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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
TheVad
Amarr Metalworks
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Posted - 2009.06.10 13:59:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Leowen I'm surprised. I didn't see this coming.
I have preached in this forum many times though, that the EBANK institution (and DBANK for that matter) just offers a more complex version of an unsecured bond. Regardless of complexity of mechanisms and auditing, scamming is possible, and so depositing carries a risk. That risk is not adequately recognised in the interest rates offered. Thus I have never invested in any bank, I prefer to hold hundreds of billions of idle ISK in my account than trust it to someone else.
The secondary market in EVE can work, but there is WAAAAAYYYY too much naivety and trust at play. A formal game mechanic needs to come in, and/or the return rates need to increase dramatically so that risk matched reward. Until then as far as I'm concerned anyone investing in anyone else is just waiting for a hiding.
No offence to any remaining EBANK staff is intended in this post. I just think the system is and always has been very questionable.
The difference is our assests and thus the risk is distributed across 10+ people. Most secondary market options do not have this model in place. This is why we can and will always be able to limit the damage of any one person taking isk and running. The whole is greater then any one part.
TheVad
EBANK Staff| www.eve-bank.net
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2009.06.10 14:00:00 -
[32]
Quote: Why has it been 2 months yet, and still you don't have information on a 250-400bil isk unsecured loan? You have the answer you just don't like the answer so say you don't have one yet is the way I take it atm.
Ricdic gave an unsecured loan to the tune of 275billion. There's nothing more to that. Ricdic was incompetent, and it made us lose ISK. However, our reserve could easily handle that, leaving us no problem to keep on going without a problem.
Quote: Great you hired new employee's who are they?
In the last bit of time, we have had a few new tellers(Balogh and Calgorac), and Lady of Wrath who has helped us sell old collateral. Calgoracleft shortly after he was hired, however.
Quote: What are you going to do about people that still deposited isk after this happend since you failed the public and didnt release anything up to 36hrs after?
We are working on that.
Quote: Why coldnt you state what you stated here 1hr after finding out? It seems to me nothing of much infomration is in there I didn't figure out without the sources EBANK has within about 30min.
As for why we couldn't state it 1 hour after we found out, then I think you are being unreasonable, PP. As I have previously stated, we are involved in something bigger here than a scam, due to the involvment with RMT and real-life things.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2009.06.10 14:01:00 -
[33]
Hexxx, Thanks for your reply. I have a few more questions.
Originally by: Hexxx
Some of your questions I can't answer - our liquidity as of yesterday was 400 billion to 500 billion. This number is in flux though because of withdraws and liquidations on our end.
What is your plan if the BANKĘs withdrawal requests exceeds your liquidity? I imagine that part of the plan is to raise additional cash via bonds. However, I believe you are going to have a hard time raising more than 200 B, at which point the bank will be forced to cash out its assets. Which brings me to a few new questions: who will it be in charge of liquidating the assets? And would the banning of ricdic characters will affect your ability to unlock part of the bankĘs assets?
Originally by: Hexxx
EBANK's acting CEO is Athre.
Why Athre and not you? DonĘt you think is more prudent you become acting CEO during this potential crisis?
Originally by: Hexxx
As I mentioned before, Ricdic stole 200 Billion. This was almost entirely in cash. He "took the money and ran" as it were.
Did he had any locked BPOĘs in any of his ghost corporation?
Originally by: Hexxx
Our major liabilities would, as usual, be our loans. However today we just had a 40 billion loan repaid.
Are these secured or unsecured loans? And who holds the assets used for security?
Originally by: Hexxx
Our internal auditor was Selene. We have not had time yet to find a replacement.
Any chance I can view this audit?
BSAC Mineral Market Manipulation (MinMa) Information Desk |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2009.06.10 14:02:00 -
[34]
So according to LVV, Ricdic gave an unsecured loan of 275B, AND then scammed 200B+.
That is a huge difference if correct.
That means nearly 500B is gone, and that is 25% of capital. A huge amount
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DeODokktor
Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium
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Posted - 2009.06.10 14:07:00 -
[35]
Originally by: cosmoray So according to LVV, Ricdic gave an unsecured loan of 275B, AND then scammed 200B+.
That is a huge difference if correct.
That means nearly 500B is gone, and that is 25% of capital. A huge amount
It might be.. But if they were getting a net profit of 10% per MONTH then they should be okay to cover all losses (given time, and no mass withdrawl of funds). |
Saehta
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Posted - 2009.06.10 14:07:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Saehta on 10/06/2009 14:09:03 Was thinking that (Edit: what cosmoray stated). What Hexxx said was true in his OP. Just not the whole truth. (Edit: doesnt matter if they can cover it, point is it wasnt reported as part of the loss with ridics departure. True they didnt occur at the same time but I would lump them together in this)
Perhaps rates should be raised to at least beat Dbanks... |
Proton Power
Amarr Relentless Construction
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Posted - 2009.06.10 14:08:00 -
[37]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Quote: Why has it been 2 months yet, and still you don't have information on a 250-400bil isk unsecured loan? You have the answer you just don't like the answer so say you don't have one yet is the way I take it atm.
Ricdic gave an unsecured loan to the tune of 275billion. There's nothing more to that. Ricdic was incompetent, and it made us lose ISK. However, our reserve could easily handle that, leaving us no problem to keep on going without a problem.
Quote: Great you hired new employee's who are they?
In the last bit of time, we have had a few new tellers(Balogh and Calgorac), and Lady of Wrath who has helped us sell old collateral. Calgoracleft shortly after he was hired, however.
Quote: What are you going to do about people that still deposited isk after this happend since you failed the public and didnt release anything up to 36hrs after?
We are working on that.
Quote: Why coldnt you state what you stated here 1hr after finding out? It seems to me nothing of much infomration is in there I didn't figure out without the sources EBANK has within about 30min.
As for why we couldn't state it 1 hour after we found out, then I think you are being unreasonable, PP. As I have previously stated, we are involved in something bigger here than a scam, due to the involvment with RMT and real-life things.
You have hired more people that that, clear to state who? You guys keep digging the hole deeper, why are you scared to say who you hired, and I am not the only person that has asked?
You said you knew nothing about the loan an hour ago, you didnt even know who took it out, now you know it was all on ricdic, sure this is your final answer? |
LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2009.06.10 14:08:00 -
[38]
Originally by: DeODokktor
Originally by: cosmoray So according to LVV, Ricdic gave an unsecured loan of 275B, AND then scammed 200B+.
That is a huge difference if correct.
That means nearly 500B is gone, and that is 25% of capital. A huge amount
It might be.. But if they were getting a net profit of 10% per MONTH then they should be okay to cover all losses (given time, and no mass withdrawl of funds).
We have managed to build up a very good reserve, which will be put to use now. That's why we made it, should **** hit the fan. |
Tellnan Matkiel
Gallente The Industrial Consortium
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Posted - 2009.06.10 14:11:00 -
[39]
PP
Already in the other thread you have retract and correct a "fact" you boldly stated at the start.
Currently, why should I trust anything you have to say more than someone else, especially when you clearly have an axe to grind, and probably a fair degree of personal enmity in this?
Pardon me if faced with two stalwarts of the forum facing off, I tend to trust the one who keeps his tone reasonable and doesn't mouth off with threats and blackmail. |
Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
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Posted - 2009.06.10 14:12:00 -
[40]
Originally by: LaVista Vista We have managed to build up a very good reserve, which will be put to use now. That's why we made it, should *** hit the fan.
How much reserve did you managed to build?
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Krathos Morpheus
Gallente Legion Infernal Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.06.10 14:12:00 -
[41]
Originally by: LaVista Vista Ricdic gave an unsecured loan to the tune of 275billion. There's nothing more to that. Ricdic was incompetent, and it made us lose ISK. However, our reserve could easily handle that, leaving us no problem to keep on going without a problem.
Does that means that you had no intention of revealing it because you could cover it silently?
Quote: As for why we couldn't state it 1 hour after we found out, then I think you are being unreasonable, PP. As I have previously stated, we are involved in something bigger here than a scam, due to the involvment with RMT and real-life things.
RMT has to be dealt with by CCP, it causes no more charge on you. Real life things are to be dealt with in real life, not by you, not here. I see no aditional work for you in that issues. |
Proton Power
Amarr Relentless Construction
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Posted - 2009.06.10 14:12:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Tellnan Matkiel PP
Already in the other thread you have retract and correct a "fact" you boldly stated at the start.
Currently, why should I trust anything you have to say more than someone else, especially when you clearly have an axe to grind, and probably a fair degree of personal enmity in this?
Pardon me if faced with two stalwarts of the forum facing off, I tend to trust the one who keeps his tone reasonable and doesn't mouth off with threats and blackmail.
Thats fine but dont forget if it was not for my post this post would not exist yet. And yes I have proof of that. |
Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.06.10 14:13:00 -
[43]
Originally by: cosmoray So according to LVV, Ricdic gave an unsecured loan of 275B, AND then scammed 200B+.
That is a huge difference if correct.
That means nearly 500B is gone, and that is 25% of capital. A huge amount
We had a bunch of withdraws, but currently we have 2.3 Trillion in deposits, which means that 475 total is 20% of deposits. Prior to the withdraw rush we had 2.45 Trillion I believe. However....everybody seems to forget that we had a sizable surplus. EBANK was very profitable.
Yes, EBANK took a hit. We could have been fine if Ricdic hadn't scammed but his scam hit us just as we absorbed a large default. We're going to have to shrink a little to reduce liabilities and boost our profits - effectively this means that instead of focusing on growth, we'll focus on profitability to regain our footing.
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Confuzer
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2009.06.10 14:14:00 -
[44]
So Ric also gave a loan of 275 to his friends/alts and then run of with 200.
Nice profit for him there.
How can you ever allow someone to transfer that amount in isk in one go? |
Proton Power
Amarr Relentless Construction
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Posted - 2009.06.10 14:15:00 -
[45]
Oh and again look at my original thread, the only true fact that is off some is how much isk the loan was, and that is because I have gotten 3 different answers on this, but its over what ricdic took.
And they hired good people, i have zero issues with who they hired, I dont' see why they dont post it. There is zero reason to hide who they have helping them. |
Proton Power
Amarr Relentless Construction
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Posted - 2009.06.10 14:16:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Confuzer So Ric also gave a loan of 275 to his friends/alts and then run of with 200.
Nice profit for him there.
How can you ever allow someone to transfer that amount in isk in one go?
Negative. And this is my issue, this loan had all of EBANKs part not just Ricdic. They want to make it like it was him now which makes sense but agian not the truth. |
SentryRaven
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.10 14:16:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Proton Power And they hired good people, i have zero issues with who they hired, I dont' see why they dont post it. There is zero reason to hide who they have helping them.
The simple reason is that is not really relevant, is it? There is zero reason to actually post it. --------
KIA Recruitment Director |
Motivated Prophet
Zerodot Schools
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Posted - 2009.06.10 14:17:00 -
[48]
Originally by: cosmoray The risk of putting your money in EBANK has significantly increased.
There is now NO justification having money in EBANK in accounts not earning any interest.
There ever was? Even if EBank were run by CCP, Mother Theresa, and Gandhi, why justification would there have been for keeping ISK in accounts that don't earn interest?
Originally by: cosmoray 3% savings rate is no longer high enough to justify the risk.
There may arguments about EBANK being the gold standard and lowest risk, but not anymore. Only entities that have not scammed move up the table by default.
So you demand higher interest rates from your bank when one of its loans default, even if the risk of default was priced into the loan and doesn't affect the long-term financial stability of the bank?
The bank hasn't scammed; everyone's promised ISK is still there. Some of the bank's profit margin has disappeared; the directors probably won't get paid this month. Keep this in perspective.
MP --
Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral compressionexpansion! WTF? |
LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2009.06.10 14:18:00 -
[49]
Quote: Does that means that you had no intention of revealing it because you could cover it silently?
I wouldn't know. I only just did the research on the loan + hour. I have been tied up with exams the last few weeks, so I have not been actively doing any reading on it.
Quote: RMT has to be dealt with by CCP, it causes no more charge on you. Real life things are to be dealt with in real life, not by you, not here. I see no aditional work for you in that issues.
If it isn't obvious why we couldn't discuss it at that time, then I'm sorry. I can't discuss it further due to the nature of the things this whole situation ties into.
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2009.06.10 14:19:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Hexxx
Originally by: cosmoray So according to LVV, Ricdic gave an unsecured loan of 275B, AND then scammed 200B+.
That is a huge difference if correct.
That means nearly 500B is gone, and that is 25% of capital. A huge amount
We had a bunch of withdraws, but currently we have 2.3 Trillion in deposits, which means that 475 total is 20% of deposits. Prior to the withdraw rush we had 2.45 Trillion I believe. However....everybody seems to forget that we had a sizable surplus. EBANK was very profitable.
Yes, EBANK took a hit. We could have been fine if Ricdic hadn't scammed but his scam hit us just as we absorbed a large default. We're going to have to shrink a little to reduce liabilities and boost our profits - effectively this means that instead of focusing on growth, we'll focus on profitability to regain our footing.
Why didn't you say up front you lost 475B (20%) of capital but instead said 200B (8.6B).
According to your reports only about a third is liquid cash the rest in performing assets (loans, BPO's, businesses). Theoretically you have lost over half your liquid capital. You will be liquidating profitable items.
You talk about profitability, which means low rates and less customers.
Why would investors accept non-paying account and interest accounts that pay 3% per month. The risk profile of EBANK has shot up and 3% is no longer a fair reflection of risk. No matter what statements EBANK make, their most senior member scammed public funds so your credit risk HAS TO GO UP.
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Sophia Truthspeaker
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2009.06.10 14:20:00 -
[51]
Once again, thank you for the official post.
Sad to see someone not only betraying the trust within the game but completly breaking the game as well with RMT trading.
Actually I percieved Ricdic as the biggest liability of Ebank for a while now. If measures are taken to prevent future ... well whatever Ricdics role was in Ebank... to exploit Ebank the same way my level of trust towards Ebank will actually increase.
So two questions to Hexxx: Will future people of Ebank hold the same amount of power as Ricdic? What are the measures to prevent this, if desired?
_________
The truth is out there |
LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2009.06.10 14:20:00 -
[52]
Originally by: cosmoray
No matter what statements EBANK make, their most senior member scammed public funds so your credit risk HAS TO GO UP.
People are welcome to withdraw their ISK, if they don't think the rate is good anymore, right?
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.06.10 14:21:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Motivated Prophet
Originally by: cosmoray The risk of putting your money in EBANK has significantly increased.
There is now NO justification having money in EBANK in accounts not earning any interest.
There ever was? Even if EBank were run by CCP, Mother Theresa, and Gandhi, why justification would there have been for keeping ISK in accounts that don't earn interest?
Originally by: cosmoray 3% savings rate is no longer high enough to justify the risk.
There may arguments about EBANK being the gold standard and lowest risk, but not anymore. Only entities that have not scammed move up the table by default.
So you demand higher interest rates from your bank when one of its loans default, even if the risk of default was priced into the loan and doesn't affect the long-term financial stability of the bank?
The bank hasn't scammed; everyone's promised ISK is still there. Some of the bank's profit margin has disappeared; the directors probably won't get paid this month. Keep this in perspective.
MP
As a sidenote...you may find this funny.
Nearly all the Directors got pulled into a chatroom with some of our staff and we announced the Ricdic scam internally. Almost everyone was like "Damnit!" but one person did say, "So...uh...I guess this means no payroll budget this month?"
I laughed.
EBANK - Chairman of the Board | www.eve-bank.net
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Saehta
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Posted - 2009.06.10 14:24:00 -
[54]
Originally by: SentryRaven
The simple reason is that is not really relevant, is it? There is zero reason to actually post it.
Agreed, I'm too am okay with anonymous bank tellers / managers
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Proton Power
Amarr Relentless Construction
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Posted - 2009.06.10 14:25:00 -
[55]
My questions have been asked by others time and time again now in this thread, if you don't like me because I brought some of this up so be it.
Why are you putting this entire 250bil+ loan on ricdic? Was he the only one that knew about it?
Why did you not let the public know about it much sooner so you would only be dealing wiht one drama bomb today instead of 2.
Who else have you hired? And why have you hidden those names to this point. (makes zero sense to me)
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Adrimar
Hellfire-Empire
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Posted - 2009.06.10 14:26:00 -
[56]
Thank you for the email of warning.
However I did not like the fact that my email address, thankfully one of my throwaway addresses that I use only for eve, was given to many other people who hold ebank accounts.
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SentryRaven
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.06.10 14:26:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Proton Power Why did you not let the public know about it much sooner so you would only be dealing wiht one drama bomb today instead of 2.
What reason would there be to make the default public?
Originally by: Proton
Who else have you hired? And why have you hidden those names to this point. (makes zero sense to me)
Again, why is this relevant? --------
KIA Recruitment Director |
Krathos Morpheus
Gallente Legion Infernal Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.06.10 14:26:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Hexxx
Originally by: cosmoray So according to LVV, Ricdic gave an unsecured loan of 275B, AND then scammed 200B+.
That is a huge difference if correct.
That means nearly 500B is gone, and that is 25% of capital. A huge amount
We had a bunch of withdraws, but currently we have 2.3 Trillion in deposits, which means that 475 total is 20% of deposits. Prior to the withdraw rush we had 2.45 Trillion I believe. However....everybody seems to forget that we had a sizable surplus. EBANK was very profitable.
Yes, EBANK took a hit. We could have been fine if Ricdic hadn't scammed but his scam hit us just as we absorbed a large default. We're going to have to shrink a little to reduce liabilities and boost our profits - effectively this means that instead of focusing on growth, we'll focus on profitability to regain our footing.
I'm sure you can recover from this given time, but transparency and honesty is a must for confidence and trust and you keep evading questions and not revealing the whole truth
EVE Knowledge
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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2009.06.10 14:29:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Adrimar Thank you for the email of warning.
However I did not like the fact that my email address, thankfully one of my throwaway addresses that I use only for eve, was given to many other people who hold ebank accounts.
Yeah. The application used for the mass-mailing acted slightly different than expected. Turns out you explicitly had to tell it that it had to be a BCC.
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Hexxx
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.06.10 14:30:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Hexxx on 10/06/2009 14:31:26
Originally by: Block Ukx Hexxx, Thanks for your reply. I have a few more questions.
Originally by: Hexxx
Some of your questions I can't answer - our liquidity as of yesterday was 400 billion to 500 billion. This number is in flux though because of withdraws and liquidations on our end.
What is your plan if the BANKĘs withdrawal requests exceeds your liquidity? I imagine that part of the plan is to raise additional cash via bonds. However, I believe you are going to have a hard time raising more than 200 B, at which point the bank will be forced to cash out its assets. Which brings me to a few new questions: who will it be in charge of liquidating the assets? And would the banning of ricdic characters will affect your ability to unlock part of the bankĘs assets?
Block, I would recommend bonds, an IPO (which I'd really like to avoid), or even private loans. We've had numerous offers of private loans. I'd like to say again that while this is an option, we don't have any immediate liquidity concerns.
Originally by: Hexxx
EBANK's acting CEO is Athre.
Why Athre and not you? DonĘt you think is more prudent you become acting CEO during this potential crisis?
My role is and continues to be the Chairman of the Board. My role is focused on strategy, not on operations. Athre is one of our best people on the operational side and is extremely capable. I have full faith in her.
Originally by: Hexxx
As I mentioned before, Ricdic stole 200 Billion. This was almost entirely in cash. He "took the money and ran" as it were.
Did he had any locked BPOĘs in any of his ghost corporation?
We had people in any corporation that Ricdic had BPO's in. To our best knowledge, he stole no BPO's.
Originally by: Hexxx
Our major liabilities would, as usual, be our loans. However today we just had a 40 billion loan repaid.
Are these secured or unsecured loans? And who holds the assets used for security?
Hard to answer this; we do three types of loans. Secured, partially secured, and unsecured. Secured loans are the most common, unsecured are the least common, and partially secured fall in the middle. Collateral is held by the EBANK corporation, not individuals....we don't believe any collateral has been lost.
Originally by: Hexxx
Our internal auditor was Selene. We have not had time yet to find a replacement.
Any chance I can view this audit?
Selene didn't complete the audit.
EBANK - Chairman of the Board | www.eve-bank.net
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