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FW lag investigation follow up please, CCP

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 13 post(s)
Aurora Nyx Caldari Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2009.05.02 13:13:00 - [1] Having found that i can't access the archived news story that CCP put on Eve-O main page (a week or so before Apoc launch), and discovering that quite a few posts on the subject have also vapourised, i would like to ask for an official follow-up on the FW investigation, as it appears that yet again we've been forgotten.
Monkey Saturday Fear Inc	Posted - 2009.05.02 13:16:00 - [2] Is faction warfare still alive and kicking? Huh. I think ccp are quietly forgetting about that whole little ordeal. --------
Graelyn Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2009.05.02 14:24:00 - [3] On the Amarr/Matari side, most of us have noticed a huge improvement. Not having the same luck on the Fed front I assume?
Ankhesentapemkah Gallente Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2009.05.02 14:40:00 - [4] It's somewhat better as far as I know, but the issue is far from resolved as it still randomly desynchs people and such... I tried to raise this through the CSM but the rest of them voted the issue down. I'm sure that if you vote for Erik Finnegan he'll raise it again, as he covers the FW side of the game too. ---
TraininVain	Posted - 2009.05.02 14:44:00 - [5] On thursday we had significant lag and desync.
Aurora Nyx Caldari Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2009.05.02 14:55:00 - [6] Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah It's somewhat better as far as I know, but the issue is far from resolved as it still randomly desynchs people and such... I tried to raise this through the CSM but the rest of them voted the issue down. I'm sure that if you vote for Erik Finnegan he'll raise it again, as he covers the FW side of the game too. The CSM is a joke. We, myself included, voted for you last time so that FW would have a voice. The issue the overwhelming majority of FW pilots wanted sorting was the lag, and it didn't even make it onto a CCP list from the CSM, therefor advertising for FW votes is in pretty bad taste imo. The lag is as bad as it ever was, there has been no noticeable imporvements in the Caldari/Gallente pipeline. CCP please give us a follow-up.
Another Forum'Alt Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.05.02 14:56:00 - [7] is FW still going? BECAUSE OF FALCON. Guide to forum posting
Sapporo Ichiban	Posted - 2009.05.02 15:27:00 - [8] yes and sometime this year would be nice ...
Aurora Nyx Caldari Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2009.05.03 22:54:00 - [9] Bump for a response from CCP
Sapporo Ichiban	Posted - 2009.05.04 08:53:00 - [10] bump

Dirk Magnum Royal Hiigaran Navy SCUM.	Posted - 2009.05.04 08:57:00 - [11] Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 04/05/2009 08:57:24 All the FW systems I hang out around in Verge seem pretty smooth. Even when there's gangs in the plexes the systems run pretty nicely. But a few months ago it could get pretty gnarly at times.
Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.05.04 09:07:00 - [12] Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 04/05/2009 09:07:38 The observed lag & desyncs only appear to happen when you're on the same grid as the problem. People can idly fly by in the same system and notice nothing, yet others are desyncing at a nearby gate battle. It's getting pretty silly. The moment either Amarr or Matari commits more than about 30 people to a fleet, the resulting battle is so fraught with server problems that it's pot luck what happens. There was a battle on Saturday night in Kamela with about 150 participants - I think more than half had to log off and log back on to clear the desyncs. Just suddenly started 'Entering space' over and over and over in the middle of the fight... Other times, you get such marvelous lag, observed by numerous players at the same time, that ships that should have appeared out of a gate seconds ago only became visible and selectable by the time they're warping off. Other people are saying 'well I could see them, it was sat aligning for a good few seconds'. Everyone else is busy wondering what their client is doing. Fleet fights in 0.0 of thousands of participants feasible? So why can't a simple 100-200 person fleet engagement work in low-sec? Lag is part of the MMO experience - people can cope with that much - but these wild claims of huge fights possible leave a sour taste when something the tenth of that just doesn't work at all. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
YORK CRAFT Caldari KRAFTWERK	Posted - 2009.05.04 09:54:00 - [13] Yes Aurora, agree. - I demand clarification from CCP ! Problem is NOT solved, and communication of status is minimum. It seems, the issue got lost in a black CCP hole. Maybe by intend, after immense Playerbase efforts and ship losses in fleetfights to submit tons of Logs CCP was once asking for. (btw, still missing you on our [State]side, Aurora)
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.05.04 10:10:00 - [14] FW blobfests (well over 100 in local) not performing well in the worst nodes available to TQ (which are given to low sec where FW is located) I for one am not very shocked. Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup. Cry some more.
ArmyOfMe The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.05.04 11:42:00 - [15] ive noticed a slight improvment when figting FW fleets in low sec, but still not even remotly close to being good enough. still ppl getting session changes through entire fights etc. the low sec nodes are plain and simply a freaking joke. i know ppl had massive desyncs after a 15 vs 15 fight the other day
Veebora Caldari	Posted - 2009.05.04 11:57:00 - [16] Unhappily we are still getting "freezing" lag in 60+ ships fight.
Sapporo Ichiban	Posted - 2009.05.04 12:09:00 - [17] Originally by: Vaal Erit FW blobfests (well over 100 in local) not performing well in the worst nodes available to TQ (which are given to low sec where FW is located) I for one am not very shocked. it would have to be a pretty crappy node for it to lag out on a 20 vs 20 with over a 100 in local you might aswell log off . entering space for 20 mins and then watching your ship go from 100% to pod in one second
5higsy Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2009.05.04 12:20:00 - [18] CCP should give a few named fw systems permanent nodes for themselves. Then the fw blobs would fight in those systems specifically. Not exactly a fix but a few systems that worked would be nice
EliteSlave Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.05.04 12:55:00 - [19] till you realise that CSM means absolutely nothing, only then will you be at peace with yourself. Ask yourself this question, Exactly what has come about thanks to the CSM?
Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.05.04 13:32:00 - [20] Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 04/05/2009 13:32:48 Originally by: Vaal Erit I for one am not very shocked. It's not a matter of being shocked. It's a matter of a desire for CCP to do something about it. Factional Warfare has been incredibly successful in getting players who have never PvPed before into doing it, and yet it's consigned to the rubbish heap. By comparison, 0.0 mechanics are in dire need of an overhaul and are entirely unattractive to many as shown by the number of 'refugees from POS warfare' that we get in low-sec, and yet they continue to have all the hardware heaped on them. Do I begrudge them good performance? No. Do I feel that we in low-sec should at least receive some capability and attention? Hell yes. Can nobody realise that the impression that Factional Warfare gives of PvP is critical to whether people continue to pursue it both there and elsewhere? Or do we really want all those new players to be put off and go back into high-sec, never to return? ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects

Winterblink Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.05.04 13:35:00 - [21] Originally by: EliteSlave till you realise that CSM means absolutely nothing, only then will you be at peace with yourself. Ask yourself this question, Exactly what has come about thanks to the CSM? More than you probably realize. :) Also it's hard to gauge a particular CSM's contributions since a) the results might not show themselves in game for a long time after, and b) CCP doesn't directly attribute specific updates to the game back to the CSM in any meaningful way. I mean there's plenty of wasted time and effort there, but that's the same with any elected body. warp drive active \| nature vraie
Sapporo Ichiban	Posted - 2009.05.04 14:29:00 - [22] Originally by: Winterblink Myself, whether it's 0.0 or FW, I'd rather see CCP take their time and make the right changes to things rather than rush it because someone on a forum told them to. providing stable server nodes to several thousands of players is a no-brainer for me . This lag isn't a recent problem either , so this isnt called " taking their time " anymore , it's now called " ignoring the problem "
5pinDizzy	Posted - 2009.05.04 15:27:00 - [23] Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 04/05/2009 15:29:25 I can't count the amount of times I lost a ship to desync when playing faction war. But it's loads, probably every 4/5 losses. If I read Erik Finnegan say himself somewhere that he'll raise the issue then I'll vote for him. As you say it's never really lag it's always desyncing, if you sit and stare at the screen you'll be there all night as it'll never fix itself and you'll probably die server side as you have no control so it's always best to keep logging off and back in again where you'll gain control again for what should be at least ten seconds or so. if you disagree with me then you should probably post a response and stop reading my signature.
Nareg Maxence Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.04 16:05:00 - [24] CCP asked for logserver outputs from people experiencing desyncs. I seem to remember a few months back it was stated by a dev in the game development forum, that too few logs were provided and from those that came in, they weren't able to pinpoint any particular issues, other than 'desync? meh..'.
OJH	Posted - 2009.05.04 16:08:00 - [25] Gall/Caldari militia had several "Create lag on purpose" events after they asked.
Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.05.04 16:36:00 - [26] This is not a problem with load on the node This is not a problem with load on the node This is not a problem with load on the node (yes, this bears repeating) A 50 vs. 50 pirate fleet battle is no problem in these systems, only a 50 vs. 50 FW fleet fight is a problem. Obviously, there is a bug in the FW code. The only major area where FW code concerning fights differs from non-FW fights is how standing and sec loss is determined. I have also noticed that if I do not shoot anything, I never have much problems with lag, but as soon as I shoot or destroy a hostile, the desync-type lag might hit me. Not always, but odds increase as numbers increase. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
5pinDizzy	Posted - 2009.05.04 16:39:00 - [27] So how many logserver desyncs would be enough exactly? If they can't find a problem with 100, what difference is 1000 going to make? if you disagree with me then you should probably post a response and stop reading my signature.
Nareg Maxence Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.04 16:41:00 - [28] Originally by: OJH Gall/Caldari militia had several "Create lag on purpose" events after they asked. That's fine, but if the problem is on the client and not on the server, all you get is 'our logs show nothing'. Players need to file bug reports with logserver outputs.
Nareg Maxence Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.04 16:44:00 - [29] Originally by: 5pinDizzy So how many logserver desyncs would be enough exactly? If they can't find a problem with 100, what difference is 1000 going to make? It may make a big difference. If there is some statistical variance in how this bug manifests itself, then 100 reports may be way to small a sample to get an idea as to what is going on.
Sapporo Ichiban	Posted - 2009.05.04 18:11:00 - [30] Originally by: Merdaneth This is not a problem with load on the node This is not a problem with load on the node This is not a problem with load on the node (yes, this bears repeating) A 50 vs. 50 pirate fleet battle is no problem in these systems, only a 50 vs. 50 FW fleet fight is a problem. Obviously, there is a bug in the FW code. The only major area where FW code concerning fights differs from non-FW fights is how standing and sec loss is determined. I have also noticed that if I do not shoot anything, I never have much problems with lag, but as soon as I shoot or destroy a hostile, the desync-type lag might hit me. Not always, but odds increase as numbers increase. FW vs. pirates causes the same amount of lag

Becq Starforged Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.05.04 18:24:00 - [31] Originally by: Sapporo Ichiban Originally by: Merdaneth This is not a problem with load on the node This is not a problem with load on the node This is not a problem with load on the node (yes, this bears repeating) A 50 vs. 50 pirate fleet battle is no problem in these systems, only a 50 vs. 50 FW fleet fight is a problem. Obviously, there is a bug in the FW code. The only major area where FW code concerning fights differs from non-FW fights is how standing and sec loss is determined. I have also noticed that if I do not shoot anything, I never have much problems with lag, but as soon as I shoot or destroy a hostile, the desync-type lag might hit me. Not always, but odds increase as numbers increase. FW vs. pirates causes the same amount of lag If the problem involves FW code (for example, involving a check for standings loss for each weapons activation or some such) then it might only matter how many FW pilots were involved, not who they were fighting. For example, 25 militia vs 25 milita might be similar lag-wise to 50 militia vs 1+ non-militia, as in either case there are 50 ships generating the checks that cause the lag. (Note that I am not involved in militia, so I have only second-hand information.) -- Becq Starforged The Flame of Freedom Burns On!
Nareg Maxence Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.04 18:41:00 - [32] In this propaganda video by Pandemic Legion, at one point he notes that he has the same target locked four times, and has the entering space loop, which people have described in FW. If this is the same issue FW people are seeing, that means it isn't a FW-specific issue.
Erik Finnegan Gallente Polytechnique Gallenteenne	Posted - 2009.05.04 21:01:00 - [33] Originally by: EliteSlave till you realise that CSM means absolutely nothing, only then will you be at peace with yourself. Ask yourself this question, Exactly what has come about thanks to the CSM? EliteSlave, you are free to think that, but Ankhesentapemkah attempted raising the FW lag issue, however it was voted down by the other council members. Fortunately, despite the lack of interest from most CSM members towards FW, there have been quite a few FW-related issues that did actually pass and are still under CCP consideration. Originally by: 5pinDizzy I can't count the amount of times I lost a ship to desync when playing faction war. But it's loads, probably every 4/5 losses. If I read Erik Finnegan say himself somewhere that he'll raise the issue then I'll vote for him. As you say it's never really lag it's always desyncing, if you sit and stare at the screen you'll be there all night as it'll never fix itself and you'll probably die server side as you have no control so it's always best to keep logging off and back in again where you'll gain control again for what should be at least ten seconds or so. I am sorry to hear the issue is troubling you so much. You have my promise that I will raise this issue again, and if it gets voted down again, I will personally talk to someone in the office when I am in Iceland if it is still not fixed. See, I might not be a PvP expert, but I want to listen to your observations. One of the colleagues in my company left to fight in FW, and Eva has played FW as well. I, personally, want to have FW work, because I see in it the door for a lot more role play and backstory involvement of players. While FW might not be as big as 0.0 and thus not as high on CCP's priority list, I do want to see it developed further, as the state it is in now is unsatisfactory.
VicturusTeSaluto Metafarmers	Posted - 2009.05.04 21:29:00 - [34] FW lag is NOT a complicated issue, Aurora. Let me explain it to you. Low sec nodes already have a decent amount of stress on them because they usually are shared with high sec. Not only that, but there is plenty of macro mission running, regular mission running, pew pew, industry whatever going on in low sec. Add a fleet battle on top of that and BAM, node is very unhappy. Low sec nodes just don't have much flexibility. The only good solution for the FW lag would be make the wars only valid in a special region for all the FW noobs to enjoy. They could put plenty of processing power on the nodes and it would help a lot. Prior to FW, any battle in low sec with more than 30 or so involved was asking for horrible lag. Our great fleet battle in Amamake about 2 years ago had maybe 80-100 people involved at the laggiest point and most of us couldn't get the game to even respond or work for 20-30 minutes. Out in 0.0 a fleet battle would need to be a lot larger to generate lag problems because the nodes involved usually have a low load in comparison to high/low sec. Other than moving FW, removing it would be the only option to solve the lag. FW has been really bad for low sec in so many ways. Lag is one of the most pronounced problems, but it has also driven out most everyone besides fw noobs(which is not a pejorative of any manner- ccp themselves described fw as being for "noobs looking to get their feet wet"). There really isn't much to do in low sec anymore if you want nothing to do with the fw types. No real targets(sorry, ****fit frigs/cruisers are not ever interesting or profitable targets).
Alfred Spangler NoD Imperium	Posted - 2009.05.04 22:41:00 - [35] Edited by: Alfred Spangler on 04/05/2009 22:41:31 Originally by: Astria Tiphareth Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 04/05/2009 09:07:38 The observed lag & desyncs only appear to happen when you're on the same grid as the problem. People can idly fly by in the same system and notice nothing, yet others are desyncing at a nearby gate battle. It's getting pretty silly. The moment either Amarr or Matari commits more than about 30 people to a fleet, the resulting battle is so fraught with server problems that it's pot luck what happens. There was a battle on Saturday night in Kamela with about 150 participants - I think more than half had to log off and log back on to clear the desyncs. Just suddenly started 'Entering space' over and over and over in the middle of the fight... Other times, you get such marvelous lag, observed by numerous players at the same time, that ships that should have appeared out of a gate seconds ago only became visible and selectable by the time they're warping off. Other people are saying 'well I could see them, it was sat aligning for a good few seconds'. Everyone else is busy wondering what their client is doing. Fleet fights in 0.0 of thousands of participants feasible? So why can't a simple 100-200 person fleet engagement work in low-sec? Lag is part of the MMO experience - people can cope with that much - but these wild claims of huge fights possible leave a sour taste when something the tenth of that just doesn't work at all. This pretty much sums it up. Only thing to add from me: Lag is ok for huge engagements and can be accounted for. The server not responding at all for 5+ minutes is not lag anymore. It's complete halt of operation. Regards, A.S.
TraininVain	Posted - 2009.05.04 23:05:00 - [36] I find "terrible lowsec servers" just as plausible as "specific extra server load for FW players" tbh. It'd be nice to have some word on this.
Aurora Nyx Caldari Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2009.05.05 08:40:00 - [37] Daily bump - still waiting for CCP to tell us something.
Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.05.05 09:26:00 - [38] Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto FW lag is NOT a complicated issue, Aurora. Let me explain it to you. Low sec nodes already have a decent amount of stress on them because they usually are shared with high sec. Not only that, but there is plenty of macro mission running, regular mission running, pew pew, industry whatever going on in low sec. Add a fleet battle on top of that and BAM, node is very unhappy. Low sec nodes just don't have much flexibility. This is completely untrue. I warped into and flown amidst FW fleet battles without any lag and near perfect responsiveness on my Inty, while most others in the battle were lagged. This is not just a node stress issue I can fight a small battle at one gate in the same system while there is a super-laggy battle going on in the same system at another gate. If this was just a node problem, CCP would have identified it long ago. It's an interaction. With high load the server apparently handles some requests (my theory is standings/sec/aggression adjustments) in the wrong order and then bam! Desync and lag, but only if you're involved in that particular battle. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Shadyan Caldari Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2009.05.05 09:49:00 - [39] I think that the biggest issue here is that CCP has promoted a new feature in game, that they are not interested in, a satisfactory manner, supporting so that the paying members that are using this feature have a proper gaming experience. This is broken bigstyle in so many ways. I think that CCP in the way they behave concerning FW, are acknowleging that FW doesn't work, and they just wanna silence it to death. Slowly it will die out, and get a minimum of attention which the servers are geared to handle, and then they are happy. This could have been good, but it just wasn't. There is so much potential in this portale to 0.0 they think they have created, that it could actually become a huge endgame for the people who wants to roleplay, which is hard in EVE (IMO), but they just havn't got the ressources/visions to take it to the next level. That is actually all ok, but they have to say it, so people can reconsider their ingame priorties, and not just bragg about how many people they have online peak hours.
Sapporo Ichiban	Posted - 2009.05.05 11:32:00 - [40] why doesn't it work ? Personally , I like everything about it , except the lag of course . I came from 0.0 and never looked back , I think it's a great alternative for people who don't like the pvp overthere and don't want to go pirate . without just removing it from the game , it's gonna take a really long time to die out so they might aswell fix it

Usha Majere	Posted - 2009.05.05 12:19:00 - [41] Edited by: Usha Majere on 05/05/2009 12:19:22 Yesterday evenings lag fest I was cloaked up on grid and I was dysync-ed without decloaking and even locking anyone up. If CCP really want FW to vanish why are they telling new players with the boxed game to join FW within 10mins of starting their new toon using the certificate their toons are given on birth, instead of having to get +0.5 faction standing? Do they really think that getting new player to join FW, get fleeted up and have this sort of lag is really going to make them want to pay the sub after the free game time ends? No didn't think so! I've been in FW from the start where we used to get 100+ vs 100+ battles and I gotta say that the desync/lag is far worst now with 50 vs 50 battles than it was back then. http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=DE&hl=de&v=A5Jaqz1JAZo (Cassius Rex, us old timers still remember you and love you!)
TraininVain	Posted - 2009.05.05 12:29:00 - [42] Originally by: Usha Majere Edited by: Usha Majere on 05/05/2009 12:19:22 Yesterday evenings lag fest I was cloaked up on grid and I was dysync-ed without decloaking and even locking anyone up. If CCP really want FW to vanish why are they telling new players with the boxed game to join FW within 10mins of starting their new toon using the certificate their toons are given on birth, instead of having to get +0.5 faction standing? Do they really think that getting new player to join FW, get fleeted up and have this sort of lag is really going to make them want to pay the sub after the free game time ends? No didn't think so! I've been in FW from the start where we used to get 100+ vs 100+ battles and I gotta say that the desync/lag is far worst now with 50 vs 50 battles than it was back then. http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=DE&hl=de&v=A5Jaqz1JAZo (Cassius Rex, us old timers still remember you and love you!) What he said ^^^
Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.05.05 20:53:00 - [43] Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 05/05/2009 20:53:27 Originally by: Winterblink I wouldn't say it's been consigned to the rubbish heap, as you say. If you've been around EVE long enough you'll know that big changes to larger systems don't happen overnight, and frequently only after it's sat for a long enough time live on Tranquility. That doesn't mean CCP is ignoring it currently, or doesn't have any plans in the works for it. 0.0 gets a lot of attention because lets face it -- that's one of the major "endgames" for EVE. If that's not working in a timely fashion you lose a huge chunk of your long term player base. Other players might not give a ***, but it's that area of the game that faction warfare is designed in part to be a gateway drug for and a major driving factor in the game's overall economy. The mechanics of 0.0 warfare aren't perfect, but no amount of soapboxing by the community over the years has produced any intelligent design overhauls. Myself, whether it's 0.0 or FW, I'd rather see CCP take their time and make the right changes to things rather than rush it because someone on a forum told them to. Thanks a bunch for the talking down to . As it happens, I'm completely aware of this, as I have been around EVE a while, and software design far longer. However, the silence on FW has been quite deafening. We were asked for input into lag information, and have heard nothing. A simple 'we're still looking into it, don't worry' wouldn't hurt. It's difficult to be helpful and assist with investigations with no input as to what to look for. What I was attempting to illustrate, albeit with a certain level of vexation, is that this issue continues to make life very awkward for those of us in FW. I'd not begrudge equivalent frustration expressed by 0.0 players in face of desyncs in fleet lag either. As far as my understanding goes, FW has come up quite a few times both with CSM and other CCP meetings e.g. fanfest, with a distinct lack of progress. It is that that concerns me. I don't believe I asked for instant results. Kindly do not associate me with the instant gratification crowd. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties...* Environmental Effects
Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.05.05 21:09:00 - [44] Originally by: Usha Majere I've been in FW from the start where we used to get 100+ vs 100+ battles and I gotta say that the desync/lag is far worst now with 50 vs 50 battles than it was back then. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5Jaqz1JAZo (Cassius Rex, us old timers still remember you and love you!) To get back to being constructive, I would agree. 50+ battles were almost standard back when FW first began. This is another reason I lean towards Merdaneth's take on it being a coding problem. Unless some dramatic re-assignment of hardware has occurred, recent code changes would appear to have made the problem worse. As a dev myself, I empathise with the difficulty of finding which code changes. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.05.05 23:34:00 - [45] wow no blue bars on this thread yet huh ... that is a shame where is wrangler when you need him and his indy whip if you buy eve in a box from my game store i will give you isk (GAME , parkgate rotherham)
Lady Lothrein Minmatar Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2009.05.06 08:38:00 - [46] Daily bumb until CCP answers or close the topic (which also is an answer)
Icy Yew	Posted - 2009.05.06 10:56:00 - [47] I can't believe you guys can't get an answer out of CCP on this. Poor show from the devs, poor show.
Aurora Nyx Caldari Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2009.05.06 13:58:00 - [48] This is my daily bump, still waiting for a reply.
Graelyn Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2009.05.06 14:22:00 - [49] Don't hold your breath. CCP would probably love to forget FW exists.
Threv Echandari Caldari K Directorate	Posted - 2009.05.06 15:03:00 - [50] I guess this is one of those times that if you ask for a Dev response you won't get it (candyman, candyman, candyman). CCP often acts on the --If you have nothing to report don't say anything at all.- Which is sad because all many of us would like to hear is that "Hey we have not figured it out yet but we haven't forgotten about you" instead they have gone off and Nerfed Stealth Bombers and and such like. (Sore? Who me?) As for the CSM shame on them for voting down bringing up FW lag issues. I know who won't be voting in for a second term. (Count me in the 0.0 refugee crowd..been there done that yaaaawn. I much prefer the action and freedom in FW, 0.0 just is not the endgame for me. (Unless I get rid of my wife kids and job...which is not going to happen) ---------------------------------------- Happiness is a Wet Pod

Garramon Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.05.06 16:20:00 - [51] I participated in my first FW "fleet" battle the other day (about 25 vs 30). Things were fine, there were no issues for the first 2 minutes, as I was re-targeting people after being jammed by ECM drones. A bit later into the fight I hear "bwoom" the sound you receive when you get a mail. What an odd time for that. About 3 minutes later I appear in the cloning facility. Turns out I had gotten podded, without my screen ever even showing me being targeted by anyone. After participating in some 200 v 200 battles MANY years ago and only having a bit of module lag, this was highly disappointing. Needless to say I did not enjoy having my fate completely removed from my control.
Serpens Sol Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.05.06 17:15:00 - [52] As a new player the FW lag issue does not leave a good impression. Activity on the Minmatar/Amarr front has really picked up over the past week, which was exciting, until I found myself involved in at least one lagged out fleet battle per day. In fact I was about to cancel my subscription until I found out that it is FW specific and that it was not always this way. That the lag issue is a problem that may be fixed gives me enough incentive to stick around a while longer and give CCP a chance. Some confirmation from CCP on this would be nice though. Certainly there is a lot more to EvE than FW, but for a casual player like myself FW is perfect balance of instant PvP gratification and multi-player interaction. I really do not see myself doing much else in EvE for a while, so it is really important to me as a subscriber that they look into improving this area of the game.
Sun Clausewitz	Posted - 2009.05.06 17:27:00 - [53] Maybe we have to get this over 9000 before they reply ///my vote is for sale, he who sends the most iskies gets it\\\

CCP Wrangler	Posted - 2009.05.06 17:53:00 - [54] We're looking into this situation and we'll update you as soon as we can. Wrangler Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us If it's stupid but works, it isn't stupid.

ArmyOfMe The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.05.06 18:04:00 - [55] Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're looking into this situation and we'll update you as soon as we can. omg, he lives. some updates on this would be really nice though, cause atm it makes pvp in low sec a living hell
kayentelva Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.05.06 18:09:00 - [56] bump needs to be given some dev lovin' please
Aurora Nyx Caldari Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2009.05.07 06:44:00 - [57] Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're looking into this situation and we'll update you as soon as we can. Thanks for the reply, but i think we need more than a dismisive "we're on it". It's been months since we first complained, and about 6 weeks since the devs front page news story of how everything was going to be OK. This is a valid complaint that affects upto 1000 players currently enrolled in FW. Please can we have more information.
Dahr Ling	Posted - 2009.05.07 10:16:00 - [58] Adding my bump in support.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.05.07 10:27:00 - [59] Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're looking into this situation and we'll update you as soon as we can. Maybe some instruction on what kind of informations would be more useful to you will help this issue. I think most of the participants to FW will be glad to run logserver and do a bug report if that could help resolving the issue faster. Almost certainly the FW issue can't be easily reproduced on the test server (barring a special FW event there).
YORK CRAFT Caldari KRAFTWERK	Posted - 2009.05.07 11:16:00 - [60] Originally by: Venkul Mul Maybe some instruction on what kind of informations would be more useful to you will help this issue. I think most of the participants to FW will be glad to run logserver and do a bug report if that could help resolving the issue faster. Almost certainly the FW issue can't be easily reproduced on the test server (barring a special FW event there). That was all already done in the past. As I said, tons of serverlogs were submited by CCP request, even on special, issue dedicated, FW battle-events with GM partizipation on tranquility.

Ulin Majere Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2009.05.07 11:59:00 - [61] Caldari State * 5,157 pilots enrolled Gallente Federation * 3,076 pilots enrolled Minmatar Republic * 2,908 pilots enrolled Amarr Empire * 2,579 pilots enrolled And they are ALL wanting an answer! What would we have to do to really get one? Everyone make a noob FW toon, fly to jita and just keep a noob ship battle outside 4-4 for a week while also targeting neuts so they are pulled into the massive desync as awell? (yes I know the Navy would get involved but you would have a few second before they blow you up and it's only a noob ship, plenty more once you dock up heh.)
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.05.07 12:07:00 - [62] Quote: I can't count the amount of times I lost a ship to desync when playing faction war. But it's loads, probably every 4/5 losses And the sad part, if you petition it is that they you that "logs say nothing went wrong" and close it. Before Apocrypha I'd get massive grid lag, desyncs and so on with as small as 30 v 30 fights (despite the 75 FPS). After, the issues are a bit less intrusive but in exchange the voice chat dies so hard for 30% of the fleet all the time that we had to call it quits and use Teamspeak even in fleets. The fun part is that in our roaming 0.0 gangs I get exactly Z E R O lag and desyncs, as I return in low sec I am greeted with a ****ed "Traffic advisory". Hell, yeah, traffic advisory with 15 people in local, 14 of which is us just passing thru that system to go elsewhere. How can it be POSSIBLE that 15 people cause traffic advisory? Do FW low sec servers still use i80386 SX CPUs and 16 bit MS Access "database"? Is this just players crappy computers, when you get a public traffic advisory just by travelling thru a system? Quote:** CCP asked for logserver outputs from people experiencing desyncs. I seem to remember a few months back it was stated by a dev in the game development forum, that too few logs were provided and from those that came in, they weren't able to pinpoint any particular issues, other than 'desync? meh..'. The logserver has also a neat attitude at crashing itself during the lag. It helps so much to keep a resource hog perma running till it's the time for it to serve a purpose and then it dies doing it...
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2009.05.07 12:30:00 - [63] Originally by: Ulin Majere Caldari State * 5,157 pilots enrolled Gallente Federation * 3,076 pilots enrolled Minmatar Republic * 2,908 pilots enrolled Amarr Empire * 2,579 pilots enrolled And they are ALL wanting an answer! Yes but they are not imporant. Class B or C players, wannabe-pvp-carebears, that are not worth CCP's attention and time. EVE is about 0.0 alliances, the rest is periphery.
Usha Majere	Posted - 2009.05.07 12:36:00 - [64] Edited by: Usha Majere on 07/05/2009 12:37:23 Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Originally by: Ulin Majere Caldari State * 5,157 pilots enrolled Gallente Federation * 3,076 pilots enrolled Minmatar Republic * 2,908 pilots enrolled Amarr Empire * 2,579 pilots enrolled And they are ALL wanting an answer! Yes but they are not imporant. Class B or C players, wannabe-pvp-carebears, that are not worth CCP's attention and time. EVE is about 0.0 alliances, the rest is periphery. Says someone not in a 0.0 alliance. Or can't post with their main
Slave 2739FKZ	Posted - 2009.05.07 12:44:00 - [65] You know what "irony" means?
Threv Echandari Caldari K Directorate	Posted - 2009.05.07 14:36:00 - [66] Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're looking into this situation and we'll update you as soon as we can. OK egg on my face...I guess saying Candyman 3 times did it.. I also retract my Stealth Bomber Comment (based on others reports I'm just sore at losing cruise missiles ) ---------------------------------------- Happiness is a Wet Pod
Lee Dalton THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2009.05.07 15:43:00 - [67] Bump. *** You're only as good as your last fight.
Aurora Nyx Caldari Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2009.05.08 07:21:00 - [68] Daily bump for more info from the devs.
Usha Majere Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2009.05.08 09:39:00 - [69] Originally by: Aurora Nyx Daily BURP! for more info from the devs. Fixed it for you.
Naradius DEATHFUNK Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.08 10:49:00 - [70] Originally by: Usha Majere ...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5Jaqz1JAZo (Cassius Rex, us old timers still remember you and love you!) I can confirm that Cass is still gracing Eve and it's pilots with his deep dulcet tones and fending off admirers (mostly male ones, come to think of it )... Back to topic...generally FW needs some more love - this is obvious. For those of us that were press ganged into MicroFunks by Funk, we probably have followed the path that was intended by CCP and grown and moved from FW into some pretty intense 0.0 warfare...not to mention, us driving Funk to drink. This still doesn't take away from the inherent problems FW still has for those that don't want to follow that path: 1. The present lag issues - I can't ever remember bad lag in FW when it first started, and there were more members then. 2. Very few, if any goals i.e. no consequence of losing or gaining sov. 3. Isk sink - a system to pay militia members needs to be implemented. By definition Militias get paid...the isk could be generated by setting a tax rate in NPC corps to pay Militia during times of war.

Solbright Advanced Security And Asset Protection	Posted - 2009.05.08 11:31:00 - [71] Sounds like very little of what is being reported here is lag. Of the very few descriptions there is talk of displays freezing and log servers crashing. These are both client side bugs and nothing to do with lag at all. ----- The Eve Client - A Love Story - The single biggest fix CCP ever did to Eve. Keep it up!
ArmyOfMe The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.05.08 21:23:00 - [72] well we just had two fleets of about about 20 each jump into each other in low sec, (no fw, just outlaws on both sides). started out great, without any lag at all. 2min into the fight my mods all of a sudden refuses to activate and i cant target anything anymore. a few min later i start getting entering system over and over again, so its not just for fw this lags happen
crockett EXE Minmatar Mutineers	Posted - 2009.05.08 21:33:00 - [73] Originally by: Astria Tiphareth Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 04/05/2009 09:07:38 The observed lag & desyncs only appear to happen when you're on the same grid as the problem. People can idly fly by in the same system and notice nothing, yet others are desyncing at a nearby gate battle. It's getting pretty silly. The moment either Amarr or Matari commits more than about 30 people to a fleet, the resulting battle is so fraught with server problems that it's pot luck what happens. There was a battle on Saturday night in Kamela with about 150 participants - I think more than half had to log off and log back on to clear the desyncs. Just suddenly started 'Entering space' over and over and over in the middle of the fight... Other times, you get such marvelous lag, observed by numerous players at the same time, that ships that should have appeared out of a gate seconds ago only became visible and selectable by the time they're warping off. Other people are saying 'well I could see them, it was sat aligning for a good few seconds'. Everyone else is busy wondering what their client is doing. Fleet fights in 0.0 of thousands of participants feasible? So why can't a simple 100-200 person fleet engagement work in low-sec? Lag is part of the MMO experience - people can cope with that much - but these wild claims of huge fights possible leave a sour taste when something the tenth of that just doesn't work at all. I was in these fights on Sat and unfortunately I don't think I'll take part in them again unless the lag/desync issues are fixed. I had guys targeted still whom had been killed 30 seconds before hand. Also I would tell my drones to return to drone bay and they would still show in space a min later. Not to mention the constant "entering space" deal that wouldn't stop with out logging off. This was with "maybe" 150 people in the fight and the lag/desync was unplayable. I have no clue how they can do these big battles out in 0.0 space if we have these problems in low sec with just 100 or so. Large gang fights, I don't have much problem with.. I've been in 30 man fleets and fought other fleets of close to the same size with very little issues., but I do have to dumb down my game graphics to get no frame rate lag.
Weight What	Posted - 2009.05.08 23:20:00 - [74] Originally by: Magic Dragonrider Tao Ball Two armies face each other on the field. A light snow falls. Make all possible haste. ----------------------------------------------- Annonymous, trading as "Weight What".
Captain Tavius Picon Fleet New Eden Research	Posted - 2009.05.09 00:14:00 - [75] Originally by: Weight What Originally by: Magic Dragonrider Tao Ball Two armies face each other on the field. A light snow falls. Make all possible haste. There you are! Flames inbound?
Aurora Nyx Caldari Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2009.05.09 10:48:00 - [76] Daily bump, still waiting for more information.
Lady Lothrein Minmatar Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2009.05.10 10:49:00 - [77] So CCP - why not just tell the truth and admit you think FW was a mistake and close it?
Donatien de'Sade Ars Notoria	Posted - 2009.05.10 11:03:00 - [78] Edited by: Donatien de''Sade on 10/05/2009 11:02:56 Originally by: Lady Lothrein So CCP - why not just tell the truth and admit you think FW was a mistake and close it? This tbh. You created it, you nerfed it and decided to ignore it...classic CCP Was good fun in the beginning. In the beginning the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move
Booby Trap	Posted - 2009.05.10 11:13:00 - [79] Lag should not be a problem anymore because there is no large scale fighting going on.
Sapporo Ichiban	Posted - 2009.05.10 11:26:00 - [80] Originally by: Booby Trap Lag should not be a problem anymore because there is no large scale fighting going on. it's the other way around and define large scale . if two 20 man fleets run into eachother , there's gonna be lag

Wolfie276	Posted - 2009.05.10 11:53:00 - [81] it should be fixed...im not a FW guy myself (it looks cool, but all the lag makes me reconsider), but many of ur players are actually FW ppl...think of it
Crazy Tasty Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2009.05.10 14:23:00 - [82] Just my 2 cents, but we've noticed this same stuff since we moved near Tama. Tama itself seems fine, maybe its on a different node, but surrounding systems can become unplayable when fighting FW in them, even when only medium size gangs are in play. Its especially bad if you don't hold the grid first also. ------ // This is by design. When a ship jumps through a gate, it clears all aggression. // - BH ******** Pew on gate, if it gets hot, jump through and Ctrl-Q. Game mechanic endorsed by CCP.
Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.05.10 17:33:00 - [83] Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 10/05/2009 17:33:01 Originally by: Astria Tiphareth A simple 'we're still looking into it, don't worry' wouldn't hurt. Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're looking into this situation and we'll update you as soon as we can. Ok that's just scary More seriously, thanks and the continued effort is appreciated. Are you needing more input from FW members, or is it just a case of being patient & bughunting to find the problem? ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
Aurora Nyx Caldari Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2009.05.10 18:01:00 - [84] My daily bump, waiting for more info. Also, i would like to thank the non-FW players that share the area with us for adding that they also lag horribly, Yarrrr!
Aurora Nyx Caldari Shadows Of The Federation	Posted - 2009.05.11 17:41:00 - [85] Daily bump. I really don't want FW to be forgotten (again).
Sapporo Ichiban	Posted - 2009.05.12 11:26:00 - [86] bump
ArmyOfMe The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.05.12 12:13:00 - [87] Edited by: ArmyOfMe on 12/05/2009 12:14:13 Originally by: Sapporo Ichiban bump you can bump all you want, but the truth still remains that the only two things ccp cares about are the players in 0,0 and their alt accounts and carebears in high sec. they dont give a rats ass about anything that has to do with low sec and thats pretty much been going on the last 4 years
Sapporo Ichiban	Posted - 2009.05.12 20:25:00 - [88] then I'll keep bumping till they do

CCP RyanD Caldari C C P	Posted - 2009.05.12 20:48:00 - [89] Originally by: Aurora Nyx Daily bump. I really don't want FW to be forgotten (again). Please don't "daily bump". As we already stated we are aware that users are having problems and we're actively looking into the root cause. As soon as more info comes available, we'll communicate it. Both the Virtual Worlds Operations team, and the Core Engineering team have been alerted to this situation, there is an extensive bug report on file and there are plans for diagnostic tests for SiSi in the works. FW is an important part of the EVE experience and we want it to work well as much as you do. We're on it. RyanD

Reptzo Channel 4 News Team	Posted - 2009.05.12 21:10:00 - [90] Not to say you guys (ccp) aren't trying, but your information flow sucks. It seems like every other month, a big thread is made about FW lag, and the devs say that they are aware, and are working fixing it. What ever became of the test fights? and other stuff that you guys did? It is all well and good to say you are working on it, but the hard fact is that we want to see something, or hear something specific. Perception is reality! We don't see or hear anything from you guys other than "we are working on it". Maybe the reason these threads keep getting started is due to lack of communication? Just my thoughts, done venting, not meant to be a flame.

Aurora Nyx Caldari Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.05.13 13:36:00 - [91] Originally by: Reptzo Not to say you guys (ccp) aren't trying, but your information flow sucks. It seems like every other month, a big thread is made about FW lag, and the devs say that they are aware, and are working fixing it. What ever became of the test fights? and other stuff that you guys did? It is all well and good to say you are working on it, but the hard fact is that we want to see something, or hear something specific. Perception is reality! We don't see or hear anything from you guys other than "we are working on it". Maybe the reason these threads keep getting started is due to lack of communication? Just my thoughts, done venting, not meant to be a flame. This.
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.05.13 13:56:00 - [92] Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 13/05/2009 13:56:29 Originally by: Reptzo Just my thoughts, done venting, not meant to be a flame. When somebody vents thermal exhaust it is bound to be a flame ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.05.13 14:12:00 - [93] Originally by: Solbright Sounds like very little of what is being reported here is lag. Of the very few descriptions there is talk of displays freezing and log servers crashing. These are both client side bugs and nothing to do with lag at all. I recommend you try Factional Warfare. As many, many people have stated, they are able to do exactly the same thing in 0.0 without any of the problems, as I am. This problem was much less noticeable beforehand, with the exact same hardware and software configuration. Create an alt and join one of the militias and give it a go. You'll be surprised at the difference.
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.05.13 14:14:00 - [94] Originally by: ArmyOfMe well we just had two fleets of about about 20 each jump into each other in low sec, (no fw, just outlaws on both sides). started out great, without any lag at all. 2min into the fight my mods all of a sudden refuses to activate and i cant target anything anymore. a few min later i start getting entering system over and over again, so its not just for fw this lags happen It may well be more to do with lowsec than actual factional warfare, which could suggest that it may be about aggression calculations, or something similar. Do you get the same problem in nullsec?
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.05.13 14:30:00 - [95] Originally by: CCP RyanD Please don't "daily bump". As we already stated we are aware that users are having problems and we're actively looking into the root cause. As soon as more info comes available, we'll communicate it. Both the Virtual Worlds Operations team, and the Core Engineering team have been alerted to this situation, there is an extensive bug report on file and there are plans for diagnostic tests for SiSi in the works. FW is an important part of the EVE experience and we want it to work well as much as you do. We're on it. RyanD I can appreciate this can be a difficult problem to identify, but I hope that it will be prioritised now that the expansion is largely out of the way. I know that the factional warfare population is not as great as the nullsec one, but if this game mechanic is to pull people away from highsec, it will have to resolve a couple of issues, and chief among these is the lag. Factional Warfare has excellent potential, and could easily grow into a much more integral part of the game, but as it stands, it doesn't quite get to the target of enticing people into PvP. Many who try do tend revert back to highsec, which is a shame. It may be useful arranging a fleet fight between the Gallente and Caldari at some point, much like we did quite a few months back in OMS, with everyone running logserver, and CCP monitoring the situation in their ships. Maybe we could do this on a regular basis, as so to provide regular data for the code-monkeys.
Aurora Nyx Caldari Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.05.14 17:46:00 - [96] Originally by: Ratchman Originally by: Solbright Sounds like very little of what is being reported here is lag. Of the very few descriptions there is talk of displays freezing and log servers crashing. These are both client side bugs and nothing to do with lag at all. I recommend you try Factional Warfare. As many, many people have stated, they are able to do exactly the same thing in 0.0 without any of the problems, as I am. This problem was much less noticeable beforehand, with the exact same hardware and software configuration. Create an alt and join one of the militias and give it a go. You'll be surprised at the difference.
Bablu Hassan Minmatar State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.05.14 18:32:00 - [97] Official response from CCP Bablu Hassan (no im not an employee and no I'm not impersonating anyone specific. /end legal small print): "Dear players. Thank you for your previous enjoyment of pvp in black rise. However, it is no longer our new pet so we have decided to move our servers from the FW regions and give them to our new(er) pets and pets we alliance slave's love: Wormholes and Delve" Just give us our feckkin servers back and we'll stop whining. You guys make PLENTY of money...
Aurora Nyx Caldari Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.05.15 13:32:00 - [98] Originally by: Bablu Hassan Official response from CCP Bablu Hassan (no im not an employee and no I'm not impersonating anyone specific. /end legal small print): "Dear players. Thank you for your previous enjoyment of pvp in black rise. However, it is no longer our new pet so we have decided to move our servers from the FW regions and give them to our new(er) pets and pets we alliance slave's love: Wormholes and Delve" Just give us our feckkin servers back and we'll stop whining. You guys make PLENTY of money... Well said. Also, i would like to see some official comment other than "we're working on it, please don't annoy us."
Aurora Nyx Caldari Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.05.16 18:21:00 - [99] Originally by: Ratchman It may be useful arranging a fleet fight between the Gallente and Caldari at some point, much like we did quite a few months back in OMS, with everyone running logserver, and CCP monitoring the situation in their ships. Maybe we could do this on a regular basis, as so to provide regular data for the code-monkeys. Not sure this would be that useful, if you remember at least half of us crashed our logservers with the lag.
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.05.18 10:46:00 - [100] Originally by: Aurora Nyx Originally by: Ratchman It may be useful arranging a fleet fight between the Gallente and Caldari at some point, much like we did quite a few months back in OMS, with everyone running logserver, and CCP monitoring the situation in their ships. Maybe we could do this on a regular basis, as so to provide regular data for the code-monkeys. Not sure this would be that useful, if you remember at least half of us crashed our logservers with the lag. Unfortunately, yes, the lag does have a tendancy to crash the logserver, but it is the only form of proof we can actually provide CCP. But if we don't do it, CCP won't know that there's a problem.

Willian Lewis	Posted - 2009.05.18 10:54:00 - [101] Yesterday, during a medium sized fight, my overview started to duplicate everything. Started off just doubling up, the quadrupling and seemed to stop at 8 of everything on overview. Then I started getting this odd 'Entering space' message repeating. Brackets off helped a lot, but I still DC'ed two times No idea if this has been reported before, just wanted to mention it incase it was helpful. lolz
Rachel Silverside Caldari K Directorate	Posted - 2009.05.18 11:18:00 - [102] i just dont fight anymore mainly cause i suck but the times i did/do participate lag is gay plus d/c -------------------- i play momorpugers
Zaerlorth Maelkor The Maverick Navy Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.18 12:11:00 - [103] Originally by: Willian Lewis Yesterday, during a medium sized fight, my overview started to duplicate everything. Started off just doubling up, the quadrupling and seemed to stop at 8 of everything on overview. Then I started getting this odd 'Entering space' message repeating. Brackets off helped a lot, but I still DC'ed two times No idea if this has been reported before, just wanted to mention it incase it was helpful. ---- BUG REPORT --- ================================================== I should really get a sig.
Willian Lewis	Posted - 2009.05.18 15:55:00 - [104] Originally by: Zaerlorth Maelkor ---- BUG REPORT --- Ok, i have the time, will get it officially repoted lolz
Aurora Nyx Caldari Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.05.21 17:56:00 - [105] Originally by: Willian Lewis Originally by: Zaerlorth Maelkor ---- BUG REPORT --- Ok, i have the time, will get it officially repoted "Working as intended", lol. Anyone feel like adding to the stories of lag, or you think CCP have their hands full with fixing the jumps that freeze our clients ?
Krystal Vernet Minmatar Midnight Captains	Posted - 2009.05.21 18:15:00 - [106] Originally by: Jowen Datloran Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 13/05/2009 13:56:29 Originally by: Reptzo Just my thoughts, done venting, not meant to be a flame. When somebody vents thermal exhaust it is bound to be a flame This made me laugh out loud. Or well, laugh in my usual silent, wheezing manner. >_>
Aurora Nyx Caldari Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.05.23 18:07:00 - [107] Wow. Over 3 weeks since i started this thread and STILL nothing other than "we're working on it", which is all we've heard for almost 1 year now :)
Rilwar BlackStar Industrial	Posted - 2009.05.23 20:09:00 - [108] Up Mitnal was here.
Kat Bandeis Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.05.23 20:31:00 - [109] Originally by: Aurora Nyx Not sure this would be that useful, if you remember at least half of us crashed our logservers with the lag. Curious what you'd like to hear. Do you want each of the devs to write for you a detailed report of how they're doing the testing, what steps they're taking, post an update every time they make a change to code on their dev boxes (not Sisi), results of those test, etc? Waste more time on documentation for YOU than actually working on the problem? Is that what you want? Yeah, I'm a software developer, and sometime you guys just need to chill out and wait. Two CCP devs have said it's being worked on, and you being able to view their development efforts statistically won't "fix" it any sooner.
Ankhesentapemkah Gallente Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2009.05.23 22:43:00 - [110] Originally by: Aurora Nyx Wow. Over 3 weeks since i started this thread and STILL nothing other than "we're working on it", which is all we've heard for almost 1 year now :) That's all we ever hear if it has anything to do with Factional Warfare, I'm affraid. ---

5pinDizzy	Posted - 2009.05.23 23:14:00 - [111] Do they still want us to make logservers if we go out and fight in faction war? I was in a faction war fight the other day and I remember in pretty good detail the way it lagged. ---------------------------------------------- There was around 30 of us fighting on the gate, I mean including the enemy; - Game was running completely smooth fps wise. - Everything responding fine for the first 30 odd seconds of the fight. - Massive module lag followed, mods were activating, but they were taking at least 20 seconds to activate, I swapped my ammo type and told to to fire again at someone at long range, nothing happens then around 15 seconds later guns magically instantly change to the ammo type I loaded and show to be already firing. - In this it seemed like I was keeping reasonable control of my ship, I honestly can't remember if it was obeying my flightpath instructions straightaway, but they were being followed eventually. - I was getting capacitor empty voice calls when my capacitor on screen still showed at being 50% full. - Everything I click gives me a message about it already being activated, despite not showing to be activated. - Eve voice never lagged and everything I saw everyone else doing was shown properly and in real time, I saw ships blow up on screen the same time as the fc said they were dead etc... only my controls from my own perspective suffered lag ******ation. - As soon as the fight was fully over, controls went from massive lag to magically instantly responding again straight away.
Ankhesentapemkah Gallente Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2009.05.25 00:48:00 - [112] Originally by: CCP RyanD Please don't "daily bump". Please fix the problem. ---
Aurora Nyx Caldari Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.05.25 16:43:00 - [113] Minmitar hold a gate, 30 in total. Amarr jump in to us. We would have the advantage you may say, afterall we are already on grid, the Amarr have to load AND deal with things like uncloaking. 20 of our fleet die without playing much part in the battle. Lag. Thanks CCP, this is just 1 more day in a week filled with lag battles in anything over a 10v10.
Ankhesentapemkah Gallente Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2009.05.26 14:48:00 - [114] Originally by: Aurora Nyx Minmitar hold a gate, 30 in total. Amarr jump in to us. We would have the advantage you may say, afterall we are already on grid, the Amarr have to load AND deal with things like uncloaking. 20 of our fleet die without playing much part in the battle. Lag. Thanks CCP, this is just 1 more day in a week filled with lag battles in anything over a 10v10. That is quite crazy and a perfect example of why this issue must be fixed right away. I can imagine that led to a lot of frustration. ---
Kuluskitur Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.05.26 18:32:00 - [115] Fix the lag already, why does 0.0 get all the juice while we can't even have 30 people in a brawl?
Ankhesentapemkah Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2009.05.29 18:01:00 - [116] Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're looking into this situation and we'll update you as soon as we can. So, where is the update? ---
qanatas Minmatar Cadre Assault Force	Posted - 2009.05.31 22:58:00 - [117] Is this still being looked into ? Any updates ? Anything involving a somewhat large battle with battleships, and the client completely lags out, even to the point where you're completely desyncing with the server...
Aurora Nyx Caldari Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.06.01 06:17:00 - [118] Originally by: CCP Wrangler We're looking into this situation and we'll update you as soon as we can. Almost 1 month since you wrote this, Wrangler..... ..... and thats why this thread keeps going.

CCP RyanD Caldari C C P	Posted - 2009.06.01 06:31:00 - [119] Status remains the same: Actively being investigated by engineering and virtual world operations. As soon as we have a specific resolution we will update the community. RyanD

Qinoly Gallente Remember Redemption	Posted - 2009.06.03 02:46:00 - [120] Originally by: Kuluskitur Fix the lag already, why does 0.0 get all the juice while we can't even have 30 people in a brawl? Solution for you : Take these 30 ppl to 0.0 and fight there. Problem solved Wrangler :) _________________________________________________ Shattered Crystal 60 Days Eve-Online GTC

Grawen	Posted - 2009.06.03 21:31:00 - [121] I hope the lag issue is fixed soon. There's hundreds of people committed to FW, who would like to see increased participation, but the frequent frustrated convos about this problem don't bode well. Makes ppl more timid about fleeting up.
Aurora Nyx Caldari Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.06.04 09:14:00 - [122] Originally by: Grawen I hope the lag issue is fixed soon. There's hundreds of people committed to FW, who would like to see increased participation, but the frequent frustrated convos about this problem don't bode well. Makes ppl more timid about fleeting up. It's the reason we don't see 30v30 - 80v80 much these days. And at the end of a lag battle each night, we have convo's with our enemies as to who lagged worse, although the kilboard usually shows us what we need to know.
Ankhesentapemkah Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.06.04 18:59:00 - [123] All nice that you're aware of it and working on it, but we've heard that since October 2008. This needs a higher priority.
Allen Ramses Caldari Typo Corp	Posted - 2009.06.04 20:58:00 - [124] Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah All nice that you're aware of it and working on it, but we've heard that since October 2008. Without a single update since.
Nephilim Xeno Caldari Pimebeka Mining Corp	Posted - 2009.06.06 22:30:00 - [125] and i can confirm the lag is still there as bad as always and it's always the same: fighst starts shooting first primary and everything seems fine first primary dies and mass desyncs start relogging eliminates the lag completly for some time but desyncing starts again very soon another funny effect is that even when i am completly desynced and i cant target anything or activate any module, i could still recall my drones without any delay before i relogged this is just another indication that its definalty a coding issue and not regular lag this are ~30 vs ~30 battles with almost no other players in system this HAS to be fixed at least boost the systems where most of the fights happen, there are not that many of them! there are also many pvp rookies trying out pvp in FW, is THIS really what their first pvp expierience should be?
Ankhesentapemkah Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.06.06 22:55:00 - [126] This issue is being raised for the CSM meeting this sunday by Erik Finnegan. Since it got voted down in CSM2, perhaps consider sending some friendly PMs to your CSM representatives. Here's the list of the people to nag!
Aurora Nyx Caldari Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.06.07 06:51:00 - [127] Originally by: Nephilim Xeno there are also many pvp rookies trying out pvp in FW, is THIS really what their first pvp expierience should be? CCP even sold instant access to FW as a feature for the retail box recently. They knew what they were doing, and i believe they know exactly how many new pilots got lagged out in their first day in Eve and never logeed back in again. As we've already found out thanks to a couple of pirates that share our systems and have posted here, this affects everyone, not just FW enlisted pilots.
qanatas Minmatar Cadre Assault Force	Posted - 2009.06.08 06:55:00 - [128] Originally by: Nephilim Xeno and i can confirm the lag is still there as bad as always and it's always the same: fighst starts shooting first primary and everything seems fine first primary dies and mass desyncs start relogging eliminates the lag completly for some time but desyncing starts again very soon another funny effect is that even when i am completly desynced and i cant target anything or activate any module, i could still recall my drones without any delay before i relogged This is indeed exactly how it happens. Yesterday we could have had a few nice battles, if it wasnt for this to happen. It starts out fine, but as soon as more people enter the field, your modules refuse to work anymore, up to the point where you get an infinite loop of 'entering space'.
BattleStar Crusader Amarr Absinthe Brothers Consortium	Posted - 2009.06.08 12:13:00 - [129] I think the main problem here ccp is that you created faction war with a massive luanch and up until Quantum Rise there were no lag isues like this. I remember having commanded a 100+ bs blob with nothing but graphics lag due to the sheer amount of people. After quantum rise the mkassive dysnc lag hit with no warning, you left it for a few months and then adressed it, you got rid of it for a while and it was brilliant the lag was gone for the most part and we could have bigger fights but not to big. Then the next patch its was back again. I think the main concern with the players is not the fact they are annoyed with lag, its mainley the lack of good customer service. I mean countelss petitions come back with generic responses, months and months between updates. This is such a huge problem and effects over 10,000 of your players. Thats 1 quater of the player base on the whole server ate any given time. A weekley update would suffice just to give us a bit more indepth information, you know like "today we looked into x file and found no problem this week we are looking into y file and we will let you know" Its not to hard to do that and it will keep your customers happy. I know of alot of good players who have just quit eve becuase of your poor customer service. So for the benfit of your company and its income, and our moneys worth and fun, can you creat a thread with weekley up dates. This problem has been around for many many months now. it needs to be fixed. Roll back factionwar to empryian age if needs be. just make it go away.
Allen Ramses Caldari Typo Corp	Posted - 2009.06.08 19:41:00 - [130] One thing I didn't realize until I saw the HPC/Microsoft presentation was that StacklessIO was a networking layer, and it appeared the proxy blades were significantly reduced. And considering there were endless unordered packet and missing packet errors in logserver when the lag fests occurred, I'd say StacklessIO or the reduction of proxy blades might have something to do with it. CCP Mindstar, if you're reading, might you be able to rule this out? You are the networking guy after all.

Kel Nissa	Posted - 2009.06.08 20:13:00 - [131] The only thing wich would be fine is more transparency.
Armoured C Gallente Federation of Freedom Fighters Aggression.	Posted - 2009.06.09 00:00:00 - [132] how is FW these days ? is it worth putting a freshly braned armoured alt into the frey OFFLINE[ONLINE]
Aurora Nyx Caldari Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.06.09 09:11:00 - [133] Originally by: Armoured C how is FW these days ? is it worth putting a freshly braned armoured alt into the frey Gallente only have fighting left, plexing is over (all systems taken by the squids). 20 v 20 and above will cause lag in any low sec system, so be wary of losing decent gear and implants. Pirates are probably the biggest force in the Caldari/Gallente pipelines. And yes, it's still fun in FW despite the bad things we write about :)
Nareg Maxence Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.09 09:53:00 - [134] Edited by: Nareg Maxence on 09/06/2009 09:54:44 I am sure some people have already filed bugreports with logserver output. Still, every little bit helps, so keep filing bugreports with logserver output from lagfights. Basically, whenever you plan of fleeting, you should have your logserver up and running. Even if you have already filed five reports, it still helps to file more.
Nephilim Xeno Caldari Pimebeka Mining Corp	Posted - 2009.06.10 22:15:00 - [135] i would really like to have some REAL info on what CCP is doing atm to investigate and fix this lag? the lack of transparency on this issue is really bad! also this lag was already fixed once, why is it so hard to fix it again? this definatly needs a higher priority on CCPs TODO list i want an update on this issue!
SuiJuris	Posted - 2009.06.10 22:18:00 - [136] So far FW has been a hoot, if you enjoy getting a evemail about your insurance payout on the ship that it appears your still flying around in until you relaunch the game. We can't even have a 20vs20 without 75% of the parties involved lagging out.
Eggars New Light	Posted - 2009.06.10 22:25:00 - [137] An update on the progress of the investigation would be appreciated.
Richard Third Gallente Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.06.11 08:06:00 - [138] Originally by: Nareg Maxence Originally by: OJH Gall/Caldari militia had several "Create lag on purpose" events after they asked. That's fine, but if the problem is on the client and not on the server, all you get is 'our logs show nothing'. Players need to file bug reports with logserver outputs. The problem is not the reporting. 17 vs 17 results in horrendous lag. Is anyone disputing this? NO! -- You can't do that with a Planet.
Richard Third Gallente Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.06.11 08:12:00 - [139] Originally by: 5pinDizzy Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 23/05/2009 23:50:29 Do they still want us to make logservers if we go out and fight in faction war? After all it's not strictly submitting a bug is it? I was in a faction war fight the other day and I remember in pretty good detail the way it lagged. ---------------------------------------------- There was around 30 of us fighting on the gate, I mean including the enemy; - Game was running completely smooth fps wise. - Everything responding fine for the first 30 odd seconds of the fight. - As I was locking someone, game starting skipping back to a point in the past and replaying it again for 5 seconds or so, including my lock timer that kept going back up before it ran down to getting near a lock, it did this around 6-7 times, you know the lag effect I'm talking about, think of the dejavu cat from the Matrix but more than twice. - Massive module lag followed, mods were activating, but they were taking at least 20 seconds to activate, I swapped my ammo type and told to to fire again at someone at long range, nothing happens then around 15 seconds later guns magically instantly change to the ammo type I loaded and show to be already firing. - In this it seemed like I was keeping reasonable control of my ship, I honestly can't remember if it was obeying my flightpath instructions straightaway, but they were being followed eventually. - I was getting capacitor empty voice calls when my capacitor on screen still showed at being 50% full. - Everything I click gives me a message about it already being activated, despite not showing to be activated. - Eve voice never lagged and everything I saw everyone else doing was shown properly and in real time, I saw ships blow up on screen the same time as the fc said they were dead etc... only my controls from my own perspective suffered lag ******ation. - As soon as the fight was fully over, controls went from massive lag to magically instantly responding again straight away. Is all that pretty much natural symptoms of a desync? As it seems the skipping I described near the start of my list ensued to me being out of sync by around 20 seconds with the rest of the fight, even though I could see it happening in real time, a bit like being trapped in a time bubble and looking through the side at the world travelling at normal speed. That's oldschool lag like you were connected with dialup. And exactly the same as I have with "broadband". Again you ahve made an excellent description of the lag. That is, the network packets you receive are about 30 seconds out of date. -- You can't do that with a Planet.
Nephilim Xeno Caldari Pimebeka Mining Corp	Posted - 2009.06.11 12:31:00 - [140] still demanding an update!

Turiel Demon Minmatar Shadow Reapers	Posted - 2009.06.11 12:45:00 - [141] Still respectfully requesting an update Also, it has come to my attention that I'm really in need of a proper signature.
Aurora Nyx Caldari Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.06.11 16:53:00 - [142] Thankyou guys, it's important that CCP know exactly how long it's been since the problem started, and how long it's taken them to give us just another "we're on it"
Dark Ooz	Posted - 2009.06.11 18:36:00 - [143] Edited by: Dark Ooz on 11/06/2009 18:37:01 Hmmm. Been in fleet battles every day over the past week, and it's just lagtastic. Completely unplayable, whether it's 30v30 or 50v50. What's up with this, CCP?
Ankhesentapemkah Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.06.11 19:18:00 - [144] We won't stop till it's fixed. And fix the stupid cloak exploit and the overview map crash while you're at it...
Nareg Maxence Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.11 19:22:00 - [145] Originally by: Richard Third Originally by: Nareg Maxence Originally by: OJH Gall/Caldari militia had several "Create lag on purpose" events after they asked. That's fine, but if the problem is on the client and not on the server, all you get is 'our logs show nothing'. Players need to file bug reports with logserver outputs. The problem is not the reporting. 17 vs 17 results in horrendous lag. Is anyone disputing this? NO! You don't seem to get it. The problem is that to diagnose why exactly the problem occurs, you need data from as many people as possible, the more the better. Just mindlessly shouting on the forum for updates doesn't help the situation in any way.
Nareg Maxence Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.11 19:23:00 - [146] Originally by: Dark Ooz Edited by: Dark Ooz on 11/06/2009 18:37:01 Hmmm. Been in fleet battles every day over the past week, and it's just lagtastic. Completely unplayable, whether it's 30v30 or 50v50. What's up with this, CCP? Were you recording the session on logserver? Did you file a bugreport? No?
Nareg Maxence Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.11 19:31:00 - [147] Originally by: Sapporo Ichiban FW vs. pirates causes the same amount of lag It has been reported in 0.0 as well.
Allen Ramses Caldari Typo Corp	Posted - 2009.06.11 20:00:00 - [148] Logservers are useless now, the problem has been verified as far as I'm concerned. Every logserver file is flooded with unordered packets and missing packets during combat. It is obviously a networking issue, considering StacklessIO and the reduction of proxy blades were both deployed at around the time we started seeing problems. So have you been looking at the network saturation or stability? 8 months is long enough to brush off the issue, answer the god damned question, CCP.
Nareg Maxence Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.11 20:05:00 - [149] Originally by: Allen Ramses Logservers are useless now, the problem has been verified as far as I'm concerned. Once again, not about verifying the issue. Everybody acknowledges it's there. This is about finding the cause.
Allen Ramses Caldari Typo Corp	Posted - 2009.06.11 20:15:00 - [150] The problem IS the cause. Laggy FW battles are a by-product of that problem, which is insufficient network allocation.

Nareg Maxence Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.11 20:18:00 - [151] Originally by: Allen Ramses The problem IS the cause. Laggy FW battles are a by-product of that problem, which is insufficient network allocation. CCP, hire this person!!!! Originally by: CCP RyanD Status remains the same: Actively being investigated by engineering and virtual world operations. As soon as we have a specific resolution we will update the community. RyanD
Arban Staz	Posted - 2009.06.11 22:03:00 - [152] I guess smarter people than me have already considered this, but has anyone seen FW-style lag in battles where neither side was using Eve voice?
Allen Ramses Caldari Typo Corp	Posted - 2009.06.11 23:06:00 - [153] There is nothing to consider. EVE voice runs on a different process, and is not handled by the TQ cluster (AFAIK). ____________________ CCP: Catering to the cowards of a cold, harsh universe since November, 2006.
ollobrains THORN Syndicate Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.06.12 02:43:00 - [154] eve voice only lags up if u have poor bandwidth issues
Aurora Nyx Caldari Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.06.12 07:58:00 - [155] Originally by: Nareg Maxence Originally by: Dark Ooz Edited by: Dark Ooz on 11/06/2009 18:37:01 Hmmm. Been in fleet battles every day over the past week, and it's just lagtastic. Completely unplayable, whether it's 30v30 or 50v50. What's up with this, CCP? Were you recording the session on logserver? Did you file a bugreport? No? Not sure why you have a problem with people trying to point out how bad CCP's response and attitude is. A big FYI here..... we had a MASS logserver event WITH CCP co-operation on the night. Half of our logservers crashed in the lag. There were still many, many sucessful logs taken and handed in. Since that event (which was quite a few months ago now), our pilots are STILL posting logserver files, reporting lag bugs, getting ships replaced on a REGULAR basis, and STILL we have nothing more than a "We're on it", which for a problem that makes the game unplayable as it was intended, is nothing short of laughable. CCP need to tell us what the hell is going on, FW has been in existence for over 1 year now with this terrible performance.
Nareg Maxence Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.12 08:56:00 - [156] Originally by: Aurora Nyx Not sure why you have a problem with people trying to point out how bad CCP's response and attitude is. A big FYI here..... we had a MASS logserver event WITH CCP co-operation on the night. Half of our logservers crashed in the lag. There were still many, many sucessful logs taken and handed in. Since that event (which was quite a few months ago now), our pilots are STILL posting logserver files, reporting lag bugs, getting ships replaced on a REGULAR basis, and STILL we have nothing more than a "We're on it", which for a problem that makes the game unplayable as it was intended, is nothing short of laughable. CCP need to tell us what the hell is going on, FW has been in existence for over 1 year now with this terrible performance. My problem, is with people asking the same damn question over and over again, like a mindless parot repeating itself, when they already know the answer, because CCP RyanD stated it not two weeks ago in this very thread. Let me quote it for you once more. Originally by: CCP RyanD Status remains the same: Actively being investigated by engineering and virtual world operations. As soon as we have a specific resolution we will update the community. RyanD Let me translate it for you: Response = Eureka!!! No response = Still don't know what's causing it, sorry.
BattleStar Crusader Amarr Absinthe Brothers Consortium	Posted - 2009.06.12 09:22:00 - [157] You are right that when they post a response it will be the answer we are looking for (LAG GONE) but for the last 8 months ** all has been done about it and all has been said about it by ccp. They got rid of it before why not again. They have ed up alot of peoples game time and ed off alot of people. CCP ING FIX THE **ING PROBLEM. its getting absolutley ridiculouse now
Nareg Maxence Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.12 09:37:00 - [158] Originally by: BattleStar Crusader They got rid of it before why not again. Strange. When was this exactly? As far as I know, FW fans have been complaining about this since the inception.
M0rning5tar Slacker Industries The Boat Violencing Initiative	Posted - 2009.06.12 10:04:00 - [159] Originally by: Eggars An update on the progress of the investigation would be appreciated. Bumping this.
Aurora Nyx Caldari Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.06.12 17:00:00 - [160] Originally by: Nareg Maxence Originally by: Aurora Nyx Not sure why you have a problem with people trying to point out how bad CCP's response and attitude is. A big FYI here..... we had a MASS logserver event WITH CCP co-operation on the night. Half of our logservers crashed in the lag. There were still many, many sucessful logs taken and handed in. Since that event (which was quite a few months ago now), our pilots are STILL posting logserver files, reporting lag bugs, getting ships replaced on a REGULAR basis, and STILL we have nothing more than a "We're on it", which for a problem that makes the game unplayable as it was intended, is nothing short of laughable. CCP need to tell us what the hell is going on, FW has been in existence for over 1 year now with this terrible performance. My problem, is with people asking the same damn question over and over again, like a mindless parot repeating itself, when they already know the answer, because CCP RyanD stated it not two weeks ago in this very thread. Let me quote it for you once more. Originally by: CCP RyanD Status remains the same: Actively being investigated by engineering and virtual world operations. As soon as we have a specific resolution we will update the community. RyanD Let me translate it for you: Response = Eureka!!! No response = Still don't know what's causing it, sorry. Don't like it ? Don't read the thread. It's your right to ignore this thread completely. Of course, the more you reply here, the bigger the thread gets, and the more times it goes to the top, which serves the rest of us just fine. So keep bumping for us :)

Allen Ramses Caldari Typo Corp	Posted - 2009.06.12 19:50:00 - [161] Originally by: CCP Valar Around 3 weeks ago we replaced the other half of our sol servers. The new servers have 3.3 GHz Wolfdale CPUs and 16 GB of RAM and replace our old 2.8 GHz AMDs that have 4 GB of RAM. With this upgrade we were able to start running all of our cluster on 64-bit processes, but we had to run 32-bit processes on machines that had 4 GB RAM due to the RAM usage overhead of 64-bit processes. Well, this rules out the geriatric nodes that may have been hosting FW areas. Performance was no different two months ago than it is now. One variable is officially gone. So, CCP, when are you going to check out the network efficiency? Perhaps removing about half of the proxy blades was not such a good idea? Perhaps your StacklessIO ****ed up your packet scheduling (please tell me you have at least some form of packet scheduling)? If what I know about StacklessIO is true, it was developed in-house, and has had little (if any) testing outside of EVE. ____________________ CCP: Catering to the cowards of a cold, harsh universe since November, 2006.
Nephilim Xeno Caldari Pimebeka Mining Corp	Posted - 2009.06.12 21:18:00 - [162] somehow i dont really belive its an issue with the cpu/memory of the server allocated to systems because when you relog back into the lag fight its comepletly lag free for you for a little while everytime i relogged when i had entering space and all this crap i could target without delay and also active mods with almost zero delay. but as soon as you start fighting again you desync right away it's more like the packets that keep your client up to date with the current situation get dropped somewhere was there a change of the queuing mechanisms of routers or anything like that?
Arban Staz	Posted - 2009.06.12 21:24:00 - [163] Originally by: Allen Ramses There is nothing to consider. EVE voice runs on a different process, and is not handled by the TQ cluster (AFAIK). Maybe, but when someone in my fleet talks in EV, they go to the top of the member list in fleet chat so there is some kind of link at least. Does the voice server tell the TQ cluster which tells my client, or does the voice server tell my client direct? Does the client do any kind of packet shaping, with a preference for voice over data? Also, lets remember that the problem isn't something obvious, or it would have been found and fixed by now. Something that shouldn't be causing lag, is. And its only causing it for FW fleet battles. And most FW fleets use EV, while most 0.0 and pirate fleets use TS or Vent. Or is it time to crawl back under my rock?
Zitala	Posted - 2009.06.12 22:42:00 - [164] Originally by: Allen Ramses So, CCP, when are you going to check out the network efficiency? Perhaps removing about half of the proxy blades was not such a good idea? Perhaps your StacklessIO **ed up your packet scheduling (please tell me you have at least some form of packet scheduling)? You know, come to think of it, these problems actually seem a lot like a preemptive scheduler being swamped by a multitude of context switches. I don't know much about EVE's architecture, but if stackless I/O works in a similiar fashion... Judging from former accounts the first kill would appear to trigger a high priority job displacing whatever the (I/O-)scheduler is busy with at that particular time (maybe including jobs of it's own priority, thus leading to them displacing each other time and again?). Result: poor thing is so busy it never gets around to send the "low priority" stuff like UI feedback. This would also be in line with Originally by:** Nephilim Xeno everytime i relogged when i had entering space and all this crap i could target without delay and also active mods with almost zero delay. but as soon as you start fighting again you desync right away because it's perfectly fine outside the combat bubble, but as soon as you reenter (and get the thrashing scheduler back) your information feed dies again. The really interesting part is that it doesn't seem to affect large 0.0 alliances duking it out. Two questions to the more experienced players: 1. does the same thing happen with large battles in highsec wardecs? 2. what about large pirate fleets clashing? (This is highly speculative, but since according to one poster in this thread it happens in 0.0-FW-fights as well, the first game mechanism coming to mind would be wardecs. I doubt the large 0.0-alliances bother with them and from my little experience with highsec wars, they tend to be smaller, thus probably not exposing the bug.) Meh, I'm probably dead wrong anyway.
Nephilim Xeno Caldari Pimebeka Mining Corp	Posted - 2009.06.12 23:40:00 - [165] Edited by: Nephilim Xeno on 12/06/2009 23:40:39 in one battle i reloged while being scramed, so no "leaving the fight bubble" and even then it was almost lag free after relog until i started to shoot again and 30 sec later it was a complete desync againt until the next relog i also reported another strange thing already which was the fact that i could recall my drones when i got the "entering space" messages and recalling the drones worked like there was no lag at all i gave the recall command and the status changed quickly from fighting to returing and a few seconds later the drones where in my drone bay so i could relog without loosing them all this happened while everything else module or targeting related was completly desynced and non responsive for minutes i found this very odd
Richard Third Gallente Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.06.13 00:56:00 - [166] well i think it's an engineering problem. The packets come through about 30 seconds too late. Don't know what the problem is, but the engineer who wrote that code is probably long gone, or wrote it for the wrong hardware, or had the code maintained by an intern or something.
Richard Third Gallente Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.06.13 01:03:00 - [167] Eve hits it's fifth birthday, her gift to us: LAG.
Aurora Nyx Caldari Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.06.13 09:46:00 - [168] Originally by: Richard Third Eve hits it's fifth birthday, her gift to us: LAG. Did she keep the receipt ? Cos i'd really like to take the lag back to the store and swap it for some socks or something useful.
Nephilim Xeno Caldari Pimebeka Mining Corp	Posted - 2009.06.13 16:22:00 - [169] another day without any info from ccp ! i would at least like to know if the cause of lag as been found
M0rning5tar Slacker Industries The Boat Violencing Initiative	Posted - 2009.06.13 20:17:00 - [170] Originally by: Nephilim Xeno another day without any info from ccp ! i would at least like to know if the cause of lag as been found The second after CCP released FW, every single action has demonstrated time and again: they don't give a flying **. Sov meaningless, lag making 20 on 20's almost impossible - and it's taken it's toll on all 4 of the militia's #'s. Why bother staying in such a buggy incomplete format? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying FW. I'm saying ** CCP for sitting on their asses and not telling us a damn thing (much less acknowledging the problem.)

Nephilim Xeno Caldari Pimebeka Mining Corp	Posted - 2009.06.13 21:35:00 - [171] Originally by: M0rning5tar Why bother staying in such a buggy incomplete format? because 0.0 sucks even more and there are not many alternatives left but it really feels like ccp has completly abandoned FW, because every change they made since empyrean age just made FW worse one of biggest issue was the introduction of solo speedtanking in plexes before that people were at least forces to bring 2 ships to a plex, one for speedtanking and another one to run the timer that usually ended up in small plexing fleets where you could get small fights over plexes but atm its possible to speedtank any sized plex with a single t1 frig and that means no more fights, because if you enter the plex the speedtanker just warps off and goes to the next plex to speedtank all that makes more people join the big fleets on order to get a fight at all which brings us to the next big change ccp made to FW, they made it laggy! you can STILL have fun in FW but no where near as much fun as it was in the beginning FW definatly needs an overhaul and fixing this lag is the most importand issue atm
qanatas Minmatar Cadre Assault Force	Posted - 2009.06.13 22:55:00 - [172] This is totally ruining what could be very fun. 20 x 20 cruiser / bc fights etc, but you get lagged out and desynced.
BattleStar Crusader Amarr Absinthe Brothers Consortium	Posted - 2009.06.13 23:11:00 - [173] As every one knew CCP have not been informative and again have ignored the customer cry for help. :( sigh and they were doing so well
Aurora Nyx Caldari Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.06.14 17:05:00 - [174] Hello to our Minmatar/Amaarian brothers in their corner of FW. Having flown Minmatar for 3 weeks recently i can say without prejudice that they suffer exact same issues we do, and i mean exact same. The ocurrance of problems is almost predictable to the second.
Kuluskitur Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.06.14 17:20:00 - [175] Originally by: Nephilim Xeno one of biggest issue was the introduction of solo speedtanking in plexes before that people were at least forces to bring 2 ships to a plex, one for speedtanking and another one to run the timer that usually ended up in small plexing fleets where you could get small fights over plexes but atm its possible to speedtank any sized plex with a single t1 frig For extra fun, the solo speedtanking only works on Gallente and Amarr plexes, while it's impossible on Minmatar and Caldari plexes. The NPCs are severely disbalanced.
Chris Fierce Caldari NoD Imperium	Posted - 2009.06.14 21:33:00 - [176] Originally by: CCP RyanD Status remains the same: Actively being investigated by engineering and virtual world operations. As soon as we have a specific resolution we will update the community. RyanD The fix is simple, put everything back to how it was pre Quantum Rise --------------------------- I gashmoygadied her gaflavity with my googus and won a Hookbill.
Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.14 22:27:00 - [177] Originally by: Kuluskitur For extra fun, the solo speedtanking only works on Gallente and Amarr plexes, while it's impossible on Minmatar and Caldari plexes. The NPCs are severely disbalanced. For double extra fun, today I contested Amamake, without actually finishing the timer. At times it simply keeps running after as you warp out. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
M0rning5tar Slacker Industries The Boat Violencing Initiative	Posted - 2009.06.15 05:01:00 - [178] Originally by: Merdaneth Originally by: Kuluskitur For extra fun, the solo speedtanking only works on Gallente and Amarr plexes, while it's impossible on Minmatar and Caldari plexes. The NPCs are severely disbalanced. For double extra fun, today I contested Amamake, without actually finishing the timer. At times it simply keeps running after as you warp out. This is a hilarious bug and kudos for pointing it out... but to be honest, I don't give a crap if the plex's are bugged. Plexing is only there to generate fights for non RP'ers imho and the thing is is there to generate is impossible to enjoy as a simple 20 on 20 generates insanely unplayable lag in popular amarr/minmatar systems like amamake, kourmonen, etc. I'm an 04 player and I know how to minimize client side lag properly - it isn't my computer or the dozens and dozens of people that have reported this problem. Fix it, acknowledge it, SAY SOMETHING ABOUT IT for ****s sake CCP. Or just stay quiet and watch FW continue to die it's slow quiet death.
Nephilim Xeno Caldari Pimebeka Mining Corp	Posted - 2009.06.15 23:11:00 - [179] another day, another lag battle and ccp still does not care at all !
Meridius Dex Amarr Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2009.06.16 04:12:00 - [180] Originally by: Nephilim Xeno Originally by: M0rning5tar Why bother staying in such a buggy incomplete format? because 0.0 sucks even more and there are not many alternatives left ^^^ OMG THIS!! Seriously, I've been in a 0.0 alliance and hated all the bubbles, fleet blobs and POS warfare (talk about a poor excuse for a video game experience). I had a blast from the time I joined FW nearly a year ago and remember how great it was then. But without any incentives, along with the other crippling problems detailed herein, I've seen it slowly wither and fade. And I agree there certainly is something to the assertion that CCP panicked when they saw how many people got a taste of FW and preferred it over their precious null. Awfully odd how absolutely nothing has been done to correct a single problem with FW, yet all the devs (and now our ultra-crappy new CSM) can talk about is f---ing 0.0. Well, if this dies I'm sure I'll not be the only one looking somewhere else for my gaming entertainment. -- Meridius Dex Visit the Gunship Forums --

Toscaria	Posted - 2009.06.16 05:26:00 - [181] Originally by: Eggars An update on the progress of the investigation would be appreciated. This. Oh and Bump. Oh and transparency would be nice, too. CCP, you need to understand that we would stop complaining all the time if you would tell us SOMETHING about the problem and what you're doing about it.

CCP Wrangler	Posted - 2009.06.16 05:46:00 - [182] We have been testing this on Singularity and we have some leads, currently we're in the process of looking into the data we've gathered and following up on the aforementioned leads.

Allen Ramses Caldari Typo Corp	Posted - 2009.06.16 06:10:00 - [183] Originally by: CCP Wrangler We have been testing this on Singularity and we have some leads, currently we're in the process of looking into the data we've gathered and following up on the aforementioned leads. Facepalm Fine. I'm done trying to get ANY information out of CCP.

CCP Wrangler	Posted - 2009.06.16 06:24:00 - [184] Originally by: Allen Ramses Facepalm Fine. I'm done trying to get ANY information out of CCP. Any problem like this must be reported, reproduced/tested, solution found, solution tested, solution implemented (roughly). Right now we're in the reproduced/tested phase, hopefully moving towards solution found phase. That's the best way I can explain it and that's the information that exists right now. Wrangler Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us If it's stupid but works, it isn't stupid.

Reptzo Channel 4 News Team	Posted - 2009.06.16 06:25:00 - [185] Edited by: Reptzo on 16/06/2009 06:26:04 Wow, so I wrote something mean and evil, and you had responded appropriately in the time it took me to write it. So, thank you and sry.
M0rning5tar Slacker Industries The Boat Violencing Initiative	Posted - 2009.06.16 06:43:00 - [186] Originally by: CCP Wrangler We have been testing this on Singularity and we have some leads, currently we're in the process of looking into the data we've gathered and following up on the aforementioned leads. This isn't much - and you don't tell us anything really concrete (like what those leads are) but honestly, thanks for at least acknowledging you are looking into the problem. For all it's flaws, eve is a great game (still) and I appreciate you confirming that you folks have been working on it. That said, can we get any hints?
Bloody Rabbit	Posted - 2009.06.16 07:32:00 - [187] Originally by: M0rning5tar Originally by: CCP Wrangler We have been testing this on Singularity and we have some leads, currently we're in the process of looking into the data we've gathered and following up on the aforementioned leads. This isn't much - and you don't tell us anything really concrete (like what those leads are) but honestly, thanks for at least acknowledging you are looking into the problem. How much do you know about coding? Ok now ask yourself this, how much do you know about the code building CCP has been doing to the back end of their systems for the better part of 7 years? I would hope that CCP wouldn't post what is going on, just that they are trying to fix it. Its not like you ask your doctor to talk to you as a medical person so don't expect that from CCP to talk to you as if you are a programmer who knows their custom system.
qanatas Minmatar Cadre Assault Force	Posted - 2009.06.16 07:49:00 - [188] Originally by: M0rning5tar Originally by: CCP Wrangler We have been testing this on Singularity and we have some leads, currently we're in the process of looking into the data we've gathered and following up on the aforementioned leads. This isn't much - and you don't tell us anything really concrete (like what those leads are) but honestly, thanks for at least acknowledging you are looking into the problem. We got a bit more than this, apparently they're really working on it, reproduced it and got some leads. The somewhat curious software engineers amongst us might be wondering what those leads are, but I can understand the devs arent going to write an expose of 10pages about what those leads might be :). Anyway, I am glad we finally got some feedback, thx !
Nareg Maxence Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.16 08:01:00 - [189] CCP, do you still need logserver reports from TQ or are they not helpful?
Rashmika Clavain Gallente Revelation Space	Posted - 2009.06.16 08:40:00 - [190] Originally by: CCP Wrangler We have been testing this on Singularity and we have some leads, currently we're in the process of looking into the data we've gathered and following up on the aforementioned leads. That's looking positive then. Chaisng down bugs is a pain but I am glad you're getting somewhere with it. Do you still want log server reports from low sec fleet battles? Removed. Please keep your EVE signature related to your EVE persona and not that of a real life politician. Navigator

Aurora Nyx Caldari Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.06.16 10:05:00 - [191] Originally by: CCP Wrangler Originally by: Allen Ramses Facepalm Fine. I'm done trying to get ANY information out of CCP. Any problem like this must be reported, reproduced/tested, solution found, solution tested, solution implemented (roughly). Right now we're in the reproduced/tested phase, hopefully moving towards solution found phase. That's the best way I can explain it and that's the information that exists right now. I started this thread to highlight the lack of action. I have made sure this thread hasn't died to highlight CCP's lack of reporting back to us. Essentially, i am grateful that you are "still on it", however, you are no further down the line with a solution than you were 6-8 months ago. Thanks for showing you actually read these forums, but please, give a swift kick to those who need it, before FW and assorted 0.0 systems implode and people leave the game in numbers.
Nephilim Xeno Caldari Pimebeka Mining Corp	Posted - 2009.06.16 11:11:00 - [192] reproducing it should be no problem, i am sure a lot of milita members would offer their help to reproduce it on either the test server or TQ, aslong as it helps fixing it faster and bringing fun battles back to FW ! but at least we finally got some response
Nareg Maxence Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.16 11:18:00 - [193] Originally by: Nephilim Xeno reproducing it should be no problem, i am sure a lot of milita members would offer their help to reproduce it on either the test server or TQ, aslong as it helps fixing it faster and bringing fun battles back to FW ! but at least we finally got some response We already know that we can reproduce it. It already has been reproduced, as CCP had previously acknowledged in this thread. Nothing new has been added today! I guess you fell asleep reading the thread or something.
Serpents smile	Posted - 2009.06.16 11:33:00 - [194] Originally by: Nareg Maxence I guess you fell asleep reading the thread or something. You're today's sarcasm cookie winner!
Nephilim Xeno Caldari Pimebeka Mining Corp	Posted - 2009.06.16 12:24:00 - [195] but still would like to know what ccp did when the lag vanished for a few weeks after apo just to come back even worse than before
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.06.16 13:57:00 - [196] Originally by: Nephilim Xeno but still would like to know what ccp did when the lag vanished for a few weeks after apo just to come back even worse than before That may be more down to player behaviour than anything. For a few weeks after the patch was released, everyone and their spacedog was in a wormhole. I didn't see any fleet action for ages, so I guess there was little chance for the bug to happen.
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.06.16 14:17:00 - [197] Originally by: qanatas The somewhat curious software engineers amongst us might be wondering what those leads are, but I can understand the devs arent going to write an expose of 10pages about what those leads might be :). I don't think anybody expects a wall of text, but a few metrics would be nice, if nothing else. Perhaps "x bugreports filed" or "x number of solutions attempted without success". It might not sound overley encouraging, but those ticking numbers would at least remind people that the problem was being worked on. Some people have mentioned that this may be down to secstatus calculations and the prioritising of processes, which is why the drones could be active as normal while the desynch is in full flow. Maybe it is time to rethink how to calculate secstatus, de-prioritising it until after the main battle information has been processed (being difficult to track due to the heat of the action). If this causes problems with the pirates, then maybe the security penalty for shooting anyone lower than 0.0, but higher than -5 could be removed, thus allowing open season on any pirate. I don't know how feasible that would be, and I'm sure someone will shoot me down in flames, but it's something to think about. Also, if CCP are worried about 0.0 losing out to FW, why not start working towards incorporating the two concepts? Stretch the FW territory out into 0.0, and allow the introduction of super capitals into the mix. Perhaps this would be a way for CCP to get alliances involved too.
Nephilim Xeno Caldari Pimebeka Mining Corp	Posted - 2009.06.16 21:22:00 - [198] Originally by: Ratchman Originally by: Nephilim Xeno but still would like to know what ccp did when the lag vanished for a few weeks after apo just to come back even worse than before That may be more down to player behaviour than anything. For a few weeks after the patch was released, everyone and their spacedog was in a wormhole. I didn't see any fleet action for ages, so I guess there was little chance for the bug to happen. not really we still had quite big fleets (40 vs 40 and bigger) without any desyncs and almost no module lag for a while atm you even have massive desyncs with 20 vs 20
Ankhesentapemkah Gallente State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.06.17 13:52:00 - [199] Originally by: CCP Wrangler Any problem like this must be reported, reproduced/tested, solution found, solution tested, solution implemented (roughly). Right now we're in the reproduced/tested phase, hopefully moving towards solution found phase. That's the best way I can explain it and that's the information that exists right now. Wrangler, the reason why the community is so upset is because this has been going for 8 months now. Back in January CCP launched a massive test effort in which many FW players participated. Then there was a comment that they had enough data and that the solution would be implemented "Right after Apocrypha". Now CCP seems to be back at the data gathering stage, so no surprise people are asking questions here wondering what the heck CCP has been doing the past 5 months if they weren't in the solution phase. Have we been deceived back in January or what? I don't think the players want more vague promises, as we've already had a lot of those since november. I would like to see some concrete answers and proper communication here, make a devblog about it or something, the players would be a lot more content if they get an insight in what's REALLY going on behind the screens. Right now it's far too much black-boxing.
Raimo Gallente Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.06.17 15:45:00 - [200] This is a serious issue, I'm glad to hear that it's being worked on but tbh I am very reluctant to believe it will actually get a fix until CCP has something more concrete to show. TBH a dev blog about their progress (or lack thereof) just about now would be pretty awesome.

Droog 1 Black Rise Inbreds	Posted - 2009.06.17 16:05:00 - [201] Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Originally by: CCP Wrangler Any problem like this must be reported, reproduced/tested, solution found, solution tested, solution implemented (roughly). Right now we're in the reproduced/tested phase, hopefully moving towards solution found phase. That's the best way I can explain it and that's the information that exists right now. Wrangler, the reason why the community is so upset is because this has been going for 8 months now. Back in January CCP launched a massive test effort in which many FW players participated. Then there was a comment that they had enough data and that the solution would be implemented "Right after Apocrypha". Now CCP seems to be back at the data gathering stage, so no surprise people are asking questions here wondering what the heck CCP has been doing the past 5 months if they weren't in the solution phase. well said.
Sahaquiel Faust Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2009.06.17 18:22:00 - [202] Mixed Metaphor quit FW in part because of the lag issues and in part because of the imbalanced game mechanics and the disparity this creates between the Gallente and Caldari militias, and would require CCP to address both problems before it considered returning
M0rning5tar Slacker Industries The Boat Violencing Initiative	Posted - 2009.06.17 22:26:00 - [203] Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Originally by: CCP Wrangler Any problem like this must be reported, reproduced/tested, solution found, solution tested, solution implemented (roughly). Right now we're in the reproduced/tested phase, hopefully moving towards solution found phase. That's the best way I can explain it and that's the information that exists right now. Wrangler, the reason why the community is so upset is because this has been going for 8 months now. Back in January CCP launched a massive test effort in which many FW players participated. Then there was a comment that they had enough data and that the solution would be implemented "Right after Apocrypha". Now CCP seems to be back at the data gathering stage, so no surprise people are asking questions here wondering what the heck CCP has been doing the past 5 months if they weren't in the solution phase. Have we been deceived back in January or what? I don't think the players want more vague promises, as we've already had a lot of those since november. I would like to see some concrete answers and proper communication here, make a devblog about it or something, the players would be a lot more content if they get an insight in what's REALLY going on behind the screens. Right now it's far too much black-boxing. I want to have sex with this post.
Nephilim Xeno Caldari Pimebeka Mining Corp	Posted - 2009.06.18 22:11:00 - [204] another 20 vs 20 fight completly desynced and lagged -.- also i heared from people that are active in non FW low sec that bigger fights there have far less lag than the fights in FW low sec can anyone confirm that 20 vs 20 fights in non FW low sec works better?
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.06.19 08:39:00 - [205] Originally by: Nephilim Xeno another 20 vs 20 fight completly desynced and lagged -.- also i heared from people that are active in non FW low sec that bigger fights there have far less lag than the fights in FW low sec can anyone confirm that 20 vs 20 fights in non FW low sec works better? Yes, they do. However, I believe the desynchs can occur if a pirate fleet attacks a militia fleet.
Nephilim Xeno Caldari Pimebeka Mining Corp	Posted - 2009.06.19 09:05:00 - [206] then it cant be that hard to find the problem if we can limit in on FW related code... some people already said that it might be related to FW standing calculations and i also think there is a high possibility that thats the cause just wonder if the person in charge of fixing it is even reading this thread maybe he would have already found the problem if he did!
Kane Starkiller	Posted - 2009.06.19 14:44:00 - [207] Giving this my support and bump. I did FW for about a month before the crippling lag ****ed me right off. That and having to run missions once a week to help pay for it kinda suck. But seriously, how long does it take to fix a problem that has been going on for months??
Aurora Nyx Caldari Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.06.19 14:48:00 - [208] Originally by: Kane Starkiller Giving this my support and bump. I did FW for about a month before the crippling lag ****ed me right off. That and having to run missions once a week to help pay for it kinda suck. But seriously, how long does it take to fix a problem that has been going on for months?? Thanks dude. And as far as paying for ships goes.... fly T1, some ships can actually make you money through insurance Also, i believe it's very nearly 2 months since i started this thread, and still we have nothing. /smuglook
Ortos Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.06.19 16:15:00 - [209] this issue should have been fixed a long time ago. get it done
Nephilim Xeno Caldari Pimebeka Mining Corp	Posted - 2009.06.21 00:21:00 - [210] Originally by: Ortos this issue should have been fixed a long time ago. get it done indeed

Inora Aknaria	Posted - 2009.06.21 20:26:00 - [211] Perhaps while ccp is still coming up with a solution to fix the lag problem, they can start reimbursing ships lost due to some epicly bad lag.
Simone denAdel Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.06.21 22:10:00 - [212] What ever happened with this? http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1002943 I thought you guys were on to something back then? Originally by: CCP Soundwave I would like to thank everyone who has helped us with this issue. We are going to wrap up Apocrypha, and then we can hopefully announce a fix soon afterwards.
Toscaria	Posted - 2009.06.22 00:56:00 - [213] Originally by: Inora Aknaria Perhaps while ccp is still coming up with a solution to fix the lag problem, they can start reimbursing ships lost due to some epicly bad lag. I tried petitioning some of my losses, but as the "logs showing nothing," the GM denied my request. He was very nice about it, I'll give him credit, and he apologized for the issue and for the loss, but I still sit here with lost assets because of something that was completely out of my hands.
Aurora Nyx Caldari Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.06.23 04:40:00 - [214] Edited by: Aurora Nyx on 23/06/2009 04:42:11 Originally by: Toscaria Originally by: Inora Aknaria Perhaps while ccp is still coming up with a solution to fix the lag problem, they can start reimbursing ships lost due to some epicly bad lag. I tried petitioning some of my losses, but as the "logs showing nothing," the GM denied my request. He was very nice about it, I'll give him credit, and he apologized for the issue and for the loss, but I still sit here with lost assets because of something that was completely out of my hands. Mostly the logs show things still happen in the correct order, sometimes it's all messed up. I've had 4 ships returned to me over the course of a year, and i'd say that i'd lost more than 60 in lag-fests. Less than 1 in 10, better than nothing, however, 0 ships lost in lag-fests would be even better.
Gervais Zhang Strix Armaments and Defence	Posted - 2009.06.24 12:34:00 - [215] Patiently awaiting resolution. Strix is recruiting Federation patriots.
Mitch Taylor Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.06.24 13:06:00 - [216] http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1105324 Didn't see this before posting, my crazy rantings can be thrown into this mix. FIX IT! The Dark is Rising... Fight my Brute!
Aurora Nyx Caldari Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.06.25 08:30:00 - [217] Originally by: Mitch Taylor http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1105324 Didn't see this before posting, my crazy rantings can be thrown into this mix. FIX IT! Hey Mitch, hope all is well with you guys. Seems like 2 months since this thread was started.... oh wait, it very nearly is, and they STILL have given us nothing more than "We're working on it". Other FW lag posts are springing up now, thanks to those with the patience to post on this broken forum. Request to all pilots in FW systems.... please lend us your support on this issue, it's not going to get better if CCP leave it at it's current priority.
Kai Misu Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.06.25 09:55:00 - [218] /signed Agreed, I love FW but why should we be forced to endure the unplayable lag while others in 0.0 can enjoy lag free battles. Cummon CCP FIX THIS or at least give us some concrete evidence that you are working on it and intend to solve it!!!!!!
NeoTheo Dark Materials Heretic Nation	Posted - 2009.06.25 10:49:00 - [219] Originally by: Kai Misu /signed Agreed, I love FW but why should we be forced to endure the unplayable lag while others in 0.0 can enjoy lag free battles. Cummon CCP FIX THIS or at least give us some concrete evidence that you are working on it and intend to solve it!!!!!! its certainly a weird problem, i am a pirate and often get enganged by FW blobs, soons as that happens i suffer unplayable lag. its getting beyond a joke. /Theo
Droog 1 Black Rise Inbreds	Posted - 2009.06.25 12:10:00 - [220] CCP have had the logs from the 'lag spectacular' for 4 months. They promised to look into this after Apocrypha was launched. Still waiting.

Lt Mooncat	Posted - 2009.06.25 12:22:00 - [221] http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/4229/fffffffffffff.jpg FW.
Conwakleferibok	Posted - 2009.06.25 12:56:00 - [222] Edited by: Conwakleferibok on 25/06/2009 12:56:48 Any day now I'm sure.
Irida Mershkov Gallente War is Bliss	Posted - 2009.06.25 13:27:00 - [223] Originally by: Lt Mooncat http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/4229/fffffffffffff.jpg FW. Well with that many clones of targets, it's not like you can miss! right?
Lt Mooncat	Posted - 2009.06.26 15:43:00 - [224] Apoc 1.3 Patch Notes no love for fw in this patch
Aurora Nyx Caldari Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.06.26 18:23:00 - [225] Originally by: Lt Mooncat Apoc 1.3 Patch Notes no love for fw in this patch Graphics Multiple NPCÆs have had missing guns added to their ships. Now they look much cooler before you blow them up. This is so much more important, along with all the other changes that don't effect me or my FW commrades in any way, yet again. Seriously, CCP, fix the lag.
qanatas Minmatar Tribal Core	Posted - 2009.06.26 21:08:00 - [226] Very disappointing. And to tout the new patch as 'fantastic' on the frontpage ...
Hotep Shakkara Amarr	Posted - 2009.06.26 22:40:00 - [227] Bull** patch! Serious exploits untended for months, but no, missing turrets really are the **!
Lt Mooncat	Posted - 2009.06.27 10:15:00 - [228] Edited by: Lt Mooncat on 27/06/2009 10:21:49 Edited by: Lt Mooncat on 27/06/2009 10:21:24 Essential reading for new players. They should expect a bug / exploit filled lag fest with no fix in sight. Also, what happened to this. Following up on the Empyrean Age release, we're working on improvements to the Factional Warfare mechanics to fill out the design and add more options, possibilities and rewards to participating players CCP September 2008
Ankhesentapemkah Gallente State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.06.27 14:11:00 - [229] Originally by: Lt Mooncat Following up on the Empyrean Age release, we're working on improvements to the Factional Warfare mechanics to fill out the design and add more options, possibilities and rewards to participating players CCP September 2008 Empyrian Age Launch Page "Militia pilots that successfully scan for a complex and hold it uncontested for a set amount of time will claim it for their faction, and be rewarded with corporate standing-as well as more tangible benefits." CCP June 2008
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.27 20:22:00 - [230] w00t militia fights. You have soem people, you fight. You are in a scimitar on gate repping, so you can always jump through. Getting some minor damage, nothing special, shields stay at 90%+ (one flight of light t1 drones according to my logs). A few missiles hit you, but still shields are easily holding. And then suddenly your scimitar explodes, you are in pod, cant select warp to since it isnt in the drop down menu for a stargate 30au away (only add waypoint), and your pod is gone. So afterwards you check your logs, add all the damage, and your scimi should have still been there with 60-70% shields left. Welcome to faction war

Nephilim Xeno Caldari Pimebeka Mining Corp	Posted - 2009.06.28 23:23:00 - [231] so is there any chance that this is getting fixed once this new patch is out? since there is nothing in the patch notes it does not seem to get fixed in this patch...
Droog 1 Black Rise Inbreds	Posted - 2009.06.29 12:35:00 - [232] Still waiting.
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.06.29 14:09:00 - [233] Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Originally by: Lt Mooncat Following up on the Empyrean Age release, we're working on improvements to the Factional Warfare mechanics to fill out the design and add more options, possibilities and rewards to participating players CCP September 2008 Empyrian Age Launch Page "Militia pilots that successfully scan for a complex and hold it uncontested for a set amount of time will claim it for their faction, and be rewarded with corporate standing-as well as more tangible benefits." CCP June 2008 So, a whole year now with little more than a "we're looking into it". I didn't expect this to be a quick fix, but I did expect to be regularly informed as to the progress. You can't go for too long without doing anything, because people will start abandoning it, perhaps even the game. There are plenty of people who have taken to FW because it fulfils their PvP needs without all of the 0.0 politicking. If they can't get it, they are liable to leave. It's only the fact that people really love this game that they have been as patient as they have, but sooner or later, you will start seeing numbers going down if nothing is done.
Snake O'Donell Gallente Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.06.29 14:25:00 - [234] This is getting silly. Maybe CCP will fix this **** when RKK comes down.

CCP Ytterbium	Posted - 2009.06.29 17:16:00 - [235] Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Factional Warfare [...] more tangible benefits. Action stations, action stations, dev blog incoming. I repeat, dev blog incoming, set condition one throughout the ship. This is not a drill. PS: Just let us time to finish it first, so can't say when it is going to be ready

Snake O'Donell Gallente Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.06.29 17:19:00 - [236] Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Factional Warfare [...] more tangible benefits. Action stations, action stations, dev blog incoming. I repeat, dev blog incoming, set condition one throughout the ship. This is not a drill. PS: Just let us time to finish it first, so can't say when it is going to be ready I hope lag will be fixed before tangible benefits! But happy for dev post anyways. Please keep us informed!
Vixa Ambrodel Minmatar CrayC Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.29 17:27:00 - [237] Originally by: CCP Ytterbium PS: Just let us time to finish it first, so can't say when it is going to be ready The answer is SoonÖ And you've kinda had a year to write the dev blog --- Originally by: Vixa Ambrodel If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen or fit another thermal hardener!
Dictum Factum Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.06.29 17:28:00 - [238] Originally by: CCP Ytterbium PS: Just let us time to finish it first, so can't say when it is going to be ready Never heard that before. Fight my Brute!
Nicklaus Klaus'nik Gallente Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.06.29 18:16:00 - [239] Originally by: Aurora Nyx Originally by: Lt Mooncat Apoc 1.3 Patch Notes no love for fw in this patch Graphics Multiple NPCÆs have had missing guns added to their ships. Now they look much cooler before you blow them up. This is so much more important, along with all the other changes that don't effect me or my FW commrades in any way, yet again. Seriously, CCP, fix the lag. so they fixed NPC turrets.. how about players' ships and Light Electron Blaster IIs. You know what I'm talking about. Invisible turrets. And I care not about Dev Post. I only care about Dev Fix. Years in the making guys. Cmon. I know FW is a low priority to you, it's obvious, but you could at last give us a reach around. The Darkness is Rising
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.06.29 19:37:00 - [240] Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Factional Warfare [...] more tangible benefits. Action stations, action stations, dev blog incoming. I repeat, dev blog incoming, set condition one throughout the ship. This is not a drill. PS: Just let us time to finish it first, so can't say when it is going to be ready Serious if that dev blog doesnt include something about lag i am going to sell your fedos to amarr slavers who will feed their slaves with them.

FOl2TY8 Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2009.06.29 19:55:00 - [241] Originally by: Lt Mooncat http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/4229/fffffffffffff.jpg FW. Yeah that was good times... I think. ---------- This post brought to you by the worst PVP'er in Eve
qanatas Minmatar Tribal Core	Posted - 2009.06.29 20:45:00 - [242] Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Factional Warfare [...] more tangible benefits. Action stations, action stations, dev blog incoming. I repeat, dev blog incoming, set condition one throughout the ship. This is not a drill. PS: Just let us time to finish it first, so can't say when it is going to be ready Ah that's good news ! Looking forward to that :).
london Gallente Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.06.29 21:49:00 - [243] Originally by: Nicklaus Klaus'nik so they fixed NPC turrets.. how about players' ships and Light Electron Blaster IIs. You know what I'm talking about. Invisible turrets. And I care not about Dev Post. I only care about Dev Fix. Years in the making guys. Cmon. I know FW is a low priority to you, it's obvious, but you could at last give us a reach around. The reach around was promised long ago. :(
Unfamed II Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.06.30 00:05:00 - [244] bamp for no justice Originally by: Sandslinger of CA So this wasn't a straightoff logoffski from our point of view, rather a tactical manoeuvre
Aurora Nyx Caldari Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.06.30 06:33:00 - [245] Originally by: CCP Ytterbium Action stations, action stations, dev blog incoming. I repeat, dev blog incoming, set condition one throughout the ship. This is not a drill. PS: Just let us time to finish it first, so can't say when it is going to be ready [:p /me crosses fingers
igil	Posted - 2009.07.01 05:05:00 - [246] http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=672
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.07.01 07:11:00 - [247] So this means they have no clue what is causing it (how hard can it be? There shouldnt be that much code active for FW in low sec)
Aurora Nyx Caldari Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.07.02 09:49:00 - [248] May 2nd 2009 - This thread was started. July 2nd 2009 (Today) - Are the Devs responsible getting any closer ? Feel free to release a devblog, post a comment, or just say 'Hi' to commemorate 2 months of this thread.
Ankhesentapemkah Gallente State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.07.02 11:05:00 - [249] Well, at least they seem to have finally dedicated a swathe of resources to the problem, judging from the devblog (see link a few posts above mine). That and FW getting some reward for the pew-pew part of it! I think CCP is back on track. ---
Sylar Darkayen	Posted - 2009.07.02 11:13:00 - [250] Originally by: Merdaneth This is not a problem with load on the node This is not a problem with load on the node This is not a problem with load on the node (yes, this bears repeating) A 50 vs. 50 pirate fleet battle is no problem in these systems, only a 50 vs. 50 FW fleet fight is a problem. Obviously, there is a bug in the FW code. The only major area where FW code concerning fights differs from non-FW fights is how standing and sec loss is determined. I have also noticed that if I do not shoot anything, I never have much problems with lag, but as soon as I shoot or destroy a hostile, the desync-type lag might hit me. Not always, but odds increase as numbers increase. I extremely highly doubt that the fact your in a militia is causing the lag. In the end, it's nothing different than a 50 vs. 50 fight anywhere. Null-sec, low-sec, high-sec. Most likely it all leads to the same method call. Except for the fact that standings get calculated differently, for which I find it extremely hard to believe that this is causing lag. You are so convinced it is not a problem with the load on a node. Please show me evidence.

qanatas Minmatar Tribal Core	Posted - 2009.07.02 20:17:00 - [251] Edited by: qanatas on 02/07/2009 20:17:20 Originally by: Sylar Darkayen I extremely highly doubt that the fact your in a militia is causing the lag. In the end, it's nothing different than a 50 vs. 50 fight anywhere. Null-sec, low-sec, high-sec. Most likely it all leads to the same method call. Except for the fact that standings get calculated differently, for which I find it extremely hard to believe that this is causing lag. Yes it is FW lag. Can't even do 15vs15 and you desync. And it's not your regular module lag. You totally desync with the server. One moment, you're fine, next moment you hear the insurance email sound. Then you wake up in your clone and the screen says you're still taking damage. Sounds like fun huh ?
Ratchman	Posted - 2009.07.03 08:23:00 - [252] I'm kind of hoping that the new loyalty points will be divided up between all those people on the kill mail, thus encouraging small-scale battles and solo PvP. This would help bring the scale down, where lag is less likely to happen, but it still doesn't resolve the main issue. If it is indeed things like the security status checks that slow this down, perhaps Concord can declare open season on all pirates (for the militia), which should help cut down a little on the calculations needed. There are far too many pirates in the FW areas anyway, so giving the factions the ability to open fire on them freely would help slightly. If CCP truly have no idea what is causing the lag, they should now be trying a number of different options (say like the one I posited above) and see if they have any effect at all. If they don't, they can always revert the change after. This is better than sifting through thousands of logs with no idea. At least they would be doing some empirical research, and we could see something going on, even if it doesn't immediately work.
Aurora Nyx Caldari Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.07.05 21:31:00 - [253] Originally by: Ratchman I'm kind of hoping that the new loyalty points will be divided up between all those people on the kill mail, thus encouraging small-scale battles and solo PvP. This would help bring the scale down, where lag is less likely to happen, but it still doesn't resolve the main issue. If it is indeed things like the security status checks that slow this down, perhaps Concord can declare open season on all pirates (for the militia), which should help cut down a little on the calculations needed. There are far too many pirates in the FW areas anyway, so giving the factions the ability to open fire on them freely would help slightly. If CCP truly have no idea what is causing the lag, they should now be trying a number of different options (say like the one I posited above) and see if they have any effect at all. If they don't, they can always revert the change after. This is better than sifting through thousands of logs with no idea. At least they would be doing some empirical research, and we could see something going on, even if it doesn't immediately work. Some nice ideas there Ratch, although CCP seem to want to forget about this again.
Simone denAdel Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.07.05 21:54:00 - [254] Originally by: Sylar Darkayen I extremely highly doubt that the fact your in a militia is causing the lag. In the end, it's nothing different than a 50 vs. 50 fight anywhere. Null-sec, low-sec, high-sec. Most likely it all leads to the same method call. Except for the fact that standings get calculated differently, for which I find it extremely hard to believe that this is causing lag. You are so convinced it is not a problem with the load on a node. Please show me evidence. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1002943 Originally by: CCP Soundwave Originally by: gordon cain Does this involve gun lag in fleet fight also? Or only when Faction warfare is around? G We're trying to work out an isolated issue related to Faction Warfare, so only that for now. Also, DevBlog on Apoc 1.5: "Factional Warfare improvements... We have been closely monitoring reports on lag in Factional Warfare, analyzing the network behaviour, player behaviour and scrutinizing code. The reported lag does not always occur and is elusive to track down and resolve. We currently have engineers allocated to the resolution of the problem, working tightly with the quality assurance department and our bughunters."
Aurora Nyx Caldari Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.07.06 11:07:00 - [255] Originally by: Simone denAdel Also, DevBlog on Apoc 1.5: "Factional Warfare improvements... We have been closely monitoring reports on lag in Factional Warfare, analyzing the network behaviour, player behaviour and scrutinizing code. The reported lag does not always occur and is elusive to track down and resolve. We currently have engineers allocated to the resolution of the problem, working tightly with the quality assurance department and our bughunters." This has been the official response since October 2008.

CCP Wrangler	Posted - 2009.07.06 13:13:00 - [256] An experimental fix for the lag experienced by some Factional Warfare pilots has been released. This is not the final fix, only an effort to root out the underlying issue. Because this scenario is virtually impossible to reproduce on our test servers we’re asking for your help. The change to the EVE code is not active by default. To activate the new code you’ll need to add a line to one of the EVE settings files called prefs.ini. To do that you can… Use Windows Explorer to search for the file “prefs.ini”. Make sure to enable searching in system folders and hidden folders. Once found open the file and add the line “ksequencer=1” to the end. Save and close the file. EVE will now use the updated code when it is next run. If you’re using a Mac then use the Finder to search for this file. Or you could use Windows Explorer to navigate to ..\Users\<username>\AppData\Local\CCP\EVE\c_program_files_ccp_eve_tranquility\settings in Windows Vista, ..\Documents and Settings\<username>\Local Settings\Application Data\CCP\EVE\c_program_files_ccp_eve_tranquility\settings in Windows XP (Might be slightly different depending on your installation). You will need to have show hidden files and folders turned on to be able to do this. In that directory edit the prefs.ini file as in option A. Once that line is added to the file you will be running on the new experimental code. Without that EVE Factional Warfare should be the same as always. Of course, if you experience problems you can simply remove that line and go back to normal. Either way, please provide feedback on your experiences with Factional Warfare lag in this thread after applying the experimental fix. If all goes well we should be able to develop, test and deploy a final fix very shortly. We’re eager to hear from you and to get this issue resolved as soon as possible. Wrangler Senior Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us If it's stupid but works, it isn't stupid.

Maria Kalista Amarr Emerald Forest Securities	Posted - 2009.07.06 13:35:00 - [257] Edited by: Maria Kalista on 06/07/2009 13:42:29 Edited by: Maria Kalista on 06/07/2009 13:41:00 Originally by: CCP Wrangler If youÆre using a Mac then use the Finder to search for this file. (cough) That doesn't work. Hint: next time ask Monseigneur Casqade. Mac zealots the prefs.ini file is located here: /Users/<username>/Library/Preferences/EVE Online Preferences/p_drive/Local Settings/Application Data/CCP/EVE/c_program_files_ccp_eve_tranquility/settings Edit: or under Finder press shift + apple key + g (without the +'s) then paste in: ~/Library/Preferences/EVE Online Preferences/p_drive/Local Settings/Application Data/CCP/EVE/c_program_files_ccp_eve_tranquility/settings/ Originally by: Jacharian This sounds like a bad idea. I'm in.

CCP Wrangler	Posted - 2009.07.06 14:30:00 - [258] Thanks, we've clarified the instructions. Wrangler Senior Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us If it's stupid but works, it isn't stupid.

Zyck Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.07.06 14:42:00 - [259] Edited by: Zyck on 06/07/2009 14:43:10 Wrangler I think your fix needs a sticky and its own thread, no one's going to see it here. Edit: And when I put the line into the vista "run" box it comes up with an error saying that path doesn't exist :/
Maria Kalista Amarr Emerald Forest Securities	Posted - 2009.07.06 14:47:00 - [260] Originally by: Zyck Edited by: Zyck on 06/07/2009 14:43:10 Wrangler I think your fix needs a sticky and its own thread, no one's going to see it here. Edit: And when I put the line into the vista "run" box it comes up with an error saying that path doesn't exist :/ Second that and: Heck its even worth a big news item. Originally by: Jacharian This sounds like a bad idea. I'm in.


CCP Hypnotic	Posted - 2009.07.06 14:47:00 - [261] Originally by: Zyck And when I put the line into the vista "run" box it comes up with an error saying that path doesn't exist :/ If you installed EVE into a different directory from the default then that text you pasted will not be correct. The "c_program_files_ccp_eve_tranquility" part is probably not right for your specific installation. Just paste "%LOCALAPPDATA%\CCP\EVE\" (without quotes) and navigate manually from there.

Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2009.07.06 14:56:00 - [262] NEEDS GLUE. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 5JUL09
Aurora Nyx Caldari Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.07.06 17:29:00 - [263] Wrangler and co.... I'm crossing my fingers, toes, legs, arms, and ********* in hope of even a 20% reduction in lag. But 1 thing i will say before i try......... thankyou for at least giving us something to go on.
Zyck Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.07.06 18:06:00 - [264] Edited by: Zyck on 06/07/2009 18:06:46 Originally by: CCP Hypnotic Originally by: Zyck And when I put the line into the vista "run" box it comes up with an error saying that path doesn't exist :/ If you installed EVE into a different directory from the default then that text you pasted will not be correct. The "c_program_files_ccp_eve_tranquility" part is probably not right for your specific installation. Just paste "%LOCALAPPDATA%\CCP\EVE\" (without quotes) and navigate manually from there. Thanks, that worked. Crossing my fingers that this works, going to be a major fight today in taff.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.07.06 18:43:00 - [265] Looking forward to hear from the guys in taff if it works.
igil	Posted - 2009.07.06 20:11:00 - [266] Edited by: igil on 06/07/2009 20:17:08 Windows Vista Run command is not locating this string. I've tried locating it manually without any success. Edit: I did install to the default directory.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.07.06 20:51:00 - [267] Are you sure you are copying the correct part? So without the quotation marks? For manually locating, for me it directed to: C:\Users\[user name]\AppData\Local\CCP\EVE\c_program_files_ccp_eve_tranquility\settings (also all under vista)
DonSailieri Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.07.06 20:52:00 - [268] works reasonably well - could do better tho. at least it prevented utter desync for me.
igil	Posted - 2009.07.06 20:55:00 - [269] I did get it to work. For Vista 64bit users, you need to remember that EVE is installed in "Program Files(x86)".
Dongo Lars Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.07.06 21:04:00 - [270] Desync wasnt that bad for me with the fix this time. Especially smaller skirmishes were no-problem. Later on got quite bad though... Maybe it had something to do with 500 people in local though Needs more testing, so far looking promising Carpe Diem !

Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.07.06 21:09:00 - [271] If there were 500 people in local and a warp to a planet resulted you ended up at the correct planet and not desynced to another planet (or other system/galaxy), it must have worked ;)
Arban Staz	Posted - 2009.07.06 21:11:00 - [272] Eve hangs on startup with 100% CPU use when I set ksequence=1. Remove the new setting and it starts normally. This is on a MacBook Pro, 2.16GHz, MacOS X 10.5.7. Eve is set to start up in windowed mode (I haven't been able to run fullscreen since Apoc was released, but that has never bothered me).
Zyck Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.07.06 21:19:00 - [273] I did the fix and got no lag at all today in Taff. Between Minmatar + allies and hostiles, local was up over 400 and I had no lag. I got a small amount of lag when NC hot dropped in probably around 70 cap ships but nothing game breaking. Either I got really lucky, or great fix.
Jasmine Chen	Posted - 2009.07.06 21:19:00 - [274] I applied fix and performance improved dramatically. This was the biggest fleet fight I've ever been in (ZOMG) and although there were some sticky moments with slow response, it was far better than I would expect with.. 500 in Taff local? or more (I personally saw 460, heard reports of over 500)
BacardiDesire Caldari The 8th Order	Posted - 2009.07.06 21:57:00 - [275] posting in future ''thank you ccp'' thread no lag here whatsoever, only a little module lag MIGHT THIS BE THE EPIC FIX?? all i want is some cake.
Lt Pizi Gallente Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.07.06 22:20:00 - [276] Thank you CCP i got "Entering Space 9 out of 10 fights with 30 vs 30 and with the fix there was a HUGE fight today it was fantastic , small modul lag but thats aceptable D-R is recruiting
Kaliba Mort Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.07.06 22:44:00 - [277] Before applying the fix, I got desynced warping out of a fight, though I did end up in the correct place. Somewhat "laggy" before applying the fix. I then applied the fix and it was a little better. Didn't desync again, though opportunity for fighting was diminished after local went up to 500 people. One problem I've noticed, mwd would not turn off (flashy red) for multiple cycles. I had the mwd bonus but cap wasn't used during that time. So there was some module desync there with the fix too, but it corrected itself.
Snake O'Donell Gallente Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.07.06 22:59:00 - [278] Had a great fight in Taff today. No lag expect for the occasional module lag, and graphical lag. Whatever you did CCP, it worked. Took you 8 months to do it but whatever. I also like that the dev stopped by Taff local today. Glad you go the word. Question though, was the node reinforced or not?
Sophie Starsparrow Minmatar Cwn Annwn Clan	Posted - 2009.07.07 00:35:00 - [279] Mac version of the fix killed eve for me and I had to go back and delete it :(
Lissome Elan Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2009.07.07 02:47:00 - [280] Eve does not launch with the fix under mac, running a 15" Intel Core 2 Duo.

Kamikazee Joe Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.07.07 03:01:00 - [281] Originally by: Zyck I did the fix and got no lag at all today in Taff. Between Minmatar + allies and hostiles, local was up over 400 and I had no lag. I got a small amount of lag when NC hot dropped in probably around 70 cap ships but nothing game breaking. Either I got really lucky, or great fix. +1!!! Was the best large fleet battle in terms of lag i've ever been in. Even when my ship was destroyed at the station battle i managed to see my shields go down, then my armor a bit more slowly, then my stucture melt, as opposed to the usual "omg i'm in my pod" suddenly lol. Like Zyke mention it wasn't until we were all at our pos and NC dropped their cap fleet and deployed approximately eleventy billion fighters that it got a little laggy, but even then we were all still able to warp in a timely fashion. Good job CCP, made it a lot more fun then usual, i hope ur on to something.
Aurora Nyx Caldari Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.07.07 11:41:00 - [282] Yeah, Taff last night, module lag was all that most users with the activated code got, myself included. That may have been good luck on my part, as CCP pointed out the lag doesnt manifest itself evenly. Also i think we broke local.... low-sec isn't supposed to to have 400 people in it, let alone 70-odd cap ships, lol. Will be nice to see how the code handles a 30-30 in the Nourv/Villore pipeline, but atm i have to say it's looking promising. Potentially a 'thankyou' coming up

CCP Hypnotic	Posted - 2009.07.07 15:44:00 - [283] Thanks guys for the great feedback. Keep it coming, we read it all, and are continuing to work on narrowing this issue down. With your help we've made more progress in two days then we could have in six months on the test server. I'd love to hear from more of you, spread the word.

Droog 1 Black Rise Inbreds	Posted - 2009.07.07 16:28:00 - [284] Edited by: Droog 1 on 07/07/2009 16:29:29 Copy and pasted from here . Details on how to run the Logserver. Logserver 1. Before launching EVE, go to your EVE folder, and open logserver.exe. 2. When logserver is open, either go to the file tab and select ônew workspaceö, or simply press ctrl + w. 3. Start EVE with logserver running in the background. Addition to point 3: If logserver is taking up too much ram, go to the tools tab and select ôserver modeö. This will decrease the ram usage. 4. If you run into massive lag/desync/your cat catches fire, go to the log server after the fight, select the file tab and then "save workspace" (or ctrl + s). Sending CCP the logs* 1. Submit a bugreport. 2. Fill out the report as well as you can. In the description field, feel free to write which system the fight was in, and at what time. Please also include that the report should go to Mindstar or Soundwave.* Is this still the place to send them 3. Last but not least, click on "attach a screenshot or file" in the bottom of the page, and upload your logs. Then click "submit bug report".
Nephilim Xeno Caldari Pimebeka Mining Corp	Posted - 2009.07.08 01:52:00 - [285] did not really have a chance to test it in big long battle after taff but from what i noticed and heared from others the amount of desyncs has decreased looks promising so far
5pinDizzy Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2009.07.08 01:56:00 - [286] Originally by: Nephilim Xeno did not really have a chance to test it in big long battle after taff but from what i noticed and heared from others the amount of desyncs has decreased looks promising so far I got the impression you didn't like my at Taff, attacked me everytime, out of dozens of militia.
George Mccloud	Posted - 2009.07.08 07:58:00 - [287] Edited by: George Mccloud on 08/07/2009 07:57:48 I tested this lag fix in a fight which I'm guessing was around 40-50 people. No lag at all, I heared from a few people who did not apply the fix that they had quite a lot of lag. thanks CCP .
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.07.08 10:14:00 - [288] Quote: +1!!! Was the best large fleet battle in terms of lag i've ever been in. Even when my ship was destroyed at the station battle i managed to see my shields go down, then my armor a bit more slowly, then my stucture melt, as opposed to the usual "omg i'm in my pod" suddenly lol Ah, you are just seeing what I have since Jan 2009 when we started at Villore and just in 20v20. No surprise I always whined about desync, see how *** it is to play like that? Quote:** I got the impression you didn't like my at Taff, attacked me everytime, out of dozens of militia. In case you did not notice, we are not the regular low sec corp. Along with the possibility of 0.0 alike battles comes the 0.0 NBSI feature, where you get podded on sight unless you are blue. - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Rashmika Clavain Gallente Revelation Space	Posted - 2009.07.08 15:12:00 - [289] just curious... what does it change? I suppose this extra line of code calls or triggers something server side? Is it anything to do with faction/corp standing calculations and the militia when initiating combat? Removed. Please keep your EVE signature related to your EVE persona and not that of a real life politician. Navigator
Toscaria Amarr Gunship Diplomacy	Posted - 2009.07.08 16:30:00 - [290] Edited by: Toscaria on 08/07/2009 16:35:31 I also took part in a battle yesterday with around 40 people and got no lag or desync at all. Others who did not apply the patch complained that they were lagging out, and after the fight were quick to ask for the link to the hotfix. :) As a note, I took part in the Taff battle -- at the time I had not yet applied the patch -- and found myself unable to do anything due to the "Entering Space" glitch. So I can confirm that the Taff battle was indeed lagging at least some clients who did not have the fix enabled. CCP, if this ends up working out universally, you have a big thank you coming your way from a lot of happy players.

qanatas Minmatar Tribal Core	Posted - 2009.07.09 20:59:00 - [291] There was an engagement on the auga -> dal gate, around 20:35. It seems the fix works for some and not for others.

CCP Atlas	Posted - 2009.07.09 21:08:00 - [292] Thanks all for trying this out for us. It is very much appreciated and helps us pin down the problems.

Eggars Absinthe Brothers Consortium	Posted - 2009.07.09 21:20:00 - [293] Just had a large engagement in Auga, about forty on each side, and had no real noticable lag. Thanks very much for the fix.
Frank Monkey Gallente Stevie Sparkle and the SuperSonic Love Commandoes	Posted - 2009.07.09 21:42:00 - [294] Yip I was there in Auga at the Dal gate. No lag that I could see. Minmi just got creamed because of bad leadership, no change there then... Don't believe anything to the contrary. Frank Please resize your sig to a maximum of 400 x 120 and a file size no greater than 24000 bytes - Mitnal
Raven Six	Posted - 2009.07.09 21:54:00 - [295] Regarding the fight in Auga: I desynced after 10 seconds tops (like almost always when engaging in battles of this size). I didn't apply the hotfix though. Will do it now and report back if it helps. Since I basically never had a big fight in FW without desync, it would be a very strong indication that the hotfix is helping.
Chebri Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.07.09 21:59:00 - [296] Taff fight: While at the POS I had desynch so bad that I could not target the other ships let alone fire. I closed the client and relogged to try to clear it. When I logged back in I was directed to warp to a station for more fighting. Again I was desynched. I have a screen shot of when my ship turned into a pod at 20:13 yet the insurance evemail and kill log both show the ship died at 20:09. There is a four minute desynch. I have all effects off. I have sound off. I have graphics set to a minimum. I tried the prefs.ini fix posted in the forums and it made no difference. I had the fix in the file at the POS but had removed it before the station fight. Both fights had the same result. Faction Warfare is unplayable. This is rediculous. ---- Quote: Out beyond ideas of right-doing and wrong-doing, there is a field. I'll meet you there. ~Rumi
Chebri Minmatar Dark-Rising	Posted - 2009.07.09 22:03:00 - [297] Faction warfare battle at the Kourmonen gate in Kamela. The desynch was so bad that I was unable to select items in the overview. I could not target other ships and I could not select a gate to warp to. The combat log times do not match the chat times nor do they match the game logs. The caracal loss is recorded at 06:26 in the combat log. The pod loss is recorded at 06:28 in the combat log. Damage notifications I saw on screen (and have screen shots of) do not appear anywhere in the game logs. After my pod loss, the station would not load. I had to end task on EVE and log back in. 2009.07.07 06:26 So you died? Well you have a Clone Grade Xi at Amamake VI - Moon 8 - Pator Tech School station. Enjoy your afterlife. 2-minute difference here. 2009.07.07 06:28:00 Victim: Chebri Corp: Dark-Rising Alliance: NONE Faction: Minmatar Republic Destroyed: Capsule System: Kamela Security: 0.4 Damage Taken: 397 Involved parties: Name: Verx Interis (laid the final blow) Security: -1.3 Corp: SkyNet. Alliance: NONE Faction: Amarr Empire Ship: Malediction Weapon: Caldari Navy Flameburst Light Missile Damage Done: 397 2009.07.07 06:26:00 Victim: Chebri Corp: Dark-Rising Alliance: NONE Faction: Minmatar Republic Destroyed: Caracal System: Kamela Security: 0.4 Damage Taken: 3168 Involved parties: Name: Veshta Yoshida (laid the final blow) Security: 4.6 Corp: PIE Inc. Alliance: NONE Faction: Amarr Empire Ship: Zealot Weapon: Heavy Pulse Laser II Damage Done: 3168 Destroyed items: Target Painter I Scourge Fury Heavy Missile, Qty: 2797 (Cargo) Sensor Booster I Heavy Missile Launcher II, Qty: 4 10MN Afterburner I Scourge Fury Heavy Missile, Qty: 111 Dropped items: Partial Weapon Navigation Sensor Booster I Hydra F.O.F. Heavy Missile I, Qty: 1000 (Cargo) Warrior II, Qty: 2 (Drone Bay) Ballistic Control System II, Qty: 2 Heavy Missile Launcher II Scourge Fury Heavy Missile, Qty: 74 [ 2009.07.07 06:22:23 ] EVE System > Channel changed to Kamela Local Channel [ 2009.07.07 06:26:59 ] EVE System > Channel changed to Amamake Local Channel The 'fix' posted on the forums does not work (as I mentioned in a previous petition). Faction Warfare is not playable. ---- Quote: Out beyond ideas of right-doing and wrong-doing, there is a field. I'll meet you there. ~Rumi
tdrain	Posted - 2009.07.10 22:42:00 - [298] Hardware: New MacBook 13" Core 2 Duo Result after the prefs change: Eve never boots to login screen. The process must be Force Quit to exit.
nasty1	Posted - 2009.07.12 02:28:00 - [299] jumping into war targets in my cov ops ship with fix, 29 wts, laged out and lost my ship, couldn't activate cloakAnd it wasn't just module lag,if there wasn't any lag I wouldn't have lost my ship lag = exploit I will still keep the fix on and have heard several fleet members say it doesn't work So jumping into our own fleet doesn't cause lag but jumping into the enemy fleet causes lag you can sit watching a enemy blob and lag does not subside so if you have code that is constantly checking ( looping ) what happens differently when a fleet member jumps in to our own fleet and a fleet member jumps into an enemy fleet I have no more time to finish this loveletter so in theory I want to make love to your leg >> Nasty <<

CCP Hypnotic	Posted - 2009.07.13 12:08:00 - [300] An update for the fine pilots of Factional Warfare. Thanks to your efforts and feedback the experimental fix has been a great success. I know what you're thinking, "Success?!?! But it doesn't work for me, or my friend Randy. It' only seems to work for Billy over there! We all hate Billy now." That is true. It does not work for everyone all the time. This is somewhat expected. It is "experimental" after all. I'm not a programmer, just a lowly tester, but I can try to explain this fix a bit in my own language. We've been working very hard for a long while now to nail down what exactly is causing excessive FW lag and desyncs. As explained in a previous post, it's very difficult to do our normal fix-test-fix-test-again process on our internal test servers due to lower then TQ concurrent user numbers. This is why we put together this experiment and asked you all to help us out. Included in the code you activate by editing your prefs.ini file are not only a fix to the most likely bit to be causing problems, but quite a lot of new server logging. This way, we figured, if the code changes didn't correct the problem then the logging would tell us why. And that is what's been happening. Obviously not everyone is having good luck when trying out the fix. But some are. This tells me that the problem has more than one cause (as we thought it might), but that we're moving in the right direction. Because of your feedback and the additional log information you've all generated we are now evaluating an additional code change in house, to be released very soon. There's no guarantee this is the Silver Bullet for this issue. In fact, this issue probably doesn't have a Silver Bullet. More like a 100 round extended clip of full metal jacketed rounds, sprayed at the target in full auto mode while screaming our loudest and scariest Viking war cry. I know you all want an excellent FW experience at 100% and you want it right now. So do we. We'll get there. You've got a team of people here at CCP working towards that goal, and because of your help we now count you as part of that team. Welcome to The Team, now get back to work! -CCP Hypnotic -EVE Test Lead


nasty1	Posted - 2009.07.15 14:52:00 - [301] I have a problem and my psychotherapist can't help me On an unrelated subject, OMFG your real test lead, I mean you can type, I thought all ccp employees were Polish chimpanzees and the escaped monkeys in England were going to join your ranks to combat the lag problem, I'm going to have to totally rethink my thoughts So according to you test, " but quite a lot of new server logging. This way, we figured, if the code changes didn't correct the problem then the logging would tell us why " You can actually tell when we lag out, the main reason why you didn't give compensation is because you couldn't get any error on your side, now you have your logs eh. So now you're going to need a different excuse for not paying out compensation, hmm I may have couple suggestions 1. swine flu has hit and we are unwell at this time and therefore cannot check your logs before they automatically get deleted 2. I didn't write that, it was them chimpanzees from England pressing the keys 3. We are far too busy eating pasties, walking around in circles, reading tea leaves etc etc anyway enough of that, what it comes down to is you can read your logs if we say we have lost our ship because of lag now, of course we would need to apply the fix so you get the logs it will be interesting to see what excuse you come up with, I do hate to state the obvious and I am extremely happy that you have responded, it definitely shows you are committed to combating this exploit ( lag ) and it is an exploit, if I get 30 fleet members together and set them on a gate I would kill 22.5% more ships because of the lag therefore I'm using lag to exploit the situation me thinking you're going to need some extra hands there at ccp Central to cope with the lag compensation, there was a TV advertisement about tea that used monkeys, I'm sure some of them are unemployed at the moment I am totally joking about the monkeys references btw
Aurora Nyx Caldari Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2009.07.15 17:40:00 - [302] Originally by: CCP Hypnotic An update for the fine pilots of Factional Warfare. Thanks to your efforts and feedback the experimental fix has been a great success. I know what you're thinking, "Success?!?! But it doesn't work for me, or my friend Randy. It' only seems to work for Billy over there! We all hate Billy now." That is true. It does not work for everyone all the time. This is somewhat expected. It is "experimental" after all. I'm not a programmer, just a lowly tester, but I can try to explain this fix a bit in my own language. We've been working very hard for a long while now to nail down what exactly is causing excessive FW lag and desyncs. As explained in a previous post, it's very difficult to do our normal fix-test-fix-test-again process on our internal test servers due to lower then TQ concurrent user numbers. This is why we put together this experiment and asked you all to help us out. Included in the code you activate by editing your prefs.ini file are not only a fix to the most likely bit to be causing problems, but quite a lot of new server logging. This way, we figured, if the code changes didn't correct the problem then the logging would tell us why. And that is what's been happening. Obviously not everyone is having good luck when trying out the fix. But some are. This tells me that the problem has more than one cause (as we thought it might), but that we're moving in the right direction. Because of your feedback and the additional log information you've all generated we are now evaluating an additional code change in house, to be released very soon. There's no guarantee this is the Silver Bullet for this issue. In fact, this issue probably doesn't have a Silver Bullet. More like a 100 round extended clip of full metal jacketed rounds, sprayed at the target in full auto mode while screaming our loudest and scariest Viking war cry. I know you all want an excellent FW experience at 100% and you want it right now. So do we. We'll get there. You've got a team of people here at CCP working towards that goal, and because of your help we now count you as part of that team. Welcome to The Team, now get back to work! -CCP Hypnotic -EVE Test Lead Thankyou. Half of our complaint has been about the lack of communication, this post is a step towards fixing that. As for the tests needed, i'm sure you won't find many FW pilots that won't jump at the chance to act as guinea pigs to solve our issues.
Steve Celeste Caldari Overdogs	Posted - 2009.07.15 21:41:00 - [303] My first major battle since i applied the fix, 70 vs. 60 with capitals on the field in Tama. I had all my effects on except camera shake ofc to try and taunt the lag/desync monster... NO lag at all, thank you very much CCP, awesome job.
Therran Promitz Caldari	Posted - 2009.07.19 00:29:00 - [304] I have Vista, but i can't find prefs.ini at all ___________________ Show me how it ends
AlgisLT Gallente	Posted - 2009.07.20 08:04:00 - [305] Originally by: Therran Promitz I have Vista, but i can't find prefs.ini at all You should find it here, if you installed EVE to default location: C:\Users\Your_PC_User_Name\AppData\Local\CCP\EVE\c_program_files_ccp_eve_tranquility\settings
Aurora Nyx Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.07.21 16:17:00 - [306] A big thankyou from me. I activated the code as soon as you posted, and i've been using it ever since. In the days of using the code I have engaged in a dozen 20v20 or more, including 2 Capital drop-fests and some pirate action, and had nothing more than a second or two's worth of module lag at the worst times, other than that it's an amazing transformation for me, FW engagements are now fun.

CCP Navigator C C P	Posted - 2009.07.31 11:37:00 - [307] Hello Capsuleers, CCP Tanis is arranging some important tests on Singularity to test Factional Warfare improvements and fleet battles. Full details can be found here. Navigator Senior Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online

Ankhesentapemkah Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.07.31 12:01:00 - [308] Count me in! ---
Aurora Nyx Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.07.31 12:35:00 - [309] I'll be there.
Feral Lady	Posted - 2009.08.01 00:23:00 - [310] A nice big Clad vs Mint fleet fight in Egg today and another day of "entering in space" rather than playing in space. Yes playing on one server is still frustrating at time in low sec FW EVE empire. I didnt get on one kill, wasnt able to lock anything. So what that I have a 2009 uber game computer with Vista.

SoC Darkord Minmatar Silentium Mortalitas Mortal Destruction	Posted - 2009.08.01 15:42:00 - [311] Originally by: Feral Lady with Vista. Found your problem, CCP, will this fix help those not in the militia, but that fight them alot? Militia lag already got me one carrier :/
licht dark Amarr	Posted - 2009.08.02 22:23:00 - [312] fix is not working for windows 7. in a large ficht i lagt out ****. gut not even close the client.
Warg Matar Minmatar Thukk U	Posted - 2009.08.02 22:58:00 - [313] Tried it today after a 50ish vs 50 fight where I got the lag and lost every bit of control over the ui after about 3-4min. Next fight was closer to 60 vs 60 and experienced zero lag or odd problems. Think it's the first time... neat :)
Bryan Walsh	Posted - 2009.08.06 17:50:00 - [314] I reinstalled my client after accidental patching my TQ installation with SISI. I reapplied the fix, but I found that its not working for me? What the? Is the patch a self-diagnostic that analysis client side statistics and generate the required fixes? If so can anyone please mail me their prefs.ini command lines so I can refer. Help needed thank you all
Ankhesentapemkah Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.08.06 18:39:00 - [315] Horrible lag with both the sequencer thingie enabled and disabled. XP 64 bit here. ---
Zverofaust	Posted - 2009.08.09 19:29:00 - [316] Didn't work at all. If anything it seemed worse.
ibanez0r	Posted - 2009.08.10 05:45:00 - [317] " We cant recreate this on our test servers " Is that because its a client side problem, maybe you guys can try recreating it on your clients :)
ibanez0r	Posted - 2009.08.10 06:45:00 - [318] Edited by: ibanez0r on 10/08/2009 06:50:32 Edited by: ibanez0r on 10/08/2009 06:45:38 I hope this helps solve the issue: When client begins to desync, such as when ur often trying to warp your pod out of ground zero, ive noticed keypresses (not enter or sending text) just regular key presses in local will infact bring client back to life, guys its allmost like youve missed an application.processmessages somewhere within a loop, and then by pressing keys, this in effect brings this application.processmessages back into the loop of commands that is happening whilst client is totally desyncing. To me it seems like theres a really nasty client side bug, or simply, badly written code. Isnt that plain and simple common sence?
Nareg Maxence Gallente	Posted - 2009.08.10 07:22:00 - [319] ibanez0r, you might benefit from reading the pages efter page 1 of this thread.
Droog 1 Black Rise Inbreds	Posted - 2009.08.10 17:28:00 - [320] Ksequencer instructions have the file name for the Tranquility folder. The testing is on Sisi.

Trebor DeCaldar Caldari	Posted - 2009.08.10 18:17:00 - [321] Been gone for about a month now, is the FW lag still bad?
Saint VII Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.08.10 20:47:00 - [322] Originally by: Trebor DeCaldar Been gone for about a month now, is the FW lag still bad? Yes. But there is an experimental fix which improves the problem for some people. You could be among the lucky! :D No great scoundrel is ever uninteresting.


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