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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1289
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:29:00 -
[151] - Quote
Oisin Sandovar wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: Of course there is, but often there's a lot of ways to make more money in other areas with less effort. Since things called "alts" exist, 0.0 players will make money with their PvE character elsewhere and fight with their PvP character in 0.0. This phenomena irritates roaming gankers to no end who then complain about how 'finding ratters and carebears in 0.0 is too hard", when in reality they just don't exist.
So the real reason is the that hard core null sec PvPers can't break their addiction to high sec. Makes sense for their calls to nerf it. EVE is a cutthroat game where no advantage can be left ignored. This is why obvious advantages like NPC corps and highsec manufacturing supremacy need to eliminated because they degrade the experience for everyone hth |
Ituhata Saken
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
322
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:30:00 -
[152] - Quote
Man, if I could find a way to get out to null somewhere in some backwater system and not have to socialize with people I'd love blasting rats in the face while basking in the beauty of a desolate, empty space....set the scene by pointing my ship towards the sun.
I wonder if I could somehow get a cloaked ratting ship and some cans out somewhere and live of of that? Bleh, how would I fit my stuff? So close... |
Rer Eirikr
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
90
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:31:00 -
[153] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:EVE is a cutthroat game where no advantage can be left ignored. This is why obvious advantages like NPC corps and highsec manufacturing supremacy need to eliminated because they degrade the experience for everyone hth
Or we could just propose JF nerfs again and all become hermits with our own little markets. |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow NightSong Directorate
750
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:31:00 -
[154] - Quote
Rer Eirikr wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:EVE is a cutthroat game where no advantage can be left ignored. This is why obvious advantages like NPC corps and highsec manufacturing supremacy need to eliminated because they degrade the experience for everyone hth Or we could just propose JF nerfs again and all become hermits with our own little markets.
Please CCP, kill jump logistics and fix your game overnight. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1070
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 14:32:00 -
[155] - Quote
Ituhata Saken wrote:Man, if I could find a way to get out to null somewhere in some backwater system and not have to socialize with people I'd love blasting rats in the face while basking in the beauty of a desolate, empty space....set the scene by pointing my ship towards the sun.
I wonder if I could somehow get a cloaked ratting ship and some cans out somewhere and live of of that? Bleh, how would I fit my stuff?
live out of a cloaked carrier eh |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow NightSong Directorate
750
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 14:32:00 -
[156] - Quote
Ituhata Saken wrote:Man, if I could find a way to get out to null somewhere in some backwater system and not have to socialize with people I'd love blasting rats in the face while basking in the beauty of a desolate, empty space....set the scene by pointing my ship towards the sun.
I wonder if I could somehow get a cloaked ratting ship and some cans out somewhere and live of of that? Bleh, how would I fit my stuff?
Covops interidiction nullified tengu + Outer ring.
Go crazy mate.
EDIT: Or pay 150m isk for Black Frog to jump your stuff to an NPC nullsec station of your choice direct from Jita. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
4
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:33:00 -
[157] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: So the real reason is the that hard core null sec PvPers can't break their addiction to high sec. Makes sense for their calls to nerf it.
EVE is a cutthroat game where no advantage can be left ignored. This is why obvious advantages like NPC corps and highsec manufacturing supremacy need to eliminated because they degrade the experience for everyone hth[/quote] Then Eve wouldn't be a sandbox. There is a choice to forgo any part of the sandbox if you so choose, but it's not chosen. So then people decide that it should be removed entirely because they can't garner the will to not do something. LOL! |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1070
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 14:33:00 -
[158] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Rer Eirikr wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:EVE is a cutthroat game where no advantage can be left ignored. This is why obvious advantages like NPC corps and highsec manufacturing supremacy need to eliminated because they degrade the experience for everyone hth Or we could just propose JF nerfs again and all become hermits with our own little markets. Please CCP, kill jump logistics and fix your game overnight.
before JFs people used carriers to cart stuff from empire
hint: nerfing JFs won't fix anything eh |
Lord Zim
849
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:34:00 -
[159] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Please CCP, kill jump logistics and fix your game overnight. Please, CCP, kill jump logistics and stop people from having massive 1000+ fights because |
Rer Eirikr
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
90
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:35:00 -
[160] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:before JFs people used carriers to cart stuff from empire
hint: nerfing JFs won't fix anything
Dude, sarcasm.
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Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
4
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:35:00 -
[161] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Please CCP, kill jump logistics and fix your game overnight. Please, CCP, kill jump logistics and stop people from having massive 1000+ fights because Please CCP, just make Alliance owned areas in null sec be just like high sec; but remove high sec. thanks!
TBH - that's my take on this.
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Rer Eirikr
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
91
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:36:00 -
[162] - Quote
Oisin Sandovar wrote:Lord Zim wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Please CCP, kill jump logistics and fix your game overnight. Please, CCP, kill jump logistics and stop people from having massive 1000+ fights because Please CCP, just make Alliance owned areas in null sec be just like high sec; but remove high sec. thanks! TBH - that's my take on this.
... Where are you getting that? |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1290
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 14:36:00 -
[163] - Quote
Oisin Sandovar wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: EVE is a cutthroat game where no advantage can be left ignored. This is why obvious advantages like NPC corps and highsec manufacturing supremacy need to eliminated because they degrade the experience for everyone hth
Then Eve wouldn't be a sandbox. There is a choice to forgo any part of the sandbox if you so choose, but it's not chosen. So then people decide that it should be removed entirely because they can't garner the will to not do something. LOL! lol @ this "Sandbox means 'PVP and wardecs are optional" ' idea
hey Oisin show me where the checkbox is that excludes me from being suicide ganked. because if it isn't there that means EVE isn't and was never a sandbox in the first place, right? |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow NightSong Directorate
750
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 14:37:00 -
[164] - Quote
Killing jump logistics includes nerfin carriers. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Lord Zim
849
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 14:37:00 -
[165] - Quote
Rer Eirikr wrote:Oisin Sandovar wrote:Lord Zim wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Please CCP, kill jump logistics and fix your game overnight. Please, CCP, kill jump logistics and stop people from having massive 1000+ fights because Please CCP, just make Alliance owned areas in null sec be just like high sec; but remove high sec. thanks! TBH - that's my take on this. ... Where are you getting that? He's good at strawmen. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1073
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 14:39:00 -
[166] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Killing jump logistics includes nerfin carriers.
it also includes revamping 0.0 industry beyond all hell because holy **** nobody is going to homesource the minerals for, say, an outpost or a titan in their own space, much less build anything in 0.0 with the horrible situation we have w/r/t manufacturing slots eh |
Lord Zim
849
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 14:41:00 -
[167] - Quote
Oisin Sandovar wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: EVE is a cutthroat game where no advantage can be left ignored. This is why obvious advantages like NPC corps and highsec manufacturing supremacy need to eliminated because they degrade the experience for everyone hth
Then Eve wouldn't be a sandbox. There is a choice to forgo any part of the sandbox if you so choose, but it's not chosen. So then people decide that it should be removed entirely because they can't garner the will to not do something. LOL! You do realize that by "hisec manufacturing supremacy needs to be eliminated", he didn't mean "kill all hisec manufacturing", but "make hisec manufacturing less awesome than nullsec".
I'll say again, deklein has less manufacturing capabilities than a lot of solar systems in hisec. |
Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
19
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:42:00 -
[168] - Quote
Oisin Sandovar wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: Of course there is, but often there's a lot of ways to make more money in other areas with less effort. Since things called "alts" exist, 0.0 players will make money with their PvE character elsewhere and fight with their PvP character in 0.0. This phenomena irritates roaming gankers to no end who then complain about how 'finding ratters and carebears in 0.0 is too hard", when in reality they just don't exist.
So the real reason is the that hard core null sec PvPers can't break their addiction to high sec. Makes sense for their calls to nerf it. LOL, null bears finally admited they're also hs bears. Awesome. |
Rer Eirikr
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
91
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:42:00 -
[169] - Quote
Let's try this again.
Most NullSec pilots don't want to nerf High Sec into oblivion. What we want are Industrialists/Miners/Ratters/etc. to be incentivized, (either through carrot, stick, or a combination of both) to come live and stay in Null Sec.
I bolded the important part there. Null Sec Empires should be NULL-SEC based Empires, with large amounts of industry, ISK generation, group activities, etc. taking place. The idea behind this is that it promotes the long talked about "farms and fields" idea, giving small and large groups a like new targets to seek out and attempt to destroy. Thus we get more pew pew!
Industrialists get more options/profit-margins in Null Sec. Win Miners get high end ores that will likely be bought straight by their Alliance or Industrialists in the area. Win PvP Happens |
Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
4
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:42:00 -
[170] - Quote
Rer Eirikr wrote:Oisin Sandovar wrote:Lord Zim wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Please CCP, kill jump logistics and fix your game overnight. Please, CCP, kill jump logistics and stop people from having massive 1000+ fights because Please CCP, just make Alliance owned areas in null sec be just like high sec; but remove high sec. thanks! TBH - that's my take on this. ... Where are you getting that?
This is the starting point.
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: EVE is a cutthroat game where no advantage can be left ignored. This is why obvious advantages like NPC corps and highsec manufacturing supremacy need to eliminated because they degrade the experience for everyone hth
And then followed up by jump logistics posts, and other parts of this thread.
It basically boils down to people don't feel safe enough in null sec to make their ISK. |
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Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
4
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:44:00 -
[171] - Quote
Rer Eirikr wrote:Let's try this again.
Most NullSec pilots don't want to nerf High Sec into oblivion. What we want are Industrialists/Miners/Ratters/etc. to be incentivized, (either through carrot, stick, or a combination of both) to come live and stay in Null Sec.
I bolded the important part there. Null Sec Empires should be NULL-SEC based Empires, with large amounts of industry, ISK generation, group activities, etc. taking place. The idea behind this is that it promotes the long talked about "farms and fields" idea, giving small and large groups a like new targets to seek out and attempt to destroy. Thus we get more pew pew!
Industrialists get more options/profit-margins in Null Sec. Win Miners get high end ores that will likely be bought straight by their Alliance or Industrialists in the area. Win PvP Happens Sounds good to me. It seems like there are some issues that are preventing this. What are those issues? |
Lord Zim
849
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 14:45:00 -
[172] - Quote
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:Oisin Sandovar wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: Of course there is, but often there's a lot of ways to make more money in other areas with less effort. Since things called "alts" exist, 0.0 players will make money with their PvE character elsewhere and fight with their PvP character in 0.0. This phenomena irritates roaming gankers to no end who then complain about how 'finding ratters and carebears in 0.0 is too hard", when in reality they just don't exist.
So the real reason is the that hard core null sec PvPers can't break their addiction to high sec. Makes sense for their calls to nerf it. LOL, null bears finally admited they're also hs bears. Awesome. Uh. "Finally" implies we've said we're anything but.
I mean, there's probably tons of "hurr we're elite PVPers durr" idiots abound, but to actually create an empire in nullsec, you kind of has to be infested with bears. You just can't be so infested with bears you can't defend yourself. |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow NightSong Directorate
750
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 14:45:00 -
[173] - Quote
Oisin Sandovar wrote:
It basically boils down to people don't feel safe enough in null sec to make their ISK.
Hi, genius.
I live in null and lo. I do not get income from hi sec. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Lord Zim
849
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 14:47:00 -
[174] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Oisin Sandovar wrote:
It basically boils down to people don't feel safe enough in null sec to make their ISK.
Hi, genius. I live in null and lo. I do not get income from hi sec. So what you're saying is, let's remove hisec then. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3540
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 14:47:00 -
[175] - Quote
Oisin Sandovar wrote: Sounds good to me. It seems like there are some issues that are preventing this. What are those issues?
they've been mentioned ad nauseum but here goes:
lack of factory slots lack of refinery/factories lack of a source of lowends lack of viable compression lack of increased profitability for building in nullsec to counteract the disadvantages of it lack of any ability to do serious t2 manufacturing since moongoo is regional and you must go to jita to get everything you need ergo just do it next to jita
etc etc etc |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
1291
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 14:49:00 -
[176] - Quote
Oisin Sandovar wrote: It basically boils down to people don't feel safe enough in null sec to make their ISK.
It's not a matter of safety, it's a matter of being at a competitive disadvantage. Mining low-grade ore, building ships and modules in 0.0 puts you in direct competition with people who enjoy perma-CONCORD protection, while providing no commensurate advantages or incentives for doing so. There is also the disadvantage that 0.0 industrial capacity cannot be upgraded to performance parity with highsec infrastructure. Refineries aren't as efficient, entire regions have less manufacturing slots then single highsec systems. It is simply uneconomical to do these things outside of highsec, nothing to do with 'risk aversion' other then you'll be leagues behind your 0.0 opponents resource-wise if you simply not do these things. |
Rer Eirikr
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
91
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 14:51:00 -
[177] - Quote
Oisin Sandovar wrote:Sounds good to me. It seems like there are some issues that are preventing this. What are those issues?
Alright, now bear with me for a second, because again I'm not calling for massive nerfs to High Sec here.
High Sec Industry is just incredibly more convenient and large-scale than Null Sec, so there's almost no point to being an Industrialist in Null unless if you're buying crap in Jita, JFing it down, and reselling at higher margins.
That's not what we're looking for here because it doesn't follow that "Farms and Fields" idea I mentioned earlier. Buffing Null Sec Industry with ideas like Ring Mining (mentioned at FanFest), more efficient (or readily available) manufacturing slots and industrial bonuses, and the ability to actually protect miners (I think the proposed eHP changes might just play a factor into this) would go a long way to promoting this idea of a sovereign Null Sec Empire.
Then, we need to change the scary voo-doo image surrounding Null and show how it really can be beneficial for High Sec players and Industrialists alike to give it a shot. However, if the incentives aren't there, they just won't come, because High Sec is just so damn convenient in comparison. |
Marconus Orion
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
93
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 14:53:00 -
[178] - Quote
Can't find targets? Reset some blues. No one wants to move to null to be your punching bag? Reset some blues. Tired of traveling seven regions to find targets? Reset some blues.
Reset some blues. |
Mirime Nolwe
Mantra of Pain
47
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:54:00 -
[179] - Quote
0.0 dont have anything special to fight for, its a PVE festival. In my opinion CCP need to make some "resources" (moongoo, whatever) "random", and once they deplete (2/3 months) they should spawn in other systems, that way, the alliances will have more reasons to fight for space.
In the current state i dont see why they should lose time with 0.0 warfare. |
Rer Eirikr
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
91
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:54:00 -
[180] - Quote
Marconus Orion wrote:Can't find targets? Reset some blues. No one wants to move to null to be your punching bag? Reset some blues. Tired of traveling seven regions to find targets? Reset some blues.
Reset some blues.
Its fun in the short term but it really doesn't solve the main issue at hand. Its a vacation at best and a distraction from the real problems at worst.
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