Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 25 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Mioelnir
Minmatar Meltd0wn Imperial Republic Of the North
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:20:00 -
[151]
-- it may or may not be a bad thing, largely depending on the ranks of the 'skills' you can lose. Beyond Rank 2 it gets really really ugly really really fast.
-- suicide SP-ganking in highsec out of pure spite will become a problem. Too many Eve players tick that way for this not to escalate. |
Raddick Tseng
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:22:00 -
[152]
If done right this could be a great idea. With the right formula to determine SP lost not just an abatraly 1 level lost.
Something like Base SP Loss x modifier for number and quality of bouses x number of T3 ships lost in a given time frame.
So a ship with say a min bounus and no other T3 ships lost in the set time frame might set you back an hour or 2 or as little has 20-30 min. If you are going through T3s with max bonuses like candy you could lose days of training per ship.
I think the Set Time Frame should be 15-30 DT cycles. Or the time it takes to train from 0SP to level skill 5 for average character. |
Juwi Kotch
Gallente VIRTUAL LIFE VANGUARD Intrepid Crossing
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:23:00 -
[153]
Edited by: Juwi Kotch on 07/02/2009 21:23:32
Originally by: Akita T Knowing CCP and their pre-nerf tendency, it will be:
T3 - Rubbish ships. Stupidly expensive. Lose one and you suffer more than a blinky wallet.
You now them well, Akita, and I would not be surprised at all if this will actually be the case.
Let's wait and see. CCP is generally not stupid. They always said that T3 neither will make T2 redundant, nor will it give out ownage tickets to the pilots. Maybe they end up as special purpose ships, very hard to kill, but not doing lots of damage.
They would not provide a complete new technology tree for just a few very ambitious and adventurous pilots, and simply not acceptable to the majority because of unacceptable risks and costs.
So right now we are only speculating, and we need to wait just another week until we can see on Sisi what it is all about.
Greetings
Juwi Kotch |
Ris Dnalor
Minmatar Ex Cruoris Libertas
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:23:00 -
[154]
Edited by: Ris Dnalor on 07/02/2009 21:24:19 What if it's the ship that learns, not you. So that the longer you fly the same ship, the better that ships bonuses get... a sort of symbiosis forming between you and your ship... and when you start with a new ship, that starts over.
no training time taken away from your other skills. Nothing added or subtracted to your skillpoints. Rather an attribute of the ship that increases the more it's flown. I'm willing to bet this is what CCP is after. And if it is, it will rule. |
Zurin Arctus
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:24:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Sheriff Jones Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 07/02/2009 21:19:17 You know why you don't like us old folk talking about this? Because we're right.
We've been here, through thick and thin, through snow and sleet, and we're still here.
Take it, own it love it, hat's how this goes
Your sentimental tripe is making me sick to my stomach. Look, maybe you're passive enough to 'adapt' to any lame, idiotic changes CCP makes with your money. I'm not. |
Kiotsu Adler
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:25:00 -
[156]
If this is not tied to main SP system, excellent idea; otherwise, terrible idea. |
Grath Telkin
Amarr The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:25:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Zurin Arctus
Your sentimental tripe is making me sick to my stomach. Look, maybe you're passive enough to 'adapt' to any lame, idiotic changes CCP makes with your money. I'm not.
Good, quit, were all waiting for the contracts from your stuff |
Cailais
Amarr 0utbreak
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:26:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Cailais You mean 'o' not 'L' - if you're gonna troll me over a typo at least get it right yourself.
Wanted to check if you actually read my posts or just replied in a generic contrary manner
Touche. And yes I did read your post, dont get me wrong the devil here will be in the details - what SPs? how long do they take to train? Is it a dual training process? How good are the ship parts? How available (and therefore costly) will they be?
Those details aren't known yet - but I still believe that in principal a 'SP loss' mechanic isn't totally anti EVE. It exists in a diluted form with the clone process (although you're only going to drop SPs from that if you're forgetful and dont upgrade your clone). Its still there though.
(Apols for the CNR comment btw, cheap low blow).
C.
C.
|
Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:26:00 -
[159]
I like this idea with loss of SP. |
Doctor Penguin
Amarr Shadow Command Tenth Legion
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:27:00 -
[160]
TBH, the important thing is that SiSi is getting the update next week, so we can all go on there, test out wormholes and buy lots of T3 ships to have ze funs with.
Until then, who cares. >.> |
|
Balsak
Minmatar Es and Whizz
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:27:00 -
[161]
So far there is only one fact in this whole thread and that is people are *****ing and crying over something they know nothing about. Everything else is pure speculation based off nothing but fear. I guess if CCP prenerfs then people can prewhine too. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:27:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Juwi Kotch
Originally by: Akita T Knowing CCP and their pre-nerf tendency, it will be: T3 - Rubbish ships. Stupidly expensive. Lose one and you suffer more than a blinky wallet.
You now them well, Akita, and I would not be surprised at all if this will actually be the case. Let's wait and see. CCP is generally not stupid.
Generally, no. But they have "dunce-cap moments" every now and then. And when a dev tells you "if it turns out that this mechanic or any other is not working out based on that feedback then we will change it or remove it"... you can expect a lot of "fail" in that particular field. Hell, when they come and say "we have this GREAT idea, you will LOVE it", even then I'm a bit skeptical (like, for instance, the Marauders and Black Ops)... but when they're not so convinced themselves, expect a flamefest once exact details are made public.
|
Clair Bear
Perkone
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:27:00 -
[163]
This could be pure win if not pre-nerfed too much.
Nobody said the new skills will take freaking years to build up and have tons of 'Pointless Timesink (8)' at V prerequisites.
Think about this for a moment. What if you can be competent in a T3 ship in a day or two, very good in a week and godlike after a month? Then the skill loss will not be as devastation as say losing carrier V, yet still hurt enough to make it worthwhile to avoid dying.
Could be a stealth buff to station tanking and gank warfare, but we'll see. |
Disteeler
Segunda Fundacion Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:27:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Ris Dnalor Edited by: Ris Dnalor on 07/02/2009 21:24:19 What if it's the ship that learns, not you. So that the longer you fly the same ship, the better that ships bonuses get... a sort of symbiosis forming between you and your ship... and when you start with a new ship, that starts over.
no training time taken away from your other skills. Nothing added or subtracted to your skillpoints. Rather an attribute of the ship that increases the more it's flown. I'm willing to bet this is what CCP is after. And if it is, it will rule.
Yes, it's what I think. Some sort of skill system just for T3. Like your tripulation gets better with time or something like that. |
Natasha Zenith
Caldari Crushed Ambitions
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:28:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Kiotsu Adler If this is not tied to main SP system, excellent idea; otherwise, terrible idea.
This, I am not willing to lose my own SP but if its the ships skill that is loss well that is a whole other story. |
Grath Telkin
Amarr The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:29:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Balsak So far there is only one fact in this whole thread and that is people are *****ing and crying over something they know nothing about. Everything else is pure speculation based off nothing but fear. I guess if CCP prenerfs then people can prewhine too.
Actually, the biggest ninny is Zurin, everybody else seems fairly calm |
Balsak
Minmatar Es and Whizz
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:29:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Ris Dnalor Edited by: Ris Dnalor on 07/02/2009 21:24:19 What if it's the ship that learns, not you. So that the longer you fly the same ship, the better that ships bonuses get... a sort of symbiosis forming between you and your ship... and when you start with a new ship, that starts over.
no training time taken away from your other skills. Nothing added or subtracted to your skillpoints. Rather an attribute of the ship that increases the more it's flown. I'm willing to bet this is what CCP is after. And if it is, it will rule.
QFT |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:29:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Ris Dnalor Edited by: Ris Dnalor on 07/02/2009 21:24:19 What if it's the ship that learns, not you. So that the longer you fly the same ship, the better that ships bonuses get... a sort of symbiosis forming between you and your ship... and when you start with a new ship, that starts over.
no training time taken away from your other skills. Nothing added or subtracted to your skillpoints. Rather an attribute of the ship that increases the more it's flown. I'm willing to bet this is what CCP is after. And if it is, it will rule.
That's what I assumed it would be too. |
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:30:00 -
[169]
Edited by: Zeba on 07/02/2009 21:31:01 nvm didnt see that other post.
|
Abrazzar
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:30:00 -
[170]
This system is only the first step of a necessary mechanic.
Next step would be to remove clone grades and have you lose SPs whenever you get podded, depending on the total amount of SPs you have. This will allow new players to catch up with old players as low SP players lose fewer SPs on death.
Skills can be prioritized for loss, so you don't lose skills you consider vital and instead lose those pesky Mining I and other carebear skills you barely need. Skills can be completely forgotten and you will need to buy a new skillbook should that happen.
Just to add to the general nonsense in this thread. |
|
Dictum Factum
Dark-Rising
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:36:00 -
[171]
No more risk-free PvP? What ever shall we do? |
Cailais
Amarr 0utbreak
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:37:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Ris Dnalor Edited by: Ris Dnalor on 07/02/2009 21:24:19 What if it's the ship that learns, not you. So that the longer you fly the same ship, the better that ships bonuses get... a sort of symbiosis forming between you and your ship... and when you start with a new ship, that starts over.
no training time taken away from your other skills. Nothing added or subtracted to your skillpoints. Rather an attribute of the ship that increases the more it's flown. I'm willing to bet this is what CCP is after. And if it is, it will rule.
That's what I assumed it would be too.
I think this is exactly what we'll be getting. In EON CCP talked about T3 ships 'winsauce' leaking out if you disassembled them. This would relate nicely to a symbiotic relationship between pilot and his ship. The ship AND the pilot combined 'grow'.
I doubt the system will mean once youre T3 ship is destroyed you have to wait to fly one again, but that you're simply not as proficient in that ship as you had been.
Increasing your competency in that one specific ship comes at a price of course and possibly to the detriment of say training more generically. T3 pilots will be quite an unusual breed - eskewing the traditional path of frig>cruiser>BS>dread>titan.
C.
|
Garr Anders
Minmatar Thukk U
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:39:00 -
[173]
I remember that somewhere someone from CCP said that your ship learns stuff, so when you disasemble it or loose it the stuff that was learned gets lost.
Yeah, I know thats very vague, but it could make sense, as in that when you fly your T3 assemebled, it gains SP to reduce drawbacks from whatever increasing its abilities/boost/boni, so being a different pool of SP.
If you dont fly it, it doesnt learn anything but well if you loose it, SP of that particular ship are gone.
IMHO, I really think that the SP are tied to the ship, so you maybe can "sell trained ships", so if you eject, the SPs will belong more the to ship than to you.
Together with the fact that sleepers might be a new kind of drones with a different AI and that the new T3 is dependent on the sleeper technology it "would make sense" that once assembeld ships could "learn" and thus train certain stuff.
Whatever they might learn, getting more powergrind, cpu, sensorstrenght, could resemeble the ship bonus you get when you increase minmatar cruiser from I to V but now these are tied to the hull as long as it stays intact.
But again, this is all just rabble rabble rabble rabble and all just put together from hearsay.... ----- Garr Anders
"The only winning move is not to play" is about the best damn advice anyone can get regarding arguing over the internet. - referring to the Movie WarGames 1983
|
Irida Mershkov
Gallente Noir.
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:42:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Dr Ming
People play MMOs to make their characters better. Introducing a gameplay mechanic that does the exact opposite of that is not going to be a popular mechanic.
Orly? 'Cause losing your skill points when getting podded without an active clone isn't that popular? That's never been seen as a problem.
T3 just applies a bigger label to, "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose."
|
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:43:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Zurin Arctus
...Do you read your own posts?
Bellum, please. You only like this mechanic because it would mean a free ride for station-hugging garbage like you that rarely lose ships because you run and hide whenever a fair fight comes your way.
LOL. Post with your main btw.
Frankly, I think that the SP loss idea is total crap, but if it does end up on TQ, which it probably will, I'll be at the top of the list of those using T3. Fair fight? If a fight is fair you didn't prepare well enough. And don't talk to me about fair. I get 15-20 man gangs coming by to try and kill our 3-4 man gangs all the time. Nobody fights fair, ever, if they can help it.
And for the record, I rarely fight on a station, mostly due to the fact that nobody ever engages me there. They'd rather engage on a high sec gate where they have all the advantage. But I can understand how anyone fighting me would need every advantage they could possibly get.
Why don't you post with your main so I know what kind of garbage I'm replying to?
Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Death of Virtue is Recruiting
|
Cailais
Amarr 0utbreak
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:44:00 -
[176]
Assuming the ship 'learns' in its own right (we'll have to see if this is the case') the role of Piracy - and by that I mean the traditional role of capturing a ship intact will get a massive boost.
Perhaps the 'skill points' are distributed in some fashion between pilot and ship? Forced to eject and you keep your SPs. Go down with your ship and you lose them?
C.
Originally by: Capa So if you wake up one morning and it's a particularly beautiful day, you'll know we made it.
|
Tippia
Raddick Explorations BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:45:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Irida Mershkov Orly? 'Cause losing your skill points when getting podded without an active clone isn't that popular? That's never been seen as a problem.
That's because you can cough up some cash to be completely safe from that kind of loss, and you're never put in a position where this protection can't be bought (well, short of having no cash left). ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:47:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Cailais dont get me wrong the devil here will be in the details - what SPs? how long do they take to train? Is it a dual training process? How good are the ship parts? How available (and therefore costly) will they be?
Well, let's see... we have the following possibilities:
1. Subsystem-skill training time : a) very short (below rank 1 equivalent) -> b) average (rank 1 equivalent) -> c) high (anything above that) Also, you can expect at least 3, maybe 5 subsystem types.
2. Subsystem skill training type : a) all the time while T3 ship is assembled and in any hangar of yours ALONGSIDE normal skills -> b) only when in T3 ship (or only in space doing something with it) ALONGSIDE normal skills -> c) INSTEAD of normal skills
3. Subsystem-skill loss : a) very low on disassembly / medium for ship loss -> b) average -> c) medium for disassembly / severe for ship loss
4. Subsystem-skills : a) linked to ship alone -> b) linked to pilot alone -> c) linked to ship+pilot combo
5. T3 component costs : a) average (if they drop like flies from everything in "W-Space" and are very small) -> b) high (if they drop slightly often and are small enough to make a trip worth the risks) -> c) stupidly high (expected if current exploration rewards are to be any indication)
6. T3 ship performance (assumed L4 "subsystem skills") : a) overall between T1 and T2 but with high customisability -> b) slightly below T2 overall but with very strong "niche" points not covered by T2 yet -> c) slightly above T2 with certain strong points ____
Now, 1a makes pretty much everything pointless, since there's no big deal between a L4 and a L5 subsystem skill, and just waiting a day or so might get you there. 1c is way too harsh to be even considered unless you also do a lot more concessions in the points below (unlikely), so we are left with something similar to 1b as the only remotely feasable alternative.
2a would be too lenient and therefore unlikely, 2c is downright idiotic (and I hope I don't have to explain why), so we have 2b as the only reasonable alternative too.
At point 3, I really don't know - that's the only place where everything COULD work, as it has the least overall influence.
4a would mean carebears could "level up" the ship by simply staying in it, so it's out of the question. 4b would make little sense, I just included it for completness' sake. So, we have option 4c as the only reasonable alternative.
5a is so unlikely it's not even worth considering. 5b would be remotely feasable, but I strongly doubt CCP would do that (for many different reasons). So, we have 5c as the most likely alternative.
6a is sadly the most likely scenario. 6b would be nice, but unlikely... what niches AREN'T already filled by T2 anyway ? And would we really need something with a stronger niche role as T2 ? 6c is almost completely out of the question.
So, yeah, the devil IS in the details. T3 will be so heavily pre-nerfed it's not even worth talking about, and now they ALSO want to add some OTHER drawback on top of it ? Or, do they want THIS particular drawback to be the main "pre-nerf", and not actually pre-nerf them much or at all ? Either way, not a good outlook.
Take it as you will
_ Create a character || Fit a ship || Get some ISK |
Dau Imperius
Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:50:00 -
[179]
Whoo hoo. If thiis true then I say, adapt or die you PvPers. Myself, I'll be happily usiig mine in high sec space. Especially since I can't get a dread or carrier there. Seems fair to me; Lose your SP's for being cannon fodder. :) Might make you all actually think for once...Nah, that will never happen.
|
Dr Ming
Mindworks
|
Posted - 2009.02.07 21:50:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Irida Mershkov
Originally by: Dr Ming
People play MMOs to make their characters better. Introducing a gameplay mechanic that does the exact opposite of that is not going to be a popular mechanic.
Orly? 'Cause losing your skill points when getting podded without an active clone isn't that popular? That's never been seen as a problem.
T3 just applies a bigger label to, "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose."
If you tell someone that you fly without updated clones, they will tell you that your stupid.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 25 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |