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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Kuar Z'thain Fraser's Finest	Posted - 2009.11.20 22:05:00 - [1381] Edited by: Kuar Z''thain on 20/11/2009 22:05:09 Deleting posts is unconstructive Disagreement is not unconstructive You can have a discussion or you can have censorship, not both because they are mutually exclusive. 1303
Serj Darek Minmatar Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2009.11.20 22:05:00 - [1382] Edited by: Serj Darek on 20/11/2009 22:05:11 Why are you effectively destroying all super-capital class ships? I would recommend not bothering with the super-capital changes until it's sorted since six months w/ two broken classes seems moronic. My suspicion is a middle-manager didn't approve of the changes and decided to fly in and..... Post 1304 Teadaze for CSM
Orgell Evaan Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.11.20 22:06:00 - [1383] With the horrendous Nag renerf, should I even bother with it, or just forget capitals for the next six months and backfill the other races' subcaps?
Jimer Lins Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.11.20 22:06:00 - [1384] Another bit of fallout (no pun intended) from this debacle is one that CCP should rightly be wary of. Specifically, they have ensured that actual player participation on Sisi in upcoming game changes is going to be minimal to non-existent from now on. Nobody's going to bother testing changes when they are simply wholesale shredded. Everyone who does any testing expects changes, but for those who spent any signifcant time testing Dominion changes to caps, I would bet they are (rightly) feeling like they just got kicked in the junk and had a whole lot of their time utterly wasted. There's a difference between incorporating feedback and making meaningful changes and simply discarding a ton of hard work wholesale. Killboard-Declarations of War Podcast
Bilbo II Serenity Engineering and Transport Company Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.11.20 22:08:00 - [1385] Originally by: Toman Torax Originally by: CCP Navigator Hello everyone, While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly. Abathur proposed changes to supercarriers. We tested them. WE GAVE YOU FEEDBACK. They seemed perfectly fair and balanced. Your response was to THROW AWAY god only knows how many months of planning on your side, and two months of testing and feedback from the players. Now, even after all of that, we again try to offer you feedback, and ideas and solutions, and your response is to COMPLETELY IGNORE IT - and even worse, let someone who CLEARLY DOES NOT UNDERSTAND how capital ships work to puke all over this thread with nonsensical spreadsheet data. CCP, seriously... HOW DO YOU EXPECT US TO RESPOND? Deleting posts left and right that you arbitrarily deem "inappropriate" is NOT helping your cause. You are causing a SOE NGE catastrophe all over again, and you can't even see it. Can you PLEASE get someone COMPETENT who UNDERSTANDS the way capital ships actually work to get back on these issues once again. Someone like... ABATHUR maybe? /signed
Jack Gilligan THE MuPPeT FaCTOrY	Posted - 2009.11.20 22:09:00 - [1386] Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 20/11/2009 22:08:53 I think the mods have target painted this thread. 1308, pg 44
paik Minmatar H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.11.20 22:09:00 - [1387] CCP NOZH BAD POSTING FOR LIFE ________________________________________ LOLNOZHLOL
CEO Rockhound Minmatar	Posted - 2009.11.20 22:09:00 - [1388] Originally by: Trilli Shaw What is all the fuzz about?? I don't get it! Dominion : - free from the shackles of pos-warfare - free from the shackles of cap-warfare - free from the shackles of war for space - free from the shackles of supercaps - free from Eve, finally Ain't it great?? Well, I did petition this to CCP Accounting on all accounts. Glad you did to.
Pelvis Rodman	Posted - 2009.11.20 22:10:00 - [1389] Edited by: Pelvis Rodman on 20/11/2009 22:10:32 Originally by: Bilbo II Originally by: Toman Torax Originally by: CCP Navigator Hello everyone, While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly. Abathur proposed changes to supercarriers. We tested them. WE GAVE YOU FEEDBACK. They seemed perfectly fair and balanced. Your response was to THROW AWAY god only knows how many months of planning on your side, and two months of testing and feedback from the players. Now, even after all of that, we again try to offer you feedback, and ideas and solutions, and your response is to COMPLETELY IGNORE IT - and even worse, let someone who CLEARLY DOES NOT UNDERSTAND how capital ships work to puke all over this thread with nonsensical spreadsheet data. CCP, seriously... HOW DO YOU EXPECT US TO RESPOND? Deleting posts left and right that you arbitrarily deem "inappropriate" is NOT helping your cause. You are causing a SOE NGE catastrophe all over again, and you can't even see it. Can you PLEASE get someone COMPETENT who UNDERSTANDS the way capital ships actually work to get back on these issues once again. Someone like... ABATHUR maybe? /signed /signed again POST NUMBER 1311
Sajeera	Posted - 2009.11.20 22:10:00 - [1390] Edited by: Sajeera on 20/11/2009 22:10:28 Originally by: Jack Gilligan Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 20/11/2009 22:08:53 I think the mods have target painted this thread. 1308, pg 44 Target painters don't work on reinforced threads [1312]

Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2009.11.20 22:10:00 - [1391] Originally by: Toman Torax Originally by: CCP Navigator Hello everyone, While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly. Abathur proposed changes to supercarriers. We tested them. WE GAVE YOU FEEDBACK. They seemed perfectly fair and balanced. Your response was to THROW AWAY god only knows how many months of planning on your side, and two months of testing and feedback from the players. Now, even after all of that, we again try to offer you feedback, and ideas and solutions, and your response is to COMPLETELY IGNORE IT - and even worse, let someone who CLEARLY DOES NOT UNDERSTAND how capital ships work to puke all over this thread with nonsensical spreadsheet data. CCP, seriously... HOW DO YOU EXPECT US TO RESPOND? Deleting posts left and right that you arbitrarily deem "inappropriate" is NOT helping your cause. You are causing a SOE NGE catastrophe all over again, and you can't even see it. Can you PLEASE get someone COMPETENT who UNDERSTANDS the way capital ships actually work to get back on these issues once again. Someone like... ABATHUR maybe? I can only agree here. What are we supposed to do? After testing weeks and months those things on the test server they get discared from a total stranger (well not so strange for those who know that guy ) who just walked in. And from that point everything pretty fast went complete bonkers. How and WHY should we ever do some testing on test server again and give feedback and do work - yes it IS work! - for you if all we get is the finger and not even TWO replies from the devs after thousands of posts? What else should we do than demanding answers and expressing our feelings???
Nymysys GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.20 22:12:00 - [1392] CCP is receiving a great deal of attention from various gaming press sites concerning what is going on in this thread. They have apparently not learned from the last time this happened.
Flaming Lemming Caldari Puppeteer Press	Posted - 2009.11.20 22:14:00 - [1393] Originally by: Jimer Lins Another bit of fallout (no pun intended) from this debacle is one that CCP should rightly be wary of. Specifically, they have ensured that actual player participation on Sisi in upcoming game changes is going to be minimal to non-existent from now on. Nobody's going to bother testing changes when they are simply wholesale shredded. Everyone who does any testing expects changes, but for those who spent any signifcant time testing Dominion changes to caps, I would bet they are (rightly) feeling like they just got kicked in the junk and had a whole lot of their time utterly wasted. There's a difference between incorporating feedback and making meaningful changes and simply discarding a ton of hard work wholesale. This sounds about right.
Ryan Powers Caldari Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.20 22:15:00 - [1394] Originally by: Toman Torax Abathur proposed changes to supercarriers. We tested them. WE GAVE YOU FEEDBACK. They seemed perfectly fair and balanced. Your response was to THROW AWAY god only knows how many months of planning on your side, and two months of testing and feedback from the players. Now, even after all of that, we again try to offer you feedback, and ideas and solutions, and your response is to COMPLETELY IGNORE IT - and even worse, let someone who CLEARLY DOES NOT UNDERSTAND how capital ships work to puke all over this thread with nonsensical spreadsheet data. CCP, seriously... HOW DO YOU EXPECT US TO RESPOND? Deleting posts left and right that you arbitrarily deem "inappropriate" is NOT helping your cause. You are causing a SOE NGE catastrophe all over again, and you can't even see it. Can you PLEASE get someone COMPETENT who UNDERSTANDS the way capital ships actually work to get back on these issues once again. Someone like... ABATHUR maybe? Quoted for a compelling argument. Free Abathur!
Tommy Blue Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.20 22:15:00 - [1395] Originally by: Kraken Kill Just do this. Motherships Get Dread Jump range. Motherships get 20 Drones at Lvl 5 carrier. Citadel torps AND Cruise get 1500 Explosion Radius, Torps (and compact get roughly 60ms explo velocity). Motherships get a EHP buff. Fighter Bombers (with 20 fighter bombers and lvl 5 fighter bomber) do roughly 8000 dps+ Motherships cant dock Motherships dont get build costs reduced Motherships lose triage and clone vat to balance the increased damage. Titans Get 5minute DD timer. Titans get the same damage as 2-3 Dreads (8-12k dps) with lvl 5 Titan. Naglfars dont get a split weapon bonus (the dread with 4! weapons should be doing the most damage. Currently the Nags artys with EMP (20 shots) has to reload every 5 mins, which is sooner than every other dread and it requires carrying more ammo types). Phoenix should get a 5% ROF damage bonus and a 5% bonus to ALL missile damage types. Cit Cruise and torps should have 1500m explo raduis, being make smaller with skills for the cruise so they are effective against large pos mods and small pos. Right now Turret ships can still hit medium and small pos mods for massive damage while missile dreads FAIL extremely FAIL at this. Do this and ALL problems will go away. Everything will be good. Harmony will spread out among the player base. This is TESTED BY THE PLAYERBASE and everyone was in agreement. Only your shortsighted Egomania felt that Capships being used aggressively was a bad idea. Also- I think you are out of line starting your post with a 'Lets see' as if the players are all idiots and have missed something. You CANNOT impliment ANY of these Titan changes if you are going to leave motherships as they are. You have also forgotten to do any work on Triage- It was said originally that Triage duration would be cut to 5mins and strontium consumption would be reduced. Why you feel Torpedos need something so bizarre as a 3000+ explo radius ive no clue, you are terrible for causing more problems with your problem ideas. CCP Nozh, do this now and maybe...maybe we will forgive you. Ehàprobably not.
CobraStylez Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.20 22:16:00 - [1396] Has there been any response from the devs on this? ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ " " " ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿̿ ̿̿̿̿̿̿̿'̿'\̵͇̿̿\=((ò̪●))=/̿̿&
Shamisen	Posted - 2009.11.20 22:16:00 - [1397] Originally by: Jack Gilligan Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 20/11/2009 22:08:53 I think the mods have target painted this thread. 1308, pg 44 Time to go siege red!
Isonda Gallente Okkelen Grave Robbers	Posted - 2009.11.20 22:16:00 - [1398] Originally by: Nymysys CCP is receiving a great deal of attention from various gaming press sites concerning what is going on in this thread. They have apparently not learned from the last time this happened. post killmail or it did not happen..
Darriele Minmatar	Posted - 2009.11.20 22:17:00 - [1399] Edited by: Darriele on 20/11/2009 22:17:10 Originally by: CobraStylez Has there been any response from the devs on this? No, but .. FREE ABATHUR 1321 45
Thrud Valkyries Minmatar Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.11.20 22:17:00 - [1400] Edited by: Thrud Valkyries on 20/11/2009 22:18:37 Originally by: CobraStylez Has there been any response from the devs on this? Nope, just the one single fail post from Nozh about 5 DCUs and 3 TPs. [1322] [45]

Sertan Deras Gallente Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.20 22:18:00 - [1401] I see CCP is doing damage control interviews on MMORPG.com, where they quickly gloss over the mothership changes, completely forgetting to mention that the ships are incredibly expensive, have been basically useless for quite a while, and are going to continue to be useless because CCP put an inept developer in charge of capital ship changes.
Trilli Shaw	Posted - 2009.11.20 22:19:00 - [1402] Originally by: CobraStylez Has there been any response from the devs on this? Oh yes, ONE reply so far with lots of nonsense talk about that you need and not need target painters. That siege mode will magically increase the damge you recieve and that your tanking abilities are increased and decreased at the same time. Funny graphs completly irrelevant to the topic. Yeah, there was ONE dev reply ... Just LOL - talking about excellency.
Strabo44 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.20 22:20:00 - [1403] Originally by: Toman Torax Originally by: CCP Navigator Hello everyone, While we all appreciate that this is a very hot topic item we would urge you to be constructive and on topic with your feedback. Personal attacks, flaming and trolling will not be permitted and posts of this nature will be removed by the Community team and may result in a warning or ban. We want you to discuss this issue but it must remain on topic and friendly. Abathur proposed changes to supercarriers. We tested them. WE GAVE YOU FEEDBACK. They seemed perfectly fair and balanced. Your response was to THROW AWAY god only knows how many months of planning on your side, and two months of testing and feedback from the players. Now, even after all of that, we again try to offer you feedback, and ideas and solutions, and your response is to COMPLETELY IGNORE IT - and even worse, let someone who CLEARLY DOES NOT UNDERSTAND how capital ships work to puke all over this thread with nonsensical spreadsheet data. CCP, seriously... HOW DO YOU EXPECT US TO RESPOND? Deleting posts left and right that you arbitrarily deem "inappropriate" is NOT helping your cause. You are causing a SOE NGE catastrophe all over again, and you can't even see it. Can you PLEASE get someone COMPETENT who UNDERSTANDS the way capital ships actually work to get back on these issues once again. Someone like... ABATHUR maybe? ****ing hell I'm agreeing with a sys-k dude.
Hratli Smirks GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.20 22:20:00 - [1404] Edited by: Hratli Smirks on 20/11/2009 22:20:34 These Dev blog threads haven't been going very well lately. Your post to clear up that "yeah I totally knew you can't target paint any of that stuff and here's some fighter damage graphs against target painted dreads to prove it" was kind of confusing and did not actually instill any confidence in your understanding of basic mechanics. 1326
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2009.11.20 22:21:00 - [1405] Originally by: Zy'or Tealon Originally by: Hrin Edited by: Hrin on 20/11/2009 21:52:47 Stop hating Nozh, he is a real person with feelings and you guys are hurting them (1262) Hey I've tried to help Nozh out back in post 867... [1301] You mean post 267?
Kris Longknife Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.20 22:22:00 - [1406] Originally by: Nymysys CCP is receiving a great deal of attention from various gaming press sites concerning what is going on in this thread. They have apparently not learned from the last time this happened. Can we get a link, I'd very much like to read those stories.
KeratinBoy GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.20 22:22:00 - [1407] Edited by: KeratinBoy on 20/11/2009 22:22:23 Still waiting on some competent person to respond competently to this thread from CCP. Hint: Trying to wriggle out of this idiocy in your usual manner is not the way to go. Post 1329
Nymysys GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.20 22:22:00 - [1408] Originally by: Isonda post killmail or it did not happen.. Sorry, looks like it was deleted
McTecman GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.20 22:24:00 - [1409] I honestly don't understand how a company, responsible for a product like EVE, can afford to make such sudden late-announced changes literally two weeks from 'supposedly' shipping. Even worse, changes that go against a lengthy developer-player process that has taken all of us (both players and developers) a very long time to plan, debate, implement, test, change, followed by a feedback loop. It's like not only are you throwing away our input on ideas that, generally, we welcomed quite a bit, but also destroying your own work, and by the method you're doing this, also your credibility. I don't have anything against Nozh personally, but it just seems like the dude isn't really knowledgeable enough on the aspects of the game he's supposedly in charge in (or enough in charge in to write developer blogs about) to be either a one-man think tank, or a front for some really, really bad ideas from a circle of developers that would probably do better in spread-sheeting random data or painting pixels than arguing about the aspects and mechanics of ships that consume a lot of time, money and effort to get into. Or take an existing idea, break it, then attempt to fix only the left side while letting the right side remain shattered. Especially since the original ideas were either from, or at least gathered and presented by, a persona that 0.0 players were familiar with and thought "Hey, I flew with this guy / shot at this guy, I know he played a part of the game I'm playing, I'm SURE that even if I disagree with him he at least knows what the hell he's doing and has actually played his part." And it's not just the ideas themselves, but this sudden ping-ponging between yes and no, green and red, then after all the initial drama going all apologetic and rolling back certain parts of a design that's too dependent on too many variables to remain stable without really thinking that it makes the game even worse than pre-Dominion for some people that have invested quite a bit of time and effort. And it's not some sort of entitlement problem, or 'the old guard' issue - it's the possibility of losing an asset that's quite a bit expensive in two or three shots. This is beyond "lol 0.0 whining about mommies~", it's about CCP's attitude in this manner as well. And I'm not talking just about the past few days, take a look at the entire problem from a more distant perspective: After all the work done in order to show the company in a positive light (CMS, IA), all the olive branches and trying to work together in a meaningful manner via the CMS and the fanfest roundtables... Only to be broken by one lousy badly-written devblog (from a developer that doesn't seem to grasp some basics in the mechanics that he's supposed to fix, sorry Nozh & krew) that is basically taking a huge... on the playerbase, not just capital or supercapital pilots. Imagine if this was either your favourite ship or ship class. Or imagine if it was a ship/ship class your ship/ship class counters. Or, hell, imagine if Titans were suddenly hi-sec ships that could vapourize all the assets inside a certain player's hangar(s) in one shot. The mothership issue is why we're 'whining'. The attitude towards us all however is why we've being very vocal about it. Excellence indeed. And jesus christ you have goons agreeing with The Star Fraction. furthermore; :words: oh god im posting on eve-o what have i done
Johnette Napolitano	Posted - 2009.11.20 22:25:00 - [1410] If you guys want to get CCP's attention in a way they simply can't ignore, as many 0.0 corps/alliances as possible should declare a day (oh, say, Sunday?) as D-Day for Eve. Go to every crowded mission hub, every trade hub, every mining hub, and suicide every damn ship you find. And keep doing it. Ya'll have high sec alts to place ships for you, that isn't an issue. Insurance is a joke - cost is barely an issue. 10,000 crying carebears (of which I'm one) will get you results a lot faster than this thread ever will.



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