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ECM Ships - Looking at better defined roles

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 7 post(s)
Sig Sour	Posted - 2009.03.25 16:55:00 - [631] Edited by: Sig Sour on 25/03/2009 16:56:14 Originally by: CCP Chronotis actually it isn't, we wanted to try it with using 3 hybrids eg 3 250mm rails. The range with spike is about 90km on the setups we have been playing with which is not quite as far as the ECM optimal range (max range 195, optimal 124 or so depending on the setup and skills, (this was a maxed out ECM range setup)) but we think it will be more useful than the ECM cap use bonus. You seem to be confused when looking for a second bonus. MWD bonus would be better... Please look into ECCM and sensor dampeners before you dumb the game down. I am really confused why you are doing this? Is it because a few dozen people with a loud voice are crying about being ganked and there was a Falcon in the fleet? What are your plans with ECCM? You seem to be ignoring it like all the people who complain about the Falcon being over powered.
Kerdrak 3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.25 16:56:00 - [632] Originally by: CCP Chronotis actually it isn't, we wanted to try it with using 3 hybrids eg 3 250mm rails. The range with spike is about 90km on the setups we have been playing with which is not quite as far as the ECM optimal range (max range 195, optimal 124 or so depending on the setup and skills, (this was a maxed out ECM range setup)) but we think it will be more useful than the ECM cap use bonus. 90km is still a bit far compared to other force recons, but it's an improvement. ________________________________________ [img]http://www.atlas-alliance.com/killboard-new/sig.php/4652/alliancerank/signature.jpg[/img
Al Smosher	Posted - 2009.03.25 16:57:00 - [633] Any point in playing caldari anymore ? speed ? no drones ? no shield tanking ? not for pvp dps using missiles / torp ? not anymore ecm ? in a near futur, no also so what left ?
Bronson Hughes ADVANCED Combat and Engineering	Posted - 2009.03.25 16:57:00 - [634] Some thoughts: 1. People complaining about the Falcon being overpowered due to its range forget that currently it can jam very well at those ranges. If things go as CCP is proposing, their jam strength will be getting reduced so they'll still maintain range as their saftey net, but they'll be less effective overall. 2. If the Rook is meant to be a close in ship, why give it a missile range bonus? Every other combat recon gets at least two weapon damage bonuses (assuming that you count neuts as a weapon on a Curse). Swap that range bonus to RoF keeping in mind that it will likely have to lose a launcher hardpoint to compensate for it being the only recon without split weapon bonuses. 3. The only places I see Scorpions commonly used are in remote rep battleship gangs, which means you're likely to be fighting at short ranges. Couple that with the fact that it's the only ship in the game that gets a bonus to the strength of ECM bursts (which are short range by nature), and I'd say it's an ideal short-range ECM ship. (No, I'm not suggesting that you use an ECM burst on an RR BS fit Scorpion) 4. I support these changes in general because afterwards, Caldari Recons will only have two EWar bonuses like pretty much every other Recon Ship in the game. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
Raquel Trotter Trotters Independent Trading	Posted - 2009.03.25 16:57:00 - [635] CCP Chronotis, So how exactly will the falcon be different from now? The falcon will still be able to get into position cloaked at range and jam even 3-5 ships with ECCM fitted. THIS IS NO CHANGE! No other covert-recons can operate at such extreme ranges, which combined with ECM range rigs and implants make them the practically invulnerable. With your update this is a boost to the falcon making them even more powerful. Remove the falcons range bonus please! And give us ECCM rigs and implants.
Morikai Acler Caldari Demon Theory Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.03.25 16:58:00 - [636] To add to my previous post. Am I the only one here that see's the folly of only wanting to engage in sniper fleets at 150+ km range? Lose one ship at that range, and all the other fleet has to do is warp to that wreck and you're pretty well screwed. Especially if they have any good missile boat pilots waiting to warp to you. My god, EVE's being turned into one of those nerd fights where you see two guys at extreme arms length trying to smack at each other while holding their face away. As far as missiles having no place in pvp..... Ah yes they aren't instant dmg.... But they are high dmg and consistent. Gee that also explains why the cerb is one of the high dmg hacs in the game. Not to mention most long range missile boats are more or less ECM proof due to FOF. How many other ships other than the raven can fire out to 220km and still do max dmg? My god people, think outside of the pinewood box
Vajrabhairava Caldari Seppuku Warriors	Posted - 2009.03.25 16:59:00 - [637] Edited by: Vajrabhairava on 25/03/2009 17:00:18 Well, as a Falcon Pilot I admit they were overpowered ... against idiots. But peruse the Scrapheap Board and you find lots of ways to beat a Falcon besides bringing one of your own. ( Which was also just fine, given the surplus of Caldari pilots in the game with nothing much else to fly! ) I just wish CCP could be less drastic with their nerfs - they always seem to be poorly thought out, with a lot of unintended side effects. But most of all, I wish they would quit nerfing all ships to uniformity. * Speed tanks are gone, and with it an entire style of play * ECM will be gone or greatly diminished, and with it an entire aspect of the game I am sure there are examples from before my time to - the NOS nerf, the repeated missile nerfs, etc. The idea seems to be that CCP has only one play style in mind, and any ship that departs from it gets nerfed back into oblivion, so it is unplayable or is just like the others. Apparently we should ALL fly RR Amarr battleships, soon to be the ONLY viable thing. -- But perhaps one more thing will be viable now - snipers rejoice. Now nobody can jam you out of the battle from range - they can only warp in on a friendly cloaker nearby, or counter-snipe.
Mr Ignitious R.E.C.O.N. Dara Cothrom	Posted - 2009.03.25 17:02:00 - [638] Ignitious likes =) Scorp would be pretty sweet then =) You might actually see rooks on roams too =) Do want CCP, Do Want. Originally by: CCP Zulupark WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
Pallidum Treponema Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.03.25 17:06:00 - [639] Originally by: Sertan Deras Why are you guys so dead set and destroying the only good fleet EWar (the Scorpion)? Look, here's a hint: Most people aren't going to use the very expensive, uninsurable, Rook in fleet fights. They just aren't. Too easy to lose in high lag situations where ship agility is basically meaningless. Is your intention to just get rid of EWar in long range fleet engagements? Because that seems to be the case. 140km range is not going to cut it in a fleet fight. That will put the Scoprion closer to the enemy snipers than your friendly snipers will be. What do you think is going to happen to the Scorpion in that situation? I can tell you, it's going to get vaporized. Sorry, the Scorpion changes are just a really bad idea. I am not sure who's pet idea it is, but it's bad. I agree with my goon enemy here. Nerfing the scorp would eliminate the ewar possibility for a lot of players. I'm saying this as a falcon pilot, from an alliance (AAA) that is heavily favoring the falcon and is fighting an alliance (Goons) who are commonly flying scorpions and blackbirds. Removing ewar from the scorpion is a bad idea. The scorp already needs to fly with the rest of the fleet and is often a primary target. It doesn't have the agility to be able to operate solo at longer ranges like the falcon, nor the cloak to be able to position itself at such a range. Thus it is a ship that is fairly easily countered already. If anything, the other races battleships need a boost in terms of EWar. I'd love to see battleships that target paint the primaries, or tracking disrupt them to reduce their firepower. Heck, dampeners could be quite useful in a fleet fight as well, if they had the range - and quite possibly was affected by sensor strength as well.
Morikai Acler Caldari Demon Theory Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.03.25 17:07:00 - [640] Originally by: Mr Ignitious Ignitious likes =) Scorp would be pretty sweet then =) You might actually see rooks on roams too =) Do want CCP, Do Want. makes personal note Make sure Kaark Hardblow flying rook next time we go on a roam in that direction.
Sig Sour	Posted - 2009.03.25 17:08:00 - [641] Originally by: Kerdrak 90km is still a bit far compared to other force recons, but it's an improvement. 94 max dps max skill. However comparing recons and saying they all should be identical is narrow minded. Ships have roles they need to fill that balance out the game. We have come up with a logistics ECCM setup that will be unstoppable with the new ECM strength.
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2009.03.25 17:08:00 - [642] Originally by: Pallidum Treponema I agree with my goon enemy here. Nerfing the scorp would eliminate the ewar possibility for a lot of players. You are only supposed to fly dps ships. Dont you know anything. And yea this is my sig.
Sertan Deras Gallente Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.03.25 17:11:00 - [643] Edited by: Sertan Deras on 25/03/2009 17:11:36 The one thing in this thread I will disagree with is Caldari PvP uselessness. Even if this goes through, Caldari still has arguably the best sniper in the game (the Rokh), and one of the best small gang/solo DPS HAC's in the game (the Cerberus). That said, I do wonder sometimes if CCP hasn't realized yet that large scape PVP happens at extreme ranges, not up close and personal.
luckyccs Gallente Total Mayhem.	Posted - 2009.03.25 17:16:00 - [644] I like the idea, Falcon range & Streng need to be adjusted and should have a counter part. I am a Gallente pure pilot, and the 120-130km max range on the dampers should be slighly adjusted to become the ECM counter part. All race's recons should have a sniper & close range version. Would be nice if Force recons could get some tanks holes slighly closed, you know explosive and EM resist acordly to races...they are just so weak, and most of them cant tank & role same time. GL HF
TZeer BURN EDEN	Posted - 2009.03.25 17:19:00 - [645] Read a few of your replies and I`m not sure what you are saying.... Quote: I ninja replied in my update post in the main feedback thread. It currently gets the same strength bonus as the scorpion will do so have a look at that as well when sisi is updated after 1.02 is out. Quote: the widow will gain a similar ECM strength increase as the scorpion has gotten First quote I read it as it will get the same bonus as the scorp, 20%. The other can be read as the widow will be getting a boost in it`s strength as the scorpion will get. Wich means it will get the same strength as the Rook. 25% per lvl. Which one is it?
Sir Hades Caldari Stimulus	Posted - 2009.03.25 17:20:00 - [646] ZOMG! Here is my post in the huge Falcon nerf thread that not a single soul will read :3 The problem here is not that the Falcon is super overpowered (it is a bit overpowered and I say this as a Falcon pilot), it is that all other EW sucks. If you make other EW an option again, the Falcon problem will sort itself out. The Falcon should be balanced to where it's jamming optimal range is 100KM. If you want to jam further, you go into falloff. Make all the other race's EW (TDs, SDs, TPs) have a similar optimal range with their recons. Also, make the TP DO something. It should hurt to get TPed. Your sig res should be fraking huge. Finally, change the SDAs to work with all EW. The Kitsune needs to have a much better lock range. As it stands, it can jam out to 122KM. In order to LOCK that far you need the following: Max skills, leadership 5 booster, 2 T1 lock range rigs, and a sensor booster II with range script. Something isn't quite right there. The Widow needs a complete overhaul. The fact that it was not even mentioned is proof of just how bad it is. Not even CCP wants to touch it and they gave birth to this abomination of science D: The Scorp needs to stay the way it is. The Scorp should be able to jam out to the ranges the Falcon used to be able to. Why? It is a battleship. It is big, slow, and can not warp cloaked. Those are some massive negatives to it. Also it fits as the other Caldari battleships can get their weapons to fire at those ranges too. It has no place going to the front lines. Caldari ships do not fight at close range if they don't have to.
Quesa Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.03.25 17:22:00 - [647] Originally by: Quesa If we are going to think of Falcons and close range brawlers, then we should take a look at how to increase the abilities of close range modules. I'm thinking of stuff like: -Ditching the overall strength bonus for ECM and swapping it for a Multi-spec bonus. This might allow Falcons to drop their full rack of ECM in favor of a few Multi's + tank/tackle. -Give the Falcon/Rook a signature radius bonus to offset the need for shield extenders. If you want us to fly closer ranges, we need to tank/buffer up a bit. We are already 100% primary, we don't need to take full damage from a Citidel Torpedo. -If you are going to put us close range, and compare us to Pilgrims, we need DPS. We'll never be close to other Force Recon DPS until we are allowed either more high slots, or a sizable drone bay. Since we are Caldari, maybe we could have some decent damage bonuses to either Missiles, Hybrids or even Heavy Assault Missiles. --ROF for missiles or damage bonus for Hybrids. Each recon has the DPS (coupled with their multiple offensive systems) to down a ship of a decent size. Falcon's don't, and even arguably terrible DPS from the Rook. Take a setup like: [Falcon, Theory] Power Diagnostic System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II ECM - Multispectral Jammer II ECM - Multispectral Jammer II Large Shield Extender II Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Guristas Torrent Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Guristas Torrent Assault Missile Covert Ops Cloaking Device II [empty high slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] The Jamming STR of those Multi's under your new STR mod would be about 13.5. The DPS of this setup is still below 100 at max skills. The Range of the Multi's would be near 50km (more in line with your thought process?). The range of the HAM's is a little lacking, currently at about 20km. If we were able to modify the slots so they are like: [Falcon, Theory] Power Diagnostic System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II ECM - Multispectral Jammer II ECM - Multispectral Jammer II Large Shield Extender II Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Guristas Torrent Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Guristas Torrent Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Guristas Torrent Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Guristas Torrent Assault Missile Covert Ops Cloaking Device II [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] The Falcon would gain 1 high slot and convert the 2 turret hard points to missile hard points. We would need a missile speed bonus attached to the Caldari Cruiser bonus instead of the optimal range bonus to ECM. If we were to add a +25% flight speed bonus to HAM's, we'd start nearing 50-60km HAM range, which is comparable to the ECM optimal. Since we doubled the launcher hardpoints, we'd double the DPS putting it at about 200dps with max skills. I'm thinking we could also attach a 5% bonus to missile damage to the Recon Ships skill. One other small change I would suggest, is a slightly more robust capacitor. I'd like to see an increased total capacity and a slightly better recharge rate. This type of change would increase it's survivability many times over, along with giving it a small bite. By requiring the Falcon to come in close, they'll have to chose to become either a paper thin ECM boat within 50km, or a buffer tanked Recon such as the Pilgrim (by limiting their ECM for tank). Not sure if I'm moving in the right direction here.
plastastic	Posted - 2009.03.25 17:23:00 - [648] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Rook: Caldari Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% Bonus to Light & Heavy Missile Velocity per level 10% reduction in ECM Target Jammer capacitor use per Level Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 25% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength per level 5% bonus to heavy and light missile kinetic damage per level Attribute Changes: +25m3 drone bay +25mbit drone bandwidth is it also possible to get this viable to use HAM and to give it more high slots because 3 launchers+ drones wont make this thing do much damage Originally by: CCP Chronotis Falcon: Caldari Cruiser Skill Bonus: 20% Bonus to ECM Target Jammer Optimal Range per level 5% Bonus to Medium Hybrid Optimal Range per level Recon Ships Skill Bonus: 20% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength per level -96% to -100% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU use per level Attribute Changes: +1 turret hardpoint / -1 launcher hardpoint don't mind this brings the falcon in from crazy ranges Originally by: CCP Chronotis Scorpion The scorpion remains unchanged from the original suggestion for now. Whilst this change would make them less usual at long range jamming, they can still jam out to ~140km using their falloff (setup for ECM range) so whilst their role in the long range scenario is reduced, their new short range scenario is much better. id vote for giving the scorp a boost to it ECM opt range/jam strengh so it is the only ECM ship that can get out to sniper ranges with the jam strengh of brawler ECM ships. because it make it viable for fleet fights(like it is now) and give it something over other E-war ships. -give it 20%-25% jam strength(so it has something over the recon ships) -whatever ECM range boost to make this ship keep its current ranges this ship isit broke and don't "fix" it Originally by: CCP Chronotis The Widow Forgot to mention it would be getting an increase in ECM strength bonus same as the scorpion. Will make a seperate post on black ops themselves. be interesting to make this ship a close in E-war ship basically a raven/scorp hybrid and be cool to give this ship a biger dronebay/more launcher slots but it still suffers from all the problems with black ops but that is a different topic
Ol' Delsai Caldari Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.03.25 17:25:00 - [649] You should also have a little entry about the Tengu Will ECM bonus on electronic and offensive subsystems be changed or will they stay the same ? I would vote for a little ECM strength boost given SDA modification
Spindeln Duty.	Posted - 2009.03.25 17:25:00 - [650] Originally by: CCP Chronotis falcon will be the weaker but longer range "sniper" varient NOOOOOOOOOOO! The whole mess with every small to medium sized gang flying tons of falcons is because they lock down so many ships with almost no risk, and no possibility to scout or scan or probe them. They can NEVER be balanced if they can both manoeuvre hidden and safe and still knock out 3-4 BS. If you drop the strength bonus completely then possibly, but otherwise this will not change anything. I mean seriously, to drop ECM strength from 180% to 160% at level 4 is such a small change it will make no difference. And dropping the cap bonus is not what brings it in line with the Arazu or Pilgrim... Maybe with the changed lowslot mod bonus but I don't have to high hopes. The opposite was a very good idea that might have worked, this will change nothing. Those ships needs to be balanced (read nerfed), not improved along with the wishes of those flying them. It's really telling enough that so many PvP outfits today fit a module that is utterly useless unless you meet an ECM ship (yes, the ECCM). It's useful only because everyone is fielding Falcons. And trust me, that's not because the Falcon is the most fun ship to fly.
Dee Carson Caldari Seppuku Warriors	Posted - 2009.03.25 17:26:00 - [651] - With the revised Falcon changes - With the flip of base optimal and falloff ranges - With no change in either SDA, PDA or PDP stats - With fit of 3 SDA + 2 PDP (so max jammer) - With max related skills Yields: Optimal 46% reduction from 227 to 122. Optimal + Falloff 25 % reduction from 267 to 202 No change in jamming strength which remains at 14.4 The results: - No change in the probabilities of a jam. If you were on the wrong end of the jam strength vs sensor strength math before, you still are. Repeat, you still are. - Increased danger related to a missed jam because you are inside engagement range of more OPFOR. Easy Predictions: - More Falcons on the field to cover the missed jams. - Snipers will be the next nerf target, because with engagement ranges > any other ship on the field, the whines will start all over again. Sorry CCP, but these changes won't obtain the result you seem to be after. DC http://deecarson.blogspot.com/
Sertan Deras Gallente Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.03.25 17:28:00 - [652] Just to re-iterate again what someone said a couple of posts back: The Scorpion isn't broken, don't "fix" it. The problem is, and continues to be, the Falcon. Fix that ship, don't destroy the whole idea of EWar.
TZeer BURN EDEN	Posted - 2009.03.25 17:29:00 - [653] Originally by: Raquel Trotter CCP Chronotis, So how exactly will the falcon be different from now? The falcon will still be able to get into position cloaked at range and jam even 3-5 ships with ECCM fitted. THIS IS NO CHANGE! No other covert-recons can operate at such extreme ranges, which combined with ECM range rigs and implants make them the practically invulnerable. With your update this is a boost to the falcon making them even more powerful. Remove the falcons range bonus please! And give us ECCM rigs and implants. LOL, 3-5 ECCM fitted ships. Give me a falcon who can do that now. Anyway. Now it`s optimal with max skills are 162km. With this change you are looking at below 100km optimal. Thats over 60km reduction. When it comes to it jamming strength bonus I`m a little unsure if CCP mixed up, cause the long range rook proposal had 15% bonus to it`s strength. And the falcon has 20%. On top of that they are looking at making SDA giving bonus to optimal instead of strength maybe. So if the falcon gets close to it`s 160km optimal with SDA, it wont go to it`s old 220 cause of the stacking penalty with rigs.
Karlemgne Tides Of War	Posted - 2009.03.25 17:30:00 - [654] Edited by: Karlemgne on 25/03/2009 17:30:22 Quote: Falcon's are over powered, but only against idiots!!1! Give me a **ing break. Falcons are overpowered--period. In order to counter a Falcon, and SINGLE Falcon mind you, a battleship has to carry two ECCMs. This means that a battleship, to avoid being perma jammed, needs to completely nerf its ability to tackle, or god forbid its a shield tank, its tank. In small gang PvP this means that almost everyone has to fit this way. Try tackling a gang on a low-sec gate while being fitted with dual ECCM. You're lucky if you catch a single ship. Of course you could always fit a single ECCM--and get jammed multiple times by a single Falcon during a combat. Then again, if your opponent brings more than one Falcon to the fight, which happens all the time, you'll be perma jammed with your single ECCM. So what's your alternative? Anti-Falcon Falcons. Ships fit specifically to drive Falcons off, which sometimes works, sometimes doesn't. Currently Falcons are nanos all over again. Quote: without the Falcon Caldari sucks for pvp!!!11!1! Bull. The Drake is one of the best solo ships currently in the game. Its also just a *ing good ship for pvp in general. The Rokh is an excellent blaster platform, and one of the best sniper ships in the game. The Raven... do I really* need to explain to you the value and versatility of the Raven? In sum, stop whining that your favorite broken game mechanic is going to be fixed. Having ECM not dominate the ENTIRE game does not make Caldari useless as a race just like nerfing nanos did not make Minmatar useless as a race. I have 0 sympathy. My sig don't fracking work.
GateScout	Posted - 2009.03.25 17:41:00 - [655] Originally by: Karlemgne In order to counter a Falcon, and SINGLE Falcon mind you, a battleship has to carry two ECCMs. This means that a battleship, to avoid being perma jammed... lol. Currently, mids for a falcon: MWD, sensor booster and 5 jammers (more or less). There are 4 races you need to fit for... ECM is racially limited and chance based. You either suck at mathematics, don't understand jamming probability or you only go up against falcon pilots that KNOW what race ship you're flying and only fit 1 racial ECM type. Come back when you have a clue.
Radcjk Caldari Failed Diplomacy	Posted - 2009.03.25 17:42:00 - [656] Edited by: Radcjk on 25/03/2009 17:43:13 Originally by: CCP Chronotis Signal Distortion Amplifiers and the low slots could be used for tanking for example. Seriously ? a 2 to 3 slot tank, lows, on caldari boats ? A 1600 plate isnt a tank, even combined with a DC. Its a buffer that eats agility better served by warping / evading. Please re think this. Also: 3 rails on a Falcon fails. Please consider giving it a drone bay as well, or can it remain the only recon to still not have one after/if the rook gets one ?
Sig Sour	Posted - 2009.03.25 17:43:00 - [657] Originally by: Karlemgne I have 0 sympathy. But Tides of War is a red flashy battleship corp. ECM and battleship gangs bigger than yours are the only thing stopping you from stomping all over everything you run into.
Thorian Baalnorn	Posted - 2009.03.25 17:44:00 - [658] Quote: "Falcons don't have tank" because people don't fit tank on their Falcons. I'm forced to fit tank on my Lachesis and Arazu, same goes for our Rapier/Huginn/Curse pilots. Those ships don't have any more actual tanking ability than the Falcon does. Why should the Caldari ECM boats be the only ones being able to play in "safe mode"? If you would read an earlier post of mine on this thread it states the differences between all the recons. the lach is just a sad ship tis why no one flys it. the rook is a close second. second, you epically fail at shipbuilding 101. Here is why: 1)ewar is a midslot hog. SO IS SHIELD TANKING. see number 2 2) all other recons have their tank slots open so can fit a 1/2 decent tank. 3)The other ewar types work against all targets( except disruptors which still work against 90% of targets) where ecm works occassionally against all targets or if you go racial very good against most targets. see number 4 4) IN ORDER FOR ECM TO BE AS EFFECTIVE AS IT IS ON A FALCON A FALCON MUST DEDICATE HIS ENTIRE SHIP TO ECM whereas on the other ewar types their are severe stacking penalties. so fitting more than 4 ewar mods is not that practical( 2 targets with 2 each) and since stacking penalities apply the ship being ewared with say dampeners having any more than 3 mods on that ship at any one time is a waste. see 5 5) armor tanking a caldari ship is stupid. for 1 unless that pilot happened to cross train to another race he isnt going to have armor tanking skills( though most will have trained) and for 2 their armor is weak and they dont have enough tanking slots to tank anything. see 6 6) ECM is greatly feared in battle. falcon- always primaried. so unless your going to make it tank like an armor tanked BS. its lifespan after decloaking is going to be about 20 seconds. and finally.... 7) stop nerfing ships and nerf people that cant play a game that requires a bit of problem solving. you know those mods that rats occassionally drop called ECCM that you consider junk... guess what they are for? ECM DEFENSE! ...."OH NOES! if i have to fit a module to my ship to protect me against ecm then it will just totally mess up my pwnallmobile!CCP NERF FALCONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Glen Morange	Posted - 2009.03.25 17:46:00 - [659] Originally by: CCP Chronotis ECM Range Generally the ECM optimal range is a little too long with massive optimal ranges possible which would place the ECM specialised ships so far out of the fight to be almost completely safe but suffer no effective hit quality decrease. To bring them closer to the fight we are looking at swapping the base optimal and falloff ranges so at the longer ranges jammers would be operating more in falloff and hence have a lower chance of 'hitting' with their jammers at the extreme ranges. My comment would be that I would not take the easy way out and add more RNG to ECM. People will still whine about "I WAS PERMAJAMMED, NERF ECM!" every time a the ecm pilot is lucky and gets two jams in a row. The problem with a falcon is range, but swapping them so that they are required to be even more RNG dependent isn't the solution (you could have just altered the base sensor strength of ships to the same end). You might alter the bonus for range to bring the falcon into line with sniper ships (~175km optimal or highly effective) at level 4 ECM skills. Forcing ECM into the dead zone (40-150km) or increasing the randomness isn't the solution to range issues. One solution to slightly more general permajam complaints is to remove the amount of RNG, or make the effect of getting jammed less of a pain. A solution that has a constant (with falloff) effect would be preferred, as then you have something that can be easily tuned, whereas a highly debilitating random event like jamming cannot be tuned from the player perspective. One example might be to have a (potentially) random and/or sig radius based chance to unlock, and give them a scan-resolution decreasing effect. For example, a BS locking a frigate would have a higher chance to be unlocked than when locking a BS.
Jas Dor Minmatar	Posted - 2009.03.25 17:50:00 - [660] If you're nerfing ECM can the EOS / info warfare links get some love? Names, Dates, Times, Engagements, Losses, Op-Tempo or STFU!

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ECM Range