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Ninja salvaging and the flaws contained in CCP's sad look at legality.

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BunnyBuzzBunny	Posted - 2009.11.04 17:06:00 - [241] Originally by: James Tritanius Edited by: James Tritanius on 04/11/2009 16:25:28 Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny So then.....what is the challenge in Ninja salvaging? You probe out a mission. You fly in and salvage. WOW....That was hard and SOOOoooo Challenging. What's the challenge in salvaging your own mission? You don't even have to probe it out and you can use tractor beams. Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny What other reason could you possibly have other than greif or money? Wait... you mean there are other reasons to play EVE? According to Max Hatter there are....ask him.
BunnyBuzzBunny	Posted - 2009.11.04 17:09:00 - [242] Originally by: B1FF I stopped reading at "In the USA if you. . ." AFK parallels always fail. In AFK/RL we don't have space ships so we should remove them from EvE. Also the premise in the subject is nonsensical. There is no legality. There are only the rules CCP states. CCP says they are junk owned by no one then they are junk owned by no one. If you don't like it leave. CCP says that the rules can be changed then the rules can be changed. If you don't like it leave.
Phoben	Posted - 2009.11.04 17:46:00 - [243] Originally by: MIND SCR4MBLER CCP rule on salvage therefore follows the law on salvage at sea. if you find a wreck in the sea, ooh say the titanic or a spanish galleon full of treasure then under international maritime laws its yours to claim. Now lets say said wreck is the bismarck. sunk by the british navy in 1943. carebear emowhiner would shout "no! you cannot salvage thee wreck, belongeth to me, the british navy!" when in reality salvaging is done by hardy folk on specialist salvage vessels with lots of expensive diving and recovery gear, principally on account of the fact the navyz of the world consider it their bizness to blow up teh ships and not recoverz the lootz which is left for seafaring salvage monkeys and treasure hunters. After all if the british navy was so bothered by salvage why did they leave so much gold at the bottom of the carribbean eh? So before you come here spouting about "those darn CCP and there lack of legal morals", i suggest you avail yourself of free trip to library and look up the international maritime laws of salvage, on which all future laws of space will no doubt be based. So what we have here is validation of your ignorance OP, and not CCP's. official law on salvage therefore "finders keepers, losers emoragetearers, or quite simply first to the wreck wins" not really correct.... all wrecks are owned by someone, owner or insurance company, a salvager finding the wreck and taking from it must declare the salvage to the relevant authorities in the port they first come to ( or port of origin). Its then upto the authorities to find the legal owners of the ship, its then a deal between the legal owner and salvager for payment in lieu of salvage. It all gets pretty legal after that for in game mechanics it would work that someone pilferring wrecks would have to declare the goods to the authorities and then a deal could be struck for cold hard cash to part with the loot. If so wished or the looter has to give up the salvage or faces prosecution from the authorities. and Navys of the world take a real dim view of turning up on their sunken ships full of dead sailors and ripping salvage off them for profit.
BunnyBuzzBunny	Posted - 2009.11.04 18:59:00 - [244] Originally by: Phoben Originally by: MIND SCR4MBLER CCP rule on salvage therefore follows the law on salvage at sea. if you find a wreck in the sea, ooh say the titanic or a spanish galleon full of treasure then under international maritime laws its yours to claim. Now lets say said wreck is the bismarck. sunk by the british navy in 1943. carebear emowhiner would shout "no! you cannot salvage thee wreck, belongeth to me, the british navy!" when in reality salvaging is done by hardy folk on specialist salvage vessels with lots of expensive diving and recovery gear, principally on account of the fact the navyz of the world consider it their bizness to blow up teh ships and not recoverz the lootz which is left for seafaring salvage monkeys and treasure hunters. After all if the british navy was so bothered by salvage why did they leave so much gold at the bottom of the carribbean eh? So before you come here spouting about "those darn CCP and there lack of legal morals", i suggest you avail yourself of free trip to library and look up the international maritime laws of salvage, on which all future laws of space will no doubt be based. So what we have here is validation of your ignorance OP, and not CCP's. official law on salvage therefore "finders keepers, losers emoragetearers, or quite simply first to the wreck wins" not really correct.... all wrecks are owned by someone, owner or insurance company, a salvager finding the wreck and taking from it must declare the salvage to the relevant authorities in the port they first come to ( or port of origin). Its then upto the authorities to find the legal owners of the ship, its then a deal between the legal owner and salvager for payment in lieu of salvage. It all gets pretty legal after that for in game mechanics it would work that someone pilferring wrecks would have to declare the goods to the authorities and then a deal could be struck for cold hard cash to part with the loot. If so wished or the looter has to give up the salvage or faces prosecution from the authorities. and Navys of the world take a real dim view of turning up on their sunken ships full of dead sailors and ripping salvage off them for profit. Bravo sir.....Someone that actually knows what they are talking about and not a 13yo spewing crap from atop his head. I truly like it when someone claims to know the rules of something...spews their "Knowledge" all over the floor....then gets it mopped up by someone that actually knows. Then here comes the second problem....Idiots that will say"Well you shouldn't make IRL compparisons.", Although these idiots never say that when someone is trying to do an IRL comp. that discredits the OP......It is simply a biassed approach that leaves them looking like idiots. Anyway....good post Phoben...Bravo.
BunnyBuzzBunny	Posted - 2009.11.04 19:06:00 - [245] Edited by: BunnyBuzzBunny on 04/11/2009 19:09:33 Originally by: arbiter reformed IN 'UMERICA WE GOT MAD AND SHOOT STUFF WHEN PPL TAKE OUR **!!! YEH Blah blah blah.....Another loser from a third world country that is so ashamed to admit where he comes from but is none-the-less glad to attempt to mock a country that he has no true first hand knowledge of besides the media that his third world country blows up his a. First off....This isn't a place to vent your SPS or your dislike for a country(That probably kicked your pathetic ass some time in the past.) There are other forums for that in other web sites where people still could care less about your insesant whining. Second...AS I would figure from a back-woods idiot....nothing to say....just has to wave his flag for attention.....well....you should be happy now...you got some. CONGRATS. (mumbles something about tardation and imbreeding results.)
Jofridur	Posted - 2009.11.04 19:23:00 - [246] It's game mechanics. Which means it is the way it is supposed to be and working correctly. I find your game vs reality comparison hilarious because of just that, and the way you try to defend it too. If you don't like people salvaging your wrecks and want to do something about it why don't just wardec them or suicide gank them? Play the game everyone else is playing.
BunnyBuzzBunny	Posted - 2009.11.04 19:40:00 - [247] Originally by: Jofridur It's game mechanics. Which means it is the way it is supposed to be and working correctly. I find your game vs reality comparison hilarious because of just that, and the way you try to defend it too. If you don't like people salvaging your wrecks and want to do something about it why don't just wardec them or suicide gank them? Play the game everyone else is playing. Duh....another brainchild adding nothing.....The game can be changed....said this a thousand times and keep saying it because there are so many simpletons that repeat the same spew you just did. So what did you think of other peoples cap. to reality?.....or are you just biassed?
Jessica Lorelei Minmatar Decimus Corp	Posted - 2009.11.04 19:53:00 - [248] Its a fictional universe real world does not apply, nothing in this world applies. your points about real laws, are null and void, much like you. BTW I'm not in a 3rd world country before you start spouting your xenophobic bull**** again. p.s. where do you mission?
Benedict Carol	Posted - 2009.11.04 19:54:00 - [249] Originally by: Jessica Lorelei Its a fictional universe real world does not apply, nothing in this world applies. your points about real laws, are null and void, much like you. BTW I'm not in a 3rd world country before you start spouting your xenophobic bull**** again. p.s. where do you mission? Based on locater agents, I'm betting he doesn't move around much :)
Marchocias Silent Ninja's	Posted - 2009.11.04 20:00:00 - [250] Just popped in to say STFU. ---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it).

BunnyBuzzBunny	Posted - 2009.11.04 20:03:00 - [251] Originally by: Jessica Lorelei Its a fictional universe real world does not apply, nothing in this world applies. your points about real laws, are null and void, much like you. BTW I'm not in a 3rd world country before you start spouting your xenophobic bull**** again. p.s. where do you mission? First off.....Xenophobic?....had you actually read I only stated that in response to a xenophobe. Perhaps you should take a comprehension course so that you can understand what you read. Also on this subject.....To all idiots that think that ALL americans think that their country is the greatest.....Grow up. Stop taking what ever propaganda you take for your god. Open your eyes. Learn reality. There are a lot of people here that hate this country. Secondly they try to apply real world in 90% of combat.....Trajectory....size relations....speed....So just stuff the "Don't compare with real life" BS....it gets old. Third.....Just ask your mom.....I am sure she knows.
Jessica Lorelei Minmatar Decimus Corp	Posted - 2009.11.04 20:06:00 - [252] Edited by: Jessica Lorelei on 04/11/2009 20:08:13 well thanks for the hot headed patriotic bull**, and the ad hominem attack, which pretty much proves my point. ever played unreal tournament? everything in that game would be illegal how about GTA? mortal kombat? THIS IS GAME ***** also ccp made the game universe what they say goes, what you say does not. really it is that simple, as far as the eve universe is concerned ccp are god.
BunnyBuzzBunny	Posted - 2009.11.04 20:08:00 - [253] Edited by: BunnyBuzzBunny on 04/11/2009 20:09:14 Originally by: Jessica Lorelei well thanks for the hot headed patrotic bull**, and the ad hominem attack, THIS IS GAME ***** LOL.....and non have proven them selves more ass than yourself.....For someone that thinks Eve is an OS you should really STFU. you prove your ignorance way too often....and not just on this thread. Again....said again and again......CCP can also change those rules.....don't be a tard and think that they can't.
Jessica Lorelei Minmatar Decimus Corp	Posted - 2009.11.04 20:11:00 - [254] i did not say they can't change the rules, i am saying you are wrong, and ccp have already said what is to happen. your only say is with your wallet.
BunnyBuzzBunny	Posted - 2009.11.04 20:14:00 - [255] Originally by: Benedict Carol Originally by: Jessica Lorelei Its a fictional universe real world does not apply, nothing in this world applies. your points about real laws, are null and void, much like you. BTW I'm not in a 3rd world country before you start spouting your xenophobic bull**** again. p.s. where do you mission? Based on locater agents, I'm betting he doesn't move around much :) Nope....he/she/it isn't smart enough to use a locater....That would take a little intel....and they are proving time and again that they don't have it.
Jessica Lorelei Minmatar Decimus Corp	Posted - 2009.11.04 20:23:00 - [256] suprise suprise its a noob corp alt, how convienient.
BunnyBuzzBunny	Posted - 2009.11.04 20:27:00 - [257] Originally by: Jessica Lorelei suprise suprise its a noob corp alt, how convienient. suprise suprise...you actually were smart enough to attempt to look me up.
FireT Gallente As Far As The eYe can see	Posted - 2009.11.04 20:31:00 - [258] Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny At least in Germany it doesnt work that way. If you wreck someones car, its still HIS car and you (or your insurance company, and I work for one) have to pay for the repair of said car or for replacement. Ownership never changes... Even if the car is totaled and you have to fully replace it the insurance company doesn't buy the car in in the proccess? The person that you ran into gets the car and a new one? Holy crap man, you are the single most funny troll ever. I mean your pretension of stupidity is amazingly hilarious. Seriously man, nice job. I mean even in the US they do not give you the wreck. I would laugh my ass of it a neighbor of mine totaled someone's car and got the trash (totaled car) dumped in front of their lawn. And if you are actually as stupid as this topic proved, please don't ever reproduce. Sorry had to make that disclaimer, since in the US we cover both sides of an argument.
BunnyBuzzBunny	Posted - 2009.11.04 20:43:00 - [259] Originally by: FireT Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny At least in Germany it doesnt work that way. If you wreck someones car, its still HIS car and you (or your insurance company, and I work for one) have to pay for the repair of said car or for replacement. Ownership never changes... Even if the car is totaled and you have to fully replace it the insurance company doesn't buy the car in in the proccess? The person that you ran into gets the car and a new one? Holy crap man, you are the single most funny troll ever. I mean your pretension of stupidity is amazingly hilarious. Seriously man, nice job. I mean even in the US they do not give you the wreck. I would laugh my ass of it a neighbor of mine totaled someone's car and got the trash (totaled car) dumped in front of their lawn. And if you are actually as stupid as this topic proved, please don't ever reproduce. Sorry had to make that disclaimer, since in the US we cover both sides of an argument. You obviously have never seen the dealing of a totaled vehicle. The insurance DOES buy the wreck and usually sell it to a salvage company.
FireT Gallente As Far As The eYe can see	Posted - 2009.11.04 20:47:00 - [260] Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny Originally by: FireT Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny At least in Germany it doesnt work that way. If you wreck someones car, its still HIS car and you (or your insurance company, and I work for one) have to pay for the repair of said car or for replacement. Ownership never changes... So by your own mentally ******ed logic and subsequent admission: CONCORD or whatever corporation does give you the mission should own the rights to the wrecks in Eve? And should they then come and pod you for stealing their stuff? I mean the wreck is caused by you. But your insurance, in other words the NPC corp giving you the mission or whoever you insured with, should own wrecks. So once again you fail to see the fault of actual real life logic in your statements. Thus making my previous request more urgent: don't reproduce. Even if the car is totaled and you have to fully replace it the insurance company doesn't buy the car in in the proccess? The person that you ran into gets the car and a new one? Holy crap man, you are the single most funny troll ever. I mean your pretension of stupidity is amazingly hilarious. Seriously man, nice job. I mean even in the US they do not give you the wreck. I would laugh my ass of it a neighbor of mine totaled someone's car and got the trash (totaled car) dumped in front of their lawn. And if you are actually as stupid as this topic proved, please don't ever reproduce. Sorry had to make that disclaimer, since in the US we cover both sides of an argument. You obviously have never seen the dealing of a totaled vehicle. The insurance DOES buy the wreck and usually sell it to a salvage company.

Roastedpot Blutkinder	Posted - 2009.11.04 21:00:00 - [261] this thread started off with no value and somehow continued to diminish.. astonishing
BunnyBuzzBunny	Posted - 2009.11.04 21:00:00 - [262] Originally by: FireT Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny Originally by: FireT Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny At least in Germany it doesnt work that way. If you wreck someones car, its still HIS car and you (or your insurance company, and I work for one) have to pay for the repair of said car or for replacement. Ownership never changes... So by your own mentally ******ed logic and subsequent admission: CONCORD or whatever corporation does give you the mission should own the rights to the wrecks in Eve? And should they then come and pod you for stealing their stuff? I mean the wreck is caused by you. But your insurance, in other words the NPC corp giving you the mission or whoever you insured with, should own wrecks. So once again you fail to see the fault of actual real life logic in your statements. Thus making my previous request more urgent: don't reproduce. Even if the car is totaled and you have to fully replace it the insurance company doesn't buy the car in in the proccess? The person that you ran into gets the car and a new one? Holy crap man, you are the single most funny troll ever. I mean your pretension of stupidity is amazingly hilarious. Seriously man, nice job. I mean even in the US they do not give you the wreck. I would laugh my ass of it a neighbor of mine totaled someone's car and got the trash (totaled car) dumped in front of their lawn. And if you are actually as stupid as this topic proved, please don't ever reproduce. Sorry had to make that disclaimer, since in the US we cover both sides of an argument. You obviously have never seen the dealing of a totaled vehicle. The insurance DOES buy the wreck and usually sell it to a salvage company. Atleast discolor your words so everything doesn't run together in a non-sensical waste of effort. And BTW.....Do reproduce...You are making the U.S. what all the people that hate it see it as....loaded with idiots.
WTFAMILOOKINGAT	Posted - 2009.11.04 21:29:00 - [263] You mad Buzz?
Roastedpot Blutkinder	Posted - 2009.11.04 21:34:00 - [264] Originally by: WTFAMILOOKINGAT You mad Buzz? i think he is
FireT Gallente As Far As The eYe can see	Posted - 2009.11.04 21:38:00 - [265] Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny Atleast discolor your words so everything doesn't run together in a non-sensical waste of effort. And BTW.....Do reproduce...You are making the U.S. what all the people that hate it see it as....loaded with idiots. This is actually funny. Congrats. And yes I will reproduce, once I find the lady of my dreams. Till then I try to enjoy the topic, if you don't mind of course. Again, you claim that you should own a wreck, yet you admit that the insurance company technically paid for it. Thus you never had the right to grab the wreck in real life. And on the occasion that you ever do actually get to total someone's car (hopefully neither side will be injured, though unlikely) go ahead and try to take stuff out of the other person's car. Slightly impossible since the person will be still alive. And if you killed them, even if they were a criminal in the US, you would get arrested. Thus everything you spouted got nullified by actual logic.
Feilamya Pelennor Swarm THE KLINGONS	Posted - 2009.11.04 21:43:00 - [266] Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny Edited by: BunnyBuzzBunny on 11/10/2009 04:59:14 Before you start to post here.... ....use the search function. dumbass.
Terranid Meester Tactical Assault and Recon Unit	Posted - 2009.11.04 22:33:00 - [267] Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny I am a n00B
Terranid Meester Tactical Assault and Recon Unit	Posted - 2009.11.04 22:43:00 - [268] Originally by: CCP Incognito Edited by: CCP Incognito on 03/11/2009 18:45:27 Had a chat with some designers this evening. Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private. They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks. New dev quote here from Ideas & Discussions a forum. If the OP really wants it changed then they should run for the CSM, go to Iceland and meet the devs to explain why it should be changed. And my haircut is of a traditional Intaki stylee, passed down to generations, how dare you insult my traditional Intaki heritage!
BunnyBuzzBunny	Posted - 2009.11.04 22:56:00 - [269] Originally by: FireT Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny Atleast discolor your words so everything doesn't run together in a non-sensical waste of effort. And BTW.....Do reproduce...You are making the U.S. what all the people that hate it see it as....loaded with idiots. This is actually funny. Congrats. And yes I will reproduce, once I find the lady of my dreams. Till then I try to enjoy the topic, if you don't mind of course. Again, you claim that you should own a wreck, yet you admit that the insurance company technically paid for it. Thus you never had the right to grab the wreck in real life. And on the occasion that you ever do actually get to total someone's car (hopefully neither side will be injured, though unlikely) go ahead and try to take stuff out of the other person's car. Slightly impossible since the person will be still alive. And if you killed them, even if they were a criminal in the US, you would get arrested. Thus everything you spouted got nullified by actual logic. Take your half logic using tard self elsewhere. Ofcourse if you only use part of anything you can twist it around.....congrat idiot american.....you win in your little corner.
FireT Gallente As Far As The eYe can see	Posted - 2009.11.05 00:05:00 - [270] Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny Originally by: FireT Originally by: BunnyBuzzBunny Atleast discolor your words so everything doesn't run together in a non-sensical waste of effort. And BTW.....Do reproduce...You are making the U.S. what all the people that hate it see it as....loaded with idiots. This is actually funny. Congrats. And yes I will reproduce, once I find the lady of my dreams. Till then I try to enjoy the topic, if you don't mind of course. Again, you claim that you should own a wreck, yet you admit that the insurance company technically paid for it. Thus you never had the right to grab the wreck in real life. And on the occasion that you ever do actually get to total someone's car (hopefully neither side will be injured, though unlikely) go ahead and try to take stuff out of the other person's car. Slightly impossible since the person will be still alive. And if you killed them, even if they were a criminal in the US, you would get arrested. Thus everything you spouted got nullified by actual logic. Take your half logic using tard self elsewhere. Ofcourse if you only use part of anything you can twist it around.....congrat idiot american.....you win in your little corner. Ah the American humor: waaaa waaaaa waaaaaaaaa And when someone comes along and points out how wrong you are: WAAAAAAAAAAA Thank you man, you made me laugh all day.



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