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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |

Malphilos
State War Academy Caldari State
109
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 02:57:00 -
[31] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: So your answer is to make space unentrenchable, meaning all of it becomes deserted and unused.
You're suggesting people will only hang out where they're safe?
That would explain the current circle jerk. |

Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
11
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 03:07:00 -
[32] - Quote
I am going to suggest what I have been told since day one about EVE. EVE is only as good as you make it. Therefore I suggest the problem is not null sec vs high sec. The problem is the players in null sec itself. If they are not engaged in the game then they are the problem. We have met the enemy and they are us!
This idea that null is dying is not new. Many players make the comment that null is boring even null players themselves. And to that I say again look in the mirror. High sec is not nulls problem. Null sec is nulls problem. Doctor heal thy self.
I do not think it is CCP's problem either. The game has evolved into what the players have made it. IE. Null is the way it is because of the players in null. Not because of high sec. |

BuckStrider
Nano-Tech Experiments
63
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 03:28:00 -
[33] - Quote
Adelphie wrote:In Eve I am almost exclusively a small gang/solo pvper.!
Problem Identified.
Just join Goons/TEST ...I mean you CAN join those other renter null sec alliances like AAA or Cascade or even IAC. But why set yourself up as a target because one of those 'other' alliance leaders **** off 'The Martini' at the wrong time. |

Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
84
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 03:37:00 -
[34] - Quote
My brilliant solution: A level 1 pirate epic arc in the mould of Blood-Stained Stars. The missions can be accomplished in a competent T1 frigate, you'd be given a tour of a subset of NPC nullsec, and at one point you'll be able to select a pirate faction to ally you in a battle against a CONCORD foe. In return for a large increase to your standing with the selected faction (7% like SoE, say, but you get in addition whatever amount is required to escape the "you can only do L1 missions for us" area of negative faction standing), you get a large decrease in your standing with all empires.
As a token anti-camping gesture, since this is supposed to entice people into nullsec: the entire arc of missions can be completed/accepted remotely, and none of the missions will couriers.
Red text in the missions should cram 'player skill' information about nullsec, advice on how to use the map to plot a reasonable course to Venal, etc.
The upsides of this:
1. People can explicitly choose to complete this arc and reject the empires and be given a standings kick in the butt to this end, as rookies once more mildly did with Letters of Recommendation into FW.
2. Consequently, more people in NPC null, which is right next door to sov null, on the way to sov null, and only accessible through sov null, depending. Life in NPC null doesn't need to be great, it just needs to be greased a bit - there is already the powerful attraction of pirates being 'cool'; and once you're there, you'll naturally be interested in what your neighbors are up, so the new blood flows into all of nullsec.
The downsides:
1. What's easier for new players / 'mains' is just as easier for soulless farming alts who will reduce the income from LP and then disappear off to their 'real jobs' rather than live in and enliven the area. |

Lipbite
Express Hauler
86
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 03:44:00 -
[35] - Quote
Right now attempt to enter null-sec for a carebear seems like 100% risk to lose ships and implants. So
1) make insurance for implants - or jump clones available every 3 hours + lower cost of clones;
2) make whole ship insurable - including modules and rigs;
3) make full insurance cost much less.
Next day there will be non-stop massacre. However present nullbears won't be happy watching their POSes being desintegrated by RvB casuals. |

Jimmy Gunsmythe
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
27
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 03:51:00 -
[36] - Quote
And this is why florists should never be tapped to remove a tumor that is deep within the brain.
Whatever, I'm just amazed that after all this time, the-smarter-than-your-average-MMO-players still don't get it. This game will get run into the ground for a little self-gratification and sense of entitlement. A good predator knows how to live in balance with his prey, lest he follow them into oblivion. |

Ivy Romanova
All Your Machariel Belong to Ham Industrial Technonauts
33
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 03:53:00 -
[37] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:ban npc corps nerf highsec station refining rate overhaul 0.0 industry in general add capital strip miner for rorquals that only works on low end ore
or just walk into low sec and get your nipples shot off |

Crunchie Attuxors
Always Another Corporate Venture
18
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 03:57:00 -
[38] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:ban npc corps nerf highsec station refining rate overhaul 0.0 industry in general add capital strip miner for rorquals that only works on low end ore
LOL
You know what will happen right?
Nullsec will become highsec, with a bunch of people paying concord.
Jita would die, but then a system in each null area would be picked to play the same role. Major sov holders will essentially be forced to be space police for ever, with nothing else to do.
Hence, they leave. It snowballs.
Game dies.
Understand this: Burn Jita proved the problem is not mechanics per se, but how incentives are spread. What matters is sov, and the resources it brings. Everything else is the cost of doing business.
What you propose will simple entrench all that is wrong with null today, while breaking the steady influx of new players that bring cash and plex into the system.
All that moon goo isk needs to be generated by someone, and it is not generated in Null.
It is simple economics. Null and empire have a symbiosis, and a tension, and that is a key motor of the economy. You stop that, the economy dies, or becomes the barter/wage slavery of null, were the measure of success is a plex a month, and you get all your stuff giving to you by the indies of your alliance for zero isk.
Your voodoo economics would be the doom of EVE, in real money terms, as well as isk and plex.
Eve forums official anthem:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pudOFG5X6uA |

Crunchie Attuxors
Always Another Corporate Venture
18
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 03:58:00 -
[39] - Quote
Jimmy Gunsmythe wrote:And this is why florists should never be tapped to remove a tumor that is deep within the brain.
Whatever, I'm just amazed that after all this time, the-smarter-than-your-average-MMO-players still don't get it. This game will get run into the ground for a little self-gratification and sense of entitlement.
Your signature, sir, is all that needs to be said. Eve forums official anthem:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pudOFG5X6uA |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1088
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 04:07:00 -
[40] - Quote
Crunchie Attuxors wrote:It is simple economics. Null and empire have a symbiosis, and a tension, and that is a key motor of the economy. You stop that, the economy dies, or becomes the barter/wage slavery of null, were the measure of success is a plex a month, and you get all your stuff giving to you by the indies of your alliance for zero isk. Given the "indies" seem to mostly advertise their capitals and supercapitals, I wouldn't worry about getting them for zero isk. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |

Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
927
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 04:16:00 -
[41] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Right now attempt to enter null-sec for a carebear seems like 100% risk to lose ships and implants. So
1) make insurance for implants - or jump clones available every 3 hours + lower cost of clones;
2) make whole ship insurable - including modules and rigs;
3) make full insurance cost much less.
Next day there will be non-stop massacre. However present nullbears won't be happy watching their POSes being desintegrated by RvB casuals.
So in other words, if dying in EVE had no consequences whatsoever, you could zerg rush nullsec to death? Well uh, ok? How insightful of you to point that out.
Except... we have Insurance in nullsec too, you know. So you'd kill us, and we'd reship immediately because we keep entire fleets worth of ships on contract to reship in, and we'd just meatgrinder whatever pubbie "Highsec PVPer" tried to show up to try to ruin our day. |

RAP ACTION HERO
95
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 04:21:00 -
[42] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:ban npc corps nerf highsec station refining rate overhaul 0.0 industry in general add capital strip miner for rorquals that only works on low end ore
Wrong move. This will herd not only highseccers, but also small null and lowsec people into mega sov null NAP trains, where they will stay in entrenched safe areas, making majority of null space more deserted than ever.  Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:sabre906 wrote:Easy. Introduce Interdiction Nullifier module -> A lot more activity in majority of formerly dead systems, a lot less in entrenched ratting heavens. lack of bubbles made lowsec a bustling area, right? good plan bud Lowsec parts that actually offers reward, like FW areas, are bustling. Null space doesn't lack rewards, just access.
how about leave those rates in hisec as is but buff them for null (with proper upgrades) making upgrades more meaningful also stimulate null markets by allowing sov holders to set very low transaction costs and having them transaction fees as income for the alliance. nappers are gonna nap, aint no thing ccp can do bout it
and if you really want to be sneaky fly and risk a t3, no scrub nullifier modules. |

RAP ACTION HERO
95
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 04:22:00 -
[43] - Quote
also increase npc corp tax to like 40% |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1088
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 05:54:00 -
[44] - Quote
RAP ACTION HERO wrote:also increase npc corp tax to like 40% What about miners? Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |

Merovee
Gorthaur Legion Of Mordor
19
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 05:59:00 -
[45] - Quote
Change the contract system to allow Hi-sec players to move your stuff to and from null alliance areas.
Like a blue status to get there and back on a contract, and if you shoot them they keep the payout as well as the collateral. So no shooting blues.
Some other ideas to bring Hi-sec player into your Alliance area to do more of your boring work could also work. |

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
673
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 06:06:00 -
[46] - Quote
Make highsec less safe so the the player created security of sov nullsec is more competitive with the NPC security of highsec. |

Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
623
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 06:21:00 -
[47] - Quote
Adelphie wrote:sabre906 wrote: Null space doesn't lack rewards, just access.
I honestly think that this is a common misconception of nullsec. It's actually quite easy for anyone to get into with the use of the map and a scout. The problem is that once you get there, you can't really do a great deal unless you have somewhere to settle (e.g. station or POS), and the perceived risk is too great compared to other areas of the game for people to even attempt to get into null. There are already interdiction nullifiers on T3's, but that has served mainly the current inhabitants rather than encouraging a new wave of residents.
Don't know about that bro, our corp lives in null, have done for years, and we have no station or POS-access. We're even casual players and barely the 'elite fulltime players' people envision living in null. Our impressive kb claims 12 kills June, 15 May, 21 April etc (there's more not posted tho, hehe).
My point is; players are too scared to even try it. We just moved out and do our thing, don't give a **** about anyone else. No blue, we shoot people in the face if we feel like it, and play it casual. "can't really do a great deal" = If we want we shoot NPCers and roaming PvPers. Otherwise we might just shoot NPC's. There's plenty to do.
I think the real issue for roaming, smallscale PvP, is a combination of things: Jumpbridges (blobs can get to you instantly), blobs (be more than two pilots and everyone and their uncle will come and poke you with a stick), and how blobs are encouraged and so profitable (upgraded sov fortresses, espec combined with JBs).
Make beltratting and beltmining > missions and incursions, and remove the stupid sov upgrade fortress boosts that just blob up massive HQ's, and you will find that people start to spread out again. As for people wanting POS/Station access, that's only a mentality issue, nothing wrong with current game mechanics. I.e. blame players for that, and players would have to want to change to have it change.  shiptoastin' liek a baws |

Knight Cabbage
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 07:04:00 -
[48] - Quote
Assuming that you can make more people leave high for low/null after staging a campaign against "carebears" and a gank campaign again high sec miners is, well, slightly illusional. |

Adelphie
Paradox Collective Choke Point
48
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 07:05:00 -
[49] - Quote
I personally don't think moving stuff from highsec to null is the way to go. It's easy, lazy and rarely works as intended.
Have some imagination people! Would you rather expand the game to have more features, or just re-shuffle what's there already?
One suggestion I heard which I thought was pretty good was that of raidable moon mining POS's. Where it is possible for roaming gangs to attack a moon-mining pos and claim some of the minerals for themselves, whilst reducing the income of larger alliances.
|

Danfen Fenix
Council Of Internal War The Paganism Alliance
103
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 07:31:00 -
[50] - Quote
Just would like to touch upon a few things...
Adelphie wrote:
There are a few reasons that I can see for a reduction of traffic, mainly caused by a lack of migration of players into null:
- High barriers to entry for newer players/corps/alliances to move to null - Not enough of a carrot to entice players away from highsec - A lack of differentiated content in null vs. other areas of space. - Current alliances entrenched in their space. - Not enough reason for industrialists to be in null
1. What 'high barriers to entry' are there? Apart from getting/keeping out of the mindset that you "need so and so" or "need this and that" to get in...
2. Meh, A lot of it I suppose also comes down to different playstyles here.
3. This one...is true. Only 'standout' factor is the increase in ISK you can make. They should add certain properties etc to 0.0 systems, like WH have, for a start at least.
4. This isn't really a 'barrier'. Firstly, theres still areas on 0.0 unclaimed. Secondly, some 'claimed' systems are simply systems that alliances are holding for any renters who may come along. Thirdly, just because the systems are taken, doesn't mean they'll all prohibit you from living there. Providence/CVA may be a good place to start (lol )
5. Eh, this is true enough. They 'should' focus more of Industry around 0.0 really...needs a nice balance though in a way to 'entice' players to 0.0, rather than 'force' them to. |

Yolanta Geezenstack
GWA Corp Unified Church of the Unobligated
12
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 07:46:00 -
[51] - Quote
Newbie point of view:
After learning the basics in Highsec I joined a player corp that lives in low-sec and the edge of low-sec.
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:lack of bubbles made lowsec a bustling area, right?
Can't agree with your irony here - not sure when a system is considered being "busy" and yeah, the low-sec systems I usually visit aren't full like Hek with its 200 or so people, but they are active enough for me, at least so active that I always have to be on the lookout (sometimes not good enough...), I recognized a war going on between two quiet active low-sec companies, traders are coming through that could be a target once I manage to build this 30 Rifters (plan from my starting days, when I thought being independent was a good idea).
Right now I can't imagine going into Nullsec, though, not even to roam there. A couple of people I know tried to do a roam there and got killed in this bubble-thing (which I didn't really understood yet) at the first gate-camp they met. Didn't really sound like I will try this in the near future. 
Adelphie wrote:From a purely selfish point of view I would like to see this trend reverse and see null becoming as vibrant as it has been in days gone by so I've got stuff to shoot.
Xython wrote:Except... we have Insurance in nullsec too, you know. So you'd kill us, and we'd reship immediately because we keep entire fleets worth of ships on contract to reship in, and we'd just meatgrinder whatever pubbie "Highsec PVPer" tried to show up to try to ruin our day.
Maybe the problem is that the game has much developed since the "good ol' days" - people now are in highly organized corporations, that have "entire fleets worth of ships on contract" and will "meatgrind" (= kill them with overwhelming numbers?) every single or small roaming gang that dares to enter their systems. Maybe that kind of organization wasn't there in the "good ol' days" and even as a single or small group PVPer you could kill successfully targets in Nullsec. But you can't reverse that - it's an accomplishment that people managed to get this grade of organization.
Misanth's post arouse my interest, though - maybe it IS still possible to survive even as a small roaming gang in Nullsec, that would contradict my impression. I wonder how you manage to do that, though - where do you get your ships and stuff, for instance? And is it really more fun to do that in Nullsec as it would be in Lowsec - where you might have more targets and less organization?
(As said, my "knowledge" about Nullsec is from forum only and my first-hand "knowledge" of Lowsec is 2 weeks )
TDLR: Newbie thinks Lowsec is alive and fun to be in but can't imagine ever going into Nullsec. |

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1355
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 08:26:00 -
[52] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:nuke hisec incursions, make it exclusive to lowsec
done, more people leave hisec, even if it's just daytrips to lowsec
Won't happen. Not even if hell froze to Anctartica levels. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |

Lord Zim
848
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 08:29:00 -
[53] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:ban npc corps nerf highsec station refining rate overhaul 0.0 industry in general add capital strip miner for rorquals that only works on low end ore
Do this, and make it much easier to take over someone's undefended space. Voila, vibrant, bustling nullsec. |

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1355
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 08:36:00 -
[54] - Quote
I have this great news for you: null sec is the apex of player generated, emergent content.
Make your player generated content less sh!tty and maybe you'll convince someone to go there.
As long as we get forum poasters belating and bashing on anyone who don't conform to The One An Only Intended Way for the "free" sandbox everybody will just think null sec is full of douches and to steer well clear off it.
You know what? A year or 2 ago there was a guy who went to nullsec alone, established his little base and from there called newbies in a very friendly and humble way. Surprise, he got people to join him. Surprise, he asked kindly and was not a total asshat. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |

Lord Zim
848
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 08:53:00 -
[55] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:I have this great news for you: null sec is the apex of player generated, emergent content.
Make your player generated content less sh!tty and maybe you'll convince someone to go there. Let's see. We can't manufacture well enough to outperform probably even almost the shittiest hisec system, in deklein, we have to move ore to a special refinery station and then move it to a second system to actually manufacture things in it. We don't have anything which really enables us to mine stuff locally quicker, so it's much easier to just compress and import, or even just buy whole ships and import. And up until the last half year or a year, hisec has been more or less 100% safety (outside of hulkageddon) for miners, and with a few minor precautions by manufacturers, 100% safety for them as well.
Gee, I wonder why industrialists prefer to stay in hisec. The reason completely eludes me. |

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1355
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 09:06:00 -
[56] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:I have this great news for you: null sec is the apex of player generated, emergent content.
Make your player generated content less sh!tty and maybe you'll convince someone to go there. Let's see. We can't manufacture well enough to outperform probably even almost the shittiest hisec system, in deklein, we have to move ore to a special refinery station and then move it to a second system to actually manufacture things in it. We don't have anything which really enables us to mine stuff locally quicker, so it's much easier to just compress and import, or even just buy whole ships and import. And up until the last half year or a year, hisec has been more or less 100% safety (outside of hulkageddon) for miners, and with a few minor precautions by manufacturers, 100% safety for them as well. Gee, I wonder why industrialists prefer to stay in hisec. The reason completely eludes me.
Because you REALLY were after industrialists only, eh?
Oh wait I have been there multiple times in multiple corps and alliances (I have a good number of accounts) and the thing all had in common was a general despise for industrialists, seen as "alt worthy, and we already have our industry and research alts and no way we'll let you use the corp POS, else you steal".
As I said, people don't go there for the attitudes not (just) for the hardship.
Also, 0.0 is paradise for subsidized / reimbursed PvPers, they really find their thing (in my case it was small roam, for others it's blobs, each his taste). But if you are not one of them, there's really little in for you. I mean, even the few infrastructures that could be put up, aren't. So if you are not a ship PvPer you indeed find only the hardship and little of the rewards. Only stuff I found to be as good as hi sec was trading in NPC nulll. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |

Hestia Mar
Calmaretto
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 09:30:00 -
[57] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Frederick Sanger wrote:Null sec is pretty rad. You poors should give it a try. sorry only semi-pro players are allowed in null
'Semi-pro' may be the wrong phrase to use, but null is generally not for casual players.
I've been part of a alliance with a nullsec presence and it became a real pain to log-on and play for a couple of hours. By the time all of the comms channels were up and running, the intel chat was open, and the corp chat, and the alliance chat, and then requests for intel came in every 5 seconds, then a CTA was called and we sat in a station for two hours waitng for the FC's to decide whether to undock...and then it was time to log off for the night, and I'd actually done nothing!
Maybe if you're deep in null surrounded by blues it might be different, but each time I've tried living in null it wasn't like that.
Maybe null/lo/high should be done away with? Just have space, and Concord in every system but without the insta-kill ability...giving players the ability to go anywhere, but with a certain level of risk at all times?
Just saying. |

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1355
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 09:37:00 -
[58] - Quote
Hestia Mar wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Frederick Sanger wrote:Null sec is pretty rad. You poors should give it a try. sorry only semi-pro players are allowed in null 'Semi-pro' may be the wrong phrase to use, but null is generally not for casual players. I've been part of a alliance with a nullsec presence and it became a real pain to log-on and play for a couple of hours. By the time all of the comms channels were up and running, the intel chat was open, and the corp chat, and the alliance chat, and then requests for intel came in every 5 seconds, then a CTA was called and we sat in a station for two hours waitng for the FC's to decide whether to undock...and then it was time to log off for the night, and I'd actually done nothing!
Yeah I also had that. Log in, find a mail saying that today I had to join 4-5 different channels, then fire up IRC, then get in a fleet, then wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait more, get told that "can't care the less" POS had to be killed and that the best time was ofc at 2.30am so wait for 2 hours doing nothing then get there, yawn till the damn thing died, then try scoop some loot, then 25 jumps back.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |

Breezly Brewin
Vril Metaphysics Society
17
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 09:39:00 -
[59] - Quote
even though going solo is not advised in eve it is perfectly doable in hisec and thus hisec is appealing to what i believe is a vast majority of hisec players. i know i'm missing out on the social aspect that eve is supposed to be about, but i like to be on my own schedule, play when i want to play and do what i want to do. i don't want to feel obligated to skill this or that or fly this ship or "be here at this time so we can blow those guys up" or "why aren't you defending this? drop what you are doing and come help!" my vision of null may very well be just a hisec players vision of what nullsec is, but is probably a vision shared amongst most of the hisec community, valid or not.
clearly i don't really have experience in null, but here is another point, - i have always said to myself i will go to null/join null corp when i've *had more experience* i'm sure you understand the paradox of logic here... i think a lot of hi sec players also feel this way as well.
sorry for WoW reference. in WoW the 1-10 zones stopped giving experience at lvl 14 or so, in eve you can stay in the 1-10 zone FOREVER...
my solution? make mining far less lucrative in hisec, but make the change g r a d u a l. start taking out mission agents, start replacing many hi sec systems with low sec ones. start making the remaining hisec systems STRICTLY for new players perhaps make the belts and agents only accessable to < 3 months old characters... we shouldn't "live" in hisec - and this is coming from a hisec player.... i would adapt if i had to |

Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1068
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 09:44:00 -
[60] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:nuke hisec incursions, make it exclusive to lowsec
done, more people leave hisec, even if it's just daytrips to lowsec Won't happen. Not even if hell froze to Anctartica levels.
so you're saying that hisec incursion runners are irrationally risk averse eh |
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