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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 36 post(s) |
Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
199
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Posted - 2012.07.02 00:07:00 -
[361] - Quote
Che Biko wrote:Ok, some folks saw an exploitable condition about to be released, exploited for quite some time after release, manipulated an entire feature (FW), and as far as I can tell bragged about crashing the market for certain items.
People pointed out that this would be exploitable when it was proposed at fanfest. -RubyPorto
IB4TS |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
545
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Posted - 2012.07.02 00:36:00 -
[362] - Quote
Che Biko wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:[hi when I ban someone I can't tell you about it and you know that I hope this helps
I'm pretty sure nobody in the history of CCP has banned more people than I have including basically any alliance in the game I'm pretty sure line 1 is proven wrong by line 2, among other things. He can tell you that he has banned many people, he cannot tell you the details about those who he has banned.
The two lines are not mutually exclusive and neither proves the other wrong. I fought the law, and the law won. At least the law is merciful... |
Hrothgar Nilsson
Black Guards Black Core Alliance
25
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Posted - 2012.07.02 05:02:00 -
[363] - Quote
corestwo wrote:Inflation would come from new currency being injected into the game, which never happened during this whole thing - quite the opposite, since redeeming LP costs isk. We'd already taken large amounts of isk out of circulation and would have taken something like 2T more between Aryth & I alone had we kept it. LP is a currency. http://d.asset.soup.io/asset/1579/1917_fe03.gif |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
545
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Posted - 2012.07.02 05:40:00 -
[364] - Quote
Hrothgar Nilsson wrote:corestwo wrote:Inflation would come from new currency being injected into the game, which never happened during this whole thing - quite the opposite, since redeeming LP costs isk. We'd already taken large amounts of isk out of circulation and would have taken something like 2T more between Aryth & I alone had we kept it. LP is a currency.
Have a point there, Mr Pedant, but isk inflation is what everyone talking about inflation in Eve is concerned about. I fought the law, and the law won. At least the law is merciful... |
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.07.02 07:09:00 -
[365] - Quote
Che Biko wrote:I'm pretty sure line 1 is proven wrong by line 2, among other things.
Wow you're dense.
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David Cedarbridge
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
251
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Posted - 2012.07.02 07:26:00 -
[366] - Quote
Alikchi wrote:Vokanic wrote: in the words of goons.. you mad bro?
If someone in GoonWaffe actually unironically used that phrase we'd probably shame him out of the alliance.
Xython wrote:Veshta Yoshida wrote:Exploiting the snot out of something for TWO weeks and only officially reporting it when the noose tightens as bughunters/devs close in on the anomaly should at the very least be prolonged temporary bans as well as confiscation of all ill-gotten goods and an investigation into the effects of those five holier-than-though exploiters (LOL!) LP dumps into the FW sovereignty mechanic.
You mad Bro?? You sound like you could be mad.
Don't worry guys, I've got this one. |
Iris Dement
Griffin Capsuleers Ad-Astra
0
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Posted - 2012.07.02 14:55:00 -
[367] - Quote
Very disappointing response from CCP, not even really a slap on the wrist to people who blatantly cheat. Instead, highfives all around. Permanent bans would have been a better idea. Shouldn't the message to the playerbase be that using exploits will get you banned? Instead, it's that using exploits is totally cool and you may even be rewarded.
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Kayrl Bheskagor
Hedion University Amarr Empire
20
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Posted - 2012.07.02 17:13:00 -
[368] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Well Lord Zim was right, goons don't get banned for this kind of thing.
The post on the Dev blog "I wrote a blog on "Responsible Disclosures" a year or so ago. In that blog I mention that telling us about something after you've used the heck out of it isn't what we consider to be responsible. We do our best to be lenient in cases such as this but we want this to serve as a notice to the community that the proper time to alert us to the issue was before actually using the system."
It shows as such a good warning "Do what ever you want and we will just roll everything back to pretend it didn't happen." Yeah Good deterant that one.
I at least hope the other members of the 5 are going to shank the snitch. hi when I ban someone I can't tell you about it and you know that I hope this helps I'm pretty sure nobody in the history of CCP has banned more people than I have including basically any alliance in the game
Riiiiight. Of course you can't say who you've banned. If you DID name names, that would "only" show the entire player base that people that abuse the system actually ARE held accountable. That wouldn't do. We can't have CCP demonstrating that they are thinking about the entire player base here. Instead though, with ex goons working at CCP, and more and more game changes favouring big null sec alliances (like the war dec re-nerf), and then of course giving plex to exploiting null sec players, well, that shows ALL KINDS of accountability, doesn't it? |
David Cedarbridge
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
251
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Posted - 2012.07.02 17:33:00 -
[369] - Quote
Kayrl Bheskagor wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Well Lord Zim was right, goons don't get banned for this kind of thing.
The post on the Dev blog "I wrote a blog on "Responsible Disclosures" a year or so ago. In that blog I mention that telling us about something after you've used the heck out of it isn't what we consider to be responsible. We do our best to be lenient in cases such as this but we want this to serve as a notice to the community that the proper time to alert us to the issue was before actually using the system."
It shows as such a good warning "Do what ever you want and we will just roll everything back to pretend it didn't happen." Yeah Good deterant that one.
I at least hope the other members of the 5 are going to shank the snitch. hi when I ban someone I can't tell you about it and you know that I hope this helps I'm pretty sure nobody in the history of CCP has banned more people than I have including basically any alliance in the game Riiiiight. Of course you can't say who you've banned. If you DID name names, that would "only" show the entire player base that people that abuse the system actually ARE held accountable. That wouldn't do. We can't have CCP demonstrating that they are thinking about the entire player base here. Instead though, with ex goons working at CCP, and more and more game changes favouring big null sec alliances (like the war dec re-nerf), and then of course giving plex to exploiting null sec players, well, that shows ALL KINDS of accountability, doesn't it?
I was planning on making baked potatoes today, but I found that somebody had purchased all of the tin foil. Can I borrow yours? It seems you have a surplus. |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
546
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 17:44:00 -
[370] - Quote
Kayrl Bheskagor wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Frying Doom wrote:Well Lord Zim was right, goons don't get banned for this kind of thing.
The post on the Dev blog "I wrote a blog on "Responsible Disclosures" a year or so ago. In that blog I mention that telling us about something after you've used the heck out of it isn't what we consider to be responsible. We do our best to be lenient in cases such as this but we want this to serve as a notice to the community that the proper time to alert us to the issue was before actually using the system."
It shows as such a good warning "Do what ever you want and we will just roll everything back to pretend it didn't happen." Yeah Good deterant that one.
I at least hope the other members of the 5 are going to shank the snitch. hi when I ban someone I can't tell you about it and you know that I hope this helps I'm pretty sure nobody in the history of CCP has banned more people than I have including basically any alliance in the game Riiiiight. Of course you can't say who you've banned. If you DID name names, that would "only" show the entire player base that people that abuse the system actually ARE held accountable. That wouldn't do. We can't have CCP demonstrating that they are thinking about the entire player base here. Instead though, with ex goons working at CCP, and more and more game changes favouring big null sec alliances (like the war dec re-nerf), and then of course giving plex to exploiting null sec players, well, that shows ALL KINDS of accountability, doesn't it?
CCP has named names exactly twice in the history of the game that I can recall when they've taken punitive action, and in both cases it involved a member of the CSM where explanation was necessary anyway - Mittani with the fanfest fiasco, and dude who's name I can't remember anymore for insider trading...and I don't think he was even banned for it.
But hey man, keep raging against CCP for a policy that's been in place for approximately "forever". I fought the law, and the law won. At least the law is merciful... |
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Diametrix
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
9
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Posted - 2012.07.03 05:24:00 -
[371] - Quote
Aryth wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote: Yeah and what I'm trying to get at is that I didn't compare how we felt with handling this decision based on past decisions others might have made. We looked at the situation and did what we felt was the right thing for the game as a whole, so I'm not really prepared to discuss x vs. y because we didn't ever discuss it internally and these decisions aren't made solo.
Fair enough. I hope you're having a good long conversation about how to fix Forex markets to keep them from being manipulated. It would be spectacular to see CCP be the first Gaming company win the Nobel Prize for Economics. I pitched a possible solution. We spent days theorycrafting a fix that preserves the system without making it gameable to a degree you are profiting on the conversion. You might still profit on the market manip, but not the conversion itself. This might be an acceptable solution to CCP, who knows. I hope they don't gut it though.
Although I cannot do it on behalf of the whole EVE community and CCP, Aryth & Co., Thank you for using the metagame and your obvious interest in seeing how deep the sandbox can go to protect and improve the future of EVE Online. |
Udonor
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
18
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Posted - 2012.07.03 10:44:00 -
[372] - Quote
Well if you don't want market to be manipulated...
try only adding last sale price to market average when an item is mounted on a ship or otherwise put into use.
People are unlikely to waste their time mounting several hundred modules let alone hundreds of thousands. Time vs ISK.
Each item can just carry around its last sale price until that magic moment its put in use the first time after sale. Then its in use flag remains set until sold again. (Resets on repackaging would be very exploitable way of tracking retail use.)
As it is now market average mixes wholesale prices with retail. So last I knew you could just repaetedly buy and sell items between your alts or corp members (wholesale) to juice price up or down in market -- all items and ISK stay ing in friendly hands.
LOL in real world buy orders would be considered more like a separate futures market as until fillled the items might not exist. |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
366
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Posted - 2012.07.03 10:59:00 -
[373] - Quote
Xython wrote:Veshta Yoshida wrote:Exploiting the snot out of something for TWO weeks and only officially reporting it when the noose tightens as bughunters/devs close in on the anomaly should at the very least be prolonged temporary bans as well as confiscation of all ill-gotten goods and an investigation into the effects of those five holier-than-though exploiters (LOL!) LP dumps into the FW sovereignty mechanic.
You mad Bro?? You sound like you could be mad. Did BoB used to say the same thing to Goonswarm, when you guys accused CCP of favoritism towards BoB? Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
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Almiel
3
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Posted - 2012.07.03 16:24:00 -
[374] - Quote
In cases of exploit, I think the "Name and shame" system is a good one. I doubt most of the perpetrators would mind, in fact, I would bet they like the infamy. Meanwhile it allows the Eve player base to focus there anger or outrage and really, the consequences to the shamed players would be punishment enough i.e hate mails, convos, de-valuation of their character etc. |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
549
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 17:10:00 -
[375] - Quote
Almiel wrote:In cases of exploit, I think the "Name and shame" system is a good one. I doubt most of the perpetrators would mind, in fact, I would bet they like the infamy. Meanwhile it allows the Eve player base to focus there anger or outrage and really, the consequences to the shamed players would be punishment enough i.e hate mails, convos, de-valuation of their character etc. I have received zero hate mails or convos.
I feel neglected :( . |
Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
237
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Posted - 2012.07.03 17:35:00 -
[376] - Quote
corestwo wrote:Almiel wrote:In cases of exploit, I think the "Name and shame" system is a good one. I doubt most of the perpetrators would mind, in fact, I would bet they like the infamy. Meanwhile it allows the Eve player base to focus there anger or outrage and really, the consequences to the shamed players would be punishment enough i.e hate mails, convos, de-valuation of their character etc. I have received zero hate mails or convos. I feel neglected :(
Fixed. -RubyPorto
IB4TS |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
549
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 17:53:00 -
[377] - Quote
yay ^_____^ . |
Abulurd Boniface
Shadow State SpaceMonkey's Alliance
16
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Posted - 2012.07.03 17:55:00 -
[378] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Spc One wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote: To clarify, we'd like to see the system function as intended so we don't have to worry about it. Then don't release stupid expansions that weren't tested properly, like very bad UI and FW exploits. Do more testing and ask players to test stuff out first and tell their opinion about it, not just release expansion that is crap. This valuable feedback will be noted.
It can't really be all that much fun trying to stomp out this particular fire, can it
I wonder how that was listed on the job description sheet: "Interacting with the player community on a regular basis, defending the companies position and clarifying points of policy."
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Aemonchichi
Limited Access Guardian Society
32
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 19:03:00 -
[379] - Quote
ccp sreegs can u explain why ccp in this situation decided not to punish the exploiters ? |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
147
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 23:38:00 -
[380] - Quote
I think that what this really means is that if you are going to exploit a game system, you have to make it epic and then brag about it.
While i am not a fan of the goons in general, this is one of the more entertaining things ive seen on these forums in a while. For most of the past two months Ive been posting about various other issues within the game, and the concentrated effort on CCP's part to do nothing right.
Not only did I post about this potential gaming of the system on 5/9 (before it was released on tq) but i completely failed to fully envision the scope to which it should have been used.
Freighters? wow. Had i the alts and the time i would have been popping frigates, or even cruisers. but i didnt realize the mobilization that you (the goons) would apply to this.
But,
Sirs, I applaud you.
I dont like goons, and i probably never will, but if you are gonna do it, do it in style.
Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Ships to goo calc - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=107898 |
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Xython
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
990
|
Posted - 2012.07.04 01:48:00 -
[381] - Quote
Aemonchichi wrote:ccp sreegs can u explain why ccp in this situation decided not to punish the exploiters ?
Because it technically wasn't an exploit. If the Faction Five had limited themselves to 5 billion instead of 5 trillion ISK, they wouldn't have done anything and would have just adjusted the game mechanics quietly.
Or, more likely, CCP would have ignored the poorly designed mechanics and it would have been 5 Quadrillion ISK spread out across 12 months and 1000 players instead of 5 trillion across 5.
And, there's that nasty thing about how the "exploiters" warned CCP about this being a bad idea and then gave them full disclosure about what they had done afterwards, meaning that technically speaking, they were being the good guys here.
Which is why "the exploiters" were given PLEXes for their troubles.
Personally, I think CCP should have just converted the 5 trillion to PLEX and auto-applied it to the players' accounts rather than let them have the PLEX directly. Brilliant players should be rewarded, after all. |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
549
|
Posted - 2012.07.04 02:50:00 -
[382] - Quote
More correctly...
Quote:Because the players made efforts to inform us about the issue their accounts will remain in good standing.
. |
Sperno Thanato
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.07.04 06:06:00 -
[383] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote:Xython wrote:Veshta Yoshida wrote:Exploiting the snot out of something for TWO weeks and only officially reporting it when the noose tightens as bughunters/devs close in on the anomaly should at the very least be prolonged temporary bans as well as confiscation of all ill-gotten goods and an investigation into the effects of those five holier-than-though exploiters (LOL!) LP dumps into the FW sovereignty mechanic.
You mad Bro?? You sound like you could be mad. Did BoB used to say the same thing to Goonswarm, when you guys accused CCP of favoritism towards BoB?
Only all the time
Goons tbh are a little bit like the abused who from an entire society of role models choose to aspire to and immitate their abuser...
I think that's considered normal among shrinks but I can't remember liek the scientific terms and whatnot... |
Anoexia
Fr33 Banking and Trade
0
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Posted - 2012.07.04 09:02:00 -
[384] - Quote
What the goons did was not an exploit in the truest sense of the word and while the outcome of this "event " could have been much worse it wasn't. Those people who think things can't be traced forward into other accounts are dead wrong or are Blizzard QC employees. All you have to do is go back to a set point in time look at the character snapshot and then follow the activity log forward or if you want quick and dirty you can just say hey this was your ISK balance, LP totals, and inventory at the point that the "event" began and restore the inventory to the snapshot value and the LP & ISK totals to 90% or so of their value. That would be an easy but maybe not the most fair way to punish the offenders Goons or other. Hey but if you want to have real fun report the RMT folks to the taxing authorities in their home countries, the bulk of them are not paying taxes on their profits. Let the governments of the world lend a hand :) Taxmen like small time cheats they can't afford big time lawyers. |
Aemonchichi
Limited Access Guardian Society
34
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Posted - 2012.07.04 16:03:00 -
[385] - Quote
Aemonchichi wrote:ccp sreegs can u explain why ccp in this situation decided not to punish the exploiters ?
my question is still standing , CCP said in the dev blog it was a exploit and phuuleeeeze refrain from answering questions not asked in your direction goons and affiliates 8)
it is clear that under this circumstances your opinions are biased
the point was well judged that it was an exploit, ccp decides so and takes actions that make sense like revoking all ill gotten gains, but no punishment ? for a exploit ? i wanna hear from ccp sreegs why this absolutley inconclusive action was taken ( no to mention a snitch plex award, lol , as if someone could snitch himself)
all this looks a bit awkwardly constructed and not logically acted from step to step , the motivations from ccp are in question here
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Belonger
Free Borg Syndicate Mostly AFK
0
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Posted - 2012.07.04 20:30:00 -
[386] - Quote
if that graph is CORRECT there were more then 1 B LP per day produced. Thoose 5 ppl claim they earn only 5 Trilions on it so where is the rest of the lp/iskies?
From the graph it looks like 5 trilions per day not in 2 weeks. |
Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
240
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Posted - 2012.07.04 22:56:00 -
[387] - Quote
Aemonchichi wrote:Aemonchichi wrote:ccp sreegs can u explain why ccp in this situation decided not to punish the exploiters ? my question is still standing , CCP said in the dev blog it was a exploit and phuuleeeeze refrain from answering questions not asked in your direction goons and affiliates 8) it is clear that under this circumstances your opinions are biased the point was well judged that it was an exploit, ccp decides so and takes actions that make sense like revoking all ill gotten gains, but no punishment ? for a exploit ? i wanna hear from ccp sreegs why this absolutley inconclusive action was taken ( no to mention a snitch plex award, lol , as if someone could snitch himself) all this looks a bit awkwardly constructed and not logically acted from step to step , the motivations from ccp are in question here
Read the thread and dev blog and you'll find that your question has already been answered. Sorry you didn't like the answer. -RubyPorto
IB4TS |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
549
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 02:49:00 -
[388] - Quote
Belonger wrote:if that graph is CORRECT there were more then 1 B LP per day produced. Thoose 5 ppl claim they earn only 5 Trilions on it so where is the rest of the lp/iskies?
From the graph it looks like 5 trilions per day not in 2 weeks.
SO i have a question did u catched other ppl usign that exploit? or did the CCP decide they are on marigin bcs they got less then soem amount of isks from it?
Uh...you realize that the graph is unlabeled, so you have no idea what the amounts on it are, right? And that we did this over several days, not just on one day, right? And that the 5 trillion was isk, not LP, right? . |
Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
240
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 04:10:00 -
[389] - Quote
corestwo wrote:Belonger wrote:if that graph is CORRECT there were more then 1 B LP per day produced. Thoose 5 ppl claim they earn only 5 Trilions on it so where is the rest of the lp/iskies?
From the graph it looks like 5 trilions per day not in 2 weeks.
SO i have a question did u catched other ppl usign that exploit? or did the CCP decide they are on marigin bcs they got less then soem amount of isks from it? Uh...you realize that the graph is unlabeled, so you have no idea what the amounts on it are, right? And that we did this over several days, not just on one day, right? And that the 5 trillion was isk, not LP, right?
Are you trying to teach a random GoonHaterGäó literacy? Or, crazier yet, reading comprehension?
Actually, I think you could force people to actually read if all Goonswarm personnel hit their Corp/Alliance tags. People would have to click something and read something before they attacked it for being posted by a Goon.*
*Though, I do seem to remember a thread where an OP claimed Goon conspiracy before any Goon had posted, so I guess I'm wrong... -RubyPorto
IB4TS |
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2012.07.05 05:36:00 -
[390] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Aemonchichi wrote:Aemonchichi wrote:ccp sreegs can u explain why ccp in this situation decided not to punish the exploiters ? my question is still standing , CCP said in the dev blog it was a exploit and phuuleeeeze refrain from answering questions not asked in your direction goons and affiliates 8) it is clear that under this circumstances your opinions are biased the point was well judged that it was an exploit, ccp decides so and takes actions that make sense like revoking all ill gotten gains, but no punishment ? for a exploit ? i wanna hear from ccp sreegs why this absolutley inconclusive action was taken ( no to mention a snitch plex award, lol , as if someone could snitch himself) all this looks a bit awkwardly constructed and not logically acted from step to step , the motivations from ccp are in question here Read the thread and dev blog and you'll find that your question has already been answered. Sorry you didn't like the answer.
Don't bother - the hatred induced blindness is too strong in this one.
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