Originally by: Proton Power

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Questions -

How long did you know about this?

We knew he stole 200 Billion and attempted an unlock vote on some BPO's yesterday morning. The full extent of the situation is only coming to light in the past few hours. For example; at first we believed we would be getting the EBANK Ricdic character (Ricdic was cooperating with us in a character transfer), however that character was then banned. That only became apparent more recently.

Why just post it now when others figured it out prior?

Because a lot of information was inaccurate.

How many people lost isk depositied to EBANK Ric after you lost his api info?

Unclear at this time.

Any info on the loan that defaulted which was more than what ricdic scammed?

We're not ready to discuss our loans right now.

Any new employee's that you have hired in the past 1-2 mths we should know about?

Yes, we did bring on some new employees.

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Its a good start come up clean over all and I think EBANK still has a chance.

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How long did you know about this?

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Why just post it now when others figured it out prior?

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How many people lost isk depositied to EBANK Ric after you lost his api info?

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Originally by: Lecherito

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Recently, Athre partially defended LRN's decision to scam his investors. I wonder, what his his stance in regards to this most recent Ricdic development?

-L

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Quote:

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"Lecherito on Market Discussion: Though I have to go down on the record as saying that I'm convinced the majority of the MD community is ******ed"

Originally by: Block Ukx

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Hexxx,

I have several questions, and I hope you can answer them as well.

1) What is the current bankÆs liquidity?
2) Who holds the majority of the liquid ISK?
3) How much ISK is locked in BPOs?
4) Who is EBANKÆs official CEO?
5) How much has the bank lost?
6) What is the bankÆs gross and net income?
7) What are the bankÆs mayor liabilities?
8) Who is your internal auditor?


Other comments:
1) Please update your website to represent the actual active staff and BOD.

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Originally by: cosmoray

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So the most important character in EBANK scammed.

Not only did he run off with a good chunk of ISK, he most likely kept accepting ISK deposits to character EBANK Ricdic in the last few days.

1. How much money is typically deposited in a NORMAL day via EBANK Ricdic
2. How will you handle the claims from people who deposited money but that hasn't reached their account (API audit?)

If I read the EBANK reports correctly only about a third of the 2.3T ISK is in liquid form (approx. 700B). Ricdic scammed 200B of that leaving around 500B in anticipation of a run on the bank.

The bank is now trying to liquidate assets to be able to pay their withdrawals.

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Again not really answering questions so will try again.

Why has it been 2 months yet, and still you don't have information on a 250-400bil isk unsecured loan? You have the answer you just don't like the answer so say you don't have one yet is the way I take it atm.

Great you hired new employee's who are they?

What are you going to do about people that still deposited isk after this happend since you failed the public and didnt release anything up to 36hrs after?

Why coldnt you state what you stated here 1hr after finding out? It seems to me nothing of much infomration is in there I didn't figure out without the sources EBANK has within about 30min.

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Originally by: Hexxx

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There are two distinct and separate issues we're dealing with internally and the entire purpose of us keeping these discussions internal is so that people don't go posting inaccurate information....which you just did. I shouldn't need to lecture you about this and I'm disappointed I even have to respond in this setting.

Now; in regards to EBANK, we're working on resolving two different issues. The first we had just about closed the case on when another hit. I'd ask for a little patience as we work to resolve the second issue. We'll be addressing BOTH once we finish the second.

That's all I have to say right now about it.

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Originally by: Motivated Prophet

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2) Please don't email me again with the "To:" field. Anyone want a list of 195 EBank customers' email addresses?

MP

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Originally by: Krathos Morpheus

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Originally by: Hexxx

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There are two distinct and separate issues we're dealing with internally and the entire purpose of us keeping these discussions internal is so that people don't go posting inaccurate information....which you just did. I shouldn't need to lecture you about this and I'm disappointed I even have to respond in this setting.

Now; in regards to EBANK, we're working on resolving two different issues. The first we had just about closed the case on when another hit. I'd ask for a little patience as we work to resolve the second issue. We'll be addressing BOTH once we finish the second.

That's all I have to say right now about it.

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What do you mean by finishing it? You have not adressed the first issue yet. Why you did say nothing about the first until now? Why the wating for releasing the info about the first issue if it is unrelated to the second? What accuracy needed two months to be reached? Didn't you have the information about the issue that happened two months ago until now to be released without inaccuracy?

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Originally by: Proton Power

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I can answer most these fairly easy. If I answer I will be posting names, infomration that your suppose to hold confidential and such. I am giving you a chance to put it all out there but seems to me yoru still not putting out information.

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Originally by: Viktor Raybach

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Originally by: Proton Power

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I can answer most these fairly easy. If I answer I will be posting names, infomration that your suppose to hold confidential and such. I am giving you a chance to put it all out there but seems to me yoru still not putting out information.

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Blackmail? Really?

Way to make yourself look good here.

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Originally by: Leowen

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I'm surprised. I didn't see this coming.

I have preached in this forum many times though, that the EBANK institution (and DBANK for that matter) just offers a more complex version of an unsecured bond. Regardless of complexity of mechanisms and auditing, scamming is possible, and so depositing carries a risk. That risk is not adequately recognised in the interest rates offered. Thus I have never invested in any bank, I prefer to hold hundreds of billions of idle ISK in my account than trust it to someone else.

The secondary market in EVE can work, but there is WAAAAAYYYY too much naivety and trust at play. A formal game mechanic needs to come in, and/or the return rates need to increase dramatically so that risk matched reward. Until then as far as I'm concerned anyone investing in anyone else is just waiting for a hiding.

No offence to any remaining EBANK staff is intended in this post. I just think the system is and always has been very questionable.

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Why has it been 2 months yet, and still you don't have information on a 250-400bil isk unsecured loan? You have the answer you just don't like the answer so say you don't have one yet is the way I take it atm.

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Great you hired new employee's who are they?

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What are you going to do about people that still deposited isk after this happend since you failed the public and didnt release anything up to 36hrs after?

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Why coldnt you state what you stated here 1hr after finding out? It seems to me nothing of much infomration is in there I didn't figure out without the sources EBANK has within about 30min.

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Originally by: Hexxx

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Some of your questions I can't answer - our liquidity as of yesterday was 400 billion to 500 billion. This number is in flux though because of withdraws and liquidations on our end.

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Originally by: Hexxx

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EBANK's acting CEO is Athre.

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Originally by: Hexxx

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As I mentioned before, Ricdic stole 200 Billion. This was almost entirely in cash. He "took the money and ran" as it were.

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Originally by: Hexxx

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Our major liabilities would, as usual, be our loans. However today we just had a 40 billion loan repaid.

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Originally by: Hexxx

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Our internal auditor was Selene. We have not had time yet to find a replacement.

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Originally by: cosmoray

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So according to LVV, Ricdic gave an unsecured loan of 275B, AND then scammed 200B+.

That is a huge difference if correct.

That means nearly 500B is gone, and that is 25% of capital. A huge amount

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Quote:

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Why has it been 2 months yet, and still you don't have information on a 250-400bil isk unsecured loan? You have the answer you just don't like the answer so say you don't have one yet is the way I take it atm.

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Ricdic gave an unsecured loan to the tune of 275billion. There's nothing more to that. Ricdic was incompetent, and it made us lose ISK. However, our reserve could easily handle that, leaving us no problem to keep on going without a problem.

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Great you hired new employee's who are they?

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In the last bit of time, we have had a few new tellers(Balogh and Calgorac), and Lady of Wrath who has helped us sell old collateral.
Calgoracleft shortly after he was hired, however.

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What are you going to do about people that still deposited isk after this happend since you failed the public and didnt release anything up to 36hrs after?

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We are working on that.

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Why coldnt you state what you stated here 1hr after finding out? It seems to me nothing of much infomration is in there I didn't figure out without the sources EBANK has within about 30min.

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As for why we couldn't state it 1 hour after we found out, then I think you are being unreasonable, PP. As I have previously stated, we are involved in something bigger here than a scam, due to the involvment with RMT and real-life things.

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Originally by: DeODokktor

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Originally by: cosmoray

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So according to LVV, Ricdic gave an unsecured loan of 275B, AND then scammed 200B+.

That is a huge difference if correct.

That means nearly 500B is gone, and that is 25% of capital. A huge amount

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It might be..
But if they were getting a net profit of 10% per MONTH then they should be okay to cover all losses (given time, and no mass withdrawl of funds).

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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We have managed to build up a very good reserve, which will be put to use now. That's why we made it, should *** hit the fan.

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Ricdic gave an unsecured loan to the tune of 275billion. There's nothing more to that. Ricdic was incompetent, and it made us lose ISK. However, our reserve could easily handle that, leaving us no problem to keep on going without a problem.

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As for why we couldn't state it 1 hour after we found out, then I think you are being unreasonable, PP. As I have previously stated, we are involved in something bigger here than a scam, due to the involvment with RMT and real-life things.

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Originally by: Tellnan Matkiel

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PP

Already in the other thread you have retract and correct a "fact" you boldly stated at the start.

Currently, why should I trust anything you have to say more than someone else, especially when you clearly have an axe to grind, and probably a fair degree of personal enmity in this?

Pardon me if faced with two stalwarts of the forum facing off, I tend to trust the one who keeps his tone reasonable and doesn't mouth off with threats and blackmail.

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Originally by: cosmoray

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So according to LVV, Ricdic gave an unsecured loan of 275B, AND then scammed 200B+.

That is a huge difference if correct.

That means nearly 500B is gone, and that is 25% of capital. A huge amount

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Originally by: Confuzer

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So Ric also gave a loan of 275 to his friends/alts and then run of with 200.

Nice profit for him there.

How can you ever allow someone to transfer that amount in isk in one go?

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Originally by: Proton Power

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And they hired good people, i have zero issues with who they hired, I dont' see why they dont post it. There is zero reason to hide who they have helping them.

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Originally by: cosmoray

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The risk of putting your money in EBANK has significantly increased.

There is now NO justification having money in EBANK in accounts not earning any interest.

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Originally by: cosmoray

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3% savings rate is no longer high enough to justify the risk.

There may arguments about EBANK being the gold standard and lowest risk, but not anymore.
Only entities that have not scammed move up the table by default.

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Does that means that you had no intention of revealing it because you could cover it silently?

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RMT has to be dealt with by CCP, it causes no more charge on you. Real life things are to be dealt with in real life, not by you, not here. I see no aditional work for you in that issues.

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Originally by: Hexxx

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Originally by: cosmoray

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So according to LVV, Ricdic gave an unsecured loan of 275B, AND then scammed 200B+.

That is a huge difference if correct.

That means nearly 500B is gone, and that is 25% of capital. A huge amount

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We had a bunch of withdraws, but currently we have 2.3 Trillion in deposits, which means that 475 total is 20% of deposits. Prior to the withdraw rush we had 2.45 Trillion I believe. However....everybody seems to forget that we had a sizable surplus. EBANK was very profitable.

Yes, EBANK took a hit. We could have been fine if Ricdic hadn't scammed but his scam hit us just as we absorbed a large default. We're going to have to shrink a little to reduce liabilities and boost our profits - effectively this means that instead of focusing on growth, we'll focus on profitability to regain our footing.

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Originally by: cosmoray

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No matter what statements EBANK make, their most senior member scammed public funds so your credit risk HAS TO GO UP.

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Originally by: Motivated Prophet

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Originally by: cosmoray

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The risk of putting your money in EBANK has significantly increased.

There is now NO justification having money in EBANK in accounts not earning any interest.

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There ever was? Even if EBank were run by CCP, Mother Theresa, and Gandhi, why justification would there have been for keeping ISK in accounts that don't earn interest?

Originally by: cosmoray

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3% savings rate is no longer high enough to justify the risk.

There may arguments about EBANK being the gold standard and lowest risk, but not anymore.
Only entities that have not scammed move up the table by default.

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So you demand higher interest rates from your bank when one of its loans default, even if the risk of default was priced into the loan and doesn't affect the long-term financial stability of the bank?

The bank hasn't scammed; everyone's promised ISK is still there. Some of the bank's profit margin has disappeared; the directors probably won't get paid this month. Keep this in perspective.

MP

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Originally by: SentryRaven

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The simple reason is that is not really relevant, is it? There is zero reason to actually post it.

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Why did you not let the public know about it much sooner so you would only be dealing wiht one drama bomb today instead of 2.

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Originally by: Proton

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Who else have you hired? And why have you hidden those names to this point. (makes zero sense to me)

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Originally by: Hexxx

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Originally by: cosmoray

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So according to LVV, Ricdic gave an unsecured loan of 275B, AND then scammed 200B+.

That is a huge difference if correct.

That means nearly 500B is gone, and that is 25% of capital. A huge amount

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We had a bunch of withdraws, but currently we have 2.3 Trillion in deposits, which means that 475 total is 20% of deposits. Prior to the withdraw rush we had 2.45 Trillion I believe. However....everybody seems to forget that we had a sizable surplus. EBANK was very profitable.

Yes, EBANK took a hit. We could have been fine if Ricdic hadn't scammed but his scam hit us just as we absorbed a large default. We're going to have to shrink a little to reduce liabilities and boost our profits - effectively this means that instead of focusing on growth, we'll focus on profitability to regain our footing.

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Originally by: Adrimar

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Thank you for the email of warning.

However I did not like the fact that my email address, thankfully one of my throwaway addresses that I use only for eve, was given to many other people who hold ebank accounts.

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Originally by: Block Ukx

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Hexxx,
Thanks for your reply. I have a few more questions.

Originally by: Hexxx

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Some of your questions I can't answer - our liquidity as of yesterday was 400 billion to 500 billion. This number is in flux though because of withdraws and liquidations on our end.

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What is your plan if the BANKÆs withdrawal requests exceeds your liquidity?
I imagine that part of the plan is to raise additional cash via bonds. However, I believe you are going to have a hard time raising more than 200 B, at which point the bank will be forced to cash out its assets. Which brings me to a few new questions: who will it be in charge of liquidating the assets? And would the banning of ricdic characters will affect your ability to unlock part of the bankÆs assets?

Block, I would recommend bonds, an IPO (which I'd really like to avoid), or even private loans. We've had numerous offers of private loans. I'd like to say again that while this is an option, we don't have any immediate liquidity concerns.

Originally by: Hexxx

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EBANK's acting CEO is Athre.

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Why Athre and not you? DonÆt you think is more prudent you become acting CEO during this potential crisis?

My role is and continues to be the Chairman of the Board. My role is focused on strategy, not on operations. Athre is one of our best people on the operational side and is extremely capable. I have full faith in her.

Originally by: Hexxx

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As I mentioned before, Ricdic stole 200 Billion. This was almost entirely in cash. He "took the money and ran" as it were.

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Did he had any locked BPOÆs in any of his ghost corporation?

We had people in any corporation that Ricdic had BPO's in. To our best knowledge, he stole no BPO's.

Originally by: Hexxx

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Our major liabilities would, as usual, be our loans. However today we just had a 40 billion loan repaid.

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Are these secured or unsecured loans? And who holds the assets used for security?

Hard to answer this; we do three types of loans. Secured, partially secured, and unsecured. Secured loans are the most common, unsecured are the least common, and partially secured fall in the middle. Collateral is held by the EBANK corporation, not individuals....we don't believe any collateral has been lost.

Originally by: Hexxx

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Our internal auditor was Selene. We have not had time yet to find a replacement.

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Any chance I can view this audit?

Selene didn't complete the audit.

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Originally by: Hexxx

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Why would investors accept non-paying account and interest accounts that pay 3% per month.
The risk profile of EBANK has shot up and 3% is no longer a fair reflection of risk.
No matter what statements EBANK make, their most senior member scammed public funds so your credit risk HAS TO GO UP.

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Quote:

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Why just post it now when others figured it out prior?

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Because this is bigger than just a simple scam. As you might have noticed, Hexxx mentioned RMT. RMT isn't as simple as you think.

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Originally by: mazzilliu

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im just waiting for the day that e-bank collapses due to either someone running off with all the money and running or else going under all the CCP penalties after ISK sellers start using it to launder their ISK.

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First of all, nobody can run away with all the ISK at all. We distribute risk. The most anybody can run away with, is like 30bill at best. That's 10 days worth of interest for us.

In regards to ISK sellers, we actively monitor for that. So that won't ever cause EBANK to collapse.

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Originally by: SentryRaven

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Why did you not let the public know about it much sooner so you would only be dealing wiht one drama bomb today instead of 2.

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What reason would there be to make the default public?

Originally by: Proton

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Who else have you hired? And why have you hidden those names to this point. (makes zero sense to me)

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Again, why is this relevant?

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Originally by: Heroldyn

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Is it possible for ebank to give information about the current withdrawel-que as to an estimate of how long ebank customers can currently expect to wait for their withdrawels to be processed ?

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Originally by: Motivated Prophet

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So you demand higher interest rates from your bank when one of its loans default, even if the risk of default was priced into the loan and doesn't affect the long-term financial stability of the bank?

The bank hasn't scammed; everyone's promised ISK is still there. Some of the bank's profit margin has disappeared; the directors probably won't get paid this month. Keep this in perspective.

MP

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Originally by: SentryRaven

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Originally by: Proton Power

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And they hired good people, i have zero issues with who they hired, I dont' see why they dont post it. There is zero reason to hide who they have helping them.

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The simple reason is that is not really relevant, is it? There is zero reason to actually post it.

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Originally by: Cordele

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Ric has always been EBANK's biggest liability. He was involved in EIB, and the amount of control he was allowed to exercise over EBANK's funds (which you and the other EBANK members were always quick to defend when it was questioned) was always deeply suspicious.

It's a shame, because I believe most of those involved in EBANK are honest, talented and dedicated people, but the bank deserves to fail because of this.

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Originally by: SentryRaven

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Why did you not let the public know about it much sooner so you would only be dealing wiht one drama bomb today instead of 2.

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What reason would there be to make the default public?

Originally by: Proton

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Who else have you hired? And why have you hidden those names to this point. (makes zero sense to me)

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Again, why is this relevant?

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Originally by: Heroldyn

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Is it possible for ebank to give information about the current withdrawel-que as to an estimate of how long ebank customers can currently expect to wait for their withdrawels to be processed ?

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Originally by: SentryRaven

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Originally by: Heroldyn

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Is it possible for ebank to give information about the current withdrawel-que as to an estimate of how long ebank customers can currently expect to wait for their withdrawels to be processed ?

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We are processing withdrawals within our standard 48h SLA.

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Screw it **** me off and here is what you get.

The answers are -

You have hired Ladyofwrath which I have zero issue of, but let the public know. It was a simple freaken answer.

Why does it matter?

LOW runs another IPO, those that invested may like to know everything LOW is running do to burnout reasons or possible scam reasons with access to possibly ebank isk and his ipo isk? I doubt either would happen but people need to know.

I am making a much longer in detail post about the loans, people can then see why your concerned about it.

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Originally by: Saehta

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Edited by: Saehta on 10/06/2009 14:42:07
Edited by: Saehta on 10/06/2009 14:40:45

Originally by: Proton Power

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Screw it **** me off and here is what you get.

The answers are -

You have hired Ladyofwrath which I have zero issue of, but let the public know. It was a simple freaken answer.

Why does it matter?

LOW runs another IPO, those that invested may like to know everything LOW is running do to burnout reasons or possible scam reasons with access to possibly ebank isk and his ipo isk? I doubt either would happen but people need to know.

I am making a much longer in detail post about the loans, people can then see why your concerned about it.

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could have sworn they said lady of wrath, backtracking ...
EDIT: yeah post 32
Edit, knocked out unneeded quote

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Originally by: Jas Dor

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Proton Power I have two questions for you:

1. Is your main still in a GBC affiliated corp?
Yes, BoB(Kenny)

2. BoB(Kenny) is in the middle of a major push to retake space in 0.0 right now. Are you attempting to create a run on EBANK for reasons of 0.0 politics?
LOL, I am not the one that scammed, I am the one that brought it to light, I am not the one that scammed a 250bil isk Loan, why are you bringing politics into this, maybe somthing scares you about the info I know?

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

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Originally by: Cordele

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Ric has always been EBANK's biggest liability. He was involved in EIB, and the amount of control he was allowed to exercise over EBANK's funds (which you and the other EBANK members were always quick to defend when it was questioned) was always deeply suspicious.

It's a shame, because I believe most of those involved in EBANK are honest, talented and dedicated people, but the bank deserves to fail because of this.

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I was talking about tellers, etc.

EBANK Ricdic was, obviously, always higher risk.

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Originally by: Jas Dor

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Proton Power I have two questions for you:

1. Is your main still in a GBC affiliated corp?

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Originally by: Jas Dor

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2. BoB(Kenny) is in the middle of a major push to retake space in 0.0 right now. Are you attempting to create a run on EBANK for reasons of 0.0 politics?

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Originally by: Jas Dor

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2. BoB(Kenny) is in the middle of a major push to retake space in 0.0 right now. Are you attempting to create a run on EBANK for reasons of 0.0 politics?

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Originally by: SentryRaven

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Why did you not let the public know about it much sooner so you would only be dealing wiht one drama bomb today instead of 2.

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What reason would there be to make the default public?

Originally by: Proton

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Who else have you hired? And why have you hidden those names to this point. (makes zero sense to me)

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Again, why is this relevant?

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Screw it **** me off and here is what you get.

The answers are -

You have hired Ladyofwrath which I have zero issue of, but let the public know. It was a simple freaken answer.

Why does it matter?

LOW runs another IPO, those that invested may like to know everything LOW is running do to burnout reasons or possible scam reasons with access to possibly ebank isk and his ipo isk? I doubt either would happen but people need to know.

I am making a much longer in detail post about the loans, people can then see why your concerned about it.

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Originally by: Proton Power

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You have hired Ladyofwrath which I have zero issue of, but let the public know. It was a simple freaken answer.

Why does it matter?

LOW runs another IPO, those that invested may like to know everything LOW is running do to burnout reasons or possible scam reasons with access to possibly ebank isk and his ipo isk? I doubt either would happen but people need to know.

I am making a much longer in detail post about the loans, people can then see why your concerned about it.

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Originally by: LoW

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I currently advise within EBANK. I assume that is what he was referring to.

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Now kia is going to make me a target per MSN conversations, oh no, you going to take more of our space we don't own atm?

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Originally by: SentryRaven

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Now kia is going to make me a target per MSN conversations, oh no, you going to take more of our space we don't own atm?

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Actually no, no need for that. But you could have used that MSN conversation to get your facts straight. None of the ISK is within KIA, it was defaulted by a corp in KIA that subsequently used our relationship to EBANK to get the loan approved in the first place. Welp.

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Originally by: Proton Power

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ROFL. I have been asking you guys to post the facts for 12hrs now. If the corp is in Kia then it's on kia. But again I did mention that I don't think you guys had complete control of the situation as I knew it.

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Originally by: SentryRaven

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Originally by: Proton Power

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ROFL. I have been asking you guys to post the facts for 12hrs now. If the corp is in Kia then it's on kia. But again I did mention that I don't think you guys had complete control of the situation as I knew it.

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Actually that's the problem. They defaulted and left KIA afterwards.

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Seems you are talking sensable atm, so will ask you this then, why has it taken 2mths to research this, seems obvious to me with the titan issue, the fact they left kia and not paid anything on the loan (and I think told you they were not going to) that it was going to default?

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Originally by: Jas Dor

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Proton Power I have two questions for you:

1. Is your main still in a GBC affiliated corp?
Yes, BoB(Kenny)

2. BoB(Kenny) is in the middle of a major push to retake space in 0.0 right now. Are you attempting to create a run on EBANK for reasons of 0.0 politics?
LOL, I am not the one that scammed, I am the one that brought it to light, I am not the one that scammed a 250bil isk Loan, why are you bringing politics into this, maybe somthing scares you about the info I know?

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Originally by: SentryRaven

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None of the ISK is within KIA, it was defaulted by a corp in KIA that subsequently used our relationship to EBANK to get the loan approved in the first place. Welp.

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f the corp is in Kia then it's on kia.

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Originally by: Heroldyn

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Is it possible for ebank to give information about the current withdrawel-que as to an estimate of how long ebank customers can currently expect to wait for their withdrawels to be processed ?

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Originally by: Zimsai

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, why you only get 3% interest is, because ebank has to make enough profit for a "worst case scenario" which just happened... and it looks like they can handle it, so why should any of the customers lose any trust into this bank?
they just showed that they can handle the absolutely worst case scenario.

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Originally by: The ChurchWarden

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Proton Power I have a few questions for you. Why if you had this information did you not release it in one lump statement for Ebank to then respond to? Why have you continiously hinted at you're 'known information' multiple times before simply revealing it? I would say it is obvious that now that this is all in the spotlight that Ebank is dealing with it in their own manner and any promptings from you are being ignored or are irrelevant. That being said if you have any more information can you simply release it in your next post instead of adding more nonsense to the thread?

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Originally by: Jas Dor

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Now that Seleen is working for CCP

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Originally by: Kalrand

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Originally by: SentryRaven

---

None of the ISK is within KIA, it was defaulted by a corp in KIA that subsequently used our relationship to EBANK to get the loan approved in the first place. Welp.

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f the corp is in Kia then it's on kia.

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It doesn't work like that.

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Originally by: Kalrand

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Originally by: SentryRaven

---

None of the ISK is within KIA, it was defaulted by a corp in KIA that subsequently used our relationship to EBANK to get the loan approved in the first place. Welp.

---

f the corp is in Kia then it's on kia.

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It doesn't work like that.

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Originally by: azalea anastasia

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So Dbank , balls in your court

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Originally by: SentryRaven

---

Now the loss of 200B by Ricdic's misconduct is something entirely different as we have information that we cannot reveal (EULA/TOS stuff) and that we need to work on how to present them. Transparency is a fine thing, but we can't make stuff as transparent as people would want, without hurting ourselves, legally or financially.

---

Originally by: The ChurchWarden

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I'm sure quite a few people in the MD community have one or more Ebank members on their MSN. They're a very helpful group of people. I'm also sure that we would have had an official statement about all of this without you 'blowing the whistle' an then proceeding to string along people with unverified information.

I'd really like to point out what you just said. You confirmed you were unclear on facts yourself and yet you're threatening to release information? So exactly what would you be releasing? Facts or Speculation.

On a final note, maybe they were delaying the statement about Ricdic being banned to try and drum up some more liquid isk? As for the loan I'm not overly concerned about a loan that default if they can absorb the loss.

---

Originally by: Zero Uptick

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Originally by: SentryRaven

---

Now the loss of 200B by Ricdic's misconduct is something entirely different as we have information that we cannot reveal (EULA/TOS stuff) and that we need to work on how to present them. Transparency is a fine thing, but we can't make stuff as transparent as people would want, without hurting ourselves, legally or financially.

---

Sounds like you guys are all involved in shady stuff and I hope CCP is looking at it.

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Originally by: Jas Dor

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Now that Seleen is working for CCP the EBANK board seems tilted to one side of the 0.0 political spectrum.

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Originally by: Krathos Morpheus

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Originally by: azalea anastasia

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So Dbank , balls in your court

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If this happens on DBank, the bank is no more. Dbank rests on one man only.

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Originally by: azalea anastasia

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Edited by: azalea anastasia on 10/06/2009 15:47:20

Originally by: Krathos Morpheus

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Originally by: azalea anastasia

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So Dbank , balls in your court

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If this happens on DBank, the bank is no more. Dbank rests on one man only.

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http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=978589 , as the world turns

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Originally by: Jas Dor

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Proton Power I have two questions for you:

1. Is your main still in a GBC affiliated corp?

2. BoB(Kenny) is in the middle of a major push to retake space in 0.0 right now. Are you attempting to create a run on EBANK for reasons of 0.0 politics?

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Originally by: Krathos Morpheus

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Originally by: Kalrand

---

Originally by: Proton Power

---

Originally by: SentryRaven

---

None of the ISK is within KIA, it was defaulted by a corp in KIA that subsequently used our relationship to EBANK to get the loan approved in the first place. Welp.

---

f the corp is in Kia then it's on kia.

---

It doesn't work like that.

---

It works like they get the loan because they were on KIA and it looks like KIA has special treatment within EBANK, so it is one of two things: KIA backed the loan or EBANK staff were incompetent and didn't checked KIA aproving the loan on their name.

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Originally by: Saehta

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Originally by: Kalrand

---

Originally by: Proton Power

---

Originally by: SentryRaven

---

None of the ISK is within KIA, it was defaulted by a corp in KIA that subsequently used our relationship to EBANK to get the loan approved in the first place. Welp.

---

f the corp is in Kia then it's on kia.

---

It doesn't work like that.

---

So they can invoke KIA's name with the bank for loans but when they default it doesn't bring down KIA's rep. Gotcha

---

Quote:

---

EBANK Ricdic is still listed as staff

---

Quote:

---

FAQ pages lists EBANK Ricdic all over it

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Quote:

---

While the EBANK deposit warning mail this morning from LaViasta was nice the fact that everyone's email was disclosed to anyone on the list was a major error.

---

Quote:

---

someone tried to set up a fake deposit char within the hour.

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Quote:

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but things this major should be brought out into the light of day.

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Originally by: Emywn Vanya

---

and @ ricdic... dude you know you could have just asked for help with RL. Most of us know the position your in and your kids always come first.

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Originally by: Proton Power

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Again not a major deal on it's own, don't htink it was entirely Kia's fault either based on what I know, but shoud have been brought to the public's attention that they lost 250+ bil isk.

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Originally by: Esharan

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So its good he got banned and everything, but since when does CCP ban people for this sort of action? How did that break the EULA? It was my understanding that this was just a "risk" of investing...... part of the game ya know?

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Originally by: Esharan

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So its good he got banned and everything, but since when does CCP ban people for this sort of action? How did that break the EULA? It was my understanding that this was just a "risk" of investing...... part of the game ya know?

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Originally by: Esharan

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So its good he got banned and everything, but since when does CCP ban people for this sort of action? How did that break the EULA? It was my understanding that this was just a "risk" of investing...... part of the game ya know?

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Originally by: Meer Shadow

---

Originally by: Proton Power

---

Again not a major deal on it's own, don't htink it was entirely Kia's fault either based on what I know, but shoud have been brought to the public's attention that they lost 250+ bil isk.

---

Why do you say that? Isn't it standard banking practice to maintain client confidentiality? Especially as the loss did not compromise Ebanks ability to operate?

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Originally by: SentryRaven

---

Originally by: Esharan

---

So its good he got banned and everything, but since when does CCP ban people for this sort of action? How did that break the EULA? It was my understanding that this was just a "risk" of investing...... part of the game ya know?

---

Real Money Trading is a bannable offense.

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Originally by: Ulstan

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I guess my primary concern here is the utter lack of tools CCP has really given us to handle a secondary market.

First Furybank.

Now EBANK.

Even with the most gold plated institutions, there's nothing you can really do to prevent a scam or recover from a scam. You can try to mitigate the damage (as EBANK has done, wisely) or just choose not to invest at all.

I suspect more and more people are going to choose the not invest option, which does bad things for our already suffering secondary market.

---

Originally by: Emywn Vanya

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and @ ricdic... dude you know you could have just asked for help with RL. Most of us know the position your in and your kids always come first.

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Originally by: Sophia Truthspeaker

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I wonder how long back this started, as CCP isn't always the fastest with banning of RMT trader.

---

Originally by: Block Ukx

---

Originally by: Sophia Truthspeaker

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I wonder how long back this started, as CCP isn't always the fastest with banning of RMT trader.

---

I'm guessing a few months after the Bank started.

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Originally by: Kazzac Elentria

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Originally by: Block Ukx

---

Originally by: Sophia Truthspeaker

---

I wonder how long back this started, as CCP isn't always the fastest with banning of RMT trader.

---

I'm guessing a few months after the Bank started.

---

Possibly, I would actually put it later. Most like before Shar left the ebank crew over disagreements about operations.

---

Originally by: Block Ukx

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Originally by: Sophia Truthspeaker

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I wonder how long back this started, as CCP isn't always the fastest with banning of RMT trader.

---

I'm guessing a few months after the Bank started.

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Originally by: Tobin Shalim

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Honest question for those in charge at EBANK: if we did a deposit to Ricdic that we can prove wasn't processed (our wallet vs what the website says was deposited) then will you still honor the deposit? No, I do not think this has happened to me (yet, I haven't checked) but I believe this will be a valid concern for people.

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Originally by: Eton Favre

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someone tried to set up a fake deposit char within the hour.

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Originally by: Block Ukx

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Originally by: Kazzac Elentria

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Originally by: Block Ukx

---

I'm guessing a few months after the Bank started.

---

Possibly, I would actually put it later. Most like before Shar left the ebank crew over disagreements about operations.

---

I have a feeling he suspected it.

---

Quote:

---

and @ ricdic... dude you know you could have just asked for help with RL. Most of us know the position your in and your kids always come first.

---

Originally by: Sophia Truthspeaker

---

Originally by: Block Ukx

---

Originally by: Kazzac Elentria

---

Originally by: Block Ukx

---

I'm guessing a few months after the Bank started.

---

Possibly, I would actually put it later. Most like before Shar left the ebank crew over disagreements about operations.

---

I have a feeling he suspected it.

---

A few months would already be worrisome... nearly two years is beyond that.. and hopefully beyond the investigation time of ccp, too...

My impression is and was that Shar left, because he thought Ricdic as a risk. Not in the 'grab und run' way, but in the 'lets pimp my CNR with 50 billions and fall asleep in a lvl 4' way... or if you so will in the 'lets loan 200 billion to someone without collateral' way.

Either way... that audit would have to be pretty detailed and with a fine sieve, just in case.

---

Originally by: Hexxx

---

I'll cut right to the chase;

Ricdic, Ricdics and EBANK Ricdic characters have been banned by CCP. We are in the process of emailing our customers with this information for those who have emails in our database. We're switching over to another deposit character and I'll confirm that when it's finished. You may have also noticed we are still handling withdraws....we intend to keep doing so.

Yesterday was a busy day. Here's what we know for certain...Ricdic has scammed and engaged in RMT. He stole roughly 200 Billion of our 2.3 Trillion in deposits (8.6%). We are in the process of getting a new deposit character in place and hope to have this completed by tonight. He might have gotten away with more but Amarr Citizen 155 and Athre were able to prevent that. Please give them your thanks; I know I do.

Short term strategy; EBANK is processing withdraws and shrinking...we expect this will happen organically but if we need to nudge it along we will.

Long term strategy; still under debate. We have a few options on the table and are debating the best way forward from here. If we need to raise additional capital (which we don't believe we have to do right now) then we have a few options we'll pursue.


Bottom line;

-EBANK Ricdic has been banned
-EBANK Ricdic is no longer the deposit character for EBANK
-EBANK Athre is the Interm CEO
-EBANK is processing withdraws
-EBANK is solvent and will take additional steps if capital infusions are required
-EBANK will post again on long term strategy once we finalize it

I hope that addresses some of the concerns and I also hope to post more later and provide updates. I appreciate the support some of our customers have expressed.

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Originally by: F90OEX

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If EBank needs 200-500bil I can provide that amount in a short/med term loan arrangement to help them out if needed.

I will be online for most of the day.

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Originally by: Pastiche

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My questions are thus:

1) Why wasn't Ricdic's access/involvement scaled back more? This isn't the first time he has caused trouble. There is ample evidence that he could be trouble in a very significant way. While I understand that EBank was his baby, thinking of the bank and it's customers would show a need to sideline him.

---

Quote:

---

1) Why wasn't Ricdic's access/involvement scaled back more? This isn't the first time he has caused trouble. There is ample evidence that he could be trouble in a very significant way. While I understand that EBank was his baby, thinking of the bank and it's customers would show a need to sideline him.

---

Quote:

---

2) Is there any effort or headway in getting the past 24-48 hours of API information from CCP? This there any recourse for information with CCP? I suspect as the economy of Eve grows more complex from the "let the players make it" view, the issue of banned/inactive accounts is going to come up more often.

---

Originally by: Hexxx

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EBANK Ricdic has been banned

---

Originally by: cosmoray

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The risk profile of EBANK has shot up and 3% is no longer a fair reflection of risk.

---

Originally by: SentryRaven

---

What reason would there be to make the default public?

---

Originally by: Tobin Shalim

---

If we did a deposit to EBANK Ricdic that we can prove wasn't processed (our wallet vs. what the website says was deposited) then will you still honor the deposit?

---

Quote:

---

Have all of Ricdic's many alts been banned? I realise that only the one was an official conduit for EBANK deposits, but knowing this would go a long way toward 'full disclosure' of EBANK-linked characters that should no longer be trusted.

---

Quote:

---

Simply as a part of normal ongoing reporting. If it was two months ago, should it not have showed up in the bank's last monthly report? Or was it only DBANK that was doing somewhat-regular report?

---

Quote:

---

An official position on this would be welcome. To maintain the privacy of depositors, the bank could hire an external auditor to API-verify claimed deposits before honouring them.

---

Originally by: cosmoray

---

Two other thinmgs that interest me:

1. I wonder why Ric didn't go through with his 100B+ Titan bond because he could have picked up some extra free ISk's.
Maybe he did the SCAM after that date.

---

Originally by: LaVista Vista

---

We are working on a solution to it. At this point, it seems like a GM will have to be involved in recovering any ISK people might have deposited, after he got banned. And then we would have to establish a new deposit character.

---

Originally by: Zero Uptick

---

Originally by: LaVista Vista

---

We are working on a solution to it. At this point, it seems like a GM will have to be involved in recovering any ISK people might have deposited, after he got banned. And then we would have to establish a new deposit character.

---

You can't seriously think the GMs will do anything to help. That character is banned.

---

Originally by: LaVista Vista

---

Quote:

---

The bank could hire an external auditor to API-verify claimed deposits before honouring them.

---

We couldn't possibly. The API won't report anything for banned accounts.

We are working on a solution to it. At this point, it seems like a GM will have to be involved in recovering any ISK people might have deposited, after he got banned. And then we would have to establish a new deposit character.

---

Originally by: Pink Kiwi

---

Why are deposits made to a character and not a corporation? It would seem that using a corporation would prevent a problem like this from happening in the future.

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Originally by: strcpy

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I wander when CCP will create a concord bank and stop this "banks". Nice scenario guys.

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Originally by: PuncherDavis

---

HEllo all.

My understanding from the first initial post was that Riddic was banned for RMT..Real money transfer I think it means.. Or something close to that in meaning. SInce that is a big no no I can see him getting his accounts banned. Wonder how much 200 billion is worth in real dollars..kind of scary..

And im not going to sermonize. But eve is a game..safest place for your cash is in your wallet or hard assests.

Also was selene a part of the riddic thing or alts. I thought he was a seperate player but i may be incorrect. Please correct me if IM wrong

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Originally by: Ray McCormack

---

Originally by: Pink Kiwi

---

Why are deposits made to a character and not a corporation? It would seem that using a corporation would prevent a problem like this from happening in the future.

---

That's a good suggestion. I think it was kept to a character for historical reasons and not wanting to have to make the changeover. Now that they're forced to it might be an idea.

LV will you post this on internal forums and take it into consideration?

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Originally by: Ray McCormack

---

Originally by: Pink Kiwi

---

Why are deposits made to a character and not a corporation? It would seem that using a corporation would prevent a problem like this from happening in the future.

---

That's a good suggestion. I think it was kept to a character for historical reasons and not wanting to have to make the changeover. Now that they're forced to it might be an idea.

LV will you post this on internal forums and take it into consideration?

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Originally by: Hariya

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WTF? They banned a person for playing PVP in a pure PVP game? How ****ing lame can CCP get

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Originally by: Narita

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Originally by: strcpy

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I wander when CCP will create a concord bank and stop this "banks". Nice scenario guys.

---

You already have a "CONCORD bank". It's called your personal wallet. They keep your cash perfectly secure.

You're expecting NPCs to pay interest? How? They don't do anything. Stop dreaming, interest-paying is only the domain of players. You don't get isk for free.

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Originally by: Ray McCormack

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Reserved.

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Originally by: RaTTuS

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Originally by: Ray McCormack

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Reserved.

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Ray fix up your Prowler Auction sig

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Originally by: Ulstan

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I guess my primary concern here is the utter lack of tools CCP has really given us to handle a secondary market.

---

Originally by: RaTTuS

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It's still there - the auction is finished ...

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Originally by: Mortifiyr

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If you could get $10 per billion that would mean $2,000 of RL money for 200b isk. Thats a mortgage payment, or a down payment on a car.

---

Originally by: Selene D'Celeste

---

Edited by: Selene D''Celeste on 10/06/2009 18:48:55
You're all jerks for spamming after my reserved slots (which are now full of tl;dr text).

---

Originally by: Block Ukx

---

Originally by: Pastiche

---

My questions are thus:

1) Why wasn't Ricdic's access/involvement scaled back more? This isn't the first time he has caused trouble. There is ample evidence that he could be trouble in a very significant way. While I understand that EBank was his baby, thinking of the bank and it's customers would show a need to sideline him.

---

While I donÆt condone RicdicÆs actions, EBANK managed to raise 2+ Trillion because of Ricdic. There is no doubt in my mind that none of the present EBANK employees would have raised that amount without Ricdic. Even ccp loved Ricdic.

---

Originally by: Selene D'Celeste

---

Edited by: Selene D''Celeste on 10/06/2009 18:47:31
Now that at least half a day of threadnaught ****storm is underway, and the remaining EBANK board and staff are too busy sorting out this mess to retort to a lot of the nonsense here, let me set a few things straight.

First, let no one be mistaken, Proton Power is not some heroic whistleblower nor deserving of the least amount of praise. His posts here and in my resignation thread, as well as his attitudes in conversations in-game, clearly show his interest lies in drama, attention, and self-righteousness. There is a right way and a wrong way to make information come to the public if it is high time it happened, and you chose the wrong way. You are, if nothing else, only showing your true nature, which I long suspected while you were at EBANK: self-serving, self-important, and self-centered. What you claim to be doing here could have easily been accomplished in a much healthier fashion. Allow me to demonstrate how this is properly done:

I wish to clarify the following issues:

1) Defaulted EBANK loans.
2) Oversight and accounting.
3) Why panic is useless.

1) When EBANK was still young it was decided that full collateral wasn't needed on all loans, since certain situations and individuals warranted different levels of security and hedging. This was an acceptable practice as long as the potential losses via disasters with unsecured loans could be managed to be absorbable in a worst-case scenario. An obvious indicator of this practice was that for many months, no one at EBANK received a salary, and even now that salary is token enough that few if any employees can fund a single account on a GTC with said salary. This created a buffer for absorbing such losses.

Anyway, the "big defaulted loan" in question here was originally smaller than any of the numbers thrown around so far, and was not randomly thrown out to some guy in KIA, as proposed elsewhere in this thread. The initial loan was to KIAEddz for logistical operations, and the debate over whether this was an acceptable loan to make went on for weeks. In the end, it was agreed upon that this was a risk worth taking due to KIA being a stable alliance, Eddz being a public persona who could be trusted more than most, and the amount being absorbable in a worst case scenario.

As EBANK grew so did KIA, and that loan was responsible for a large amount of EBANK income, and so it went through multiple expansion phases. Looking back, it was probably too much in one place, but for the most part it stayed an absorbable loss in a worst-case, and there was no reason to believe it could just disappear. At its peak there was probably 400 B owed, but the modified amount of 250 B is much more accurate as to its current state. As I said, it was one of the most profitable investments in EBANK, and it was regularly bringing money in as it was paid down.

The real failure of EBANK on this loan lies with, annoyingly enough, Ricdic. It was to my understanding, and I assume the understanding of others, that since this was a loan to Eddz that he would be responsible for direct oversight and would be protecting said investment. This was incorrect, and two months ago it was revealed that all logistical assets purchased from the loan resided in an individual KIA corporation which Eddz was not in control of, and said corporation left KIA for another alliance. EBANK's silence on the matter was due to negotiations to try and transfer the loan to this group, which has so far been unsuccessful, to my knowledge. I do not believe that this was negligence on Eddz's part, but that the understanding for where the ISK was going and how safe it was going to be was not clearly conveyed. Whether that was intentional by Ricdic or not I don't know, nor remember clearly.

---

Originally by: Roemy Schneider

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i'll accept your flames -.-

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Originally by: Proton Power

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I agree if they would have posted it when I told them they should it would have been much differnt. Instead they left it to me.

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Originally by: Jana Zypher

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Originally by: Proton Power

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I agree if they would have posted it when I told them they should it would have been much differnt. Instead they left it to me.

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I am an innocent bystander but you look like an attention w.hore to me, tbqf.

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Originally by: Proton Power

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I agree if they would have posted it when I told them they should it would have been much differnt. Instead they left it to me.

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Originally by: Proton Power

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I agree if they would have posted it when I told them they should it would have been much differnt. Instead they left it to me.

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Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155

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Originally by: Proton Power

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I agree if they would have posted it when I told them they should it would have been much differnt. Instead they left it to me.

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Ahh the savior of MD. Jesus you sound so much like Ric sometimes. Is that 15 minutes up yet?

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Originally by: Ray McCormack

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Originally by: Roemy Schneider

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i'll accept your flames -.-

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Pfft, go invest in ISS.

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Originally by: Selene D'Celeste

---

Indeed, my original label of PP as a mini-Ricdic wasn't far off, since you do act just like him when he'd go off on an immature rant. If you come to any sense of decency, I propose apologies to your friends and refraining from prancing around these threads any more.

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Originally by: Proton Power

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My friends?

The ones that I gave the choice and said post somthing before I do, and told me no?

The ones that let people deposit isk into a character that is banned and those people may never get that isk back?

The ones that have threatend me?

Which friends?

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Originally by: Roemy Schneider

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Originally by: Ray McCormack

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Originally by: Roemy Schneider

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i'll accept your flames -.-

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Pfft, go invest in ISS.

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**** i need an MD posting alt :D

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