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Kouryusei Caldari The Bitter Sea Trading Company	Posted - 2009.06.11 15:48:00 - [361] Whilst I cannot offer EBANK assistance from a monetary perspective, if they need assistance with anything technical related (app/web development, backup hosting, e.t.c), then I'm more then happy to lend a hand. I'm sure the current EBANK team will work through this. :)
Thoraemond Minmatar Far Ranger	Posted - 2009.06.11 15:59:00 - [362] Originally by: Archon Megalon Anyone find it strange that EBANK has so many members of Kia working for them, but Kia defaulted on 250,000,000,000 isk loan? Maybe they're working off the debt, you know, like washing dishes at the restaurant to pay for your meal.
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.06.11 16:03:00 - [363] Originally by: Sophia Truthspeaker Could someone from Ebank verify that the text posted by Ottozia is from Ricdic? There should be ample insider informations given, which would linken the text to at least an Ebank employee. I'm 99% sure it's Ricdic. All the personal information is accurate and it also sounds like what he'd say as well.
Amarranga	Posted - 2009.06.11 16:13:00 - [364] Originally by: Dzil Originally by: Motivated Prophet It's a stupid, stupid thing to do for $5,000. MP While I'm not condoning RMT, are you saying it was a stupid idea to save his house/family, and give up EVE? Naturally. It was stupid to let things get to a point where he felt "the only way out" was to steal. Stupid to "give up" eve. No doubt he had more than enough isk to keep playing on PLEX for a long time - saving his RL wallet. If nothing else, because EBANK is supposedly quite profitable. Alledgedly, what we are looking at is a person in a position to steal a lot, despite a claim from LVV that the most anyone could run off with was 30B (as per post on MD). He (LVV) did obviously not speak the full truth or did not know better, in which case he should have shut up until he did. But mis/under-informed underlings can be so useful... the alternatives are of course that he was deliberately misinforming the public or that the safeguards, that were supposed to keep his statement true, were not in place and being enforced. Either way it reflects poorly on him personally and on EBANK as a whole. I am looking forward to a interesting QEN-Q2 since this affair is clearly a prime candidate for a case study, analysis and a lot of expert opinion. QEN-Q1 spent a lot of text talking about trust. Trust in what, please? At first we hear it was 200B. Then, reluctantly, because someone was able to force them to the forums and respond (page 2), we hear it is probably another 275B in a loan, on top of that. I find myself asking. Is there more that has yet to be told? Would I or anyone else believe the answer to that? How much information would they have withheld (=concealed) if they could? And what would the forums be without some petty humour? Ricdic + scam/theft + RMT = Ric(h)Dic(k) + ban. oh har har, see wut I did thar?
Cordele Gemini Technologies	Posted - 2009.06.11 16:21:00 - [365] Originally by: Mr Horizontal Originally by: Cordele How many other alliances that do not have senior members on your board have you given enough unsecured (and unrepaid) loans to to purchase several titans? 4 separate alliances from opposing factions. Who is confidential. All in the multiple hundreds of billions, all unsecured, and all frequent return customers? It's already been admitted that: Originally by: SentryRaven it was defaulted by a corp in KIA that subsequently used our relationship to EBANK to get the loan approved in the first place. Welp. So the issue of preferential treatment has already been established. The only question is how preferential, and to what degree you extend that threatment to other factions. It is clear that KIA was approached about these loans, and in large part had them approved, because two EBANK Board members, one of them a KIA Director, have a relationship with the alliance leader. Originally by: Joss Sparq Is it just me, or are you actively trying to troll someone who isn't here to respond anymore? Ricdic has already made his presence known in this discussion, and my comments were a response to his attempt to defend himself. He clearly has the ability to reply if he wants to, and it's entirely his own fault that he can't do it with his known characters.
Ms Delerium	Posted - 2009.06.11 16:24:00 - [366] Edited by: Ms Delerium on 11/06/2009 16:25:41 posting on Epic thread Im pretty sure Ricdic had planned this from a long time ago. In fact, im confident many rich players are planning to make the big business when quiting EVE, and some of them are investors, auditors, manufacturers, or bank employees as I said once, its just a matter of time. Not supporting RMT but they will do it as long as they can. You got a game account on one hand and 15k RL bucks on the other... c'mon!!! you can't trust anyone. No matter how "important" or "respectable" his name is.
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.06.11 16:29:00 - [367] Originally by: Ms Delerium Edited by: Ms Delerium on 11/06/2009 16:25:41 posting on Epic thread Im pretty sure Ricdic had planned this from a long time ago. In fact, im confident many rich players are planning to make the big business when quiting EVE, and some of them are investors, auditors, manufacturers, or bank employees as I said once, its just a matter of time. Not supporting RMT but they will do it as long as they can. You got a game account on one hand and 15k RL bucks on the other... c'mon!!! you can't trust anyone. No matter how "important" or "respectable" his name is. I'm also pretty sure you're full of crap. I wouldn't worry about it though...I've heard I'm not very credible.
SilentCid	Posted - 2009.06.11 16:31:00 - [368] I'm really a nobody just started 14 days ago and bought the game because this game is really unique and fun. The impact on what happen hasn't really hurt me but I can really understand with someone who has billions in the bank, how tick off they are right now. I did a bit of searching which I can't seem to find the answer too. I been hearing that the person we originally sent deposits to is no longer with EBank and has been banned. I am curious what has he been banned for?
Mystafyre Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.06.11 16:33:00 - [369] Originally by: Ms Delerium Edited by: Ms Delerium on 11/06/2009 16:25:41 posting on Epic thread Im pretty sure Ricdic had planned this from a long time ago. In fact, im confident many rich players are planning to make the big business when quiting EVE, and some of them are investors, auditors, manufacturers, or bank employees as I said once, its just a matter of time. Not supporting RMT but they will do it as long as they can. You got a game account on one hand and 15k RL bucks on the other... c'mon!!! you can't trust anyone. No matter how "important" or "respectable" his name is. I asked in old thread from ricdic that why he doesn't just take what he can and gtfo.. I told something like 'it took so long to build this reputation blaah blaah...' And now after 2-3 months he did it lol Only thing what bothers me is that why he sold ISK for RMT, was there real need or was he just fed up with the game. I would have just taken the ISK, transferred it to new character, biomassed old character, then purchased new one and have pvp in faction battleships because they just are so freakin awesome
MailDeadDrop Globaltech Industries	Posted - 2009.06.11 16:36:00 - [370] Originally by: Hexxx I'm also pretty sure you're full of crap. I wouldn't worry about it though...I've heard I'm not very credible. "Edible!" I said "you're not edible!" Jeebus when will you get that crappy hearing aid fixed? Are we having fun yet? No? Shame that. I haven't seen an EBANK or Hexxx response to Kazzac's concern about the at-risk deposits (those to EBANK Ricdic after some point in time), and his suggestion for someone to accept depositor's API wallet data for proof, and furthermore Kazzac's well-founded concern over the wallet API horizon. Would you make some comment about that? MDD

Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.06.11 16:39:00 - [371] Originally by: MailDeadDrop Originally by: Hexxx I'm also pretty sure you're full of crap. I wouldn't worry about it though...I've heard I'm not very credible. "Edible!" I said "you're not edible!" Jeebus when will you get that crappy hearing aid fixed? Are we having fun yet? No? Shame that. I haven't seen an EBANK or Hexxx response to Kazzac's concern about the at-risk deposits (those to EBANK Ricdic after some point in time), and his suggestion for someone to accept depositor's API wallet data for proof, and furthermore Kazzac's well-founded concern over the wallet API horizon. Would you make some comment about that? MDD For now until we have a "real" solution, please screenshot in-game transfers to EBANK Ricdic. We're still working on this.
Nouva MacGyver Caldari MacGyver Communications	Posted - 2009.06.11 16:42:00 - [372] Everything happens for a reason. When the dust settles, there will be a silver lining. Suffice to say, I wish EBANK and all involved staff/personnel the best in tackling this issue and to continued health in all their future undertakings.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.06.11 16:43:00 - [373] Originally by: Hexxx Originally by: MailDeadDrop Originally by: Hexxx I'm also pretty sure you're full of crap. I wouldn't worry about it though...I've heard I'm not very credible. "Edible!" I said "you're not edible!" Jeebus when will you get that crappy hearing aid fixed? Are we having fun yet? No? Shame that. I haven't seen an EBANK or Hexxx response to Kazzac's concern about the at-risk deposits (those to EBANK Ricdic after some point in time), and his suggestion for someone to accept depositor's API wallet data for proof, and furthermore Kazzac's well-founded concern over the wallet API horizon. Would you make some comment about that? MDD For now until we have a "real" solution, please screenshot in-game transfers to EBANK Ricdic. We're still working on this. You have a real solution Hexxx, appoint someone or someones to review transfers requests. You have about 24 hours left before some of your more prominent customers go over that horizon. Use the damn API key already, verifying the transfer takes as little as a few minutes per person. Bonus points because if they say they did transfer but still have logs before the point of no return date for the banning, you can effectively call someone on their BS. The whole screenshot thing is just a giant mess of mud asking to be dropped. ...scuze me while I bust out my photoshop
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.06.11 16:48:00 - [374] Originally by: flakeys To those condoning it because of the reasoning: While i understand , the question you have to ask yourself is do you also condone chinese farmers?They need the bit of rl cash they get for it just as bad as ric if he is telling the truth. Do you condone macro's as long as they are from people who really can use the isk to sell for cash to pay off debts or to place food for their children on the table? I am not saying wether or not what he did is justified or not , i am merely handing you a choice , because if you say ricdic's choice was the right one then think twice before you come on the forums complaining about bots/macro's. We all make choices in our life.Some are harder then others.Some choices have come up because of our own misjudgement or short insight and others just come falling out of the sky on top of us.However we have to live with how others judge our choices when we know we have crossed a line.This is where ricdic fails for me , he let's someone post a statement in wich he tries to justify his actions.Allthough he states several times he is the one to blaim he can't refrain from pointing fingers.You have made this choice ricdic so just take the downfall for it. Does it even matter any more what the circomstances are ricdic?You choosen for your family , good on you , but why even then try to post a justification of what you did.Close these forums and leave eve behind you.Choice is made , now live with it. nice post needs a quote imo
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.06.11 16:50:00 - [375] Originally by: SilentCid I'm really a nobody just started 14 days ago and bought the game because this game is really unique and fun. The impact on what happen hasn't really hurt me but I can really understand with someone who has billions in the bank, how tick off they are right now. I did a bit of searching which I can't seem to find the answer too. I been hearing that the person we originally sent deposits to is no longer with EBank and has been banned. I am curious what has he been banned for? no deposit holder should be ****ed off, nobody lost anything but EBANK... it was like scoring in your own goal imo!
SilentCid	Posted - 2009.06.11 16:56:00 - [376] Originally by: Ji Sama Originally by: SilentCid I'm really a nobody just started 14 days ago and bought the game because this game is really unique and fun. The impact on what happen hasn't really hurt me but I can really understand with someone who has billions in the bank, how tick off they are right now. I did a bit of searching which I can't seem to find the answer too. I been hearing that the person we originally sent deposits to is no longer with EBank and has been banned. I am curious what has he been banned for? no deposit holder should be ****ed off, nobody lost anything but EBANK... it was like scoring in your own goal imo! Not sure what you mean by that nor did I said anyone losing anything.
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.06.11 17:03:00 - [377] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Originally by: Hexxx Originally by: MailDeadDrop Originally by: Hexxx I'm also pretty sure you're full of crap. I wouldn't worry about it though...I've heard I'm not very credible. "Edible!" I said "you're not edible!" Jeebus when will you get that crappy hearing aid fixed? Are we having fun yet? No? Shame that. I haven't seen an EBANK or Hexxx response to Kazzac's concern about the at-risk deposits (those to EBANK Ricdic after some point in time), and his suggestion for someone to accept depositor's API wallet data for proof, and furthermore Kazzac's well-founded concern over the wallet API horizon. Would you make some comment about that? MDD For now until we have a "real" solution, please screenshot in-game transfers to EBANK Ricdic. We're still working on this. You have a real solution Hexxx, appoint someone or someones to review transfers requests. You have about 24 hours left before some of your more prominent customers go over that horizon. Use the damn API key already, verifying the transfer takes as little as a few minutes per person. Bonus points because if they say they did transfer but still have logs before the point of no return date for the banning, you can effectively call someone on their BS. The whole screenshot thing is just a giant mess of mud asking to be dropped. ...scuze me while I bust out my photoshop FYI, I just received confirmation that CCP is reversing money transfers to EBANK Ricdic after he got hit with the ban-stick. However...please send your full API key to [email protected] if you deposited during the period of time Ricdic was banned and did not have that deposit register on our website. We're trying to make sure that all deposits are sorted and cleared. EBANK - Chairman of the Board \| www.eve-bank.net
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2009.06.11 17:06:00 - [378] Originally by: Hexxx FYI, I just received confirmation that CCP is reversing money transfers to EBANK Ricdic after he got hit with the ban-stick. However...please send your full API key to [email protected] if you deposited during the period of time Ricdic was banned and did not have that deposit register on our website. We're trying to make sure that all deposits are sorted and cleared. There, that solved any issues I had and some for my clients as well.
Dzil Caldari Waffles Reloaded	Posted - 2009.06.11 17:07:00 - [379] Originally by: Hexxx For now until we have a "real" solution, please screenshot in-game transfers to EBANK Ricdic. We're still working on this. You can't be serious? save SS run mspaint profit?
Hexxx Minmatar	Posted - 2009.06.11 17:10:00 - [380] Originally by: Dzil Originally by: Hexxx For now until we have a "real" solution, please screenshot in-game transfers to EBANK Ricdic. We're still working on this. You can't be serious? save SS run mspaint profit? Anybody who made transactions to EBANK Ricdic after he got banned, we ask to petition this with CCP. However, if you do not have any luck, please evemail LaVista Vista or email [email protected] with your full API key, as well as proof that a GM refused the reversal, in which case we will cover the loss.

Dzil Caldari Waffles Reloaded	Posted - 2009.06.11 17:18:00 - [381] Originally by: flakeys To those condoning it because of the reasoning: While i understand , the question you have to ask yourself is do you also condone chinese farmers?They need the bit of rl cash they get for it just as bad as ric if he is telling the truth. Do you condone macro's as long as they are from people who really can use the isk to sell for cash to pay off debts or to place food for their children on the table? I am not saying wether or not what he did is justified or not , i am merely handing you a choice , because if you say ricdic's choice was the right one then think twice before you come on the forums complaining about bots/macro's. We all make choices in our life.Some are harder then others.Some choices have come up because of our own misjudgement or short insight and others just come falling out of the sky on top of us. However we have to live with how others judge our choices when we know we have crossed a line.This is where ricdic fails for me , he let's someone post a statement in wich he tries to justify his actions.Allthough he states several times he is the one to blaim he can't refrain from pointing fingers.You have made this choice ricdic so just take the downfall for it. Does it even matter any more what the circomstances are ricdic?You choosen for your family , good on you , but why even then try to post a justification of what you did.Close these forums and leave eve behind you.Choice is made , now live with it. Interesting - though considering ricdic is banned you've posed a bunch of questions to him that he really can't respond to, unless by playing telephone again. I disagree anyone has to live with your judgement. They may or may not choose to. Ricdic has to live with himself over this, that's all. I think he's going to justify saving his home over any amount of internet spaceship bazillionaire e-honor. He's going to justify giving his kid a better future over your virtual income. I don't really complain about bots/macros. Can they be annoying? Sure. Unfair? This is EVE: If you want to play a fair game, go play chess:P 16 pieces, alternating moves, full visibility, no randomness/hazards. See you on FICS :P
Dragon Greg	Posted - 2009.06.11 17:18:00 - [382] Originally by: Cordele Originally by: SentryRaven it was defaulted by a corp in KIA that subsequently used our relationship to EBANK to get the loan approved in the first place. Welp. So the issue of preferential treatment has already been established. The only question is how preferential, and to what degree you extend that threatment to other factions. It is clear that KIA was approached about these loans, and in large part had them approved, because two EBANK Board members, one of them a KIA Director, have a relationship with the alliance leader. CCP's Economist must be having a really hard time trying not to grin here. In spite of any decent support in terms of game mechanisms for banking protocols and debt management Ebank has managed to replicate not just a banking system in a virtual environment, but also an environment surrounding the bank system which is just as susceptible to social engineering as each and every bank in real life. And the parallels do not start or stop there. This is not intended as some dagger & back combo, I am impressed with what level of intrinsic interactions the eve banking concept has gotten to over the years, both the ups and the downs. Now if this does not convince CCP to have a second look at EVE's money markets as a viable game niche, worthy of allocating some manhours to for making it a more established product niche then I don't know what will. As a bit of a personal note, reading the comments in this and other threads on what you could call bad communications and the tendency to keep things in house .. a real bank would have the very same tendency, and usually the very same resulting screwup (if not in effect then in the public's eye). At the same time sofar Ebank staff are handling the resulting consequences (after that interval of internal paralysis) a lot better then most banks in real life.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.06.11 17:19:00 - [383] Originally by: Hexxx Anybody who made transactions to EBANK Ricdic after he got banned, we ask to petition this with CCP. However, if you do not have any luck, please evemail LaVista Vista or email [email protected] with your full API key, as well as proof that a GM refused the reversal, in which case we will cover the loss. Confirming that I'll be handling any deposit claims. The prefered way is to evemail me directly, as I'll be doing the verification-magic with the API. So that will get you a quicker turn-around on the claim.
Mazzarins Demise Profit Development and Research Association	Posted - 2009.06.11 17:36:00 - [384] Edited by: Mazzarins Demise on 11/06/2009 17:36:10 While I know the other EBANK board members must be diplomatic with current staff, is there any inkling of truth behind Ricdic's opinions towards LVV? I think it deserves some discussion, considering he is stepping up to be the new CEO.
Bonhomme Carnaval	Posted - 2009.06.11 17:44:00 - [385] Originally by: Dzil Originally by: flakeys To those condoning it because of the reasoning: While i understand , the question you have to ask yourself is do you also condone chinese farmers?They need the bit of rl cash they get for it just as bad as ric if he is telling the truth. Do you condone macro's as long as they are from people who really can use the isk to sell for cash to pay off debts or to place food for their children on the table? I am not saying wether or not what he did is justified or not , i am merely handing you a choice , because if you say ricdic's choice was the right one then think twice before you come on the forums complaining about bots/macro's. We all make choices in our life.Some are harder then others.Some choices have come up because of our own misjudgement or short insight and others just come falling out of the sky on top of us. However we have to live with how others judge our choices when we know we have crossed a line.This is where ricdic fails for me , he let's someone post a statement in wich he tries to justify his actions.Allthough he states several times he is the one to blaim he can't refrain from pointing fingers.You have made this choice ricdic so just take the downfall for it. Does it even matter any more what the circomstances are ricdic?You choosen for your family , good on you , but why even then try to post a justification of what you did.Close these forums and leave eve behind you.Choice is made , now live with it. Interesting - though considering ricdic is banned you've posed a bunch of questions to him that he really can't respond to, unless by playing telephone again. I disagree anyone has to live with your judgement. They may or may not choose to. Ricdic has to live with himself over this, that's all. I think he's going to justify saving his home over any amount of internet spaceship bazillionaire e-honor. He's going to justify giving his kid a better future over your virtual income. I don't really complain about bots/macros. Can they be annoying? Sure. Unfair? This is EVE: If you want to play a fair game, go play chess:P 16 pieces, alternating moves, full visibility, no randomness/hazards. See you on FICS :P 1) Open internet chess game. 2) Open single player chess game with opponent on maximum difficulty where you play the opposite side of the one you play on your internet game. 3) On your SP game, play the same moves as your internet opponent. 4) On your internet game, play the same moves as your maximum difficulty opponent that even world masters of chess rarely beat. Fair chess on the internet?
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.06.11 17:47:00 - [386] Originally by: Mazzarins Demise I think it deserves some discussion, considering he is stepping up to be the new CEO. I'm not stepping up as new the CEO.
Dzil Caldari Waffles Reloaded	Posted - 2009.06.11 17:48:00 - [387] Originally by: Mazzarins Demise Edited by: Mazzarins Demise on 11/06/2009 17:36:10 While I know the other EBANK board members must be diplomatic with current staff, is there any inkling of truth behind Ricdic's opinions towards LVV? I think it deserves some discussion, considering he is stepping up to be the new CEO. You think the ebank BOD owes you a discussion around Ricdic's parting opinions of a guy that didn't run off with 200B isk? I'd wager they'll probably default on that debt ;) FWIW, if Ricdic was a real CEO he would have held LVV accountable to those expectations while running the company, not on his way out the door with a self woven golden parachute. ------------------------------ In EVE, when someone undercuts you, they're a lemming. When you undercut someone else, it's skill/effort/manipulation.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.06.11 17:54:00 - [388] Originally by: Dzil You think the ebank BOD owes you a discussion around Ricdic's parting opinions of a guy that didn't run off with 200B isk? Honestly? If it can help that the next 5 pages won't be speculation about me, then I'd rather just address what I did. Because it's really simple.
Mazzarins Demise Profit Development and Research Association	Posted - 2009.06.11 17:54:00 - [389] Edited by: Mazzarins Demise on 11/06/2009 17:54:35 Originally by: Dzil Originally by: Mazzarins Demise Edited by: Mazzarins Demise on 11/06/2009 17:36:10 While I know the other EBANK board members must be diplomatic with current staff, is there any inkling of truth behind Ricdic's opinions towards LVV? I think it deserves some discussion, considering he is stepping up to be the new CEO. You think the ebank BOD owes you a discussion around Ricdic's parting opinions of a guy that didn't run off with 200B isk? I'd wager they'll probably default on that debt ;) FWIW, if Ricdic was a real CEO he would have held LVV accountable to those expectations while running the company, not on his way out the door with a self woven golden parachute. Well, the only reason why it piqued my interest was because a hefty portion of the "official Ricdic statement" was directed specifically at him. Only reason why I believed it should foster a discussion of some sort. And I edited the CEO bit from last post, apologies for incorrect info.
Dzil Caldari Waffles Reloaded	Posted - 2009.06.11 17:55:00 - [390] Originally by: Bonhomme Carnaval Originally by: Dzil Originally by: flakeys To those condoning it because of the reasoning: While i understand , the question you have to ask yourself is do you also condone chinese farmers?They need the bit of rl cash they get for it just as bad as ric if he is telling the truth. Do you condone macro's as long as they are from people who really can use the isk to sell for cash to pay off debts or to place food for their children on the table? I am not saying wether or not what he did is justified or not , i am merely handing you a choice , because if you say ricdic's choice was the right one then think twice before you come on the forums complaining about bots/macro's. We all make choices in our life.Some are harder then others.Some choices have come up because of our own misjudgement or short insight and others just come falling out of the sky on top of us. However we have to live with how others judge our choices when we know we have crossed a line.This is where ricdic fails for me , he let's someone post a statement in wich he tries to justify his actions.Allthough he states several times he is the one to blaim he can't refrain from pointing fingers.You have made this choice ricdic so just take the downfall for it. Does it even matter any more what the circomstances are ricdic?You choosen for your family , good on you , but why even then try to post a justification of what you did.Close these forums and leave eve behind you.Choice is made , now live with it. Interesting - though considering ricdic is banned you've posed a bunch of questions to him that he really can't respond to, unless by playing telephone again. I disagree anyone has to live with your judgement. They may or may not choose to. Ricdic has to live with himself over this, that's all. I think he's going to justify saving his home over any amount of internet spaceship bazillionaire e-honor. He's going to justify giving his kid a better future over your virtual income. I don't really complain about bots/macros. Can they be annoying? Sure. Unfair? This is EVE: If you want to play a fair game, go play chess:P 16 pieces, alternating moves, full visibility, no randomness/hazards. See you on FICS :P 1) Open internet chess game. 2) Open single player chess game with opponent on maximum difficulty where you play the opposite side of the one you play on your internet game. 3) On your SP game, play the same moves as your internet opponent. 4) On your internet game, play the same moves as your maximum difficulty opponent that even world masters of chess rarely beat. Fair chess on the internet? Sure, and you'd be violating a FICS TOS similar to engaging in RMT here. The key difference? Ricdic (supposedly) made thousands of dollars. ------------------------------ In EVE, when someone undercuts you, they're a lemming. When you undercut someone else, it's skill/effort/manipulation.



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