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Making nullsec vibrant again

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Lord Zim 849	Posted - 2012.06.20 14:55:00 - [181] - Quote Mirime Nolwe wrote: 0.0 dont have anything special to fight for, its a PVE festival. In my opinion CCP need to make some "resources" (moongoo, whatever) "random", and once they deplete (2/3 months) they should spawn in other systems, that way, the alliances will have more reasons to fight for space. In the current state i dont see why we should lose time with 0.0 warfare. Have you ever scanned a whole region for moons? Even once?
Weaselior GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3540	Posted - 2012.06.20 14:56:00 - [182] - Quote Even if you were completely, 100% safe in 0.0 you still wouldn't produce there. Industry in 0.0 just isn't really viable because it's inferior in every way to doing it in highsec. The only real industry that exists is supercap building (only possible in sov 0.0) and moon reactions (which have a direct subsidy in the form of sov fuel bonuses). Everything else is just newbies screwing around doing some low-level industry.
Niena Nuamzzar Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 19	Posted - 2012.06.20 14:56:00 - [183] - Quote Lord Zim wrote: ....but to actually create an empire in nullsec, you kind of has to be infested with bears. Sure but then stop trying to nerf hs so badly. Keep your null bears in nullsec, along with their greedy alts and leave our hs/us carebears alone.
Weaselior GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3540	Posted - 2012.06.20 14:56:00 - [184] - Quote Mirime Nolwe wrote: 0.0 dont have anything special to fight for, its a PVE festival. In my opinion CCP need to make some "resources" (moongoo, whatever) "random", and once they deplete (2/3 months) they should spawn in other systems, that way, the alliances will have more reasons to fight for space. In the current state i dont see why we should lose time with 0.0 warfare. please don't weigh in on 0.0 incentives for fighting when you live in empire
Rer Eirikr SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 91	Posted - 2012.06.20 14:57:00 - [185] - Quote Niena Nuamzzar wrote: Lord Zim wrote: ....but to actually create an empire in nullsec, you kind of has to be infested with bears. Sure but then stop trying to nerf hs so badly. Keep your null bears in nullsec, along with their greedy alts and leave our hs/us carebears alone. THEY WON'T COME BECAUSE NULL SEC INDUSTRY IS A JOKE, CAN WE MAKE THIS ANY MORE CLEAR.
Richard Desturned GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1073	Posted - 2012.06.20 14:57:00 - [186] - Quote Marconus Orion wrote: Can't find targets? Reset some blues. No one wants to move to null to be your punching bag? Reset some blues. Tired of traveling seven regions to find targets? Reset some blues. Reset some blues. take it from marlona sky people, he has experience in successful 0.0 alliances like Atlas eh
Lord Zim 849	Posted - 2012.06.20 14:58:00 - [187] - Quote Rer Eirikr wrote: Niena Nuamzzar wrote: Lord Zim wrote: ....but to actually create an empire in nullsec, you kind of has to be infested with bears. Sure but then stop trying to nerf hs so badly. Keep your null bears in nullsec, along with their greedy alts and leave our hs/us carebears alone. THEY WON'T COME BECAUSE NULL SEC INDUSTRY IS A JOKE, CAN WE MAKE THIS ANY MORE CLEAR. I think maybe you need to use figlet.
Weaselior GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3540	Posted - 2012.06.20 14:58:00 - [188] - Quote Niena Nuamzzar wrote: Lord Zim wrote: ....but to actually create an empire in nullsec, you kind of has to be infested with bears. Sure but then stop trying to nerf hs so badly. Keep your null bears in nullsec, along with their greedy alts and leave our hs/us carebears alone. Highseccers will always deserve a good flogging and it will always be delightful to give it to them.
Oisin Sandovar Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises 4	Posted - 2012.06.20 14:58:00 - [189] - Quote Weaselior wrote: Oisin Sandovar wrote: Sounds good to me. It seems like there are some issues that are preventing this. What are those issues? they've been mentioned ad nauseum but here goes: lack of factory slots lack of refinery/factories lack of a source of lowends lack of viable compression lack of increased profitability for building in nullsec to counteract the disadvantages of it lack of any ability to do serious t2 manufacturing since moongoo is regional and you must go to jita to get everything you need ergo just do it next to jita etc etc etc Excellent! These are ideas I can support! I also figured they've been mentioned before, I'm just not really sure why we continue to have these threads.
Lord Zim 849	Posted - 2012.06.20 14:58:00 - [190] - Quote Richard Desturned wrote: Marconus Orion wrote: Can't find targets? Reset some blues. No one wants to move to null to be your punching bag? Reset some blues. Tired of traveling seven regions to find targets? Reset some blues. Reset some blues. take it from marlona sky people, he has experience in successful 0.0 alliances like Atlas And NCdot.

Lord Zim 849	Posted - 2012.06.20 14:59:00 - [191] - Quote Niena Nuamzzar wrote: Lord Zim wrote: ....but to actually create an empire in nullsec, you kind of has to be infested with bears. Sure but then stop trying to nerf hs so badly. Keep your null bears in nullsec, along with their greedy alts and leave our hs/us carebears alone. Make us.
Ohanka Aggressive Narcissists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 116	Posted - 2012.06.20 15:00:00 - [192] - Quote Weaselior wrote: Oisin Sandovar wrote: Sounds good to me. It seems like there are some issues that are preventing this. What are those issues? they've been mentioned ad nauseum but here goes: lack of factory slots lack of refinery/factories lack of a source of lowends lack of viable compression lack of increased profitability for building in nullsec to counteract the disadvantages of it lack of any ability to do serious t2 manufacturing since moongoo is regional and you must go to jita to get everything you need ergo just do it next to jita etc etc etc This. 1000 times this. Nullsec Corps and Alliances have severe difficulty getting any meaningful Industry going. Allow Nullsec Alliances to build more than one station in a system, and all those systems to provide the facilities they do now, just better.
Rer Eirikr SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT 91	Posted - 2012.06.20 15:00:00 - [193] - Quote Oisin Sandovar wrote: Weaselior wrote: Oisin Sandovar wrote: Sounds good to me. It seems like there are some issues that are preventing this. What are those issues? they've been mentioned ad nauseum but here goes: lack of factory slots lack of refinery/factories lack of a source of lowends lack of viable compression lack of increased profitability for building in nullsec to counteract the disadvantages of it lack of any ability to do serious t2 manufacturing since moongoo is regional and you must go to jita to get everything you need ergo just do it next to jita etc etc etc Excellent! These are ideas I can support! I also figured they've been mentioned before, I'm just not really sure why we continue to have these threads. Because we all secretly just wanna fly our Hulks in Null Sec bro
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1089	Posted - 2012.06.20 15:00:00 - [194] - Quote Marconus Orion wrote: Can't find targets? Reset some blues. No one wants to move to null to be your punching bag? Reset some blues. Tired of traveling seven regions to find targets? Reset some blues. Reset some blues. We have NC. and IRC, no problems :) Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm
eddie valvetino Snuff Box 4	Posted - 2012.06.20 15:01:00 - [195] - Quote sabre906 wrote: Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: ban npc corps nerf highsec station refining rate overhaul 0.0 industry in general add capital strip miner for rorquals that only works on low end ore Wrong move. This will herd not only highseccers, but also small null and lowsec people into mega sov null NAP trains, where they will stay in entrenched safe areas, making majority of null space more deserted than ever. Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: sabre906 wrote: Easy. Introduce Interdiction Nullifier module -> A lot more activity in majority of formerly dead systems, a lot less in entrenched ratting heavens. lack of bubbles made lowsec a bustling area, right? good plan bud Lowsec parts that actually offers reward, like FW areas, are bustling. Null space doesn't lack rewards, just access. true story
Mirime Nolwe Mantra of Pain 47	Posted - 2012.06.20 15:03:00 - [196] - Quote Weaselior wrote: Mirime Nolwe wrote: 0.0 dont have anything special to fight for, its a PVE festival. In my opinion CCP need to make some "resources" (moongoo, whatever) "random", and once they deplete (2/3 months) they should spawn in other systems, that way, the alliances will have more reasons to fight for space. In the current state i dont see why we should lose time with 0.0 warfare. please don't weigh in on 0.0 incentives for fighting when you live in empire Dont take conclusions when EVE is a game of multiple accounts :) Anyhow, please elaborate instead of making empty arguments. Fact, 0.0 has never been so stationary like last year. It's dead.
Weaselior GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3540	Posted - 2012.06.20 15:04:00 - [197] - Quote I mean put it this way I have seriously, seriously considered spending 15 billion isk getting a 10 slot factory/40% refinery station. In addition to the 30b that outpost cost someone, that's 45b to have a single system have 1/50th the slots of Perimiter, at ~45 jumps farther away from Jita. And that would be the absolute pinnacle of nullsec industry, unless i spent an additional 15b or so to get it to a 17 slot factory/40% refinery.
Rer Eirikr SniggWaffe 91	Posted - 2012.06.20 15:06:00 - [198] - Quote ^ This, please try to understand where we're coming from now when we say Null Sec Industry is laughably bad. Mirime Nolwe wrote: Dont take conclusions when EVE is a game of multiple accounts :) Anyhow, please elaborate instead of making empty arguments. Fact, 0.0 has never been so stationary like last year. It's dead. Stagnant =/= Dead. Null Sec Empires have very little reason to invade one another's areas of space. Take OTEC for example, even if it is just a semi-tongue in cheek phrase, the reality is that most Tech-based empires just leave one another alone, because they're already making ISK hand over fist. (NOTE: This is separate from my earlier posts about farms and fields, Moons are not a good way of promoting small scale PvP and Null Sec Industry because they are hard to fight over without massive numbers and do not benefit Industrialists in any way)
Nicolo da'Vicenza Divine Power. Cascade Imminent 1291	Posted - 2012.06.20 15:07:00 - [199] - Quote Mirime Nolwe wrote: Fact, 0.0 has never been so stationary like last year. It's dead. You mean that year when the NC and the DRF died? A+++ fact source would use again
Kieron VonDeux 37	Posted - 2012.06.20 15:07:00 - [200] - Quote Remove all jump drives from game and POS Jump Bridges as well. Major alliances will lose most of their power projection beyond their primary regeion. Logistic trains will have to use gates again. Locals will have to use gates as well, instead of their nice safe POS Bridges. Roamers won't get hotdropped anymore or blocked in due to POS Bridges. Bring back the NanoPhoon,.... And everyone will be happy again, Right?

Niena Nuamzzar Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 19	Posted - 2012.06.20 15:08:00 - [201] - Quote Rer Eirikr wrote: Niena Nuamzzar wrote: Lord Zim wrote: ....but to actually create an empire in nullsec, you kind of has to be infested with bears. Sure but then stop trying to nerf hs so badly. Keep your null bears in nullsec, along with their greedy alts and leave our hs/us carebears alone. THEY WON'T COME BECAUSE NULL SEC INDUSTRY IS A JOKE, CAN WE MAKE THIS ANY MORE CLEAR. I know but that is your nullsec problem, we carebears just DON'T CARE. Move your nullbears through hs all you want but stop trying to change things in other PEOPLE'S BACKYARD.
Weaselior GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3541	Posted - 2012.06.20 15:09:00 - [202] - Quote Mirime Nolwe wrote: Dont take conclusions when EVE is a game of multiple accounts :) Anyhow, please elaborate instead of making empty arguments. Fact, 0.0 has never been so stationary like last year. It's dead. 0.0 is largely stationary because nobody's going to go to war over tech when it's being nerfed on such a short horizon, and our favorite punching bag - band of brothers - finally got killed enough to give up the ghost, and every non-tech region is worthless tech is a bad conflict driver because it's so regional and needs to be nerfed back to having an r64 as a choke, which will give much better incentives to fight
Oisin Sandovar Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises 4	Posted - 2012.06.20 15:11:00 - [203] - Quote Ohanka wrote: This. 1000 times this. Nullsec Corps and Alliances have severe difficulty getting any meaningful Industry going. Allow Nullsec Alliances to build more than one station in a system, and all those systems to provide the facilities they do now, just better. Wow! I didn't realize that you could only build one station in a system! I can understand the facilities may not be as up to par as high sec, at least initially, but I would think it should be possible to build/upgrade them to have them on par, if not better than high sec. This seems like a big problem. Any reason for this type of limitation?
Richard Desturned GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1073	Posted - 2012.06.20 15:12:00 - [204] - Quote Mirime Nolwe wrote: Fact, 0.0 has never been so stationary like last year. It's dead. Fact: the last year has seen the destruction of the largest nullsec bloc in EVE history (the NC), the invasion of the Clusterfuck Coalition's space by Triv0ke and PL, a huge southern campaign, the eviction of Red Alliance, XIX and their allies from the drone regions, the fall of Branch and Tenal, and countless fights over tech moons. hurr 0.0 is dead eh
Rer Eirikr SniggWaffe 91	Posted - 2012.06.20 15:12:00 - [205] - Quote Niena Nuamzzar wrote: I know but that is your nullsec problem, we carebears just DON'T CARE. Move your nullbears through hs all you want but stop trying to change things in other PEOPLE'S BACKYARD. /facepalm, and here I thought we were making progress with the whole "even if we bring Null-Bears to Null Sec right now there's no point"
Rer Eirikr SniggWaffe 91	Posted - 2012.06.20 15:14:00 - [206] - Quote Oisin Sandovar wrote: Ohanka wrote: This. 1000 times this. Nullsec Corps and Alliances have severe difficulty getting any meaningful Industry going. Allow Nullsec Alliances to build more than one station in a system, and all those systems to provide the facilities they do now, just better. Wow! I didn't realize that you could only build one station in a system! I can understand the facilities may not be as up to par as high sec, at least initially, but I would think it should be possible to build/upgrade them to have them on par, if not better than high sec. This seems like a big problem. Any reason for this type of limitation? I can't tell if you're trolling or not, but if you aren't by god Jim, and I think he's got it! Welcome to the points we're trying to make!
Oisin Sandovar Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises 4	Posted - 2012.06.20 15:19:00 - [207] - Quote Rer Eirikr wrote: I can't tell if you're trolling or not, but if you aren't by god Jim, and I think he's got it! Welcome to the points we're trying to make! So not trolling. Trying very hard to understand, but this is the first time I've seen it stated in this fashion. So thank you! To me, this type of information sharing is so much better than all the trolling and hate that have gone on in previous threads. It's too bad that one has to wade through all of that to find this nugget of information. To me, it seems a no brainer that if you can build stations in null sec, then they should have the capability to be upgraded to at least high sec standards, if not better.
Weaselior GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3541	Posted - 2012.06.20 15:20:00 - [208] - Quote Oisin Sandovar wrote: Ohanka wrote: This. 1000 times this. Nullsec Corps and Alliances have severe difficulty getting any meaningful Industry going. Allow Nullsec Alliances to build more than one station in a system, and all those systems to provide the facilities they do now, just better. Wow! I didn't realize that you could only build one station in a system! I can understand the facilities may not be as up to par as high sec, at least initially, but I would think it should be possible to build/upgrade them to have them on par, if not better than high sec. This seems like a big problem. Any reason for this type of limitation? One outpost per system is apparently a technical limitation that was never fixed (this is also why 0.0 stations cannot have agents). The upgrades were designed a long time ago and most are hilariously bad. There are a handful of upgrades that allow you to do things better in null than highsec (e.g. a 60% time reduction on ME, for 10 slots of ME research) but at enormous cost. Factories cannot be upgraded to perfect refines (top out at 30%), refineries cannot be upgraded with significant slots (19 max, when I said 17 before I misremembered). Since you are limited in the amount of upgrades you install you cannot do some basic things (like get a refinery to 50% AND max out its factory slots). Caldari stations (research stations) are laughably bad compared to pos labs so they're rarely dropped. You pretty much drop one to help out your newbies researching frigate prints. Just for good measure, all stations besides Gallente, have hideously low numbers of offices (6 or less). This is so severely problematic we drop gallente outposts all the time, which are utterly useless as anything but a block of 20 offices.
Richard Desturned GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1073	Posted - 2012.06.20 15:21:00 - [209] - Quote Niena Nuamzzar wrote: I know but that is your nullsec problem, we carebears just DON'T CARE. Move your nullbears through hs all you want but stop trying to change things in other PEOPLE'S BACKYARD. Rumor has it that hisec and nullsec are part of the same game. eh
Weaselior GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3541	Posted - 2012.06.20 15:21:00 - [210] - Quote oh I forgot to mention you can't mission-run in conquerable nullsec in my list of disadvantages before.



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