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Ninja salvaging and the flaws contained in CCP's sad look at legality.

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BunnyBuzzBunny	Posted - 2009.11.05 01:00:00 - [271] Originally by: FireT Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny Originally by: FireT Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny Atleast discolor your words so everything doesn't run together in a non-sensical waste of effort. And BTW.....Do reproduce...You are making the U.S. what all the people that hate it see it as....loaded with idiots. This is actually funny. Congrats. And yes I will reproduce, once I find the lady of my dreams. Till then I try to enjoy the topic, if you don't mind of course. Again, you claim that you should own a wreck, yet you admit that the insurance company technically paid for it. Thus you never had the right to grab the wreck in real life. And on the occasion that you ever do actually get to total someone's car (hopefully neither side will be injured, though unlikely) go ahead and try to take stuff out of the other person's car. Slightly impossible since the person will be still alive. And if you killed them, even if they were a criminal in the US, you would get arrested. Thus everything you spouted got nullified by actual logic. Take your half logic using tard self elsewhere. Ofcourse if you only use part of anything you can twist it around.....congrat idiot american.....you win in your little corner. Ah the American humor: waaaa waaaaa waaaaaaaaa And when someone comes along and points out how wrong you are: WAAAAAAAAAAA Thank you man, you made me laugh all day. Noone has pointed out anything about me being wrong here yet.......Only spooged incomp. like yourself.....half-assing everything they do and say in twisted words to attempt to sound smart.....and failing.
FireT Gallente As Far As The eYe can see	Posted - 2009.11.05 01:03:00 - [272] Well kid, if you can't read properly and only love your own ideas AND can't accept criticism and heavy sarcasm which is based upon your own drug induced version of humanity..... go ahead. All I can say, if you ever get to shoot at people for salvaging your wrecks, and they retain kill rights.... I will personally become a griefer to annoy you.
BunnyBuzzBunny	Posted - 2009.11.05 01:07:00 - [273] Edited by: BunnyBuzzBunny on 05/11/2009 01:09:39 Edited by: BunnyBuzzBunny on 05/11/2009 01:07:57 Originally by: FireT Well kid, if you can't read properly and only love your own ideas AND can't accept criticism and heavy sarcasm which is based upon your own drug induced version of humanity..... go ahead. All I can say, if you ever get to shoot at people for salvaging your wrecks, and they retain kill rights.... I will personally become a griefer to annoy you. Again....tardation and inbreeding serve you well......there is nothing mentioned about shooting someone....only tards with nothing to bring to the table bring shooting someone to this conversation. and what is keeping you from doing it now by taking something from a wreck.....you want to go flashy red to me youcan....If you knew how.....keep it in the family.....you go...you go.....
FireT Gallente As Far As The eYe can see	Posted - 2009.11.05 01:18:00 - [274] Ah Bunny, you truly are a class A troll. Nice job, thanks for the entertainment. Your stupidity, acted or real, was worth laughing at.
Riedle Minmatar Raptus Regalitor	Posted - 2009.11.05 13:17:00 - [275] Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny I like to stick my finger in my bum and then smell it - I find it both rich smelling and repugnant at the same time. I secretly hope someone will catch me doing this
Serra Polaris Amarr Trichomes Unlimited Massive Intergalactic Love Klub	Posted - 2009.11.05 17:12:00 - [276] What you are asking is to do is to change game mechanics. While ccp has changed things in the past like the jetcan aggro mechanics, how do you respond to the fact that they have stated many times that they intentionally created salvaging in this way and that they have no intention of "fixing" it? I seriously cannot understand why people keep bringing this up so please let me know..
Asuri Kinnes Caldari The Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2009.11.05 18:02:00 - [277] Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny Edited by: BunnyBuzzBunny on 11/10/2009 04:59:14 Before you start to post here.... 1. This is not an issue about shooting someone. There are already laws about that in the game.[/quot] As there are laws about ninjasalvagin... Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny 2. Don't twist my words on the subject. It only makes you look like you just can't comprehend. Troll - its been explained to you (and relevant CCP Dev answers have been linked). And still you troll... Like you can't comprehend. Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny 3. I don't have time to read every article that has been posted before me. (Think of it as the "Dipping Mr. Winky" principle of things.) Let us know when Mr. Winky gets dipped, I'm sure we'd all like to be informed of when you hit puberty pubbie. You don't have to read all the other threads to find the relevant answers... Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny 4. I am asking for someone from CCP to validate. If you aren't from CCP....I don't care what you have to say. Sure, glad to help the less fortunate (i.e. - 'bred & 'tarded..): GM Ytterbium on "ownership" of wrecks, and aggro mechanics... http://eve-search.com/thread/766902 CCP Prism X explains why it isnt a theft to salvage wrecks made by other people http://eve-search.com/thread/971872#30 CCP Mitnal locks thread cause CCP:s policy is clear. Salvaging others wrecks is NOT a crime (scroll down) http://eve-search.com/thread/1080709/page/2#47 GM Faolchu explains how CCP looks at salvaging http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=508034&page=9#262 I don't know about the rest of the world but here in the United States if I wreck someone else' car I have to pay the full price of that car and own it in it's entirety. Inappropriate language removed. Zymurgist Just wanted to let you know, you do NOT own the vehicle in its entirety, nor do you have to "pay the full price of the vehicle". If you have insurance, the Insurance Co. pays off the totaled vehicle, and the Insurance Co owns it - it has nothing to do with you... Only if you don't have insurance do you have to pay anything... And you still do not own anything in the other persons car, or the car itself. >TLOD!<
BunnyBuzzBunny	Posted - 2009.11.08 09:00:00 - [278] Originally by: Asuri Kinnes Edited by: Asuri Kinnes on 05/11/2009 20:57:29 Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny Edited by: BunnyBuzzBunny on 11/10/2009 04:59:14 Before you start to post here.... 1. This is not an issue about shooting someone. There are already laws about that in the game. As there are laws about ninjasalvagin... Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny 2. Don't twist my words on the subject. It only makes you look like you just can't comprehend. Troll - its been explained to you (and relevant CCP Dev answers have been linked). And still you troll... Like you can't comprehend. Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny 3. I don't have time to read every article that has been posted before me. (Think of it as the "Dipping Mr. Winky" principle of things.) Let us know when Mr. Winky gets dipped, I'm sure we'd all like to be informed of when you hit puberty pubbie. You don't have to read all the other threads to find the relevant answers... Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny 4. I am asking for someone from CCP to validate. If you aren't from CCP....I don't care what you have to say. Sure, glad to help the less fortunate (i.e. - 'bred & 'tarded..): GM Ytterbium on "ownership" of wrecks, and aggro mechanics... http://eve-search.com/thread/766902 CCP Prism X explains why it isnt a theft to salvage wrecks made by other people http://eve-search.com/thread/971872#30 CCP Mitnal locks thread cause CCP:s policy is clear. Salvaging others wrecks is NOT a crime (scroll down) http://eve-search.com/thread/1080709/page/2#47 GM Faolchu explains how CCP looks at salvaging http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=508034&page=9#262 I don't know about the rest of the world but here in the United States if I wreck someone else' car I have to pay the full price of that car and own it in it's entirety. Inappropriate language removed. Zymurgist Just wanted to let you know, you do NOT own the vehicle in its entirety, nor do you have to "pay the full price of the vehicle". If you have insurance, the Insurance Co. pays off the totaled vehicle, and the Insurance Co owns it - it has nothing to do with you... Only if you don't have insurance do you have to pay anything... And you still do not own anything in the other persons car, or the car itself. >TLOD!< Sorry little kid....you are wrong on so many levels. 1. Yes there are laws governing shooting others and ninja salvaging.....this thread is about salvaging....not shooting....thanks for pointing that out brainchild. 2. Explaining something is not the same as twisting my words around.....thanks again for pointing that out brainchild..... 3. I am sure your mom can let you know.....but thanks for pointing that out to everyone brainchild. 4. These still don't validate why a wreck is different than the contents of the wreck as it is all one twisted pile of ****zle......thanks for pointing those out brainchild. If you are paying the insurance company....you are pre-paying for that wreck. If you don't have insurance and the vehicle is totaled you will be responsible to replace it and or give enough money to cover a replacement and you will own the wreck.(Or the insurance Co. does if they pay for a totaled vehicle.) And even if you DO have insurance...5-1 says you have a deductable.....and you still have to pay a substantual ammount. Keep going troll.....and see if you can't come up with something realistic.
Nathan Wolfe Caldari Axe Gang	Posted - 2009.11.08 10:54:00 - [279] 10 pages and you still don't get it. It's been explained several different ways, even using your own utterly stupid car crash example. You've been insulted and ridiculed yet you persist. But the most important reaction you've generated is probably one that you've missed. You've been ignored.
Der'Teufel Felsen	Posted - 2009.11.08 12:08:00 - [280] 1: DONT leave your car on the road in a UNROADWORTHY state.... its illegal 2: If i take your car sterio.... you think im gona hang about to get caught?!?!?!?! let alone re-pay you (if i had the cash i wouldn't have took it in 1st place) 3: No i didnt read all the reply's, but your post fails in so many ways i thought i'd bump it for you 4: Thieve's dont care much about law's ^^
Asuri Kinnes Caldari The Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2009.11.08 14:22:00 - [281] Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny If you are paying the insurance company....you are pre-paying for that wreck. If you don't have insurance and the vehicle is totaled you will be responsible to replace it and or give enough money to cover a replacement and you will own the wreck.(Or the insurance Co. does if they pay for a totaled vehicle.) And even if you DO have insurance...5-1 says you have a deductable.....and you still have to pay a substantual ammount. Keep going troll.....and see if you can't come up with something realistic. Trolling aside, CCP has said: "This is our game, wrecks = aggression, salvage does not". Thats what has been pointed out to you and you refuse to listen. Last but not least: One of the jobs I've had in the past was Insurance Agent. yes you pay all that money to the insurance company. (Now I'll say this slow) No matter what, under NO circumstance will YOU EVER own any part of another persons wrecked vehicle. You are not "prepaying for that wreck" - your paying insurance so that you don't have to pay, OUT OF POCKET for the damages... Title will not transfer to you, you won't have salvage rights, you won't be able to take anything from the wreck - nothing. Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny And even if you DO have insurance...5-1 says you have a deductable.....and you still have to pay a substantual ammount. Which has nothing to do with salvage or ownership - >DOLT< "This thread is about trolling..." I like pie.
Serlunt	Posted - 2009.11.08 14:30:00 - [282] Originally by: Asuri Kinnes (Now I'll say this slow) No matter what, under the circumstance that involve an insurance payout, will YOU EVER own any part of another persons wrecked vehicle. You are not "prepaying for that wreck" - your paying insurance so that you don't have to pay, OUT OF POCKET for the damages... Fixed it for you. Originally by: Asuri Kinnes I like pie. ME TOO!
Asuri Kinnes Caldari The Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2009.11.08 15:40:00 - [283] Originally by: Serlunt Originally by: Asuri Kinnes (Now I'll say this slow) No matter what, under the circumstance that involve an insurance payout, will YOU EVER own any part of another persons wrecked vehicle. You are not "prepaying for that wreck" - your paying insurance so that you don't have to pay, OUT OF POCKET for the damages... Fixed it for you. Originally by: Asuri Kinnes I like pie. ME TOO! Ok fine! But considering where the OP has been/is going, don't you think that is a subtle distinction that just might distract him a touch? :) Chocolate Meringue!
Serlunt	Posted - 2009.11.08 16:02:00 - [284] Originally by: Asuri Kinnes Originally by: Serlunt Originally by: Asuri Kinnes (Now I'll say this slow) No matter what, under the circumstance that involve an insurance payout, will YOU EVER own any part of another persons wrecked vehicle. You are not "prepaying for that wreck" - your paying insurance so that you don't have to pay, OUT OF POCKET for the damages... Fixed it for you. Originally by: Asuri Kinnes I like pie. ME TOO! Ok fine! But considering where the OP has been/is going, don't you think that is a subtle distinction that just might distract him a touch? :) Chocolate Meringue! Point conceded. Blackberry!
Asuri Kinnes Caldari The Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2009.11.11 16:44:00 - [285] Originally by: Serlunt Point conceded. Blackberry! You are a Gentle-lady of refinement, distinction and a Scholar! APPLE! (W/Chocolate Meringue on the side!)
Lady Spank Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb	Posted - 2009.11.11 16:48:00 - [286] Whisky Pecan P♥e The quality of my replies is directly related to the QQuality of the opÆs comments
Brent riper Caldari Night Wolves Deprived of Existence by Mercenaries of the Night	Posted - 2009.11.11 19:44:00 - [287] I <3 this troll lolz, i wonder if he has green or blue hair AND further more, Carthage must be destroyed!!
Woodwraith Prophets Of a Damned Universe	Posted - 2009.11.11 22:24:00 - [288] Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny I don't know about the rest of the world but here in the United States if I wreck someone else' car I have to pay the full price of that car and own it in it's entirety. NOT just the CD changer(read as loot within the cargo). If someone goes to that car and takes the electrical system(read as equal to salvage.) I have legal avenues to follow for recourse. If someone goes to that car and takes the CD changer(read as loot in the cargo.) I have legal avenues to follow for recourse. The CD-changer and the wreck are considered to be all the same ownership. Nobody can run up and just load my wreck up on their rig and drive away with it. From a legal standpoint any item taken from that wreck(Including an Alloyed Tritanium Bar)would be an act of theft.(Is this different in the rest of the world? Comments?) This is in no way parallel to what is happening in game. An accurate analogy would be if you took someones car up in a cargo plane, pushed it out the back over a field and went on to land. If someone comes up to that field and takes the radio/wiring/whatever out of the car, then no, you have no legal claim or recourse in the matter, its daft to think that you would. The salvage isn't yours, it was never supposed to be, as stated ad naseum by ccp, there are supposed to be ninja salvagers, thats what they intended when they built the system the way they did, it would have been trivial for them to make that an owned part of the wreck, and yet they didn't. Stop wasting everyones time.
Tiberizzle	Posted - 2009.11.12 00:44:00 - [289] Instead of the ass**ingly ***ed analogies being drawn to completely unrelated scenarios, why not refer to international law regarding marine and military salvage for some idea of who should be the rightful owner? Here, I'll start you off: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_salvage "In the United Kingdom under the Merchant Shipping Act 1995, jetsam, flotsam, lagan and all other cargo and wreckage remain the property of their original owners."* "There are several factors that would be considered by a court in establishing the amount of the salvorÆs award. Some of these include the difficulty of the operation, the risk involved to the salvor, the value of the property saved, the degree of danger to which the property was exposed, and the potential environmental impacts. It would be a rare case in which the salvage award would be greater than 50 percent of the value of the property salvaged. More commonly, salvage awards amount to 10 percent to 25 percent of the value of the property." http://www.jstor.org/pss/752255 I am too lazy to type this up or OCR it, but it roughly states that even a member of an enemy state remains in legal ownership of a vessel that is salvaged. His "rights are in suspension" and he may pay a salvage award to be determined by a court to regain legal ownership. http://books.google.com/books?pg=PA550&lpg=PA549&sig=YRi_yUWdB3W7bZ35HUFCIoxSFUc&ei=20_7SsqHFtLRngfHz7yEDQ&ct=result&id=5qYwAAAAIAAJ&ots=klIWYKSG27&output=text ...but if the rescue be made by the neutral crew of a neutral ship, it may be doubtful how far such an illegal act, which involves the penalty of confiscation, would be held in the prize courts of the captor's country to divest his original right in case of a subsequent recapture. [taken lightly out of a context in which the painfully verbose discussion regarded the recapture of a captured vessel, probably more directly relevant discussions in the text somewhere] Without spending too much time making sense of all of this or reading very deeply into it, it appears that under current international law either the NPC () or the hostile party would be the rightful owner of the derelict ship ("salvage") and its cargo ("loot"). A neutral party in a ship of neutral flag appears to at best be entitled to a portion of the value of the derelict ship as an award for its retrieval and has no right to its cargo. At worst the neutral party would be considered to have committed an act of theft. If some carebear who actually loots and salvages his missions would like to dig further along similar lines I'm pretty sure a strong case could be made either for or against the current policy on salvage. CCP will likely disregard any such analysis, though, as they are quite obviously intentionally griefing us all with some of these ****ty game mechanics
Serlunt	Posted - 2009.11.12 11:23:00 - [290] Originally by: Lady Spank Whisky Pecan P♥e Holy **** this sounds delicious.
Asuri Kinnes Caldari The Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2009.11.12 15:09:00 - [291] Originally by: Tiberizzle <snippage of informative and worthwhile content> DUDE! What are you doing? We had almost entirely derailed his troll! /facepalm... Now we have to start over...
Ebrey mark2	Posted - 2009.11.12 15:49:00 - [292] I've never salvaged anything, why is it called "Ninja-salvaging"? The intention was not to give the missionrunner the salvage, it was intended to create a new profession, right? I presume most mission runners do salvage, but they should consider that a bonus. As this game is designed for interaction, I'd suggest you hire a salvager, and pay him for the job. Eve has certain game mechanichs. Study them and then ask yourself if you find them acceptable. If not, maybe it's time find another game or hobby. One thing is for certain, CCP want's more interaction, more cooperation AND more conflict. I accept that and think it's a good thing, but you don't have to accept it. Best regards, Ebrey The Tuskers
BunnyBuzzBunny	Posted - 2009.11.16 00:51:00 - [293] Originally by: Asuri Kinnes Edited by: Asuri Kinnes on 08/11/2009 14:27:48 Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny If you are paying the insurance company....you are pre-paying for that wreck. If you don't have insurance and the vehicle is totaled you will be responsible to replace it and or give enough money to cover a replacement and you will own the wreck.(Or the insurance Co. does if they pay for a totaled vehicle.) And even if you DO have insurance...5-1 says you have a deductable.....and you still have to pay a substantual ammount. Keep going troll.....and see if you can't come up with something realistic. Trolling aside, CCP has said: "This is our game, wrecks = aggression, salvage does not". Thats what has been pointed out to you and you refuse to listen. Last but not least: One of the jobs I've had in the past was Insurance Agent. yes you pay all that money to the insurance company. (Now I'll say this slow) No matter what, under NO circumstance will YOU EVER own any part of another persons wrecked vehicle. You are not "prepaying for that wreck" - your paying insurance so that you don't have to pay, OUT OF POCKET for the damages... Title will not transfer to you, you won't have salvage rights, you won't be able to take anything from the wreck - nothing. Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny And even if you DO have insurance...5-1 says you have a deductable.....and you still have to pay a substantual ammount. Which has nothing to do with salvage or ownership - >DOLT< "This thread is about trolling..." I like pie. From Page One: Originally by: DoltBuzzBunnyDolt 5. The parts that you can take from of a wreck to make rigs for your ship are perfectly fine to take. The componets(Ninja edit: "COMPONENTS") that you could take from a wreck to attache (ATTACH) to your ship are NOT ok to take. This is perfectly logical to CCP but nobody else. Its quite logical to most everyone except you. Its been explained to you (CCP sees it as a mini-profession) - your just being an idiotic troll. Did you read where I said the insurance company will take the title? Do you even read there sparky....Bo....I guess not.....just feel the need to spew what ya spew.....its what you do.
BunnyBuzzBunny	Posted - 2009.11.16 01:11:00 - [294] Edited by: BunnyBuzzBunny on 16/11/2009 01:11:30 Originally by: Tiberizzle Edited by: Tiberizzle on 12/11/2009 00:52:17 If some carebear who actually loots and salvages his missions would like to dig further along similar lines I'm pretty sure a strong case could be made either for or against the current policy on salvage. CCP will likely disregard any such analysis, though, as they are quite obviously intentionally griefing us all with some of these ****ty game mechanics Well Tiberizzle.....Atleast you seam to have your crap together. you are right.....and the cargo should follow the same rules as so money Troll mongers have pointed out. I love the fact that lots of people try to draw IRL comparisons when it makes th eOP look bad but when the OP fires back with IRL comp they say...."Its a game" Watch how many people will talk bad to you about using IRL in this instance....then go slam some someone using IRL.....The psycology of the turds that praise you when you slam and slam you when you praise is amazingly the same crowd(I see this on several diff. game forums.....Its what happens when they can't dip mr. winky and their agressions over-write their abillity to think logically.)(Well....not really amazing when you think about it is it?) Anyway....thanks for posting truth as opposed to feelings..... Woodwraith====>Nice one toad....haven't heard this drivel before......Part of the wreck you say?....Like the contents? Asuri Kinnes===> Just because I didn't sign on does not mean that you brought anything to the table.....as usual.....as with most of everything you have probably ever done.....like your short stint in insurance.
Karadan Kaarwen	Posted - 2009.11.17 12:15:00 - [295] This thread is fun. nom nom nom
Lady Spank Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb	Posted - 2009.11.17 12:43:00 - [296] I am amazed people can talk so much about something as dumb as space junk. Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer I could go for some doritos now, damn you Spank
Gibbo5771	Posted - 2009.11.17 15:29:00 - [297] I don't see why ur ****ing idiots are still going on about this, do you walk down the street, throw a empty mars bar wrapper down and then shout at the guy who cleans it up? If I'm walking down the street, there's a thrown out pc sitting on on the sidewalk...the noobie owner is probably too rich to get it fixed and just busy a one...oh not me I 'salvage' wats left, I've got a 320gb maxtor hardrive and a few gigs of ddr2 RAM doing this before. It's rubbish and it longer belongs to anyone besides the first hobo jakey bastard like me comes along. Also posting in a whining carebear thread
Lian Xander	Posted - 2009.11.17 16:30:00 - [298] tl;dr .... YAY! Another ninja-whine thread. ________________________________________________
paxImperium	Posted - 2009.11.17 17:09:00 - [299] Originally by: Signore Kaeota In real life, if you hit someone's car with a missile you're gunna be in jail for a long, long time - get over it. As if mission farmers don't get enough isk. not if you live in afghanistan, they use cars for target practice for long time with rpg's. on the second note just cuz mission runners make isk what does that have to do with anything??, dyspro moons make a billion times more isk, i want to ninja loot their pos opperations NOW !! yes thats the actual answer to this, moon mining operations should be ninja-able as well
BunnyBuzzBunny	Posted - 2009.11.30 08:20:00 - [300] Originally by: Lian Xander tl;dr .... YAY! Another ninja-whine thread. YAY! another idiot with nothing to add but just wants to see his name up on a board somewhere because he has no life and really needs the attention because of(Place random life altering cliche here). YAY! Still.....nobody can make a logical statement about the wreck other than "Thats what CCP wants" ? Nothing that gives a truly logical rational as to why 1/2 of the space pile belongs to you but the other doesn't?

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