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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 36 post(s) |
Dramaticus
Goonswarm Federation
166
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 17:50:00 -
[121] - Quote
Aryth wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Mme Pinkerton wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:What we said was that this could be done in such a way that lead to an artificial disparity (albeit one created by our own systems) between the real value of an item and the number we were calculating value based upon to magically die over and over again to gain another currency. Inquiring minds want to know how you determine the "real value" of an item. It's in the blog. There's the current cost you pay for an item and there's the rolling average of the item's value. LP gain was tied to the long term average cost which is calculated by us. By causing disparity in the two values, whether on purpose or if it happens naturally, you can be in a position where you can print LP (corrected :)) by just buying things and shooting yourself. The destruction of items to harvest LP is the main issue here. The manipulation of the average cost in and of itself is not at this point in time considered problematic. It's merely how much that can be used to amplify the damage caused by the destruction. I hope when you guys do the redesign, using it as a matter convertor is still possible. I felt it was the most interesting part of this mechanic in the long run. It will provide some creative ways to run manips on item prices as well as create artificial scarcity for items if you are willing to put ISK behind it. If you think permageddon is bad, wait until you see what we can do with a matter converter.
This was unironically a better market correction tool than anything else CCP has tried. |
Pipa Porto
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
49
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 17:52:00 -
[122] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote: Yeah and what I'm trying to get at is that I didn't compare how we felt with handling this decision based on past decisions others might have made. We looked at the situation and did what we felt was the right thing for the game as a whole, so I'm not really prepared to discuss x vs. y because we didn't ever discuss it internally and these decisions aren't made solo.
Fair enough. I hope you're having a good long conversation about how to fix Forex markets to keep them from being manipulated.
It would be spectacular to see CCP be the first Gaming company win the Nobel Prize for Economics. -RubyPorto
IB4TS |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3771
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 17:55:00 -
[123] - Quote
By the way, if I were you I might fix the ibis price (141k last I checked). I can't think of a way to abuse it but given it's free, once someone does boy will it be hilarious. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
464
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 17:57:00 -
[124] - Quote
Dramaticus wrote:Aryth wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Mme Pinkerton wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:What we said was that this could be done in such a way that lead to an artificial disparity (albeit one created by our own systems) between the real value of an item and the number we were calculating value based upon to magically die over and over again to gain another currency. Inquiring minds want to know how you determine the "real value" of an item. It's in the blog. There's the current cost you pay for an item and there's the rolling average of the item's value. LP gain was tied to the long term average cost which is calculated by us. By causing disparity in the two values, whether on purpose or if it happens naturally, you can be in a position where you can print LP (corrected :)) by just buying things and shooting yourself. The destruction of items to harvest LP is the main issue here. The manipulation of the average cost in and of itself is not at this point in time considered problematic. It's merely how much that can be used to amplify the damage caused by the destruction. I hope when you guys do the redesign, using it as a matter convertor is still possible. I felt it was the most interesting part of this mechanic in the long run. It will provide some creative ways to run manips on item prices as well as create artificial scarcity for items if you are willing to put ISK behind it. If you think permageddon is bad, wait until you see what we can do with a matter converter. This was unironically a better market correction tool than anything else CCP has tried.
The mechanic can be used for good. You can fix imbalances in the market that have existed for years from past oversights using this to cash into LP. It wouldn't be profitable, but it would provide liqudity and the ability for players to fix/manip markets if they are willing to take huge risks and capital hits. I am not saying this as a theoretical. I already have a plan and item in mind.
It would be a pretty cool mechanic going foward (after it's fixed of course) if it could still be used in this way. It opens up a lot of really fun market possbilities. |
Mme Pinkerton
71
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 17:57:00 -
[125] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Mme Pinkerton wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:What we said was that this could be done in such a way that lead to an artificial disparity (albeit one created by our own systems) between the real value of an item and the number we were calculating value based upon to magically die over and over again to gain another currency. Inquiring minds want to know how you determine the "real value" of an item. It's in the blog. There's the current cost you pay for an item and there's the rolling average of the item's value. You are already mixing concepts of value.
You really want to tell me that the cost at which you have acquired an item determines its "real" value but in the same breath you tell me that the rolling average of past successful trades is a measure of value. What if I propose that the highest buy order is the true measure of value as that's the only dependable measure of how much other people value this item right now?
Anyways, I think your answer is a weak cop-out (in the best case a sign of your own confusion).
I think you should re-examine if you truly think that value is determined by any price because I suspect that you don't (because no matter which price you choose, it can always be manipulated - and you seem to assume that a "real value" which cannot be manipulated exists).
So tell me about your idea of market-independent value and I will probably tear it to pieces - after all there are good reasons for basically everyone (except for some neo-Marxists) giving up on (objective) value as a concept that exists independent of price at some point in the early 20th century. An IPO guide (David H'Levi) | Towards a Positive Argument For Investing (RAW23) | Freighter Operations 101 (Kazuo Ishiguro) | Dominion market analysis (Akita T)
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Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
464
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 17:59:00 -
[126] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote: Yeah and what I'm trying to get at is that I didn't compare how we felt with handling this decision based on past decisions others might have made. We looked at the situation and did what we felt was the right thing for the game as a whole, so I'm not really prepared to discuss x vs. y because we didn't ever discuss it internally and these decisions aren't made solo.
Fair enough. I hope you're having a good long conversation about how to fix Forex markets to keep them from being manipulated. It would be spectacular to see CCP be the first Gaming company win the Nobel Prize for Economics.
I pitched a possible solution. We spent days theorycrafting a fix that preserves the system without making it gameable to a degree you are profiting on the conversion. You might still profit on the market manip, but not the conversion itself. This might be an acceptable solution to CCP, who knows. I hope they don't gut it though. |
Haifisch Zahne
HZ Corp
68
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 18:01:00 -
[127] - Quote
I see only two reasons given by CCP Sreegs, speaking for CCP, why this "event" (Goon 4x4? GoonGate? Goon FW Crisis 2012?) has been classified as an exploit:
1) "Because of the volumes and disparity involved we've had to take action to fix this particular system."
2) "Because this was essentially a system where you could print LP, even if ISK was provided as an input, it is classified as an exploit."
But, 1) only speaks to the surprising SUCCESS of the Goons. It does not speak to it being an exploit. For example, that Bill Gates (and Microsoft) have made a giganormous fortune is not reason to say Microsoft Windows is an "exploit". (It is for other reasons.)
And, 2) contains an enormous IF clause: "even if ISK was provided as an input". The Goons did not buy an LP printing press, with ISK. This was not the "input" of ISK. They gamed the system, and it required purchases necessarily to function. Had they blown up stuff "from thin air", then, yes, they would have successfully printed LP.
CCP needs to explain WHY this classifies as an exploit, rather than an enormously successful method of multiplying an investment.
CCP has not done this. |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
3953
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 18:01:00 -
[128] - Quote
ooo
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Mechaet
Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation
36
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 18:02:00 -
[129] - Quote
Haifisch Zahne wrote:I see only two reasons given by CCP Sreegs, speaking for CCP, why this "event" (Goon 4x4? GoonGate? Goon FW Crisis 2012?) has been classified as an exploit:
1) "Because of the volumes and disparity involved we've had to take action to fix this particular system."
2) "Because this was essentially a system where you could print LP, even if ISK was provided as an input, it is classified as an exploit."
But, 1) only speaks to the surprising SUCCESS of the Goons. It does not speak to it being an exploit. For example, that Bill Gates (and Microsoft) have made a giganormous fortune is not reason to say Microsoft Windows is an "exploit". (It is for other reasons.)
And, 2) contains an enormous IF clause: "even if ISK was provided as an input". The Goons did not buy an LP printing press, with ISK. This was not the "input" of ISK. They gamed the system, and it required purchases necessarily to function. Had they blown up stuff "from thin air", then, yes, they would have successfully printed LP.
CCP needs to explain WHY this classifies as an exploit, rather than an enormously successful method of multiplying an investment.
CCP has not done this. And they never will. |
Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
312
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 18:09:00 -
[130] - Quote
So would manipulating the price of a ship to receive large insurance payouts also be considered an exploit? Ex/ Atrons for 200m. |
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
772
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 18:10:00 -
[131] - Quote
Haifisch Zahne wrote:I see only two reasons given by CCP Sreegs, speaking for CCP, why this "event" (Goon 4x4? GoonGate? Goon FW Crisis 2012?) has been classified as an exploit:
1) "Because of the volumes and disparity involved we've had to take action to fix this particular system."
2) "Because this was essentially a system where you could print LP, even if ISK was provided as an input, it is classified as an exploit."
But, 1) only speaks to the surprising SUCCESS of the Goons. It does not speak to it being an exploit. For example, that Bill Gates (and Microsoft) have made a giganormous fortune is not reason to say Microsoft Windows is an "exploit". (It is for other reasons.)
And, 2) contains an enormous IF clause: "even if ISK was provided as an input". The Goons did not buy an LP printing press, with ISK. This was not the "input" of ISK. They gamed the system, and it required purchases necessarily to function. Had they blown up stuff "from thin air", then, yes, they would have successfully printed LP.
CCP needs to explain WHY this classifies as an exploit, rather than an enormously successful method of multiplying an investment.
CCP has not done this.
To those who have to ask, no answer will suffice. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
517
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 18:13:00 -
[132] - Quote
Vaal Erit wrote:So would manipulating the price of a ship to receive large insurance payouts also be considered an exploit? Ex/ Atrons for 200m. Insurance doesn't work that way.
e: To clarify, insurance prices are (I believe) based on mineral prices, probably in a fairly similar way as CCP arrives at the estimated price ingame. However, they update extremely slowly. The insurance payouts you're seeing now are based on mineral prices several months ago, which is why the insurance payout seems so low. . |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1206
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 18:22:00 -
[133] - Quote
Damion Rayne wrote:Every single one of you dirtbags needs a big giant BAN. Every..single..one. If you're Goonswarm, your only desire is to see people quit playing Eve, and basically destroy it. You are a threat and you should be treated as one. Anyone wearing the Goonswarm tags should be permanently banned from Eve Online.
lol a rogue goon |
Illectroculus Defined
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
61
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 18:26:00 -
[134] - Quote
Damion Rayne wrote:
I've said it before and I'll say it again,
Every single one of you dirtbags needs a big giant BAN. Every..single..one. If you're Goonswarm, your only desire is to see people quit playing Eve, and basically destroy it. You are a threat and you should be treated as one. Anyone wearing the Goonswarm tags should be permanently banned from Eve Online.
Does that mean you're not interested in that video project collaboration any more? |
Alain Kinsella
120
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 18:36:00 -
[135] - Quote
Liam Mirren wrote:Goon tears best tears. Not seeing any yet, really. I probably have one of the longest-running grudges with them (their war inSL), and I have to admit this is ending on a decent note.
Slightly torn though, was expecting something different, but I like the proposed solution (so far) even better. Thanks Screegs, and good luck sorting the long-term problem.
I may have come here from Myst Online, but that does not make me any less bloodthirsty than the average Eve player.
Just more subtle.
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Haifisch Zahne
HZ Corp
68
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 18:36:00 -
[136] - Quote
Funny, I said this, and I got the "tinfoil hat" from you Goons.
Querns wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:What is the value of LP by itself? It's wholly dependent on the market. Earning LP doesn't actually generate you any money. Other players have to pay you in order for you to convert the currency to a meaningful state, unless you deal in a barter economy of skillbooks and starbase charters. I won't disagree that generating hilarious amounts of LP is probably not right, but classifying it as "printing money" is just patently false. Consider the (unlikely) situation in which CCP either hadn't noticed or didn't care about the FW forex actions. We would have generated infinite LP* (*note: probably no more than 2.1b at a time due to laffeaux signed 32-bit integer, and also it's not truly infinite because even the implants we manipulated had an isk cost to acquire, but that's just semantics.) Assuming that we were terrible at the game and were unable to show restraint in cashing out LP, prices for LP items would have steadily approached the isk cost of the items as LP value went to zero. At that point, you could hardly consider printing infinite LP to be "printing money" -- it's worthless!
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Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens
113
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 18:36:00 -
[137] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Zagdul wrote:Shouldn't they also retain LP equivalent to 2 weeks worth of 'normal' game play?
They were playing, they did let you know and they did participate in Faction Warfare. I really don't want to discuss actions against individual players any more than was detailed in the blog for informational purposes. Sorry duder.
Sreegs i aplogize ahead for this one man. I know you cannot discuss what disciplinary actions are done to player XYZ nd so on but many will be disappointed if there are no Bannings. The group knew; they got their Egg heads together played with the formula and went hey you know you can do this and so a group went and did exactly how the egg heads said and exploited it and then said something about it.
they did toss you under the bus not once but multiple times over this issue alone. A lot of folks feel they should be banned. if it was any other group they would have been banned in a blink of an eye and then work on the investigation. Many of us have talked about this and the general concensus is that your doing the father thing Shaking the finger at them and speaking in a stern voice "Do not do that again or else" Many have seen this and many want what the rules say to happen to them.
Sorry Sreegs had to say my peice on this and hope you do the right thing.
Peace |
Haifisch Zahne
HZ Corp
68
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 18:38:00 -
[138] - Quote
Sad.
Vincent Athena wrote:Haifisch Zahne wrote:I see only two reasons given by CCP Sreegs, speaking for CCP, why this "event" (Goon 4x4? GoonGate? Goon FW Crisis 2012?) has been classified as an exploit:
1) "Because of the volumes and disparity involved we've had to take action to fix this particular system."
2) "Because this was essentially a system where you could print LP, even if ISK was provided as an input, it is classified as an exploit."
But, 1) only speaks to the surprising SUCCESS of the Goons. It does not speak to it being an exploit. For example, that Bill Gates (and Microsoft) have made a giganormous fortune is not reason to say Microsoft Windows is an "exploit". (It is for other reasons.)
And, 2) contains an enormous IF clause: "even if ISK was provided as an input". The Goons did not buy an LP printing press, with ISK. This was not the "input" of ISK. They gamed the system, and it required purchases necessarily to function. Had they blown up stuff "from thin air", then, yes, they would have successfully printed LP.
CCP needs to explain WHY this classifies as an exploit, rather than an enormously successful method of multiplying an investment.
CCP has not done this. To those who have to ask, no answer will suffice.
|
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
520
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 18:40:00 -
[139] - Quote
Haifisch Zahne wrote:Funny, I said this, and I got the "tinfoil hat" from you Goons. Querns wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:What is the value of LP by itself? It's wholly dependent on the market. Earning LP doesn't actually generate you any money. Other players have to pay you in order for you to convert the currency to a meaningful state, unless you deal in a barter economy of skillbooks and starbase charters. I won't disagree that generating hilarious amounts of LP is probably not right, but classifying it as "printing money" is just patently false. Consider the (unlikely) situation in which CCP either hadn't noticed or didn't care about the FW forex actions. We would have generated infinite LP* (*note: probably no more than 2.1b at a time due to laffeaux signed 32-bit integer, and also it's not truly infinite because even the implants we manipulated had an isk cost to acquire, but that's just semantics.) Assuming that we were terrible at the game and were unable to show restraint in cashing out LP, prices for LP items would have steadily approached the isk cost of the items as LP value went to zero. At that point, you could hardly consider printing infinite LP to be "printing money" -- it's worthless!
That's not really "tinfoil". Everything from the LP store ultimately has an isk cost, and it is thus theoretically possible to drive it all down to the point where it is no longer profitable. Note that this already happens in certain circumstances - because FW pilots pay twice normal at tier 2, or 4x normal at tier 1 ("normal" is at tier 3 and is equal to what regular mission runners pay), implants are actually a negative isk/LP value at those levels. You lose money buying them, a considerable amount of it, in fact. . |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
465
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 18:42:00 -
[140] - Quote
Ziranda Hakuli wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Zagdul wrote:Shouldn't they also retain LP equivalent to 2 weeks worth of 'normal' game play?
They were playing, they did let you know and they did participate in Faction Warfare. I really don't want to discuss actions against individual players any more than was detailed in the blog for informational purposes. Sorry duder. Sreegs i aplogize ahead for this one man. I know you cannot discuss what disciplinary actions are done to player XYZ nd so on but many will be disappointed if there are no Bannings. The group knew; they got their Egg heads together played with the formula and went hey you know you can do this and so a group went and did exactly how the egg heads said and exploited it and then said something about it. they did toss you under the bus not once but multiple times over this issue alone. A lot of folks feel they should be banned. if it was any other group they would have been banned in a blink of an eye and then work on the investigation. Many of us have talked about this and the general concensus is that your doing the father thing Shaking the finger at them and speaking in a stern voice "Do not do that again or else" Many have seen this and many want what the rules say to happen to them. Sorry Sreegs had to say my peice on this and hope you do the right thing. Peace
It appears neither of us gets the ending we wanted then. |
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corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
520
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 18:43:00 -
[141] - Quote
Ziranda Hakuli wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Zagdul wrote:Shouldn't they also retain LP equivalent to 2 weeks worth of 'normal' game play?
They were playing, they did let you know and they did participate in Faction Warfare. I really don't want to discuss actions against individual players any more than was detailed in the blog for informational purposes. Sorry duder. Sreegs i aplogize ahead for this one man. I know you cannot discuss what disciplinary actions are done to player XYZ nd so on but many will be disappointed if there are no Bannings. The group knew; they got their Egg heads together played with the formula and went hey you know you can do this and so a group went and did exactly how the egg heads said and exploited it and then said something about it. they did toss you under the bus not once but multiple times over this issue alone. A lot of folks feel they should be banned. if it was any other group they would have been banned in a blink of an eye and then work on the investigation. Many of us have talked about this and the general concensus is that your doing the father thing Shaking the finger at them and speaking in a stern voice "Do not do that again or else" Many have seen this and many want what the rules say to happen to them. Sorry Sreegs had to say my peice on this and hope you do the right thing. Peace You get a cookie for being the first "CCP=goons" poster in the thread. . |
Dramaticus
Goonswarm Federation
168
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 18:44:00 -
[142] - Quote
Sreegs if the CCP Dev we deserve |
None ofthe Above
282
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 18:48:00 -
[143] - Quote
Mechaet wrote:Haifisch Zahne wrote:I see only two reasons given by CCP Sreegs, speaking for CCP, why this "event" (Goon 4x4? GoonGate? Goon FW Crisis 2012?) has been classified as an exploit:
1) "Because of the volumes and disparity involved we've had to take action to fix this particular system."
2) "Because this was essentially a system where you could print LP, even if ISK was provided as an input, it is classified as an exploit."
But, 1) only speaks to the surprising SUCCESS of the Goons. It does not speak to it being an exploit. For example, that Bill Gates (and Microsoft) have made a giganormous fortune is not reason to say Microsoft Windows is an "exploit". (It is for other reasons.)
And, 2) contains an enormous IF clause: "even if ISK was provided as an input". The Goons did not buy an LP printing press, with ISK. This was not the "input" of ISK. They gamed the system, and it required purchases necessarily to function. Had they blown up stuff "from thin air", then, yes, they would have successfully printed LP.
CCP needs to explain WHY this classifies as an exploit, rather than an enormously successful method of multiplying an investment.
CCP has not done this. And they never will.
Its been explained over and over again and its doubtful that saying it one more time would influence those who would seem to lack one or more of: the patience to read it, will to accept it, or the capacity to understand it.
Perhaps it would suffice for you that those most effected are willing to accept the ruling?
Honestly I think most folk think they got off a little light.
|
Peter Tjordenskiold
19
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 18:51:00 -
[144] - Quote
An exploit is an error in the implementation of a mechanic. But this wasn't the case.
When CCP is classifiy using mechanics for the own advantage as exploit, this is going bad for the sandbox principle. We are evil, harsh and dark in our attitudes. When CCP wishes a game for good guys in pink socks announce it, but don't think of us, we are willing customers paying for a nice game. |
Jonah Gravenstein
544
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 18:54:00 -
[145] - Quote
It'd be interesting to see a Devblog by CCP Dr.EyjoG on what he makes of it, got to be an economists dream/mightmare to see things like that pulled off. War hasn't been fought this badly since Olaf the Hairy, High Chief of all the Vikings, accidentally ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside. |
Sephira Galamore
Nemesis Holdings Corp Luna Sanguinem
23
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 18:55:00 -
[146] - Quote
I just had an idea...
Currently (or well, before the fix) the prices was a rolling average across all transactions of the whole cluster. How about we give transaction a different weight, depending on, for example: - The less a single individual player has traded an item within the last day, the higher a transaction is weight - The more individual players have been involved in trade at the system/station of the transaction within the last hour/day, the higher its weight
I discourage setting it based on current trade hubs / main regions, as that would interfere with the player-driven aspect of the forming of these hubs and the market in general. On the other hand, dynamically defining it on amount of items traded or isk exchanged would make it highly manipulable by few with huge capital.
-> Hence above idea. There may be many goons, but not enough to outtrade us "pubbies" without creating an actual and valid market.
Aryth, corestwo or someone else with deeper insight.. am I making sense?^^ |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1917
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 19:01:00 -
[147] - Quote
Haifisch Zahne wrote:I see only two reasons given by CCP Sreegs, speaking for CCP, why this "event" (Goon 4x4? GoonGate? Goon FW Crisis 2012?) has been classified as an exploit:
1) "Because of the volumes and disparity involved we've had to take action to fix this particular system."
2) "Because this was essentially a system where you could print LP, even if ISK was provided as an input, it is classified as an exploit."
But, 1) only speaks to the surprising SUCCESS of the Goons. It does not speak to it being an exploit. For example, that Bill Gates (and Microsoft) have made a giganormous fortune is not reason to say Microsoft Windows is an "exploit". (It is for other reasons.)
And, 2) contains an enormous IF clause: "even if ISK was provided as an input". The Goons did not buy an LP printing press, with ISK. This was not the "input" of ISK. They gamed the system, and it required purchases necessarily to function. Had they blown up stuff "from thin air", then, yes, they would have successfully printed LP.
CCP needs to explain WHY this classifies as an exploit, rather than an enormously successful method of multiplying an investment.
CCP has not done this.
We classified it as an exploit and gave the explanation. That you were not satisfied with that explanation is unfortunate but it's the only one we're giving. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
254
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 19:02:00 -
[148] - Quote
So much for your sandbox.
CCP designed and published that which was live on TQ. Live with it.
The "rest of us" have had to live with the Tech imbalance for ~30 months now, after all. 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284 Characters 284286 |
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CCP Sreegs
C C P C C P Alliance
1917
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 19:03:00 -
[149] - Quote
Ziranda Hakuli wrote:CCP Sreegs wrote:Zagdul wrote:Shouldn't they also retain LP equivalent to 2 weeks worth of 'normal' game play?
They were playing, they did let you know and they did participate in Faction Warfare. I really don't want to discuss actions against individual players any more than was detailed in the blog for informational purposes. Sorry duder. Sreegs i aplogize ahead for this one man. I know you cannot discuss what disciplinary actions are done to player XYZ nd so on but many will be disappointed if there are no Bannings. The group knew; they got their Egg heads together played with the formula and went hey you know you can do this and so a group went and did exactly how the egg heads said and exploited it and then said something about it. they did toss you under the bus not once but multiple times over this issue alone. A lot of folks feel they should be banned. if it was any other group they would have been banned in a blink of an eye and then work on the investigation. Many of us have talked about this and the general concensus is that your doing the father thing Shaking the finger at them and speaking in a stern voice "Do not do that again or else" Many have seen this and many want what the rules say to happen to them. Sorry Sreegs had to say my peice on this and hope you do the right thing. Peace
We feel we did the right thing and it's unfortunate that we perhaps disagree in the severity of the response but unfortunately that's going to happen every time we make any decision. "Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012 |
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Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
465
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 19:04:00 -
[150] - Quote
Sephira Galamore wrote:I just had an idea...
Currently (or well, before the fix) the average prices were defined by a rolling average across all transactions of the whole cluster.
How about we give transactions a different weight, depending on, for example: - The less a single individual player has traded an item within the last day, the higher a transaction containing this item is weight or: - The more individual players have been involved in trade at the system/station of the transaction within the last hour/day, the higher its weight
I discourage setting it based on current trade hubs / main regions, as that would interfere with the player-driven aspect of the forming of these hubs and the market in general. On the other hand, dynamically defining it on amount of items traded or isk exchanged would make it highly manipulable by few with huge capital.
-> Hence above idea. There may be many goons (or members of any given large block), but not enough to outtrade us "pubbies" without creating an actual and valid market.
Aryth, corestwo or someone else with deeper insight.. am I making sense?^^
Yes, I see where you are going with it, but it still puts too much power into an small groups hands. Alts are easy to farm, we used 5 regions in our mani as is, 20 would not have been a big deal. Mass farming and creating "hubs" would not have been a big deal. CCP was already using EVE wide values, not a specific region.
The trick is, many items in EVE have no volume. It only takes manipulating one item in this scenerio.
The fix we proposed used a commodity group concept. So that CCP doesn't do a 90 day average of an individual units price, but instead of an entire group averaged together. You have to get it right, but say, DM-801 would be averaged with all other 1% implants.
The goal being you make it so hard to manipulate the price, the trader is having to move dozens of markets at once. Which isn't practical in EVE on this scale. Not with the multipliers required to do this. |
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