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L046
Stripey Industrial Beast
Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2009.02.09 10:12:00 -
[511]
From concord.
we are sorry for you recent loss, as you were in a t3 ship we have taken 256,000 skill points from the t3 group. as ccp is feeling nice, you can have your skill points back if you pay us teh very resonible price of 15 euros. please enter you CC details below and foward this to the 'you just got scammed by ccp department.
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bff Jill
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Posted - 2009.02.09 10:13:00 -
[512]
Since skill points are based on fixed time, a system that loses skillpoints rewards people who play less. Since they will lose fewer ships in a given period of time, but gain the same amount of skill points as someone who plays more.
Isk on the other hand is different, since everyone has to put effort into making it, and everyone loses it.
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Reven Cordelle
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.02.09 10:15:00 -
[513]
Everyone knows T3 are just going to be the new CNR's anyway...
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bff Jill
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Posted - 2009.02.09 10:19:00 -
[514]
 Originally by: Gorefacer
Originally by: bff Jill
Originally by: Grath Telkin
I wonder what all you people thought happened when T2 first came out?
The ships were astronomically expensive compared to now, and yet, miraculously people still flew them into combat.
Hell, BoB built an alliance around the fact that they had so many high sp alts in the alliance, all packing t2 when everybody else was still fumbling in the dark.
The ships will get used, I'd bet my billions on it.
Isk can always be remade, skillpoints are lost forever 0_0
You only need enough isk to do what you want to do, but you always need more skillpoints.
Only people with everyskillat5 can afford to lose skillpoints, and those people who have everyskillat5 are obviously going to be flying a typhoon 
I can afford to lose skill points. I flew my ships just fine months ago with millions less SP and could do so again with that same amount. In fact I didn't upgrade my clone and got popped losing BS V not long ago. While frustrating I continued to play as I always do right up to the time I got the skill back. If I were to risk those SP though I would want an acceptably powerful advantage for doing so.
Skillpoints are only lost until they can be retrained.
Actually CCP, go ahead and do this. I hope everyone uses t3 ships and i will continue to gain power while they all sit there with fixed number of skillpoints constantly retraining the same skills over and over and over.
Also you can not have a more powerful ship, CCP already said t3 is just an alternative to t2, meaning they will not be more powerful than t2, just more flexible.
Im assuming this means for example, a t3 ship will do less dps than a hac, but probably have more mid slots. Or less damage than a hac, but be quite fast. Or less damage than a hac, but have loads of cargo space for cap injectors to tank that hac 0_0. Or as much damage as a hac, and thats it, because its on par with t2
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Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2009.02.09 10:23:00 -
[515]
Originally by: bff Jill
Isk can always be remade, skillpoints are lost forever 0_0
Uh... What?
Aren't both of those pretty much based in Time = X amount of either?
If it takes me 2 hours to make 50 mil isk or 2 hours to make 5000 SP, what is the real difference if I lose either of them?
I would argue that it is easier to lose the SP since I can get that back while watching MacGuiver reruns. The isk otoh, I have to at least do a bit of hauling/trading to recoup. Or run some missions. Or whatever. Some sort of engage brain a bit activity.
SP gain = stupid easy mode
ISK gain = easy (just not as easy as SP) mode
I think people have just got it so ingrained in their noggins that SP ever increasing is the only way to be. SP going down = OMG FREAKOut Time!!
It's silly this thread is 17 pages. Let's wait for the dev blog.
----
≡v≡ |
Aylara
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Posted - 2009.02.09 10:25:00 -
[516]
If our T3 ships will be alive and have their own skill tree, i don't see why not lose SP when they'll get destroyed or repackaged. Those SP's will be taken from the ship, not from your character.
And your ship could be resurrected pretty much like your own clone by making a backup of "the core" in a station.
Now, this will be OK in my opinion!
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Paul Morphy
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Posted - 2009.02.09 10:26:00 -
[517]
Originally by: L046
From concord.
we are sorry for you recent loss, as you were in a t3 ship we have taken 256,000 skill points from the t3 group. as ccp is feeling nice, you can have your skill points back if you pay us teh very resonible price of 15 euros. please enter you CC details below and foward this to the 'you just got scammed by ccp department.
lol
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Dristra
Amarr
Idle Haven
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Posted - 2009.02.09 10:45:00 -
[518]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Originally by: ResearchBunny Beatrix
Originally by: MotherMoon
where the hell is the dev blog with it coming out for testing in under 20 hours?
Quiet, they're still trying to make sure it doesn't nuke boot.ini again.
I guess loosing SP is nothing compared to loosing boot.ini 
that's for tech 5 mate :)
ou can solo like 20 battlehsips in a tech 5 jovian battleship. But when you die you lose your operating system.
Epic win. |
Atius Tirawa
Minmatar
Destructive Influence
KenZoku
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Posted - 2009.02.09 10:55:00 -
[519]
Edited by: Atius Tirawa on 09/02/2009 10:56:05
forget it. . .srsly. . .worst idea ever
T3 ships are gonna be for mission runners I guess. . . |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.02.09 10:57:00 -
[520]
Originally by: Atius Tirawa
Edited by: Atius Tirawa on 09/02/2009 10:56:05
forget it. . .srsly. . .worst idea ever
T3 ships are gonna be for mission runners I guess. . .
just eject.
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bff Jill
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Posted - 2009.02.09 10:58:00 -
[521]
Originally by: Roy Batty68
Originally by: bff Jill
Isk can always be remade, skillpoints are lost forever 0_0
Uh... What?
Aren't both of those pretty much based in Time = X amount of either?
If it takes me 2 hours to make 50 mil isk or 2 hours to make 5000 SP, what is the real difference if I lose either of them?
I would argue that it is easier to lose the SP since I can get that back while watching MacGuiver reruns. The isk otoh, I have to at least do a bit of hauling/trading to recoup. Or run some missions. Or whatever. Some sort of engage brain a bit activity.
SP gain = stupid easy mode
ISK gain = easy (just not as easy as SP) mode
I think people have just got it so ingrained in their noggins that SP ever increasing is the only way to be. SP going down = OMG FREAKOut Time!!
It's silly this thread is 17 pages. Let's wait for the dev blog.
No, its different. Isk is made with work, skillpoints are just pure time. While work takes time, some work is better at making isk than others. Also you only need a certain ammount of isk. Get more isk and theres not much you can do with it. You only need enough isk to do the things that you are able to do, which is defined by your skillpoints.
While isk may dictate what you can do at any given time skillpoints are your characters potential. A characters potential continues to grow from the day its born until it stops gaining skillpoints.
You dont say i have an Xisk character, you say the character is xskillpoints, because that's what matters.
You can always use more skill points, even if you max out every skill for a certain profession in the game, you can start training another one. Once you get those skills all trained up you have another option, another thing you can do. Nobody has every skill trained, as its been said that's impossible as CCP always adds skills faster than you can train them.
your skill points are a continuing journey~, what training path will you take?~ |
bff Jill
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Posted - 2009.02.09 11:00:00 -
[522]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Atius Tirawa
Edited by: Atius Tirawa on 09/02/2009 10:56:05
forget it. . .srsly. . .worst idea ever
T3 ships are gonna be for mission runners I guess. . .
just eject.
and leave all your poor crew behind, how horrible  |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.02.09 11:00:00 -
[523]
Originally by: bff Jill
You can always use more skill points, even if you max out every skill for a certain profession in the game, you can start training another one. Once you get those skills all trained up you have another option, another thing you can do. Nobody has every skill trained, as its been said that's impossible as CCP always adds skills faster than you can train them.
your skill points are a continuing journey~, what training path will you take?~
I wil take the risky path, which may lead me to many great victories, and many devastating loses. But for me, the risk is worth the reward.
This is why I play eve 
This is why I fly a firetail into PVP!
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Ivena Amethyst
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Posted - 2009.02.09 11:02:00 -
[524]
'tis stealth-boost to ejecting to make it a viable option in pvp methinks |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2009.02.09 11:03:00 -
[525]
Edited by: Sheriff Jones on 09/02/2009 11:02:50
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: bff Jill
You can always use more skill points, even if you max out every skill for a certain profession in the game, you can start training another one. Once you get those skills all trained up you have another option, another thing you can do. Nobody has every skill trained, as its been said that's impossible as CCP always adds skills faster than you can train them.
your skill points are a continuing journey~, what training path will you take?~
I wil take the risky path, which may lead me to many great victories, and many devastating loses. But for me, the risk is worth the reward.
This is why I play eve
This is why I fly a firetail into PVP!
And this is why some people fit beams and armor rep to a blackbird  |
bff Jill
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Posted - 2009.02.09 11:03:00 -
[526]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: bff Jill
You can always use more skill points, even if you max out every skill for a certain profession in the game, you can start training another one. Once you get those skills all trained up you have another option, another thing you can do. Nobody has every skill trained, as its been said that's impossible as CCP always adds skills faster than you can train them.
your skill points are a continuing journey~, what training path will you take?~
I wil take the risky path, which may lead me to many great victories, and many devastating loses. But for me, the risk is worth the reward.
This is why I play eve
This is why I fly a firetail into PVP!
you dont get a reward with t3 ships other than 'ohh! modular!1'
Only risk. you gain nothing but risk.
Frigates are fairly low risk ships because they can get away easily, particularly when they are that fast =P |
Sheriff Jones
Amarr
Clinical Experiment
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Posted - 2009.02.09 11:04:00 -
[527]
Originally by: bff Jill
you dont get a reward with t3 ships other than 'ohh! modular!1'
Only risk. you gain nothing but risk.
Frigates are fairly low risk ships because they can get away easily, particularly when they are that fast =P
First, don't know the rewards.
Second, HC mode in diablo was fun as hell even if the risk was to lose a character you've worked on for ages. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.02.09 11:06:00 -
[528]
Originally by: bff Jill
you dont get a reward with t3 ships other than 'ohh! modular!1'
Only risk. you gain nothing but risk.
Frigates are fairly low risk ships because they can get away easily, particularly when they are that fast =P
sounds like what they said about tech 2  |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.02.09 11:10:00 -
[529]
Originally by: bff Jill
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Atius Tirawa
Edited by: Atius Tirawa on 09/02/2009 10:56:05
forget it. . .srsly. . .worst idea ever
T3 ships are gonna be for mission runners I guess. . .
just eject.
and leave all your poor crew behind, how horrible
I'm sure the guy that beat me will love his new free tech 3 cruiser. |
bff Jill
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Posted - 2009.02.09 11:14:00 -
[530]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: bff Jill
you dont get a reward with t3 ships other than 'ohh! modular!1'
Only risk. you gain nothing but risk.
Frigates are fairly low risk ships because they can get away easily, particularly when they are that fast =P
sounds like what they said about tech 2
The problem here, is that even if a t3 cruiser is slightly better than a t2 cruiser. (and if it is then CCP has messed up somewhere anyway)
its still a cruiser. If you have the skillpoints to throw away you obviously should have enough skillpoints to fly a BC well enough for roaming around and soloing.
Currently tier2 BCs are better than HACs anyway.
t3 cruiser will be failure.
And ejecting? The enemy will just capture your ship them. That sounds really neat and nice and awesome, particularly for piracy, but the problem is w-space. It exists to supply t3 ship parts. If suddenly t3 ships stop being blown up but just get traded around because everyone's always ejecting, t3 ship prices will fall, w-space will lose its 'reward', and thus will not be worth the risk, and it will sit there.
In order for w-space to be a huge success t3 ship must also be a huge sucsess. And not just being used, but being used to pvp and being destroyed so that they need to be replaced. |
Navtiqes
Englebarna
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Posted - 2009.02.09 11:20:00 -
[531]
Originally by: Roy Batty68
Originally by: bff Jill
Isk can always be remade, skillpoints are lost forever 0_0
Uh... What?
Aren't both of those pretty much based in Time = X amount of either?
You forgot the important part:
ISK is spent to give you stuff.
SP accumulates to unlock stuff.
You can always get back the 100k ISK you spent, but you'll never get back the 100k SP you lost, because the time spent training it "back" is time you'd otherwise use on getting new SP. The exception would be if there's a payback system which lets you double how much SP you train untill you made back the 100K. |
Bethulsunamen
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Posted - 2009.02.09 11:29:00 -
[532]
Originally by: Navtiqes
Originally by: Roy Batty68
Originally by: bff Jill
Isk can always be remade, skillpoints are lost forever 0_0
Uh... What?
Aren't both of those pretty much based in Time = X amount of either?
You forgot the important part:
ISK is spent to give you stuff.
SP accumulates to unlock stuff.
You can always get back the 100k ISK you spent, but you'll never get back the 100k SP you lost, because the time spent training it "back" is time you'd otherwise use on getting new SP. The exception would be if there's a payback system which lets you double how much SP you train untill you made back the 100K.
But its the same thing.....
You spend TIME to get isk.
You spend TIME to get skillpoints.
If you loose isk, you have to spend that TIME again to regain it.
If you loose skillpoints, you have to spend that TIME again to regain it.
Its all the same! |
Navtiqes
Englebarna
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Posted - 2009.02.09 11:36:00 -
[533]
Originally by: Bethulsunamen
Originally by: Navtiqes
Originally by: Roy Batty68
Originally by: bff Jill
Isk can always be remade, skillpoints are lost forever 0_0
Uh... What?
Aren't both of those pretty much based in Time = X amount of either?
You forgot the important part:
ISK is spent to give you stuff.
SP accumulates to unlock stuff.
You can always get back the 100k ISK you spent, but you'll never get back the 100k SP you lost, because the time spent training it "back" is time you'd otherwise use on getting new SP. The exception would be if there's a payback system which lets you double how much SP you train untill you made back the 100K.
But its the same thing.....
You spend TIME to get isk.
You spend TIME to get skillpoints.
If you loose isk, you have to spend that TIME again to regain it.
If you loose skillpoints, you have to spend that TIME again to regain it.
Its all the same!
ISK is like urine. You spend time building up urine and then you waste it away. SP is like blood. Your body spends time reproducing it and keeping it fresh, but if you waste your blood away you grow weaker. |
Bethulsunamen
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Posted - 2009.02.09 11:38:00 -
[534]
Originally by: Navtiqes
ISK is like urine. You spend time building up urine and then you waste it away. SP is like blood. Your body spends time reproducing it and keeping it fresh, but if you waste your blood away you grow weaker.
You just won the thread.  |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.02.09 11:43:00 -
[535]
Originally by: Navtiqes
ISK is like urine. You spend time building up urine and then you waste it away. SP is like blood. Your body spends time reproducing it and keeping it fresh, but if you waste your blood away you grow weaker.
no, sorry.
Isk and sp aren't much different in terms of what they are wroth when compared to time.
the only real differenance is new players and vets gain sp at thwe same rate. but in fact this is also a lie, as sp is not important, levels are. so newer players gain levels about 50 times faster than vets.
which means vets lose more sp when they don't update a clone, and such.
Poor vets will have to risk something again, oh noes. |
bff Jill
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Posted - 2009.02.09 11:46:00 -
[536]
Originally by: Bethulsunamen
Originally by: Navtiqes
Originally by: Roy Batty68
Originally by: bff Jill
Isk can always be remade, skillpoints are lost forever 0_0
Uh... What?
Aren't both of those pretty much based in Time = X amount of either?
You forgot the important part:
ISK is spent to give you stuff.
SP accumulates to unlock stuff.
You can always get back the 100k ISK you spent, but you'll never get back the 100k SP you lost, because the time spent training it "back" is time you'd otherwise use on getting new SP. The exception would be if there's a payback system which lets you double how much SP you train untill you made back the 100K.
But its the same thing.....
You spend TIME to get isk.
You spend TIME to get skillpoints.
If you loose isk, you have to spend that TIME again to regain it.
If you loose skillpoints, you have to spend that TIME again to regain it.
Its all the same!
No, its not. And if you start talking about sp training time in equivalency to isk making time, then things start looking even worse, dieing once in a t3 cruiser and deleveling from 5 ro 4 is the same as mining 1.2billion isk in a hulk.
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Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2009.02.09 11:48:00 -
[537]
Originally by: Navtiqes
You can always get back the 100k ISK you spent, but you'll never get back the 100k SP you lost, because the time spent training it "back" is time you'd otherwise use on getting new SP. The exception would be if there's a payback system which lets you double how much SP you train untill you made back the 100K.
Well, you've proved my point. It's just a matter of how you look at it. If you are trying to round up enough isk for a carrier, that 100mil isk you lost to pirates "you will never get back" because you would have been making more isk towards your goal rather than making that 100mil isk over again. Samey same.
Another thing that adds to this is that we all sort of lie to each other about our SPs. If some corp hires you as an intercepter pilot, and you are absolutely maxed in those skills (lets say 20mil SP), but you tell them you are a 50mil SP intercepter pilot, who really cares about that other 30mil SP? Besides you? Yeah, you may have other goals such as I want to fly a marauder at some point, but that doesn't really fit the current context of discussing your SP.
Meh, whatever. I'm not trying to argue for whatever this t3 design might be (because it sounds a bit lame tbh). I just think that people are little skewed in their thinking about SP. We're all just used to having the clone security blanket to ensure that we are always progressing in that area of character development. The thought of having that security blanket removed is what is freaking us out. Not that it is totally different than other areas of the game, it's just not what we're used to.
Besides, are we even sure that this is about character SP? What if it is something the ship itself accrues? That'd be weird, eh? But it would make sense that you would lose those skill points if it's attributed to the ship. That's why I say we should wait for the dev blog.
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MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.02.09 11:52:00 -
[538]
Originally by: bff Jill
] dieing once in a t3 cruiser and deleveling from 5 ro 4 is the same as mining 1.2billion isk in a hulk.
IF your dumb enough to train that high. If you think the risk of that bonus being that much higher is wroth 1.2 billion isk then do it.
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bff Jill
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Posted - 2009.02.09 11:56:00 -
[539]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: bff Jill
] dieing once in a t3 cruiser and deleveling from 5 ro 4 is the same as mining 1.2billion isk in a hulk.
IF your dumb enough to train that high. If you think the risk of that bonus being that much higher is wroth 1.2 billion isk then do it.
A skill that is hurts you by training it to 5 sounds broken to me.
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Navtiqes
Englebarna
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Posted - 2009.02.09 11:58:00 -
[540]
Edited by: Navtiqes on 09/02/2009 11:59:02
Originally by: Roy Batty68
Originally by: Navtiqes
You can always get back the 100k ISK you spent, but you'll never get back the 100k SP you lost, because the time spent training it "back" is time you'd otherwise use on getting new SP. The exception would be if there's a payback system which lets you double how much SP you train untill you made back the 100K.
Well, you've proved my point. It's just a matter of how you look at it. If you are trying to round up enough isk for a carrier, that 100mil isk you lost to pirates "you will never get back" because you would have been making more isk towards your goal rather than making that 100mil isk over again. Samey same.
Another thing that adds to this is that we all sort of lie to each other about our SPs. If some corp hires you as an intercepter pilot, and you are absolutely maxed in those skills (lets say 20mil SP), but you tell them you are a 50mil SP intercepter pilot, who really cares about that other 30mil SP? Besides you? Yeah, you may have other goals such as I want to fly a marauder at some point, but that doesn't really fit the current context of discussing your SP.
Meh, whatever. I'm not trying to argue for whatever this t3 design might be (because it sounds a bit lame tbh). I just think that people are little skewed in their thinking about SP. We're all just used to having the clone security blanket to ensure that we are always progressing in that area of character development. The thought of having that security blanket removed is what is freaking us out. Not that it is totally different than other areas of the game, it's just not what we're used to.
Besides, are we even sure that this is about character SP? What if it is something the ship itself accrues? That'd be weird, eh? But it would make sense that you would lose those skill points if it's attributed to the ship. That's why I say we should wait for the dev blog.
True, I realize now when you put it like that.
The ship having a SP pool of it's own sounds very gimicky though. All we really wanted were modular (custom) ships :P I can hardly wait for the dev blog to clear this up.
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