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mwd/cloak trick being stopped?

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Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.08 12:56:00 - [61] Edited by: Trimutius III on 08/05/2009 13:00:27 Originally by: Conlin So hittin the cloak button automatically kills inertia ?. Where do you get these ideas ccp ?. I said this idea some time ago in another thread. And i can say that it's like u cannot move cloaked and fast and same time. So if u want to move unseen u need to move slowly not to be detected and no matter if u are using MWD or not... It's laws of physics... Stealth aircrafts for example are flying slower then some other aircrafts just because if they will fly faster they will be detected by radars... Quote: Life is hard enough dodging gatecamps who can jb all over the place blocking your path , now you want to make it easier for them even further ?. Dodging camps in battleship? Are u kiding? Quote: This will certainly kill guerilla warfare , and kill a huge part of pvp off . U know in our alliance Fleet Comm will not be glad if i fit an Cloak on PVP ship (other than force recon or rarely scanning covert Ops) Quote: If this is set in motion we can all sit in our cabins , smoke a pipe with our warm slippers on , swing the lantern and tell the grand kids of the old days when we solo roamed the corners of hostile space alone . What are u talking about? I can't get ur idea totally... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Ryan Powers Caldari Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.08 12:58:00 - [62] Hmmmm. The topic is only two pages long but with the exception of 2-3 individuals the response would appear to be overwhelmingly negative. Perhaps that's something we should all take note of? As other have brought up, I could understand removing the mwd/cloak tactic on ships with non-covert-ops cloaks. This way the specialized ships (covert ops and force recons) can still fulfill their roles as intelligence-gathering scout. Any ship can report that a given gate is heavily camped. Any decent gate-camp can de-cloak a covops or recon. Why make it easier to de-cloak and kill them? There needs to be room set aside for the individual's ability to outperform an opponent. It would be a refreshing change for the majority of the players to be listened to. (Especialy the 0.0 ones. :p )
Amy Wang	Posted - 2009.05.08 13:02:00 - [63] uhm, how about this: make the mwd shut only of when cloaking in low sec? there are low sec checks in place e.g. for dictors etc so it cant be that hard to implement, can it? or make proto/improved cloaks not work within 25km of low sec gates both would solve the low sec insta warp problem an screw up the game considerably less then the present variant
Hertford Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.05.08 13:08:00 - [64] Originally by: Amy Wang uhm, how about this: make the mwd shut only of when cloaking in low sec? there are low sec checks in place e.g. for dictors etc so it cant be that hard to implement, can it? or make proto/improved cloaks not work within 25km of low sec gates both would solve the low sec insta warp problem an screw up the game considerably less then the present variant I have a counter-suggestion: Let's just leave things as they currently are on TQ.
Amy Wang	Posted - 2009.05.08 13:09:00 - [65] Originally by: Hertford Originally by: Amy Wang uhm, how about this: make the mwd shut only of when cloaking in low sec? there are low sec checks in place e.g. for dictors etc so it cant be that hard to implement, can it? or make proto/improved cloaks not work within 25km of low sec gates both would solve the low sec insta warp problem an screw up the game considerably less then the present variant I have a counter-suggestion: Let's just leave things as they currently are on TQ. Well that would be even better, but they seem to be inclined to mess around with it so least we can try is limit the damage ;)
Ombey Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.05.08 13:10:00 - [66] Originally by: Trimutius III I said this idea some time ago in another thread. And i can say that it's like u cannot move cloaked and fast and same time. So if u want to move unseen u need to move slowly not to be detected and no matter if u are using MWD or not... It's laws of physics... Stealth aircrafts for example are flying slower then some other aircrafts just because if they will fly faster they will be detected by radars... Don't bring physics into this, or your argument is moot. Eve doesn't conform to physics as we know itm, just look at New Eden space flight in general. Quote: Dodging camps in battleship? Are u kiding? He never said anything about Battleships Quote: What are u talking about? I can't get ur idea totally... He is talking about 0.0 being very static- the JB holders and the huge alliances will be able to choke off travel completely. It's hard enough moving around now through gatecamps, but we are able to have a chance to get past at the moment. Who wants to gatecamp gates where no-one will come in. Who wants to run gatecamps when they have a markedly less chance of survival. This is good for no-one. 2d EveMaps\|My blog
Euriti Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.05.08 13:22:00 - [67] Originally by: Rawr Cristina imo this change should only apply to prototype / improved cloaks and NOT covert ops. If anything then this, but screwing over solo hacs is **** aswell :/ ______________________________________________
Trimutius III Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.08 13:26:00 - [68] Originally by: Ombey Don't bring physics into this, or your argument is moot. Eve doesn't conform to physics as we know itm, just look at New Eden space flight in general. Yes i know that. But he said "hitting cloak button kill inertion". I think this was refering to physics. So i reffered to physics in answer too. My answer was as good as question. Quote: He never said anything about Battleships I never said that Covert Ops should be nerfed. Quote: He is talking about 0.0 being very static- the JB holders and the huge alliances will be able to choke off travel completely. It's hard enough moving around now through gatecamps, but we are able to have a chance to get past at the moment. Who wants to gatecamp gates where no-one will come in. Who wants to run gatecamps when they have a markedly less chance of survival. This is good for no-one. I see... He didn't said idea clearly... Ok i should say it's true. Covert Ops Cloaked Should be nerfed. Only MWD+Cloak trick on a bigger ships (that is often used in lowsecs) should be nerfed... And u know it's possible to move past gatecamps in ceptors... I practice it... even after nanonerf it's not that hard but u need good reaction and need to think fast... Though Arazu can catch them if have enough time and bubbles to lock ceptor... ------------------------------------------------- I am envoy from nowhere in nowhere. Nobody and nothing have sent me. And though it is impossible I exist ¬ Trimutius
Mira O'karr Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.05.08 13:31:00 - [69] Edited by: Mira O''karr on 08/05/2009 13:33:30 self modded snide remark :D
Xennith Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.05.08 13:43:00 - [70] I hope you'll forgive me, but being told that "its ok, you can still fly a ceptor solo if you're lucky" is not really making me like this change.

Poreuomai Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.05.08 13:43:00 - [71] Edited by: Poreuomai on 08/05/2009 13:44:00 Mira O'karr, I doubt no one has ever heard of Rebellion Alliance, I've reported their movements in various intel channels often enough. *Let My People Go*
Aylara	Posted - 2009.05.08 13:50:00 - [72] The cloak nerf will be a nice change IF: 1. Does not affect natural cloakers 2. More than 50% of the fights take place in space and not around gates and stations; encourage fights on the resource places (belt, complex, tower etc) rather than choke points: camping is boring.
Shannon Hayes	Posted - 2009.05.08 13:51:00 - [73] I just don't get where this is coming from. I don't think I've ever heard anyone complaining about this mechanic. Is there something I'm missing?
Space Wanderer	Posted - 2009.05.08 14:01:00 - [74] Originally by: Aylara The cloak nerf will be a nice change IF: 1. Does not affect natural cloakers 2. More than 50% of the fights take place in space and not around gates and stations; encourage fights on the resource places (belt, complex, tower etc) rather than choke points: camping is boring. Number 1 might still happen, depends on whether the devs will consider to special case natural cloaks. Number 2 is impossible. This change is a boost at gate camps, and as such discourages combat at the resource places.
Veng3ance Multiversal Enterprise Inc. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2009.05.08 14:02:00 - [75] Not much else needs to be said on the subject, the first page covered it easily. Don't ruin multiple ship classes to solve a MINOR problem.
Maestro Ulv Phaze-9 Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.05.08 14:25:00 - [76] Edited by: Maestro Ulv on 08/05/2009 14:29:15 Way to go once again CCP. Take a very valid, legit and far from perfect style of gameplay and kill it. Didn't I hear once that CCP were desperate to make Eve back into a small warefare game and take it away from blobs and bubbles more? Was I dreaming this? What happenned? Do you really want us all sat in 0.0 in our relative space never daring to venture beyond our own boundries. No social intercourse, no trying to take precious space away from enemies? Where are you heading exactly? Tell us now and make it easier for those of us who still have some faith in you to just give up the ghost. I mirror the sentiment of those in here that say, "WTF!!! No!". Oh and please! "It's laws of physics... " Since when in the laws of physics did it say that if you make something go invisible it suddenly adds enough drag to your "ship" to reduce its speed by a factor of 500% in less than a second? If you are going to quote something then at least learn how that something works. Turning on a cloak does not equate to dropping 10 mile wide wings on either side of your ship to negate forward momentum.
Trebor Daehdoow Gallente Sane Industries Inc. United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2009.05.08 14:26:00 - [77] You know, it might be interesting if this change was implemented with a twist -- after a jump, ships with a {covops only?} cloak can activate the cloak while still in the post-jump cloak state. In other words, they don't get the mwd pulse trick, but the campers don't get to see where they are. The cloaker has to creep back to the gate or out of the bubble, and the campers need to actively search for him (they know he's there because of the gateflash), as opposed to the current "watch for him to decloak, mwd towards his apparent position" technique. This might add some drama to gatecamping. One thing I would consider if this change were tried is that the gate jump mechanics guaranteed that your jump-in point was at least 4-5km from the nearest ship (which might move you closer or further away from the gate). I agree with everyone else though, that this nerf will dramatically reduce the survivability of covops in 0.0. World Domination - It's fun for the entire family! EViE - The iPhone / iPod Touch Skill Training Monitor
Dibsi Dei Salamyhkaisten kilta	Posted - 2009.05.08 14:37:00 - [78] Jesus Christ, is this for real? I don't have time to test this on sisi but come on. On TQ people will have their bubbling skills to decloak stuff but if this goes through it is just going to be approach and kill. Nothing will get through. Bad CCP.
Xennith Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.05.08 14:42:00 - [79] I popped onto Sisi and tested it, its real. As soon as your cloak goes on your speed starts to drop and the mwd goes off. My vaga also felt a little more sluggish than usual, so i guess the agility changes have gone through as well.
Space Wanderer	Posted - 2009.05.08 14:53:00 - [80] Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow You know, it might be interesting if this change was implemented with a twist -- after a jump, ships with a {covops only?} cloak can activate the cloak while still in the post-jump cloak state. I was thinking the exact same thing. In this way everybody is happy. No instawarp which irks the campers, but still a decent chance to get away, a decent chance for campers to find you, cloaks that actually serve to cloak, and impro cloak that have a meaning over the proto ones. Also travelling cloaked through a camp, esp with a big ship, is going to require a LOT of player skill.

Aylara	Posted - 2009.05.08 14:54:00 - [81] I'm curious if they increased the K <-> K wormhole spawn rate, to compensate for the nerf and encourage hit and run PVP.
Neddy Fox Gallente Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2009.05.08 14:56:00 - [82] Edited by: Neddy Fox on 08/05/2009 14:56:29 I wonder if this implemented because of the dictor immunity from the sub4 systems. CCP Don't do it ! T3 ships align in 8 seconds, and every single roamer in a cloaking ship will die ! Scouts give an extra edge to the game, killing them will destroy ALL fun in lowsec and 0.0 DON'T DO IT for covert cloaking ships !! ---- [PXIN Recruiter] PXIN Recruitement thread
MC McMic GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.05.08 15:07:00 - [83] Originally by: Trimutius III I said this idea some time ago in another thread. And i can say that it's like u cannot move cloaked and fast and same time. So if u want to move unseen u need to move slowly not to be detected and no matter if u are using MWD or not... It's laws of physics... Stealth aircrafts for example are flying slower then some other aircrafts just because if they will fly faster they will be detected by radars... You have absolutely no idea how stealth technology works at all, do you? You think it has something to do with how fast an object is flying? Don't try to bring technicalities or game physics into the discussion if you haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about. Thanks. Quote: Dodging camps in battleship? Are u kiding? You quoted someone who made absolutely no mention of dodging gatecamps in a battleship. Don't put words in others people's mouths. This nerf is a slap in the face to guerilla tactics in EVE... all so they could make low and high-sec gankers happy. Way to appeal to the lamest and least respected aspect of PvP in EVE.
Corstaad Minmatar Vardr ok Lidskjalv	Posted - 2009.05.08 15:07:00 - [84] ****ed ill advised fix. Move EvE away from camping BS which is already ** pvp. I freaking lost a Rapier to a good camp last week don't tell me its a exploit.
Rotnac Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.05.08 15:47:00 - [85] This is a really atrocious change. The vast majority here have echoed the fact that this will make the game less fun for both sides at gate camps, and discourage small gang warfare even more. Why change what isn't broke? Especially in a way that hurts everyone?
Raia Mortius Yin Bao	Posted - 2009.05.08 15:47:00 - [86] Edited by: Raia Mortius on 08/05/2009 15:50:28 Edited by: Raia Mortius on 08/05/2009 15:48:50 no one has mentioned yet that normal dictors are total suicide with this change now. the mwd + cloak was the only option to stand at least the senblence of chance to drop your bubble on a hostile fleet and get out. chances were still slim but still doable. i guess thats out the window then. i mean, seriously, does ccp even play their own game? ever so often they just crap out some stupid changes and when you have arranged yourself with it its bam another round. have they not heard of the principle measure twice, cut once. and whats up with another agility nerf to the vaga???? FFFFFUUUUUUUUUU
Dibsi Dei Salamyhkaisten kilta	Posted - 2009.05.08 15:50:00 - [87] Originally by: Xennith I popped onto Sisi and tested it, its real. As soon as your cloak goes on your speed starts to drop and the mwd goes off. My vaga also felt a little more sluggish than usual, so i guess the agility changes have gone through as well. That is not the only thing that happens. There is also a delay before you can use mwd after decloaking. Which means if you want to burn out of the bubble you have to let every interceptor lock you down and then mwd + clo- oh wait.
Professor Perplex	Posted - 2009.05.08 15:51:00 - [88] Originally by: Dibsi Dei Originally by: Xennith I popped onto Sisi and tested it, its real. As soon as your cloak goes on your speed starts to drop and the mwd goes off. My vaga also felt a little more sluggish than usual, so i guess the agility changes have gone through as well. That is not the only thing that happens. There is also a delay before you can use mwd after decloaking. Which means if you want to burn out of the bubble you have to let every interceptor lock you down and then mwd + clo- oh wait. are you serious? /facepalm is it bring your kid to work week at ccp hq? who comes up with this ****?
Retheon Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.05.08 16:04:00 - [89] Christ alive, CCP, stop changing this ****. Just leave it as it is, and step back slowly. Thank you.
Ecalevol Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.05.08 16:09:00 - [90] Originally by: Dibsi Dei Jesus Christ, is this for real? I don't have time to test this on sisi but come on. On TQ people will have their bubbling skills to decloak stuff but if this goes through it is just going to be approach and kill. Nothing will get through. Bad CCP. Exactly. Makes it boring as a gatecamper, and impossible to get through as a scout. Sucks for both parties, woohoo! CCP, don't be stupid this time, don't implement this on TQ.



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