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Zu Lu
   |
Posted - 2004.08.11 17:15:00 -
[1351]
 Originally by: Coolie Wise
I think that some of you who are complaining about the advantages of ships like the Thorax VS ships like the Moa are ignoring an important factor, If you pay for a Chevy, you get a Chevy, if you pay for a Hummer, you get a Hummer. before you rant and rave about how awesome a thorax is and how much your Moa suxs, just think a bit about hwo much a Thorax costs (either in resources to make or ISK on the market)
Tier 3 cruisers cost about the same and anyway all cruisers range from roughly 3-7 million and whats 4 million in eve ? not much
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Zu Lu
|
Posted - 2004.08.11 17:15:00 -
[1352]
Originally by: Coolie Wise
I think that some of you who are complaining about the advantages of ships like the Thorax VS ships like the Moa are ignoring an important factor, If you pay for a Chevy, you get a Chevy, if you pay for a Hummer, you get a Hummer. before you rant and rave about how awesome a thorax is and how much your Moa suxs, just think a bit about hwo much a Thorax costs (either in resources to make or ISK on the market)
Tier 3 cruisers cost about the same and anyway all cruisers range from roughly 3-7 million and whats 4 million in eve ? not much
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MrRookie
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Posted - 2004.08.12 07:28:00 -
[1353]
Originally by: Bernard Normal
The Caracal 'bonus' is no bonus at all. Most ships they're attacking take several volleys to take down so missile velocity is basically immaterial. RoF would have been a sensible improvement to add to the specialisation of the cruiser class.
This downgrades the Caracal compared to the other cruiser improvements.
You can fit assault launchers now and stick at the same range almost as heaviesdid before (if the bonus worked at all) and do a higher DoT. Or am I wrong?
_____________________________________________
\o/
I got a siggy... 
WTB 3x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beams
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139877 |
MrRookie
|
Posted - 2004.08.12 07:28:00 -
[1354]
Originally by: Bernard Normal
The Caracal 'bonus' is no bonus at all. Most ships they're attacking take several volleys to take down so missile velocity is basically immaterial. RoF would have been a sensible improvement to add to the specialisation of the cruiser class.
This downgrades the Caracal compared to the other cruiser improvements.
You can fit assault launchers now and stick at the same range almost as heaviesdid before (if the bonus worked at all) and do a higher DoT. Or am I wrong?
_____________________________________________
\o/
I got a siggy...
WTB 3x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beams
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139877 |
Morikai Acler
|
Posted - 2004.08.12 14:25:00 -
[1355]
Edited by: Morikai Acler on 12/08/2004 14:27:52
Originally by: Coolie Wise
I think that some of you who are complaining about the advantages of ships like the Thorax VS ships like the Moa are ignoring an important factor, If you pay for a Chevy, you get a Chevy, if you pay for a Hummer, you get a Hummer. before you rant and rave about how awesome a thorax is and how much your Moa suxs, just think a bit about hwo much a Thorax costs (either in resources to make or ISK on the market)
Moa on average also cost more to make than a Thorax, mineral costs. And the Moa BPCs also cost more to buy, 1mil for me36 10run thorax bpc, as compiared to 2.7mil for me20 15run bpc for the Moa. And I spent over 2 days trying to find something better than that 2.7mil bpc to no avail.
Granted since the Moa has enough PG with engineering 5 and a couple RCU's. It has more than enough PG to fit an effective shield tanking pvp setup. Meaning I use tech2 large shield booster on mine, which is nice when you have over 1500 shields, especially with the boost from level 4 cruiser or higher.
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Morikai Acler
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Posted - 2004.08.12 14:25:00 -
[1356]
Edited by: Morikai Acler on 12/08/2004 14:27:52
Originally by: Coolie Wise
I think that some of you who are complaining about the advantages of ships like the Thorax VS ships like the Moa are ignoring an important factor, If you pay for a Chevy, you get a Chevy, if you pay for a Hummer, you get a Hummer. before you rant and rave about how awesome a thorax is and how much your Moa suxs, just think a bit about hwo much a Thorax costs (either in resources to make or ISK on the market)
Moa on average also cost more to make than a Thorax, mineral costs. And the Moa BPCs also cost more to buy, 1mil for me36 10run thorax bpc, as compiared to 2.7mil for me20 15run bpc for the Moa. And I spent over 2 days trying to find something better than that 2.7mil bpc to no avail.
Granted since the Moa has enough PG with engineering 5 and a couple RCU's. It has more than enough PG to fit an effective shield tanking pvp setup. Meaning I use tech2 large shield booster on mine, which is nice when you have over 1500 shields, especially with the boost from level 4 cruiser or higher.
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Royaldo
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Posted - 2004.08.12 15:24:00 -
[1357]
Please fix the thorax drone bay to 1000 or 1200.. just get it lower than the vexor.. The vexor bonus is nice but the drone bay on it is too low. Please give the Thorax a new decription and a lower drone bay(1200) and give the Vexor a new description and a 2000 drone bay.
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Royaldo
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Posted - 2004.08.12 15:24:00 -
[1358]
Please fix the thorax drone bay to 1000 or 1200.. just get it lower than the vexor.. The vexor bonus is nice but the drone bay on it is too low. Please give the Thorax a new decription and a lower drone bay(1200) and give the Vexor a new description and a 2000 drone bay.
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BIRDofPREY
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Posted - 2004.08.12 19:49:00 -
[1359]
Edited by: BIRDofPREY on 12/08/2004 19:51:53
Originally by: Royaldo
Please fix the thorax drone bay to 1000 or 1200.. just get it lower than the vexor.. The vexor bonus is nice but the drone bay on it is too low. Please give the Thorax a new decription and a lower drone bay(1200) and give the Vexor a new description and a 2000 drone bay.
Everyone is all bent out of shape over the T-Rax drone bay. It's only been that way since beta. What the Hell?
NO one was p*ssing about it until the Dev's brought it up. Now everyone is crying about the T-rax being overpowered.
Your 650mm Artillery Cannon I perfectly strikes Serpentis Guard, wrecking for 340.0 damage |
BIRDofPREY
|
Posted - 2004.08.12 19:49:00 -
[1360]
Edited by: BIRDofPREY on 12/08/2004 19:51:53
Originally by: Royaldo
Please fix the thorax drone bay to 1000 or 1200.. just get it lower than the vexor.. The vexor bonus is nice but the drone bay on it is too low. Please give the Thorax a new decription and a lower drone bay(1200) and give the Vexor a new description and a 2000 drone bay.
Everyone is all bent out of shape over the T-Rax drone bay. It's only been that way since beta. What the Hell?
NO one was p*ssing about it until the Dev's brought it up. Now everyone is crying about the T-rax being overpowered.
Your 650mm Artillery Cannon I perfectly strikes Serpentis Guard, wrecking for 340.0 damage |
Zak Kingsman
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Posted - 2004.08.12 21:07:00 -
[1361]
Because this was SUPPOSED to balance the ships. We KNEW it was way over powered before but since they were trying to balance things out, this concession to 'rax pilots stands out even more now, especially after no one said anything about the moa, and all of a sudden it turns like a cow. Cause it obviously needed to be nerfed 
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Zak Kingsman
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Posted - 2004.08.12 21:07:00 -
[1362]
Because this was SUPPOSED to balance the ships. We KNEW it was way over powered before but since they were trying to balance things out, this concession to 'rax pilots stands out even more now, especially after no one said anything about the moa, and all of a sudden it turns like a cow. Cause it obviously needed to be nerfed
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Zu Lu
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Posted - 2004.08.12 21:34:00 -
[1363]
Originally by: BIRDofPREY
Edited by: BIRDofPREY on 12/08/2004 19:51:53
Originally by: Royaldo
Please fix the thorax drone bay to 1000 or 1200.. just get it lower than the vexor.. The vexor bonus is nice but the drone bay on it is too low. Please give the Thorax a new decription and a lower drone bay(1200) and give the Vexor a new description and a 2000 drone bay.
Everyone is all bent out of shape over the T-Rax drone bay. It's only been that way since beta. What the Hell?
NO one was p*ssing about it until the Dev's brought it up. Now everyone is crying about the T-rax being overpowered.
Actually when numerous cruisers had the ability to fire torps and cruise missiles taken away it was a boost to turret based ships. Even when other cruisers could fire cruise/torps the Thorax was still the most damaging and was boosted in that other ships suffered a loss in DOT, that is when people started to post that the Thorax is overpowered.
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Zu Lu
|
Posted - 2004.08.12 21:34:00 -
[1364]
Originally by: BIRDofPREY
Edited by: BIRDofPREY on 12/08/2004 19:51:53
Originally by: Royaldo
Please fix the thorax drone bay to 1000 or 1200.. just get it lower than the vexor.. The vexor bonus is nice but the drone bay on it is too low. Please give the Thorax a new decription and a lower drone bay(1200) and give the Vexor a new description and a 2000 drone bay.
Everyone is all bent out of shape over the T-Rax drone bay. It's only been that way since beta. What the Hell?
NO one was p*ssing about it until the Dev's brought it up. Now everyone is crying about the T-rax being overpowered.
Actually when numerous cruisers had the ability to fire torps and cruise missiles taken away it was a boost to turret based ships. Even when other cruisers could fire cruise/torps the Thorax was still the most damaging and was boosted in that other ships suffered a loss in DOT, that is when people started to post that the Thorax is overpowered.
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Meshuggah
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Posted - 2004.08.12 23:56:00 -
[1365]
After reading a bit here I see a few ppl complaining on the second bonus of the Rupture. Especialy "Qutsemnie" who seem to look upon the bonus with far from kind eyes.
Since I¦m a minmatar-pilot myself and have been roaming the space for some time now its time for my 2 cents.
Without its damage the minmatar cruisers have lost their place in space. We cant tank very good, we dont have the assult-range of other corps and we accualy dont do as much dmg as other races eigher, even with the bonus. The trackinspeeds of projectile turrets is worse then every other group of guns so that leavs us with 2 good qualities, speed and cap-usage.
If you want to see facts and not just listen to ppl spamming on forums just look into space. Ppl want the best possible ship when they fly and to be honest, minmatar-patriot as I am. There isnt that many minmatar cruisers in space and havent been for a while now. And as for dmg-bonus vs defensive bonus, they cancel each other out so no loss no gain.
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Meshuggah
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Posted - 2004.08.12 23:56:00 -
[1366]
After reading a bit here I see a few ppl complaining on the second bonus of the Rupture. Especialy "Qutsemnie" who seem to look upon the bonus with far from kind eyes.
Since I¦m a minmatar-pilot myself and have been roaming the space for some time now its time for my 2 cents.
Without its damage the minmatar cruisers have lost their place in space. We cant tank very good, we dont have the assult-range of other corps and we accualy dont do as much dmg as other races eigher, even with the bonus. The trackinspeeds of projectile turrets is worse then every other group of guns so that leavs us with 2 good qualities, speed and cap-usage.
If you want to see facts and not just listen to ppl spamming on forums just look into space. Ppl want the best possible ship when they fly and to be honest, minmatar-patriot as I am. There isnt that many minmatar cruisers in space and havent been for a while now. And as for dmg-bonus vs defensive bonus, they cancel each other out so no loss no gain.
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Reatu Krentor
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Posted - 2004.08.13 00:18:00 -
[1367]
I'm siding with Meshuggah on this, minmatar ships aren't that good actually, the damage bonus on the rupture still only makes it subpar to something as a thorax or caracal or something similar, although the fact that we can use all the cap for defense helps us quite a bit minnie ships simply cant outdamage any other over time because of lower damage(which is not too bad) but mostly because of poor tracking which causes many misses. outlasting other ships is a possibilty but imo a thorax 1v1 with a rupture, the thorax will come out on top simply because rupture cant hit it good enough to do enough damage.
------------------------------------------
The ammatar are not the enemy, they are the smoke and mirrors of the amarr. |
Reatu Krentor
|
Posted - 2004.08.13 00:18:00 -
[1368]
I'm siding with Meshuggah on this, minmatar ships aren't that good actually, the damage bonus on the rupture still only makes it subpar to something as a thorax or caracal or something similar, although the fact that we can use all the cap for defense helps us quite a bit minnie ships simply cant outdamage any other over time because of lower damage(which is not too bad) but mostly because of poor tracking which causes many misses. outlasting other ships is a possibilty but imo a thorax 1v1 with a rupture, the thorax will come out on top simply because rupture cant hit it good enough to do enough damage.
------------------------------------------
The ammatar are not the enemy, they are the smoke and mirrors of the amarr. |
BIRDofPREY
|
Posted - 2004.08.13 01:50:00 -
[1369]
Originally by: Meshuggah
After reading a bit here I see a few ppl complaining on the second bonus of the Rupture. Especialy "Qutsemnie" who seem to look upon the bonus with far from kind eyes.
Since I¦m a minmatar-pilot myself and have been roaming the space for some time now its time for my 2 cents.
Without its damage the minmatar cruisers have lost their place in space. We cant tank very good, we dont have the assult-range of other corps and we accualy dont do as much dmg as other races eigher, even with the bonus. The trackinspeeds of projectile turrets is worse then every other group of guns so that leavs us with 2 good qualities, speed and cap-usage.
If you want to see facts and not just listen to ppl spamming on forums just look into space. Ppl want the best possible ship when they fly and to be honest, minmatar-patriot as I am. There isnt that many minmatar cruisers in space and havent been for a while now. And as for dmg-bonus vs defensive bonus, they cancel each other out so no loss no gain.
I always thought that speed was the minmatar strength. I remember running heel over ass in a Stabber, plastering the other guy with projectile and missiles. 
Great fun that.
Every ship type has a problem and I've flown a number of them. Just reciently I jumped back into a BlackBird, thinking that all those midslots were just too good to pass up. But then I noticed that there are only 2 lower slots. Damn that sux.
The Thorax is great for Drones, but they get owned at long range. The lack of missiles and low power grid is a royal pain in the ass.
Stabbers move like a bat out of hell, but feel a bit under strength in defense
Blackbirds are all EW and in dire need of some pop. 3 missles and a single turret.
Every ship has it's strength, and everyone is just seeing the other guys and not concentrating on their own.
Lets look at the Thorax / Moa thing. If a Moa catches a Thorax at a good distance, the Thorax had just better turn and run, cause he's going to be in bad shape when he gets close enough for his drones. However the Moa has to keep moving. If the Rax mwd's his signature is maxed out and he is guarenteed max damage from every missile hit.
If the Moa finds itself too close to the Rax, take it as a sign and warp out, cause those Heavy Drones are not far away.
The Thorax pilot had better stick to that Moa like glue too.
I was trying to kit out my Raven today and I kept bumping into the PG issue. Now that is a Raven, and I'm still sucking wind on PG issues with Siege Launchers and Nos's. I was actually thankful for the Torp nerf, as I can now put on Heavy launchers with little guilt for those pesky Frigates.
Look, no ship is truly UbbEr 100% of the time. Wrong place and the Wrong time and any ship will get owned. I think the problem here is that everyone is getting waaaay too attached to their ships and is scared that they are going to lose them to some inherent weakness in design.
If you are playing the game then you are. I've gone through 20 ships in combat since last summer when I started playing. The first one was a stabber, the second was a Blackbird, third was a Raven... you get the picture.
EVE can be a great space combat game or a mining simm. You can spend all your time in 0.5 or better and play or you can go hunting the Human element and yes, lose a ship or 19.
Losses
3 Stabbers
2 Blackbirds
2 Thorax's [1 to a moa]
1 Raven [got another, but I can afford to insure it atm]
10+ rifters and Tristans [frigs still are fun]
1 Mammouth
Still flying
Thorax [2 of them]
Blackbird
Raven
Mamouth
Tristan
Rifter
SO go out and get that ship pounded and have fun, instead of sweating the petty crap. After you've piloted an egg as many times as I have, you'll lose that feeling of humilation that goes with being pwnd and start giving the guy that got you the kudos he earned that day and know that he'll be your beyoch soon enough
This has been a long rambling rant by
BIRDofPREY. 
Your 650mm Artillery Cannon I perfectly strikes Serpentis Guard, wrecking for 340.0 damage |
BIRDofPREY
|
Posted - 2004.08.13 01:50:00 -
[1370]
Originally by: Meshuggah
After reading a bit here I see a few ppl complaining on the second bonus of the Rupture. Especialy "Qutsemnie" who seem to look upon the bonus with far from kind eyes.
Since I¦m a minmatar-pilot myself and have been roaming the space for some time now its time for my 2 cents.
Without its damage the minmatar cruisers have lost their place in space. We cant tank very good, we dont have the assult-range of other corps and we accualy dont do as much dmg as other races eigher, even with the bonus. The trackinspeeds of projectile turrets is worse then every other group of guns so that leavs us with 2 good qualities, speed and cap-usage.
If you want to see facts and not just listen to ppl spamming on forums just look into space. Ppl want the best possible ship when they fly and to be honest, minmatar-patriot as I am. There isnt that many minmatar cruisers in space and havent been for a while now. And as for dmg-bonus vs defensive bonus, they cancel each other out so no loss no gain.
I always thought that speed was the minmatar strength. I remember running heel over ass in a Stabber, plastering the other guy with projectile and missiles.
Great fun that.
Every ship type has a problem and I've flown a number of them. Just reciently I jumped back into a BlackBird, thinking that all those midslots were just too good to pass up. But then I noticed that there are only 2 lower slots. Damn that sux.
The Thorax is great for Drones, but they get owned at long range. The lack of missiles and low power grid is a royal pain in the ass.
Stabbers move like a bat out of hell, but feel a bit under strength in defense
Blackbirds are all EW and in dire need of some pop. 3 missles and a single turret.
Every ship has it's strength, and everyone is just seeing the other guys and not concentrating on their own.
Lets look at the Thorax / Moa thing. If a Moa catches a Thorax at a good distance, the Thorax had just better turn and run, cause he's going to be in bad shape when he gets close enough for his drones. However the Moa has to keep moving. If the Rax mwd's his signature is maxed out and he is guarenteed max damage from every missile hit.
If the Moa finds itself too close to the Rax, take it as a sign and warp out, cause those Heavy Drones are not far away.
The Thorax pilot had better stick to that Moa like glue too.
I was trying to kit out my Raven today and I kept bumping into the PG issue. Now that is a Raven, and I'm still sucking wind on PG issues with Siege Launchers and Nos's. I was actually thankful for the Torp nerf, as I can now put on Heavy launchers with little guilt for those pesky Frigates.
Look, no ship is truly UbbEr 100% of the time. Wrong place and the Wrong time and any ship will get owned. I think the problem here is that everyone is getting waaaay too attached to their ships and is scared that they are going to lose them to some inherent weakness in design.
If you are playing the game then you are. I've gone through 20 ships in combat since last summer when I started playing. The first one was a stabber, the second was a Blackbird, third was a Raven... you get the picture.
EVE can be a great space combat game or a mining simm. You can spend all your time in 0.5 or better and play or you can go hunting the Human element and yes, lose a ship or 19.
Losses
3 Stabbers
2 Blackbirds
2 Thorax's [1 to a moa]
1 Raven [got another, but I can afford to insure it atm]
10+ rifters and Tristans [frigs still are fun]
1 Mammouth
Still flying
Thorax [2 of them]
Blackbird
Raven
Mamouth
Tristan
Rifter
SO go out and get that ship pounded and have fun, instead of sweating the petty crap. After you've piloted an egg as many times as I have, you'll lose that feeling of humilation that goes with being pwnd and start giving the guy that got you the kudos he earned that day and know that he'll be your beyoch soon enough
This has been a long rambling rant by
BIRDofPREY.
Your 650mm Artillery Cannon I perfectly strikes Serpentis Guard, wrecking for 340.0 damage |
Iron Jackal
|
Posted - 2004.08.13 01:51:00 -
[1371]
If you are afraid to lose your ship in combat, you should be playing The Simms and not EVE
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Iron Jackal
|
Posted - 2004.08.13 01:51:00 -
[1372]
If you are afraid to lose your ship in combat, you should be playing The Simms and not EVE
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Voltex
|
Posted - 2004.08.13 10:13:00 -
[1373]
just to clarify, this may sound like a noob question, I have a Moa so if i learn each level of caldari cruiser will i only get the shield boost bonus when equipping a shield booster to a Moa? Or if i put an XL Booster on my scorp will the caldari cruiser skill increase that? Just that when i look at my XL booster in my scorp it isn't any higher since patch, still the standard boost.
'Your 250mm Carbide completely misses Guristas Annihilator, Doing 0 damage'
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Voltex
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Posted - 2004.08.13 10:13:00 -
[1374]
just to clarify, this may sound like a noob question, I have a Moa so if i learn each level of caldari cruiser will i only get the shield boost bonus when equipping a shield booster to a Moa? Or if i put an XL Booster on my scorp will the caldari cruiser skill increase that? Just that when i look at my XL booster in my scorp it isn't any higher since patch, still the standard boost.
'Your 250mm Carbide completely misses Guristas Annihilator, Doing 0 damage'
|
Qutsemnie
|
Posted - 2004.08.13 10:46:00 -
[1375]
Edited by: Qutsemnie on 13/08/2004 10:51:09
To the person that said thanks you made the game more interesting. I agree the changes over all seem good. I was just arguing the ruptures second bonus was unusually specialized for a ship that isnt generally a specialist. I think the rupture bonus should be as flexible as a pair as most of the others. Giving the thorax a bonus to the performance of its deployed drones and giving the mwd bonus to the rupture makes more sense to me given the speed of minmater ships. its to late for that now though. Perhaps a combat bonus not tied to med projectiles? But over all the changes are good and interesting.
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Qutsemnie
|
Posted - 2004.08.13 10:46:00 -
[1376]
Edited by: Qutsemnie on 13/08/2004 10:51:09
To the person that said thanks you made the game more interesting. I agree the changes over all seem good. I was just arguing the ruptures second bonus was unusually specialized for a ship that isnt generally a specialist. I think the rupture bonus should be as flexible as a pair as most of the others. Giving the thorax a bonus to the performance of its deployed drones and giving the mwd bonus to the rupture makes more sense to me given the speed of minmater ships. its to late for that now though. Perhaps a combat bonus not tied to med projectiles? But over all the changes are good and interesting.
|
Qutsemnie
|
Posted - 2004.08.13 11:01:00 -
[1377]
Its worth noting that unless your one of the people with cruiser rank 5 theres no reason to take cruiser changes personally. It takes 1.5 days to get back to using any cruiser in the game of any race. It takes a week to get back to level 4.
If you really dont like the changes at a personal level in 1.5 days you dont have to worry about it anymore.
I myself was just arguing at the aesthetic level.
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Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2004.08.13 11:01:00 -
[1378]
Its worth noting that unless your one of the people with cruiser rank 5 theres no reason to take cruiser changes personally. It takes 1.5 days to get back to using any cruiser in the game of any race. It takes a week to get back to level 4.
If you really dont like the changes at a personal level in 1.5 days you dont have to worry about it anymore.
I myself was just arguing at the aesthetic level.
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Rob Mattacks
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Posted - 2004.08.13 18:41:00 -
[1379]
Originally by: Qutsemnie
Its worth noting that unless your one of the people with cruiser rank 5 theres no reason to take cruiser changes personally. It takes 1.5 days to get back to using any cruiser in the game of any race. It takes a week to get back to level 4.
If you really dont like the changes at a personal level in 1.5 days you dont have to worry about it anymore.
I myself was just arguing at the aesthetic level.
There is the role-playing issue though as lots of people like to fly their own race ships and rightly so imo...
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Rob Mattacks
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Posted - 2004.08.13 18:41:00 -
[1380]
Originally by: Qutsemnie
Its worth noting that unless your one of the people with cruiser rank 5 theres no reason to take cruiser changes personally. It takes 1.5 days to get back to using any cruiser in the game of any race. It takes a week to get back to level 4.
If you really dont like the changes at a personal level in 1.5 days you dont have to worry about it anymore.
I myself was just arguing at the aesthetic level.
There is the role-playing issue though as lots of people like to fly their own race ships and rightly so imo...
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