besides, monkeys are totally awesome. Especially little ones with pouches.

Bolton didn't end up calling for someones IRL death.

And it being a daily occurrence does not make it right.

This is basic stuff you are getting wrong.

wis has been investigated by CCP...he is "not" a botter, confirmed. He runs a ridiculous multi screen setup I can't even begin to comprehend. He's got a blog somewhere that has a picture of it. You can see it for yourself.

Calling for someones death and harrasing someone is totally different. He didn't say "Go round his house and kill him".

I can see your point if The Mittani had run this past the CSM in the first place we wouldn't be here and here stinks. It would be nice to know the remaining CSM members had morals though.

Currently it just looks like that they can't deal with a crisis with out The Mittani.

Everyone needs to step back here for a moment and understand that while group discussion is important, and teamwork necessary to work on behalf of the players to get things accomplished with CCP, the CSM at the end of the day is 14 individual human beings.

Those that want instant gratification regarding a big CSM statement are going to have to wait. Everyone needs to talk about it, and frankly not all of us have heard all sides of the story. This is EVE. Nothing it ever as it seems.

Personally, without having been at Fan Fest, without having ever spoken to The Wis, without knowing what the CSM / CCP involvement is in the Alliance presentation preparation, I'm just not comfortable coming out and waving a sword with righteous anger without having listened to the full story so I can assess what the problem here is, and think about how we can prevent it from happening again. CSM7 haven't even taken office yet, we're still getting set up.

I really appreciate those of you in this thread that have shown respect for the fact that this is all happening literally while many of the CSM7 members are in planes travelling. Please give everyone a day or so to get home, get paperwork in, get into the conversation, and than we can get to work.

Its extremely premature to go doomsdaying about how we "can't deal with a crisis", and its certainly not fair to accuse those of us who want to handle this the right way as somehow lacking in morals.

Calling for someones death and harrasing someone is totally different. He didn't say "Go round his house and kill him".

No he basically did exactly that, he said find him and drive him to suicide. Your just quibbling semantics when the end result would have been similar had the community not gotten up in arms about it.

Its not funny. Its not excusable.



And FYI a witch hunt would imply we are trying to get an innocent person. I got news for you...Hes on tape clear as day.

No he basically did exactly that, he said find him and drive him to suicide. Your just quibbling semantics when the end result would have been similar had the community not gotten up in arms about it.

Its not funny. Its not excusable.

[quote=Frying Doom]
I can see your point if The....etc., etc. (shortened to avoid unecessary screen real-estate waste - not to mis-quote or remove context).

Personally, without having been at Fan Fest, without having ever spoken to The Wis, without knowing what the CSM / CCP involvement is in the Alliance presentation preparation, I'm just not comfortable coming out and waving a sword with righteous anger without having listened to the full story so I can assess what the problem here is, and think about how we can prevent it from happening again. CSM7 haven't even taken office yet, we're still getting set up.

I really .....etc., etc.

No, you're naive. Calling for someones death and harrasing someone is totally different. He didn't say "Go round his house and kill him".

I agree, it wasn't right but you're taking on not just the entire of null sec but the larger gaming community. This sort of stuff happens all the time. You don't think just because this was the first time someone said to do this publicly its not been said 1000 times before? Some people just play EVE to make sure you have a bad day.

So what is you're reaction to people user the 'N' word in both comms and local all over nullsec? Putting **** links (and actual stuff that might offend) in chat?

Your little witch hunt and 5000 post threads may have unintended consequences for EVE.

It doesn't mean he isn't a massive troll does it? This witch hunt is not only ridiculous but utterly naive.

No he basically did exactly that, he said find him and drive him to suicide. Your just quibbling semantics when the end result would have been similar had the community not gotten up in arms about it.
.

Those that want instant gratification regarding a big CSM statement are going to have to wait. Everyone needs to talk about it, and frankly not all of us have heard all sides of the story. This is EVE. Nothing it ever as it seems.

Personally, without having been at Fan Fest, without having ever spoken to The Wis, without knowing what the CSM / CCP involvement is in the Alliance presentation preparation, I'm just not comfortable coming out and waving a sword with righteous anger without having listened to the full story so I can assess what the problem here is, and think about how we can prevent it from happening again. CSM7 haven't even taken office yet, we're still getting set up.

I really appreciate those of you in this thread that have shown respect for the fact that this is all happening literally while many of the CSM7 members are in planes travelling. Please give everyone a day or so to get home, get paperwork in, get into the conversation, and than we can get to work.

Its extremely premature to go doomsdaying about how we "can't deal with a crisis", and its certainly not fair to accuse those of us who want to handle this the right way as somehow lacking in morals.

As a CSM 7 member I am extremely disappointed with Mittens behavior at Fanfest this year.

...

We in the CSM owe Eve a much higher standard of behavior!

Issler Dainze

Everyone needs to step back here for a moment and understand that while group discussion is important, and teamwork necessary to work on behalf of the players to get things accomplished with CCP, the CSM at the end of the day is 14 individual human beings.

Those that want instant gratification regarding a big CSM statement are going to have to wait. Everyone needs to talk about it, and frankly not all of us have heard all sides of the story. This is EVE. Nothing it ever as it seems.

Personally, without having been at Fan Fest, without having ever spoken to The Wis, without knowing what the CSM / CCP involvement is in the Alliance presentation preparation, I'm just not comfortable coming out and waving a sword with righteous anger without having listened to the full story so I can assess what the problem here is, and think about how we can prevent it from happening again. CSM7 haven't even taken office yet, we're still getting set up.

I really appreciate those of you in this thread that have shown respect for the fact that this is all happening literally while many of the CSM7 members are in planes travelling. Please give everyone a day or so to get home, get paperwork in, get into the conversation, and than we can get to work.

Its extremely premature to go doomsdaying about how we "can't deal with a crisis", and its certainly not fair to accuse those of us who want to handle this the right way as somehow lacking in morals.

And just to clarify, what I've primarily criticised the CSM members for on this thread is for what I perceived to be double standards in the treatment of the Alexander Gianturco issue.

On the one hand Issler Dainz is strongly criticised for coming out with an individual position against the Mittani remaining as chair by CSM members here in advance of the meeting.

Which might well have flown with me.

If certain CSM members hadn't already come straight out of the gate with pledges of support and loyalty to Alexander Gianturco continuing as chair in general discussion!

That Hans is a pretty horrible double standard I think you'll agree.

If nobody is to make a statement in advance of discussion then nobody should make a bloody statement. Its simply not reasonable to censure only those making one kind of statement while allowing the other kind to go without question.

You'd be seeing those threads anyway; people are going to be mad at Mittens regardless of the outcome.
People need to learn to forgive and forget - and let the CSM do their job.