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FISHANDCHIPS
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Posted - 2009.09.30 16:55:00 -
[61]
now now dont smear the poor kitty with emoness thats just mean
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Altie McName
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Posted - 2009.09.30 16:58:00 -
[62]
Dear OP,
Here is a link that will give you what your post asked, CCP Clarification. I know this, or anything else from CCP, will not make you happy, so let this troll continue to whine and provide us with entertainment
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Elora Danzik
Caldari Idiots In Spaceships Psychotic Tendencies.
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Posted - 2009.09.30 17:18:00 -
[63]
Originally by: MIND SCR4MBLER
So before you come here spouting about "those darn CCP and there lack of legal morals", i suggest you avail yourself of free trip to library and look up the international maritime laws of salvage, on which all future laws of space will no doubt be based....
Actually its mostly been done. The UN created the Committee on the Peaceful Uses of Outer Space. Over the years they have basicly applied most international maritime law to space. So yeah....
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Elora Danzik
Caldari Idiots In Spaceships Psychotic Tendencies.
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Posted - 2009.09.30 17:25:00 -
[64]
on second thought. Why did you post this in c&p?
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Sergiiy Kortos
The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2009.09.30 17:28:00 -
[65]
i WISH salvaging flagged me to the mission runner :(
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Dawts
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.30 17:29:00 -
[66]
You guys get trolled so easy. It's actually kind of sad.
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Pater Peccavi
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.09.30 17:29:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Elora Danzik on second thought. Why did you post this in c&p?
It's a troll, and he figured he'd get angry responses from the regulars of C&P. _________
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Shady Salesman
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Posted - 2009.09.30 17:30:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Shady Salesman on 30/09/2009 17:30:14
Originally by: Doddy Edited by: Doddy on 30/09/2009 13:12:58 You wanna compare to the real world huh? Do you think the U.S navy owns all the wrecks of all the japanese ships it sank in WW2? Or does Germany own the wreck of the Lusitania? If they ever find the gold bullion that supposedly went down at the nile they gonna give it to nelsons estate? Blowing something up in RL does not make you its owner. Eve is not real life, but even if it was you would still be wrong.
Of course not. It's definitely been more than 2 hours, those wrecks have despawned...
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Two Shots
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Posted - 2009.09.30 19:26:00 -
[69]
Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny
Originally by: Future Mutant YAAAAAAA! Another thread on ninja salvaging! we dont get enough of these!
Its a good thing we have whining on the forums as an option i mean its tons easier then actually COMPETING for your salvage.
For you, see the section above about dipping Mr. Winky.
For any other little boys out there that have something actually relevant to the conversation please say so. Please remember though that we have Crank Yankers on TV if we want to hear from Special ED.
I'll take a shot at this.
Sir,
There are presently several issues that I would like to make known to you for your own enlightenment.
First, this thread is in the wrong sub-forum if you are seeking CCP attention or consideration for the implementation of an idea or feature. The proper forum for that sort of thread is the "Features and Ideas" sub-forum, which you may access through your NeoCom. Another option of recourse to air your ideas is to post them in the "Assembly Hall" sub-forum, so that the CSM are made aware of your desires and can communicate them to CCP on your behalf. In either of the above cases, you would do well to first do a search of those sub-forums (EVEonline.com's search is useless; use eve-search.com) for any already-existent threads you might post in to lend your support. A single mega-thread with a lot of posts and support is a louder voice to CCP than a bunch of threads from individual people. Finally, a third recourse is to direcly contact CCP through an in-game petition, out-of-game e-mail, letter, or telephone call. International rates and normal Internet charges may apply.
Secondly, you are addressing your desire that a form of (what you call) theft be removed from the game. In the sub-forum devoted to "Crime and Punishment," which is the notorious hang-out of rascals and scoundrels and villains and knaves; of jokers and Black Rabbits and really bad eggs (stand up me hearties, yo ho). You will not get any sympathy here. If you are in fact a troll, the response you are desiring (attention, argument, controversy) will be gotten; but, if you are sincerely wishing to discuss the issue on an intellectual level of game mechanics, you're in the wrong place.
Thirdly, the issue you have raised has been addressed by CCP several times. It is the official stance of CCP that salvage belongs to no one until it lands in the hangar of whomever has salvaged it from a wreck. Changing the present ownership mechanics of salvage would, counter to what you seem to think, actually increase the "tears" from Carebears; because, a very likely scenario would be thus: 1. FIGHTBEAR enters mission belonging to CAREBEAR 2. CAREBEAR target locks FIGHTBEAR 3. FIGHTBEAR salvages a wreck and becomes flagged to CAREBEAR 4. CAREBEAR shoots at the FIGHTBEAR's salvage frigate 5. FIGHTBEAR warps out or is destroyed and then warps out; 6. CAREBEAR feels proud and awesome for about 1-2 minutes; 7. FIGHTBEAR warps back into the mission with a PVP-fit ship tanked against the damage the mission rats are weakest against, and bearing at least one heavy neut to break CAREBEAR's tank. 8. CAREBEAR explodes and posts on the forums about how it's unfair that he could be killed for defending his property 9. LULZ ensue.
In closing, I hope that my post has been constructive and that you find it helpful; further, I would suggest that you leave C&P before someone decides to take notice of you and wardec your corp/suicide gank your mission ship/make some other sort of mischief at or towards you, your person, or your property.
Cheers!
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FireT
Gallente As Far As The eYe can see
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Posted - 2009.09.30 19:48:00 -
[70]
Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny
I don't know about the rest of the world but here in the United States if I wreck someone else' car I have to pay the full price of that car and own it in it's entirety.
You must be an idiot. If you hit someone's car in the US you do not own the car afterward. I have never heard of that. Unless you claim you managed to total the entire car. In which case, you will have bigger problems... such as actually walking away from the accident.
Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny
NOT just the CD changer(read as loot within the cargo). If someone goes to that car and takes the electrical system(read as equal to salvage.) I have legal avenues to follow for recourse. If someone goes to that car and takes the CD changer(read as loot in the cargo.) I have legal avenues to follow for recourse. The CD-changer and the wreck are considered to be all the same ownership. Nobody can run up and just load my wreck up on their rig and drive away with it. From a legal standpoint any item taken from that wreck(Including an Alloyed Tritanium Bar)would be an act of theft.(Is this different in the rest of the world? Comments?)
So in real life, if you ever had such a massive accident in RL, you just abandoned the wreck, right? because unless that after you do destroy the Eve-wreck you salvage it, you are not doing the same. Unlike Eve where you can abandon wrecks, you could not do the same in real life. Because it would be a hazard to other drivers.
Overall, the idea of using real life examples is flawed at best, and inbred-stupid at worst.
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FireT
Gallente As Far As The eYe can see
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Posted - 2009.09.30 19:53:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Two Shots
Thirdly, the issue you have raised has been addressed by CCP several times. It is the official stance of CCP that salvage belongs to no one until it lands in the hangar of whomever has salvaged it from a wreck. Changing the present ownership mechanics of salvage would, counter to what you seem to think, actually increase the "tears" from Carebears; because, a very likely scenario would be thus: 1. FIGHTBEAR enters mission belonging to CAREBEAR 2. CAREBEAR target locks FIGHTBEAR 3. FIGHTBEAR salvages a wreck and becomes flagged to CAREBEAR 4. CAREBEAR shoots at the FIGHTBEAR's salvage frigate 5. FIGHTBEAR warps out or is destroyed and then warps out; 6. CAREBEAR feels proud and awesome for about 1-2 minutes; 7. FIGHTBEAR warps back into the mission with a PVP-fit ship tanked against the damage the mission rats are weakest against, and bearing at least one heavy neut to break CAREBEAR's tank. 8. CAREBEAR explodes and posts on the forums about how it's unfair that he could be killed for defending his property 9. LULZ ensue. Cheers!
I endorse LULZ
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Ricarr
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Posted - 2009.09.30 20:11:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Sergiiy Kortos i WISH salvaging flagged me to the mission runner :(
this
I hate when there is no loot to flag on.
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B0RG DR0NE
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Posted - 2009.09.30 20:15:00 -
[73]
Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny Edited by: BunnyBuzzBunny on 30/09/2009 09:06:07 Before you start to post here.... 1. This is not an issue about shooting someone. There are already laws about that in the game. 2. Don't twist my words on the subject. It only makes you look like you just can't comprehend. 3. I am asking for someone from CCP to validate. If you aren't from CCP....I don't care what you have to say.
I don't know about the rest of the world but here in the United States if I wreck someone else' car I have to pay the full price of that car and own it in it's entirety. NOT just the CD changer(read as loot within the cargo). If someone goes to that car and takes the electrical system(read as equal to salvage.) I have legal avenues to follow for recourse. If someone goes to that car and takes the CD changer(read as loot in the cargo.) I have legal avenues to follow for recourse. The CD-changer and the wreck are considered to be all the same ownership. Nobody can run up and just load my wreck up on their rig and drive away with it. From a legal standpoint any item taken from that wreck(Including an Alloyed Tritanium Bar)would be an act of theft.(Is this different in the rest of the world? Comments?)
Wrecks are color coded. They are color coded to show ownership. This goes for wrecks that have things within the cargo and those that do not. If there was no ownership of a wreck then there would not be a need for color coding.(There is a warning message about theft of loot so the concept that it is a different color to protect people from accidently taking something is moot, bogus and weak at best.)
Why is it that in Eve I only own the CD changer? What if I own a salvaging company and what they are taking is how I make my living?(Read as I pay for an alt that does nothing BUT salvage behind me in missions that are done for my corp. My corp uses that salvage to make things and sell them thus thiefs are taking money from my corp. Maybe I shouldn't give CCP any money?)
Can someone from CCP actually vallidate this ignorace for me
fail logic is fail...
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive
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Posted - 2009.09.30 20:32:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Picard Facepalm
Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny
I am asking it to be put one way or the other.....I really don't care which way it goes.
Somehow, I have trouble believing that you really don't care which way it goes, considering the amount of effort that you're putting into attempting to justify salvage flagging.
This, tbh. To misquote Shakespeare, "Methinks you doth protest too much." --Vel
In the world of emoticons, I was colon capital d. |
Traidor Disloyal
Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2009.09.30 20:34:00 -
[75]
Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny
3. I am asking for someone from CCP to validate. If you aren't from CCP....I don't care what you have to say.
You don't like how it is? Petition it and get your answer from CCP. Posting the same stuff over and over on the forums is going to get you the same response from the same people (not from CCP) every time.
You want an official answer from CCP? You got two choices: 1. Fly to Iceland and knock on the office door. 2. Petition it and escalate it up the chain until they wont talk to you anymore.
I'm fairly certain the dead horse concerning this subject is about to file a union grievance. ************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it. |
Jim GNARKILL
Gnarkill INC
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Posted - 2009.09.30 21:24:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Jim GNARKILL on 30/09/2009 21:25:09 CCP has made a ruling on this many many many many times this being the 867th thread on the subject
Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing."
Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.
Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit.
Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing.
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Bhaumut
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Posted - 2009.09.30 22:36:00 -
[77]
To the OP, as mentioned before this is a game...
Personally I like the fact that its a game, i can escape to it and fly around in my internet spaceships .. and not worry about the real world.
If you want to toss around laws and such here in my internet spaceships game, you should perhaps look into things like international salvaging laws on the open ocean here in the REAL world.. personally I get annoyed when a ninja salvages my loot.. but the reality is its not illegal in game to do so.. stealing my bumping stereo system from my wreck is..
Keep our children safe in the internet spaceships game.. by keeping shipping lanes clear of floating wrecks. Carry on
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Virtual Girlfriend
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Posted - 2009.09.30 22:39:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Virtual Girlfriend on 30/09/2009 22:39:15
Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny Edited by: BunnyBuzzBunny on 30/09/2009 09:06:07 here in the United States
Pretty much sums this up.
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Toonces Otama
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Posted - 2009.09.30 22:56:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Toonces Otama on 30/09/2009 22:56:32
Originally by: Virtual Girlfriend Edited by: Virtual Girlfriend on 30/09/2009 22:39:15
Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny Edited by: BunnyBuzzBunny on 30/09/2009 09:06:07 here in the United States
Pretty much sums this up.
Hey, we're not all idiots.
Anyway, CCP quotes + Maritime law = win.
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Face Eelai
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Posted - 2009.10.01 10:10:00 -
[80]
Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny
I don't know about the rest of the world but here in the United States
stopped reading here. eve != USA. in fact, eve != any RL country.
that being said, USA insurances are one of the biggest scams world wide. using them in a comparation to a internetz spaceship game doesn't make you look very clever TBH.
0/10 troll
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Karadan Kaarwen
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Posted - 2009.10.01 10:41:00 -
[81]
Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny
Originally by: Signore Kaeota
Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny So we should suply the entire underbelly of s****with money?
No, you shouldn't draw a RL comparison with one half of an issue, then ignore the second half, aka, YOU JUST BLEW SOMETHING UP - last I checked, that's a hellova lot less legal than stealing a CD player or an engine.
And if your referring to my second comment, then I assume that's why your posting? As it's pretty much exclusively mission b*tches who have issues with ninja salvaging.
And who cares if you think their scum? It's a game, they play it the way they like - which just happens to make you cry, and us laugh. Does that make them scum? No, it makes you pathetic.
And if you blow something up you are reqponsible for everything that you blew up and are expected to replace it to the full monetary value. In the case of mission running you are attacking criminals. Criminals that won't pay for their past actions. You are basically a hired bounty hunter.(Dirka Dirka.....that is why you get bounties....)
Only little girls with no life look at the arguement of law as tears......Statements like your remind me that there are a ton of little boys that haven't dipped mr. winky yet. But thank you for your tears of lacking any real life skills young one. They make me laugh.
Your comparison with real world events is entirely moot because this is a game. The laws are not the same as that in the real world.
Instead of complaining about how awful salvage thieves are, you should concentrate on how easy it is to make the salvage thieves bored and move on. Below are some tips for you:
Run missions away from hugely populated systems like Amarr or Jita. The less people in your system, the better.
Run missions with lesser-known corps as they will undoubtedly inhabit parts of space away from the hugely populated ones.
Fly a marauder.
If you can't fly a marauder, fit a salvager and tractor to your BS. It makes the salvage thieves bored and they soon move on.
If someone warps to your location and then warps off whilst you are still killing stuff, they will probably have made a bookmark (as they would have done in several other people's missions) to come back to later. If it is a mission with many rooms then jump in your salvager and salvage room by room before they come back. If needs be, start another mission in another system and come back to the half-finished one later.
At the end of the day, there is nothing you can do to stop salvage thieves. The best way to tackle them is just by making them bored. The time/money made for them is minimal unless they manage to find 5 people running Angel extravaganza in the same system. If you interrupt their ability to salvage lots of stuff fast, then they will get bored and scurry off.
Either that or have a friend come with you in a dedicated salvager.
Salvage thieves are nothing to worry about. They might take a few million from you but you'll make a hell of a lot more in the same amount of time as they do.
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Zanaraxtarus
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.10.01 11:04:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Sidephex epic troll or epic whine?
YOU DECIDE!
It's an epic, whiney troll...
Especially since this has not only been answered, but offically answered... several times!
I'm fairly new to the game (less than a month or two on this account and about 2 months on one back near the beginning) and have only been in low sec 3 or 4 times for any real length of time... EACH time I've found very large 'ship graveyards' (large groups of wrecks, both NPC and PC).... Not to mention the masses of wrecks lying around in high sec... This is WITH the current salvage system... Imagine how many wrecks would be lying around in all the systems during peak times from all of the people who don't loot wrecks, so they can turn in the mission and get another... Wanna add even more lag than already exists?? Wanna create even more strain on the servers??
Stop being idiots and arguing something already decided... And for gods sake, quit falling for trolls (or responding to morons)
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Lian Xander
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Posted - 2009.10.01 12:53:00 -
[83]
Okay ... tldr. Basically, to the OP, this is how it works. Oh, and your explanation of "wrecking someone's car", only explains the insurance mechanism - just like real life. So basically, CCP has already decided ... probably long before you picked up your subscription, that Ninja Salvaging is a mini-profession. It even has a lovely EVE-Wiki. But I digress. Let's look at your example of smashing cars. You hit my car. You wreck my car. Your INSURANCE company pays my INSURANCE company. The price tag associated with the vehicle is settled and the cost of the car is paid for. (depending on how cheap you are with insurance, that is). Now, you still have a chunk of metal laying around. IT HAS NO OWNERSHIP. The insurance has been paid on it, and you've been (perhaps) reimbursed by your insurance company for it. It becomes SALVAGE...(read = NOT YOURS).
Let's put this in EVE terms. You mission. You see rats. You kill rats. Rats have bounties. When you pop a rat, bounty is paid (MUCH LIKE INSURANCE). Therefore, you've already been compensated for the "wreck" by the bounty system. What's left is a chunk of metal laying around - THAT HAS NO OWNERSHIP.
The reason you "...only own the CD Changer" is because the INSURANCE/BOUNTY has been paid to you. Anything else would be considered insurance fraud in real life. Now, are you suggesting that CCP incorporates insurance fraud into the game mechanics? Stop whining and crying about the wrecks. They belong to no-one. Consider the loot inside a free gift to you for your troubles and move on with your damn life. This is just another ..."Waaa, I want my cake and your cake and his cake and their cake, and I want to eat it all too ... waaaa, I want my way!!!" ________________________________________________
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Smiling Menace
Gallente Crimson Paradox
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Posted - 2009.10.01 13:28:00 -
[84]
Wow another 'ninja stole my wreck and made me cry' thread.
Well if you don't like it you could...
(A) Shoot the wrecks (B) Suicide the ninja (C) Quit playing eve
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MIND SCR4MBLER
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Posted - 2009.10.01 13:33:00 -
[85]
as has been explained REPEATEDLY the whole notion of cars is a consequence of the OP's biscuit cake brainpower. the laws of SALVAGE are related to mariners law, and as in maritime salvaging is a dedicated profession using specialist equipment. you dont just go and salvage the titanic by sticking a little salvager on your 36" moody. you need a bloody big boat full of diving equipment and cranes.
the best way CCP could end this constant emoraging is making Salvaging a full blown career like mining. some simple steps would be:
1: make a dedicated salvage boat. i'm thinking a variant of the retriever with bonuses to tractor range and salvagers. 2: make salvager 1 really crap. so it takes like 5 minutes to salvage one wreck, the samer as miner 1 on a bantam, you can mine in a normal ship but the isk/hr is a joke, so it should be the same for salvagers on normal ships. 3: make salvager II like strip miners, you can salvage a wreck from 80KM and get 3x the salvage drop if you use it, but you need moar skills and you can get salvage upgrades like miners have. 4: make a special salvage tractor beam. can tractor wrecks from 3x range like 120km and 3x speed with a new skill. 5: give the salvage boat the same sort of tank as the hulk can field, salvage boats should be able to stand a pounding from a emoraging carebear mission doer, if you have ever seen a RL salvage boat they look proper tough. 6: to keep the ninjas happy make a T2 salvage boat using something like a HAC hull but with salvager bonuses, make it epically fast, a great tank and enough gank to do violence on a mission doer if they so desire to engage in combat.
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Paul Clavet
Honorless Internet Jerks
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Posted - 2009.10.01 14:31:00 -
[86]
Originally by: MIND SCR4MBLER 6: to keep the ninjas happy make a T2 salvage boat using something like a HAC hull but with salvager bonuses, make it epically fast, a great tank and enough gank to do violence on a mission doer if they so desire to engage in combat.
And then nobody will actually engage us in combat.
No thanks. ---- Blog: My Loot, Your Tears |
Velocity Prime
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.10.01 15:22:00 -
[87]
I have your loot, now HAND OVER YOUR SANITY!
BWAHAHAHAA!
We're Recruiting! |
Villa Wolfsbane
Amarr Locusts.
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Posted - 2009.10.01 15:26:00 -
[88]
Following replying to Mind Scrambler in Features and Suggestions, voicing a similar sentiment in here too.
I think there is one, and only one major problem with career salvaging as it is currently implemented in game.
That is the inability for a career salvager to scan down abandonned wrecks. Without this ability, it's *always* going to be active missions that are targetted, and not those missions that have been deemed not worth salvaging by the mission runner.
Of course, making wrecks scannable will do NOTHING to reduce the whining from my fellow mission runners, but it would enable the career salvager to truely take on the "dustbin men of space" role that CCP has indicated they are intended to.
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Bjron
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Posted - 2009.10.01 15:31:00 -
[89]
Yo, butt hurt mission runner carebear, I am really happy for you, and Imma let you finish, But.... Mission runner tears are the greatest tears of all time, OF ALL TIME!
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Sol'Kanar
Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2009.10.01 16:10:00 -
[90]
I approve of this fred.
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